The 2025 Holiday Recommendation Show, Part 2

Summary

Book Riot – The Podcast

Episode: The 2025 Holiday Recommendation Show, Part 2

Hosts: Jeff O’Neal & Rebecca Schinsky
Date: December 1, 2025

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Overview

In this lively, laughter-filled second installment of Book Riot’s annual Holiday Recommendation Show, Jeff O’Neal and Rebecca Schinsky tackle a robust set of reader-submitted recommendation dilemmas. From breaking out of the World War II historical fiction rut to finding audiobooks for tricky families and under-the-radar romantasy, the hosts respond with their signature blend of expertise, humor, and warmth. The conversation covers genres as wide-ranging as literary fiction, nature adventure nonfiction, heist novels, cookbooks, poetry, and more—with particular attention to specific wishes (no gore, no trauma, strong female characters, no animal abuse...).

As always, their banter is genuine, occasionally self-deprecating, and thoroughly reader-centric, with both hosts gleefully sharing personal favorites, reflecting on the experience of book-gifting, and expressing gratitude for their engaged, inquisitive audience.

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Listener Recommendations & Discussion Highlights

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1. Historical Fiction WITHOUT World War II (D’s Dilemma)

Timestamp: [02:12]–[08:25]

Listener Request:
D’s friend is obsessed with historical fiction—but especially WWII, to the point that D and family are weary of endless facts and repetition. The request: “Books with strong female characters in historical settings, but not WWII; or light literary fiction like The Correspondent and Mona’s Eyes.”

Jeff’s Pick:

• In the Time of Butterflies by Julia Alvarez
  • Focus: Real-life Mirabel sisters resisting Trujillo’s dictatorship in the Dominican Republic.
  • “It's a different, more literary version of Lady Spies, but based on real people in a different culture, a different dynamic that maybe you would be pleased to hear new factoids about at this point.” — Jeff ([06:18])

Rebecca’s Picks ("Book Riot Bingo Board" Selections):

• 2AM at the Cat’s Pajamas by Marie-Helene Bertino
  • Cozy, New Year's Eve-set literary fiction; young girl wants to sing jazz.
• The Elegance of the Hedgehog by Muriel Barbery
  • Parisian, quirky, “cozy, elegant is in the title. What do you want from me?” ([07:16])
• A Gentleman in Moscow by Amor Towles
  • Russian historical setting, charming relationships, gentle intrigue.
• Pachinko by Min Jin Lee
  • Multi-generational Korean-Japanese saga; “really a page turner,” “you learn a lot as you’re reading.” ([07:39])

Quote:
“We're doing a service that people can use to keep the bonds of friendship and fellowship strong.” — Jeff ([03:36])

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2. Audiobook for Family Road Trips (Young Kids, No Swears, Minimal Fantasy)

Timestamp: [10:17]–[14:30]

Listener Request:
Audiobook for a 6-year-old who loves animals/nature/facts (no swears, no kids in peril), a parent who likes compelling plots but not fantasy, and a picky, narration-sensitive adult.

Jeff’s Recommendations:

• House on the Cerulean Sea by TJ Klune
  • Sweet, magical foster home story; “affirming and charming and moving, quite funny.” ([12:00])
• The Parker Inheritance by Varian Johnson
  • Middle-grade heist/mystery digging into Black neighborhood history; “a really interesting, informative, illuminating time.” ([12:55])
• Bonus: Winnie the Pooh audiobooks, but “just don't do the last book… I don't need you or your partner to run off the road in tear-stricken blindness.” ([14:08], Jeff, tongue-in-cheek)

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3. Books with an Ocean’s Eleven/Heist Vibe

Timestamp: [14:30]–[20:11]

Listener Request:
Looking for books with the wit, cleverness, and puzzles of Ocean’s Eleven, Knives Out, or Mission Impossible—but no gore, no spicy romance, no animal/child abuse.

Jeff’s Picks:

• The Cartographers by Peng Shepherd
  • “Fantasy academia” with academic intrigue and a mysterious map. ([15:51])
• The Fellowship of Puzzle Makers by Samuel Burr
  • “Quite warm,” with a group living in a manor house creating and solving puzzles.

Rebecca’s Pick:

• Slough House Series by Mick Herron
  • “Really sharp and funny… these spies are like the slow horses. They've been kicked out of main MI5 life but then of course, they're the ones who always figure out what's actually going on.” ([17:50])
• My Sister, the Serial Killer by Oyinkan Braithwaite
  • Mystery/thriller with sharp humor.
• Agatha Christie (Murder on the Orient Express, etc.)
  • “They’re doing everything you want… she creates these aerodynamically, intricately perfect, frictionless, pleasing books.” — Jeff ([19:13])

Quote:
“If a reader can point us to a book that actually feels like Ocean’s Eleven, like—my kingdom for that, please.” — Rebecca ([18:59])

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4. Outdoorsy, Literary Reads for The “Hardest to Buy For” Husband

Timestamp: [20:11]–[24:02]

Listener Request:
He’s outdoorsy, likes Gierach and Peter Heller, also enjoyed Razor Blade Tears but couldn’t get into Fuzz (Mary Roach). Needs an engaging, nature-infused, “not too weird” book.

Rebecca’s Picks:

• Anything by Jane Harper ([20:51])
• A River Runs Through It by Norman Maclean
• The Unveiling by Quan Barry
  • “White Lotus meets Get Out” vibes set on an Antarctic cruise.
• Wild Dark Shore by James Bradley
  • “There's a mystery there. That's a good idea.” — Jeff ([22:29])

Jeff’s Pick:

• Riverman by Ben McGrath (Nonfiction)
  • “A reported story about this guy that basically lived in rivers up and down the Atlantic seaboard… mysterious and strange in its own turn.” ([23:02])

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5. Book Club Picks: Literary but Not Emotionally Devastating

Timestamp: [24:02]–[28:17]

Listener Request:
Something to thread “literary and interesting without being emotionally devastating.” Favorites include Telephone, Intermezzo, The Searcher, Heart, and The Lover.

Jeff’s Pick:

• The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett
  • “My most recommendable book of the century so far.” “I don’t think [it’s] emotionally devastating.” ([24:43])

Rebecca’s Picks:

• The Wilderness by Angela Flournoy
  • Follows four friends through decades, “further into the near future.” ([26:09])
• Anything by Kevin Wilson
  • Zany but heartful; always conversation fodder for book clubs.
• People Like Us by Jason Mott
  • “Really fresh and surprising… lots of good conversation to be had.” ([27:43])

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6. Under-the-Radar Book You Wish More People Had Read

Timestamp: [29:18]–[35:10]

Hosts’ Reflections:

• Rebecca: Wishes more readers would try quirky, “weird little literary books” especially by authors like Marie Helene Bertino (“2AM at the Cat’s Pajamas”), Katie Kitamura, and Colson Whitehead (“he’s doing fine but… could be read 10x as widely”). ([30:01])
• Jeff:
  • Even Cowgirls Get the Blues by Tom Robbins: “He was just having fun with the possibilities of the universe.”
  • Oreo by Fran Ross: “Feels like it could be published today and feel fresh… goes on a New York satire, journey, Quixote-esque adventure.”
  • Oscar and Lucinda by Peter Carey: “It's amazing. I love this book… wish more people knew about it. And today they do. Rebecca, that's the way podcasting works. It's terrific.” ([34:25])

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7. Cookbook Advice: Healthy, Practical, Not Fussy

Timestamp: [35:34]–[38:51]

Rebecca’s Picks:

• Something from Nothing by Alison Roman
  • “Shopping your pantry and cooking with basics.” ([36:23])
• Start Here by Sohla El-Waylly
  • Teaches core techniques; “recipes introduce you to new flavors and combinations.”
• Good Things by Samin Nosrat
  • For enjoyable group cooking; recipes also work for weeknights.
• Six Seasons of Pasta/Vegetables by Josh McFadden
  • “Follows a pretty repetitive formula… you can start to do it pretty quickly.”
• Collected works of Julia Turshen
  • Focused on next-overs: “making the recipe and then turning it into what she calls next overs, so you’re not eating the same thing the next day.”

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8. Literary Fiction Exploring Motherhood (Not a Downer) & Books About Brothers

Timestamp: [38:55]–[42:45]

Motherhood (by Rebecca):

• Claire Lombardo (multi-generational, “mothers get complete treatment,” especially The Most Fun We Ever Had)
• Nonfiction: Angela Garbes (Like a Mother, Essential Labor)
• Bonus: Splinters by Leslie Jamison (with caveat: “bit of a bummer but not about being a mom, about being a partner… lots of real motherhood stuff” — Jeff, [42:22])

Brotherhood (by Jeff):

• A River Runs Through It by Norman Maclean
• The Lowland by Jhumpa Lahiri
• East of Eden by John Steinbeck
• The Lost Man by Jane Harper
  • “Wonderful brother book at the same time.” ([41:27])

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9. Recommendations for Gift-Giving Parent: Under-the-Radar Romantasy, Queer Horror, & Meaty HistFic

Timestamp: [42:46]–[46:36]

Joan’s Dilemma:
Daughter wants a “new, under-the-radar Romantasy,” son craves queer dark horror short stories, parent seeks chunky, meaty historical fiction outside WWII.

Rebecca (HistFic):

• Great Circle by Maggie Shipstead
  • “Will give you a similar feeling to Covenant of Water… a lot of strands come together.” ([43:32])
• Jonathan Evison (various, Dickensian connections)

Jeff (Queer Horror & Romantasy; referred to Danika Ellis for horror recs):

• Model Home by Rivers Solomon (short stories, queer horror)
• Rain and Ruin by JD Evans (recent Romantasy)

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10. For the Impostor Syndrome-Afflicted Teacher

Timestamp: [48:05]–[53:12]

Rebecca:

• The Imposter Cure by Jessamy Hibberd
  • “Really practical tips… can be stuff like at the end of every workday, you write down what you did that day, so you have a record.” ([50:20])
• Life in Three Dimensions by Shigehiro Oishi
  • “Reflects on how we define a good life… meaning, happiness, psychological richness.”

Jeff:

• So Good They Can’t Ignore You by Cal Newport
  • “About being good… the simplest cure is to show a mirror: do you actually match the metrics that matter in your field?” ([48:34])

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11. Cozy Mysteries for Fans of Louise Penny & Maisie Dobbs

Timestamp: [53:12]–[54:57]

Jeff:

• The Broken Shore by Peter Temple
  • Australian detective fiction, award-winning; “feels like kind of right in the wheelhouse.”
  • “If you want to pick for yourself, look up the Gold (CWA) Dagger Awards for crime fiction.” ([54:41])

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12. Novels with the Vibe of Linklater’s Before Sunrise/Before Sunset

Timestamp: [55:01]–[58:52]

Rebecca:

• Light Years by James Salter
  • “As close as you can get to rolling up those three movies into one book.”
• I Married You for Happiness by Lily Tuck
  • Woman reflects on a lifelong marriage during a single night, after husband’s death.

Jeff:

• Nick and Nora’s Infinite Playlist by Rachel Cohn & David Levithan
  • “Two people meet, wander a city, talk about music. For my money, it’s a little too I-care-about-indie-bands, but does some of the same vulnerable conversation.” ([57:23])

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13. Poetry Collections + Short Essays/Criticism, Especially Queer & BIPOC

Timestamp: [59:02]–[61:41]

Rebecca’s Recommendations:

• Ross Gay (“Book of Delights,” “Book of More Delights”)
• Hanif Abdurraqib (essayist and poet; “essays are quite poetic; poetry is beautiful.”)
• Ada Limón (“An argument for poems that are accessible, make you feel something.”)
• Sarah Kay (“Wonderful reader, accessible poetry; check YouTube for live readings.”)
  • “When they talk about others you’ll see who’s influenced them—let yourself follow those threads.” ([60:41])

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “The narrative perpetual motion machine that is World War II historical fiction…” — Jeff ([04:49])
• “Get out your bingo cards friends, because I’m about to run the board of Book Riot Favorites.” — Rebecca ([06:18])
• “My kingdom for a book that actually feels like Ocean’s Eleven.” — Rebecca ([18:59])
• “Just don’t do the last [Winnie the Pooh] book. ... I don’t need you or your partner to run off the road in tear-stricken blindness and wrap yourselves around a tree.” — Jeff, dry wit ([14:12])
• On cookbooks, “You should be able to find something among that selection. Go to Barnes & Noble, pull all those off the shelf, see which one makes you happy.” — Rebecca ([38:51])
• “He was just having fun with the possibilities of the universe.” — Jeff, on Tom Robbins ([31:06])
• “It’s only impostor syndrome if you’re actually good or decent at the thing.” — Jeff ([49:13])

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Closing

The hosts express gratitude for listeners trusting them with their “reading time, hours, lives, your gift-giving, your family dynamics that may result from getting this book or that.” ([61:41])
Rebecca wishes “Godspeed to you in this holiday season. May the books be good.” ([62:15])

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Episode Structure Quick Reference

• [01:04] Show intro
• [02:12] First rec question (historical fiction fatigue)
• [10:17] Audiobooks for families
• [14:30] Heist/ocean’s 11 books
• [20:11] Outdoorsy, hard-to-buy-for reader
• [24:02] Book club picks (lit, not downers)
• [29:18] Under-the-radar favorites
• [35:34] Cookbooks
• [38:55] Motherhood & brotherhood fiction
• [42:46] Multi-person gift recs
• [48:05] Impostor syndrome/inspirational nonfiction
• [53:12] Cozy mysteries for Louise Penny/Maisie Dobbs fans
• [55:01] Novels with “Before Sunrise” vibes
• [59:02] Poetry with essays/crit
• [61:41] Wrap-up

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This episode is a must-listen for readers (and gift-givers) who crave targeted, creative, and reader-savvy recommendations delivered with compassion, wit, and the occasional “tap the Jane Harper sign.” Whether your dilemma is niche or universal, chances are you'll find your next great read—or at least a laugh—within.

Transcript

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[Jeff O'Neill]

This is the Book Riot podcast. I'm Jeff O'. Neill. And I'm Rebecca Schinsky and here with part two of our 2025 holiday recommendation show where we have asked listeners to write in with a recommendation request. It could be holiday related. It could just not. Could be for you, could be for someone else. Any holiday, no holiday. All of them accepted. But we do know that this time of year there's a lot more book buying for other people that happen than other types of year and we offer humbly our services in that pursuit. This is Part two. Rebecca, has anything changed since the last episode has been released?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't believe so.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay. Patreon 0 to well, read the book Riot newsletter. You can find all those [e-mail] Listen I guess we'll get right into it. Which of us should read this first one? I lost track in the intervening 7 minutes since we stopped recording last episode. It's a long read and you're a better reader than I am, so please do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is from Dee, who is coming to us with a desperate plea for help. Dee has a very dear friend who reads historical fiction and shares her reading knowledge. Dee says, do you know how many historical fiction books are about World War II?

[Jeff O'Neill]

We do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I We do, Dee. We feel your pain. Dee says. I thought we were done with any possible topics about World War II when all the Asian World War II historical fiction books hit shelves this year. Like thought we had reached the culmination, but indeed we have not. De now knows more about World War II refugees, resistance fighters, bakers, winemakers, artists and spies than any person should ever know. This is a Dear friend, but I need a break. I've been gently trying to move this friend to other books with the same tone of strong female characters, but without spy gear or weapons. The Correspondent was a big hit. I thought since most of the authors the main character writes to were dead, it might seem World War II adjacent. And it worked. Mona's Eyes and all of Fredrik Backman's books have also been big hits. But Ian McEwan's what We Can Know was just an okay match this year. So the request is for suggestions that are historical fiction but Not World War II, or light literary fiction like the Correspondent and Mona's Eyes. And this is all in service of Dee's own good mental health. And now for her teenage daughter, who doesn't want Dee to be repeating World War II facts to her anymore. We're keeping families together here on the Book Riot podcast.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We really are. We're doing a service that people can use to keep the bonds of friendship and fellowship strong. This might be a little bit more literary fiction than you were looking for, D. I'll admit that right away. But why don't we move continents? Just get away from the whole European theater, which you already did. But let's move to a different dictatorship. Maybe that's what the hook can be here. Because what I am recommending is Julia Alvarez's wonderful 1994 novel in the Time of Butterflies, which is historical fiction based on. It's a fictionalized account of real people. The Mirabel sisters, during Trujillo's dictatorship in the Dominican Republic. And these sisters became. I don't. I don't know what the right term of art here is, but resisters. And things happen to them and they became their own kind of figures. You're going to get a lot of things I think people like about World War II, that the stakes are high. Everything seems heightened. Right. In these sorts of moments. My fear is. And I think implicitly in your critique. And I'd say Rebecca and I's gentle critique. Not critique, but continued astonishment at the narrative perpetual motion machine that is World War II historical fiction. That there's. There's out there and that what people like there aren't just that It's World War II in the stakes, but they like the familiarity of World War II. Like. I kind of know. Like it becomes weirdly comforting. Is not the quiet world. But it feels comfortable. It feels familiar.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Comfortable is the right word.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Where every baker is a spy and every winemaker is a trader. Um. And they're all. The sisters are also Sisters who are spies and winemakers and traders.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Don't forget the lady librarians, Jeff.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Librarian, spy, traders again. I'm so glad they all fought. Assuming all these people did.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But there's a big, wide world out here, and this is a really good one to try. 344 pages. It's in translation, so make sure you get yourself an English copy. It tells you a little bit about the number of words you say. More in Spanish, because the Spanish edition is 427 pages. I've never seen it quite that dynamically. It's just a different language here. And maybe that will get her interested in historical fiction about other places. Alvarez has a wonderful back catalog. There's a wonderful world of Latin American, South American and Latino writing about all kinds of moments. Then you can move over to other places. But this one has. It's a different, more literary version of Lady Spies, but based on real people in a different culture, a different dynamic that maybe you would be pleased to hear new factoids about at this point. So that's my pick.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's a good pick. Get out your bingo cards, friends, because I'm about to run the board of Book Riot Favorites.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, are you going to use them all? You're seeing four here, Rebecca. It's like a cat who has nine lives. You just use 12 of them. Okay, do it. Do the things.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

2:00Am in the cat's Pajamas by Marie Helene Bertino. This is light literary fiction. Charming as all get out. Set in a small town, I believe, on Christmas Eve. No, New Year's Eve. About a young girl whose mother has died. Her father is like, doing the best he can. They are deeply involved in this local community, and this little girl's dream is to sing jazz on stage at a club called the Cat's Pajamas. It's perfect. Very cozy and sweet. Also in the light literary fiction realm, which your mention of Mona's Eyes reminded me. The Elegance of the Hedgehog by Muriel Barbary. Same publisher as Mona's Eyes. A similar, just like, kind of cozy, elegant is in the title. What do you want from me? Kind of.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that book is true Vanessa and I were talking about on the show. I think that book's a little bit stranger than we remember. I'd love to shoot someone. Shoot me an email if you've read it recently.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Podcast to combine literary, like light literary fiction and historical fiction. I'm going to take a page from Jeff o' Neill's book and recommend Amer Towles, Little Gentleman.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think a gentleman in Moscow is the is a really good idea. I wish I would have thought of that. I think that's a really good idea.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You're picking up history. You also get the really charming friendship between the main character and the young girl who's growing up in the hotel. And then if you want to issue your friend what will look like a challenge because the book is so big. Pachinko by Min Jin Lee, which I was very late to the party on, but is really a page turner and it's grounded in a part of history that a lot of us in the US and the west don't know a whole lot about. But Lee makes it possible for you to learn a lot about that as you're reading. It won't distance you from the narrative that you're not like an expert in the Time of the world that she's talking about. But yeah, those are those are my four and the cat's pajamas and Pachinko and Amer Tolls are all bingo board games here at the BR Pod.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think in the Time of Butterflies and Gentlemen in Moscow might be the two that are similar enough and different. I think with Pachinko Elegans and Hedged like you're getting a similar you're getting an enveloping narrative. But like I keep thinking about the intrigue right that's implicit in a World War II sort of spy situation. It's kind of tough to replic Ordinary.

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[Jeff O'Neill]

My Read Next Looking for an audiobook recommendation for my family that we can listen to together while on longer car rides. My partner is very open to just about anything as long as the compelling characters and a great plot. My daughter is 6, loves animals, nature and real life facts, but does not like swear words or stories about kids in trouble. I'm probably the toughest customer because I don't love fantasy. I want something that's either really well written, literary, a classic discuss, or somewhat informative or educational. Also, poor narration really bugs me. We listened to A Marriage at Sea this summer and that was a hit for all of us. I guess I'm resigned to a children's fantasy adventure story, but really prefer something more in the nature adventure zone. Appreciate any and all of your help. Rebecca actually read the question and had to amend on the Fly.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I was revising my answer on the Fly because I missed the part about your partner not liking swear words. I'm a little out of my bag on this one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Let me take this. You have the Night Circus here. Tried that with my kids and they're a little too young still and they're like 4 and 12. I guess it's been a couple years. I think it's going to be. I love the Night Circus. I've said over and over again that's my partner Michelle's favorite audiobook experience of all time. It's not just her favorite book of all time, but extremely important document to her that she returns to over and over again. So I do not mean to besmirch Rebecca's pick here. I just think it's not quite the thing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And my original picks were the Andy Weir, the Martian Improv.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You know what, I wasn't going to say anything but I wondered but I.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I missed the part about not liking swearing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, and there's not that much in the Andy Weir. I think that might be a little hard for a six year old to follow. Maybe I'm wrong. I could be difficult, but the six.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Year old hung through a marriage at sea. So like what kind of zone are we in here?

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's a. You know what, that's a really good point, Rebecca. I'm not. I'm not sure. Anyway, I'm going to give a couple maybe try out the Night Circus. Give it a shot. The the narration by the wonderful immortal Jim Dale is worth the audible or whatever credit alone. I've got to and I can vouch for them, having listened to them with my kids in a long car journey. House on the Cerulean Sea talked about many times by TJ Klune. It is a story about a basically a foster home for magical kids who have been ostracized and in this world it's Canada, but not and they come under the care of a, I don't know, someone who's in charge of this house, an adult who's in charge of the house that can sympathize in the way that you can. And it's affirming and charming and moving, quite funny. The characters are easy to imagine and fall in love with. I think it works for a six year old as well. On the More of I don't know. This is more of a heist mystery situation called the Parker Inheritance by Marian Johnson. And this is also a middle grade book. I'll say both of these. My partner Michelle and I both enjoyed a great deal on their own terms. We probably wouldn't have listened to them just the two of us, but we're thrilled and into and excited to have another 45 minutes of driving when we had these audiobooks on, which is the only recommendation I can really give for a book like this. But there is a a will, a treasure hunt. A couple of kids start exploring the history of black neighborhoods and towns and there's more to the story of how these places came to be and the people they know. They dig up some tennis courts, they find some clues, they break into some local historical societies and it's a really interesting, informative, illuminating time. I love them both. So that's the Parker Inheritance by Marian Johnson and House on the Cerulean Sea by TJ Klune. I can also say if you haven't done the Winnie the Pooh stuff on audio, it's terrific. Just don't do the last book. Just don't do it. It doesn't exist. Just don't do the last one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Or be ready to be driving along and having just a full stop.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Make sure, you know, make sure you know that you're not getting the last Winnie the pooh book by A.A. milne because I don't need you or your partner to run off the road in tear strength, blindness and wrap yourselves around a tree based on a recommendation we gave you. That's not what I'm looking for here. But they are wonderful. Wonderful on audio too.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay, next recommendation is coming from a listener who gave us like several sets of possibilities and then the freedom to pick. To pick one based on like what would fit in well or that we haven't talked about from other listeners. So the question that I pulled from them is that they're looking for books that feel like the movies. Ocean's Eleven, Knives out, the Game, and Mission Impossible. Something well written and fun that doesn't make me feel dumber for having read it, thinking about what I like in the movies. They have tongue in cheek, humor, clever, some suspense, and most have puzzles for the viewer to engage with or at least that the character needs to work through, thinking more in the upmarket realm of things. But they've listened to old recommendation shows and Monuments Men seems to fit the idea. So they say they're open to anything. Prefers no gore, no super spicy romance, no animal abuse, child abuse. And also wanted to share with you, Jeff, a recommendation for their all time favorite running book. I did take note of Once Upon a Runner by John L. Parker, a bit of a cult classic after being self published and sold out of the trunk of his car at races.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And you did read Ingrained, but no note on Ingrained here, so I'm not sure what to do with that. Also, you're right, Monumentsman worked. I don't. Why did this person not try that? That's not rhetorical. It seems to fit this idea. So I'm not sure.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Give it a go.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Yes, I recommended that and I will continue to recommend that. You may have heard me talk about on a previous show the Cartographers by paying Shepherd. So this is little. It's not dark academia. It's like fantasy academia where there is a map making, I don't know, lineage that has a non Newtonian quality to it. I'm trying to figure out how to be care very careful about this, but there's a group of friends that went to college together. They get back together to try to solve a mystery about a map. And I really enjoyed it. It's more commercial, it's not very. It's not super literary, but I really found it to be a good time. And then another one that's more cozy. It's called the Fellowship of Puzzle Makers by Samuel Burr. This one is. The main character is, I think they're an orphan somehow. They were take out. Like this fellowship of puzzle makers is actually like a residential fellowship. Like they live in this big English manor and they do puzzles and write crosswords and it's the thing that binds them together and then the matriarch of this particular society dies and there leave some unanswered questions and the main character has to go through a series of games and riddles to find it. It's quite warm. I really had a good time with it, I think. I don't. I guess where I came back on this is I like both my recommendations here, else I wouldn't have made them. But in terms of a straight up Ocean's Eleven but book. Rebecca, I've got. I don't have one. I do not have a bullseye.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't either.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm trying to hit the outside of the ring here. So that's one I would also like some other recommendations for from the listeners.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Even recently you did a roundup of books about heists for a flagship newsletter. And like, I mean, Ocean's Eleven is the perfect heist story and I have not come across a book that comes close to that. Even the best heist books I've read still don't come close to Ocean's Eleven.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I like your spy idea. I like your spy idea here. Sorry, just to transition back to you. I think that's. That's a good bit of an orthogonal.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think maybe the Slough House series by Mick Herron. I don't know if you have seen the Slow Horses TV series on Apple TV, but it's based on Slough House. McCarron is a writer of the show and our colleague Clint has been plowing through the Slough House books. I've read little chunks of them and seen some excerpts and the writing is really, really sharp and funny. It's clever. They're spies, so they're trying to solve things. It's not a like Robert Langdon symbology kind of puzzle, but there is stuff that they're trying to work through and there's the added fun of like, not only are they just kind of cheeky in how they're written, but these spies are like the slow horses. They' ones who have been kicked out of like, main MI5 life for one reason or another. And everybody kind of disses them and thinks that they can't get the job done. But then of course, they're the ones who always figure out what's actually going on and manage to like, stop the plot or capture the bad guy or whatever. Just a really, really good time. I think those are worth a look also for, I mean, more on the like mystery thriller side, but funny. And you won't feel dumber for Having read it, My Sister the Serial Killer by Oyinkin Braithwaite rings those bells. Like to humorous but to also be sharp and have a compelling, surprising plot, I think that might be worth a look. But yeah, if a reader can point us to a book that actually feels like Ocean's Eleven, like My kingdom for that, please.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I said this not last week, but the last regular show. Sometimes you shouldn't assume. Never assume. As Katharine Hepburn's character says in Death Set. If you haven't read Murder on the Orient Express or some of the AAA Agatha Christie books, do them because they're doing everything you want, but it's murder rather than stealing a jewel or something like that. But in terms of like it's light but you don't feel dumb. It's put together well, it's exciting. You can try to figure out if you've never done an Agatha Christie. Like there is a reason she sold more books than anyone of all. Like it's not a mistake. Like she creates these aerodynamically, intricately perfect, frictionless, pleasing books and you can see why people go and read 30 or 40 them. Not that I may have, may or not have done that at some point in my recent life, but there's a lot for you there. So if you haven't tried it, like, like start with just pick up Murder on their express and like it can do the thing for you. I think a lot of ways as.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm frantically writing myself a note to make sure we get Agatha Christie into zero to well read sometimes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean we have to, right? Yeah, we have. Her own story is fascinating enough. We covered that on Annotate or you wrote that episode, but that was a really fun, super fun to do. I'm up next, I believe is my read. Looking for book recommendations for my husband for our annual book exchange on Christmas Eve. He is not a constant reader, is not married to a specific genre. He loves nature and being outdoors and enjoyed some Gierach as well as Peter Heller books. Also like Razor Blade Tears by SA Cosby, but was not able to hang with Fuzz by Mary Roach. That actually is a meaningful data triangulation that we've got there. Any assistance would be great. He's the hardest in the family to buy for.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, you kicked off our last episode recommending Jane Harper, so I'm going to do it here.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Just, just, just tap the sign. We're tapping the Jane Harper song anytime.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Somebody likes Peter Heller but they haven't read Jane Harper or vice versa. Like that's the obvious pairing or go back to tilt.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We mentioned tilt. If you hear us say Peter Heller right now, also look at tilt.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Maybe at the scene A River Runs Through. It might be an option for him for loving nature and the outdoors. And then my kind of left field pick, but just might be worth a look is the unveiling by Quan Berry set in Antarctica. It's about a young blood who is a film scout and she is on a luxury cruise experience in Antarctica with it's kind of White Lotus in its vibes. White Lotus meets Get Out, I think is the blurb that I've seen. And that's not wrong. So compelling and a little weird, but a wonderful outdoor setting that also we don't get a lot of. In fiction, you don't get a whole lot of stories set in Antarctica because there's like, no, nobody there, nothing to do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Where do you go, Bernadette, that she goes to Antarctica.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, that's right. They do go to Antarctica.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's the only other one I've got. I was trying to think of other ones. That's the only poll I could think.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, or they're like sailing around near Antarctica in that. The John Grand Tall Ships book.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, and then Wild Dark Shore, they're up in the Arctic Circle, but not quite.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No, that's. They're near Antarctica.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's where they are. They're down there. Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, like Australia, New Zealand, but yeah, maybe, maybe actually, maybe even Wild Dark Shore. Yeah, for this person.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. There's a mystery there. That's a good idea. I'm glad we almost had it together. The one I had, I was thinking Canoes, Boats and Rivers with Kirakin and Peter Heller. And so I came up with riverband by Ben McGrath, which is nonfiction. Ben McGrath, I think is a writer for the Atlantic. I'm sorry, I can't remember off the top of my head, but he's one of these long form journalists and I like the long form journalists that write a book. And this is about a man. It's a true story, I should say. It's a reported story about this guy that basically lived in rivers up and down the Atlantic seaboard and elsewhere and became a local legend. And he disappears at one point and McGrath is trying to figure out what happened to him. A fascinating portrait of these places, these liminal spaces, you know, along the riverbeds and there's like communities and infrastructure to support people that travel a lot more in rivers than I would have ever thought possible. Like, we're living in Hannibal, Missouri. Some of us still apparently really fascinating, beautiful, mysterious and strange in its own turn. But I really liked it. I did it on audio, so I'm not sure if that meets that outdoor adventure thing. But there is a mystery element too. But I think for this kind of reader, I think I know this kind of reader where they would like to the it's what am I trying to say? It's an ad that it's a real story even if it's not quite as narratively perfect or like page turner y But there's a lot to learn and a lot to know and I find it very compelling. So that's riverman by Ben McGrath.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Nice. Let's see. This is my read from Ilana. Looking for books to discuss with a book club. Her group has enjoyed Telephone Intermezzo, the Searcher and Heart the Lover. We Love a Lily King Shout out. And they have the House in the Cerulean Sea on deck for December. Looking for some suggestions to add to the M. Bonus points if you can thread the needle of literary and interesting without also being emotionally devastating. A good caveat.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's like wanting sugar free hot chocolate to some degree. And I understand what you mean. I don't think the Vanishing Half by Brennan Bennett is emotionally devastating. I wouldn't put it in that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's a good pick.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I picked it as our at our Pals event as my most recommendable book of the century so far. So congratulations to me for holding off on it this long. It's about a pair of twin sisters who grow up in Louisiana and then take different journeys and different things happen to them. So implicit right away there for a book club is nature versus nurture stuff. In my experience of teaching books, all you need to do is wind up the nature versus nurture duck and let it go. And you can sit back, you can relax and those 18 year olds will do your whole seminar for you. So I can only imagine that you would have a similar experience here. And it's a real the characters are really great. It has a good plot and then beautiful lighting, writing. And Brit Bunnett is, you know, she has what she have still two books.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's just two. Yeah. The Mothers and the Vanishing. Hell.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Again, I don't want to have the, you know, ask the wind up authors to shoot out Zoltar like new books for me. But I would, I would be very happy for a new Brett Bennett book. So that's the Vanishing Half is my pick for your book club there, Elena.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's a good pick. What were you teaching when you would wind him up and let him go on nature versus Nurture.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, it wasn't nature versus Nature. It's the Greek equivalent of that of fate versus free will. It's kind of the same idea, just sort of.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And if you're interested in that, you can hear our Oedipus the King episode of Zero to well read.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, you definitely can.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I love the vanishing half for this pick other things that will give your club a lot to talk about. More recent Releases the Wilderness by Angela Flournoy Just to out this year about a group of four women who have been friends for decades. And it follows them through decades of friendship and into the near future into I think 2028. There is some emotional devastation, but the whole book is not emotionally devastating. So take that for what you will. Flournoy is so sharp. It's hard to write a book that moves around between four or five or six characters points of view and keeps them all distinct and recognizable. And she does that that really beautifully and subverted my expectations at several turns. Like when you've read a lot of books or you've seen a lot of movies, you know, you have moments sometimes where you're like, oh, I I know what's happening next. Or like I I think I see the writing on the wall. And every time that I thought I knew what Flournoy was going to do next, she did something different, which is a wonderful feeling. But I think also a lot of fodder for book club conversation there of like what did you see that coming? What do you think about that turn that she took? Kevin Wilson. We just love him here. But the I think pick anything from the Kevin Wilson catalog because there's always something like zany or slightly off about the world, but the characters are always fully human and it'll give you a lot of entrance to conversation. And this year I also really liked People Like Us by Jason Mott God damn.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I need I really. Okay. Anyway. Yeah, I want to get to that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You do need to get to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm frustrated that I haven't frustrated with myself.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Like a It's a slightly weird like meta fiction about a guy who has recently won the Big Book Award, as Jason Mott did a couple of years ago, and is muddling through his experience after that through a couple different lenses. I also found it to be really fresh and surprising. It was my first time reading Jason Mott and it made me want to go back and pick up was it Hell of a book was the one he won for but I think lots of good conversation to be had about the three of those.

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[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music. You look just as natural enjoying us at age 13 as you do 55. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever. This is a great question. Thank you so much. Whoever asked this, we didn't get the name into the document. Do you have a favorite under the radar book that you wish more people had have read? I'm not sure. We did do our tenses there.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Have you heard of Barbara King Solver?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think so. Bertino. You talk about Bertino. I think that's a great one and it captures a lot of what we like and also what people anyway, go do it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

My answer to this question is like, there's not like one book. It's more that I generally wish that more people would pick up. Like the weird little book that we talked about in the previous recommendation episode. These like literary books that defy easy categorization. Like Marie Helene Bertino, like Katie Kitamura. Honestly, like Colson Whitehead. Like he's doing fine but I think he could be read 10 times as widely and people maybe don't under. Like people don't know know that he's as accessible as he can be. And so that's what I wish. Like I don't know if it's branding that publishing needs to work on or maybe we can get the TikTok kids on it. But like that's my general wish. More than any one book that I hope that I wish more people had read. It's the like I just wish because it's so enriching, at least in my experience. The like the literary fiction and the stuff that you can't slot lot easily into one category are the best reading experiences that I have. And so I wish more people would do those. And those are just a couple of.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The authors on my list, I more went to the river of time swiftly flows and things go past and some of them get remembered and some of them don't. I was thinking about Tom Robbins again in Reading Midnight's Children and Shadow, the new Pynchon, Shadow Ticket. And Robbins does that stuff, but it's a little more just to have fun, right? Which again, I love what Pynchon and Rushdie are doing and I'm glad they exist. And they are probably quote, unquote, worth more than Tom Robbins. But I read Tom Robbins at a very important age for me. 14, 15, 16. And it felt like he was just having fun with the possibilities of the universe and. And the language is fun. The ideas are silly and sacred, profound and profane by turn. And I'm worried, Rebecca, that we're going to move on and he's not going to be someone that people read right. People are going to read Vonnegut and they should read Vonnegut. But Robbins is a little more of a jester and he's a little more poking fun at the universe, but also saying, isn't the universe grand? And I really value that. Oreo by Fran Ross. I think I've talked about this on the show before. 1974 novel by a journalist. Fran Ross was also a joke writer for Richard Pryor for a little while.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Nice.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This is out. This feels like I think this could be published today and feel fresh and new. The main character is a mixed race, mixed ethnicity woman who goes to New York to try to find her Jewish father, whose name is Sam Schwartz. Turns out there's a lot of Sam Schwartz's in the phone book in New York in 1974. So she goes sort of on a New York satire, journey Quixote esque adventure through race and class and ethnicity and urbanity. It is modeled on the Ship of Theseus myth. If you know anything about that, you could have might imagine the Ship of Theseus myths, of course, like how many times can replace a part of the Ship of Theseus and still have it be Theseus's ship. Very interesting stuff. It was out of print. Harriet Mullen rediscovered it and I think it was. Grove brought it back into print 10, 12 years ago. So that's Oreo by Fran Ross. And then my last one is Oscar and Lucinda by the great Australian writer Peter Carey, who. They will not forget him in Australia because he's like. I'm trying to think of who the equivalent of would be like a Philip Roth type character. Like this 70s, 80s this one. It won the Booker Prize in 1988. So it's been up there. And it was on the short list for that Best of Booker that we were talking about for Midnight's Children. Oscar and Lucinda are characters. They meet on a ship on the way to Australia from England. Lucinda is the owner of a glass factory and she's returning for a commercial trip. And Oscar is the son of an evangelical. And I lose all of my English evangelicals. They have names I don't respond to because they don't mean anything to me. And they make a bet. She bets him that he cannot transport a glass church from Sydney up into the interior of Australia. What? Yeah. And then they try to do it together.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Great.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's amazing. I love this book. I don't remember how I discovered it. I read it in the mid-90s, I think I read. I probably got on the list of 50 Great Contemporary Books from around the world or something. And I discovered Peter Carey. The other book I love, the True History of the Kelly Gang, which is terrific. But Oscar and Lucinda by Peter Carey. I wish more people knew about it. And today they do. Rebecca, that's the way podcasting works. It's terrific. Thank you, anonymous person, for giving me a chance to rant and rave about three.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Someday we need to sit down and just do an episode about the lists of great books that led you to this reading life and the Barnes and Noble paperback Favorite table and the Oprah lists that have shaped me. These are the stories we tell repeatedly.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The book Cairns on the side of the trail paths that we found that sort of kept us going and gave.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Us the number of times that you've been like, I first read this when I was an insufferable 16 year old and I got it off a list. Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And look. And look what good has done me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Listen, sometimes you get reinforcement for the choices you made. How don't you read?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, I should read this because. Yeah, I don't have anything here. Looking for some cookbook suggestions for a friend? Friend was grumbling about needing some new recipes into their home rotation. Ideally, the recipes are healthy. Ish. Don't all call for some ingredient that you'll use once and never again. Aren't hands on for long periods of time. I feel like Rebecca, this could we call this. I think you could move some units of a book that like just puts all of this on the plate. Or is this a thing that people are doing already? Good writing. Any suggestions for changing up Slow cooker is a magic machine. I'm just sort of going through the rest. Thanks for all you do do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, the slow cooker is a magic machine, but you're right, there are not great slow cooker cookbooks. There are slow cooker cookbooks, but I have not come across didn't they do this better?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I guess we were too. We weren't doing this when the slow cook did the slow cooker. Ever had an air fryer moment?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it did, but the cookbooks are just not exciting for the slow cooker. I have not. I'm going to start with one I haven't seen yet. So it wasn't originally on my list, but I heard that the new Alison Roman, Something for Nothing or Something from Nothing is very much about, like, shopping your pantry and cooking with basics. So, like, I think that goes right to your it's not calling for some ingredient that you'll use once and never again. She relies on you to like, just always have anchovies in your pantry, though. So, like, take that for what you will. The recipes in my experience with Alice and Roman can be like variable amounts of time, but you're not going to spend hours and hours in the kitchen. The ones that came top of mind for me are Start Here by Sola El Whaley. It's a huge book and it's structured to, like, teach a person who doesn't really know how to cook how to cook. So it introduces you to different flavors and then how to combine them. It starts with techniques and then moves into building and combining those techniques. So if your friend has a cooking foundation already, the thing that I found really fun about it was being able to be like, oh, I know how to do these things, but I've never thought about doing them in this way or putting them together before. Good Things by Samin Nosrat, also new this year. Really wonderful. It's about cooking for groups, like having a casual, enjoyable dinner party where you're not stressed out all the time. You could pull some of those recipes into your, like, your daily, you know, dinner cooking. The book that I've been cooking from the most this year is Six Seasons of Pasta by Josh McFadden. He also has one called Six Seasons of Vegetables. They are organized as they sound, by seasonally available ingredients. And at least the pasta one follows like a pretty repetitive formula from one recipe to the next, so that once you get familiar with how he constructs these, how he puts together a meal, you can start to do it pretty quickly. Also, the Collected Works of Julia Tershin, which one of the books is called I Think now and Again, I can never remember today. And again, something like that. And it's about making the recipe and then how to turn it into what she calls next overs. So you're not eating the same thing the next day, but reusing those ingredients for something else. She's very practical, grounded home cook. You should be able to find something among that selection. Go to Barnes and Noble, pull all of those off the shelf, see which one makes you happy.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Cool. I guess you should read the next, then.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Next question's from Rachel, who's currently on maternity leave. Interested in literary fiction that explores motherhood without being a total bummer. Absolutely loved Night Bitch, but I'm looking for happier vibes. Fair Rachel says. Recently enjoyed Matrescence by Lucy Jones and the Girls who Grew Big by Leila Motley. I have two boys and would also enjoy recommendations that explore the brother brother relationship. Recently enjoyed the Sunflower Boys by Sam Walkman. I think this is going to be a little more for you, at least. The brothers.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, brothers. We don't get brother questions or brother talks that often, so I'm glad. Thank you, Rachel, and congratulations to you. I'm going to tap the Riverrun through its side again. If you haven't read that book or seen the film, it very much is about brothers who care about each other and are quite different. And sometimes it's not enough. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. Quite perceptive, actually. All three of these are actually kind of in the similar. That you once were close and remain close at heart doesn't mean you're close in other ways. So the Lowland by Jhumpa Lahiri, which is her second novel, has been forgotten a little bit. Shortlisted for the Man Booker Prize and the National Book Award. About two brothers who go off into the world and have different ideologies and care about different things and what comes of it. And then, of course, I mean, there's the brother Karamazov. So I'm not going to say that like it's in the name, you know, I don't think I need to recommend that to you. But only slightly less well known. But still, I think people don't know it as well because it's Grapes of Wrath and everything Else by John Steinbeck. There is going to be a new east of Eden adaptation at some point in the future, I believe. Next time. What? Who's doing it? Zozia Mamet, Florence Pugh. I know, but who's the director? Is it Zozia Mamet? It's one of those actresses turned Directors that's quite smart about these things. Anyway, one of the great endings of all time. It is a wonderful brother family saga novel. Neither. None of them, can I say are tragedies. Maybe River Runs Through It. None of them are sort of yay brothers or boo brothers, but. But it's not as simple. And especially amongst brothers, it can be the case where it feels like it should be easier. And then when it's not, what do you do? Also, I'm going to tap the Jane Harper sign because the Lost man is a wonderful brother book at the same time, if you care about that. So there's a Brother's picks for you.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The east of Eden adaptation is being written by Zoe Kazan.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It was close. Zozia Mamet, Zozi Kazan. I mean, you can see why I was wrong in that I was directionally correct.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, you were. Books about motherhood. Not something that I read a whole lot about Rachel. But I've really liked Claire Lombardo's books. They're more encompassing, like multi generational family sagas, but the mothers get complete treatment in them. So the most fun we ever had is my favorite of her two, I believe. And then on the nonfiction tip, since you mentioned matrescence, you might want to look at the works of Angela Garbus, both like a Mother and Essential labor, which bring a feminist reading and exploration to, like, the meanings and functions of contemporary motherhood in society, Specifically in American societies where there's not a lot of social support for mothers or much of a social safety net. So I think those might be worth a look for you.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I might. I might throw in Splinters by Leslie Jamison, which is a big bit of a bummer of a book, but not about being a mom, about being in a partner.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But there is a lot of motherhood stuff.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's a lot of real. I said it's like the great motherhood divorce novel and Covid. Sorry, memoir. All kind of wrapped up into one on that side, too. All right. I can't remember who read what.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's you.

[Jeff O'Neill]

My read. Okay. I've been a fan of the show for years. Thank you so much. I generally give a book to each of my adult children on Christmas Eve and could use a little help. This year I'm looking for a newer, under the radar romantic for my daughter. She has read all the popular series released in the past few years. Oh, Lord. I saw when I read this, I was like, oh, Lord, not that's bad. It's like, what are we gonna do? But I did a little review.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

How can we help you?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, also if you could recommend a short story collection for my son of really dark horror, preferably queer, that would be awesome. Not an avid reader, but when he does read it's generally horror. For myself, I'd really love a big meaty historical fiction. Something like Covenant Water would be great. I'm a sucker for World War II historical fiction, but would like something different. Maybe In A Time of Butterflies by Julia Alvarez Joan. I understand you probably won't have time for any or all of these requests, but any suggestions would be appreciated to have a wonderful holiday season. Thanks so much Joan.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm just going to go straight for you, Joan. I would recommend Great Circle by Maggie Shipstep. Big, big chunky book set slightly before World War II, but like roams into the early 1900s about a woman who from the time she's a girl knows that she wants to become a pilot at a time when girls are not allowed to grow up to be women who are pilots. But she works it out. She is a single woman at a time where marriage is the thing that's expected of her. She does have some experiences that I think she does get married, but like an unconventional life set up in unconventional ways with a really single minded and independent pursuit. I just imagined that Katharine Hepburn would play this character if it were ever an adaptation. But I think it will give you a similar feeling to Covenant of Water where it's like a lot of strands come together. A couple of Jonathan Ebison's books are also worth a of lot. Look for that. I don't have titles top of mind because I'm just thinking about him right now, but I would take a look at a couple of those. He likes to do that same thing that we kind of talk about as Dickensian that Covenant of Water does where you've got all these storylines at multiple across continents and different times of life and then right at the end ties them all up and reveals the connections and it's magical. So I think start with Maggie Shipstead but then take a look at Jonathan Edwards.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's a good idea. I haven't read either of these, so I'm not going to do a big recommendation summation because you can google them. But the first one is for your son I pulled from Danica Ellis's Horror Rex. She covers queer books up and down and sideways for us and one of the recent ones that she recommended was Model Home by River Solomon. Sounds like a really fun. Well, not fun but like compelling haunted house, like mystery that turns many of the expectations upside down. Then I did a little digging for the Romantasy because I got kind of like archaeologically interested. Like what was a Romantasy that was published within the last six years but doesn't have a billion reviews? And the one I came up with was is Rain and ruin by J.D. evans. And I have to say that reading the synopsis, boy does it sound like a romantic. And that's probably what your daughter is looking for. So look up Rain and Ruin by JD Evans and Model Home by River Solomon. And I would especially like to know was my spidey sense at all correct in my sort of this is this is what a library like Reader's advisory. Librarians and booksellers do a lot of this without them having read the book. You and I are pulling mostly from books we have read to our to our great delight. But also we are only ourselves, which is the great tragedy of really life. But also when it comes to recommending books, the way that we do is that we really only are trying to if we can we pull from something we know. But in this case, I didn't have a recommendation that I felt comfortable with personally. So those are my two Black Friday Savings are here at the Home Depot.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Which means it's time to add new.

[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

Toast the holidays in a new way and raise a glass of Rumchata, a delicious creamy blend of horchata with rum. Enjoy it over ice or in your coffee. Rum chicken chada. Your holiday cocktails just got sweeter. Tap or click the banner for more. Drink responsibly. Caribbean rum with real dairy cream, natural and artificial flavors. Alcohol 13.75% by volume 27.5 proof. Copyright 2025 Agave Loco Brands, Pojoaquee, Wisconsin. All rights reserved. All right, I'll read this next one from a longtime listener who's who finally has a reason to write in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

For a write in, you don't need a reason, just ask for one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I know. We're so delighted that you're here. Here a friend of theirs is a high school teacher who is mid career, very thoughtful and lives emphatically by her intersectional politics. Though she is more than qualified for her job, she struggles with imposter syndrome and asked me for some reading recommendations to help her overcome these feelings. I have a few of my own, but I'd love to hear what the experts think. I don't know about that, but we're gonna try. Where do you want to start? You have a good pick here, I think.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean, you have the one that has the name in it. So like that's of kind. Kind of. It's not really cheating, but it feels weird to recommend anything else. But that's just the way the cookie crumbled in this reading. I was thinking, okay, what's the. There's only two ways out of imposter syndrome. One is like ostrich head, like just put your head in the sand and just like fake it until you just die or whatever. And the other one is to actually get good. And so I have so good they can't ignore you by Cal Newport, which is really about being good. Like get good at what you do and what you know. How can you evaluate that? I think the most useful thing about imposter syndrome is. Or I think the simplest cure is like for Don Quixote, just show a mirror like you are actually not a knight errant Alfonso de Kahana. You are a raggedy old man that has a bunch of tin on you and you really should shave in this situation. It's like, what are the metrics that really can or what are the qualifications? What are the performance outcomes that really matter in your field and do you match them? And if you do, let yourself give yourself some slack. And then also like, you can get promoted, you can get a job, you can get all sorts of skin. But like, it's also about being good. That's the other thing. It's only imposter syndrome if you're actually good or decent at the thing. It doesn't count if you're skating by and you're not doing the work. And you are a catch me if you're canning, which doesn't sound like the situation here. But how can you be good and cultivate your practice, cultivate your skills? And trust me, having done this a long enough time, you do enough reps, you can kind of tell if you're doing a good job. If you know your job well enough to know for yourself if you're doing a good job. I think the imposter cure can go away or at least abate in those moments.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I also really love so Good They Can't Ignore youe Because it's the antithesis of Just do the follow your bliss. And he draws on really compelling research that says that as we get good at things, we come to like them more. And the more we like them, the better we're going to get at them, likely. So you can kind of create this virtuous cycle. I can imagine that being a high school teacher might just make you feel perpetually like you're out over your skis because there's so much to do. But some realization of like, no, I am doing the things they ask of me and therefore I am good at my job. You know, and just some looking at external metrics rather than what is your feeling about it can be really helpful. The one that you mentioned that is just like the go to for this is the Imposter Cure by Jessamy Hibbard. I believe she's a therapist, like some kind of mental health professional. We read this for a company book club several years ago. It's really good and there are really practical tips in it. Like some of it is the philosophy of why do people feel that they are imposters? Women and people of color are more likely to have this feeling because of a lot of a variety of variety of social training. But then how do you start to push back against it? And it can be stuff like at the end of every workday, you write down like everything that you did that day or three things you accomplished that day or something so that you have a record to go back on the days that you feel like you don't do anything and actually show yourself the accumulations of what you've done. That's been helpful for people at our company. One of my best friends does this regularly. Like those kinds of techniques. Your friend might also want to Reach for Life in Three Dimensions by Shigehiro Oishi, which was one of our shared favorites earlier this year. That's about.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That was this year?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it was the start of this year. Can you believe that?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh my God.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Time is a flat circle. But it's about what are we Each looking for in how we define a good life. And I think you can map this onto a good career. It do we want something that's happy? Do we want something that's meaningful? Do we want something that's psychologically rich? I imagine a high school teacher has a lot of meaning and a lot of psychological richness and like to be able to reflect on how those things feed into your friend's life and the meaning she's deriving from it, but also the meaning that she's producing for other people and contributing to by helping educate them more. Might also do some work towards helping her feel like she's as good as it sounds like she actually is. But I think the imposter cure is like the straight ahead one. You'll know your friend better for like how orthogonal or philosophical to get.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, yeah, I've got an answer for the next one so why don't you read it?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. This one is somebody who's shopping for an elderly cousin for Christmas. Cousin has mentioned that he really loves the Louise Penny books and the Maisie Dobbs, Jekyll and Winspeare series. This is way out of their per wheelhouse Looking for a good comp thinking maybe something British or off the beaten track for a US based reader considered Tana French but is wondering is there something better out there? Anthony Horowitz, God of the Woods I'm floundering.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This gave me a chance to dust off some archaeology too because as soon as I saw this I had an idea which is there is something called the Duncan Lowry Dagger Award, which is basically the booker for crying writing for like the greater uk. And so I started looking around on that prize winning list and I came across this pick, the Broken Shore by author Peter Temple. Now it sounds like if the kind of person you're looking for, if they like Peter Temple, they can go rip off a whole bunch of them. And there's a lot but this one I just like the setup. So he's an Australian writer, I don't know if I said that already. A homicide detective who gets injured and he sort of gets sent back to his hometown to recuperate. Kind of put out to sea it sounds like like and decides to start rebounding the old family house and himself. But turns out everywhere you go there's always a crime to solve and he's got to go solve a crime of a local wealthy person. So it feels like kind of right in the wheelhouse. I'd love to know if this is good. People really seem to like this book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Nice research there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This also might be a good. If you want to go pick for yourself, go look up the Golden Daggers and look at finalists and winners to see if there's someone that you'd like to pick out for yourself. I thought so, right? I mean, you almost have to give a name. I was like, why don't, shouldn't we have a war called the Gold Dagger?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You definitely put that in your email. Signature. Winner of the golden.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Winner of the Golden Wielder. Any. I guess any. Any. The current winner should be called current wielder of a Golden Dagger. I'll read the next one. We got just a few left here. I love your show and feel confident you're the right people to ask for for help. I'm forever looking for a book that feels like Linklaters Before Sun. As soon as I read this, Rebecca, I was like, oh, no. I mean, yes, but no. In other words, not a similar story, but same vibe feeling. Can you help?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm going to try to help.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Because you know, we do love the link later before series Light Years by James Salter is as close as you can get to rolling up those three movies into.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's a great idea. I love this. I love this movie from you. This is a great book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is like also just one of my favorite books, like any excuse to talk about James Salter ever. But people who have been in relationships with each other for a long time and you see the sparkly, like, summer of their relationship and you also see them in the winter of their relationship. So you get the before sunrise, like early romance. And you also get the before midnight, like, wow, things are getting kind of dark and are we going to make it and what's going to happen? And Salter, just a writer's writer in the way that Linklater and Hawke and Julie Delpy together are writers, writers, filmmakers, filmmakers who are just doing people thinking about and talking about their lives. That's my number one with a bullet, like far and away above anything else. I married you'd For Happiness by Lily Tuck is also, I think, maybe a good one for that vibe. Woman's husband, after they've been married for a very long time, the woman's husband has died. And the whole book, which is small, takes place over the course of the evening after his death where she's like sitting with his body reflecting on their life, waiting to call the ambulance and, you know, do the things that you have to do for a couple of hours just to think about their love, mistakes they made, lies. She Told secrets she kept. Like it's a real.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's like. It's like it's going to be the last of the Linklater ones. It's going to be like something like a married rehab where like one of them is in the hospital, right. And they're getting like, yes Or I can't think so.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I know I can't.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, boy.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And then you suggested in the notes maybe Deep Cuts.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I was just wondering, because I have a music one and that jogged it for me just to ask you.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean, maybe Deep Cuts by Holly Brickley. But I would. I mean, if you're. If you haven't read James Salter, just go pick up Light Years. That's the. That's the place to go.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The reason I was asking about Deep Cuts is because mine is music based. It's Nick and Nora's Infinite Playlist by Rachel Kahn and David Levitan, which is interesting because you get a man and a woman writing it together in the women's parts and the men's parts as well. There's a 2006 novel that get turned into one of those adorably twee mid aughts movies like in the Wake of Juno. And I've never read the book, but I've 500 days summer. Yes. I've heard people say the book is better than that film. And that film I remember liking well enough, but it's there. These two people meet, trying to find this band playing at a secret show, and they're walking through the city and talking about music. For my money, it's a little bit too. I care about indie bands, Right. Where one of the great things about those is they care about art and culture, but that's a mechanism to talk about the real things and be vulnerable together. Yeah, that's the only one I've got. I had a book pitch for you, Rebecca, though, that made me think of this. This question and what I did this morning. I didn't know that Rosalynn Carter was the only first lady to regular sit in on cabinet meetings. Oh, and I now want a Rosalyn and Jimmy Carter lightly fictionalized novel of their time in the White House if they'll actually do this. What would that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Curtis Sittenfeld should be working on that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, right. J and R. I don't know what to call it, but I found that really fascinating idea.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Call it the Peanut Gallery.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes. Last one. This is for Rebecca because it's poetry. Poetry. I'm looking for recommendation for books I can give to myself this holiday season. I've always struggled with poetry, but I recently picked up Super Gay Poems by Stephanie Burt and found that when combined with short essays of criticism contextualization, it became really appealing. It helped me get into a habit of reading at least one poem a day. I've since picked up Bert's the Poem Is you as well as Helen Vendler's collection of Emily Dickinson. Can you recommend any other collection of poetry with accompanying short essays? Anything that came out recently, years I might have missed because I thought I wasn't a poetry person. I'm particularly interested in work by queer and bipoc writers. Thanks so much, Kate. I had nothing. I mean, I would have come up with maybe one of these, but you speak to this a little bit as you can.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't have anything that's like essays accompanied by or essays accompanying the poetry. But get the very quickly run, do not walk to the works of Ross Gay and Hanif Abdurraqib, who are both wonderful poets and essayists. Ross Gay's short little books like the Book of More Delights and There's the Book of Delights. There's the Book of More Delights.

[Jeff O'Neill]

There's More Delights.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, and then There's One About Joy are all essays that feel incredibly prophetic and poetic. His poems are wonderful and if you kind of read them together, they all do speak to each other. Hanif Abdurraqib's essays are also quite poetic. His works of poetry are beautiful, beautiful. Ada Limone and Sarah Key also, and Key is K A Y. All of them are. I think one of the things that people struggle with when they're getting into poetry is just that a lot of poetry is not on its face, accessible. And sometimes it feels like it's written specifically to gatekeep you like you have to fight through this in order to get it. And then you get to be one of the cool kids who's read this poetry. And like Ada Limone is the poet Laureate, former Poet Laureate of the United States, and her poetry is such a powerful argument for poems should be understandable and accessible. They should make you feel something as you hear them. All of these people are also wonderful readers. So if you're trying to figure out which ones to start, like this is a great use of YouTube. You can have yourself a wonderful evening watching these folks read their poems and just seeing which ones resonate for you. But those are four that I really like. And they will lead you to others. They will. They talk about others if you. You'll come across their work and you'll see who's influenced them. But Rasge, Hanif, Abdurraqib, et al. Ki.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And with that, Rebecca, we've come to the end of our document here. Thank you all for writing in and listening and trusting us even a little bit with your reading time, hours, lives, your gift giving, your family dynamics that may result from getting this book or that. As always, that's pressure.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I hadn't thought about your family.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Only now. Only now you're thinking about this. We've been doing this 12 years, Rebecca. Come on. You're from the Midwest. You know how these things go.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Had a lot of therapy, Jeff. We're trying to recover.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Blacking out is not therapy. Just so you know. Just help a lot of people.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let us know how we do, folks. Godspeed to you in this holiday season. May the books be good.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Talk to y' all later. And Doug, here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Limu. Is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for for what you [e-mail].

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Liberty.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty Savings. Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.