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Book Riot - The Podcast
Alien Jazz Hands for PROJECT HAIL MARY
00:40:25
Vanessa Diaz joins Rebecca for a conversation about the new adaptation of Project Hail Mary.
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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started@redfin.com own the dream. Refreshing Wild Cherry cola meets smooth cream. The treat you deserve. Pepsi Wild Cherry and cream. Treat yourself.
- [00:48]
B
This is the Book Riot Podcast. I'm Rebecca Schinsky. Jeff is out this week and I am joined by Book Riot's managing editor, Vanessa Diaz. Vanessa, welcome.
- [00:57]
C
I am so excited to be here for this.
- [01:00]
B
I'm so delighted to have you. You're back in the sidecar with me to talk about another adaptation. We've really kind of become the wonder twins of adaptation chats together this year, and I feel just really delighted by that.
- [01:13]
C
It's great. We have an appointment, we get to talk, and it's like a thing that it would. I'd probably be finding a way to talk to you about anyway, off mic. So, like, why not, you know, put it on wax and tell people about our feelings.
- [01:23]
B
It's either do this and share it with the world or have increasingly deranged text exchanges.
- [01:27]
C
Exactly. Which sometimes still happen. But we've actually, as you said, managed to keep this pretty pure. We haven't really exchanged a lot of thoughts on this one, which is fun.
- [01:35]
B
Yeah. And we are, of course, today talking about the new adaptation of Project Hail Mary, the book by Andy Weir, the adaptation by Christopher Lord and Phil Miller. We have a lot of thoughts. We're pretty excited. We could say amaze, amaze, amaze. Or excite, excite, excite. But first, we will take a break for our sponsor.
- [01:57]
D
Today's episode is brought to you by 11 reader. If you listen to audiobooks a lot, the narrator problem can be so real. 74% of audiobook listeners have stopped or considered stopping a book because of the narrator's voice. 11 Reader helps by letting you choose from more than a thousand natural sounding voices for any title. You can even design your own narrator. So there are more than 50,000 audiobooks to choose from. There are bestsellers, hidden gems, and guilty pleasures. The catalog spans every genre and you can pick the narrator that fits the story. And you can listen to anything. You can turn your documents, your PDFs, your eBooks into lifelike audiobooks this gives you the freedom to upload any text and hear it read in studio quality voices. Your reading list becomes a listening list. There's premium listening at a fair price and plans start lower than audible with no credits to track or expire. And you can of course cancel anytime. So you get three days premium entirely free. Try before you commit. It's available on iOS, Android and the web. Just go to bookriot.com 11reader Again, that's bookriot.com 11reader and thanks again to 11reader for sponsoring this episode.
- [03:20]
E
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- [04:17]
B
so we really have not talked about this at all with each other and I realized this morning that I don't know anything about your history with Project Hail Mary. Is this new to you? Are you an OG fan from when the book came out? What's your relationship to the to Project Hail Mary?
- [04:30]
C
I've had a weird realization. I've. I've called myself an SFF reader for like most of my life. And then when I was still recording on the now you know, archived podcast sff. Yeah, pour one out, I would realize that I read a lot more fantasy than I do sci fi. So like, it is a thing I've been trying to like catch back up on because when I read it, I enjoy it. I just don't always find myself reaching for it. And so yeah, I haven't actually read any of the Andy Weir books. But because I am the captain of the Patreon newsletter companion to our other podcast series a well read, this is one of those books that I felt like I read going into movie and actually fully into like I started the audiobook on your recommendation because I heard it was a really fantastic audio production. So I did start it, but had some travel. Anyway, stuff happened that I wasn't able to, like, get through it, but I talked to another friend of mine who did see an advanced screener for the. I mean, and I think I knew this going in, but she said it doesn't matter. Like, you don't have to know anything about the book. Although I really feel like I did because of zero to well read, which is a really great episode. But she's like, you're gonna have fun regardless. Is it. Even if I'm not always, like, a giant sci fi person, she's like, no. Go with gods. And wow. I'm so glad that I did. This was so much fun for only having read, like, maybe a quarter of the book.
- [05:40]
B
Oh, okay. Yeah. So I'll get to do the. Well, actuallys at you about what happens in the book versus what happens in the movie.
- [05:46]
C
I have so many questions, so I'm glad.
- [05:50]
B
That'll be fun. I read the book when it first came out. I went back and checked my audiobook library, and I was like, oh, yep. No, I did acquire this audiobook, like, the day that it was published because I had heard special experience, and that was not wrong. A really unique experience. And it was a secret in the book at the time, like, that Rocky existed. So that's maybe the first big difference is that Rocky, who becomes Rylan Grace, who is Ryan Gosling's character, he becomes his intergalactic bromance buddy. He's an alien who looks like a bunch of rocks with spider legs. We don't find out about him until, like, a couple hundred pages into the book, and it's a huge surprise. But he's in all the promotional material for the movie, and I totally understand why they did that. I think it was really smart to do that as a marketing choice. And then you're on tenterhooks for the first chunk of the film because it's like, 45 minutes before we see Rocky. But I had heard. I think it was from Jeff. There's something really special in the audio that you could only really do in an audiobook. You'll know it when you get there. And it was in the audiobook when Rocky's voice comes on, and it's like, like, keyboard tones.
- [07:02]
C
Keyboard and like, kind of musical. Yeah, yeah.
- [07:05]
B
Like 80s synth keyboard tones. It was. And I was like, oh, this is it. This is the thing that makes this audiobook so special. So that had been an all timer. It's in the audiobook hall of fame in my household. And then I had not touched it, you know, in the five years until the film came out. Reread it for Zero to well read. Had a great time, go find that episode over in the Zero to well read feed. And then was so, so excited to see this. I saw it in IMAX on release weekend. Same with my best friend in the middle of a packed theater. Kind of an ideal movie going experience. What was yours like?
- [07:40]
C
Yeah, I intended to actually see it last week and then couldn't so I ended up seeing it last night essentially. And so I went from watching it and would have been like a pre release as far as I could tell. Like not many tickets had been sold yet to like watching it in an absolutely packed house on a Monday night. But it was great. Everybody there was super into it. You could tell. It seemed like a lot of people like knew the source material but a few people didn't and there was lots of interacting with the screen and big feelings. So it was really, it was fun. It was one of the more fun movie experiences I've had in a bit.
- [08:09]
B
A packed house on a Monday night is a thing in itself to talk about here. Like we've been to see some of the biggest adaptations of the last year together for the podcast, you know, a coast coasts apart. But we went to see Hamnet early on. We saw Wuthering Heights early on last year. We saw it ends with us like in early release.
- [08:29]
C
What an oeuvre.
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B
Yeah. Truly this is first of all a very pleasant departure.
- [08:37]
C
Wow. It's once you like bladed out there, I'm like, oh, okay. And I will, you know, quote an episode of Zero to well read and just quickly get out of the way that Ryland Grace absolutely sounds like a name that would have been plucked from one of our previous adaptation experiences. And that being Colleen Hoovers, it ends with us Lily Blossom Bloom. Anyway. It really does.
- [08:56]
B
We got a comment or an email somewhere that was a full on. Like Ryland is a name that goes back to like British history in these times. And I was like, yeah, but Ryland Grace is a Colleen. Who cares? What is Andy Ware doing? Yes, it's code for this guy's nerdy and hot, which is accurate.
- [09:11]
C
Let's go for it.
- [09:12]
B
Yeah, so let's talk movie first and then get into the details about adaptation stuff. Is this a good movie? What did you think? How is your experience?
- [09:18]
C
Oh my gosh, it was fantastic. I had so much Fun. I don't. I jokingly told my friend, like, I blame Hamnet for cracking something open in me because I was straight bawling in this theater over this little space crustacean. Like, I just.
- [09:31]
B
So real.
- [09:31]
C
I. And the people next to me were crying. One of them was a man. Not that, you know, to assign heteronormativity to tears, because that's not it. But like, I was just like absolutely sobbing at like two or three different points in the end because again, I didn't finish the book. So I kind of wasn't sure which of these points was like, actually where I was going to get dropped off. But it's just so funny. Like, Ryan Gosling is a really fun actor. I thought he nailed this role. And the. Yeah, everything. And it's just beautiful cinematography. Like, I was stunned. I'm so glad I saw it in IMAX because it was just like there was nowhere bad to rest your eyes. Yeah, it was well paced. It was just so much fun. It's one of the most fun moviegoing experiences I've had in a bit.
- [10:11]
B
I totally agree. I thought it was a blast and it was surprisingly moving. I cheered up half a dozen times.
- [10:18]
C
Same.
- [10:19]
B
And I definitely heard sniffles happening around me and I knew what was happening. I knew which of those big climax moments was the actual ending and where it was going. But I was thinking, like, it still really filled me with suspense and feeling and just really remarkable the bond that they're able to portray between a man and an alien rock puppet.
- [10:41]
C
Yep, yep. It's intense.
- [10:44]
B
You mentioned the cinematography and I. I think that's a huge part of it. And so are the effects that like, they did most of this with practical effects. Rocky is a puppet. Rocky is not a CGI character.
- [10:55]
C
That's so wild to me.
- [10:57]
B
And there's very little cgi. There's like some green screen stuff from what I was reading, but not really any cgi made up effects. Most of these are practical effects. You can really feel that like that the characters. It's mostly Ryan Gosling. He is just in that spaceship. He's touching real things that were there on set to be touched. And the story behind Rocky is fascinating. Are your reels and TikTok feeds also full of project Hail Mary content right now? Okay, so James Ortiz is the puppeteer who was originally on set just to move Rocky around. And they discovered that, you know, in the course of filming, Gosling needed somebody to play against. So Ortiz started playing with voices for Rocky and ultimately ended up being Rocky's voice in the film because of the bond that they formed, like, you know, in character on set together, which just would not have been possible in a CGI setup for Rocky.
- [11:54]
C
I kept thinking that the whole time, and I ended up looking it up. I found this out maybe an hour ago, but Because I kept thinking, is Ryan Gosling acting at nothing right now
- [12:02]
B
or, like, what is.
- [12:04]
C
Yeah, correct. Exactly. Like we're usually. Or yeah. I was watching, like, House of the Dragon behind the scenes recently where they have just, like, a fake dragon head on, like, a stick, and they're like, here you go. Like, is that what this guy is doing? And it's like, no, he was, you know, it was really nice to know the backstory. I think he would have done a good job regardless. But was it. It's pretty cool that he got to play off because I think it made the bromance of it all or just that build of relationship so much more rich and layered. Yeah. So good.
- [12:26]
B
Yeah, it's beautifully shot. I know you're a score girlie. And the score is incredible. The soundtrack is wonderful. And Gosling, I think, is just perfectly cast. I went back and watched the first hour of the Martian because I was thinking, like, how does this compare to what Matt Damon did? And the Martian is really funny. It's a lot drier, I think, than project Hail Mary. And Gosling, like, lives in the zone that he can sort of mug for the camera. It's a little more overtly silly, like I said in the 0 to well read episode that I felt like in the book between the Martian and writing zero to well read, Andy Weir got hip to, like, what could make a four quadrant hit and kind of shaved some of the edges off of the Martian. That Ryland Grace is, like, a little more palatable. He curses a lot less like just a nicer, more charming guy than the main character of the Martian is meant to be. And, man, does it work.
- [13:20]
C
Oh, it works so well. Oh, so good. It was just so much fun. Like, I really did have so much fun. It just, like, flew by.
- [13:27]
B
It really is fun. Let's see. We've talked about how many times we cried already. That was one of my top questions in my notes. We should talk also about supporting cast, I think. So. In the story, Grace is a middle school science teacher who gets drafted by, like, a top level multinational government person who tells him she has all the authority. Her name is Strat. And she's like, you're gonna help us solve this problem based on this thesis that you wrote. She's played by Sandra Hooler in the film. And like, I thought she was a revelation. I had only seen Sandra Hooler in really serious movies. Like, she was in the Zone of Interest and Anatomy of Fall of a Fall in the same year. And so it was fun to see her in this kind of like, quietly funny role, but also very sharp.
- [14:16]
C
Yeah, she was. Still, she retained the bits of her that I could see if somebody was going to cast this from little I, like, knew about her from the book and like, how. Why she would immediately come to mind because she does have that ability to be incredibly, like, stern and reserved. But these little. Yeah, just the way she would deliver some of the lines kind of through the side of her mouth. Of course, like, the karaoke scene was so like, ugh. You are revelatory in like, all the best ways. And I really liked the way her and Ryan fed off of each other in the scenes when they were together.
- [14:42]
B
Yeah, they had a really nice chemistry. And also Lionel Boyce from the Bear plays Carl, who is like, sort of one of the G men.
- [14:51]
C
I love Carl.
- [14:51]
B
She's supposed to kind of be an enforcer, I think, who ends up being Gosling's buddy, co conspirator.
- [14:58]
C
And the guy with the expense account.
- [15:01]
B
Yeah, the guy with the expense account. He gets some really good one liners. And I was reading that he wasn't supposed to have nearly as big of a role, but once they got him on set, the two of of them had such a good time. So this is just like buddy comedies all the way up and down.
- [15:14]
C
That's. I love that. This is where I'm gonna throw in my, like, silly little anecdote that I have met Ryan Gosling. Oh. In a previous life, as I've maybe stated on a few podcasts, I worked in like, the rental industry. So I worked for like, the company that owns like, Enterprise national and Alamo Rent a Car. And as a baby, like, assistant manager, I was like, overseeing some of the LA locations that rented to the major film studios. So we would often get either a celebrity themselves or like somebody's assistant come and rent a car, either for use on production or like for the persons themselves just to, like, you know, ride around town. And so Ryan Gosling had rented a car from us. I don't think I even knew that. But he left his cell phone in the car.
- [15:49]
B
Oh, no.
- [15:49]
C
And so we get a call that's like, hey, Ryan left his cell phone in the car. So I go and I find it thinking again, it's going to be some, like, PA that comes and gets it. So it's like a super busy lobby. Everybody there's. People are angry. It's summer, you know, there's not enough cars to go around. And then in walks Ryan Gosling, like, fresh off the Notebook, I think, like, this was, you know, the early aughts. It's just like, hi, is Vanessa here? And I'm like, yeah. He came over and was like, I gave him the phone. When I tell you I wish I could have gotten a snapshot of the lobby because it went from people being like, I just need to get like, like, jaws dropped because he hugged me for, like, a really long time. And not in a creepy way. He was just being nice. And he's like, thank you so much. This could have been awkward anyway, and then he just started chatting it up with people. He's like a very personable dude. And, you know, he wasn't maybe arguably as big as he is now. But anyway, I could just see him, like, pulling it out of people because he seems like a very nice man.
- [16:41]
B
Lovely. That's a great story.
- [16:43]
C
Yeah.
- [16:43]
B
Anyhow, let's see. I have some changes and some, like, thoughts about the movie before we get into, like, what are your questions about the adaptation? There's. The book is narrated first person by Ryling Ryland Grace, and he's waking up in space with amnesia because he's been in this coma. He doesn't know who he is, he doesn't know why he's there. And then in the book, we get flashbacks that are happening, like, as his memory is coming back to him. We get to see what happened on Earth that led up to this revelation where he is. There's really minimal voiceover in the movie, which was one of my biggest questions, like, how are they going to do this? That makes it feel different from the Martian because the Martian is like all Matt Damon voiceover, all Matt Damon doing video logs as his journal. There's very little of that. I thought that was a smart choice to differentiate it from the Martian. But I wondered, as somebody who didn't read the book, like, how did that play to you? The flashbacks and the, like, he has amnesia and the resolution of it.
- [17:42]
C
Yeah, I mean, you know, we've. I feel like I bring this up in every movie where I'm like, am I going to get the interiority of the character when, you know, I'm going. And so that was a piece that. From what little I remember, you know, of, like the bit that I finished of the book is like, how are we going to get into this? I thought it was, for the most part, really clear and, like, really well done. They had enough of, you know, obviously, like, there's enough difference in, like, hey, here you're in space and here you're not. It was kind of clear, you know, what was going on. I did have questions that are, you know, venturing into spoiler territory about, like, is that how it went down in the book? Like, the way he ends up on the ship? Is that. Is that how that went down?
- [18:16]
B
Yeah, I guess we're 20 minutes into this episode, so we'll give the spoiler warning here. If you don't want to be spoiled about Project Hail Mary, you can stop listening. But I think it's safe to say we endorse this film and we think you should read the book, too.
- [18:27]
C
Yes. So, yeah, it was, like, increasingly clear to me that, you know, he wasn't. He never expected to be on here. And, like, you know, the further you get into the flashbacks, you're like, okay, up until pretty much the end of the film, you're still getting a version of the flashback where Ryan is not supposed to be on the ship. So I'm like, how. And I don't know what his feelings are about that. You know, if he. If it was something that he actually wanted to do. So that piece of the interiority I was kind of not struggling with so much as just, like, question mark about. And then we do get to the, like, revelation, I was like, oh, shoot. So, yeah, if you could tell me about that, I'd be super interested.
- [18:58]
B
Yeah. So it is both the same and different. It's the same in that he's not supposed to originally be on the mission. He's just working. In the background, there is an explosion that kills the primary crew members and leaves them looking for who can go. But there's an extra detail in the book that only, like, 1 in 7,000 people on Earth have a gene that allows them to survive this induced coma, and that all of the crew members have this gene. And Strat has tested everybody, so she also knows that Ryland Grace has the gene. And after the original crew members are killed and they need a replacement scientist, it's not just, hey, you've been in all the meetings and you know all the things. It's also, we know you're.
- [19:43]
C
You are genetically matched.
- [19:45]
B
Yes. Yes. And she does ask him if he'll go. He does the same. Like, he decides not to. He tells her that he doesn't want to and she. They have it out much more in the book, which I did miss a little in the film. Like the confrontation where she tells him, no, you're gonna go. Whether you want to or not is. It's sharper in the book. It's a real. Like, you chickened out in your academic career. Cause people got mad at your dissertation, and so now you're just a middle school teacher. Like, she kind of gives him like a man up and do it. You're going to space.
- [20:17]
C
Got it.
- [20:18]
B
Yeah. That's a good. Like, she just really reads him in the book. And where in the movie she's like, okay, you got to tell.
- [20:27]
C
I was trying to make this easy.
- [20:29]
B
Doesn't matter. These nice men are gonna inject you with this. And you're going. And he does figure out he has this. It's a bigger revelation in the book where he realizes, like, like, oh, I was a coward. And she had to, you know, kind of non consensually inject me with stuff to put me in a coma and send me here, and here I am. But that's the big redemption arc in the book is now you actually do get to be brave and save.
- [20:55]
C
Oh, I kind of. I kind of miss that knowing that now. I did, however, get a hearty laugh at Ryan, like, running away from the agents, but just like, go stand on a cabinet. That was. That was special.
- [21:04]
B
There's such a good mix of, like, smart comedy and physical comedy. Yeah.
- [21:08]
C
He was so physically comedic. You know, one minute you got this dude, like, spinning in freefall, like in space, and then he's just like, actively running away from agents when, you know he's about to get his ass tackled. Like, it was just. He's. He played. It looks like he had a lot
- [21:20]
B
of fun, not to mention, like, real achievements in glasses wearing. We're glasses wearers. And he has his glasses on and around his face in so many positions, so many ways. I've been trying to. To figure out how to do that and make it look cool, but, like, if I hang my glasses off one of my ears, it's just not working.
- [21:40]
C
I do believe the type of lens that we are wearing. Mine, weirdly enough, are a little closer to. I'm wearing these, like, thin, little gold. Yeah, but he definitely just. I don't know. He also just has that kind of face. He just pulls off a lot of stuff.
- [21:52]
B
I know the friend I was with leaned over and she was like, slutty little glasses.
- [21:57]
C
That is perfect.
- [21:58]
B
Those little rimless, like, he's. He knows how to use a prop.
- [22:03]
C
He does.
- [22:04]
B
I thought that that choice to like not get into the details about the Jean stuff was kind of indicative of a bunch of choices they made between book and movie where like there's just so much science in the book.
- [22:15]
C
So I gotta tell you, one of the reasons I didn't mean to cut you off there, but that I ended up tapping out was because of the place that I was at with just again, there's just stuff going on. There was so much science and I knew there would be because I had listened to some podcasts to prepare. But like I as accessible as he, you know, Andy weird tries to make that science, it's a lot of science. I was like, oh, I may. I don't know if I can do this right now. So yes, tell me more.
- [22:39]
B
Yeah, so I mean, yeah, I thought it was kind of smart to pull it back and like really just focus on the top line science of the story of like something is eating the sun. We have to figure it out. And then you get like little problem solving moments between Grace and Rocky on the ship. How was your experience of the the science in the movie then?
- [22:56]
F
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- [22:58]
C
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F
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- [23:01]
C
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F
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- [23:10]
G
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- [23:43]
H
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- [24:11]
C
I thought it was like perfectly done in that like it wasn't so, you know, dumbed down for lack of a better term that you know, it needed that, you know it could. It should have been more because obviously this is like an investment intensely complex problem that they're being asked to solve. But it and part of it also is just in the way that he had to explain. I don't know if that is also built into the book as much, but because he has to explain it to Rocky in a way that makes sense to somebody who doesn't, you know, have a grasp on English or, you know, the way we interpret science. There was enough kind of built in, like. And here's where I have to make it even more accessible because I need to make sense for Rocky. And so it has to make sense to you.
- [24:48]
B
You.
- [24:48]
C
But I don't know, I thought it was good. It kept me thinking enough to kind of expand and go, oh, my gosh, is this, like, a real issue that we might be facing? And that's probably more about my own anxieties about the world. So, yeah, there was enough complexity, but I thought it was accessible enough that I. I didn't. My eyes didn't glaze over the way they sometimes do in, like, harder sci fi when I'm just not in the brain space for it.
- [25:08]
B
Yeah, I agree with that. I thought it was smart to sort of pull back to, like, top lines about what the science was and that Rocky not knowing about stuff like radiation. That's true to the book. And Grace has to explain it to him as well. There's a whole other thing in the book where Rocky and the Iridians don't understand, like, time dilation or, like, relativity. So Grace also has to explain that to him. And I thought it was smart to, like, not get into.
- [25:34]
C
I was gonna say, he says one line about it, he and I. And I thought for a second. Here we go. Because he was like. And he didn't understand relativity. He's like, oh, sweet, sweet Jesus. Yeah.
- [25:42]
B
Like, the difference in this book is that by the time Grace gets out to the star or to that new solar system and he and Rocky meet. Rocky has been there for, like, 35 years because.
- [25:53]
C
Oh, that's right. I did know that from. Yeah. The recording.
- [25:56]
B
And Grace is trying to explain to him, like, you know, basically, light speed.
- [26:02]
C
Cool, cool, cool.
- [26:03]
B
Oh, yeah, all of that. So I thought it was smart to pull that out. I, like, I think if I had one quibble, it goes to something that you said as a person who hadn't read the book, that is. It's that it feels like there are several places that the movie could end.
- [26:15]
C
Yeah, that. That was my. It was fine. But I was definitely like, ah, it's over now. Oh, it's not over now.
- [26:21]
B
Where I realized, like, I mean, I. I had just read the book So I knew where the movie was going. But in the book, you, you're either holding the book or you can see how much time is left on your audiobook or your book, you know. So when one of those big moments happens, you just know, oh, there's still 100 pages to go. But I realized most of the people sitting in the theater with me didn't know. And you could feel like the big rise of like, this is it. Rocky and Grace are both headed home.
- [26:46]
C
Yay.
- [26:47]
B
And like the, just the vibe in the theater was like people were ready to just like go out on that note. And like, oh, then there's. Wait, there's more.
- [26:54]
C
Oh, I had several like. And part of this is that I was just so lost in it that I wasn't 100 paying attention to what I knew the runtime was that I was like, oh, it ends with, you know, we think Grace is dead, but he's not and he's gonna wake up and Rocky's dead. Like, I for sure was like that this is the end. And then it's like. So then like, if you consider how many times after that, you know, like, it's like, nope, here. And we still have what, like five, 10? I don't know. There were at least five points after, you know, when he like nose dives into the spaceship. I was like, and now it's over. No, it's not. And I didn't know when I wanted it to be over because there were parts that were sad and I was like, please keep going. And I'm like, okay, this is where. Oh no, it's not. Okay. Okay, I'll sit. You know. Yeah, so there was that.
- [27:32]
B
So how did you feel about the ending?
- [27:35]
C
I had two seconds of you fool, go back. And that was, was very short lived because I also was like the. Rocky was his buddy and he saved him and he saved the globe and what the hell are you going back to how much time has passed anyway? Like just. But there was something. And this is fully a Vanessa thing, but I staring into those giant like in those moments when they would zoom out, right? And you saw like the massive massiveness of space was both really awe inspiring and beautiful. And I kept thinking, two days after you make this decision to go back, you're going to have the panic attack. Because that is exactly what happened to me of like two days after being like, yes, I did the right thing and I went got my buddy of being like, oh crap, I'm stuck out here forever. So there was a moment where I was Very much. Like, just go back to Earth and save yourself. And then I came back around to, like, no, but that's his friend. And then the ending, ending, ending. I was like, oh, okay. It was a little bit corny, but I didn't care. When he, like, was a little teacher to all the, like, mini space stations.
- [28:35]
B
And that is how the book ends.
- [28:36]
C
It is. Stop it. I thought that was totally made up. Oh, my gosh.
- [28:41]
B
That is how the book ends. In the book, you don't get to see Strat back on Earth receiving info from the Beatles. It's just like, we just assume that the info got back, Earth is gonna take care of itself, and that Grace is gonna live out his days being a science teacher informing a whole new planet about how relativity.
- [29:02]
C
That's fantastic, Andy Weir, the way your brain works.
- [29:05]
B
I know. I mean, I. I heard somebody talking as we were walking out of the theater who was like, yeah, I mean, you got to suspend your disbelief a little bit, but it's worth it because it's fun. And that's kind of where I landed on this. Like, I don't really want to think any more critically about this movie experience because it felt so good, and it's just hopeful in a way that I felt like, we really need this right now. And maybe it's unrealistic and, I don't know, delusional. Like, there is some criticism of the story of, like, earth would never cooperate this way. And, you know, Strat even says it in the story, like, we've got to solve this, because at some point, we're not going to have enough. Enough food, and the nations of the planet are not going to work with each other to share it. So we have to fix this. But there's a version of this story that could have been much more of a downer or, like, where the urgency is around the political ideas of it. But since they grounded the urgency in this friendship, and they do it so well that when they. When those guys hug with, like, a glass hamster ball between them.
- [30:15]
C
Stop it. And then again, there was just so much good humor. And there was like, are you feeling it now?
- [30:21]
B
All the little.
- [30:22]
C
Like, oh, it was just so cute. I thought there was enough, you know, because, again, like, Strat was right. Like, I thought there was enough of that skepticism of, like, look, if we don't do this, because, like, you can get me to believe. Suspension of disbelief aside, about, like, all the complexities of the science that I'm sure some scientist out there is, like, this is not how that that's fine, go away. This is for the simpletons. But there was like, you can convince me that a small group of people can like, get over their crap and make something happen. You could not convince me that the whole planet would. Or even just the United States for, you know, reasons of living through the past, the past six years. So I thought there was enough of that. Like, look, this is the only option because bigger cooperation's never gonna happen. So, like, it has to be this or nothing. I thought there was enough of that in there. And in a very, very, very, very, very different way. But I was thinking back to the Sparrow again, very different because these are very different books, which is a book I absolutely read because of you when I was a baby. Little like book riot listener, not yet on the staff. But like that idea that, like such an achievement. Yeah. Like the fact that you. That there is that. That idea that you find that humanity is not like, like it. Right. That like the ideas of like, empathy and connection and just like all these things that we ascribe is so unique to like the Homo sapiens is not that like, this could be something that you feel for something besides humanity was something I thought was really refreshing. Like, yes, this is a space crustacean made of rocks and like, what have you. But there is something there. There is a bond. Even if it does defy, like, all the traditional ways in which we would define what mean means things to us. Like, I was. I don't know, my soul, like, needed that. I was very into the idea of it.
- [31:50]
B
Yeah, I totally agree that it's like, it's not the science and practical problem solving that will save us. It's the friends we make along the way.
- [31:58]
C
Yeah, truly.
- [32:02]
B
And that. Yeah, that bond between them that like, they have this common language of math and science that they use to figure out how to communicate with each other. That does. Does feel like real the like, indomitability of the human spirit to me of this desire to connect. And I said in the 0 to well read show that I loved the presentation of an alien that's not like a little green man that is sentient and intelligent and not evil, but, like, it has the same desires and intentions and like, motivations.
- [32:32]
C
Doesn't even have a face. Right. Which is exactly something that he says. And you know, I don't know if the previews were the same where you were, but like, the preview we got before the film was like, for the new. I forget what his real name is. He'll forever be Baby Yoda to Me, the new, like, Mandalorian. Yeah, there you go. Grogu. And I, for people who don't know. I don't know, like, Jack about Star wars, but I'm obsessed with that stupid little green puppet. Like, I think he's just the cutest thing ever. So when I first saw Rocky on the screen, I was like, I'm supposed to feel something for this. Cue to pile of tears at the end. Be like, he loves him, so it's his fits, his buddy. So, yeah, it was. I thought it was just a really smart way of, like, talking about. Yeah. The art. Not only our need, but our ability to form connections outside of where you might expect.
- [33:12]
B
Yeah. And the story itself, like, it is stripped back enough that I think younger viewers will be able to appreciate most of it, even if they don't get the science. I saw people there with their teenagers. There were people much older than us there. Lots of, like. Lots of families. I'm gonna take my parents to see it next week when I'm visiting them. Like, I just think that we need a movie like this every now and then. And. Yeah, I don't care to subject it to, like, any deeper scrutiny. This was a great time. It's a great time. The book is a great time. If you've seen the movie and you wondered if you liked the movie, I think you will like the book. You can just let some of the science wash over you. But there are. There's more detail, so it's even richer. Like, all of the main beats of the movie are true to the book. They didn't make any major changes. And that feels like fan service to me as well, that this was a beloved book and it went back onto bestseller lists as soon as the adaptation started being promoted. People have really been reading the book. I think they had a sense that, like, if they made a lot of changes from the book, it was going to be a problem.
- [34:17]
C
A problem.
- [34:18]
B
But Weir does. He just does such a good job crafting these stories. And Lord and Miller have allegedly signed on to try to adapt Artemis, which is a moon height, the female main character.
- [34:32]
C
I would watch that based on this accomplishment.
- [34:35]
B
Yeah, based on their. Yeah, the book got sort of middling reviews. I do know that. Yeah. Yeah. There was good discourse at the time about, like, does Andy Weir know how to write female characters? So this might be a case where the adaptation makes some improvements to the book, but I'm down for a moon heist with these guys. And, like, could we get. Can we get, like, a greater Andy Weir universe? Where, like, Rocky shows up on the moon to help out with the heist.
- [35:03]
C
Oh, my gosh. In his cute little, like, hexagonal crystal thing that they got him in at the end. I don't know. That thing was rad. Just, again, the fact that I'm, like, mooning like this over a film that is and book that's about, like. Like, if you'd just been like, hey, so we're gonna go watch this movie about the fact that this, like, scientist gets yeeted into space face against his will because there's these cells that are, like, killing off the sun. I don't know that I would have been like, I must, because it's just not, like, my actual normal wheelhouse. But, oh, my gosh, this was so much fun. And if that's what you can do with this, like, I'd be really jazzed to watch a moon heist.
- [35:34]
B
Yeah. But, like, you can connect to Rocky, and I think a lot of people can identify even with the spirit of that character. I was telling you off mic before the show. The friend I saw it with is kind of like a chaos creature, and she was saying, like, kind of leaning over early in the movie of, like, oh, I'm Dr. Strat. Yeah, hard ass. Just do the thing. You're going to deal with it. And then as soon as Rocky started, like, tumbling through rooms in his overblown hamster wheel, being like, this room's boring. Why is this room messy? I'm. I was like, oh, dude, no, you're Rocky.
- [36:05]
C
Oh, I kind of know the answer to this next question, but because again, of having listened to Zero to, well read and, like, y' all go through some of your favorite lines, but, like, how many of those good lines that I heard in that movie? Like, I know. I all. Yeah, that's what I thought, because I know, obviously, I knew Amaze. Amaze of A's. I knew fist, my bump. I knew the like, which was really quick. But when he's like, you know, not get enough sleep, question mark. That is great. Yeah.
- [36:27]
B
Grumpy, stupid, silly. When?
- [36:29]
C
How long? Yeah, that's how long sleep. Yeah. Yeah. All that humor was just so good. Yeah, it's a good book.
- [36:35]
B
And you do get, like, added layers of humor in the book as Grace is sort of talking to himself and to us about realizing who he is. And there's a lot more lingering on his identity as a teacher and how much he cares about the students and feels inspired by that. There's a lot more of the backstory of the Other crew members and his relationships to the other astronauts. And you get like, that's kind of peppered throughout. Okay. But there, it's just a lot like the whole world is built out more when you get 500 pages of book.
- [37:05]
C
Of course, I did laugh two different points. One when I. And I knew this before, but I was like, why did. Who is this person from the other. The female scientist? And it finally clicked in the middle of the movie. And I said out loud, I was like, oh, my God, It's Lily from AT&T. She was like the AT&T commercial girl. And now she's on spaceship. And that they did include the scene that explains how Iridians eat. And I was like, oh, shout out to Jeff o' Neill for this, like, uncomfortable little scene about how the food gets, you know, shoved off an orifice. Although it wasn't anywhere near as disgusting as what I expected.
- [37:34]
B
Yeah, that is a change. Like in the book Rocky talks about, like, we don't like to. We don't want anyone to see us while we eat. It's really gross. I'm embarrassed.
- [37:42]
C
Whereas he was like, why are y'? All. Why do y' all eat? So weird. Look how we do it. He was kind of proud of it.
- [37:46]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's changed. I mean, they play it for a humorous effect in the movie and I think that was smart. Also, we don't need like a gross out alien pooping scene in this film to bring down the vibes. Any other parting thoughts, Vanessa?
- [38:01]
C
No. This was just so fun. Like, I'm really glad that this is. This is. That feels like the kind of movie experience that 2026 needed. It's obviously really early to talk about any kind of anything in the awards of forward spaces, but I, if nothing else, I just do it really. I just think this is a feather in his cat, man. Like, Ryan's not just some, like, random hot dude. Like, I've really been interested in, like, the kind of career that he's decided to try to carve out for himself post the Notebook and like this kind of role. It seems like it was a combination of both him just having a really great time and flexing those chops because again, yeah, you're acting against a person, it sounds like with the puppeteer. But overall that's just a lot of you and a lot of portraying.
- [38:37]
B
Yeah.
- [38:37]
C
Empathy, but also humor with humanity and a little bit of like. Yeah, you kind of were like a failure at what you're, you know, you did. And we're probably having some like, Self identity and, like, self worth issues. But you have this really cool redemption arc. And I, I don't know. I think this. Whether or not it contends for awards is. We'll see. But I. I just think if nothing else, this is like one of those crown jewels that will go in his filmography.
- [38:58]
B
I mean, I think it'll contend for some of the technical awards, for sure. It's hard to imagine that it won't. But, like, genre has historically kind of struggled at the Oscars, but Sinners just won a bunch of awards and Sinners is a big old genre work and Michael B. Jordan just won best actor. And what he's doing there is much more like the subject matter of it is much more serious and he is playing two characters than what Ryan Gosling has to do here. But this is a different. A challenge of its own kind. And I, I just think people like Ryan Gosling. Like, I feel like it'll be in the conversation and there are.
- [39:33]
C
Well, especially because the. I was gonna say the other, like, major genre. Not that there won't be more, but like a huge. And again, in the previews, contender for this sort of thing is going to be the last dune installment. But Mr. Timothy is not exactly in the place that he. And that could change. Right. Like, it's a long time from now, but it'll be really interesting to see how those two. No, no, not at all. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see both of those films, like, side by side in the way that people continue to talk about them because that's going to be a spectacle. But this is such a different film that's also sciencey and. Yeah.
- [40:07]
B
And you get 10 best picture nominees.
- [40:09]
C
Yes.
- [40:10]
B
And this will probably be in one of the best adapted screenplay.
- [40:13]
C
I think so.
- [40:15]
B
Yeah. I don't know. I can't remember what other big adaptations we've had confirmed for this year. So, yeah, there's a lot.
- [40:23]
C
And I always get confused now about the, like, the year cutoffs and so that. That confuses me every year.
- [40:27]
B
Sensibility adaptation this year.
- [40:29]
C
Oh, that's right.
- [40:30]
B
Yeah. From Focus Features. That'll be big. Well, big with readers, but I don't know if it'll be big with moviegoers. We'll see.
- [40:37]
C
I'm along for the ride regardless. Yeah.
- [40:40]
B
There's a real possibility that about this time next year we're talking about Project Hail Mary having won some Oscars. I think that's real.
- [40:46]
C
I hope so.
- [40:48]
B
And people should go and get their alien popcorn buckets and just have a great time, everybody. Have fun out there, please. All right. Thanks, Vanessa. As we mentioned, folks, you can hear me and Jeff do a big old deep dive into the details of the project Hail Mary Book over in the Zero to well Read feed. Scroll back a couple of weeks. Show notes are at the bottom of this episode. Wherever you're listening or@bookriot.com listen. You can email us@podcastookriot.com and as always, Book Riot is a proud member of the Airwave Podcast Network. Vanessa, Talk to you next time.
- [41:22]
C
Thank you.
- [41:30]
I
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- [41:35]
C
How quick?
- [41:35]
I
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