Chapter 3 | A Knife in the Heart of My Freedom

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bone Valley, S5E3 — "A Knife in the Heart of My Freedom"

Original air date: June 17, 2026
Hosted by: Paul Solotaroff (Lava for Good Podcasts)

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Overview

In this gripping episode of Bone Valley: The Devil's Quarry, host Paul Solotaroff unpacks the pivotal events leading to the wrongful convictions of Anthony DiPippo and Andy Krivak for the 1994 rape and murder of 12-year-old Josette Wright in Carmel, NY. This chapter exposes the coercive tactics, legal failures, and manipulation of witnesses at the heart of their prosecution, while exploring the personal devastation that followed for those ensnared by the criminal justice system.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life Awaiting Trial in County Lockup

• Abuse and Degradation:
  • Anthony DiPippo recounts the “inhumane” conditions he suffered in county jail, facing abuse from both guards and inmates due to the nature of his charges:
    • “The guards and inmates were urinating in my orange juice and at some point I drank that.” (Anthony Depo, 02:03)
  • Chronic illness and a deep sense of not belonging fill Anthony's days, while he wrestles with betrayals—particularly Andy’s coerced confession.

2. Andy Krivak’s Confession Under Duress

• Police Pressure and Coercion:
  • In a clandestine conversation in the jail library, Andy describes being browbeaten for hours, denied basic rights, and eventually handed a fabricated, nine-page statement to sign after a failed polygraph (02:20–04:03).
  • Anthony realizes the same tactic was attempted against him, but his lawyer intervened in time; Andy had no such support:
    • “He was broken by Castaldo and Quick and he was not leaving until he signed that statement.” (Anthony Depo, 03:53)

3. Dom Neglia’s Recantation and Blocked Testimony

• Key Witness Walks Back Story:
  • Dom Neglia, a vulnerable third teen present during the police stop, confesses in the jailhouse visiting room that he lied to the police after relentless harassment and physical abuse:
    • “I feel bad about Andy. I think this is my fault. I made up the story. …I want to take my story back.” (Anthony Depo, 06:19)
  • Dom signs a recantation, but the judge bars him from testifying—deeming his account “too conjectural, too collateral” and denying the jury the chance to hear his truth (11:31–12:08).
    • "So that just stuck the knife in the heart of my freedom. I was done." (Anthony Depo, 12:08)

4. The Prosecution’s “Eyewitness”: Denise Rose

• Character Background and Questionable Motives:
  • Denise, a former friend and drug companion of Anthony’s, emerges as the prosecution’s star witness despite her troubled background and recent criminal charges.
  • The episode details her arrest for a violent road rage incident and subsequent negotiations with police while facing potential felony charges (22:19–24:02).
  • In a 2019 deposition, Denise conveys her brash demeanor:
    • “Everybody does that. So what?” (to mailbox-smashing allegations, 22:58)
• Deal with Police and Statement Evolution:
  • Shortly after her trouble, Denise tells police she “knows something”—using the murder case to negotiate leniency.
  • Cops coerce a confession by escalating possible charges if she didn’t cooperate. Once Denise implicates Anthony and Andy, her own charges disappear (26:16–27:04).

5. Police Misconduct and Evidence Mishandling

• Systemic Failures:
  • Solotaroff and trial depositions highlight repeated rule-breaking:
    • Failure to record interviews.
    • Witness statements not in witnesses' handwriting.
    • Selective documentation—excluding exculpatory accounts and rumors favorable to Anthony and Andy.
    • Cops display gross ignorance of basic legal obligations, e.g., the Brady rule and “impeachment evidence” (34:52–35:48):
      • “Pat Castaldo, senior investigator … thought impeachment pertained to the crimes of the President of the United States and not to the witnesses.” (Narrator, 35:48)

6. Denise Rose’s Testimony at Trial

• Details of Her Story:
  • Denise claims to have witnessed the crime firsthand during a night of drug-fueled mayhem in the van.
  • The episode pokes holes in her story:
    • She forgets, contradicts, or embellishes details (costume jewelry, van’s condition).
    • She admits under oath that the police showed her evidence before she named details, a serious breach of investigative protocol and possible “witness tampering” (41:55–42:17).
  • The van (alleged crime scene) was inoperable at the time of the murder per mechanic testimony (43:14–43:31).
    • “The van couldn’t have been operational because it had a crack drive shaft. …so it was inoperable on the night in question.” (Anthony Depo, 43:14)

7. Other Witnesses and Lack of Forensics

• Recantations and Contradictions:
  • Adam Wilson, another supposed eyewitness, recants on the stand, describing threats and a marathon 12-hour interrogation (44:52–45:22).
  • Bill McGregor, another teen, claims he was asleep during the murder.
• No Physical Evidence:
  • Despite a supposed violent crime in a small space, there’s no DNA, blood, hair, or physical evidence in the van—“an absence of evidence” that baffles even the police (46:03).
    • "I couldn't understand how there could be absence of evidence." (Bill Quick, 46:03)

8. Conviction and Impact

• Trial Outcome:
  • The jury, swayed by Denise’s detailed (if tainted) testimony, convicts Anthony of first-degree rape and second-degree murder (46:24–46:38).
  • Anthony addresses Josette’s mother at sentencing:
    • "I said to Susan Wright, I'm sorry you think I killed your daughter. Then I wouldn't stop fighting until you see I'm innocent." (Anthony Depo, 47:03)
  • As Anthony is led away, media characterize him as unremorseful. Meanwhile, the real killer remains free (47:43–48:07).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On jail conditions:

  • “The guards and the inmates were urinating in my orange juice and at some point I drank that.”
    —Anthony Depo (02:03)

• On coerced confession:

  • “Andy said that when the cops brought him in, they browbeat him for hours... As Andy sat there sobbing, Castaldo put a statement in front of him… he was broken by Castaldo and Quick and he was not leaving until he signed that statement.”
    —(Narrator & Anthony Depo, 02:20–03:53)

• On Dom Neglia’s recantation:

  • “I made up the story. ... and that you guys killed this girl. And I want to take my story back.”
    —Dom Neglia recounted by Anthony Depo (06:19)

• On judge barring recantation:

  • "He denied the application to use Dominic Neglia. ... That just stuck the knife in the heart of my freedom. I was done."
    —Anthony Depo (11:31–12:08)

• On police investigative failures:

  • “Pat Castaldo, senior investigator … thought impeachment pertained to the crimes of the President of the United States and not to the witnesses.”
    —Paul Solotaroff (35:48)

• On fabricated details:

  • "Billy Quick showed me the earring and the pendant ... The brown jacket was in there, the shoes, the jeans and the earring, the pendant. T-shirt."
    —Denise Rose (41:55–42:17)

• On trial aftermath:

  • "Now I gotta go to state prison as a rapist, a child, a pedophile, very deep. So I'm like, well, it..."
    —Anthony Depo (47:38)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:03] – Anthony describes jail conditions and psychological impact of false imprisonment.
• [03:53] – Andy’s confession under duress as detailed by Anthony.
• [06:19] – Dom Neglia confesses to his false statement and desire to recant.
• [11:31–12:08] – Judge denies use of Dom Neglia's recantation at trial.
• [22:58] – Denise Rose’s criminal history/motive highlighted in deposition.
• [26:16–27:04] – Denise's deal with police and disappearance of her charges.
• [34:52–35:48] – Deposition reveals detectives’ ignorance of Brady rule and impeachment evidence.
• [41:55–42:17] – Denise admits police showed her evidence before statement.
• [43:14–43:31] – Mechanic testifies van was inoperable on the night Josette disappeared.
• [44:52–45:22] – Adam Wilson recants coerced testimony in court.
• [46:03] – Detective expresses confusion at the absence of forensic evidence.
• [46:24–46:38] – Anthony convicted; reaction in court.
• [47:03] – Anthony addresses Josette’s mother at sentencing.

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Episode Tone

The episode is unflinching, raw, and emotionally charged—mirroring Anthony's bitterness, Denise's defiance, and Solotaroff's investigative skepticism. Candid dialogue, dark humor, and a strong sense of injustice pervade the narrative, underscoring the personal and systemic tragedies behind wrongful convictions.

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Conclusion

"A Knife in the Heart of My Freedom" exposes the fragility of American justice through the collapse of protocols, coercion of vulnerable witnesses, and the haunting cost for those wrongly condemned. The episode sets the stage for uncovering who truly killed Josette Wright, while raising urgent questions about the reliability of our justice system.

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Transcript

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[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

This series includes sensitive and potentially distressing topics, including sexual assault and abuse involving children. Listener discretion is advised. Anthony Depo and Andy Krivak were in county lockup for months, waiting separate trials. They weren't the most popular inmates on the block, given their charges, the rape and murder of a 12 year old girl.

[Anthony Depo]

One thing that's very hard for me to say is during this period of time, the guards and the inmates were urinating in my orange juice and at some point I drank that.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Anthony had acute gastritis from the rancid food in jail and his scalp broke out in rashes from bathing in filthy water. More intolerable still was knowing he didn't belong there. It had nothing to do with Josette's murder and knew Andy had no part in it either. Still, it was Andy who'd signed the confession that put him in this barrel. And so Anthony burned to get his best friend alone and soon to find out why he betrayed him. Eventually, they met in the jailhouse library. There were guards nosing around, so they spoke in coded whispers. Andy said that when the cops brought him in, they browbeat him for hours and Bill Quick screamed in his face while one of them brandished his gun. They refused over and over to let him speak to a lawyer or to use the john or even call his father. And then they sent him in with their lie detector guy, an older cop named Dan Stevens. Stevens wired him up and interrogated him for hours, then told him he failed the polygraph. As Andy sat there sobbing, Castaldo put a statement in front of him. A nine page statement written out by Bill Quick. As Anthony listened to his friend, he had a shock of recognition. It was exactly what the cops had tried to do to him before his lawyer burst in and stopped them. But Andy had no lawyer on retainer

[Anthony Depo]

and he was broken by Castaldo and Quick and he was not leaving until he signed that statement.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

So now here they both were, equally fucked. Nine months passed and his trial was up first.

[Anthony Depo]

March 1997. Krivak picks his jury.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Three weeks later, on April 16, that jury came back with a verdict. Anthony paced in the common area waiting on Andy's return from court.

[Anthony Depo]

The day he came back, he's like, yo, I blew y'.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

All.

[Anthony Depo]

When a guy says they blew, that's street talk. For I lost. For the trial, I blew trial. I remember he was walking right under the tv, just walked right by and said that shit.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Anthony felt those words in the pit of his stomach.

[Anthony Depo]

I'm like, doesn't look good for me. Now they know Andrew Krivak guilty of the murder and the media was against me. Everybody was angry and they knew how to use that. The newspaper was putting my picture with the biggest beard that I had against the girl when she was 7. So you got this tiny, tiny girl, this big, big man. Everybody had an interest somehow in it, and everybody wanted and believed that was me.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Next it was Anthony's turn on the docket. He felt doomed in advance. And suddenly, weeks before his trial started,

[Anthony Depo]

one of the biggest things in this case happens. I get a call to the visiting room. Dominick Neglia walks through. All 350 pounds of him.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Dom Neglia, you'll recall, was the third kid in the car when Putnam cops caught them with angel dust. You'll also recall those cops pulled them over moments after Dom stopped to make a phone call. Only Dom knows if he actually dialed his grandma, as he claimed, or if he made that call to tip off the cops. In any case, Dom, it's Something you want to get off his chest now?

[Anthony Depo]

And he sits down and he's basically on the edge of tears. He's like, I feel bad about Andy. I think this is my fault. I made up the story. And he said, I told the police that you said to me these things you didn't say to me and that you guys killed this girl. And I want to take my story back.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Tom spilled the story of how the cops coerced him. They showed up unannounced at his school, dragged him out of his special needs class so often that the principal banned them from campus. So then they pulled the same stunt at Olive Garden where he worked after school. But the cops roused at him so often there, the manager fired him. And that wasn't all, said Dom. Then there was the physical stuff. He said Castaldo hit him in the back of the head with his handcuffs. Down on all fours, Dom screamed he would sue. But Castaldo looked at him and laughed. I don't know what you're talking about. We just saw you fall off your chair. Oh, that's rich. Because Castaldo was finally caught on camera years later, beating and stomping and choking a defendant whose hands and feet were padlocked. Castaldo lied through his teeth, said the attack never happened, but it was captured in glorious living color on the county's own security cameras. In the end, Dominic says he'd finally caved. To make the torture stop, he fed the cops some names he'd heard Anthony say and said those guys were involved in Josette's murder. But now said Dahme wanted to take it all back, to stand up in court and tell the truth, tell a jury that none of what he told the cops was true. No sooner did Dom leave the jailhouse than Anthony called his lawyer. The lawyer had Dom write and sign a recantation.

[Anthony Depo]

And it was all in writing. I got you. I'm going fucking home.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Do you hear my madness? Laughter hides my fears Sorrow's depths are

[Anthony Depo]

endless

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

in this valley of tears. This is the devil's quarry. By the time the cops were done with Dom, he'd lost count of the times they dragged him in to talk. He'd also lost count of the stories he told them about the night of Josette's murder. The details changed wildly every time he opened his mouth. But the kernel of those stories, Anthony and Andy's involvement, became the crux of the cases against them.

[News Reporter]

The charges against 21 year old Anthony Dipipo are first degree rape and second degree murder. Dipo's trial Is being held in the putnam county courthouse in Carmel. It's alleged deppo and another man, 19 year old Andrew Krivick, killed 12 year old Josette Wright on October 4, 1994.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Anthony's case was tried in Carmel in the courthouse on the town's main road.

[Anthony Depo]

It was the old courthouse, so it looked like the courthouse from a time to kill. It was like, you know, high ceilings, wood pillars, portraits of white men from the 1800s and you know, and then also the judge looked like he was a white man from the 1800s.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Judge Bratz, once again, big Larry came through for Anthony. He paid over 67 grand up front to a primetime lawyer. His name was Bob leader and he had a certain swagger, having a reputation for being the rare attorney in putnam county who'd won a murder case.

[Anthony Depo]

Bob leader looks like Saddam Hussein. Like you remember Saddam smoking a cigarette. You know, just calling people. Bob leader's face was the same face. I trusted him. I felt like I had a shot.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

At a pretrial hearing, Leiter argued his motion to call big dom as a witness as the original accuser. He argued dom was essential to the case.

[Anthony Depo]

He did try, really try to get Dominic negley on the stand. But the judge was just wasn't having it. He denied the application to use Dominic neglia.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Why did that judge, an old sawhorse named bill bratz, bar Dom from testifying? He said dom's testimony was quote, too conjectural, too collateral. That it didn't seem his word reasonable. And so he decided what the jury would weigh rather than leave that task up to the jury.

[Anthony Depo]

So that just stuck the knife in the heart of my freedom. I was done.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

On day one of Anthony's trial, the Putnam d. A went first. He told the jury a version of the story that Dom told a group of teens hanging out at the gas station in town. A night of partying gone off the rails in a van owned by Andy's dad. And the rape and murder of a 12 year old girl by Andy and Anthony. The DA declared he had a direct eyewitness who would testify to that. Her name was Denise rose.

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[Sam J]

Hey, what's up y'?

[Bill Quick]

All?

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It's your girl, Sam J.

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[Denise Rose]

Sir, would you raise your hand please do some loose fair that the testimony

[Commercial Announcer]

you're about to give will be the

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

[Denise Rose]

So I'll be God, I know when

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

I be ready before we hear From Denise, the one person who claims to have seen Josette's murder. We're going to jump forward 20 years to an inquiry launched by Anthony's lawyers. The focus of that inquiry, the handling of the Josette Wright murder by the Putnam Sheriff's office. Or to put a fine point on it, the handling of that case by investigator Castaldo and his partner. Quick. Weeks of depositions were taken in that probe. The lead lawyer for Anthony's team was Nick Preston.

[Nick Bruston]

Fair to say this was the biggest case of your career?

[Denise Rose]

Yes, sir.

[Nick Bruston]

Not even close, right?

[Pat Castaldo]

Unfortunately, no.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

That's Pat Castaldo, the Elvis loving bruiser.

[Bill Quick]

It's.

[Nick Bruston]

It was. It was the horrific murder and rape of a 12 year old girl.

[Pat Castaldo]

Rape? A murder of a 12 year old child.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

As bad as it gets, I would think.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So, so.

[Nick Bruston]

But your job, that's all you were doing?

[Pat Castaldo]

Yes, sir.

[Nick Bruston]

Every day, all day?

[Pat Castaldo]

Yes. Once. Once it turned into a murder case.

[Denise Rose]

Yes, sir.

[Commercial Announcer]

All right.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

I'll remind you that Castaldo had never worked a murder before. Right from the start, it showed.

[Nick Bruston]

That was your first murder case.

[Denise Rose]

Yes, sir.

[Bill Quick]

I did not have the experience. Hands on. I was not a person that investigated a lot of homicides.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

And this is Bill Quick talking. He was co lead detective in Josette's murder and the one who hand wrote all the witness statements from teens allegedly in the van when Josette died. Quick was another old school lawman. Though with his brush mustache and dustbul complexion, the lawman he most resembled was Wyatt Earp.

[Bill Quick]

Well, I have certain rules I live by. I've lived by these rules all my life and I brought that into law enforcement.

[Nick Bruston]

What are those rules you live by?

[Bill Quick]

Those rules are basically that you do the right thing all the time. Everything that you can do to do it properly. You can't make assumptions.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

According to Castaldo, the night the boys were busted for pcp, Dom volunteered a tip about the murder.

[Pat Castaldo]

Dominic Neglia told me about the van and the people that were there. And when he gave me the name of the people I wanted to speak to. These people. Maybe they had information involving what could have happened to Giusette.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

The details of Dom's story would vary wildly over time, but the gist of it was this. On the night of Josette's murder, she was in the back of the van owned by Andy's dad. With her in that van were Anthony and Andy and three other Putnam teens.

[Pat Castaldo]

All the street kids, they were all

[Bill Quick]

trouble, every single one of them.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

The cops were especially interested in one of those troubled teens, a girl named Denise Rose.

[Commercial Announcer]

Someone swear that the testimony you're about to do will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

[Denise Rose]

Yes.

[Commercial Announcer]

Thank you.

[Nick Bruston]

Good morning, miss Rose.

[Pat Castaldo]

Good morning.

[Nick Bruston]

Have you ever had your deposition taken before?

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Anthony and Denise had been in grade school together, and then in high school. Their taste for drugs brought them closer.

[Anthony Depo]

Denise Rose was somebody in my same grade. I just knew Denise Rose from being in school and I kind of became more friendly with her during high school.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

High school's generally when the stoners find each other. And like Anthony, Denise had zero fear. She jumped into a car to prowl the South Bronx alone. A short white girl looking for crack cocaine on some of the deadliest streets in America.

[Anthony Depo]

I mean, we mutually enjoyed doing drugs and we mutually enjoyed going get drugs. And then we would go to kind of cool places while we were doing drugs and go to the beach and go to the cliffs overlooking 84. And like, you know, you smoke and you, you look out and it's kind of like, you know, you got like a pretty background to get eye to. You know, when you're tripping or you're smoking something, you know, you want to be in kind of these settings that are kind of nice.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Denise had him over to her folks house for dinner. But it never turned romantic, says Anthony, except for one druggie night when they hooked up.

[Anthony Depo]

I had moments of weakness and she was right there. I had a lot of hormones going on. I needed to get rid of them. But then I got on high and then I'm like, what am I doing? I'm saying I'm sorry, I can't. And then I'm like, well, I gotta go to this club tonight, but I don't want to be hanging out with you. So I put her down, and I think I put her down a little too hard.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

A few weeks after he told Denise he didn't want to hang with her, Anthony tried to patch things up. Not because he'd been wracked by guilt, but because he needed a ride to the city. That went about as well as you'd expect.

[Anthony Depo]

I tried to call her and she was very dismissive. And I thought it was because of the way I kind of like broke it off with her.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

What he didn't know was Denise was talking to the cops or that n Carmel payback really is a bitch. Twenty years later, Denise was one of the people deposed by Anthony's lawyers. Here she is in 2019 under questioning from Nick Breaston.

[Denise Rose]

When someone says to you, do you remember how many times you smoke crack? I wanted to say to him, do you remember how many times you wiped

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

your ass since there were no recordings made at Anthony's trial? We're using the tape from this deposition to give you a sense of Denise's testimony, but to properly introduce her. Here's some facts about Denise's involvement with Anthony's case. Castaldo and Quick hauled her in the first time on April 2, 1996. For perspective, that was five months after Josette's body was found and five months after Anthony and Andy were busted for PCP. Castaldo and Quick talked to her for many hours that day, but her statement, as Bill Quick wrote it down, made zero mention of a murder. At the end of it, Castaldo told her to keep her nose clean. Spoiler alert, she didn't. The very next day, Denise lost her shit. She was driving with some friends when she saw a girl she didn't like opposite.

[Denise Rose]

She had a history with me.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

That girl named Elena was driving the car in front of her on the road. Per a report Elena made to police, Denise chased Elena through several towns and then battle rammed the rear end of her car. Elena told the cops that Denise got out of her car, bashed in her window. Denise denied this, but. Well, here's Bruston asking about her history with ball bats.

[Nick Bruston]

You had gotten into some trouble before that by driving around and having you or people in your car smashing mailboxes with a baseball bat, Correct?

[Denise Rose]

Everybody does that. So what?

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Denise was promptly arrested for ramming Elena's car and hit with four charges for it. One of those charges was a felony. She could have gotten seven years for that. Yet somehow, the day after she rammed the girl's car, Denise was stopped yet again in her car. This time, the cops got her for erratic operation of her vehicle. She failed a field sobriety test, was arrested on the spot for dui. That night in a lockup, Denise made a big commotion.

[Denise Rose]

I was in there in a paper suit, and I was screaming at whoever was at the desk, I know something you don't know. And I said about. I guess it was around 2 in the morning. I said, I want to speak to officer or investigator Castaldo right now.

[Nick Bruston]

So after you got arrested, one of the things you said was, get Castaldo here because I have more information to give him.

[Sam J]

Correct?

[Denise Rose]

Yes. I was trying to say, let me out of here because I know about a murder. I knew the.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

So Castaldo got out of bed and met with her in lockup. But according to both of them, they didn't talk about a murder. Denise says he Was only there a few minutes.

[Denise Rose]

Three minutes. Are you kidding me? Three minutes is not enough time to talk about a murder.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Castaldo agrees they spoke that night, but not about Josette's murder. He says he woke up late at night to serve her a restraining order from Elena.

[Sam J]

To do that.

[Pat Castaldo]

I went in the back. It was seconds. I went in the back, she was there. You're asking me to remember something from way back. The best of my knowledge, I went there, she was giving the papers, and

[Denise Rose]

I was out of there.

[Pat Castaldo]

I did not have a conversation. Okay?

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

There's no tape of that encounter or scribble notes, so no way to know what they did discuss.

[Nick Bruston]

And by the way, Denise Rose never asked you for any favors, correct?

[Pat Castaldo]

No, sir.

[Nick Bruston]

And you never offered her any favors, correct?

[Pat Castaldo]

No, sir.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

But here's what we do know. Several hours after they met lockup, Denise's bail was erased. She was allowed to go home in a day or two after that, Castaldo says he was puttering around Carmel when he had an epiphany.

[Pat Castaldo]

This I do remember. We were driving down on Fair street and I said to myself, we have to call Denise falls back. I remember we were driving down Fair street and I just said, I need to speak to her again. I just felt I needed to talk to her again. I thought she may have some more information.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

The truth is, he and Quick spoke to her many times after that. And a couple of weeks later, according to Denise, she finally just sort of

[Denise Rose]

cracked myself anymore, okay? And I figured I didn't tell him the whole truth. So I better go there as soon as possible and tell them before I explode inside. I can't live with this. And the family needs to know that. Josette's family needs to know. It's not fair to them, okay? I. I can't deal this. I have to get this off my chest.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

And so three weeks after she first talked to the cops, Denise met with Castaldo and Quick again. Castaldo says he got things started.

[Pat Castaldo]

I said, denise, I know what happened. I said, I know what happened to just that. Right, Denise? And right after I said that, she turns around. She banged. She says they raped, they tied, they gagged, and they dumped her in the woods.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Quick wrote out her statement that day. It said that Denise witnessed the rape and murder of Josette Wright. But what was omitted from that statement was something Castaldo said moments before she agreed to sign it.

[Pat Castaldo]

They said, you can get 25 years to light if you. If you're part of this crime.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

And so lickety split. And he signed that statement and poof, all of her charges went away.

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[Ari Chambers]

I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.

[Sam J]

Hey, what's up y'? All? It's your girl, Sam J.

[Ari Chambers]

And we're the hosts of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast From Together and iHeart Women's Sports.

[Sam J]

Because, let's be real, women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days.

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timeline, and the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week.

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We'll give you our takes, our debates, and probably a few disagreements.

[Ari Chambers]

We'll talk to athletes, celebrate big moments, and get into what's happening on and off the field, court, track and beyond.

[Sam J]

Because we're not just interested in what happened, we're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. So if you're already a fan or

[Ari Chambers]

you're just getting into the game, there's a seat for you right here.

[Sam J]

Listen to Everyone Watches Women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hey, I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that. Together. We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared How she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming.

[Sam J]

I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer cancer,

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

and that was more difficult.

[Commercial Announcer]

There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety.

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Olympic champ Shawn Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me.

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[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

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Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

With Denise in hand, the cops chase the other teens, Dom named. They hauled in Andy Kack again, but this time they threatened and coerced him for hours, then tricked him into signing a false confession, a confession accusing Anthony of Josette's murder. And finally, they arrested Anthony Depipo. By then, there was no need to coerce or trick him. They had statements from four of his friends. Now, if all the cops had done was coerce these kids, there's a real chance that none of this comes to light. Cops in America coerce confessions all the time. And I would know. I've reported dozens of such cases over the years. But in this case, Castaldo and Quick were just getting started because, remember, they had no forensics to bring to court, so the heat was really on them to make a murder charge stick. So they bent or broke the law in a dozen different ways. Here's a major for instance. It's standard procedure for cops to record interviews in cases involving serious crimes. Even back in the 90s, Putnam county had tape recorders to use without witnesses knowledge.

[Bill Quick]

But for these cops, we had audio tapes, but we didn't use them. It was just the way I. I did things.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Ruston, Anthony's lawyer, pounced on that point.

[Nick Bruston]

The best way to record a witness interview or a suspect interview is the tape record.

[Pat Castaldo]

No, I disagree with that.

[Nick Bruston]

You disagree with that?

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Okay.

[Nick Bruston]

You don't recall ever being trained on that?

[Pat Castaldo]

Being trained?

[Bill Quick]

Yes, sir.

[Pat Castaldo]

No, I was trained that way. I don't think that's the best way.

[Nick Bruston]

Okay, so let's stick with training first.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Which brings us to point 2. In COP protocol, where no recording devices are available, standard practice is to have witnesses write out statements in their own words and handwriting. But again, that wasn't the way Castaldo and Quick did things. Castaldo was the one asking all the questions, and Quick was the one writing the statements.

[Pat Castaldo]

You can understand it. Quick had an excellent penmanship, except that

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

even that wasn't a hard and fast rule. Castaldo and Quick interviewed lots of people over the course of this investigation, and far too often, nothing was written down. For example, they met with Denise many times after she first came into the station. They'd show up at her house to chat with her. But only three of their many sit downs with Denise were memorialized in writing

[Nick Bruston]

during the interview, correct?

[Pat Castaldo]

Sometimes you didn't take notes. Sometimes we just took the statement.

[Nick Bruston]

It sounds like unless a witness gave you a statement, agreed to sign a statement, you didn't necessarily document that that interview was conducted, correct?

[Bill Quick]

Objection. I may have and I may not have. All right, you.

[Nick Bruston]

You use your discretion.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Under oath, Quick admitted that there were things he didn't write down, things that didn't fit his narrative of the case. For example, some of Josette's friends said they saw Josette after October 4, 1994, the day the cops claimed she was raped and murdered. These were people who knew Josette well and who claimed to have talked to her at the Danbury Mall after that date. He wrote down some of these accounts, but Quick admits there were others he dismissed as rumors.

[Bill Quick]

And, you know, it was just utterly ridiculous.

[Nick Bruston]

You didn't write any of those rumors down?

[Bill Quick]

No, because we couldn't. We couldn't verify whether they were true or not.

[Nick Bruston]

Well, you could have. You could have caused them to be.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Okay, so no rumors allowed from local witnesses. Got it. Except there was nothing but rumors to implicate Anthony and Andy, and all those got written down and placed in the final case file. But there's more. Not only did they fail to properly document their probe, Castaldo and Quick pled total ignorance. The most basic laws of evidence. Take for example, the Brady rule. Brady requires cops to turn over any evidence that comes up in the course of investigation that would help the defendant at trial, including information that would disgrunt police officers. It's been the law of the land since 1963, and every cop in America knows about Brady. It's taught from Week 1 at the Academy. Alas, said Castaldo under oath in 2019, that part of his training. Yeah, that part didn't stick. Here he is again, under questioning by Nick Bruston.

[Nick Bruston]

Now, would it be fair to say that you don't recall ever receiving any training on what's called exculpatory evidence or Brady material?

[Pat Castaldo]

No, sir.

[Nick Bruston]

You know, you never heard those terms, right?

[Pat Castaldo]

I've heard the terms, but I don't remember getting training on what do they mean? I mean, I've just heard. I don't know why I couldn't tell you right now.

[Nick Bruston]

Okay. Do you know what exculpatory evidence means?

[Pat Castaldo]

Explain to me.

[Nick Bruston]

I want to know if you know.

[Bill Quick]

No.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Okay, but wait, there's more. In criminal law, there's something called impeachment evidence. Evidence that shows that witnesses in the case may be untruthful or mistaken or unreasonable. Reliable. That, too must be turned over to the defense. Only Castaldo didn't do that either.

[Nick Bruston]

You know what impeachment evidence is?

[Pat Castaldo]

Yes.

[Nick Bruston]

What is impeachment evidence?

[Pat Castaldo]

Well, basically, what they're trying to do to the President of the United States is to impeach him, bring up charges against him.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Yes, you heard that right. Pat Castaldo, senior investigator for the Putnam Sheriff's Office, thought impeachment pertained to the crimes of the President of the United States and not to the witnesses he manipulated to implicate Anthony Di Pipo. Castaldo was the lead detective in the rape murder case of Josette Wright, but as it turns out, he didn't have the least idea how to legally do his job. Having established who the cops and their star witness were, let's jump back to Anthony's trial in 97. Denise Rose, you'll recall, had just taken the stand to tell the jury her version of events. This is what she swore to on the stand. On the night of October 3, 1994, the two boys pulled up to her house. She claimed Andy was at the wheel of his dad's brown van. Anthony was in the passenger seat. She opened the slider to hop in, she says, and there were no seats

[Denise Rose]

in the back when he picked me up from my house.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Sitting on the floor, she said, was 12 year old Josette Wright.

[Denise Rose]

She had on blue jeans, a brown jacket and a white T shirt.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Denise jumped in beside her, she said Andy then drove to the Citgo station in town, where 10 or 12 teens were loitering outside smoking dope and pounding beers in full view of passing cop cars. A few hours later, she said she got back in the van with Andy, Anthony and Josette. Only now they were joined by two other teens, Bill McGregor and Adam Wilson. At that point, said Denise, she thought they were dropping her home. Instead, Andy took off in the other direction, northbound towards Fields Lane.

[Denise Rose]

I wanted to go home, and they didn't take me home. They took me to go kill a girl. Wasn't expecting that,

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Denise says. Andy stopped and parked on Fields Lane. It's a dirt road shortcut to Connecticut. That's bounded on both sides by woods. That night it was as black as tar out there. No street lights, no porch lights from houses, because there were no houses. Not back then, there weren't. Even the moon was dark that night. And as for the van's lights, it's dome lights and track lights. She says they weren't on either. But Denny exclaimed, she saw everything that happened next. She said the boys pulled out some PCP and smoked it in back of the van. And then during a game of Spin the bottle, Andy kissed Josette, said Denise, When Josette resisted and he threw her to the floor, he anked her jeans and underwear over her sneakers.

[Denise Rose]

Her hands were swinging. And then he took her hands and put them like this in front of her.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

She showed jurors how he tied Josette's hands in front of her body.

[Denise Rose]

There was a rope in the van just on the floor somewhere.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

And she claimed Andy shoved Josette's underwear into her mouth, then took her bra and tied it around her head. At which point she said he raped her just inches from Josette. Denise watched this all go down. At some point, she said she protested, leave her alone.

[Denise Rose]

She's just a baby.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

At that point, claimed Denise, Anthony leaned over screaming.

[Denise Rose]

He stood up and said, shut the up with your necks.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

And then, according to Denise, he told

[Denise Rose]

Andy, yo, yo, save some of that for me. It's my turn. Save some of that for me.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

According to Denise, Anthony raped Josette next. And when he stopped, she said Josette wasn't moving.

[Denise Rose]

She was completely lifeless. They wrapped her nylon jacket around her waist, her brown nylon jacket around her waist, and they carried her out.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

She said she sat in the van in silence while the boys carried Josette out the back doors. Denise said she sat there for 15 or 20 minutes till the boys came back without Josette.

[Denise Rose]

And I asked, where's the girl? Someone said, she's sleeping. She passed out. And the other one said, no, her mom's coming to pick her up.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

She claimed Anthony ordered her to keep her mouth shut or she'd be the next one dead. That was her explanation for why she kept mum till Castaldo dragged her in over a year later.

[Nick Bruston]

When drunk, not when.

[Denise Rose]

No, no, no, no, no. I didn't even tell a damn priest. I was petrified. Like, my God, I'm going to die.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Under cross examination, Denise claimed she just sat there after the boys left to bury Josette's body. The girl who cruised the South Bronx to buy crack, who admitted to smashing a cops mailbox with a bat that Girl just sat there and did nothing. Nor did she attempt to flee when the two boys were in the woods. At trial, she conceded the keys were right there in the ignition. All she'd had to do was start the van and drive it straight to the sheriff's office. For all the holes in Denise's story, the jury found her persuasive. In particular, they were struck by the tiny detail she remembered, like the costume jewelry Josette was wearing the night she was in the van. But here's the thing. Denise also told the jury she had help with those details. The cops showed her all their evidence at the station before she signed a statement saying she witnessed Josette's murder.

[Denise Rose]

Billy Quick showed me the earring and the pendant.

[Nick Bruston]

And you said that. I remember that now.

[Denise Rose]

And it was in a. And it came in a brown paper bag. And he said, I'd like to show you a few pieces of jewelry and some other things. And I said, okay. The brown jacket was in there, the shoes, the jeans and the earring, the pendant. T shirt.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

If you're counting. That's the fifth rule those two cops broke. You don't show evidence to a witness. Above all, not before they've given their statement. It's called witness tampering. And then somehow it gets worse.

[Nick Bruston]

Now, on April 2, one of the things that Castaldo did was he took you to the van and he opened the passenger door side so you could look inside it, correct?

[Denise Rose]

Yeah.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

The cops took her down to their parking lot where they had the brown van in custody. They let her look around the van's interior. Once again, strictly forbidden. Oh, and another hole in Denise's story. That van she claimed Josette was killed in, it wasn't even drivable when she went missing. A trial. Anthony's lawyer put on a mechanic to testify to this.

[Anthony Depo]

We put on the mechanic that said the van couldn't have been operational because it had a crack drive shaft. It was on blocks, flat tires. There was a transmission problem, so it was inoperable on the night in question.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

But at Anthony's trial and several decades later, Denise stuck to her story.

[Denise Rose]

People, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Krievac and Dipo.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

So let's recap. Denise claimed she'd witnessed the murder of Josette Wright in a van that couldn't have been driven at a location in the woods with no source of light on a completely moonless night. And what about the other teens allegedly in the van besides Denise and Andy and Anthony and Josette? Both were teens that Anthony knew. One of them was Adam Wilson, a party hearty kid who also sold drugs and caramel. The other was Bill McGregor, a kid from nearby Brewster who was fighting his own battle with drugs. Before the trial, Putnam cops brought both of them in separately. They grilled each of them for many hours, then got them to sign statements the detective quickly wrote out. At Anthony's trial, Adam Wilson took the stand and recanted his statement to those cops. He testified they'd sweated him for 12 straight hours, denied him his right to make a phone call, warned him he'd either swear that he'd seen the murder or be charged as Josette's killer. And so he, like Dom and Andy, claimed that he too signed a statement just to get out of that room. The second he got home though, he called his mother and a lawyer.

[Anthony Depo]

Adam Wilson is strong on the recantation. He had everything to lose and nothing to gain by taking back. Admitting criminal perjury.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Then the state put on Bill McGregor, the other teen who was allegedly in the van the night Josette was murdered. He mumbled, I guess when the D A asked if he'd been in the van van that night, but undercut himself by saying he'd fallen asleep in the front seat. A gang rape and murder had happened two feet behind him, but for McGregor, he saw none of it. But it wasn't just the teens who didn't back Denise's story. The van itself yielded zero clues that a violent rape murder happened there. No DNA whatsoever. No blood, no hair, no skin cells, no fibers. That last fact baffled even the cops.

[Bill Quick]

I couldn't understand how there could be absence of of evidence.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

When the jurors filed out to begin deliberations, Anthony sat there expecting the worst despite the glaring holes in the state's case.

[Anthony Depo]

Going like this with my tie up and down and I'm nervous, I'm trying to catch my breath. Guilty. 5:30pm.

[News Reporter]

That's guilty of first degree rape and second degree murder. Anthony Deppo and another man, Andrew Krivick, were charged with the rape and murder of 12 year old Gisette Wright on October 3, 1994.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Him five weeks later, on the day he was sentenced, Anthony Depo got up to speak. He turned and looked directly at Susan Wright, Josette's mom.

[Anthony Depo]

She's got a big eyes as it is. Angry woman. But her eyes were like three times normal eyes. It was just the way that she. Her anger. If she could have killed me through her eyes, she would have. I said to Susan right I'm sorry you think I killed your daughter. Then I wouldn't stop fighting until you see I'm innocent. And I looked her in the eye when I said it. Now I got to go to state prison as a rapist, a child, a pedophile, very deep. So I'm like, well, it.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

When Anthony walked out of the courthouse that day, he flipped the camera's deuces.

[Commercial Announcer]

Convicted murderer Anthony Depo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum.

[News Reporter]

Susan Wright, Josette's mother, told us the verdict moves her closer to closure in her daughter's death.

[Denise Rose]

If there was something worse than prison, I could. We could do that, would be fine. But that's all we can do is put them away, and they can't hurt anybody else and the other children.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

But Anthony knew something those reporters didn't. That he'd been framed by two lawless detectives. And as for the guy who'd actually killed Josette, he was still out there in the woods, stalking, obsessing and sharpening his knife for another moonless night off Fields Lane. The Devil's Quarry is a production of Lava for Good in association with Rolling Stone Films and Signal Company Number One. I'm your creator and host, Paul Solotarov. Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis and Gilbert King. From Rolling Stone Films, our executive producers are Alexandra Dale and Sean Woods. Our producers are Kara Kornhaber, Hannah Beale, Jackie Pauley, Austin Smith and Kathleen Horn. Our editor is Joel Lovell. Fact checking by Lucy Croning. Our sound designer is Bright Spangler and our engineer is Austin Smith. Additional reporting by Kathleen Horan. Original music arranged and produced by Alexis Quadrado at the Plaza Rojas.

[News Reporter]

Studio.

[Narrator / Paul Solotarov]

Head of marketing and operations, Jeff Clyburn. Publicist Nathaniel Baruch. Art director, Andrew Nelson. Social media manager, Sarah Gibbons. Legal review provided by Clarice Law and Gibson Dunn. Our theme song, the One who's Holding the Stars, is performed by Alexis Quadrado at the Plaza Rojas Studio. Vocals by Rob Reddy of Californicorns. Written by Leo Schofield and Kevin Harrick at the Florida Department of Corrections, Hardy Correctional Facility, SA.