Chapter 4 | Witness or Defendant

Summary

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Bone Valley: Earwitness – Chapter 4 | Witness or Defendant

Podcast: Bone Valley (Season 4 – Earwitness)
Host: Beth Shelburne (with reporter Mara McNamara)
Release Date: February 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Bone Valley: Earwitness, “Witness or Defendant,” dives into the high-pressure tactics used by law enforcement in the investigation of Deputy William G. Hardy’s 1995 murder. The focus is on how investigators leveraged threats of capital charges to extract desired testimony—ultimately shaping who was identified as a witness versus a defendant. Through interviews and previously unheard investigative files, host Beth Shelburne explores the consequences of these tactics for several young Black Alabamians, the reliability of the prosecution's case, and overlooked evidence that undermined the State’s theory. The episode grapples with the human cost of coercive prosecutions and the deep fallibilities in the investigation that put Toforest Johnson on death row.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. "Witness or Defendant": The State’s Pressure Tactic

• The ultimatum: Detectives repeatedly told suspects and potential witnesses, “You can either be a witness or a defendant. It’s your choice.” (11:47)

• Case of Ardragas Ford:

  • Ford, a wheelchair user, was initially brought in as a witness but was held for nine hours and threatened with capital murder charges unless he implicated Toforest Johnson.
  • Quote:
    • Ardragas: “They want me to lie. ... I wasn’t there and I’ve got a dozen or more alibi witnesses that will testify to that. ... I’m not going to lie for anybody.” (06:53)
  • Ford refuses to implicate Toforest, despite the promise of immunity, and is charged with capital murder.

• Lawyer Richard Jaffe:

  • Shares deep regret for allowing Ford’s questioning and highlights the gravity of threatening defendants with the death penalty to produce witnesses.
  • Quote (Jaffe): “Everybody flips sadly enough to save themselves. ... [But Ford] said, No way. Not gonna lie.” (08:10)

2. The Impact on Other Young Black Suspects

• Latonya Henderson’s Ordeal:

  • 16-year-old questioned alone, forced to choose between being a “witness or a defendant;” she maintains she knows nothing.
  • Despite this, she's charged (hindering prosecution, a felony) and spends five months in adult jail.
  • Quote:
    • Detective Richardson: "Some people are gonna be witnesses. Some are gonna be defendants. Defendants going to jail." (12:49)
    • Latonya: “Defendant is someone that's charged with the crime? ... No, I don't want me to be a defendant. No.” (13:44)
  • Later accounts describe how the process traumatized Latonya and destroyed friendships.

• Police Tactics and Critique:

  • Beth reflects on how both Latonya (truth-teller who is jailed) and Yolanda Chambers (star witness subject to repeated pressure and ever-changing testimony) were deeply harmed.

3. The Detective’s Perspective

• Retired Detective Tony Richardson:
  • Freely admits the “witness or defendant” tactic is used as a pressure tool.
  • Quote:
    • “Well, at certain times, you have to put pressure on somebody. That’s just a strategy. That’s just an investigative tool.” (14:54)
  • Later, Richardson says the best advice for a suspect:
    • “The best thing that a person probably can do for themselves that's suspected of a crime is do not talk to the police. Period.” (18:46)
  • This surprising candor from a seasoned detective closes out the segment.

4. The Flaws in the State’s Case & Overlooked Evidence

• Eyewitness Accounts Conflict with Police Theory:

  • Actual hotel guests, Marshall Kelly Cummings (the “Keebler Cookie guy”) and Leon Colvin, both saw a copper/gold 4-door sedan quietly leaving the scene, not the black, loud, two-door Monte Carlo associated with Ardragas Ford.
  • The Monte Carlo’s driver door didn’t open—contradicting witnesses who saw someone get in on the driver’s side.
  • Quotes:
    • “When I looked up, they’re closing...which door? The driver's side.” (22:56)
    • “That door, the driver door won’t open at all.” (26:17)
  • Despite these discrepancies, detectives pursued the suspects that fit their preferred narrative.

• Detective’s Familial Tie:

  • Richardson interrogates his own cousin, Leon Colvin, treating him as a possible defendant based on another pressured witness’s identification. Colvin is charged with hindering prosecution despite only being an eyewitness.
  • Colvin: “I ain’t did none of this here.” (29:45)

• Potentially Key Evidence Not Followed:

  • Hotel worker Jerry McDaniel witnessed Hardy arguing with a group of young men just prior to the murder and saw a group outside later—but police never identified these individuals or pursued the lead.

5. Ignored Alibis and Defensive Policing

• Alibi witnesses:

  • Multiple friends confirm Toforest Johnson and Ardragas Ford were at “T’s Place,” a club, during the murder.
  • Two women (“Mama Cat” and “Quesi”) gave statements to Detective Richardson confirming their presence at the club.
  • Decades later, Richardson can’t recall these witnesses or why their testimony wasn’t believed.
  • Quote:
    • Beth: “There were alibi witnesses on the record that told y’all I saw them at T’s place. ... Whatever went into not believing them is not in any files that we've been able to access.” (47:50)
    • Richardson: "Well, since I don't know who this witness was, I can't remember them. ... Probably not." (48:07)

• Exclusion of Alternate Theories and Motives:

  • Eight tips suggested detectives look into Hardy’s personal life for potential motives, but Richardson says they dismissed any line of inquiry not involving an “interrupted drug deal”—the working police theory.
  • Quote:
    • “If he had been at home in his pajamas, shot and killed in bed, we would have looked at him. Because that's what you do.” (37:46)

6. The Shifting Star Witness and Recantation

• Yolanda Chambers’ Changing Testimony:
  • Chambers’ statements form the backbone of the case, but are inconsistent and eventually recanted.
  • After being key to charging four young men, Yolanda switches her testimony, ultimately saying the original suspects had nothing to do with the murder.
  • Charges against two suspects dropped for credible alibis, but not for Toforest and Ardragas.

7. “Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don’t”

• Both witness and defendant statuses proved ruinous—Yolanda exploited and endangered, Latonya traumatized from jail time.
• The episode highlights that, under pressure, truth-telling is punished and coerced testimony is rewarded, all within a rush to secure a conviction for a law enforcement victim.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Richard Jaffe on being deceived by police:
  • “[Barber] said, 'He can either be a witness or a defendant. ... Witness or defendant, it’s his choice.’” (05:27)
  • “I felt a little inept and a little foolish as well as a little deceived…” (06:10)
• Ardragas Ford’s refusal:
  • “I would happy to give Taforest up in a heartbeat, except it would be a lie. ... Tell him to take me to jail.” (07:28, 08:14)
• Detective Tony Richardson’s candor:
  • “That’s just a strategy, that's just an investigative tool.” (14:54)
  • “The best thing that a person probably can do for themselves that’s suspected of a crime is do not talk to the police. Period.” (18:46)
• Eyewitness Kelly Cummings describing the car:
  • “I saw a person...closing...the driver's side [door]. ... A copper colored or light brown car with a vinyl top...drove away with the headlights off.” (22:51–23:11)
• Latonya Henderson’s confusion and fear:
  • “Defendant is someone that's charged with the crime? ... No, I don't want me to be a defendant.” (13:44)
• Detectives' rationale for not pursuing alternate leads:
  • “Because Deputy Hardy was a police officer and was killed in uniform...if he had been at home in his pajamas, shot and killed in bed, we would have looked at him. Because that's what you do.” (37:46)

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Segment Timestamps (Approximate)

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------| | 01:31 | Recap of previous episode | | 03:04 | Police bring in Ardragas Ford (w/ lawyer) | | 05:27 | “Witness or Defendant” tactic explained | | 06:48 | Ford is offered immunity to implicate Toforest | | 08:45 | Four young Black men charged | | 12:08 | Pressure on 16-year-old Latonya | | 16:15 | Latonya’s jailing and aftermath | | 21:24 | Discrepancies in car eyewitness testimony | | 32:18 | Jerry McDaniel’s lost lead | | 35:51 | Police ignore tips into Hardy’s personal life | | 42:04 | Overlooked alibi witnesses | | 46:33 | Confirmation of alibis by “Mama Cat” and “Quesi” | | 47:50 | Detective Richardson’s lack of recall/belief | | 50:19 | Yolanda Chambers recants | | 51:03 | New “star witness” teased for next episode |

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Tone & Language

• Direct, emotional, and investigative. Shelburne offers patient, clear explanations, but centers the human harm caused by state actions.
• Matter-of-fact but compassionate. The use of tape and witness commentary showcases trauma, confusion, and resistance.
• Highlights systemic failings—the episode ultimately reads as a critique of a justice system warped by pressure, presumption, and expedience.

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Final Thoughts

“Witness or Defendant” exposes how the criminal justice system’s demand for closure in a slain-officer case led to the weaponization of witness testimony and charges. The episode reveals how law enforcement’s tunnel vision and coercive tactics undermined the truth, destroyed lives, and shored up a failed case against Toforest Johnson. It is both a granular account of a specific investigation and a wider cautionary tale about the dangers of police “strategy” overpowering the facts.

Next episode preview: The focus will shift to a new surprise witness—Bolly Nelson—hinted as the prosecution's new linchpin.

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For more: Visit lavaforgood.com/earwitness or follow Earwitness on social media.

Transcript

[Beth Shelburne]

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[Beth Shelburne]

I believe I got a phone call from someone in the room saying they heard gunshots. Boom. Small caliber gun. It wasn't a big caliber. Boom. About the second time I said it and went, that was a gun. When you got a deputy sheriff killed over here, it's high profile and people are expecting things out here. Tavares Johnson, I remember he was pushing a Dricus Ford in the wheelchair.

[Mara McNamara]

They came together.

[Beth Shelburne]

I had saw Tavares pushing a Drakers in the club. Me and one of my girlfriends, her name is Latonya. Me and her and two. Two guys were supposed to hook up that night. One is 21. They call him Dre. He's in a wheelchair. Not only do you want somebody in custody, the captain is telling the lieutenant we need to get this done. The sheriff is telling the captain we need to get this done. I didn't get it secondhand. I was there. You were there. I was there when it went down.

[Mara McNamara]

So what she saying?

[Beth Shelburne]

She was there and I was there. That's a lie. That's a lie. That's a shame.

[Mara McNamara]

When police come looking for Ardragas Ford, his mom calls Richard Jaffe who had helped them in the past.

[Beth Shelburne]

Ardragas was in a wheelchair, as you know, and his mother brought him over to the lion's den, to the sheriff's department.

[Mara McNamara]

Jaffe's a trial lawyer, and he looks like one, but not in a slick way. He's slender, in a rumpled suit, with gray hair and glasses. The day Ardragas went to the sheriff's office for questioning, Jaffee is just beginning a trial in a different case. But before he goes to court that day, he gets a phone call from the sheriff's office.

[Beth Shelburne]

I was called by Deputy Blanton, and he said, I heard that you were representing Rodriguez Ford. And I went, yes, I was just contacted by the family, but I don't know anything about the case. And he said, well, look, he's just a witness. I mean, he just knows stuff. And I knew Deputy Blanton, and I believed if he had information involving a police shooting, I wanted to help. And our Dragis did, too. And against my best judgment, I allowed our Dragis to be interviewed by him and several other Jefferson county detectives.

[Mara McNamara]

So Ardragas is questioned alone while his attorney, Jaffe, heads to the courthouse.

[Beth Shelburne]

Perhaps around 4:30 or 5, when we broke, I found out that Ardragas was still there. So he'd been there all day, like maybe nine hours. And I was extremely distraught, so I hurried over there. It was just across the street. And when I got into the very large room, it was buzzing with detectives and police officers, and you could feel the tension. It was. It was enormous amount of tension there.

[Mara McNamara]

In the crowd of police officers and detectives, Jaffe notices Jefferson County's district attorney, a man named David Barber. He's in charge of all state prosecutions in Alabama's largest jurisdiction and is working with police in the Deputy Hardy murder investigation. When Jaffe sees Barber, he walks over.

[Beth Shelburne]

To him, and I said, what's going on with our Dragis? And David said, well, we know he was there, and he's not telling us the truth, so we're going to charge him. He can either be a witness or a defendant. I said, well, what are you saying? And he said, just that. Witness or defendant, it's his choice.

[Mara McNamara]

The choice detectives are giving Ardragas, either he gives them information about Hardy's murder, or he'll be charged with a crime.

[Beth Shelburne]

If I had any idea that they thought he was there, I nor any lawyer would allow their client, in any case, especially where a death penalty case, to be interviewed by law enforcement, they just wouldn't allow it. Frankly, I felt a Little inept and a little foolish as well as a little deceived. And I said, well, what can I do to help? And he said, well, go in there and get him to tell the truth. And I said, well, then you're going to have to give him immunity.

[Mara McNamara]

According to Jaffe, David Barber offers Ardragas immunity from prosecution in exchange for naming Taforest as the shooter. Jaffe says Barber handwrites the immunity agreement on a piece of paper and gives it to him.

[Beth Shelburne]

David's word was good with me. And I walked into a little office with where our Dragis was in his wheelchair sitting there, didn't look happy, certainly wasn't happy with me at all. And I said, what's going on? And he said they were screaming at me and they made me tell the story over and over and over again and even tell it backwards. And I said, well, this is an immunity agreement, maybe we should talk about it. And he reads it and he said, so they want me to lie. He said, Look, Mr. Jaffe, I wasn't there and I've got a dozen or more alibi witnesses that will testify to that. I know nothing about it. Zero. I said, okay, well they think that you're not a shooter, but you were there. And they think Tafares is the shooter. And he looked at me and he said, listen, I'm not going to lie for anybody. Tavares and I are close, but we're not that close. He's not family. I would happy to give Tafares up in a heartbeat, except it would be a lie. And I'm not going to lie. That never happens, even on a theft case, even on a possession of marijuana case, even on a hubcap case. Everybody flips sadly enough to save themselves.

[Mara McNamara]

Yeah.

[Beth Shelburne]

He said, no way. Not gonna lie. I said, all right, well they're gonna take you to jail, they're gonna wheel you to jail and they're gonna charge you with capital murder, which is a death penalty offense. And he goes, I wasn't there. Tell him to take me to jail.

[Mara McNamara]

The next day, the Jefferson County Sheriff's office announces formal charges in the murder of Deputy Bill Hardy.

[Beth Shelburne]

Charged with capital murder of a law enforcement officer are 22 year old Torforest Johnson, 21 year old Ardragas Ford, 23 year old Oman Berry and 21 year old Quintess Wilson. They are held without bond.

[Mara McNamara]

All four people charged with capital murder are are young black men. Based on the changing stories of Yolanda Chambers, detectives believe at least six people were in the parking lot behind the hotel when Hardy was shot. Yolanda and Latonya, Taforest and Ardragas. And the two other people Yolanda identified in photos, Omar Berry and Quintess Wilson. The headline in the Birmingham News reads, police Confident they Got Right Men in Deputy Slaying. Sounds like an open and shut investigation. But pull back the curtain. Or in this case, open up the investigative file. And the inner workings tell a different story. Do you hear my madness? Laughter hides my fears. Sorrows deps are endless.

[Beth Shelburne]

In this valley of tears.

[Mara McNamara]

I want to see a.

[Beth Shelburne]

Revelation.

[Mara McNamara]

I want to know who you are.

[Beth Shelburne]

I'm reaching out.

[Mara McNamara]

In desperation to.

[Beth Shelburne]

The one who's holding the stars to the one who's holding the star.

[Mara McNamara]

I'm Beth Shelburn. This is Ear Witness. Chapter four. Witness or defendant? The tactic the State uses with Rodriguez telling him he can either be a witness or a defendant. Detective Tony Richardson repeats it over and over during Deputy Hardy's murder investigation.

[Beth Shelburne]

You are in a position now to be one of two things. Okay? Okay. You can either be a witness or you can be a defendant. You know, you can either be a witness or you can be a defendant. You can only be either a witness or you can be a defendant. Okay? It's your choice. You make it. You tell me what you want to do.

[Mara McNamara]

One of the people Tony Richardson uses this tactic on is Yolanda Chambers friend, latonya Henderson, who was in the car with Taforest, Ardragas and Yolanda the night Deputy Hardy was killed.

[Beth Shelburne]

Latonya, I am working a homicide. Okay? And in working this homicide, people have choices. It's choice whether you want to be a witness or you want to be a defendant.

[Mara McNamara]

Latonya is 16 years old. She's in high school and lives with her mother and brother. And as she's questioned about the night of the murder, she's alone in the room with detectives. No lawyer, no parent present.

[Beth Shelburne]

I'm not saying anything to entice you to say something. You tell me what's the truth and tell me. You tell me that's the truth and I'm gonna take it like that. But I do want you to know that some people are gonna be witnesses. Some are gonna be defendants. Defendants going to jail. Okay.

[Mara McNamara]

After giving latonya this choice, Detective Richardson asks her where she was that night.

[Beth Shelburne]

Were you at near or around that hotel when this officer was shot? No, sir. Okay. And you've never been there before? No, I haven't.

[Mara McNamara]

Never.

[Beth Shelburne]

And you have no independent knowledge of what happened to this officer? No, I haven't.

[Mara McNamara]

Despite being told she's a suspect in a murderer, latonya does not change her story. But she also doesn't seem to understand the rules of the game detectives are playing. She asks Detective Richardson to explain.

[Beth Shelburne]

Ask you a question. Defendant is. Defendant is someone that's charged with the crime? Well, no. No, I don't want me to defend it? No. All right, so you want to be a witness.

[Mara McNamara]

Latonya has to ask what it means to be a defendant, then says she doesn't want to be charged with the crime. At one point, Richardson stops the tape like he's done in Yolanda's interviews, and restarts it after a five minute break.

[Beth Shelburne]

Do you know what a Crown Sterling is? No, I don't. Would you know it if you saw it? No, I have never seen it. I have never been there. Were you in any hotel parking lot that night where shots were fired? No. Okay, this. Sergeant Tony Richardson, Jefferson County Sheriff's Office. The time is 3:50pm this is gonna conclude this interview.

[Mara McNamara]

In a lot of the interviews that you did in this case, you and Sergeant Salter presented a choice. You can be a witness or you can be a defendant. Tell me about presenting that to somebody that you're interviewing. That seems like a lot of pressure to put on someone.

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, at certain times, you have to put pressure on somebody. That's just a. That's just a strategy. That's just an investigative tool. That's. That's nothing. So I look at you and I say, look, you can either be a witness or you can be a defendant. It's up to you. And that's the truth.

[Mara McNamara]

What if the person is neither a witness nor a defendant in the case, though?

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, sometimes you say that trying to determine if they're a witness or a defendant, you know, particularly if you don't know. And if they continue to maintain, I know nothing, at some point I'm gonna say, okay, I got you.

[Mara McNamara]

But for latonya, there was never an okay, I got you from investigators. Even though she explains she doesn't know anything about the crime, detectives follow through with their threat and make her a defendant. One month after Tony Richardson questions latonya, the state charges her with hindering prosecution. In Alabama, that's a felony at 16 years old. Police take Latonya Henderson to adult jail, where she stays for five months.

[Beth Shelburne]

You know, Latonya Henderson, I mean, even if she had been there, you know, even if Yolanda's story was true, what's she a defendant on? You know, what has she done?

[Mara McNamara]

This is Derek Drennan, a lawyer who worked with Richard Jaffe in representing Ardregas Ford.

[Beth Shelburne]

And I don't know, I think they charged her with hindering prosecution, maybe because basically she wasn't telling the lies that Yolanda was telling.

[Mara McNamara]

A few years later, Latonya says that she was hysterical when they took her to jail, desperate to get detectives to believe her. She says that she suffered from stress and lost too much weight. I really wanted to talk to latonya to hear how this experience shaped her. And we tried for months to track her down, knocking on doors, calling possible numbers, combing social media, but we never could connect. I was able to talk to her uncle, Herman Henderson, a pastor in Birmingham. He told me Latonya and Yolanda had been friends since they were babies. But this case ended their friendship. And Latonya was scarred by the entire experience. Her trust in other people eroded. Yolanda Chambers and Latonya Henderson made different choices when faced with threats from police. There's a damned if you do, damned if you don't dynamic and how they were each impacted. Yolanda became a witness for detectives, avoiding jail time during Hardy's murder investigation, but entered a pattern of exploitation that that may have led to her murder. Latonya became a defendant for telling the truth. She didn't have any information to give, and detectives sent her to jail. Both Yolanda and Latonya ended up traumatized and hurt. And as I think through how detectives treated these witnesses and the suspects of Hardy's murder, I keep coming back to this one thing that Tony Richardson said.

[Beth Shelburne]

The best thing that a person probably can do for themselves that's suspected of a crime is do not talk to the police. Period.

[Mara McNamara]

Now, that's really interesting coming from a retired detective, but that's the truth.

[Beth Shelburne]

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[Mara McNamara]

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[Beth Shelburne]

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[Mara McNamara]

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[Beth Shelburne]

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[Beth Shelburne]

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[Mara McNamara]

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[Beth Shelburne]

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[Mara McNamara]

Detectives are moving ahead with the theory of the crime that Yolanda Chambers gives them in her interrogations, even though the theory isn't supported by what hotel witnesses saw and heard the night of the murder. So what were detectives missing? What evidence was available? And was there anything else they should have looked at but didn't because they decided to stick with Yolanda as their key witness? Let's back up to the moment Hardy was shot. We know officers began their investigation by talking to hotel guests, actual confirmed witnesses who were staying at the Crown Sterling Suites. Several people heard the shots and looked out their window right after it happened. Like Marshall Kelly Cummings, the Keebler cookie guy.

[Beth Shelburne]

Following is an interview with Mr. Marshall Kelly Cummings. Mr. Cummings is employed by Keebler.

[Mara McNamara]

This interview was recorded about two and a half hours after Hardy was shot. Cummings says he saw someone get into a car and drive away from the hotel right after he heard the shots fired.

[Beth Shelburne]

Where I immediately, as soon as the second shot rung out, I pulled the curtain back and looked out. And that's when I saw the car down below me. I saw a person.

[Mara McNamara]

Cummings says he saw the person close the driver's side door.

[Beth Shelburne]

When I looked up, they're closing. Which door? The driver's side.

[Mara McNamara]

He saw a copper colored or light brown car with a vinyl top. Slowly back out of the parking spot and drive away with the headlights off.

[Beth Shelburne]

But you think it was dark copper or light brown? Yes, sir.

[Mara McNamara]

And there was another witness in a different hotel room who also looked out his window after he heard the shots.

[Beth Shelburne]

I heard a shot, I jumped up. I just cleared the door and stuck my head out.

[Mara McNamara]

The night of the murder, Leon Colvin was staying in room 611 with his wife Annie. The two of them were in bed. He was watching TV and she was reading the newspaper. They heard the first shot and Leon told Annie he thought it was a car backfiring.

[Beth Shelburne]

You heard a shot, Bang. Tell me, how long after is it? Bang bang. Okay, so just a second or so, yeah.

[Mara McNamara]

After the second shot, Colvin went to the window to see what was going on.

[Beth Shelburne]

Seen the car down by the back of the motel. He walked up the side, came around the front of the car, got in the car.

[Mara McNamara]

Colvin's description of the car and what the car did as it left the parking lot matches the details given by Marshall Cummings.

[Beth Shelburne]

What color was that car? I told him it was a dark color, gold or brown with a kind of maroon looking top with a sunroof in it.

[Mara McNamara]

Both Cummings and Colvin say the car was a four door brown, gold or copper sedan with a maroon top. That's so specific. They both say it was the only car leaving the parking lot right after shots were fired. What these witnesses saw doesn't match the theory of the murder. Detectives go with, what kind of car.

[Beth Shelburne]

Was y' all in? Monte Carlo.

[Mara McNamara]

Ardragas describes his car to detectives the day he's arrested. He was driving a two door black 1971 Monte Carlo.

[Beth Shelburne]

What color? Black.

[Mara McNamara]

And he had installed Flowmaster mufflers. So it made a loud rumbling sound.

[Beth Shelburne]

I got like Flowmasters on my car. You got these floor masters, loud mufflers on the car. Okay.

[Mara McNamara]

People could hear Ardregas car coming from blocks away. Taforest tells detectives that when they picked up Latonya, they actually waited for her in an alley, but because they didn't want to wake up the entire house. But Colvin and Cummings say that the light brown or copper colored car quietly drove out of the parking lot. And there's an even bigger discrepancy.

[Beth Shelburne]

My door don't open. Oh, driver's door don't open.

[Mara McNamara]

The driver's side door on our very loud black Monte Carlo was broken. It did not open. Ardregas and Taforest tell this to detectives.

[Beth Shelburne]

Door won't open. That door, the driver door won't open at all.

[Mara McNamara]

Investigators impounded Ardregas car and confirmed the driver's side door didn't open. Detective Tony Richardson would later testify to this. But both Colvin and Cummings say that someone got in the driver's side of the car and quietly drove away.

[Beth Shelburne]

When I seen him, he walked from the passenger side around the front of the car to the driver's side, and he got in.

[Mara McNamara]

There were other guests at the hotel who spotted cars leaving the area around this time, but their descriptions were all different. The only consistent descriptions of the getaway car came from Cummings and Colvin, two people who went to their hotel room windows after hearing shots and looked down into the parking lot. The investigative file shows that police tried to find the car seen by Colvin and Cummings, but. But Tony Richardson would eventually tell a grand jury the search was a wild goose chase and that the car didn't exist. And there's something even more significant about this other hotel witness, Leon Colvin. He gives police a basic description of the man he saw. 5 foot 10, medium build, who got into the car and drove away.

[Beth Shelburne]

He had a black and white striped shirt and it looked like he had kind of baby khakis or something.

[Mara McNamara]

Colvin describes the man as wearing a black and white shirt and khaki or cream pants. This is the only physical description given of a potential suspect. But detectives decide that Colvin isn't a witness, he's a defendant. As I dig deeper, I learn that Detective Tony Richardson and Leon Colvin are cousins. And in the first week of the investigation, Richardson decides that Colvin is hiding something.

[Beth Shelburne]

We have talked with several people, people we have talked to have, have indicated that you do know more.

[Mara McNamara]

Colvin gives detectives multiple statements about what he heard and saw. And Tony Richardson interrogates him for hours about his movements inside the hotel the night of the murder, insisting that Colvin was involved.

[Beth Shelburne]

If you tell us one thing and it's not accurate, and we know that you know no different, then you can be charged with the crime. Okay, just so you know.

[Mara McNamara]

Tony Richardson shows Yolanda Chambers four photos of possible suspects. Yolanda picks out the photo of Leon Colvin and says he was involved in the alleged drug deal behind the hotel when Hardy was killed.

[Beth Shelburne]

Said you were standing right there when the man was shot. I wouldn't.

[Mara McNamara]

Leon Colvin is charged with hindering prosecution and taken to jail.

[Beth Shelburne]

I ain't did none of this him. I ain't did this here. I ain't did this here.

[Mara McNamara]

Police press ahead with our Dragis and Taforest as two of their main suspects. Even Though there is no record of any hotel witness describing a loud two door black Monte Carlo leaving the scene or a man in a wheelchair, There's another clue in the file that jumps out at me. A police report from a day after the murder states that a hotel worker named Jerry McDaniel told detectives that he saw Deputy Hardy arguing with the group of young black men who had been running around inside the hotel, especially the sixth floor. There's even a description of one of these young men. Six feet tall, slim, wearing a dark baggy basketball jersey with the number 33 on it. When I first read this, I was like, whoa. What? This information seems super relevant. Hardy was arguing with a group of people just hours before he was murdered. Jerry McDaniel would later testify in court that he saw Hardy having this loud argument with the group of young men around 10pm and that he saw Hardy again before he left for the night around 11:30. McDaniel said Hardy was standing at the back door of the hotel, propping it open with his foot. He also spotted the same group of young men outside in the back parking lot as he left work to go home. He said that after the confrontation, Hardy seemed mad, saying, I ain't never seen him like that before. But detectives never identified the young men and later say their interview with Jerry McDaniel never led to any more evidence. I want to pursue this. If Jerry McDaniel is still around, maybe he can give us some new information about those last hours of Hardy's life. Something about the young men he saw arguing with Hardy. Some new nugget to breathe life into this case.

[Beth Shelburne]

How are you?

[Mara McNamara]

I'm looking for Mr. Jerry McDaniel. Is that you? Thank you so much. Jerry McDaniel is retired in his 70s, and lives in a small green shake shingle bungalow, the same house he's lived in his entire adult life. We talk on his porch and he remembers Hardy's murder. Conversation with anybody?

[Beth Shelburne]

Yeah, because I'm moving around so I see everything I become to the Asian and stuff, you know, it been a lot of stuff going on that hotel.

[Mara McNamara]

Though McDaniel also remembers seeing Hardy argue with the group of young men inside the hotel. I mean, did it seem like Deputy Hardy knew those people?

[Beth Shelburne]

I don't know. He might have known him. Cause he something he wanted. Something they had or something they didn't give him. Something. I don't know what it was.

[Mara McNamara]

And about an hour and a half later, when he ended his shift and left the building, he passed by Hardy, who was standing at the hotel's back door. Do you remember, like exactly what you saw?

[Beth Shelburne]

Yeah, he was standing at the back door back there to the right. And it was a car out there when I left, you know, right there, right there at the back by where the dogs would be at.

[Mara McNamara]

But that's pretty much all he remembers. Had police aggressively pursued this lead, they might have gotten somewhere. But now, decades later, McDaniel can no longer recall any other specific details. Details about the car or anything else from that night. Whatever he saw, whoever those young men were, that potential big lead has faded. Likely impossible to recover. After reading through hundreds of pages of reports, there's a question that still sticks with me. Why did Deputy Hardy leave the hotel atrium where he was drinking coffee and smoking a cigarette, to go out the back door to the parking lot without his radio?

[Beth Shelburne]

And then usually every hour on the hour or so or every hour and a half, he would do a drive around the premises to check out the perimeter of the hotel.

[Mara McNamara]

According to Barry Rushakoff, the hotel desk clerk, Hardy's routine was to walk around inside the hotel when he was making his rounds. But when he checked around the outside of the hotel, he. He usually drove around the property in his car right after the crime. The sheriff tells reporters that Deputy Hardy may have been investigating something suspicious, maybe a drug deal. But if Hardy went outside to check something behind the hotel, why would he leave his two way radio on the table inside? Barry talked to detectives just five hours after the murder. He told them about how weird this detail seemed to him.

[Beth Shelburne]

Tell me what you thought was unusual about him not having the walkie talking. Officer Hardy. If he got up, he always put the radio in his back pocket. And if he was smoking, he never would leave a cigarette really. He would always walk around with it. For him to have left both the radio and the cigarette just was extremely unlike him. Completely unlike him.

[Mara McNamara]

Hardy had over two decades of experience as a law enforcement officer. Leaving his radio behind seems out of character. And he also left his cigarette burning. Is it possible that he was expecting to go outside quickly, maybe to meet someone, and that's why he left them behind? Is it possible that Hardy knew his killer? I tried to look into this. There is a file containing records of the calls that police received during from the special tip line set up for the case. And I found eight different tips urging detectives to look into Hardy's personal life. These tips suggest that someone Hardy knew might be connected to his murder. I asked Detective Tony Richardson about this. Is there anything that you recall y' all investigating as far as that goes.

[Beth Shelburne]

I don't recall that or recall us investigating anything. I'll say right now that I wouldn't have. I mean, I'm investigating a police officer that's dead. He's been shot and killed. It don't matter what, you know he did. If somebody walked up to him and.

[Mara McNamara]

Shot him like that, my producer, Mara, presses him like the first thing to me, if I hear that somebody is killing, I would look at their life for a motive instead of assuming that it was random.

[Beth Shelburne]

Is that not where you would start? You know, I can explain it like this. When Hardy was shot, he was in uniform working a part time security job, still a sheriff's deputy now doing his job, and he was shot and killed. Okay? If he had been at home in his pajamas, shot and killed in bed, we would have looked at him. Because that's what you do.

[Mara McNamara]

Because Deputy Hardy was a police officer and was killed in uniform, not in his own bed wearing pajamas. Detective Richardson says he wouldn't have looked into people that knew Hardy. Instead, Richardson repeats the theory that Hardy walked up on a drug deal that he wasn't supposed to see and that's why he was killed. An insider that I talked to, a retired bailiff who worked in Jefferson county when Deputy Hardy was murdered, told me that this theory about a police officer interrupting a drug deal, it's like a default explanation when detectives don't have any idea what happened. The sheriff first mentioned this scenario hours after the murder, and the media ran with it. The only eventual evidence to support this theory, the always changing statements from Yolanda Chambers. Why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kids legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids, all eight of them, should something happen to us. Are you my dad now?

[Beth Shelburne]

No, sorry. I do basements. Connecting homeowners with skills. Pros for over 30 years, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail] Breaking news, everybody.

[Mara McNamara]

Not everything is terrible. I repeat, not everything is terrible. The ripple effect with Jenna Kim Jones is proof that the Internet, it hasn't ruined humanity entirely. BYU Our currency is service and mentoring. Our currency is relationships.

[Beth Shelburne]

Our currency is people. But that's the kind of experiences that we want to create. We did not invent tailgates.

[Mara McNamara]

We don't have a corner on the market of good.

[Beth Shelburne]

That's really the framework for what Cougs Care became.

[Mara McNamara]

It's like magic, you guys. So put down your doom scroller and.

[Beth Shelburne]

Pick up your faith in humanity and.

[Mara McNamara]

Join me, Jenna, for the Ripple Effect. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. You really can. The response we got was huge.

[Beth Shelburne]

The camaraderie was. We got was huge.

[Mara McNamara]

We had a national endorsement from Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes about our specific service project. Listen to the Ripple Effect with Jenna Kim Jones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter? Right? And the best part, they accept Discover. Accept Discover in a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer. Oh, yeah.

[Beth Shelburne]

Huh?

[Mara McNamara]

Discover is accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby. Get with the times.

[Beth Shelburne]

Right?

[Mara McNamara]

So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.

[Beth Shelburne]

These are making a comeback, I think. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Mara McNamara]

Detectives not only missed potential promising leads, they also ignored facts that could have ruled out to Forrest Johnson and our Dragis Ford as suspects. Some of the people who were with Taforest and Hardregis at T's place remember learning about their arrests from the media coverage the week after the murder.

[Beth Shelburne]

When I read it in the paper, I saw Tafora's name and I was like, well, how did he do it? We was at Tease, you know, that.

[Mara McNamara]

Night, Kenyara Pickett was at teas at the same time Deputy Hardy was killed. She was out celebrating with her sister Deidre, who had just recovered from surgery. And Taforest gave her name to police.

[Beth Shelburne]

It's a female. They call her Ken. Ken? Ken, yeah. Man's name? Yes.

[Mara McNamara]

Ke he told them to find a girl named Ken that he was hanging out with AT Ts, but they never called or knocked on her door.

[Beth Shelburne]

I never went to the police or anything because I was underage at the time. Yeah.

[Mara McNamara]

I mean, how old were you?

[Beth Shelburne]

I think I was 20. It was 95. 20. I turned 20 in April. Yeah.

[Mara McNamara]

So did they not check IDs the at the club, or did y' all have fake IDs?

[Beth Shelburne]

They had a fake ID.

[Mara McNamara]

So that made you not want to go to police because you didn't want to? You weren't supposed to be there.

[Beth Shelburne]

Yeah, I didn't want to go to jail.

[Mara McNamara]

Kenyarra was scared that she would end up in jail if she went to police.

[Beth Shelburne]

I saw on the news that Tafara Johnson had been picked up for that murder of Officer Hardy. I Said, wait a minute. There's no way.

[Mara McNamara]

I said, I saw Tafara. Stanley Chandler is another person who saw Taforest and Ardregas at T's place at the time Deputy Hardy was murdered. Stanley is a U.S. marine, and he was also hesitant to get involved.

[Beth Shelburne]

You know, you 25, just cannot walk in. No down to county jail, say, hey, I saw that guy at the club that night at that time, you know, so. But no one never contacted me. So I felt like. Like if fires needed me, that someone would reach out. I had no knowledge of what to do.

[Mara McNamara]

Ardragas and Taforest told police about multiple people they were with at teas. The bartender who remade a weak drink, the guy who sold Taforest a hot dog outside the club, and the girls they chatted with in the parking lot. Taforest also gave Tony Richardson the names and phone numbers of friends, friends he remembered seeing inside the club.

[Beth Shelburne]

One female name is Quesi.

[Mara McNamara]

Quesy, including Quesi and Mama Cat.

[Beth Shelburne]

Okay, go ahead. One female name is Mama Cat. Her number is 785 Forrest. Trying to write this. Okay, 75. Tafaris couldn't give us any names other than nicknames or maybe a first name. There was no way that we could find a witness. But we sat and we waited, hoping that, you know, who don't know that Tafarus is in jail for this crime. Maybe they'll come forward. Not a single one. Nobody came forward to say, hey, you got the wrong guy. He was. He was at the club.

[Mara McNamara]

Not a single person came forward. Forward to say to Forest was at T's place the night of the murder. After Tony Richardson tells me this, I look through the investigative file to double check.

[Beth Shelburne]

This is Sergeant Tony Richardson, Jefferson County Sheriff's Office. I am on the phone with Barbetta. And that's spelled B A R B E T T A Hunt, also known as Mama Cat. Do you. Do you remember where Tafarus Johnson was on the night of July 18th or the morning of July 19th? Yes, I do. Okay, can you tell me where?

[Mara McNamara]

Right there. In the folder of recorded police interviews, I find that Detective Richardson did talk with an alibi witness he called Mama Cat about a month after the murder.

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, I saw him at T's place. You saw. I'm at T's place. Yes. I was with my friend Velonique Sanders. Vellanique Sanders? Yes, sir. Okay. All right. I am on the phone with Velonique Sanders. Velonique is also known as Queasy, and her home phone number is 788 on.

[Mara McNamara]

The same day, Detective Richardson talked to Vellonique, also known as Quesi. She told him she saw Taforest and Ardregas inside tees between 11pm and 1:30am okay.

[Beth Shelburne]

All right. Is it any particular reason that you remember the time that they got there and the time that they left? Yes, the time that they got there. My friend Barbelda Hunt, her beeper had went off, and I remember her telling me what time it was. Okay, what about the time they left? The time they left, my beeper went out. Okay. My sister was paging me to tell me to come home. That's why I remember the time. Okay. All right.

[Mara McNamara]

Now, I interviewed Tony Richardson 27 years after this investigation. I guess it's possible that he just doesn't remember speaking with Mama Cat and Queecy. So after I found these phone calls, I went back to ask him about it. There were alibi witnesses on the record that told y' all I saw them at T's place. Now, whatever went into not believing them is not in any files that we've been able to access.

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, since I don't know who this witness was, I can't remember them. I can't remember what they said. I can't really tell you if I believe them or not. Probably not. Probably not.

[Mara McNamara]

But cops have a lot of discretion as far as that goes. Right. In believing alibi witnesses are not believing alibi witnesses.

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, you have. I mean, you can believe or disbelieve anybody, but if someone tells you something that either you need to check out your check further or tells you something that could possibly have happened, you have an obligation to either prove or disprove that. You have that obligation.

[Mara McNamara]

But speaking with Mama Cat and Quesi, hearing them corroborate Taforest and Ardragas alibi, it wasn't enough for detectives to question their own theory of the crime. The pressure to put someone on trial for killing Deputy Hardy isn't letting up. But 15 months after the crime, the judge dismisses capital murder charges against two of their main suspects, Omar Berry and Quintess Wilson. Yolanda Chambers changes her story to say they weren't involved in the murder. They also have alibis, and police believe them. So detectives, let them go. DeForest and Ardregas are now the only two suspects charged with Deputy Hardy's murder. But Wright is detective Zero in on our Dragis. And to Forrest, they run into a big problem. Two weeks after she says Omar Berry and Quintess Wilson have nothing to do with the crime, Yolanda Chambers pivots and says under oath that she's made up the entire story about the murder. She recants all of her testimony now, saying to Forest and Ardragas also had nothing to do with the murder.

[Beth Shelburne]

Evidence wise, we didn't have virtually. Well, we had virtually no evidence. We had the word of a 15 year old who told lies. A lot of lies. I've lied, I've lied, I've lied. We had this table empty. Well, nothing on it. And we were still trying to try that case. And we were like, man, what we gonna do? How are we gonna win this?

[Mara McNamara]

But investigators have someone else, someone they hadn't initially believed. Someone who will become the state's new star witness against Taforest Johnson.

[Beth Shelburne]

Bolly Nelson. Walk in that door and stand up on this table and say what she said. We got a full table now. We got all the evidence we need.

[Mara McNamara]

That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava for Good podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one. Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardes and me, Beth Shelburne. The investigative reporting for this series was done by me and Mara McNamara. Producers are Mara McNamara, Hannah Biel and Jackie Pauley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer. Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from Marie Sutton. Fact check help from Katherine Newhan and special thanks to Taforest Johnson's legal defense team. You can follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Twitteravorgood. To see behind the scenes content from our investigation, visit lavaforgood.com earwitness.

[Beth Shelburne]

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[Mara McNamara]

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[Beth Shelburne]

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[Mara McNamara]

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[Beth Shelburne]

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[Mara McNamara]

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