Trial by Ambush

Summary

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Bone Valley S1E3: Trial by Ambush

Published: September 28, 2022
Host: Gilbert King (Lava for Good Podcasts)

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Episode Overview

Main Theme:
This episode delves into the complexities and failures of Leo Schofield’s murder trial for the killing of his wife, Michelle. The story is told through firsthand accounts, court records, and interviews, exploring how Leo’s defense unraveled, prosecutorial ethics were questioned, and jury dynamics ultimately sealed his fate. The episode critiques the justice system’s handling of the trial, highlighting Leo’s inexperience, poor legal strategy, and a prosecutor’s unorthodox actions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Public Defender Dilemma

[04:11–10:17]

• Leo, 22, unable to afford a private attorney, is assigned a public defender. Investigator Toni Maloney and attorney Holly Stutts take a keen interest and believe in his innocence.
• Inside jail culture, Leo’s cellmate “Squeegee” warns him against trusting public defenders, calling them “public pretenders,” pressuring Leo to seek a high-profile lawyer.
  • “Squeegee had said, you can't go to trial on a murder charge with a public defender... you need a superstar attorney.” – Leo ([07:06])
• Leo hires famed attorney Jack Edmond by signing over his forthcoming $50,000 insurance settlement, only to be abandoned and left waiting months without communication.

2. Unethical Prosecutorial Conduct

[10:42–15:24]

• Amidst attorney absence, Leo, alone in jail, is unexpectedly approached by prosecutor John Aguero—wearing an electric chair tie pin—who tries to solicit testimony against Leo’s own father in exchange for immunity.
  • “I believe your father's guilty and you're covering for him.” – Aguero ([11:44])
  • “I'm gonna put you in the electric chair.” – Aguero, slamming his hand on the table when Leo refuses ([14:20])
• Legal experts inform King that such conduct violates the Sixth Amendment and prosecutorial ethics, but there’s no available record to substantiate Leo’s account and Aguero is deceased.
  • “Prosecutors are never supposed to negotiate plea deals... without defense counsel present.” – Gilbert King ([14:45])

3. The 'Superstar' Defense Falls Flat

[15:25–18:10]

• Leo first meets his new defense lawyer, Jack Edmond, the night before trial. Edmond, a legendary but unorthodox showman, employs a “trial by ambush” style—reacting to the state's case instead of mounting his own.
  • “If you needed to win a case on the law... you didn't want Jack Edmond.” – Gilbert King ([18:10])
  • “He was the one you wanted if you were guilty, guilty, guilty.” – Sheriff Grady Judd ([17:35])
• Edmond declines a plea deal from the prosecutor (12 years for second-degree murder) without consulting Leo.

4. Trial Begins: Theatrics vs Preparation

[22:38–29:39]

• Edmond is described as flamboyant, walking into court daily with rolls of Lifesavers. He’s ill-prepared, mixing up witness names, dates, and locations in his opening argument:
  • “Now I'm lost. I done goofed up, hadn't I? Nope. I'm wrong, ladies and gentlemen.” – Jack Edmond, in his opening ([29:02])
• Leo’s mismatched jail-cut hair and ill-fitting borrowed suits paint a pitiful figure in court.

5. State’s Case: Character Assassination & Weak Evidence

[29:39–37:39]

• The prosecution, lacking physical evidence, leans heavily on bad character testimony from 21 witnesses—detailing Leo’s temper, violence, and alleged abuse towards Michelle.
• Star witness Alice Scott claims to have seen Leo carrying a “heavy object” from his house and cleaning the carpet—a narrative contradicted by her own sister-in-law, Linda Sells, whose timeline is off by a week or two.
  • “You knew it wasn't a body. There's no way you could have mistaken an amp for a body.” – Leo, recalling the event ([36:31])
• Much is made of Leo Sr.’s bizarre claim that a “premonition from God” led him to Michelle's body—a story that backfires under Aguero's aggressive cross-examination.

6. Defense Case: A Weak Stand

[40:48–41:38]

• Leo takes the stand at Edmond’s insistence—usually a risk in a murder trial—admitting to past temper and minor violence but denying murder.
• On cross, Aguero is relentless, exploiting Leo’s inexperience, making him appear inconsistent.
  • “I don't have any training on how to speak to people... I'm scared to death as it is.” – Leo ([44:46])
  • “Leo was trying really hard to hold his composure, but it was tough.” – Reporter ([46:35])

7. Closing Arguments & Jury Deliberation

[47:21–51:12]

• Aguero uses a narrative “12 days of Christmas” style closing, emphasizing coincidences but including misstatements and ignoring inconsistencies in the testimony.
  • “If you want to believe this man is innocent, then you have to believe this is a coincidence...” – Aguero ([47:21])
• Edmond, underprepared, focuses on the lack of physical evidence.
• The jury, now reduced to 10 members due to illness and emergency (no alternates), deliberates for four hours.

8. Verdict and Aftermath

[51:12–54:28]

• Leo is found guilty of first-degree murder. The courtroom is described as shocked but relieved.
  • “When they said he was guilty, we were just relieved and happy, and for a few minutes it was a celebration.” – Karen Kilgariff ([52:03])
  • “I don't want to die.” – Leo to his attorney upon conviction ([53:41])
• Leo addresses the jury at sentencing, pleading his innocence, but is sentenced to life in prison, as the prosecutor failed to win a death sentence.
  • “You’ve already taken [my life] away. I'm not guilty. I didn't kill my wife.” – Leo ([54:28])

9. Critical Missed Evidence

[54:46–End]

• The episode closes with King revealing that Leo’s lawyer ignored potentially exculpatory fingerprint evidence found in Michelle’s car—a fact left unexplored during the trial and pivotal to the ongoing investigation.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “All I'm looking for, somebody needs to come and save me. You know, I don't know how you're going to do it... I just know that I need some help.” – Leo ([08:25])
• “Prosecutors are never supposed to negotiate plea deals... without defense counsel present.” – Gilbert King ([14:45])
• “If you were guilty, and had to win on the emotion of the jury, you always wanted Jack Edmond.” – Sheriff Grady Judd ([17:42])
• “Now I'm lost. I done goofed up, hadn't I? Nope. I'm wrong, ladies and gentlemen.” – Jack Edmond ([29:02])
• “I was incredulous that this could even be taking place. It was just so beyond my ability to imagine that I would personally be facing something like that.” – Leo ([53:20])
• “Wouldn’t you like to know if someone else’s fingerprints were in that Mazda?... The painful truth is someone else’s fingerprints were found in the Mazda and the fingerprint evidence was right there for Jack Edmond to see. If he had just looked…” – Gilbert King ([54:46])

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Timestamped Highlights

• [05:44] – Toni Maloney describes initial faith in Leo’s innocence.
• [09:09] – Private attorney’s investigator demands $10,000 from Leo.
• [12:19] – Leo is alone with prosecutor Aguero (and no defense counsel).
• [17:35] – Grady Judd discusses “trial by ambush” legal style.
• [24:16] – Leo describes his mismatched courtroom attire.
• [29:02] – Edmond’s bumbling opening argument.
• [33:39] – Alice Scott testifies about seeing Leo move a "heavy object."
• [36:31] – Leo realizes the event Scott describes is him carrying an amp, not a body.
• [41:38] – Leo honestly faces his own character on the witness stand.
• [44:46] – Leo describes his terror during cross-examination.
• [47:21] – Aguero’s “12 days of Christmas” closing.
• [52:03] – Jury delivers guilty verdict; defense reacts in shock.
• [54:28] – Leo’s plea to the jury at sentencing.
• [54:46] – Revelation: Key fingerprint evidence ignored.

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Tone & Storytelling Style

The episode maintains a tone of tragic inevitability, deep skepticism toward the justice system, and empathy for the wrongly accused. Gilbert King’s narration is deeply investigative yet accessible, mixing technical legal insights with the very human distress of those involved. Direct quotes from Leo capture his vulnerability, while courtroom figures like Aguero and Edmond are painted in all their flawed humanity and charisma.

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Conclusion

“Trial by Ambush” offers a vivid account of a trial gone awry—showing how inexperience, systemic neglect, prosecutorial overreach, and a focus on spectacle over substance can combine to produce a devastating miscarriage of justice. The episode leaves listeners with the knowledge that beyond the verdict, crucial evidence was never explored—a revelation that sets the stage for further investigation in the ongoing Bone Valley story.

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Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, it's Karen and Georgia, and we just celebrated our 500th episode of My Favorite Murder. That's 500 podcasts filled with true crime comedy and some light girl math. We're about to podcast for you. Watch this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We have to think of something to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Say after welcome every week. And we're doing it every week for 10 years.

[Gilbert King]

Almost 10 years. 10 years.

[Georgia Hardstark]

10.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what 500 episodes sounds like. New episodes every Thursday. Listen to my favorite murder on the.

[Gilbert King]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On this podcast, Incels, we unpack an emerging mindset.

[Gilbert King]

I am a loser. If I was a woman, I wouldn't date me either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women at a deadly tipping point.

[Gilbert King]

Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day in which I will have my revenge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is Incels. Listen to season one of Incels on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7. Zone 7 ain't a place. It's a way of life. Now, this ain't just any old podcast, honey. We're going to be talking to family members of victims, detectives, prosecutors, and some nationally recognized experts that I have called on over the years to help me work these difficult cases. I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't. We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes. Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims, family members. Come be a part of my Zone 7 while building yours. Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was in a cell with two other guys that were in for murder. One definitely got the death penalty. I'm not sure what the other one got. And they were so cavalier about it. One of them made a joke. Maybe we can get them to give us an electric couch. And they made that joke. That's the way it was in the jail. Just having to be part of that, you know, to, like, I'm one that would be sitting in the couch, you know, that's beyond my comprehension. I don't even belong in this story.

[Gilbert King]

Foreign It's June of 1988, 16 months after Michelle Schofield was found stabbed to death in a drainage canal in Polk County, Florida. Her husband of just six months, Leo Schofield, is now sitting in The Polk County Jail facing first degree murder charges. The prosecutor, John Aguero, is seeking the death penalty. Leo insists he's innocent. Laughter hides my fears.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorrow's depths are.

[Gilbert King]

Endless in this valley of tears.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I.

[Gilbert King]

Wanna see a revelation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wanna know who you are.

[Gilbert King]

I'm reaching out in desperation to the one who's holding the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Star.

[Gilbert King]

To the one who bone Valley Chapter 3 trial by ambush the very first thing that got me hooked on Leo's case was the trial transcript that Judge Scott Cupp sent to me. The trial lasted about two weeks in March of 1989, and unfortunately, there wasn't audio or video recording in the courtroom. But the trial transcript documents every word of what was said. There's a lot that happened over those two weeks, so we're going to break it down. The first thing to focus on is Leo's defense. At 22 years old and unable to make bail, Leo sits in the Polk County Jail awaiting trial. Since he's unable to afford an attorney, his case is assigned to the office of the Public Defender.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My name is Tony Maloney, and my job is mostly related to homicide cases.

[Gilbert King]

Toni Maloney was an investigator with the office, and she recalls that a young colleague, Holly Stutts, was sent down to the jail to interview Leo, and she.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Took a lot of interest in Scofield's case.

[Gilbert King]

Leo starts from the beginning, and Holly takes detailed notes. To Holly, Leo is coming across like a young man who was desperately searching for his wife. And the more she learns about his timeline, the more she's convinced that Leo could not have murdered Michelle. So Holly goes back to the public defender's office and briefs Tony and the attorneys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she called him her little rock and roller. And she just believed in him. I mean, she really wanted to fight the fight. Anybody that I worked with closely on that case, we all really wanted to believe Leo. And he was so adamant that he didn't do it.

[Gilbert King]

But as the public defender's office is working on his case, Leo is talking to his cellmates and they're giving him advice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One of the cellmates that I had was this guy named Squeegee who apparently.

[Gilbert King]

Got his nickname from killing a guy with a squeegee.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Squeegee had said, you can't go to trial on a murder charge with a public defender. You cannot do that.

[Gilbert King]

Squeegee tells him that public defenders are known in the system as public pretenders. Leo can't trust his life to these attorneys as an investigator for the public defender's office. These are things Tony Maloney has heard before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, in the jail they'd say, no, you gotta have a real lawyer. That was how they would say it to me. And then they got my speech. Let me explain to you how we work cases. No leaf will be left unturned. You will have two lawyers on your case and they have a lot of education and experience. You will have at least one investigator. More than likely you'll have two. And more you will have specialists hired to help us evaluate your case. And I said, you know, you're not going to get any finer defense than you're going to get right here. And Leo probably got that speech from more than one of us.

[Gilbert King]

But other inmates, like squeegee, are getting into Leo's head. The public pretender's office will not save you. They tell him, you need a superstar attorney.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All I'm looking for, somebody needs to come and save me. You know, I don't know how you're going to do it or what needs to be done. I don't know anything about the system, how it works or any of that stuff. I just know that I need some help.

[Gilbert King]

One name that keeps coming up is Jack Edmond, the most famous private defense attorney in Polk County. He's expensive, but you gotta get Jack Edmond.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're telling Leo, I was starstruck with Edmund.

[Gilbert King]

So Leo arranges a meeting with Edmund and one day he's brought to an attorney's room. He assumes he'll be meeting Edmund, but instead the guy sitting there introduces himself as Bob Nipper, Jack Edmond's investigator.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he said, he said, son, my name is Bob Knipper. I work for Jack Edmond. If you want the best, you gotta pay top dollar. My fee is $10,000 off the top. Without proper representation, your life will end in Rayford.

[Gilbert King]

Rayford is the Florida State Prison. It's where Old Sparky, Florida's electric chair sits. By the late 1980s, Florida, Florida had not yet switched to lethal injection. And Florida's electric chair was the nation's so called busiest instrument of death. Old Sparky claimed the lives of 20 men that decade, including serial killer Ted Bundy, who was executed only weeks before Leo's trial would begin. Leo tells Bob Nipper about the car accident he was in, how just a few months after Michelle's murder, he was a passenger in a car that flipped over and he broke his neck. He was getting $50,000 in an insurance settlement. Nipper tells Jack Edmond, who agrees to represent Leo if Leo signs over the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Settlement and the case goes away.

[Gilbert King]

Leo drops Tony Maloney and the public defender's office to go with the celebrated defense attorney, Jack Edmond, with a quote, unquote, real lawyer like Edmund looking into his case, Leo's hoping this will all be cleared up quickly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now, that's how I ended up dismissing the public defender's office, which was the biggest mistake that I made at that time.

[Gilbert King]

Months pass, and Leo doesn't hear anything from his private attorney, Jack Edmond. He's learning that when you're charged with a capital crime, nothing happens fast. Then one night, Leo says that a guard arrives at his cell to take him down for an attorney visit. He's led into a little room with a table and a few chairs. He assumes he's there to finally meet his defense attorney, Jack Edmond. But it's not Edmund. It's the prosecutor, John Aguero, who walks into the room.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So when he comes in, I remember him from the plane. He wore a electric chair tie tack. And I'll never forget that because I commented when I saw it, I said, you don't think that's kind of morbid? And he said, no, I don't. Just like that. Plain as day.

[Gilbert King]

John Aguero sits down at the table, and Leo doesn't know what to expect.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He said, I want. I want to talk to you about your father. I said, okay. He said, I believe your father's guilty and you're covering for him.

[Gilbert King]

Leo has heard this line before. He's already gone through the interrogation about his father with Detectives Weeks and Putnam, and he's under the impression that Aguero, or anyone who shows up in a suit and tie has authority over him. So he's supposed to answer their questions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I never hinted at I need a lawyer. I mean, it never even crossed my mind to say, I need my lawyer here.

[Gilbert King]

So now Leo's alone in a room with his prosecutor, the man trying to send him to the electric chair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was being polite. I was being trusting, you know, I mean, I trusted in the process, you know, I knew this was going to be made right. All I had to do was, was convince him that I was telling the truth. That was it. That's what you're supposed to do. That's how I was raised.

[Gilbert King]

Leo says that Aguero doesn't bring a tape recorder. He doesn't have someone there to take notes or anyone to witness the conversation. It's just Leo and Aguero.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You would never talk to a potential witness or suspect without recording it. You just don't do it unless you don't want to be Recorded. And that's exactly what happened.

[Gilbert King]

Aguero looks Leo in the eye. Listen, he says, I know you didn't kill Michelle. Your father did it. And if you agree to testify against him, I'll draw up some paperwork and you can walk out of here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, I think he really thought that dad did it. I think that Aguirrel believed that dad did it. I don't think he ever really believed that I did it.

[Gilbert King]

Aguero doesn't have any physical evidence against Leo's father or any eyewitness testimony that connects him to Michelle on the night she disappeared. He just knows about this weird premonition that Leo Sr. Told a police officer and others that a vision from God had led him to Michelle's body. To Aguero, this is beyond suspicious. But Leo refuses the deal. He insists that he's telling Aguero the truth. He didn't kill Michelle, and neither did his father.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You want me to testify to something that would be a lie? I don't have that information. What happened is exactly what I've been saying. What I've just told you again, and what I told them multiple times over and over and over again, that never will change. That's what happened. And he got really frustrated with me telling him that. And he slammed his hand on the table and he said, I'm gonna put you in the electric chair. And I said, that's what you're gonna have to do. But I'm not gonna say something that's not true.

[Gilbert King]

When Leo first told us about this meeting with Aguero, he. He was so matter of fact about the visit, I didn't even question it. But when I mentioned it to other attorneys, I got the same reaction again and again. Eyebrows were raised. Twice I was asked to turn off the tape recorder. These attorneys were appalled. They told me that prosecutors are never supposed to negotiate plea deals or offers of immunity without defense counsel present. It could violate the Sixth Amendment, which guarantees the right to counsel in all criminal proceedings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That man came and saw me. He offered me an immunity deal to testify against my father.

[Gilbert King]

The attorneys I spoke to told me that this was completely unethical and that Aguero could have been subject to disciplinary action. But some lawyers said they weren't surprised that state attorneys were getting away with these kind of things. In rural counties like Polk, Kelsey and I file record requests to try to corroborate Leo's claim that Aguero visited him in the jail. But we were told those records no longer exist. So we only have Leo's word that this meeting with Aguero took place. But we would soon learn that this wasn't the only time Aguero was accused of doing something like this. Ideally, we would have asked Aguero about this directly, but he died in 2017. We reached out to the State Attorney's office to see if others who worked with John Aguero would talk to us, but they declined our requests for interviews. Leo's been in the Polk County Jail for nine months now. Jack Edmond has been his lawyer for nearly six months, but Leo still hasn't met him until finally, the night before his trial. Leo is taken down to an attorney's room and he lays eyes on his defense lawyer for the very first time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He had cowboy hat, ripped jeans, button up shirt, pack of Camel non filters and a yellow legal pad. The pad was empty. He didn't have a note on it.

[Gilbert King]

Edmund shakes Leo's hand. He's 63 years old and he's the first to admit his own legal shortcomings. He once told a local reporter, when I need research, I call someone who's gifted and bright and I'm neither. Edmund's style was to conduct what he called trial by ambush, reacting to the state's case and exposing its weaknesses in cross examination. He was the one you wanted if.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You were guilty, guilty, guilty, and somebody had to mesmerize the jury.

[Gilbert King]

This is Grady Judd, the current sheriff of Polk County. He was good friends with Jack Edmond.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you were guilty and had to.

[Gilbert King]

Win on the emotion of the jury, you always wanted Jack Edmond.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I have seen him walk so.

[Gilbert King]

Many guilty people out of the courtroom because of his charisma, his personality, his intellect and his absolute mastery of the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Courtroom, there's none better.

[Gilbert King]

But if you needed to win a case on the law, the fine print of the law, you didn't want Jack Edmond. Edmond didn't do any pretrial interviews with witnesses or hire any experts to analyze the evidence. And during his meeting with Leo, they didn't go over the state's evidence either. To Leo, Edmund didn't seem very familiar with his case. But Edmund says that Assistant State Attorney John Aguero has offered Leo a deal. This one has nothing to do with his father. Aguero will reduce the first degree murder charge to second degree murder if Leo agrees to plead guilty. That comes with a 12 year sentence. But given that Leo has no criminal record and with credit for time served, Leo could actually be out of prison in just a few years. To Edmund, this plea deal is a sign that the state isn't confident in the strength of its case against Leo. But before Leo can even think it over, Edmund tells him he already took the liberty of turning down Aguero's deal. Leo didn't know it at the time, but this isn't supposed to happen either. Leo says he would never plead guilty to anything anyway, but even so, he did think it was strange that his lawyer didn't consult with him first. It would be the first in a string of very strange decisions. By Jack Edmund Foreign hi, I'm Jason Flom, CEO and founder of Lava for Good Podcasts, home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, the War on Drugs, and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners, to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going to help inform how we make podcasts in the future. Your complete and candid answers will help us continue to bring you more insightful and inspire inspiring stories about important topics that impact us all. So please go to lavaforgood.com survey and participate today. Thank you for your support. Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems, including the failed war on drugs that has criminalized addiction, fueled over incarceration and shattered communities. By 35, Kelly Lingard was an executive with a Fortune 20 IT company. If you had asked her thoughts on addiction, she would have said that addiction was about making bad choices and irresponsibility. But after hearing the story of a woman in recovery, Kelly's perspective shifted. She began to understand that addiction was a problem of pain, not irresponsibility, as she discovered how difficult it is for people to maintain their sobriety in the long run after watching too many women get sober, only to relapse and die within days or weeks of completing a recovery program, Kelly knew she could use her business skills to make a difference. She left her career and started Unshattered with the mission of ending the addiction relapse cycle. Unshattered employs women in recovery, training them to make premium handbags from upcycled materials and providing them with a compassionate community that helps them continue their journey beyond sobriety to move toward healing and growth. It demonstrates a smarter way of treating addiction that moves away from criminalization and keeps people out of the Stories system. Kelly Lingard is one of the many entrepreneurs partnering with Stand Together to drive solutions in education, health care, poverty, and criminal justice. To learn more about addiction and the War on Drugs, listen to the War on Drugs podcast On Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The trial begins on March 8, 1989. It's the morning after Leo met Jack Edmond for the first time. And he walks into court with his defense attorney at his side.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was a known quantity. Everybody in the courthouse knew him.

[Gilbert King]

This is Judge Charles Davis, the trial judge in Leo's case.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, he must have had at least a 29 inch waist. I mean, real small pencil like fellow, a Jack Edmond quirk. Every morning, every morning that you're in trial, he walks into the courtroom and he comes up to the bench and on the bench he places two rolls of Lifesavers. He walks over to the clerk's stand and he places two rolls of Lifesavers. He walks over to the stenographer's stand and he places two rolls of Lifesavers. Then he goes to the state attorney's table and he places one roll of Lifesaver. But my kids loved it when I tried cases with Jack Edmond because I came home with pockets full of Lifesavers. I mean, he was. That was his. That was his M.O.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jack was very flamboyant and he had a delightful southern accent. Just a dream.

[Gilbert King]

This is Susie Shaddlecotte. She's been reporting on the Polk county courts for the Lakeland Ledger since 1984. The Leo Schofield case was one of the first trials she covered gavel to gavel, as she says.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jack actually took acting lessons to perform for a jury. And he looked like Colonel Sanders. He always wore boots and he always wore a western suit. You know, it was a soup, but it had the western cut in the back.

[Gilbert King]

As for Leo, he was looking a little rough around the edges when he entered the courtroom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was into rock and roll. I was a musician. I was in a band. I was pretty successful with doing that. If I could do this again so that the jury knows who I am, I'd go in there just like I was every day. I never wore a suit in my life ever. I hadn't cut my hair. I don't remember the last time I cut my hair before I went to jail. But it wasn't like I looked like I crawled out of a dumpster. It was who I was. Now they cut my hair off and it was cut off in the jail, which you can imagine is not like super cuts or anything. And then I had two suits. One of them was my father's and the other one was, I believe was David Collins, who was still a friend of mine. And one was a dark blue and one was a light blue. Neither one of them fit. I'd wear one one day, one the next, and then I wore the light blue jacket with the dark blue pants and the light blue pants and dark blue jacket. Just kept switching it for the entire trial.

[Gilbert King]

As Leo takes his seat at the defendant's table, he catches a glimpse of the prosecutor, John Aguero, on the other side of the courtroom. Since Leo turned down both of Aguero's offers, the young prosecutor is laser focused on sending the heavy metal kid from Massachusetts to the electric chair. At the time of Leo's trial, Aguero is 36 years old. He's recently been promoted to chief homicide prosecutor, and he's already put one man on death row. So Aguero is supremely confident and he commands everyone's attention in the courtroom. Now jury selection begins, but there's already a problem. Another high profile death penalty case is happening at the same time in the same courthouse. Both cases are pulling potential jurors from the same pool of people that showed up for jury duty. But one by one, potential jurors are being excused because they can't afford to take weeks out of their lives to sit on a long trial. So the pool of available jurors is dwindling. Twelve jurors are eventually selected for the Leo Schofield trial, but no alternates. That means that if anyone on the jury gets sick or has a family emergency, there won't be anyone to replace them. Leo's lawyer, Jack Edmond, could have stopped the trial right there until they could seat alternate jurors. But Aguero, the prosecutor, wants to proceed. Edmund also agrees to proceed with no alternate jurors, which is odd because this is a death penalty case. It only takes one vote of not guilty to cause a mistrial. So you want as many jurors as possible, but Leo trusts his famous lawyer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, I don't have any idea what that means for me. I'm wanting to help Aguirrel. I'm wanting to show him what a nice guy I am. You know what I mean? Because I'm thinking somewhere along the line in this nightmare of the dream I'm having that we're all going to wake up and see that this isn't right. And even a girl will see that it isn't right. Because justice plays out always.

[Gilbert King]

John Aguero walks toward the jury to deliver the state's opening argument. What kind of person is Leo Schofield? He asks. Is he a docile, mild mannered young man? As he sits there Looking at you today, you're going to find out that's the farthest thing from the truth. Leo Schofield is a very violent young man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, John was thunderous and he was very demonstrative. He would use his arms. He would be, we are here because. And then he'd spin on his heel and point to the defendant and say, because that man decided that da, da, da, da didn't deserve to live any longer. And he would just be off to the races. He would get up there with nothing and he would just tell a story.

[Gilbert King]

But when Leo's defense attorney, Jack Edmond, rises for his opening, it's clear he hasn't done his homework. Right off the bat, he gets the name of Leo's landlord wrong. Then Edmund mixes up the days of the week from when Michelle disappears until she's found. He stands before a map of Lakeland and starts describing roads and distances and times without any context or story. Maybe the jury is able to follow along, but Edmund is not. He points to Combie Road and seems confused. Let's see, he says, staring at the map. Now I'm lost. I done goofed up, hadn't I? More silence. Nope. I'm wrong, ladies and gentlemen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think he thought that this case was really a weak case. It was a weak circumstantial case and there's no way you're going to hang first degree murder on this kid. And so he didn't put much in it. And unfortunately, he underestimated the power of John Aguero.

[Gilbert King]

Still, Leo remains optimistic. Edmund had told him that he had a 90% chance of walking out of the court acquitted. After both sides make opening statements, Aguero starts calling witnesses to to answer his opening question. What kind of person is Leo Scofield? The State's case against Leo Schofield is a circumstantial case, which means John Aguero has no physical evidence linking Leo to Michelle's murder and no witness who claimed to have seen the actual crime. So instead, Aguero brings in a steady stream of battle. Bad character witnesses. It's an onslaught. There's 21 of them all together. One witness after another describes incidents where Leo punches holes in the wall, turns over furniture and smashes guitars. That he dragged Michelle up a flight of stairs by her hair. But that's not all. Witnesses testify that Leo didn't help with his wife's funeral arrangements, that he wasn't able to tell the officer his wife's year of birth, and that he was going out to bars with friends not long after Michelle was killed, Aguero wants the jury wondering, what kind of guy does that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And every trial has what they call it's a black day. This is what I learned in the jail. Everybody knows you go to trial, there's a black day where something doesn't go right. But for me, every one of those days was a black day.

[Gilbert King]

One of the witnesses Aguero calls to the stand is Michelle McCluskey. She spots Leo as soon as she enters the courtroom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I walked in, and he was turned around in his chair and watched me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, walk up and he stared at me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But instead of being afraid or trying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not to lock eyes with them, I just wanted to stare him down. I wanted to burn all of them, you know?

[Gilbert King]

This is Michelle Schofield's best friend, who helped Leo look for his wife when she went missing. Michelle McCluskey had her suspicions about Leo after Michelle disappeared. But now, two years later, she's convinced that Leo killed Michelle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They asked me what was my relationship to Michelle and how long did I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Know her and what was my relationship to Leo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I just looked at him, and I had to think about it for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A minute, and I said, he was my friend. Yeah, he was.

[Gilbert King]

Michelle McCluskey describes a very unstable relationship between Leo and Michelle and tells Aguero that she saw the couple fight a lot. One time she heard Leo yell from another room, shut up. I hate you. I'll kill you. You. She says she thought she heard Leo slapper, but Michelle swore to her that Leo didn't. As I read the trial transcript, there's no doubt Leo comes off terribly. So many people are testifying about Leo's temper. He smashes things, screams at Michelle, gets violent with her. I have to think that after listening to this part of the state's case, the jury has already decided that Leo is a bad husband and maybe even a bad person. But Leo isn't on trial for that. John Aguero is going to have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Leo killed Michelle. And with his next witness, Aguero introduces the one piece of evidence he has that could potentially link Leo to the crime. Alice Scott, who Aguero calls the busybody of the neighborhood, takes the stand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's a neighbor. I thought she was a pretty nice lady, and she would have no reason to try to hurt me any. She must have seen something.

[Gilbert King]

Alice Scott tells the jury that in the early morning hours of February 25, she looked out her bathroom window and. And she did see something. She says she saw Leo carry out something heavy from his trailer and put it in the back of the Mazda. Alice is careful to say that she doesn't know what Leo was carrying. But Aguero ties it together with a question. You didn't know that he might be carrying a body out? No, Alice answers. But she takes Aguero's cue and Alice starts calling the heavy object the body. Alice also claims that she saw Leo return to the trailer the next morning with a carpet cleaner. He took it in the house, Alice says, and he had the door open and he was cleaning the carpet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What would her motive have been.

[Gilbert King]

Other.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Than just to report what she saw?

[Gilbert King]

Susie Shaddlecotte, the local reporter, watched Alice Scott's testimony intently in the courtroom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, she didn't have a dog in this house. She didn't really know those people that well. And there was no reason for her to try to fabricate something that didn't happen or that she didn't actually see. So, you know, I think that made her testimony pretty powerful.

[Gilbert King]

When it's the defense's turn to question Alice Scott, Jack Edmond asks her if she can remember the exact night this happened. She tells Edmund that she can't remember dates. But Alice says her sister in law, Linda Sells, who lives next door, also saw Leo emerge with the heavy object. They'd even chatted about it right there across the fence that divided their yards, Alice says. So Alice's sister in law, Linda Sells, is called to the stand. She says she and Alice did see Leo carrying something heavy to the Mazda. But Linda says this happened a week or two before the night Michelle disappeared. She says she knows this because she did not talk with Alice on the night Michelle went missing. When I came to this part of the trial transcript, I had to stop to make sure I just read that correctly. The state's whole case hinges on the testimony of its star witness, Alice Scott. Aguero must have hoped his next witness would get on the stand and corroborate Alice's testimony. Instead, Linda Sells has directly contradicted her. As Leo watches Linda Sells on the stand, something clicks in his memory.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I remember then carrying an amplifier out of my house and placing it in the back of my car. And you might not have known what I was carrying because, you know, I did carry it out and it was a big amp and I carried it out and I put it in the back of my car. But you knew it was not. You knew it wasn't a body. There's no way you could have mistaken an amp for a body. And the night that Michelle was missing. I definitely didn't carry anything out of the house. So you're telling a lie.

[Gilbert King]

If Aguero was phased by seeing Linda Sells contradict the testimony of his star witness, he didn't show it. Besides, he was more focused on another witness, Leo Scofield Sr. His premonition, the one he claimed led him to Michelle's body, has become a major part of Aguero's case.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The thought that he woke up in the night and had this image. And first of all, that ditch is like every other ditch in Polk County. So what took you there? That, as opposed to anywhere else, it just seemed so totally incredulous.

[Gilbert King]

Reporter Susie Shottelcotte was eaten. Eager to hear how Leo Sr. Would do on the stand, she'd already heard his story about a vision leading him to Michelle's body in a drainage canal off State Road 33.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When I first heard that, it's like, oh, come on. I think everybody had that feeling. Because if you've been out on 33, 35 years ago, they had to pipe in sunlight out there. It was out in the middle of nowhere.

[Gilbert King]

Leo Sr. Takes the stand, and John Aguero begins his questioning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, John had a heyday with that. I mean, how can you not just, you know, this vision?

[Gilbert King]

Leo's father knew that his story of a premonition sounded weird and could hurt his son's case. So he attempts to walk back his comments, saying that he didn't recall mentioning a vision from God to anyone. He says he may have, but he just couldn't remember his exact words. But the thing is, his comments were well documented. Multiple witnesses testified to it. And his story about the vision had been recorded in an official police report. From just reading the witness words on the pages, Leo Senior doesn't come across as very credible. And Aguero keeps hammering him. Isn't it true that you went to State Road 33 that day because you knew you were going there to find the body? No, sir, Leo Senior replies. Seeing his dad wither under Aguero's aggressive questioning is painful for Leo. And he can't understand why his father would say that God had led him to Michelle's body.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was like, what the hell is that? We were looking for three days. You know, who's going to believe that? Why would you even say something like that? He wanted to believe God was helping him. And, you know, he knew something was wrong. We all knew something was wrong. We're looking for my wife in ditches. You're not looking in a Ditch thinking everything's okay. I don't even remember what his actual testimony was on the stand. He tried to cleaning it up, and that was the worst thing he could do, you know, because now you got Aguero, who's a master at, you know, twisting your head off, and he did exactly that.

[Gilbert King]

One of the reasons Aguero was so aggressive with Leo Senior is because he's an alibi witness for his son's whereabouts on the night Michelle disappeared. There were times when Leo claimed to be alone with his father looking for Michelle. So if Aguero could show the jury that there's something suspicious about Leo Senior, he's hoping the jury will also reject Leo's alibi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That probably hurt his case more than anything.

[Gilbert King]

This was definitely one of the blacker days for Leo. Seven days after opening arguments, Jack Edmond begins his defense. He calls Leo Schofield Jr. To the standard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My initial reaction was, you know, no good thing comes when you put defendant.

[Gilbert King]

On the stand Judge Charles Davis, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Matter how sincere and convincing he is, if it makes one innocent slip up, it's magnified.

[Gilbert King]

Right off the bat, Leo admits that he had a temper. I had a bad habit of hollering and screaming, and it wasn't beyond me to throw a temper tantrum once in a while, he tells Jack Edmond. And yes, he did knock over a coffee table in his trailer. He also admits to two instances in which he slapped Michelle. But he never punched her, he says, and he never dragged her by the hair up any flight of stairs. Edmund leads Leo through his actions and movements on the night Michelle disappeared, and Leo tells the same story he always tells to police and defense attorneys. It never changes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Foreign hey, it's Karen and Georgia, and we just celebrated our 500th episode of My Favorite Murder. That's 500 podcasts filled with true crime comedy and some light girl math. We're about to podcast for you. Watch this. We have to think of something to say after welcome every week. And we're doing it every week week for 10 years.

[Gilbert King]

Almost 10 years. 10 years.

[Georgia Hardstark]

10.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what 500 episodes sounds like. New episodes every Thursday. Listen to my favorite murder on the.

[Gilbert King]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm Sheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7. Zone 7 ain't a place. It's a way of life. I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't. We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving These crazy crimes. Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims, family members. Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

[Gilbert King]

In 2020, a group of young women in a tidy suburb of New York.

[Karen Kilgariff]

City found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone was posting photos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was just me naked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, not me, but me with someone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Else'S body parts on my body parts that looked exactly like my own. I wanted to throw up. I wanted to scream.

[Gilbert King]

It happened in Levittown, New York. But reporting the series took us through the darkest corners of the Internet and to the front lines of a global battle against deepfake pornography. This should be illegal, but what is this? This is a story about a technology that's moving faster than the law and about vigilantes trying to stem the tide. I'm Margie Murphy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I'm Olivia Carville.

[Gilbert King]

This is Levittown, a new podcast from I iHeart podcasts Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope. Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gilbert King]

When prosecutor John Aguero gets his chance to question leo. It's Monday, March 12th 20th. Aguero had the weekend of St. Patrick's Day to prepare for his cross examination. He's feeling lucky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was going to do cross right after lunch. And I remember seeing him when we were getting ready to go in the courtroom and I overheard somebody saying, john, you ready? He said, I've been ready for this for weeks. And it was just the tone in his voice. You could tell. It's like, let me at him.

[Gilbert King]

Aguero approaches the young man he arrested almost a year before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't have any training on how to speak to people. I've never been on trial before. I've never had my life so exposed and, and so exaggerated and manipulated and all that. So I'm sitting there and I'm scared to death as it is.

[Gilbert King]

Leo focuses on answering Aguero's questions accurately. But he feels that he isn't connecting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To the jury and that, that is, that is a problem of this case. My short spokenness, my inability to open up. But how do you do that? How do you do that when you know all this stuff is wrong, but these people are not going to believe you anyway? And he's the homeboy hero? It's almost impossible.

[Gilbert King]

Aguero begins his questioning, and Leo consents that this Prosecutor is prepared. He's challenging Leo on everything from the number of times he slapped Michelle to the phone calls he made when Michelle went missing. And Leo can feel the eyes of the jury on him. But Leo isn't tripped up by anything Aguero asks, and his answers are consistent. Aguero keeps the pressure on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My emotions were insecure, fear, and he played on that. Aguero knew that. He was masterful in that. And it's a very unfortunate thing because I look back at it, kicking myself now, what do I have to fear in this man? Why not? These people are nothing to me. This is the story. Tell the story, you know, tell them the truth. And don't give him the ability to keep berating you, cutting you off and painting this picture, you know, with his own strokes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Leo was trying really hard to hold his composure, but it was tough. John was making it really, really tough because John was just all over him. He was just calling him on absolutely everything. And I think, if memory serves me, toward the end, Leo was starting to get pretty rattled, you know, because John was just telling him, we're not buying it. We're not buying this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I remember sitting there and looking at my mother and she was just crying. The sad reality is I was waiting for someone to just rescue me.

[Gilbert King]

Once John Aguero is done with Leo, Jack Edmond rests his case for the defense. Aguero gives the first closing argument.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's what I kind of coined myself, the 12 days of Christmas closing argument. He would be, if you want, and I think he did it on this one. If you want to believe that this man is innocent, then you have to believe that this is a coincidence. And then you bring up the next one and say, if you want to believe that he didn't do it, then you have to believe that this this and this that both of these are coincidences. And then he go all the way down the list.

[Gilbert King]

His closing might have been persuasive, but it's also full of misstatements. At one point, Aguero tells the jury to imagine Michelle screaming, no, Leo, don't stab me. Alice Scott said no such thing on the stand. As for Alice's sister in law, Linda Sells, he simply pretends that her testimony about which night they saw Leo carrying something heavy didn't contradict Alice's statements. He approaches many of the discrepancies in testimony this way and finds a way to tie them up quickly and confidently. Aguero then argues that it was no premonition or vision that led Leo Sr. To Michelle's body. He says Leo's father knew exactly where to find her because he dumped her there. And Leo and his parents were never out searching for Michelle. They are liars, he says. They were making phone calls and driving around town to craft a false alibi. There's no question Aguero was in command of his case against Leo Schofield. He's a tough act to follow, even for someone as charismatic as the Southern gentleman in the Western Cut suit, who, with the roles of lifesavers, Jack Edmond rises for his closing and drives home the point that there is no physical evidence connecting Leo Scofield to the murder of his wife. It's an entirely circumstantial case built around bad character evidence and the testimony of Alice Scott, which he argues cannot be trusted. In the state's rebuttal, Aguero concludes with a dramatic statement. He points at Leo and tells the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jury, you don't have to lock up your 18 year old daughters at night because we have the murderer sitting right over there. And the reason that was so bothersome to me is that all the things I had to answer for and try to swim through and present myself in this ridiculous suit, this ridiculous haircut to a jury who's going to ultimately decide my fate. The one thing I'm not allowed by law to tell them is that this same confident guy that's standing before you, baking me and acting like he's so sure is the same one that offered me immunity to prosecute my father.

[Gilbert King]

I'm thinking the same thing. If Aguero offered Leo immunity because he's sure it was the father and not the son who killed Michel, why is he still trying to put Leo in the electric chair? Now that it's time for the jury to deliberate, two of the jurors are gone. One was forced to drop off for health reasons and the other had a family emergency. With no alternates, the jury is now down to 10. And now, as only 10 jurors are sent into deliberations, I can't imagine what Edmund was thinking. That's two fewer people on the jury who could have been more sympathetic to Leo's version of events. Of course, the man I wanted to talk to the most about this was Jack Edmond himself. But by the time I was reading the transcripts, he, like John Aguero, had also passed away. The jury deliberates for just four hours, then they return with the verdict.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When the bailiff came in and said, we have a verdict, I remember Jack walking across the room and he was just looking down and shaking his head and saying, that's too soon. That's too soon.

[Gilbert King]

Michelle McCluskey was sitting in the courtroom next to Michelle Schofield's dad, David Somm. She was holding David's hand, shaking, physically shaking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dave's hand was all sweaty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He definitely wanted. Wanted to go through it. We all did. By that time, there was no question. I don't remember anybody not believing in at that point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, you know, I was trying to hold myself together.

[Gilbert King]

The verdict is read. Leo is found guilty of first degree murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I remember when they said he.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was guilty, that we were just relieved.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And happy and for a few minutes, it was a celebration.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Afterwards, there was some level of really deep sadness to know that, yeah, of course the jury found him guilty. He really did this. You know what I mean? Like, there is no more questioning it at all. He did this. Honestly, I think I was numb. Yeah, I know. I know. Honestly, Gilbert, for life of me, I can't remember what I was thinking when the jury was coming out. After the verdict was read, they took me to a holding cell because now I'm going into penalty phase and I'm gonna have to face the death penalty. And in a couple minutes, Edmund had come in through the bars and they let him in the cell with me. And I remember telling him, I don't want to die. And he gave me a hug and he said, I'm not gonna let that happen. And I remember telling him, then I can't even cry. I was so numb and beat down and disgusted that I don't think sadness was the reaction. For me, for me, it was. I was incredulous that this could even be taking place. It was just so beyond my ability to imagine that I would personally be facing something like that.

[Gilbert King]

When Leo is brought back into court the next morning for sentencing, he addresses the jury in his cheap, mismatched suit and his jailhouse haircut. This is what he says. It's hard for me to sit up here and plead with you for my life because you already found me guilty. You've already taken it away. I'm telling you, you're making a mistake, a big mistake. I'm not guilty. I didn't kill my wife. I'm asking, please don't take it. I can show you. I can prove it to you. I don't even know what to say to you. I really don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I simply told the jury, you made a mistake. You know, I'm not guilty. I did not do it. And I think I was even trying to tell him I can prove it to you. I was so desperate to. Something wasn't told right. We didn't get all the story out.

[Gilbert King]

The jury deliberates, then hands their recommendation to the judge. John Aguero, the prosecutor with the old sparky tie clasp, has failed to send Leo Schofield to the electric chair. Leo is sentenced to life in prison. The first time Kelsey and I finish reading through the transcript, all we can think about is this one moment in Jack Edmonds closing argument when he reminds the jury that police never found any fingerprints in the car that match Leo or Michelle Schofield. And then Edmund asked the jury this question. Wouldn't you like to know if someone else's fingerprints were in that Mazda? The painful truth is someone else's fingerprints were found in the Mazda and the fingerprint evidence was right there for Jack Edmond to see. If Edmund had just looked into these prints, he would have been able to see that someone had been in the car. Someone who was yet to be identified. Someone who might have known something about Michelle's murder. So Leo's right. They didn't get the whole story out. And that's what Kelsey and I set out to do. Get the whole story. The story of Michelle's murder doesn't end with Leo's conviction. In fact, the story is just beginning. Bone Valley is a production of Lava for Good podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One. Our executive producers are Jason Flom and Kevin Werdes. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer. Brit Spangler is our sound designer. Roxandra Guidi is our editor. Fact checking by Maximo Anderson. Our producer and researcher is Kelsey Decker. Our theme song, the One who's Holding the Stars is performed by Lebob and the Truth. It was written by Leo Schofield and Kevin Herrick in Florida's Hardy Correctional Institution. Bone Valley is written and produced by by me, Gilbert King. You can follow the show on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter Va for Good. To see photos and documents from our investigation and exclusive behind the scenes content, visit lavaforgood.com hey, it's Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we just celebrated our 500th episode of My Favorite Murder. That's 500 podcasts filled with true crime comedy and some light girl math. We're about to podcast for you.

[Gilbert King]

Watch this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have to think of something to say after welcome every week. And we're doing it every week for 10 years.

[Gilbert King]

Almost 10 years. 10 years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

10. That's what 500 episodes sounds like. New episodes every Thursday. Listen to my favorite murder on the.

[Gilbert King]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On this podcast, Incels, we unpack an emerging mindset.

[Gilbert King]

I am a loser. If I was a woman, I wouldn't date me either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women at a deadly tipping point.

[Gilbert King]

Tomorrow is the day of retribution. The day in which I will have my revenge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is Incels. Listen to season one of Incels on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7. Zone 7 ain't a place. It's a way of life. Now, this ain't just any old podcast, honey. We're going to be talking to family members of victims, detectives, prosecutors, and some nationally recognized experts that I have called on over the years to help me work these difficult cases. I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't. We started the this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes. Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims, family members. Come be a part of my Zone 7 while building yours. Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.