The Books of the Year So Far

Summary

Book Riot - The Podcast: "The Books of the Year So Far" Release Date: June 25, 2025

Hosts: Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Schinsky
Description: A deep dive into the standout books released in the first half of 2025, exploring their impact, reception, and potential to be crowned as the year's best.

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Introduction

In this episode of Book Riot - The Podcast, hosts Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Schinsky embark on an exploration of the most influential and talked-about books released so far in 2025. Steering clear of their personal favorites, they focus on titles that have garnered significant attention, sales, and critical discourse within the literary community.

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Featured Books and Discussions

1. Hunger Games Prequel: Sunrise at the Reaping

Timestamp: [8:42]

Rebecca introduces Sunrise at the Reaping, a prequel to the beloved Hunger Games series by Suzanne Collins. The book has not only reignited interest in the franchise but has also achieved impressive sales figures, with "1.5 million copies worldwide in its first week, 1.2 million of which were in the U.S." This resurgence is attributed to Collins' enduring fan base and the book’s strategic positioning within mainstream pop culture.

Rebecca Schinsky ([12:33]): "The Hunger Games fandom is enduring. We're now on, I think, like the third generation of readers that are feeling a connection to it."

Despite its success, Jeff and Rebecca ponder whether Sunrise at the Reaping can truly claim the title of "Book of the Year," especially considering its "ineligible" status for certain awards due to its late December release.

2. Onyx Storm

Timestamp: [13:35]

Onyx Storm by an unnamed author made a significant impact upon its January release, selling "2.7 million copies in the first week," positioning it as "the fastest adult selling novel in 20 years." However, its momentum has waned due to mixed reviews and its placement in the middle of a five-book series, a point Rebecca refers to as the "series slump."

Jeff O'Neill ([13:35]): "It's a tough place to be. It's a tough place to get excited about and long."

3. Jake Tapper's Original Sin

Timestamp: [18:06]

Jake Tapper's Original Sin stands out as a significant non-fiction release, delving into political discourse and social justice themes. While it has "generated a ton of buzz" and sits at "number seven on the PW hardcover nonfiction list," both hosts express skepticism about its longevity on bestseller lists, attributing its popularity more to media promotion than sustained reader interest.

Rebecca Schinsky ([19:16]): "Everyone has a take on whether the book should have been written, how the book was written, what the book contains, and then how Tapper has been promoting it..."

4. *House of My Mother by Shari Franke

Timestamp: [19:53]

House of My Mother has carved a niche in the "religious cults" category, inspired by its Hulu docu-series adaptation. The book explores the harrowing experiences of a woman within a cult, resonating with readers seeking memoirs of survival and resilience. Although Jeff admits limited personal engagement with the book, its strong sales and positive ratings underscore its impact.

5. Ezra Klein's Abundance

Timestamp: [21:07]

Ezra Klein's Abundance tackles complex political concepts, earning its spot on the bestseller list through "a ton of conversation" and extensive media coverage. Despite being a "pretty wonky politics book," its placement at "number seven on the PW hardcover nonfiction list" highlights its ability to engage readers interested in societal structures and governance.

Rebecca Schinsky ([22:18]): "Nobody seems to be able to agree, but there's a ton of that. It's just generated a ton of buzz and that seems to be enduring."

6. Charlotte McConaughey’s Wild Dark Shore

Timestamp: [23:08]

Wild Dark Shore emerges as a dark horse candidate for Book of the Year, lauded for its "literary fiction with a mystery element." Recognized by Amazon as their "Best Book of the Year," it combines engaging plot twists with profound character connections, making it both a critical and commercial success.

Rebecca Schinsky ([24:16]): "It's so timely for where we are right now. You know, the government is constructing a massive database about citizens. That's just non fictional information. Right. It's incredibly prescient."

Despite its success, the hosts discuss the challenges of marketing literary fiction to a broad audience, pondering whether a more commercial presentation could amplify its reach.

7. Other Notable Mentions

• Katie Kitamura’s Upcoming Novel: Anticipated to break into the "book club world" with themes of love and loss interwoven with thriller elements.
• Broken Country by Claire Leslie Hall: Gaining traction in book clubs for its family-oriented narrative and suspenseful twists.
• Ocean Vuong’s Continued Rise: Transitioning from poet to acclaimed novelist, Vuong's work garners increasing attention and accolades.

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Themes and Trends

Impact of Social Media Platforms

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the influence of platforms like TikTok and Instagram on a book's popularity. Jeff shares an anecdote about contrasting engagement on Instagram versus TikTok, highlighting how certain books, such as Charlotte McConaughey’s Wild Dark Shore, receive disproportionate attention based on the platform.

Jeff O'Neill ([27:30]): "Just saying no to stuff. Or the year of yes. I guess that's the opposite."

Author Platform and Marketing Strategies

The hosts delve into how an author's existing platform—like that of Jake Tapper or Ocean Vuong—can drive a book's success, sometimes irrespective of the book's intrinsic qualities. They debate whether marketing strategies, such as making a book appear more commercial versus literary, significantly impact sales and reader engagement.

Jeff O'Neill ([31:06]): "What was the first novel? Novel now but on earth we're briefly gorgeous. That was just long."

Literary vs. Commercial Fiction

A recurring theme is the balance between literary craftsmanship and commercial appeal. Wild Dark Shore is cited as an example of a book that successfully bridges these realms, offering both depth and accessibility. Conversely, the discussion touches on challenges faced by purely literary works in achieving mainstream success without overt hooks or plot-driven narratives.

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Personal Insights and Reflections

Jeff and Rebecca share their personal experiences and preferences, providing candid reflections on the books discussed. Jeff expresses admiration for Wild Dark Shore but critiques the overtness in some literary works, while Rebecca appreciates the balance Charlotte McConaughey strikes between subtlety and accessibility. Their discussions reveal a nuanced understanding of reader preferences and market dynamics.

Rebecca Schinsky ([35:18]): "I'm here to yuck that. Yum."

---

Audience Engagement and Buzz

The hosts acknowledge the role of audience feedback and social media buzz in shaping the conversation around each book. They discuss how fan-driven platforms can amplify a book's reach, sometimes overshadowing critical reception. The anecdote about Instagram comments significantly favoring Wild Dark Shore over its TikTok counterpart underscores the varying impacts of different social media mediums.

Jeff O'Neill ([27:55]): "It's selling like hotcakes. And I think actually some of the things that made it that are making it work for such a broad audience are things that, like, I'm personally not super into right now."

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Final Thoughts and Conclusions

As the episode wraps up, Jeff and Rebecca reflect on the evolving landscape of the publishing industry, emphasizing the importance of both literary merit and strategic marketing in a book's success. They anticipate that Wild Dark Shore and Sunrise at the Reaping will continue to dominate conversations as the year progresses, while remaining open to surprises as new titles emerge.

Jeff O'Neill ([38:18]): "She is writing more about something at least overtly than King is."

They conclude by expressing excitement for upcoming releases and the potential for standout books to leave a lasting impression on readers and the industry alike.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Rebecca Schinsky ([12:33]): "The Hunger Games fandom is enduring. We're now on, I think, like the third generation of readers that are feeling a connection to it."

• Jeff O'Neill ([13:35]): "It's a tough place to be. It's a tough place to get excited about and long."

• Rebecca Schinsky ([19:16]): "Everyone has a take on whether the book should have been written, how the book was written, what the book contains, and then how Tapper has been promoting it..."

• Rebecca Schinsky ([22:18]): "Nobody seems to be able to agree, but there's a ton of that. It's just generated a ton of buzz and that seems to be enduring."

• Rebecca Schinsky ([24:16]): "It's so timely for where we are right now. You know, the government is constructing a massive database about citizens. That's just non fictional information. Right. It's incredibly prescient."

• Rebecca Schinsky ([35:18]): "I'm here to yuck that. Yum."

---

Conclusion

Jeff and Rebecca provide a comprehensive overview of the literary landscape in 2025's first half, blending critical analysis with personal insights. Their discussions illuminate the complexities of book popularity, the interplay between author platforms and marketing, and the enduring appeal of both literary and commercial fiction. As listeners, the episode offers valuable takeaways on navigating and appreciating the diverse world of contemporary literature.

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Listen to the full episode here.

Transcript

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[Jeff O'Neill]

This is the Book Riot podcast. I'm Jeff O' Neill.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And I'm Rebecca Schinsky.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

And I'm coming to you from Boston, Massachusetts.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, I'm on vacation right now as you're.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We're coming to you from the past, baby.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

We maybe wait a couple weeks to do this to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But we're dodging vacations. Everything.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

We're doing the books of the year so far. This is not the best books of the year.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's not our favorite books of the year.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Not our favorite books of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sort of the it books, are they not. Not really. Because we're not getting. This is a. I did.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I took this as a vibes only.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I licked my finger, put it out.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

In the wind, kind of felt which.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Way the wind blowing. I did an initial list of like 11 or 12, pared it down to 10, and then I did a look at a couple of just to make.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Sure I wasn't missing anything.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But part of my process. Rebecca, tell me about yours. Was if I didn't kind of have to think, if I had to think too hard about it.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Doesn't pass.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Didn't pass.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Agreed. Yeah, I don't think there's anything on my list that wasn't already there before I went to do the check because I did kind of the same process. What's coming off the dome and really the stuff that's coming off the dome as the things that have been big in the book space this year are the ones that we're looking for here. That's what this vibe check is about. But I came up with a couple things that I have my eye on from the list that I checked at the end. I also have not ranked them. There's a couple themes that came up. So I might clump mine. But we'll check in the vibes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, there's one that I had to.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Go check the title of. I was like the book about whatever.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But that was the only one where I couldn't remember the name of the title. But I also thought that was maybe a rather than a demerit.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I think maybe it was a credit.

[Jeff O'Neill]

For it that even though I couldn't remember the title, like the essay, you.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Knew the book about the thing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I knew the book about the thing. It's kind of interesting. Let's see things that are coming attractions. We're going to be live July 9 House Bookstore, Portland, Oregon, 7pm $10 tickets. That also gets you 10% off your purchases that day or up to $100. I can't remember. The thing will be in there. Link in the show notes that will be some of our best books of the year. We're gonna be joined by Vanessa Diaz and Keith Mossman, the book buyer extraordinaire. They say I would like to be.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

The extraordinaire of something.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't have a good like noun for that extraordinaire to modify at this point, but I'm gonna work on it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think we could come up with something related to puns. You're a punter extraordinaire.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Okay. So go check that out. Really looking forward there coming.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And by the time you're listening to this, our previous live episode at Powell's, which had had just been available to Patreon members, but that will have aired last week as you're hearing this in this main feed so you can get a taste of what you're but you know you're listening to this podcast. You know what it's like to come hang out with us. It's going to be a good time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Over on First Edition, you can hear me talk to Kate McKean, the literary agent, about her new book right through it, the Insider and Insiders, the Insider's Guide to Publishing the Creative Life.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

She's a literary agent. She runs a very popular Agents of.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Books newsletter which is about publishing. And it's about what the publishing process looked like from an agent's point of view who's also tried to be an author.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

She shelved a couple of books that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

She tried to write. Hawaii Novel, I think was one of them.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Interesting.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Part motivational, part practical.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But if you've got a grad who wants to be a writer, that paired with Jane Friedman, Jane Friedman's Business of.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Being a Writer would be a very good pairing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I just recommended both of those as a one, two punch to a friend whose brother has finished a novel and is looking for a home for it. Those are great resources. Also, folks, we're opening up the mailbag for the summer. Ask Us anything. So if you've got stuff about books, work, life, just don't make it weird. You can email [e-mail], put mailbag in the subject line so we know to pull that out.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

And if you want to check out, you can go to the book Riot Instagram. You can see our faces there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I've done a couple. You can see what is enraging Michelle.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

About how I'm doing these.

[Jeff O'Neill]

There's two things that's enraging her about it and if you can guess what they are shooting an email podcast.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

One of them was enough that I came out of vacation to text you.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's true. Yeah, that's right.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It's still here too.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm not sure how long this is going to be around, but we're, you know, we, we evolve, we grow.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You're on a journey.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's okay. So let's do a sponsor break when we get into the books of the year so far.

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[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, Rebecca, where do you want to start? You want to kick off? Lead us.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I need to have the Court of Rightness adjudicate something because one of the court is here.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The court's very excited to be called into session.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let's. Let's meet. One of the biggest books of the year came out on December 24th.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I looked at this too. Doesn't count.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But it's a 2025 book story. Mel Robbins, Let Them Theory. It sold 4 million copies and most of those did not happen in 2024.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, I'll let the reader decide if the listener decide if you want to think about the so I guess this is. This is the way to put it. It's not going to show up on any Goodreads. Best Selling Books of the Year Best.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Books of the Year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Best of the Year. It's ineligible.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

They did that to themselves and they get to swim in their pot of gold for it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They did, but they did do it themselves. So. But you know what also sells a bunch of but there's all kinds of books that's selling More than the books.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

We'Re going to talk about that weren't released this year.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But it's like she's. She's on a media tour that seems never ending. I think it's got the potential to do kind of what Atomic Habits did in terms of how long it sits on the bestseller list. Mel Robbins has a really big platform and prominent profile. So that was going to be like number one with an asterisk for me.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I would also demerit it for this reason.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh good. Multiple demerit.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Which is. Is it.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It's just the life changing magic of.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Not giving an F. Just dressed up.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It's the same idea.

[Jeff O'Neill]

There's also been a little conversation about.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Maybe it was someone else's idea first.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Who knows?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I missed that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I got into this a little bit. So I'm. It's selling a bunch of copies.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But like this is. We have one of these every couple of years. Which is also basically just. Yeah, here's your permission to not do stuff you don't want to do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right. That's why everyone was enraged by condos. Like actually you should tidy up. Where is the life changing magic of giving an F? Maybe we're going to go all the way around the Pendulum. Like literally just do what people say you should do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And what people say say you should do is just have boundary.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Wasn't that the part of crowdsourcing?

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's like you can't guess how many jelly beans are in that.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

So let the crowd. Maybe the crowd knows what you should.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Be doing better than you do. Who are you to say what you. That you know what you should be doing?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We just need to do some Moneyball analysis of like how many years go between each of these bestsellers and then we can enter the market with our own life changing magic of just saying no to stuff.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Just saying no to stuff. Or the year of yes. I guess that's the opposite. The year of yes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Don't do it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The fortnight of no. Anyway.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Two weeks of saying no is not saying and no.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So there we go. Yeah. I think it is a current story. It's. It's selling a bunch of copies. I think it's just we have to have rules here.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We do. And I mean like we're even cheating according to our. Or I would even be cheating according to our own demands that all awards be given based on the calendar year of publication.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Right. So the court of rightness says, heal thyself. Adjudicate thyself and heal.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You know, it's Just it's been a couple weeks since we were here together. I just wanted to tee you up to like be right from the very start.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That was an easy one. Okay, then I'll. Well, I think the easiest. Well, I thought about ranking these and I thought it was going to be easy because clearly Onyx Storm is on my list.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Yes, me too.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But if I was going to rank them, I thought initially it was be.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

A clear number one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But I think it might not be.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I agree.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I think I might have something else and the something else I want to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Talk about, I just. Well, this interview that'll be showing off this feed. I don't want to spoil it because I think it's pretty cool. I think Sunrise at the Reaping might be the book of the year because the teens are talking about it again. It's rocketing up that whole series up the chart. And here's the other thing. It's good and I'm not looking at.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It from sort of a Harold Bloom point, but I've had an occasion to go look at Goodreads. It has the highest average star rating.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Of any of the Hunger Games books. It's like four.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It got the Ames stamp of approval in your house, which does not come easily.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And like it's. Apparently it's genuine. I have read this, so I don't say. But apparently people it's. It's actually good. It's like. And it's an important.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It might be the most successful prequel.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Book of all time that I can.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Think of right now.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And that's always in those parentheses when you see those that I can think of right now is always. But like that.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

That is good. Is such a relief and a joy for people that are fans of this.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Series, but also for the nature of.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Like IP storytelling writ large.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Anyway, enduring. The Hunger Games fandom is enduring. We're now on, I think, like the third generation of readers that are feeling a connection to it. And, you know, 1.5 million copies worldwide in its first week. 1.2 million were in the U.S. like, I think this is a quiet big story of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, that's what I'm kind of surprised to even say. I think it might be the book of the year so far. Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Because it's not new, so it's not splashy. We see these from Suzanne Collins. Like, it's not even the first Hunger Games prequel, which would have been and was a bigger story at the time. But yeah, as I was making my list, Onyx Storm was the first thing off the Dome, like that was the first big book of the year. It came out in January, like huge sales, 2.7 million copies in the first week. It was the fastest adult selling novel in 20 years. But like it came out of the gate and then the conversation about it seems to have quieted down pretty quickly. And you know, I think there were very mixed reviews even from fans of the series. It's the third book in a five book series right smack in the middle.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Series slump.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, that's a tough place to be. It's a tough place to get excited about and long. That's a long book to read also. And I think it raises, I believe that more of the people that are buying Sunrise on the Reaping are actually reading the whole thing. Like Onyx Storm. I have wondered some of the TikTok phenomena. How many people are really doing the whole reading experience versus buying it and getting into the content and then maybe not totally finishing. So I don't know what reader's connection is going to be to that. But sitting here like almost six months after Onyx Storm came out, I don't think that it's a story of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, I mean, I think. Well, it depends on how many we have. But in terms of being number one, obviously with a bullet, I don't.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I also think the prevalence of other.

[Jeff O'Neill]

TikTok famous Romantasy stories kind of take.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Some of the shine off it too.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, really there's nothing in Sunrise and the Reaping score. There's really nothing to, to even talk about because it is singular in that particular way. If in 25 years Rebecca Yarrows publishes a prequel to whatever and people buy it for 2 million and they're into it, they get to be. Then she can have the book of the year or the book of the.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Year so far, man, I will be so surprised if that's. If Rebecca Yaros's fandom is that enduring.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You know, would you have been. That's a great thought.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

How surprised if we got into DeLorean.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And fired up Mr. Fusion and put.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Some Coors Light in a banana peel.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And we went back to, let's say four years after Mockingjay, right When we're in a lull and said, you know what, in 15 years there's going to be another. It's going to be a Hunger Games prequel. I'm not going to tell you what it's about, but it's going to build. It's going to sell 2 million copies in the first 14 days or whatever. And it's going to be higher rated than any of these. We would be shocked.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We would be shocked. We would be shocked. But I don't think I'd be surprised that the connection those readers have to the books endured because even by the time Mockingjay came out, I had seen high school teachers putting the Hunger Games on school syllabi.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And. And it had entered like mainstream pop culture. There were memes that like, you didn't have to know the Hunger Games to have gotten it. People saw the movies who had never read the books before. There was just like a much more. Not quite a monoculture connection, but like much more awareness where the romantasy stuff does still seem relatively siloed to TikTok. And like, not for nothing, it's spicy. You can't hand it to your young kids and like build a bedtime ritual around it or like list it on a family road trip in that multi generational.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean, you could. But child service, you could get a.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Phone call if those are some choices.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, maybe not child services, but you know, a friend the court of rightness would definitely interview. Send you a. A summons.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, the court of rightness would send you a summons.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, so you said you had just in group. So were those grouped together?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Those were grouped together, like sort of big, you know, genre e bestsellers. And then I had newsworthy. Okay. Careless, careless people. Oh, sorry.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Huge publicity blitz. I think maybe the publicity for it has now like outpaced book sales for her. But this is maybe the biggest Streisand effect that I've seen in publishing in our careers.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They're going to teach it like publicity classes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like, don't do this.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

We really should name it the Zuckerberg effect.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Barbra Streisand's like, I'm just over here writing nine hand. I've told you everything. I can no longer be the Streisand effect. There's nothing else to know. Everyone knows the Streisand effect.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's true. But Mark Zuckerberg sues you for writing a book about working for him so that you can't promote it yourself. But everyone else is real happy to promote it for you.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Also Zuckerberg's kind of done this twice.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Because renaming Facebook meta and then spending.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Billions and billions of dollars on the metaverse and it going over like a lead balloon is. It's a special.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Again.

[Jeff O'Neill]

He's doing fine. And I would take the.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, his graveyard of bad ideas is bigger than two.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But. But if you're running a multi billion dollar company, you have bad ideas. I get it. It's just there's a lot of wood behind these arrows and yeah, sometimes when.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

They miss, it really hurts.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Careless people on yours.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, it was, it was, it was a quick. It was a quick one too. Let's see, I'll go next. I guess the next easiest one for me was Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins. It's got on some best books of the year so far. It's selling quite well. She. She got on the COVID of Time. I don't know if you saw that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So if you're on the COVID of Time and Time is not what it once was. I mean, don't tell me about it, I'm 47 years old. But even the, the institution of Time, still, it was a big. That was serious business. And the book people seem to like.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

If not love, it's not getting like.

[Jeff O'Neill]

A lot of hate. It doesn't seem like a failure. But I think in looking at 10, it's sort of snuck on there, but 10?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it was 11 on my list. But since the court of rightness has knocked off the let them theory, now it's in my 10. I read it on the way to my PTO last week. Yeah, I had a long layover. I read it in one sitting. I liked it, but didn't love it, which is kind of the zone. I think we talked about this on Slack. This is the zone I'm in and that you're in as well, I think, for tjr. But it went down easy. It was enjoyable. I think I liked it more than Malibu Rising, but I didn't like it as much as Daisy Jones and the Six, which was just an amazing audiobook experience.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Where do you want to go next?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let's see more in like newsworthy sort of public interest. This might be recency bias, but I think Jake Tapper's Original Sin is one of the book stories of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I did look at this, but it took me a minute to think of it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I also think the media attention to it is outweighing sales. But like everyone has a take on whether the book should have been written, how the book was written, what the book contains, and then how Tapper has been promoting it, like on every podcast that you can think of, every political talk show. I don't know that it's that effective in selling books for him, but this is a big story.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I had one other sort of newsy outside of the world of books really, but became a Book story. And this is the one. I was trying to remember the title.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Of a January 7 publication date.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I always thought it was last year. Have you heard of the House of My Mother by Shari Shari Franke F R A N K E? It's the number one bestseller in religious.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Cults, which is why I thought maybe.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You would have had this on your radar. But apparently it's the subject the eight Passengers family vlog, which is now a Hulu docu series about this woman writing about the cult she was in YouTube channel. And it's an Internet story, but it's selling quite well and the ratings are good.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It's made a couple best books of.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The year so far lists. And we do get, you know, it's not quite as sort of literary memoir as Educated by Tara Westover, but there is an appetite for the oh my God, look what I survived. And people like, oh, my God, look what you survived. And it works. I have no personal relationship with it. I don't know if it's good or not from a Jeff point of view. I probably won't check this out, but it is a huge deal and it's. I was looking at the bestselling. I don't remember. I saw the list most popular bestselling books of the year so far before I got into this. And this is one of the ones I was surprised is like, what is that?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I haven't heard of this one. Gonna have to check it out. Let's see, my final one. In the newsworthy corner is the Ezra Klein's abundance. Like it has just been sitting on the bestseller lists and also lots of conversation. So it's doing both. Like he's doing the media tour. Lots of talk about it. The Democratic Party has no idea what to do with these concepts. Nobody seems to be able to agree, but there's a ton of that. It's just generated a ton of buzz and that seems to be enduring. Like, I am surprised that this, when I looked this morning was like number seven on the PW hardcover nonfiction list.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's kind of a big deal for a pretty wonky politics book.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think the. The platform that they both have is hard to deny.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

And that we know their platform maybe makes us discounted even more.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like, oh, yeah, it's really big.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think that's probably right. But was surprised to see that. I think from what I've gathered, like, maybe they are a little bit surprised at how well it's doing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, well, I mean, I like books to sell and I think that one's interesting. I. I'm.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I guess it's interesting. I didn't put that or the Tapper.

[Jeff O'Neill]

On my list, and I didn't even.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Consider it that hard. And I think this is about me.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Which is normally how these things go. It's like I'm so uninterested in take.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Of the day ness right now.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And those are fodder for that. And it's not necessarily. Well, I think Tapper is cultivated. I don't think Klein and Thompson, they certainly are take merchants online, but not.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Of the worst kind.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I'm just not. I'm just not interested in the tweet of the moment or the take of the moment or I'm going to selectively pull out or what.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I'm looking for something else.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And it's not that. So that might be about me, but I'm just not. That's not where the vibes are with me right now.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I feel you.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I understand, but it doesn't mean the court of rightness agrees.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Can't argue with that Bestseller list.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Where the vibes are with me, though.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Is literary commercial fiction that is really good and selling very well. And Charlotte McConaughey is now one of my authors because I've read all three of her books and liked them all.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

And Wild Dark Shore.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We'Ve got to be careful because we have a wild dark horse for book of the year with this because Amazon named it their.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Best book of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You and I have both read it and really liked it.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It's selling tremendously well for a book of this kind.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Meaning it's not a genre, it's just.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It's really literary fiction, maybe with a little genre thrown in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Don't you think, like, it trends.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

If you had to pick one, it's literary fiction.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think it's literary fiction has, like a kind of a mystery element.

[Jeff O'Neill]

She does that.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

She brings in a mystery, but who doesn't anymore?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. And there's then some, like, suspensy stuff that happens near the end. I just finished it a couple nights ago. It's. Yeah, this is selling like hotcakes. And I think actually some of the things that made it that are making it work for such a broad audience are things that, like, I'm personally not super into right now. Like, I would just like my literary fiction without a bunch of, like, plot twists and suspense. But I get why this works for people because there's more of a hook and it is beautifully written. Like, she's making some points, but she does not overstate her point.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Thank you, thank you Australia, for giving.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Us Charlotte McConnegie to do this. Maybe you have your own just putting it on Front street, but and Charlotte.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Wood, because we got Stonyard Devotional this year, the Australians are killing it for subtlety, which is a new sentence that has never been uttered.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Maybe they're all.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They're always downplaying it, you know, maybe.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But you know, we were Vanessa and Danica and I were talking on the episode a couple of weeks ago about Bury our bones in the midnight soil and how one of the things that we all kind of knocked up against in it, while we really liked the book, was that she makes the point over and over that she's making. And like you and I bumped on this in the Antidote by Karen Russell. I'm I think we're running into it more where authors are not quite trusting readers to pick up the subtleties and are really making things overt. And I appreciated that Charlotte McConaughey did not go there. This is a it's a good book. It's very compelling. The pages turn.

[Slow Burn Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Flatiron Books, publishers of Total Dreamboat By Kaitlyn Doyle Hope Lanover needs a vacation. Her relationship has imploded, her job is stressful, and she's stuck in a creative slump. So when her best friend invites her on a luxury cruise, which I wish my friends would do, she goes along with it. Despite not really being a cruise person, Hope is prepared to grin and bear it until she locks eyes at check in with Felix Seagrave. Suddenly, 10 days on a cruise doesn't seem so bad if it means a fling with a sexy stranger. But when a huge fight leaves them stranded in paradise, they must work together and share a bed to make their way home. Can they navigate the stormy seas of love, or will they face romantic shipwreck? This is from the author of Just Some Stupid Love Story, Kaitlin Doyle, where we get so many of our favorite tropes like forced proximity, fast burn, and of course, one bed. It's full of great banter, quirky supporting characters, and a really picturesque tropical setting. Perfect for your next vacation or staycation. Thank you once again to Flatiron Books and Total Dreamboat by Katelyn Doyle for sponsoring today's show.

[Christopher Fitton]

Hi everyone, I'm Christopher Fitton. You may know me from the Sleep Cave Podcast, the largest sleep podcast in the world that helps people sleep through meditation and hypnosis. So many people have asked me for daytime meditations, so I've created the show let's Begin to help you relax, recharge and reconnect during the day. Let's Begin is the home of daytime relaxation and mindfulness and features an array of meditations, hypnosis and affirmations which will help you kickstart your day or give you that moment of peace and relaxation when you are feeling overwhelmed or stressed. So please go and search for let's Begin on Spotify, Apple or YouTube or your podcast app of choice and tap to subscribe to make let's Begin your home of daytime relaxation and mindfulness.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I've got a weird anecdote thing for you and I don't know what to make of it and I don't want to make too much of it, but I can't also not let it go. Welcome to the Jeff o' Neill Story. So I did welcome to podcasts. I did a short form video on Amazon's Best Books of the year with Wild Dark Shore as the lead and on Instagram, 95% of the comments were oh my God, I love that book. With like maybe more than 95%. Oh my God, I'm so glad that.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I love that book.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I love that on TikTok didn't have nearly. I mean it got some traction, but not as four or five times as much as Instagram. So like 100ish comments versus 30ish comments or something. Something like that. The TikTok comments too boring, slow, drawn out. And I'm like, that's not true. But it is.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Doesn't not help my story about what people on that platform versus even just this other short form platform are doing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it fits the narrative that we're sort of constructing about TikTok and reading. And it's funny that they would say it's too drawn out because it's like a third the length of fourth Wing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But on a sentence by sentence level.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

There are pleasures of the sentence that McConaughey cares more about.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I'm not saying Schwab's a bad.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Writer, it's just that the sentence level is not the unit of import in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

A way that is with God.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And there are like, right. There's really wonderful sentences in the McConaughey. There are meditative moments. There is this mystery element. But the book is not about the mystery elements. You know, the book is about the connections between these characters. And I really think TikTok is just not here for character driven. Right.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It's plotter bust.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean in.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

In right. It's Plotter bust.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That seems to be the fine ilk.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But yeah, I. I'm really interested for Wild Dark Shore. I think you're right that we might have a dark horse for best book of the year. Like there's not that I've seen yet like a huge literary release for the fall.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So how fall goes the Lockwood I'm hearing things about.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, but.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But that's one. And it can go in a lot of different ways.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And she's weird. So, like, will it is that. Can we cross the weird meridian to get Patricia Lockwood into like more mainstream readership? You're making faces.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, I don't know. I think.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I think your point about Lockwood being strange is a pro and a con.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think the same kind of people that buy Wild Dark Shore and Droz, though it is literary and it is about things. It is not. There's not a lot of reading friction. Right. It's not like there's a reason it's going to sell a lot of copies because it.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

You feel like you're getting something nourishing, which you are.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But it's also not just like raw turnips. And I'm not saying Lockwood is, but it's very easy to read.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think Wild Dark Shore is like. It's substantial. There are some difficult pieces of content. Like it's not a Swiss army recommendation. You can't just give it to anybody.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, closer than Lockwood is kind of.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

What you're saying, I think.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And you can give it to most readers, but Patricia Lockwood you can give to fewer readers.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But I think the people that like the Lockwood are the kinds of people that are more taste making you writ large.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. So. But it'll be interesting. Like, while Dark Shore will probably outsell Patricia Lockwood, where will we land on what is the best book of the year? Like, Lockwood would be my front runner.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

There.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I had on my list and I.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I don't want to sleep on the Dream Hotel.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I did have that on my list because I think again, don't get caught prisoner of the moment sales. We can have a slower burn things. I see it out.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I see people talking about it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's still out on bookshelf tables. I think a lot. There's a lot of affection within the.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Literary community for her.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I think this book is especially good. I do have a shinsky question about the marketing, which if you made it seem more commercial rather than literary, just the COVID looks like it looks like Europa editions or if it had More.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Of a commercial fiction vibe. Would it be selling more?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think it might.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think it might too because it does. It's very compelling. It really moves. It's so timely for where we are right now. You know, the government is constructing a massive database about citizens. That's just non fictional information. Right. It's incredibly prescient. I do think the marketing made it a little Nichier. But then it got picked for Read with Jenna.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So like that's broad exposure for her and she's been nominated for you know, big literary book awards in the past. Didn't make my top 10 but that was on my one to watch.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I did one book club book, Wild Dark Shore. I don't think I picked for any of the book clubs. I was looking around at what the books I picked for book club but.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

The one that seems to have broken.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Out is Broken country by Claire Leslie Hall.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That was also on my ones to Watch.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's sold a bunch.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Like a bunch a bunch.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Just kind of low key sitting on these bestseller lists.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I mean it's only out March 4th.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

So it's made a quite.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think this is. Has a little bit of the Catherine Newman and Napolitano that kind of long. It's going to get in the book club world and circulate. It has more of the family, more of a familiar family kind of thing.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Going on than even Wild Darkshore does.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I haven't read the whole thing. I read the first few pages to.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Get a sense of it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What's it about? I don't know anything about it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I know you're going to be shocked. It's an unforgettable story of love, loss and the choices that shape our lives. Reading that verbatim. It also has the thriller twists.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Great. Everything has thriller twists now and at some point I'm gonna get mad about it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. A Deadly secrets from the family past again. That's why I didn't.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I was like.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I kind of. I kind of feel like I know what this book is.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Someone dead and we have to know who killed him.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But maybe someone that we.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It has been just sitting on bestseller list.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So that's why I put it here. That's why I put it here.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It will be interesting to see. Like I haven't. Has it come up on any of the like the best of's so far for the mid year check ins?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Don't remember.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think it might. Maybe it's in the Kristin Hannah zone where people like it sells a lot.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think I think Kristin Hannah is more interesting than this to me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I didn't. I don't think I had anything. Book clubby. One for us audition. Katie Kitamura. We're gonna make this book one of the books of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm so glad you put it on here. I couldn't do it to everyone. I mean, it's one of mine. It to be. I haven't looked at sales data, rating data. I don't care. I. I literally don't care.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean, I don't either.

[Jeff O'Neill]

For my own. I don't either.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

In the first half of this year. That's the book. I'm writing for it. You're writing for it. Saddle up, friends. Katie Kamura.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't think Tik Tok's gonna, like.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't think so either. It's hard to pitch. You just have to be like, it's weird and you won't know what's happening. But trust me, it's great. And it's too ambiguous for Tick Tock.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It should just be called New by Katie Kitamura.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Can we reverse psychology Tick tock into this? Like, I bet you won't understand this book.

[Slow Burn Advertiser]

Oh.

[Jeff O'Neill]

What we need to do is annotate.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It with an individual's life, and that'll.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Get him onto it. Just like every. We just underlined every line within a really arcane system of documenting who said what and what happened. I don't get. Really?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

A piece of my soul died when I discovered that was a thing that they're doing on TikTok. Like, just highlighting everything, but in different colors. Or like everything that the hero says is highlighted in blue and everything the heroine says is highlighted in pink. And then you're highlighting other things. Like, are you ever going back to these? Do the kids understand what annotations are for?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Look, have fun out there. That's fine. But it's. I think it's a little bit like building ships in bottles. You do it because you did it right. You don't go sail those little bottle ships.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Then what are we doing?

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Well, you're making a thing and you're having experience.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Rebecca, come on. I don't know. This is not how I would spend my time.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm here to yuck that. Yum.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Just highlighting a bunch of things.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I was gonna say that. It's really funny that you would do that. What about what I haven't talked about? Oh, did you include barrier bones?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I did.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Okay. I did.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. It's hard to know because it just came out like the latest release of all of the ones that we're talking about today. But I mean, a half million copy print run where the author is signing all 500,000.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

People are stoked.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Again. I'm now getting data from a video I made, but people were stoked about.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, people are stoked. She's popping up everywhere. Schwab has a dedicated audience and she's doing something a little bit new here. It's a fun read. The pages do turn.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I Wish it was 100 pages shorter.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I agree.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

And that lanterns didn't also have neon.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Signs pointing to the lanterns that she hangs. But.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You know, it felt. Let me ask you, because you had a conflict when we were recording the book club episodes. You didn't get to make it. Did you also feel that it was, like, a little too overt and maybe like, ya, we talked about what genre or what category it should have been in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I think so. But I tend to think that's true.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Of almost all books.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's a little too overt. I cut my teeth on Faulkner, baby. I don't know what to tell you.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. And there are some good sentences in the Schwab. And then there are some, like, I've.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Heard sighs that I'm like, that's too much.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I get it. That's the most midwestern thing you've ever said.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Just settled it. I just settled.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Are we doing. Are we sure we need to express that, like, you know, the first time she said that women have to become vampires because the only other available options for freedom are to be nudged.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You can't say it. I mean, we just read the Bertram, right? Where we have, like this. They're even called vampires. I think even saying it's a vampire is too much. Just let it.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Everyone knows what it is.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let it linger. Let it happen. Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And there was why the. The literary genre is like my favorite genre to read, though not my, like, I guess that gets my cerebral cortex firing, but it fires up like when.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Colson Whitehead does a zone one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's like, we're gonna look at this.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Tell the truth, but tell it slanted.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. It's interesting, but I think because Bury our Bones in the Midnight Soil lives in this zone where, like, it's marketed as adult fiction. It has some grown up themes, but the sex is mostly closed door. It is not super spicy. You can, like, feel good about putting this in a younger, like a teenage reader's hands. And I think it will be read widely. And since Schwab has written YA hits in the past. Like, she's got readers all over the spectrum. I think it's going to do well.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'll tell you one the problem. I edited the episode here a little while ago. I didn't list the whole thing. I was just looking for, you know, blips and bloops. But it does. I don't think it confirms because I'm not ready to say that yet, but it does. It's exhibit D in my ve Schwab.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Is the closest inheritor to the Stephen King throne I can think of because.

[Jeff O'Neill]

She writes these big, thick genre things that go down easy and they're not subtle. They're not subtle kinds of books. I think she is writing more about something at least overtly than King is. I think there's some stuff in King that's pretty interesting.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. There are some ideas in the Schwab.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. But I think it's.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

A little too.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Subtitled or super for me. But for a half a million people, that's going to be a giant book that seems to be where we are. Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And like, it just. I don't think it puts me off. This is my first Schwab and I don't think it puts me off her in the future. It's just now I know what I'm getting that like if I need something entertaining to read on a long flight or sitting on the beach, you know, when you're a couple negronis in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I still think I like a Darker.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Shade of Magic series better than Barrier.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Bones, but that's the first is always difficult to.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I have one left.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Do you have anything left?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Me too. I have one left. Emperor of Gladness. Ocean Blong.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I haven't read it and it's. It's relatively recently I thought I looked at it. I just think if I had two more weeks, maybe I would.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think it's the trajectory that Vuong is on that did this for me. Going from like literary darling poet and you know, the first novel did very well. But like now he is being coronated by Oprah and big profile in the New York Times and an op ed in the New York Times. Like the Ocean Vuong platform is growing in a really meaningful way. And how much of that just has to do with what a compelling personality he is. How much of it is about this specific book? Who knows? But like Ocean Huang on the rise.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Also buy your stock also in the Kevin Wilson.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Change your name to the Lumberjack. I think his name is memorable.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm not kidding.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It is.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I think it matters.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Again, it's half of 1%. But it's a name people can remember when.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

When your book only comes out every four years.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Remembering your damn name is important I think.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And the titles are hard. Harder to remember. Like I. What was the first novel? Novel now but on earth we're briefly gorgeous.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That was just long.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

So Kristen Stewart, the actress she just.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Directed her first movie called the Chronology of Water and I'm like that is.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

The most literary fiction title I've ever.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

100.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm going to confuse that with a million different things. The last one on my list I'm.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Not sure if this is a reach.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Because it's one of the.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It's one of the 50 most popular books of 2025 on Goodreads which again it's a longer list but for Charmaine Wilkerson's follow up book to be doing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

As well as it is. Karifa called it one said it was one of her favorite books of the year.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

So far I have not read it yet. I heard some early buzz which maybe I shouldn't have paid attention to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Maybe I would agree with. I don't know kind of put me off of it.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

But it's appeared in some lists.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's selling quite well and for the second novel from a commercial literary person and I will say not for nothing.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

In this year of our Lord 2025.

[Jeff O'Neill]

A black woman writing commercial literary. Her second novel. I don't think it got picked by any book clubs be doing this well. I wanted to give it a special mention.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Love to see it. Love to see that for her. I know we both really liked Black Cake and when you come out of the gate as hot as she did with that one it's always like a little bit of a nail biter for how is the second book going to do? Can they sustain the attention? I also heard the early like maybe the is kind of messy. Not so sure. The early reviews were mixed and it just then became less of a priority for me but I've had my eye on it so we'll see how the end of this has real potential for me to be one that comes in the end of year cleanup.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Okay. Anything else on your list?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No, that's it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Any other honorable mentions?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Did you feel any kind of way about leaving? Great Big Beautiful Life the new freedom McFadden Ali Hazelwood Alice Feeney Abby Jimenez Fearless by Lauren Roberts I'm just going.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Through some of these other.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah because we've put all of them in the IT books. Episodes we put all of them sort of into the Stephen King category. If they have new books out, those new books are an event for their established readers. They're going to sell well. But at a certain point, it stops being a story. Like, Stephen King also has a new book out this year that is at the top of the hardcover fiction bestsellers, and we're not talking about it, so I didn't feel any kind of way about it. When Emily Henry does. Does something that makes her existing fans even be like, oh, this is new.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And when the COVID doesn't look like.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

An Emily Henry book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right. Then I'll be interested again for this as a story of the year.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

I know people like it, and I'm glad.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Not first.

[Jeff O'Neill]

There's two that I'm wondering that I might be wrong about that I didn't.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Put on the list. Or at least even.

[Jeff O'Neill]

These are things I didn't even consider.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

For honorable mention, really.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But I'm not sure I'm right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let's hear it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The John Green book. Everything is tuberculosis everywhere.

[Slow Burn Advertiser]

Mm.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It has been everywhere. I thought about it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And then my friends, the new Fredrik.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Backman book, which is doing very well.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And people really, really like this book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But, like, nobody talks about it, which makes it tough, but I also kind of glanced at that one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I do think there's a place for.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

When your name is bigger than the.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Title of the book. That's the place I don't know that every author wants to go, but for a publisher, that's the Holy Grail.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Then you're in Scrooge McDuck territory. Good for you.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But for me, it almost feels like.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It'S another season of Law and Order svu.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like, I like Las island, but it's not going to be something. I'm going to be like, oh, my God.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And, you know, like, there's exceptions to this for every reader. Like, we're both going to be stoked on Dan Brown day in September.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I want a new Dan Brown book. I know exactly what I'm getting, but for the most part, I want the title and what the book is about to matter. And for the author. The author's name carries weight for me, but we never get to the place. This doesn't happen in literary fiction. Colson Whitehead has won multiple National Book Awards, and his name is not bigger than the book title.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I don't even know who would be. You know, how big was Zadie's name on the fraud?

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

It didn't work because the book didn't Sell.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. I don't know. Not that I don't think it was bigger.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That big Z. God, that's great.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It was. It was great.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Just think how big the ax would be on the Kevin the lumberjack. The L could be the axe.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm thinking about, like, all my Toni Morrisons after she won the Nobel. And her name's not bigger than the book titles on all those.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Paradise, Love, Home, Mercy.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Slow Burn Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

My first day in Slovenia, I should have sent you a picture. I wandered into a used bookstore and I found a copy of Beloved in Slovenian.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Cool.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That came home with me.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But 1, 2, 4 was angry.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

Did you see that?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sharifa Picksula for one of the best beach reads.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, I love that. I love that Erica and Erica and.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Danica had some fun with. With that pick. I mean, again. Oh, one, two.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I've got. That's right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Slovenian. And Slovenia can translate it either way.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Slovenian.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I mean, the translator really struggle with that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I've got to listen to that beach reads episode because I came back and saw y' all chattering about how just.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like, unhinged we got off the recording. And like, God, do we laugh too much? And I'm like, I don't know. We had a good time. I feel like we'd have a good time podcasting. People can tell. And we had a good time. And we got a couple notes saying.

[Unnamed Speaker from Boston]

The laughter was fun.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So if you didn't feel that way and haven't yet emailed us, keep it in the holster.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

When you suddenly and unexpectedly feel joy, don't hesitate.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Just let it. It roll, baby. All right, podcastookride.com for the emails. Bookride.com Listen, Powell's event there other stuff on first edition, and we'll talk to you all later. Thanks for.