2025 It Books Scorekeeping and December New Releases

Summary

Book Riot – The Podcast

Episode: 2025 It Books Scorekeeping and December New Releases
Date: December 3, 2025
Hosts: Jeff O’Neal & Rebecca Schinsky

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jeff and Rebecca break from their traditional "It Books" format due to a quieter-than-usual December release slate. Instead, they preview a handful of notable December books and conduct a spirited and often self-deprecating review of their “It Book” picks from January to November 2025. The discussion expands to reflections on the nature of book “success,” notable industry news, and a heartfelt tribute to playwright Tom Stoppard. The tone is equal parts bookish banter, genuine literary analysis, and friendly ribbing—a classic Book Riot episode for readers keen on industry insight and end-of-year list discourse.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of December Book Releases

• “As light of a December as I can remember…”
  — Jeff (02:56) laments the lack of major releases, noting “really, it’s this week and next week, because then after that, really things fall off the cliff.” The usual "It Books" slot is slim.
• December is described as “kind of a half month”—publishers often avoid end-of-year releases due to holiday schedules and end-of-year lists being largely set.

2. “Canon Contenders” and Literary Longevity

• Reflecting on their recent “Canon Contenders of 2025” episode from “Zero to Well Read,” Rebecca outlines how they tried to guess which of this year’s big titles might still be read in 5, 10, or even 50 years:
  • “We tried to guess, educated guesses, you know, with our Spidey senses born of years in publishing, which ones we might still be talking about in five or 10 or 20 or maybe even 50 years…” (Rebecca, 03:37)
• There’s agreement that “very few books…actually last and are remembered.” (03:53)

3. The Uniqueness of Books vs. Other Media

• The hosts discuss why certain experiences—like the feel of the “Linklater Trilogy” films or “Ocean’s Eleven”—are hard to translate into books.
  • Rebecca: “I believe that I will probably die wondering if a book could ever feel the way that the Linklater before trilogy feels. And that’s okay with me.” (06:28)
  • Jeff compares screenplay and stage play experiences, arguing some storytelling magic is medium-specific.

4. Tom Stoppard Tribute

• Jeff delivers a moving reflection on Stoppard’s legacy after his passing:
  • “Is this what it felt like to watch Shakespeare in 1599? And I know that’s falutin’…” (Jeff, 08:52)
  • “If you like ideas and you like language, there’s nothing like it.” (Jeff, 12:13)
• Rebecca mentions Ethan Hawke’s Instagram tribute, encapsulating readers’ and actors’ admiration for Stoppard’s craftsmanship. (12:48)
• The segment is full of affection and nostalgia for theater, writing, and creativity.

5. December 2025 New Releases – “Naming Guys” Segment

Jeff runs through notable (if not headline-grabbing) December books and their potential “It” status:

Major Titles Discussed (19:38–30:18)

• American Canto by Olivia Nuzzi
  • Noted for high “discourse” but low expectations; “the gall of calling it American Canto” is roasted.
    • “Can hubris be cringe?” (Jeff, 20:59)
• House of Day, House of Night by Olga Tokarczuk
  • “Anytime you have a Nobel Prize winner out with a book…in this kind of a month, I think that would be this thing.” (Jeff, 22:27)
  • Rebecca recommends “Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead” as another strong Tokarczuk option.
• Somewhere: A Boy and a Bear by Gyles Brandreth
  • 100th anniversary of Winnie the Pooh discussed alongside the more bittersweet reality behind the stories.
  • Jeff: “I’m terrified that the Disneyfication of Winnie the Pooh has taken over the original stories, which I think are superior.” (23:43)
• A Danger to the Minds of Young Girls by Adam Morgan
  • Explores Margaret C. Anderson and her literary/publishing activism; positioned as a significant biography for book and feminist history buffs.
• A Long Game: Notes on Writing Fiction by Elizabeth McCracken
  • Touted as a “writer’s favorite writer,” with anticipation for a sharp craft book.
  • “If anybody can make a craft book interesting, it’s Elizabeth McCracken.” (Rebecca, 27:45)
• The Tower and the Ruin: J.R.R. Tolkien's Creation by Michael Drought
  • Jeff highlights the enduring appeal of Tolkien studies for “enthusiast” readers.
• Every Day I Read: 53 Ways to Get Closer to Books by Hwang Bo Rem
  • Quirky, illustrated, and potentially a good “stocking stuffer” for bookish types.

Rebecca’s Pick

• Feast on Your Life by Tamar Adler
  • “Essays about food and cooking and eating…” (Rebecca, 30:19)
  • Rebecca plans to curl up over the holidays and read these essays: “I will curl up by my Christmas tree at some point in late December and read food essays.” (Rebecca, 31:03)

Dark Academia/Fiction Mentioned

• An Arcane Inheritance by Camilla Cole
  • Pitched for fans of Babel and A Deadly Education; December 30th release prompts a side debate about publication calendar woes.

6. Book Industry Gripes: Publication Schedules & List Fraud

• Jeff and Rebecca both bemoan the confusion created by end-of-year publication dates and how editors fudge “best of” lists by including November releases.
  • Jeff: “Calendar fraud…in their December picks of the month, they included November books.” (33:02)
• Praise for Publishers Weekly’s “however many books deserve to be on the list is how long the list is…” approach. (Rebecca, 33:37)

7. “It Books” 2025 Picks Scorecard: Accountability Time (39:01+)

Jeff and Rebecca revisit their monthly “It Book” picks, celebrate successes, and flag misses, with hindsight from sales, prize lists, and media coverage.

Highlights by Month:

• January:
  • Onyx Storm by Rebecca Yarros – “the right choice” with crowd buzz and special editions. (40:01)
  • We Do Not Part by Hong Kong had more literary endurance than expected.
• February:
  • Death Takes Me by Cristina Rivera Garza – “the most extreme example...of a discrepancy between package and the contents.” (Rebecca, 42:03)
  • In hindsight, One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This should have been the pick (won National Book Award).
• March:
  • A “murderer’s row” of releases, with Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McGonaghy and Buffalo Hunter Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones standing out.
  • Sunrise on the Reaping (Suzanne Collins) called a cultural phenomenon “playing a different game.”
• April:
  • Audition by Katie Kitamura – “I think that was right.” (Rebecca, 45:27)
• May:
  • Relatively “soft month”; Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong gets the Oprah pick.
• June:
  • Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid – “I think that was right. Still.” (Rebecca, 47:24)
• July:
  • Angel Down by Daniel Krause – “it is today the right [pick]…extraordinarily good.” (Jeff, 48:13)
• August:
  • Katabases by RF Kuang – “Indeed. We were correct.” (Rebecca, 50:03)
  • People Like Us by Jason Mott gets a shout-out for its under-appreciated zany/brainy vibes.
• September:
  • Will There Ever Be Another You was chosen, but Mother Mary Comes To Me (Arundhati Roy) wins in hindsight for Memoir of the Year.
• October:
  • Correction: A Guardian and a Thief by Megha Majumdar is the real “It Book” for its critical hits, not Shadow Ticket by Thomas Pynchon.
• November:
  • Palaver by Bryan Washington is tentatively correct; Cursed Daughters also strong.

Final Tally: “We got seven out of eleven. That’s pretty good…I’m not embarrassed by any of the picks, honestly. Better than chance, better than 50. 50 is a real win.” (Rebecca, 56:39)

8. The Problem of Blurb Hyperbole

• Rebecca rails against “blurb inflation,” citing “Not since the Book of Genesis…” on her One Hundred Years of Solitude copy (36:15).
• Jeff: “Caution is always warranted. I like how that just blows past like the Gospels.” (36:32)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the 2025 reading landscape:
  • “I feel like our sense that nothing coalesced is kind of right and we got a little spoiled…” (Jeff, 01:57)
• On book-to-film adaptation magic:
  • “I believe that I will probably die wondering if a book could ever feel the way that the Linklater before trilogy feels. And that’s okay with me.” — Rebecca Schinsky (06:28)
• On Tom Stoppard’s legacy:
  • “If you like ideas and you like language, there’s nothing like it.” — Jeff O’Neill (12:13)
• On publisher/retailer list games:
  • “Calendar fraud…We have to stick together here. We cannot do this.” — Jeff (33:02)
• On “It Books” predictions:
  • “Seven out of eleven. That’s pretty good…I’m not embarrassed by any of the picks, honestly. Better than chance, better than 50.” — Rebecca (56:39)
• On book blurbs:
  • “Not since the Book of Genesis has there been a book that everyone on earth should be required to read…let’s be careful out there.” — Jeff (36:15)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:04 – Ads, sponsor read, show intro
• 01:07–02:40 – “It Books” format abandoned for December; overview of year
• 03:37–05:05 – Canon Contenders and the rarity of literary longevity
• 06:07–07:49 – The impossibility of certain experiences in literature vs. film
• 07:50–13:38 – Tom Stoppard tribute & his influence
• 19:38–30:18 – Rapid-fire rundown of December 2025 releases; major books discussed
• 33:02–34:13 – Rant about publication calendars and list integrity
• 39:01–52:24 – In-depth month-by-month scorekeeping of “It Book” picks
• 56:39–58:15 – Final verdict on prediction accuracy; pride in process
• 58:19–End – Closing and outro

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Conclusion

This episode zooms out from holiday-specific picks to reflect on how books do (or don’t) break through in a crowded, capricious year. Jeff and Rebecca remain candid, wry, and as interested in the patterns of literary culture as in the books themselves. With deep dives, playful jabs at the industry, and affectionate tributes, it’s a satisfying listen for readers wanting a smart, skeptical, and celebratory view of the year in books.

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Transcript

[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

This is the Book Riot Podcast. I'm Jeff o'. Neill.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And I'm Rebecca Schinsky.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And technically it's December it books episode, Rebecca, But I have a spoiler for you and the listeners. Yes, we cannot do that format because there isn't the juice. I'm going to read some books at you and I don't know what we're going to do we're going to say about them, but we're going to do December new releases and then look at our January through November picks to see how we did for it. Book selections for the year. I haven't looked. You said the document, but I didn't want to preview it, so I have no sense of how we did. I know there's a couple of big misses in there. We're going to talk about the New York Times 10 Best Books of the year on the Thursday show and do some other stuff there. But I do want to say in looking at that list, looking at some other roundup list that's happened, I feel like our sense that nothing coalesced is kind of right and we got a little spoiled. We had a James God of the woods year where there's a couple that kind of broke through.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Before that, we had a James McBride year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, we had some stuff going on and this year there's plenty of good books. Books I really like. Books you and I really liked. And that's separate from this conversation about and I wrote in today in books. Like you could have given me 10 cracks at the 10 best books from the New York Times. And I don't think I would have gotten any. There's books I recognize some couple books on there I really liked. But you could have given me 10 of these. Out of this, 100 are going to be on the list. And I don't know if I would have gotten right. And that's no critique of them or me. It's just how the year went.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I did slightly better than that. I think either two or three of the titles I have in our fantasy league are in that New York Times.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's very nice on your part list.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I felt good about that. But one of them was one that I like, really would have gambled on. We'll talk about it more on the main show on Monday.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But for December, it's as light of a December as I can remember. Like, I sent you the list of books I was looking for this week's new releases. Really, it's this week and next week, because then after that, really things fall off the cliff. So it's kind of a half month. And then people don't really keep stuff. Let's do some programming notes. We got lots of stuff in the hopper, Rebecca, if you want to see. I think our the conversation we had at zero to well read that went in the zero to well read feat today. The canon contenders of 2025. I wish I would have come up with that format 10 years ago because that's something we would have done on this show. I really like that idea. It gets us a little bit out of the morass of what are the 10 books of the year, what we like the best. Rebecca, what did we try to do with that episode?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We went through award winners, bestsellers, big book club picks, pop culture phenomena. And we tried to guess educated guesses, you know, with our Spidey senses born of years in publishing, which ones we might still be talking about in five or 10 or 20 or maybe even 50 years, which ones might become part of the modern reading canon. There were 22 titles, I think, that we took into consideration, and I won't tell you how many we landed on, but we did a sort of a stoplight procedure. We gave them green for like, we feel really good about this, yellow for in the middle, and red for this was big this year, but we don't think that it's going to stand the test of time. Now, longtime listeners of this show know that we say all the time that very few books, like almost nothing, actually lasts and is remembered. And that's either sad or pretty liberating, depending on how you think about it but just it is the exception to the rule for a book to be read five or 10 or 15 or 50 years later. Not the norm. And it was an interesting task to look at what what has been big this year, especially in a year that we didn't coalesce attention around just one or two really big titles. There was no agreed upon book of 2025. Like the retailers couldn't agree. The big lists couldn't agree. It was a really fun exercise. I also wish that we had had that idea sooner, but that's how you know it's a good idea is when you really wish it had come around earlier.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, this it books format I came up with. I came up for first edition, right. That was something I thought about trying there and and have poured it over here. So go check that on Zero to well read. There's a couple more hits coming over there. We have announced it so it's not spoiling it because it was part of our rating drive. But on December 16th we'll have Dickens A Christmas Carol which I'm looking forward to talking about. There'll be another book in the feed next week and something that maybe there are trailers out. Maybe it's in theaters now. Who knows what you can say about what's coming into the feed over at 0 to well read. On our front we will be doing, let's see, towards the end of the month but in for early January we're going to do the spring draft which is a Patreon feature. We're going to be doing some of our best of the year kinds of stuff both in front of the house and back of the house books and otherwise. Go check out the Patreon. Thank you all for subscribing over there. Had a new high water mark for patrons. I really appreciate all of your attention and dollars and feedback. Also a lot of good follow up recommendations from the holiday recommendations.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes. So many good follow ups showing up there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So it's been really fun as well. Still looking as always. We'll continue to always have my tin cup out for Ocean's Eleven and Before Sunset Red alikes. I saw you people trying and I looked at the books you recommended and I appreciate the effort. I'll put it that way. I really will. I appreciate the effort but I'm not sure we're quite.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You know we talk sometimes about books that do things that only books can do, but I do think there are some things that only movies can do and the Linklater Trilogy is especially one of those that like watching people just walking around talking about their lives, but occupying space together and seeing the energy that they share and the facial expressions and their eye contact and the little stuff that you can get details and you can get a version of that in a book, but I just don't know that we're gonna hit on it. Like, I appreciate that folks are trying as well, but I also think that we're gonna maybe like, I believe that I will probably die wondering if a book could ever feel the way that the Linklater before trilogy feels. And that's okay with me. Like, I love to have a movie experience that feels singularly like something the movies can do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I was thinking about that more in terms of Ocean's Eleven just cause the logistics are hard to narrativize. On the page of this is here and he's wearing this hat. And I think, yeah, that makes a little. That's more difficult, I think, with Before Sunset. I agree with you that that's a. There's the scene and the setting and that matters. But since that is such a construction of dialogue, I think you could read it and have a really good experience too. I think the thing it's closest to is a play.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's true.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's where you're going to find. And that gives me a chance. And I was going to do this on Thursday show, but it'll be late. But I just want to mention Tom Stoppard here real quick because Tom Stoppard passed away this weekend the age of 88. The great Czech Jewish English playwright who didn't know he was Jewish until late in his life and didn't go by his Czech name. Really interesting person, a super important artist to me. I wrote about it and I copied myself in Today in Books and I wrote about it in the Book Riot newsletter. I'll share a little bit about it here. But I came out, I saw the Invention of Love in London when I was in college and I came it out of that and I wrote it. This is exactly what I wrote in the thing. Thinking two things. One is like, well, now I have a favorite living playwright. I wouldn't. I wouldn't even know to tell you. My favorite living playwright was 1996. I hadn't heard of August Wilson and some of the other people that have written. And then the other thought I had was, is this what it felt like to watch Shakespeare in 1599? And I know that's falutin, Rebecca.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's pretty falutin. But I think well earned and the.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Reason I say that is at least twofold. One is the electricity of the writing, the stimulation, the creativity, sort of unrelenting creativity of the invention of love, especially Arcadia and the Real Thing. Those are my three of the favorite plays. I haven't seen everything. Not everything's available. Michelle and I were lamenting this morning that you can't just pick stuff up because we would have popped on Arcadia last night for the kids. Arcadia, the protagonist is a 13 year old sort of wunderkind and it's about Newtonian physics and chaos theory and it's. It's just all the things you. That you want and it. But it operates a level that the plot and character is really good. Like it operates all things. And then the other thing is, I was gonna say about the Shakespeare is he was a writer for popular people. Like he wrote the screenplay to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. He wrote Steven Spielberg's Empire of the Sun. He wrote the screenplay for Enigma, which is a very Tom Stoppard thing of like Alan Turing and code breaking in World War II. I just. It's just amazing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I watched Shakespeare in Love on Sunday night, of course.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Or Sunday night after the news. And like that's just. I mean, he's so in his bag there. As a writer who clearly loved Shakespeare and was well versed in it, but also was seeking to make highfalutin art accessible to people and to humanize it and to make these people that we think of as almost like artistic deities really to be people and that. It's funny.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It is so funny.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Funny and like so much funnier than I remembered from. I mean it's probably been 10 or 15 years since I watched it, but like to thread that needle of being so just like almost polymathic, just like so well versed in so many things and able to put them on the page and onto the screen and the stage and come across as still grounded and relatable and something that an audience can connect to. What magic. I like. I'm so jealous that you have. Like, I've heard this invention of Love story a couple of times. Every time you tell it, I'm just like, oh, like I love that you had that and I'm so jealous.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I went and saw it again in the US when it came over and one of the main characters were played by Robert Shawn Leonard in a complete book nerd movie moment from, you know, of course, Dead Poet Society in there too. And you know, I don't. The thing that is most, I guess, available and I Guess closest to what Stoppard does. And I don't claim to be a scholar. I'm very much a fan here. I'm an educated fan. But I haven't read everything and I've tracked everything down as you can. There is a filmed version of Rosencrantz and Guild and Stranded Dead that he directed starring Gary Oldman and Tim Roth. And just do yourself a favor and Google Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. Tennis question scene. And you will see there. I couldn't find a better clip. Like, there's not that many clips and you could watch the whole thing and there's a Waiting for Godot element to it. It's absurd, but it just, what he does in those moments lights up all the part of my brain I want lit up. And it's the kind of work where you watch it and you. I frankly feel inspired. I find myself wanting to write funnier and smarter and say more interesting things in more interesting ways. And I don't know what higher compliment I could give. And I, you know, people talk about the great writers of dialogue like the Jesse Armstrong of Succession or, you know, the Amy Sherman Palladinos or the Aaron Sorkin's, but I've got to say, Stoppard is just destroyed. Just dust, dust, dust them all. And some of it because he's not writing in those genres like the writing for the episodic television and mass market and hbo. You get that. But if you like ideas and you like language, there's nothing like it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, there's also a clip that Ethan Hawke put out this weekend on his Instagram of himself. He's like, if I were not already a little bit in love with Ethan Hawke, this would have done it. He's like lounging in the grass in his backyard with his reading glasses and his little dog running around behind him, reading from one of the Stoppard plays that he got to act in back in the day and just reading a section in his lovely voice and like, you can just feel the admiration for the work and how lucky he felt to get to know Stoppard and to get to, you know, play that part in that play. But just like you and I have been talking off mic about, like, how are we going to do anything this week other than sit around and read Tom Stoppard? And I guess what I'm doing instead is like watching Ethan Hawke clips and watching that Rosencrantz and Guildenstern clip and trying to marinate in it as much as possible.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean, honestly, if you have no introduction to Stoppard and your interest all just Google Tom Stoppard wiki quote. Just look, just read some of the line. Just read some of the lines to see if it's something because I think you can buy. I know I have a print copy of Invention of Love. Like I bought the play. There are copies out there you can get on Kindle, whatever. But I think it like Shakespeare, it's readable if you're a language person and that we know there are different kinds of readers. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but if you can revel in the well placed line. Witty repartee. He is so interested in ideas and people thinking about thinking about ideas and that. That's all the kind of brain in the jar stuff I want. I mean, that's all that there is for me there. And I, you know, I never really considered him as a contender for the Nobel Prize. I just never put it together because I don't think of playwrights. It's just not one of my expertise. I don't feel qualified to say. But I do feel qualified to say my own experience as a reader, as a thinker, as a consumer of culture. Someone who thinks he can hit with the people operating at really high levels or at least understand them and engage with them at the level they deserve. I put them up there with, with anybody. And if I was forced, it would be hard to put anyone above him in my living memory of reading and doing the experience. So maybe it'll be a revival. And if there's a revival of the individual Love or Acadia, the real thing, we've made a blood pact to go bay whatever blood money I wrote. Also, one of the great regrets of my culture consuming life is the coast of Utopia was in New York while I was there. I think I was still in grad school when it came out. And it's three plays and they performed all at once. I was all day at Lincoln center and I think the ticket prices were 79,000. I mean, it was so expensive that it was gonna be that. That's what I did that year. But God damn it, Rebecca, that was so dumb. That was the worst money I never spent, unfortunately.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Age into the YOLO of go to the concert, buy the tickets to the play. Carpe diem. Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So anyway, that's Tom Stoppard fairly well. The work will be there and we'll take a break and come back. Talk about a few December new releases.

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[Jeff O'Neill]

I listened to some NBA podcasts. I don't know why. It's kind of what I have on when I'm not thinking about things and a couple of the dynamics they fall into there. They call it just naming guys. We're like yeah, this team has this guy and this guy and they're like, they try to catch themselves and I'm gonna, I'm gonna be naming some books Rebecca. And I guess I was trying to find something that will I read literally any books that are published in December. I don't know. But here are the ones that are contenders for me. I thought I'd walk through them with you a little bit. There's a couple of like newsworthy things that I am there so there's no way I'm gonna read American Canto by Olivia Nuzzi. But the lot of discourse, the discourse is off the charts. So there's a way that it could be the it book of the of the month. Even though I saw some people talking about the sales number where's an Amazon ranking means it could have like literally single digit first day sales which again if you don't know this whole business, please stay away from it. You don't need to know anything about it. But if you do the RFK junior affairs and the I don't know, you can't even. This isn't even a good play or book or Something. It's so sordid and stupid at the same time.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. I haven't read a headline about it that wasn't snarky. And the fact that even, like, the big players in book media feel pretty comfortable taking shots at it tells you something.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And imagine the gall of calling it American Kanto. I mean, what is. What kind of bold move, Cotton. Yeah, that is like, can hubris be cringe? I'm not even sure. I don't think the Greeks even had a word for that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. What was the Greek word for hubris can be cringe?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Let's go.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They didn't have a word for corny, but that's.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that. I think that is the discourse Book of the month, for sure. But in terms of the it book of, like, the bells we usually try to ring with an it book. That would be a zero out of four.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, that would be a zero out of four. I think if there was a book of an it book of the month. Anytime you have a Nobel Prize winner out with a book and Olga Torkacuk has a book out House of Day, House of Night, I know you're gonna be surprised. It's about a woman in a remote Polish village. She writes a lot of books that feel similar to me, having never read them, but they sound very similar. But having said that, she's one of the great writers of the modern age. It's 336 pages, which is more accessible than the Book of Jacob, which was her last book that was translated to English. I'm not sure the chronology of when these were actually written versus when we're getting them now. I think Riverhead is bringing them out in the years since she's won the Nobel, kind of like they're doing with Abdul Raza at Gurna. This is one of the great things that Riverhead does. And then I think the one that people still recommend. I did a little research this morning is Drive your Plow over the Mountains of the Dead.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But in this kind of a month, I think that would be this thing. I would literally have to hide this in the list of four books that I would pick for the books of the month.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that's right. And Drive youe Plow over the Bones of the Dead was in the New York Times readers list of the top 100 books of the century.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Have you read that?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I have not.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, I have not.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I was doing a little research for the Longer, the long and Ever growing Zero to Wellben Master list. And just looking at what made that reader's list from the Times and was interested to see that there and probably just glommed onto it because I knew that this book was coming out. But I think of the people of a literary persuasion. If you're looking for a new release for December, it's probably Olga Tokarczyk.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Drive your plow over the bones of the dead. 274 pages, which seems very reasonable for us. Those are the two that I think have any kind of news, top level stuff behind it. So from here I'm gonna do a little triptych of book nerd things somewhere. A Boy and a Bear by Giles Brandreth, which is a story. It's a book about a mill and the creation of Winnie the Pooh.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, I haven't heard of this this.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Week from macmillan, but I don't remember which imprint. I think it might. It's St. Martin's Press.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Do you think it will be of a sob fest?

[Jeff O'Neill]

No. And I know a little of this story. And A.A. milne was a kind of a jerk to his kid Christopher, who Christopher Robin is based on. There's a version of this story that's extraordinarily sweet. I think it is more complicated than this. I'm sure it makes for an interesting story. They actually have. By some circuitous path that I can't recall the details of right now. The New York Public Library has the original stuffed animals, Christopher Milne stuffed animals. And they were on display and I think they're always on display and sort of the treasures room there. But it's the hundredth anniversary of the publication of the first Winnie the Pooh book, which I haven't heard much about. We've heard a lot of 250 for pride and Prejudice. That's really been the one that's coming. But this one I haven't heard as much about. And I think because it is a children's book and I don't know, it's a very important book in my household, I'd be curious from listeners, are people still reading Winnie the Pooh to their five or six year olds? I'm afraid afraid is not the right word. I'm terrified that the Disneyfication of Winnie the Pooh has taken over the original stories, which I think are superior. I actually like the Disney stuff and the original Disney stuff is based quite closely on the stories. But the collected Winnie the Pooh and the short vignettes and Rue getting the Very Windy Day and the Heffalumps and rules, it's all extremely charming and not at all Saccharine. I mean it's sweet, but it's not saccharine because it has a sadness built into it, has a. It has a reality built into it. And it's just funny and charming and so simple. But I think I will buy this as have on my shelf to flip through at some point. I don't know. I don't know where we put this conversation. One of these, one of the original ones is an interesting zero to well read contender. I think it could hold up for, I don't know, we're gonna do two hours on it. But the history and how what it was consideration in the place of children's literature at the time I think is all extremely interesting stuff. So that one's on my radar list is ever growing. Yeah, this is a. I mean I just naming. I told you, I'm just naming guys here. Let's see. This one I'm very excited to listen to eventually. I'm not going to get to it now, unfortunately, just because the end of the year. But Adam Morgan has a book out called A Danger to the Minds of Young Girls, Margaret C. Anderson, Book Bans and the Fight to Modernize Literature. So I first encountered Margaret C. Anderson when we were doing the annotated episode about the publication of James Joyce's Ulysses in America because Margaret C. Anderson was engaged in a lawsuit about pornography, about getting information about birth control into the hands of girls. And she was on trial and labeled, quote unquote, a danger to the minds of young girls. And then how you know you're doing it right. And then she also was the first person to serialize Ulysses in her magazine. So really interesting person. And I'm glad this book exists because I remember when I was researching that there's a lot of good stuff about James Joyce and Shakespeare and company, the people involved. But there wasn't to my knowledge, a definitive Margaret C. Andersen book. And sounds like a super interesting person. So for those of you who are interested in early 20th century and feminist icons and publishing history as I am, that one's very cool. That's December 9th. That's not out quite yet. Elizabeth McCracken has a book out. So this is one of those your writer's favorite writer sort of people. Elizabeth McCracken, she has a book called A Long Game Notes on Writing Fiction. Again, I don't read a lot of craft books. I do think she's wickedly smart and funny. I do love her 208 pages. I kind of am interested what she has to say.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

She's great on a panel. I've seen her speak a couple times. Yeah. So I believe if anybody can make a craft book interesting, it's Elizabeth McCracken.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And she was one of my first Twitter follower people that I really looked forward to seeing what she was.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

She was good on Twitter. That's right. Back in the day when Twitter was good. Elizabeth McCracken.

[Jeff O'Neill]

When Twitter was different. As we've established before elsewhere on the book nerd front. Oh, Goodreads. I cannot believe you're doing this to me. I saved the link and it's going to something else. I'll just say the name that I'm reading here. The Tower and the ruin. J.R. tolkien's creation by Michael Drought. He's written about Tolkien quite often, but this looks to me like his big shot at it. Like, this is the story of creating of Middle Earth and the world. Another fascinating story. We will get to some Tolkien at some point, I'm sure. And this I look forward to encountering. A lot of people have tried to make this into a movie, a story, a stage play. CS Lewis and Tolkien in World War I and all this stuff. And I hasn't done. They haven't quite hit it right. This does seem like it's not quite academic, but it's for an enthusiast. This isn't trying to look like it's not crown or Double day title if you're what I'm saying in those regards. But welcome addition there. This may be the closest one I actually read an excerpt from this one. I think this is smart. I maybe even release this a little bit later. But it's by Huang Bo Rem, who wrote welcome to the Hwang Dong Bookshop, which is one of these cozy kind of fantasy, light fantasy stories. But this one's nonfiction. It's. It's every day I read 53 Ways to Get closer to books. And there it's very short. It's almost like a devotional. We could pick up and do like one a week. Yeah. Or just a reminder that you can keep at hand. The. The COVID is not for me, but I can see how people might like it. It's like illustrated cats like messing up a library. I think there's this maybe a good gift idea I picked. I'm gonna go pick it up to look at in the. In Powell's when I do some mid December book shopping. I have some ideas for people that might like this. But if you've got someone in your life that likes books or maybe you know, is book curious, they want to make it More a part of their life. This might be a fun stocking stuffer idea there. Let's see. I don't have too many more. Rebecca.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I have one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. What are you.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What came out this week? Feast on youn Life by Tamar Adler. Who's.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I wondered if you were. If this was your tip. I had this on my list too. You thought. Do you know her or this person? I don't know this person at all. Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. I've followed her work. She's a chef and a writer.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So right in the zone. And this is essays about food and cooking and eating and all of those things. I have not read it. I've seen some excerpts. It's on my list. I think when I have finished my zero to well read homework for this year and then we get that finishes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

There's an end to that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

There is. We actually, Jeff, we have two Fridays in December where we do not have a zero to well read recording. And those will be the only two Fridays for a very long time.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Probably.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But good problems to have lots of momentum over there. But I'm saving like I will curl up by my Christmas tree at some point in late December and read food essays. Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The. The. What's it. What's it? The Let them theory. What was the. What was the book before that?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Atomic Habits.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, no, no, no. The one that was released on December 31st that we both like. Come on, Kylie reads. What was the name of the first.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, come on.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Come on. Come and get it. Was the second one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I want to say so good. They can't ignore you. But that's Calvin for.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Why don't you Google while I why don't you Google while I'm doing this next one? That award for Such a Fun Age. Such a Fun Age. We love that book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It did come out right at the end of December and it ruined.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's such a Fun Age award for what are we doing here? The list making a 30th of December an arcane inheritance by Camilla Cole. Which is a dark academia fantasy with a twist with it with for fans of Babel and A Deadly Education. Sounds pretty cool, but I don't know, maybe I don't get it. But that gets the award. It sounds interesting. I think a lot of people are gonna like this book. It appeared on a lot of previews for the month.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

When we finally succeed in, I don't know, becoming the emperors of publishing and making all of the book awards have an eligibility window that f follows a calendar year. I think we will as an artifact of that, do away with December 30th releases of things that might be interesting because right now they sneak in a lot of eligibility windows close on, like, October 30th. And so people do put some stuff out in November and December to start the next eligibility year. But that is dumb and that you miss the best of.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I've got a bone to pick with the Amazon book editors and the American Book Association.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let's do it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Calendar fraud. In their December picks of the month, they included November books. Best offer Wins came out November 25th. ABA and Amazon. What are we doing here? I know it's a light month, but we cannot do this. We have enough trouble keeping our calendar ducks in the row in publishing. We of the digital people, us of the digital shepherds that we are, we make the list, we curate the roundups. We have to stick together here. We cannot do this.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We cannot do this. I respect Publishers Weekly for this so much that, yes, they don't make themselves stick to a certain number of a list for anything when they get to the best books at the end of the year. Like, the best fiction might have 15, and then the best, like, tab, the tab for some other genre might have four. And, you know, it's a very much like, it takes however long it takes kind of approach. Like however many books does deserve to be on the list is how long the list is and if it's okay. Amazon, if there are not like 10 in December, just make a list of six.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And after that, I guess, really just one more I want to mention it was shortlisted for the Booker Prize. The Rest of Our Life by Ben Markovitz. Blurbs from Ann Patchett and Sarah Jessica Parker. Not bad. If you can get them. Simon and Schuster, we've got. We really need to talk about the metadata you provide. Tell me the release date and the page number. Also December 30th.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's kind of surprising they didn't bump that up when it was shortlisted for the Booker.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The tour. All the Tour dates are January 5th and after, because shockingly, Ben Markovitz is not going to be out there on New Year's Eve at a Barnes and Noble in Sheboygan trying to flog his wares.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What are we doing here?

[Jeff O'Neill]

What are we doing here? It's a road trip novel about a man at a crossroads in his life. Has any man on a road trip? Never. Has every man on a road trip in a novel? You know what? We're good. This is all fine.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Went on the road trip, turned out it's okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Also, I respect the blurb. I respect the synopsis. Writer's life. But you can't say a triumphantly life affirming road trip novel about a man at a crossroads in his life. You can't do it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Do you think the crossroad is metaphorical?

[Jeff O'Neill]

There are no crossroads on a road trip. Those are highways. And you can't put the metaphorical road next to the real road. Maybe the robots are right for us. I don't know. We can't do that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm gonna get into this on a zero to well read recording. But while we are having a moment about synopses, I need a moment about blurb inflation.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Look, I know that blurb, but if you're ever gonna say that on a book or about. Anyway, we don't have to fight about this. I saw. I, I agree with you. But also, if you're ever going to.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The back of my Harper Paperback of 100 Years of Solitude says basically, not since the book of Genesis has there been a book that everyone on earth should be required to read. And I just, I heard you in my head going, let's be careful out there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean, caution is always warranted. I like how that just blows past like the Gospels.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's like I was, I'm almost done with the book. I turned it over last night and I was like, listen to this. And Bob was just like, yeah, that's a big swing. The book. Not since the book of Genesis. Like, this is also weird company to put Marquez in. Like, also he's won a Nobel since that blurb was issued. So is a winner of the Nobel Prize.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Did you look at that?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Did you look that up? Because I think that blurber has.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Is it more recent for a while?

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, I think it's old. I think that might be an old.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh yeah, that's what I mean. Like, the blurb came before the Nobel. So like can is.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Is winner of the Nobel Prize calling their show. Right? That's a hell of a thing to do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Come on.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Come on.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's very. Just. You shouldn't say that. You just. You're right, I agree with you. But hyperbole going to do that? They at least did it on something that's not completely absurd.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, no, it's not completely absurd. It's just like it. But it's still absurd. Just. Why are we. Why are we doing this?

[Jeff O'Neill]

All right, let's take a break and then we're going to evaluate our it book selections from this year. Black Friday savings are here at the.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Home Depot, which means it's time to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

Fascinating.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. Okay, we'll just go through these in January. Why don't we alternate months? I'll take January 1st. We'll read the 10 finalists, what we picked, and then any triage we need to do we had on our list. Witchcraft for Wayward Girls by Grady Hendricks, Beautiful Ugly by Alice Feeney We Do Not Part by Hong Kong Good Dirt by Charmaine Wilkerson, which actually did quite well this year. It did the Love of My Life by Edmund White, which was not awkward at all to talk about, Dare I say it by Naomi Watts, Three Wild Dogs and the Truth by Markus Zusak, Death of the Author by Nnedi Okorafor, the crash by Frieda McFadden and Onyx Storm by Rebecca Yarros. And we selected Onyx Storm, which I think is right, but it wasn't the runaway it felt at the time.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, that was right. And it was all the buzz. Like, this was the first big book to come out in January. I think it was the first, maybe the second week of January. There was so much talk about it and about, like, getting to Target to get the special editions and like it was just all over the place. I do, in retrospect, think it was the right choice. We Do Not Part by Hong Kong would also have been, I think, a justifiable choice. She's so literary, also a Nobel Prize winner, but has made it on like, was on some long lists this year. Has made it onto basically every best books of the year list. Like, there has been more visibility for We Do Not Part than I expected there to be in January. I'm delighted by that. But I do think Onyx Storm was the right choice. I think we got that one right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I mean, it was huge. I mean, special editions line out the target. Like, you don't need it to us to tell you. Yeah, I think any month. I don't. I think any month that came out this year, there are some other things that really popped, but I think it would have wiped out any book on any other list. Rebecca, what do we have in February?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

February we had on the Hippie Trail by Rick Steves, Cleavage by Jennifer Finney Boylan, Deep Cuts by Holly Brickley, the Dark Mirror by Samantha Shannon. One Day everyone will have always been against this by Omar El Akkad Isola by Allegra Goodman, Shattered by Hanif Qureshi, Stoneyard Devotional by Charlotte Wood, Fearless and Free by Josephine Baker. And Death Takes Me by Christina Rivera Garza. And we picked Death Takes Me by Cristina Rivera Garza. Which speaking of blurb fraud.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We talked. We talked with Vanessa. Was that a Patreon or a regular episode?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We talked about it on Patreon with Vanessa. The blurb for it is like a writer finds a dead body in an alley and there's a message in nail polish on the wall of the alley. And like, she starts trying to help solve the murder. And it's a literary mystery. And, like, it is a literary mystery.

[Jeff O'Neill]

True.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But it is so experimental and like, avant garde that they're like, it doesn't. This is the worst example, like, the most extreme example in my reading this year of a discrepancy between the package and the contents.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right. Tough.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. So we were very wrong about that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

A strong month, I think Stonyard Devotional, Isola. And one day everyone will have always been against this have endured to the end of the year. I'm seeing them all kinds of lists. I think obviously now that one day everyone will have always been guessed. This won the National Book Award for nonfiction. That should have been the pick of the book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I agree. And Stonyard Devotional was just in the New York Times Top 10 Books of the year, which I am delighted by. My second favorite novel after Audition of the Year. But yeah, I Think one day everyone will have always been against this would have been the pick for February.

[Jeff O'Neill]

March was a murderer's row and I remember talking about this at the time. So we had Harriet Tubman Live in Concert by Bob the Drag Queen. Stag Dance by Torrey Peters, which I haven't heard boo about in the end of the year, which is interesting. Buffalo Hunter Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones. Wild Dark shore by Charlotte McGonaghy. Everything is tuberculosis by John Green, the Dream Hotel by Leila Lalami, Tilt by Emma Petit, the River Has Roots by Amal Elmotar, Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins and the Antidote by Karen Russell. Like, that's eight of those 10 are still around one major awards. We picked the Dream Hotel, which was wrong, but I'm not exactly sure. I think Wild Doc Shore or Buffalo Hunter Hunter.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Those are the two.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sunrise that they're Reaping. Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean Dream Hotel was big at the time, like. And I think even in June, when. Or June or July, when we assessed our first few months of the year, we felt pretty good about Dream Hotel still, like it had gotten a big book club pick. I expected to see it on some best of the year lists. I don't think I've seen it on any. But now it would be Buffalo Hunter Hunter or Wild Dark Shore. Maybe even everything is tuberculosis like that's been. And the Antidote was shortlisted for the National Book Award. Sunrise on the Reaping. Like at the time people were like, but Sunrise on the Reaping is going to sell and it's going to be good. That's in a bunch of lists. Maybe it should be that one. I think it would be Wild Dark Shore or Buffalo Hunter Hunter. Maybe a little edge for Wild Dark Shore for having gotten that Amazon Best Books of the Best Book of the year so far. Not in July.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean, I think if we sort of draw a line around the world of books for this exercise. It's Wild Dark Shore.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sunrise and the Reaping sold well. It was quite good. The trailer just came out. Like it's a cultural phenomenon now, so it kind of exists on a different plane. So I think it is the book of the month, but it's almost playing a different game if we. If we kind of keep it to our sphere a little more. I think it's Wild Dark Shore, but.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This going back through this list makes me think March on October this year. But like March was loaded.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Until it was great and has done very well and I've seen it showing up.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So I have too. It's been really nice to see for April. Girl on Girl by Sophie Gilbert Heartwood by Amity Gage Matriarch by Tina Knowles Authority by Andrea Longchu The Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett. Julie Chan Is Dead by Lian Zhang Open Heaven by Seyen Hewitt Searches by Vahini Vara. Where the Axe Is Buried by Ray Naylor. Auditioned by Katie Kitamura and Gifted and Talented by Olivey Blake. And we went with Audition by Katie Kitamura and I think that was right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that was right. I don't see anything. I feel bad about there. I like the Road to Tender Hearts. Where the Axes Buried by Ray Naylor. I haven't heard anything about. I know you like searches. That's something I will get to eventually. But I don't know.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, and I read Girl on Girl. I think we actually both read Girl on Girl by Sophie gilbert about like 90s pop culture.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, sorry. Yes, yes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Co opting as feminism. But we both found it to be like a little not quite as cohesive as we wanted. It has made some best of lists this year that I've been a little surprised to see, but glad for the message of that book to be getting out there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think may may have been the most underperformant month of the year because there's a lot of hitters here. Bad Friend by Tiffany Watt Smith, Mark Twain by Ron Chernow, Big Dumb Eyes by Nate Bargazzi. Run for the Hills by Kevin the Lumberjack Wilson Isabella Nag in the Pot of Basil by Oliver Darkshire, Spent by Alison Bechdel, Harmattan Season by Tochi Onyebuchi, the Book of Records by Madeline Thiene, My Name Is Emilia de Valla by Isabella Linde and Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong. And all of them got to like 70% of their ceilings. I feel like we picked Emperor of Gladness. I still feel like that's right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Actually it got the Oprah pick.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It did get the Oprah pick, but yeah, I mean nothing else.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Soft month though.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, a soft month.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, a soft month. In June we had King of Ashes by SA Cosby, the Girls who Grew Big by Leila Motley, Flashlight by Susan Choi, Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil by V. E Schwab, Great Black Hope by Rob Franklin, the Dry Season by Melissa Febos, how to Dodge a Cannonball by Denard Dale, Homework by Jeff Dyer, Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid and Tony At Random by Dana A. Williams. And that was a loaded month. We picked Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid and I think that was right. Still.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Is the the only thing even close is king of ashes, I think. And flashlights out in yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And bury our bones in the midnight Soil has done well all year long. It's like there were some contenders, but I think atmosphere was the biggest.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I think it noses out a couple of those other ones there. July I'm proud of us for this. Angel down by Daniel Krause if you love it, let It Kill you by Hannah Pittard the Bewitching by Sylvia Marino Garcia Vera or Faith by Gary Stangart Maggie or A man and a woman walk into a Bar by Katie Yee the Carpool Detectives by Chuck Hogan A Marriage at Sea by Sophie Elmhurst Baldwin A Love Story by Nicholas Boggs and the Woman in Sweet Eleven by Ruth Ware. Really good month. Really good nonfiction month. I love the Carpool Detectives. I love Marriage at Sea. I love Baldwin. I liked Vera or Faith.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I really liked Maggie.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Angel down is what we picked and I don't think it would have been yesterday, but it is today. The right because it was one of the five picks by the New York Times and I haven't seen a lot of lists. I have read this. It's extraordinarily good. It's one of Liberty's favorite books of the year. I love this pick. The only thing I think it's close is A Marriage at Sea by Sophia. But I will say this, that's a nice story, but that's kind of it. Like it's not going to be read in 10 years. I think angel down might be. Daniel Crow is super interesting.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. When I was looking back at this, A Marriage at Sea was also on the New York Times top 10. It's one of the five nonfiction picks. And like, I think it had a much bigger it had a moment like at the end of July. I would have actually said we were wrong about this because the marriage at sea had such a big moment. But seeing angel down at the top of the New York Times top 10 10, it's because alphabetically it's at the top. But seeing it in that top five, a wonderful surprise. That list, as you said, is always surprising. They're going to pull some things that either you've never heard of or that you didn't expect to see at the top of a list. I am proud of us as well. Good job on us for July.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Just a note here. I remember this either got it wrong. Baldwin appeared twice. I can't actually remember if that was a July or August Pick so. So we had it in August as well. But do the rest of the August picks.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. So yeah, maybe just Sidebarring Baldwin by Nicholas Boggs for August. Anonymous mail by Christopher Whitcomb the Hounding by Zinneby Purvis Between Two Rivers by Moody Al Rashid Louisiana Women by Ella Berman Accomplice to the Villain by Hannah Nicole Mirror Automatic Noodle by Annalee Nevitz Tart by Slutty Chef, People Like Us by Jason Mott and Katabases by RF Kuang. And we picked Katapesis. Indeed. We were correct. Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Do you want to have a. Do you want to have a moment of silence for people like us? Not a moment silence. Me too.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean, I really liked it and I mean, I have not read hell of a book. I think I'm going to get to it at some point. I really appreciated Jason Mott's voice in People Like Us. I liked what he was doing. I don't think these books are packaged well.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I'm not sure they know what to do with them on.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, like, they're. They are a little weird. He skates into the. Like Colson Whitehead. Like, no one is Percival Everett, but Jason Maud is in that universe.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Kevin Wilson in him too. I think we've talked about that with Kevin Wilson. Are these are like dramedies?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it's a little bit zany, but it's. But it's also brainy and there's something slightly surreal about what's going on in People Like Us. And it's really funny and sharp. But you do have to be a reader who's willing to be unsettled or like, not quite know what's going on the whole time. I think more readers can hang with that than publishers estimate can.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So what does that. Both. So what does it look. I mean, literally, what does it look like? Because they're trying that with Kevin Wilson. I don't think that works either.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's true. Although Kevin Wilson has had like, some pretty like family Fang did really well. Some of the. Some of the other Kevin Wilson books have done well. I think they generally package Kevin Wilson pretty well. This year's Kevin Wilson book was just like not our favorite, but People Like Us. It's just a navy blue cover with big yellow lettering, if I'm remembering correctly. Hell of a book. The COVID was mostly the title in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Large font, really bright yellow.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And I don't know what I would do. Like, this is. It's a hard task and I am not a book designer, but I think there is something about not just like, the literal design of the book, but the messaging about Jason Mott books that, like, is not reaching the right readers. I just really believe that there's a bigger readership for him and maybe it takes some, like, a slightly more commercial breakout or an American he's won the National Book Award.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Or like An American rated as Barbara Kingsolver. But, you know, he just.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, or maybe he needs, like, an American fiction adaptation kind of moment, like what Everett got with Erasure. But yeah, I will pour one out for people like us because I thought it was really good and I've been bummed not to see much conversation about it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

In September. We love you, Bunny by Mona Wad. Mother Mary Comes to Me by our Undadi Roy, Midnight Timetable by Bora Chung, The Academy by Ellen Ellen Helden, Ellen Hildenbrand and Shelby Cunningham. I always get that wrong. The Impossible Fortune by Richard Osmond, Amity by Nathan Harris, the Wilderness by Angela Thornoy, Will there Ever be another you by Patricia Lockwood, all the Way to the river by Elizabeth Gilbert. And the Secret of Secrets by Dan Brown. And I remember, I think we had a conversation and I think we just shot at the wrong dartboard because we picked Will there Ever be another you? And I'm pretty sure we should. The Wilderness by Angela Flournoy. Should be it, though I'm not so sure. It's not Mother Mary Comes to Me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think it's Mother Mary Comes to Me.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You think it is?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay, I do. Okay, I do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We're still wrong. Doesn't help us.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

More end of year juice for Mother Mary Comes to Me. And I do think we'll be maybe.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Reading the Memoir of the Year. Question mark. Mother Mary Comes to Me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think yes. Like, coming into the year, I expected the Elizabeth Gilbert memoir to be the memoir of the year because Elizabeth Gilbert. But that turned out to be so wacky and all of the reviews for it were pretty bad.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The none of My Business award of the year goes all the Way to the river by Elizabeth Gilbert.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I am proud of us, though, that in September we didn't just give it to Dan Brown for the Secrets of secrets out of the book has sold well. Our pure love for him and the people. It's a good Dan Brown book.

[Jeff O'Neill]

People are willing to do Dan Brown. Like, this is my second favorite. Dan Brown.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it's great. I'm. I am delighted. One of my brothers in law asks me for audiobook recommendations and I try to just shoot for, like, the most Swiss army stuff possible with Him. And the top of the last list was. You've got to pick up the new Dan Brown.

[Jeff O'Neill]

October.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

All right.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

October.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Murderers Row, the Wayfinder by Adam Johnson, the Ten Year Affair by Aaron Summers, King Sorrow by Joe Hill, the Land of Sweet Forever by Harper Lee, A Guardian and a Thief by Mega Majumdar in Shidification by Cory Doctorow, the Unveiling by Quan Berry, Joyride by Susan Orlean, Shadow Ticket by Thomas Pynchon, Dead and Alive by Zadie Smith and Tom's Crossing by Mark Danielewski. We picked Shadow Ticket by Thomas Pynchon. We were wrong.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Why? Because it's a Guardian and a Thief.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's a Guardian and a Thief. Yeah. Shortlisted for a bunch of book awards, got an Oprah pick. One of the surprise hits of the year. Yeah. It's a Guardian and a Thief.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that's right. November. Cursed Daughters by Owen Ken Braithwaite, Book of Lies by Margaret Atwood, the Look by Michelle Obama, the White Hot by Kira Alerga Hudez, the Emergency by George Packer, the Eleventh Hour by Salman Rushdie, Palaver by Brian Washington, the Pelican Child by Joy Williams and Brimstone by Callie Hart. And we're super close to this still. We picked Palaver and Jury is still out. Or not. Or do you think it's Cursed Daughters?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't know.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Or some third choice.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think it's right. It was. Yeah. Shortlisted for the National Book Award. It's on a lot of the big end of year lists. The reviews have been good and it is good. You know, I finished it last week. It's quiet, it's literary, it's Brian Washington.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Did I miss all the Atwood Press for Book of Lives? Where are the interviews and the blurbs and the short.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I have not seen a big. I haven't seen a big profile, but she's been doing a lot of social.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like she's on the soch. Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I got served some reels of somebody interviewing Margaret Atwood and her talking about how she, she. She can't help it that she holds grudges because she's a Scorpio. And it was delightful, just Margaret Atwood and her like mischievous little face being like, well, what do you want from me? I'm a Scorpio.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So with that. So let's give ourselves credit for no. So we got November one of this, October one of two, we got September one of three, we got seven out of 11. I. That's pretty good that I'm not embarrassed.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

By any of the picks, honestly. Better than chance. Better than 50. 50 is a real win. But publishing can be such a crapshoot. Like, I wouldn't have been surprised to open this up and be like, oh, we only got two. Like, especially in a year where nothing coalesced.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The only one I kind of wish I had a different crack at. And that's just because I hadn't read the book. And I don't know Garza that well, as I shouldn't have maybe thrown that dart without knowing. But I was like, where was I gonna go? I hadn't. I didn't know any of these people.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The synopsis is so compelling.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I guess maybe I could have looked at one day everyone will have always been against this and be like, you know what?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, this is gonna be the thing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This is gonna be a thing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

There's a new Charlotte Wood book out next year and we will not be sleeping on that in that it Books Month.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Charlotte Wood is the kind of author name I'm gonna forget. I'm not going to remember her name.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Does she also need a lumberjack like moniker?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Let's give it to her. Charlotte the Abbess Wood.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Love it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

All right, that is our show today. Can choose email podcastookright.com can find [e-mail] listen or in your podcast player of choice right there where you're listening to. It's in your hand in your pocket on the kitchen counter. You can find the show notes there. You can find the patreon. And do go check out our episode over at Zero to weld the canon contenders of 2025. And we will. We're talking about some of the books we mentioned here, weirdly, some that did not appear here at all.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But that's an interesting year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Play for no stakes and a lot of angst. And this is the career we've chosen.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Rebecca, Congratulations, little pride.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Talk to you later.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Y' all have a good one.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It.