Book Riot - The Podcast

Episode: The 2025 Read Harder Challenge, How Publishing People Feel about Publishing, and More
Hosts: Jeff O’Neill & Rebecca Schinsky
Date: December 15, 2025

Episode Overview

In this year-end episode, Jeff and Rebecca dive into Book Riot's annual Read Harder Challenge for 2025, dissect the latest trends and findings from the Publishers Weekly publishing industry survey (focusing on diversity, job satisfaction, and artificial intelligence), and offer candid opinions on the rise of algorithmic book culture—including Gen Z book clubs and the commodification of reading. They also share poignant stories about audiobook history and current reading picks. As always, the conversation is bookish, witty, and thought-provoking, filled with insider publishing banter and smart, accessible analysis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Year-End Reflections & Upcoming Episodes

• Hosts discuss the coming year, their anticipation for high-profile book releases (Ann Patchett, Lauren Groff, George Saunders), and the return of beloved Book Riot programming.
• Upcoming special episodes: "Best of the Rest" (favorite non-book things from 2025) and "Favorite Books of the Year."
  • [01:04] “We’re through the thick of year end… we have some regular news story things to do.” — Jeff

2. The 2025 Read Harder Challenge

• Book Riot’s annual reading challenge encourages participants to expand their reading horizons—24 tasks designed to diversify and deepen reading habits.
  • Tasks include reading a microhistory, YA by a Latine author, a book from the Zero to Well Read podcast, or a romantasy with a queer or BIPOC main character.
  • The challenge is flexible; participants can combine tasks and interpret prompts creatively.
• Clarification on "Harder": Not about quantity, but about intentional, mindful, and diverse reading.
  • [06:05] “The Read Harder Challenge is about expanding your reading life… we do it by offering 24 tasks which you could shake out to be two per month.” — Rebecca
  • [07:18] “There’s a lot of misunderstanding about the ‘harder’ in Read Harder… You’re probably not going to be able to walk into a bookstore with just this and fill them all out.” — Jeff
• Emphasis on inclusivity and expansion, not on gatekeeping or mere box-checking.
  • [08:26] “The thought behind it is… this one is about enriching your reading life in some way.” — Rebecca

3. Publishers Weekly Annual Industry Survey: Diversity, Satisfaction, and AI

• Slight increases in demographic diversity and job satisfaction.
• Persistent pay disparities: women dominate the workforce numerically, but men, who are more likely to be in management, are still paid more.
  • [12:24] “There are a lot more women that work in publishing, but men get paid more... that is a dynamic that’s true in almost all American workforces.” — Jeff
• Younger/newer publishing workers (6 years or less experience) are more diverse and report high job satisfaction, though their pay remains below the New York living wage.
  • [13:36] "Their diversity is higher in that group of people. Fewer of them are white than in folks who’ve been in the industry longer..." — Rebecca
• The conversation acknowledges “steady as she goes” progress in DEI—initiatives continue, but often more quietly due to the political climate.
  • [17:56] “It’s pretty like steady as she goes right now… the initiatives are quieter because no one wanted to draw fire, especially early in this Trump administration.” — Rebecca
• AI’s growing impact and concern:
  • Marked increase in concern that AI will hurt publishing (54% last year, 72% this year).
  • New employees worry about job loss; more experienced staff fear copyright issues and dropping quality.
  • Fragmented understanding of AI’s impact—ranging from workflow tools to existential questions about art and originality.
  • [20:49] “The brainstorm-y let it write it for me…I am much, much less [optimistic].” — Jeff
  • [23:27] “The big, scary giant monster under the bed is—can an LLM produce full-length publishable manuscripts… do all the same things [as a human]?” — Jeff
  • [24:30] “It seems to me less likely that AI is coming for high art… but increasingly possible that it will come for the more genrefied, formulaic kinds of fiction…” — Rebecca

4. AI’s Real-World Effects: Hallucinated Books & Research Pitfalls

• Librarians frustrated by patrons demanding books “recommended” by AI but which do not actually exist (“hallucinated” titles).
  • [34:25] “Librarians are really tired of being accused of hiding books from you that don’t exist… because the LLMs are so good at hallucinating book titles.” — Rebecca
• Advice: Always verify AI recommendations via secondary sources (Goodreads, Amazon, Bookshop, etc.)
  • [35:14] “If you found it through an LLM, do a quick spot check… because they’re fake.” — Jeff

5. The Commodification of Reading & Book Clubs for Gen Z

• News: Hello Sunshine (Reese Witherspoon’s company) is launching “Sunny Reads,” a Gen Z-focused book club.
  • The hosts are deeply skeptical of generational marketing and the blending of reading with lifestyle consumerism.
    • [37:36] “As a headline, I did sort of recoil briefly… I’m opposed, generally speaking, to thinking in terms of generation.” — Jeff
    • [41:34] “Hello Sunshine… is launching a Gen Z book club… This is the late capitalist nightmare of this press release for me.” — Rebecca
  • Community-building around reading is often replaced by brand partnerships (Coach, luxury totes), diluting authentic literary experience.
    • [42:32] “This is not about connecting. It is about selling you something… it is capitalizing on readerly identity to sell goods.” — Rebecca
  • The hosts discuss the risk of affluence and market targeting distancing reading culture from authenticity and accessibility.

6. Book Adaptations & Literary-Cultural Synergy

• Mention of Broadway musical theaters as potential venues for book merchandising, given their target demographics—suggesting the powerful synergy of adjacent literary and entertainment experiences.
  • [44:19] “Someone sent to me—you need to think about Broadway musical theaters… almost exactly the same demographic [as readers].”

7. Reading, Algorithms, and Social Media

• Distinction between algorithm-driven discovery (BookTok, Book Club picks) and deeper, more sustaining book conversations.
  • [47:02] “If you read more books, you will want less social media has been my experience.” — Rebecca
  • Hosts encourage finding connection through books outside of algorithmic or commodified environments.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Read Harder Challenge:

  • “[The challenge] is about enriching your reading life in some way… you don’t have to read any more books than you read last year for this challenge to be a success.” — Rebecca [08:26]
  • “Not unlike Zero to Well Read… it is the idea of getting out of a certain comfortable, unexamined, [space].” — Jeff [07:18]

• On AI Anxiety:

  • “The big scary giant monster under the bed is—can an LLM client produce full-length publishable manuscripts… And that's the question or can it ever.” — Jeff [23:27]
  • “I think one of the possibilities is that… AI is coming for art… seems to me less likely that AI is coming for high art… but increasingly possible that it will come for… formulaic kinds of fiction.” — Rebecca [24:30]

• On Generation-Based Book Marketing:

  • “I’m opposed, generally speaking, to thinking in terms of generation… it’s a gross level of sorting that I find myself really resistant to...” — Jeff [37:59]
  • “This is the late capitalist nightmare of this press release for me… This is not about connecting. It is about selling you something.” — Rebecca [41:34]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:13] — What is the Read Harder Challenge and how does it work?
• [11:45] — Publishers Weekly industry survey: diversity, pay, job satisfaction.
• [19:01] — Rising AI concerns: job loss, copyright, and quality.
• [34:25] — Librarians struggle with ‘hallucinated’ AI book titles.
• [37:36] — Discussion of Hello Sunshine’s “Gen Z Book Club” and the commodification of reading.
• [44:19] — Synergy between books and entertainment spaces (book adaptations/theaters).
• [47:02] — Social media and reading: which influences the other?

Frontlist Foyer & Annotated Corner: Staff Picks and Literary Anecdotes

Rebecca’s Recent Reads

• Feast on Your Life by Tamar Adler: A collection of short, daily food essays focused on finding delight amidst depression and struggle—“a nice time of year for, like, let’s just sort of sink in and swim around in someone’s nice feelings about food and family…” [48:50]
• H is for Hawk by Helen MacDonald: A celebrated memoir about grief and training a goshawk—poignant, beautifully written, and recommended ahead of an upcoming adaptation.

Jeff’s Literary Story

• Mini-annotated: The Untold Story of Audiobooks
  • The invention of modern audiobooks: Barbara Holdridge and Marianne Mantell founded Caedmon Records in 1952, beginning with an iconic Dylan Thomas recording (“A Child’s Christmas in Wales”).
  • Their story is one of innovation, happenstance, and the enduring power of recorded literature.
  • “22 years old in 1952… they thought the old people were dumb and they wanted to disrupt the media industry.” — Jeff [52:54]
  • “Audiobook trailblazers, Christmas, nostalgia, the history of media…” — Jeff [57:50]

Conclusion

This episode of Book Riot Podcast is a comprehensive, lively year-end check-in on the reading world—brimming with smart commentary on the meaning of “read harder,” the evolving (and quietly contentious) state of publishing, existential questions about AI and the future of authorship, wariness about the commercial co-opting of book culture, and loving celebrations of new and classic books. Candid, insightful, and often wryly humorous, Jeff and Rebecca continue to speak directly to passionate, mindful readers looking for more than trends or branding—readers who want to think, connect, and, above all, read with intention.