Book Riot – The Podcast

Episode: "Obama's Summer Reading List, B&N Buys Another Indie & More"
Hosts: Jeff O'Neal & Rebecca Schinsky
Release Date: September 8, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode is packed with news and analysis from the book world. Jeff and Rebecca discuss several major stories, including Obama’s latest summer reading list, Barnes & Noble’s surprising acquisition of another iconic indie bookstore, updates in the ongoing AI/copyright legal battles, industry moves among top publishing figures, and the latest book prize shortlists. They also introduce two significant Book Riot launches (a new podcast and a flagship newsletter) and share recent standout memoirs and novels.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Book Riot Launches: "Zero to Well Read" Podcast & Flagship Newsletter

[01:56 – 09:56]

• "Startup mode" at Book Riot. Jeff and Rebecca are in the midst of launching two major projects—a deep-dive podcast called Zero to Well Read and a new flagship Book Riot newsletter.
• Zero to Well Read:
  • Launches September 9; will be a 12-episode weekly series.
  • Each episode covers one book from the "well read" canon—with context, background, critique, and fun features ("Zero to Well Read score," hot-take section, "Can you get the gist if you just watch the movie?" etc.).
  • Books range from classics to contemporary hits. The show aims to appeal to those who've read the book, are curious about it, or will never read it but want to know about it.
  • Rebecca: "The pitch for the show is everything you need to know about the books that you wish you'd read." [04:27]
  • Episodes are "like the literary dinner party of your dreams, and nobody is going to ask your opinion about Chekhov." [04:51]
  • Published as a separate feed—listeners need to subscribe to "Zero to Well Read" wherever they get podcasts.
• Book Riot Newsletter:
  • Biweekly at launch (Tues & Thurs), with ambitions to increase frequency.
  • Modeled after news roundups like 1440 or Morning Brew, but for all things books—new releases, recommendations, commentary, interviews, cover reveals, quotes, trivia.
  • Sees itself as the "homepage" of Book Riot in an era when social media algorithms make web traffic unreliable.

AI Copyright Lawsuit: Anthropic's Settlement

[13:32 – 18:57]

• Anthropic, an AI company, settled a copyright infringement suit related to pirating books to train its model Claude.
• Case background:
  • A judge previously ruled it was “fair use” for LLMs to use books if they were legally acquired (bought), but not if pirated.
  • Anthropic admitted to training on pirated copies, spurring a class-action suit by authors.
  • Settlement seen as "paying to avoid discovery" rather than setting a broader precedent.
  • Rebecca: “This lawsuit settlement does not mean that going forward, AI companies have to pay licensing fees. No, it just means they have to have legally acquired the book…” [16:06]
  • Ongoing uncertainty: Supreme Court will have to weigh in someday to set settled law about AI and copyright, as fair use questions remain. The issue also goes beyond authors, affecting "illustrators and videographers and other media inputs to these systems." [17:58 – 18:55]

Jonathan Karp Steps Down as Simon & Schuster CEO

[19:02 – 22:29]

• Jonathan Karp, after leading the publisher through a failed merger and acquisition by private equity, leaves the CEO role.
• Will now head up a new boutique imprint, Simon Six, publishing six books per year.
• Both hosts admire the move; Jeff: “I kind of admire this move—that Jonathan Karp...wants to get back into the making of the books, the creative part of the job.” [20:14]
• Points out distance between executive-level publishing and daily contact with books, and speculates about how such arrangements come about.

Prize Season & The Kirkus Prize Calendar Conundrum

[23:14 – 30:38]

• Discussion about the Kirkus Prize longlist and frustration with off-kilter eligibility calendars (theirs runs from Nov 1 – Oct 31, so "2025" prize includes late 2024 releases).
• Some notable fiction and nonfiction finalists named (The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny by Kiran Desai, The Wilderness by Angela Flournoy, Isola by Allegra Goodman, etc.).
• Kirkus’s criteria: only books receiving a starred review (about 10% of those reviewed), so the field is competitive.
• Rebecca: “Kirkus can be a little bit of a left turn in their award winners. It's not always a big popular book…” [25:59]
• Both rant about chaos created for readers and bookish historians when awards straddle years or have confusing cycles.
• Jeff: "One of the purposes of awards like this...is a way to look back historically and see what books were valorized in their moment. And this thing where you're not sure what year a book came out and it could be multiple years that it covers an award is wild to me." [27:32]

Barnes & Noble Acquires Another Storied Indie: Books Inc.

[33:55 – 41:15]

• B&N acquires Books Inc., the oldest indie bookstore west of the Rockies (174 years), which had filed for Chapter 11.
• Second high-profile indie acquisition (after Denver's Tattered Cover)—signals a possible new pattern or at least openness to this kind of move by B&N.
• B&N plans to keep the Books Inc. name, stores (except one), and spirit intact, providing financial stability but not rebranding as B&N stores.
• Rebecca: “Barnes & Noble clearly sees value in these stores because they're giving them $3.25 million. Like, that's not a big amount of money if you're Barnes & Noble. But it's not nothing. And also if you're thinking about the value of a bunch of independent bookstores, 3.25 million for nine stores..." [36:54 – 37:25]
• Larger strategic questions discussed—protecting physical retail vs. Amazon, preserving "goodwill" in local brands, and speculation on if B&N will keep acquiring more indies.

Obama’s 2025 Summer Reading List

[41:30 – 44:17]

• The 2025 Obama Summer Reading List features a familiar blend of upper-midbrow literary fiction, dad nonfiction, and a few surprises.
• Picks include: Mark Twain by Ron Chernow, The Book of Records by Madeleine Thien, Abundance by Ezra Klein & Derek Thompson, King of Ashes by S. A. Cosby, Rosarita by Anita Desai, The Buffalo Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones, A Marriage at Sea by Sophie Elmhurst, Audition by Katie Kitamura, Government by Michael Lewis, and The Sirens Call by Chris Hayes.
• Jeff: “The three no-brainers were the Twain, Abundance, and the Cosby.” [43:04]
• Noted that Stephen Graham Jones's The Buffalo Hunter is building serious year-long momentum, making the list notable for genre readers.

Book Recs: Memoir Corner & New Novels

[45:23 – 55:58]

Rebecca’s Memoir Highlights

• A Truce That Is Not Peace by Miriam Toews:
  • Explores family suicide, mental health, the function of writing. "It's short, it packs a powerful punch...it doesn't move in a linear fashion. I really appreciate how she weaves in and out..." [45:38]
• This American Woman by Zarna Garg:
  • Indian-American stand-up comic’s journey from running away as a teen to discovering comedy in her 40s.
  • Rebecca: "It's as funny and just delightful, but also insightful and uplifting as you said it would be." (to Jeff) [48:43]
• All the Way to the River by Elizabeth Gilbert:
  • Love and addiction memoir about her soulmate, Raya Elias.
  • Explores extremes of love, creativity, spirituality, and mental illness.
  • Rebecca: "There are parts of the book that are so terribly beautiful and then there are parts that are heartbreaking..." [50:05]
  • Raises questions about memoir, confessional art, and literary voyeurism.

Jeff’s Picks

• The Water Bearers by Sacha Bonet (debut memoir):
  • Multi-generational story of Black women in Texas/Louisiana, tradition, and survival.
  • “Quite a remarkable group of people...for all of the 20th century and going into a little bit before.” [54:16]
• Kaplan’s Plot by Jason Diamond (novel):
  • Jewish family saga set in Chicago, blending food, mob history, and multi-generational dynamics.
  • “It’s a food book, it’s a Chicago book, it’s a book about being a certain kind of American Jew, also a mob book...” [54:46]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jeff, on the new podcast:
  "The Pitch for the show is everything you need to know about the books that you wish you'd read..." [04:27]
• Rebecca, on revisiting classics:
  "Going back to Gatsby as an adult was a really interesting and satisfying experience." [04:27]
• Rebecca, on the Anthropic AI case:
  “This lawsuit settlement does not mean that going forward, AI companies have to pay licensing fees. No, it just means they have to have legally acquired the book…” [16:06]
• Jeff, on book award timelines:
  "One of the purposes of awards like this...is a way to look back historically and see what books were valorized in their moment..." [27:32]
• Rebecca, on the B&N indie buyout:
  "I think if you consider the new management a lesser of two evils, you take the lesser of the evils. I don't consider this to be an evil at all." [39:44]
• Jeff, on Obama’s book picks:
  “The three no-brainers were the Twain, Abundance, and the Cosby.” [43:04]
• Rebecca, on the Gilbert memoir:
  “There are parts of the book that are so terribly beautiful and then there are parts that are heartbreaking and then there are parts where it's like she has either found the answers to the universe, or she has gone completely round the bend.” [50:05]

Timestamps of Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|------------------| | Book Riot Launches: New Podcast/Newsletter | 01:56 – 09:56 | | Anthropic AI Copyright Settlement | 13:32 – 18:57 | | Jonathan Karp Leaves S&S, Founds Simon Six | 19:02 – 22:29 | | Kirkus Prize Calendar & Prize List | 23:14 – 30:38 | | B&N Acquires Books Inc. | 33:55 – 41:15 | | Obama’s Summer Reading List | 41:30 – 44:17 | | Memoir Corner & Book Recs | 45:23 – 55:58 |

Overall Tone

Warm, witty, and deeply knowledgeable. Jeff and Rebecca take an insider’s, slightly irreverent, but always passionate approach to the world of books, connecting industry news to reader concerns and sharing honest reactions and recommendations.

Summary prepared for listeners who want substance, highlights, and the full flavor of the podcast without the ads, intros, or themesong.