The Books To Watch for in 2025

Summary

Book Riot - The Podcast: "Books To Watch for in 2025" Summary

Release Date: December 30, 2024
Hosts: Jeff O'Neill and Rebecca Schinsky

In the episode titled "Books To Watch for in 2025," Book Riot's Jeff O'Neill and Rebecca Schinsky delve into the most anticipated literary releases slated for the upcoming year. Flipping the calendar mentally to embrace the future, the hosts curate a comprehensive list of ten standout books across various genres, offering listeners insights into what promises to be an exciting literary landscape in 2025.

Introduction: Shifting Focus to 2025

Jeff and Rebecca kick off the episode by emphasizing the transition from reflecting on past successes to eagerly anticipating future releases. They acknowledge the unpredictability of the publishing world but express enthusiasm for the curated selections that cater to a broad readership.

Top 10 Books to Watch for in 2025

10. Onyx Storm by Rebecca Yarros

Third installment in the Empyrean series

Rebecca introduces "Onyx Storm," highlighting its blend of fantasy elements with dragons and intense romantic undertones. She notes the series' rapid readership growth, with fans eagerly awaiting the continuation of the saga.

"It's going to sell the most copies. It's the biggest story of the first part of the year." – Jeff O'Neill [03:32]

9. King of Ashes by S.A. Cosby

A grocery store mystery thriller and the first novel by a person of color in the genre

Jeff expresses excitement about "King of Ashes," praising Cosby's sophisticated storytelling and gritty portrayal of rural political landscapes. Rebecca adds that Cosby's work is poised to make significant waves within the bookish community.

8. Atmosphere by [Author Name]

[Details about the book]

Note: The transcript does not provide the author's name or detailed synopsis for "Atmosphere."

7. The River Has Roots by Amal El-Mohtar

A fantasy novel intertwining multiple timelines and magical elements

Amal's "The River Has Roots" is celebrated for its imaginative world-building and complex character dynamics. Jeff compares it to her previous successful works, anticipating a strong reception from fantasy enthusiasts.

6. Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong

A novel exploring chosen families and unexpected friendships

Ocean Vuong's "Emperor of Gladness" is anticipated for its poetic narrative and deep emotional resonance. Rebecca predicts nominations for prestigious awards, underscoring Vuong's literary prowess.

"It's about chosen family, unexpected friendship, and the stories we tell ourselves to survive." – Rebecca Schinsky [25:25]

5. Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins

A prequel to The Hunger Games series

Jeff discusses "Sunrise on the Reaping," noting its success compared to previous entries in The Hunger Games universe. He speculates on its potential as a major movie adaptation, emphasizing its enduring popularity.

4. We Do Not Part by Han Kang

[Details about the book]

Han Kang's "We Do Not Part" is highlighted for its ghostly thriller elements and literary acclaim. The hosts express curiosity about its reception and potential as a page-turner.

3. The Dry Season by [Author Name]

Possibly a memoir or novel with deep emotional themes

The transcript does not provide comprehensive details about "The Dry Season." However, it's clear the book is anticipated for its emotional depth and storytelling.

2. Katabasis by R.F. Kuang

A dark academia fantasy involving a journey to the underworld

R.F. Kuang's "Katabasis" is praised for its intricate plot and homage to classical literature, likened to a blend of "Dante's Inferno" and works by Susanna Clarke. Jeff lauds Kuang's versatility and anticipates the book's success.

1. Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil by V.E. Schwab

A multi-timeline fantasy novel spanning Santo Domingo, London, and Boston

Securing the top spot, "Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil" by V.E. Schwab is lauded for its expansive storytelling and rich character development across different eras and locations. Jeff emphasizes the book's potential to captivate a wide audience, driven by Schwab's established fandom.

"If we had to pick a Stephen King descendant who's going to have every year, every two years, a big selling, genre-adjacent book, do you pick anyone other than her?" – Jeff O'Neill [38:05]

Discussion: Ranking Methodology and Industry Insights

Throughout the episode, Jeff and Rebecca discuss their criteria for selecting and ranking the books. They consider factors such as anticipated sales, genre diversity, author reputation, and potential for critical acclaim. The hosts also ponder the impact of book adaptations and publicity campaigns on a book's success.

"We don’t have the fall catalogs yet, which actually will probably come out in like five weeks. Random House, I know, is early February, and once that falls, a lot of the dominoes fall into place." – Jeff O'Neill [06:06]

Concluding Remarks: Embracing the Future of Reading

As the episode wraps up, Jeff and Rebecca reflect on the promising slate of books lined up for 2025. They express optimism about the diversity and quality of upcoming releases, encouraging listeners to stay engaged with the evolving literary scene.

"We're going to start the fire and then you'll see the flames." – Jeff O'Neill [Unavailable Timestamp]

Notable Quotes

• "Rarely have we been that wrong. We're wrong often because we are people. But we were, man, we were super wrong." – Rebecca Schinsky [01:24]
• "It's going to sell the most copies. It's the biggest story of the first part of the year." – Jeff O'Neill [03:32]
• "If you interpret us talking about how readers need to intentionally and purposefully pick up books by people of color as disdain for readers, you can just carry on to the next podcast, leave your one star review and get the hell out." – Jeff O'Neill [15:56]

Looking Ahead: Future Episodes and Listener Engagement

The hosts hint at future discussions, including potential book club selections and interactive segments like a "Fantasy Author League." They invite listeners to contribute ideas and engage with the podcast's evolving format.

"Maybe this could be a Patreon episode. Just to figure it. Just the rules committee's deliberations would be fun." – Jeff O'Neill [42:05]

Final Thoughts

Jeff and Rebecca wrap up the episode with gratitude towards their listeners and enthusiasm for the upcoming year's literary offerings. They emphasize the joy of discovering new stories and authors, leaving listeners with a sense of anticipation for 2025's book releases.

"Thank you so much for listening this year. I really appreciate it. I hope you had a great reading year." – Jeff O'Neill [47:05]

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For more insights and detailed discussions, listen to the full episode on Book Riot's website or follow their Patreon for exclusive content.

Transcript

[Emma Chamberlain]

Hey, it's Emma Chamberlain. I designed these new glasses for Warby Parker and I basically can't take them off. Like, I'm showering in them and sleeping in them. They're just that good. Go see them [e-mail] and you know what? Have a good day too. Okay? All right, bye.

[Unknown Sponsor Voice]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm Jeff O'Neill.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And I'm Rebecca Schinsky.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And today we have officially flipped the calendar in our hearts and minds, if not literally the calendar still. We're still in December here when we're coming to you, but it's time to look ahead, Rebecca. No more year interviews. Best of I think we can use this opportunity to wipe the slate clean for one Barack Obama and give him a pass on a truly inexplicable list, which I guess our first new shows of 2025, we can come back and take a look at that. Check. Check our Instagram to see how that all turned out and the reactions of the readers was.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Rarely have we been that wrong. We're wrong often because we are people. But we were, man, we were super wrong.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And somehow I think we're not wrong still. I don't know how it can be that his picks for himself were wrong. How can it be to express an opinion in the immoral worlds of the great John Cusack in High Fidelity? But still, it feels a little bit like I have to edit myself now.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

He zagged. He's pretty predictable. He's got a relatively regular formula to his book lists. Whether he thinks about it that way or not, there are some sort of consistent categories that he comes up in, and it tends to be relatively predictable. And he just completely went, you know, out of that lane this time around.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Anyway, we're gonna. Well, let's save it for a real show. But that's a. Maybe he has checked out like 2024 like we have, and he's like, you know, he's writing down a napkin. Hit blast it out, hit send, have the assistant throw it in Canva. And we're off. And Running what we're doing today again, we're sort of starting to slice and size 2025 a little bit because we've been recording some stuff and I'm. I'm honestly not sure what order these things are coming out, even though I'm editing and everything. But what this ep, this one is. Go ahead.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I can tell you this one is our first coverage of 2025. Following it will be our personal most anticipated and some special guests and it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Books and we've done a winter draft so it's, it's a lot of getting ready for 2025 time. So what this is is we should have at least 10 picks for not our most anticipated but books that the wider reading world is paying attention to. It is not just the top 10 for nerds. It is also not just the top 10 for people who are going to shop at Target or get on Goodreads or It's like kind of a blend of all those things in there and maybe we put our finger on the scale for some things rather than others. We have one, Rebecca, we have one that we're taking off the board is going to put it up there. It's the most anticipated, I don't know by the whole Internet. It's going to sell the most copies. It's the biggest story of the first part of the year. And it is, of course I was going to make a joke but I didn't want to make fun of all these other people I have on the list. So what is it Rebecca? What are we moving?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Onyx Storm, the third book in Rebecca Yarros Empyrean series. It's going to have sprayed edges, it's going to have dragons, it's going to have sex. That's all. I know people are excited.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm trying to think and I'm not sure what to do about this writ large. Right. Where generally when there becomes a huge hit, eventually we get around to reading it. We did with Crawdads, we did it with Colleen Hoover. And something else that I can't recall at this point. We have not yet dipped our scales into this. I don't know what to say. We are less interested in this than the Colleen Hoover thing. I have to say for both of us. Oh really? Oh, what was that?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, no, it's the series nature of it that like the Crawdads and Colleen Hoover were like normal novel sized books, 300ish and some odd pages. That's a weekend I'm happy to give a weekend to like doing science for why do people like this book? What's it all about, that whole thing. We've done it for several at this point, but this is two existing really big books and then this will be the third on Exterminal be the third really big book. And I understand that they read fast. A friend of mine just told me that she took down both Fourth Wing and Iron Flame.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You tell me offline. I need to know who.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, not even a. Not even a book industry friend. Like a civilian friend.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's how this happens.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's friends and neighbors that murder you. Yes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

A civilian friend who reads a lot of fantasy. Read the first two in like three days. So I feel like if I could saddle up but also my friend read them that fast because this is like her genre and she likes this stuff and if I get into it and I like it, I'll be off to the races. But if I get into it and I don't like it, I'm going to be staring down almost 2,000 pages.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Not my genre. Oneals Razor is very unhappy about this. Just quivering in the in the toolbox over here. But having said that, it is the book of the I mean it's hard not to see that it's going to be the biggest selling book of the year. We don't know what the fall is. We should say this most anticipated or the books to watch. I'm going to screw up that. I'm so sorry everyone. Especially to Rebecca, who knows what she's talking about today. As in most days we do not have the fall catalogs yet which actually will probably come out in like five weeks. Random House I know is early February and once that falls, a lot of the dominoes fall into place. So in six weeks. Have a better sense of the year. This is really through June, I should say. I think there might be one on my list that I saw.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I've got one in July.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But Onyx Storm is certainly going to be the book of January. Not to spoil the it book draft for you, but you can hear from our voices and tap dancing around it that we kind of wish it wasn't. So everyone enjoy themselves. Not mad about it, not excited about it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's not interesting. It's interesting. It's not predictable.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, yeah. Now it's a question of just how long. Once these big phenomena become this thing, we kind of know what they are. It's a question of how long they're going to last. Okay, Rebecca, okay with that out the board, you have yours in order. I am asking you to on the fly 10 to 1 power rank them because that's what I have what you what would be your number 10? Just looking at your eyeballs using your.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Eyeballs my number 10 using my eyeballs.

[Nicole Palmarico]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

We have one more act for you this evening. I don't even need to say his name.

[Timothee Chalamet]

Mr. Bob Dylan, a complete and known as now a Golden Globe in Critics Choice nominee for best Picture.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Bobby, what do you want to be?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Whatever it is they don't want me to be.

[Timothee Chalamet]

Timothee Chalamet astonishes as Bob Dylan in one of the best performances of the year and critics rave. Edward Norton is absolutely fantastic.

[Jeff O'Neill]

70,000 people are here and Bobby is the reason for it. They just want me singing blowing in the wind for the rest of my life.

[Emma Chamberlain]

How does it feel?

[Timothee Chalamet]

Don't miss the movie. Critics are hailing five stars. It's pure cinematic magic.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Turn it down.

[Timothee Chalamet]

Pay loud direction and name to AFI and the National Board of reviews. Top 10 films of the year.

[Unknown Voice]

Make some noise BD track some mud on a carpet.

[Timothee Chalamet]

Unknown A complete unknown now playing only in theaters. Rated R. Under 1790. Middle without parrot this year, Santa's bringing the power of Energizer into his workshop.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Whoa.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The Energizer Bunny's got so Much power.

[Unknown Voice]

Wait, he's powered up all the toys.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that means we're done for the year. I love this bunny.

[Timothee Chalamet]

He's the hardest working helper the North Pole has ever seen. And he wants all your gifts to have the power of the number one longest lasting AA battery. So this holiday season, stock up on Santa's and the elves favorite battery, Energizer Ultimate Lithium.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let's go with Wild Dark shore by Charlotte McConaughey. She is the author of Where Did It Go? Migrations. Yeah, which was a big book a couple of years ago. This is about a family on a remote island. A mysterious woman washes ashore. There's a storm on the horizon. She deals, you know, with climate and also with family and secrets. The first book was very popular. There is a quarter of a million copy, first print run announced for this. So maybe it should have been higher up on my list. But this is a literary novel. Migrations was literary. That's where McConaughey writes in that genre. And so because it is in the more literary vein and not likely to get, you know, nearly the kind of readership of something like Onyx Storm and because you asked me to power rank them on the fly, look, we're going to drop that in at 10.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We have all the, all the grace, all the plausible deniability, all of the. We're doing the best we can here. Yeah, that makes sense. I read Migrations. I really liked it, but it's one of those books that kind of like it just ran through me and I get it confused with. Wait, this. Is this Catherine May's Wintering? No, no, but it's like kind of in the same, weirdly the vibe space I'm having a trouble getting myself. But it'll sell well, do well in independent bookstores. What's the release date on that? Did you have.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, you know, I just closed my tab. It's March 4th.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay. So we got a little bit of time left from there. This got a big advance and we know it's being made into a series. And he has been in the batter's box for breaking out for a couple of books. And I feel like if it's going to happen, it's going to happen now. But King of Ashes by S.A. cosby, I have it number 10 on my list. He writes these sophisticated, gritty, rural, political in a real, but also in sort of embedded rather than overt way. I had him on first edition a while ago. Really interesting person. And we are still waiting for the first. I mean, Honestly, the first person of color to become a grocery store mystery thriller. Name writer. And I think this is our best candidate. It might be a little too dark is the only thing. I think he's a little too real and a little less anodyne than. And I don't think he's ever going to. I don't think he's going to dull the razor as these things go. But I am. I think it's going to be very anticipated in many parts of the bookish community. So I have number 10, King of Ashley essay, Cosby. I think that's June. That's my memory of this.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I just learned about that one this morning.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, nice. You were doing your homework. Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

At the Goodreads most anticipated list that just came out. And that was after I had drafted this list. So Cosby's not in this particular document, but it would have been otherwise. It's inspired by the Godfather.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, he's.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean, he's great. I will be reading the crap out of essay. All right, let's see. Number nine. I'm just playing like, Tab Roulette. Saving Five A Memoir of Hope by Amanda Nguyen. This is also a quarter of a million copy print run. She was a nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize. This is a memoir about her healing and her activism in the aftermath of being raped at Harvard. That was in 2013, and it was quite a big story. So this is survival, hope, activism. Also, she's an astronaut.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I got the publicity pitch for this a while ago, and I was like, is this the most interesting person in the world?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It might be. She might be.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I don't know I have any sense of it's any good. I need to look at the digital galley and take a look. They've got a point of order on this. No shade is in the Everglades. Here to. To. To Amanda. What is finalist for the Nobel. Can I. Where is nominee?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, we don't see the short list.

[Jeff O'Neill]

If I send an email over to Sweden. Am I not again, if I'd love to be wrong. But I was like, do they. What does that mean? Yeah, I don't get this.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Is it like, oh, you were nominated, but you. Because they don't release a short list or a long list.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know what that is. I'd love to know what if that has any teeth. That idea. But putting that aside for a moment, even if it didn't have that weird little pseudo honorific, I'm not even sure what you would call that. I'm still very interested in this. I just didn't know if people are watching for this or not. I am, but I just don't know if has any public awareness. And maybe there'll be. I think there'll be a big publicity campaign and that can move the needle. But right now the Q rating on Amanda Nguyen and saving five, I think is fairly low.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it's March 4th, so like. And March 4th is a big release date this spring. One of the biggies, I think will have a huge press tour. We'll probably see her on all the pods, npr, all that sort of stuff. Memoirs aren't really chosen for the big book clubs, but you kind of never know like, where else she will get publicity. A quarter of a million copies. The publisher has a lot of faith.

[Jeff O'Neill]

What publisher?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's McMillan. You gotta stop asking me questions after.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I keep the tab open till we've moved on.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It is McMillan.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I figured. Okay, number nine for me. Death of the Author by Nnedi Okorafor A lot of things I just said about essay Cosby I think could be applied to a core four just in the sci fi space. I do not think it's any mistake either that they're both black in terms of having not broken through. I'm very salty about the anticipated. The good. She's good. She's good. Choice. Goodreads Choice Award nominees the bestselling books of the year. I need these people to sell books. I need people who just quote, unquote, read for the stories. And I have. There's no amount of vitriol that is not included in the air quotes. You didn't see me do right there to start picking up some of these damn books, Rebecca, because these books are good. They're not scary. They're great. They're going to improve your reading life. Just pick up and buy the damn books.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I made the mistake of dipping into our itunes Apple podcast reviews recently when I was doing something else.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Why did you do that? Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It was right there. And I got to say, if you interpret us talking about how readers need to intentionally and purposefully pick up books by people of color as disdain for readers, you can just carry on to the next podcast, leave your one star.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Review and get the hell out. That's fine. That's fine.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Booktok will let you know right now that some people are just discovering that reading is political. But we've been on that tip here for a while and we do believe that books are about more than a good story. So I'LL come off my. Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean, so anyway, I mean that their own. That they're 9 and 10. They're on this list. And I can say that with, you know, I think the, the publishing industry loves and is interesting these two authors, but the people that don't work in the history don't follow specific genres and pay attention. Do they know them as well yet? Not as well as they should be. So anyway, those are. That's number nine for me. Where do you want to go next?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Number eight for me is going to be this debut novelist I'm not sure you've hear heard of Taylor Jenkins. Reid.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I just said five.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So atmosphere a love story coming out June 3rd. I'm gonna slot it here in eight on the fly because the last couple Taylor Jenkins reads have not popped in a really point big way. But the name is still very sticky. And like I am still seeing people reading the Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo in the airport. So I don't know what the demand or excitement for this new one is going to be, but it's set in the 1980s against the backdrop of the space shuttle program. The main character is a woman who's a professor of physics and astronomy. And she has been happy with her life, like, adjacent to space until she sees an ad that NASA is looking for women scientists to join the space shuttle program. And she wants to be one of the, you know, first women, one of the few people ever to go to space. And maybe she falls in love while she's doing that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's weird because with Reed, the last couple, the last one was about tennis, right. And this one is about space. And she kind, I don't know, like kind of picking topics that already had a. A bit of a run. Like. So we, I don't know if people know that For All Mankind is a fifth season on Apple TV has an alternative history where women are integral to the astronaut program, which they actually were. And Adam Higginbothen talks about this in Challenger for sure. But actually going into space and being a become a people, that's already kind of happened. And with tennis, we got challengers like, I don't know, weirdly, after Daisy Jones and the six, she's kind of been off the zeitgeist by like six months or a year, kind of weirdly or.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It just takes longer for books to catch up to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Maybe these are done. That's actually right, though, for All Mankind. Been out for five years.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I can't imagine doing that one. Fly Me to the Moon was out last Year. But that's like all the astronauts are.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Dudes, all the other dudes. So. And I don't know, it's. It's up in the air to me that Taylor Jenkins Reid is a name or that the 7 half deaths of 11 is hardcast. Everlyn Hardcast, whatever the name of that damn book is. Like, is it kind of a. That's the book. And I don't know who I'm not following up on reading it. The other ones.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. You know, when Daisy Jones and the Six came out, it felt like that was going to be the biggest thing she had had. It was everywhere. Of course, that's the one already has a signal adaptation. The Evelyn Hugo adaptation has been in the works for long enough that I am starting to suspect we might not actually see it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Have you read that, by the way?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No. I was going to wait until the adaptation came out and every time I see people reading it in the airport, I think like, oh, maybe this will be the trip. But I was just going to hold onto it. It's kind of looking to me now like, I don't know if we're at make or break point for Taylor Jenkins Reid of like, where is she going to end up in the pantheon? But it's totally possible that rather than becoming like a go to name brand author, she'll have the pair of Evelyn Hugo and Daisy Jones. So I'm going to be watching what happens with atmosphere.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, very interesting. Malibu. The only one I've read is Malibu Rising, which I liked, which is about surfing, which was cool. Okay, number eight for me. I could have put this higher, but I wasn't really sure. The disparity between the amount of press coverage this will get and the number of people who read it all the way through is the biggest gap we have on the board because I like history, I like American literature.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I know where we're going.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But 1200 pages, Rebecca is. That's a big ask. And I'm not sure what to do with this. It's going to be in a lot of tables, a lot of Father's Day books.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm guessing May 13th. Right in time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But boy, oh boy, is Chernow flexing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, this was my number seven for the same reasons. Like it'll get a ton of coverage. There will maybe be like interesting excerpts, turnout will do a huge press tour. I think this is one of those that will sell a lot more copies of it than will actually be read, which of course we can never know. But that's how those big biographies Tend to go, what has Ron Chernow turned up about Mark Twain that we don't already know Is I think one of the hinge questions for this. If there are new hooks to hang a publicity campaign on, that would be interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Imagine if you were a Mark Twain scholar right now.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I know. This got announced several months ago and I texted our dear friend and former co worker Amanda Nelson. Like Ron Chernow 1200 pages on Mark Twain. She was like, I'm in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Is she really?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, she was in spirit. We'll see.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, if she can get herself pointed at it, she'll read it it because I know Amanda and how that will work. The question is, can you get started? Like I wonder it this will never happen because Lin Man Moran is getting paid too much. But I would love the Lin Manuel Miranda Mark Twain musical. It would be so wild.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It would be amazing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Coming off James and everything. Very interesting.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Maybe Percival Everett should write it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm not sure where he is on where he's at on musicals. That would be the great Zach that he's like, it's a Broadway, you know, hello dolly style 1950s musical. Just straight ahead.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, just a Percival Everett shot straight down the middle would be so surprising that we wouldn't trust that it was actually straight down the middle. I would spend the whole time being like, what am I missing?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, Great Big Beautiful life by Henry Emily Henry. Co written with Percival Everett. That'd be the weirdest thing that could ever happen. Sorry, I'm tipping my hand here. So that was your number seven?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That was my number seven.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So my number seven is. I need to remind myself what the hook for this is. So Amal El Mohtar's new book the river has Roots is coming out again on that Titanic March 4th. You may know her from being the co writer from the wildly successful Weirdly in one of the great stories of 2023. I think that was a 2023 story. The. The biggest dickelis in all this was that 2023. We didn't talk about it in review, so it must.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, no, it wasn't this year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So solo debut. And this river goes to the edge of this fairy town. And for those of you don't know, this is fairy F A E R I E which is a little bit different than whatever. It's this magical land of the fairy and the fae. A a fantasy book. This family is there and they take care of plants. And I'm guessing something goes wrong because otherwise it's just people tending plants on a magical river. Which hey that could be a good time. Sure. That's I don't feel like that's a what Amal El Mohtar is going to be interested in. Probably not very very interested to see what this this is one of my probably five most anticipated books of the first half of the year. Just going to see what she wants to do and then the sales and do people pay attention all the thing that goes into it. So that's the river has roots. A very cool cover. Kind of a mix of fantasy and sci fi ish element going on here. I don't really know what to make it a murderer's row a fantasy spec fic writers on the blurbs which you wouldn't suggest. Also the the two main characters are sisters with singing something like a complicated relationship. Sisters do well whether it's frozen or best friend slash sisters wicked. This is one of the things people underestimate bad sisters. This works somewhere and this could be a real hit. I. I don't know. Depending how weird it is. I don't know if the Book Talk crew is going to pick it up and I'm curious to see. I have so many questions Rebecca about the River Razor. So that's why I have it here at number seven for me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. My six is going to be the Emperor of Gladness by Ocean vuong comes out May 13. Big novel, more than 400 pages about chosen family, unexpected friendship and the stories we tell ourselves in order to survive. There is a corner of the bookternet for whom I know this is the number one most anticipated title. The folks who love Ocean Vuong really love Ocean Vuong. I'm in the camp, you know, not my number one. But I will really be looking forward to this novels by poets. I'm just going to go ahead and say we're probably going to see Ocean Vuong get nominated for the National Book Award.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Wow. Okay. Interesting. All right, my number six then. Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

These books have been more successful than I anticipated. The Hunger Games fandom has held up better than I expected. I do wonder how much of that this is not something you could know is in the erosion of full throated, full hearted adoration of the HP franchise. I wonder how many have sort of fallen back into like okay, here's when I can get behind. And yeah, Suzanne Collins, we don't know much about her necessarily. She's definitely not out there blasting out tweets about how who should be in whose bathroom and all that kind of stuff. But the Song of Songbirds and Snakes did very well as a book. Surprising well as a movie. I'm sure this will get a movie as well. This is Hunger Games prequel. I'm not sure which part it is. I really don't. Oh, actually I do remember it's young Haymitch, which is the character, if you don't know the books as well, was played by Woody Harrelson in the movies. A really cool part, actually. Very hard part to cast, I would think, but a very cool part for someone. One of the more if not the most beloved character from the movies, I would say at this point. Everybody?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think so.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Why not? So that's going to get a big release. It's going to sell a bunch and sort of no one will talk about it I think is kind of how this is going to go. But it's certainly at this point one of the books on the radar and on the calendar for the year.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay, so that brings us to five. We're halfway through here. Mine is Katabasis by R.F. kuang. Coming out August 26th. 560 pages, 500,000 copy print run for a deluxe limited edition. Katabasis is the ancient Greek word that means the story of a hero's descent to the underworld. This is about two graduate students who have to put aside their rivalry and journey to hell to save their professor's soul. Perhaps at the cost of their own dark academia fantasy that's billed as Dante's Inferno meets Susanna Clark. If I'm going to do a five.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This was my two. This is my two.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

All right. If I'm going to do a dark academia 560 page situation, I'm going to do it with RF Kwong.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sounds a little bit more like on the Babel tip than yellowface, which is fine. I liked Babel and I think this will be really interesting. Yeah, people are very, very excited for this Kwong we talked about maybe the most interesting single writer in terms of the breadth of what she does. Her prolificness is that is that you would nominalized her prolific. I don't know and can kind of do and you know she's still working on or maybe she finished I don't know a PhD in these days East Asian languages over there. One of the Oxbridge institutions. I can never keep track of which one in the field in the sky's the limit territory here. Very, very interesting. If I had to bet, and this is too long of a bet, if we had to pick a Stephen King descendant who's going to have every year every two years. A big selling, genre adjacent kind of book. Do you pick anyone other than her? Yeah, I'm not saying that she's going to. I'm saying do you pick anyone other than her?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't think so. And I'm looking at the rest of my tabs and realizing I should have saved this one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Why? Oh, for what? One is.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, for what would be up higher. So that's all right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay. That's okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We're on the fly. You're gonna walk away with a list of books to look for.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's fine. And I, you know, I'm making you do something we, you know, you didn't get the homework in enough time. And I really didn't have this locked down either. That was my number two. So my number five is atmosphere. And then let's take a sponsor break and we'll get into top fours and round it out.

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay where I go for all kinds of things I love. And there it was, that hologram trading card.

[Jeff O'Neill]

One of the rarest, the last one I needed for my set. Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams. One of a kind.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Ebay had it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you.

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[Timothee Chalamet]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

No more annoying, just beautiful.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Whatever you love, find it on eBay. EBay. Things people love.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So since my number five was atmosphere, which you already talked about that, then kicks it back over to you for whatever you have, whatever your four that you have left.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Whatever my four that I have left? Yeah. In no particular order at this point, Matriarch by Tina Knowles, the mother of Beyonce and Solange. I think this is going to be the celebrity memoir of the spring. Comes out April 22 from One World Press. A glorious chronicle of a life like none other is the billing here. Tina Knowles has seen some stuff. Her daughters have fascinating and pretty divergent careers. And jz unfortunately in the news recently for associations with P. Diddy. So who knows how that is all gonna turn but there's a lot of time between now and April 22nd when the book comes out. So the grimacey face you're making right now, I imagine is the one that the publicists for this book have been making of like, what are we gonna do? How's it all going to sh. But there is a world in which this is a huge book with like lots of headlines, gossipy revelations. I have no idea what direction she's gonna go in this, which I think will draw some readers into it. She is of course, like much less of a draw than it would be to get a Beyonce memoir. But Tina Knowles is a known figure in her own right. And as I looked through like what are the celebrity memoirs of the spring? This is a real standout.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It was a weak crop, I thought of celebrity books. I was looking for something to put there. I don't know the history of. You're not the person, but you're super adjacent to the person for these kinds of books. I couldn't think of a really good one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

There's the one about Venus and Serena Williams's dad.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, right. I guess.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I guess when the parents are like. I mean Tina Knowles was like integral to the creation of Destiny's Child and Beyonce's early career. I watched a lot of 1990s MTV, so I can tell you that much. So I think she's got some interesting stories.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I think there's something about Richard Williams. Like even just the visual of him on the tennis court is different than in a studio. Send an email saying just kind of a different visual. But that's a. That's a good example. I didn't have that on. I'd be curious to see how that's gonna end up. Number four. I have we do not part by Hong Kong which comes out in January. That is of course the raining Nobel prize for literature laureate who has extremely well timed new book coming out in January. Sounds like as a ghosty thriller vibe which is you could do worse to have for a people maybe want to take a spin with you if they haven't. The vegetarian sold very well. So I think she has some name recognition. This is a four quadrant kind of a situation. Potentially has all the. Has all this, I don't know honorifics in the world. All the lit cred you could possibly get has sold a book at scale at least for a literary fiction kind of title. End of year prizing very much on the board. Be very curious to see if it's good or not. Good is the wrong word. If it has a page turner element to it. Yeah. If it's got a little bit of that, then it could go really hard.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So heady.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So it'll really depend.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So that's my four. So back to your three.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. That was going to be my two. So. Yeah, to my three. I'm going to pick. What am I going to pick? The Dry Season, A memoir of Pleasure in a Year Without Sex by Melissa Febos. June 3 from Knopf. Melissa Febos, fascinating career.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Terrific, provocative essays. Abandon Me Bodywork, Girlhood is the one that I have read most recently that came out in 2021. Talked about it here on the show and this exactly what it says on the tin. A memoir of a celibate year. Why? Phoebos, who had previously, like in a past career, decades ago, worked as a dominatrix and one of her first books is about that, writes a lot about sex and sexuality and her relationships. And so this would be an interesting project for anyone to take on and write about it, but for Melissa Febos as who she is to choose to go to have a celibate year and why and what she learned from it, I cannot wait.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, a real twin in my boy. I'm interested in this, but I'm not sure if we get there with Edmund White's memoir, which you're going to hear us talk about later. Even the. Even the desert is. Makes me nervous. Let me just say. The monsoon and the desert.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I will. I will go into both of these and let you know.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Really good writer, interesting person.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Got her sentences.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, Very good writer.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I always come away from her books, like, shaken up and thinking about them for weeks. And that tells you something.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I have. I think for this exercise, I have to put Great Big Beautiful Life by Emily Henry.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think it makes sense. It's number three. We're struggling what to do with these kinds of writers that do a book a year and they're right in. They're right in their lane and they're blasting through the lane, and people who like that really enjoy it. But you're gonna get exactly what you expect and want. And for what you and I do and what we're interested in, this is not it. Maybe one get a taste of the. The flavor. But I. Next time I come to the ice cream parlor, I want something other than the extremely good vanilla. Extremely good vanilla is great, but I'm kind of looking for something else most of the time. This is going to sell a million copies. We've clearly minted the next Romance, grocery store commercial romance writer. She has emerged as the one amongst a very popular and growing and thriving genre. And it's not a mistake that like Daniel Steele and Nora Roberts before her, it is a little bit, you know what you're gonna get. This is actually a little bit less interesting to me, I think, than Nora Roberts or Daniel Steelers. I think those have more of an edge, frankly, have had historically. But in this genre right now, most people that are buying these don't seem to be looking for edge. And there's other books out there that you can get a lot of different things. And this maybe goes down to, you know, some other things we're saying about bestsellers right now. But this is going to sell a million copies, can be all over, and then in three months people are going to forget the name of the.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I love that. Came out this year off my 10 because I feel like we should have just put it on the list with Onyx Storm of like there's a new Emily Henry. But I think all of your reasons for having it right. Yeah, we could definitely say that are strong. Okay, so our twos we've both mentioned. My two was We Do Not Fall Apart by Han Kang. And your two was Katabasis by RF Kuang. Yeah, someone please tell us how to say that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, if you know Ancient Greek well enough, please let us know. That's.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So I guess my one is going to be the Antidote by Karen Russell. I think Karen Russell came before her time. Like she hit before the literary genre mashup thing was really big. Swamplandia and St. Lucy's Home for Girls Raised by Wolves, which was her short story collection, her debut short story collection. Those are both great and they're so quirky. And I think there's more appetite for what Karen Russell does now than there was when she first came onto the scene. She was nominated for a Pulitzer. She won a MacArthur genius grant. Swamplandia was a bestseller. And this is set in a fictional town in Nebraska during a dust storm in the Great Depression. And there's a prairie witch or a woman who is a prairie witch of some kind. Deals with the nation's forgetting deals obviously with some climate stuff. And it will all be more than a little bit slant because of who Karen Russell is. So that is March 11th from Knopf, my number one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I, I, I. This is what it says on macmillan homepage. And I can't believe it's true because it's a 500,000 copy stated first edition print run. It says that all of them will be signed. How is that possible?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Book plates with a. Printed.

[Jeff O'Neill]

With an auto pen. Like or.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Or.

[Jeff O'Neill]

What's the math on that?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So I. Anyway, this is my number one is Bury our bones in the Midnight soil by V. E. Schwab, who is kind of there with Leigh Bardugo and Kwong two of this next generation of genre adjacent writer. I guess they're pretty genre writers. They. Or whatever. Fantasy adjacent more than anything. But also you get a lot of different stuff. It's a little hard to describe what they're working on right now. The Invisible Life of Addie Larue was a giant hit. I really liked her. What was it called? The Darkness. Got it. What is the name of that? Anyway, it's been out for a while. Huge fandom. You know, maybe Schwab. I'd put on like, that's a. That's a Patreon episode. The king. The king. The dauphin for this king. Who could maybe inherit that role. Kashwab is maybe on there as well. Or I think is on there. But if we had to pick one, what would you pick? So this one, the synopsis is very short. There's three timelines. Santo Domingo in the 16th century, London in the early 19th century, and then Boston in 2019. And here's the synopsis. Three women, their bodies planted in the same soil, their stories dangling like roots. One grows high, one grows deep, and one grows wild. And all of them grow teeth. And that's it from. Schwab does not like to write a short book. This is 500 plus pages. But that is kind of.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think you're looking for that fantasy.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, Yeah. I think people want this. I am not people, as we are well known at this point. But this or the Kwong. I was kind of going back and forth, I think. I don't know. I don't know. I'd love to know what will sell more at the end of the day. Oh, but it's going to be close. It all depends on which one is more fun to read, I think. And notice I said not better. I said fun.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

More fun to read.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Book sales come. Come down to something other than better, at least in my estimation. So that's mine there, Rebecca.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay. What do you think of that slate?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think this is a pretty interesting slate.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it was, you know, it was tough doing this on the fly, but I also am not like wringing my hands about it because as we've talked about in some of our other, like, prep for 2025 coverage the spring looks a little soft which means that you can move things around and end up with a list where it's like ah, this could have been seven, this could have been two. Really depends on how you factor in in the big names. Especially in some of those genre hits. I leaned a little more literary. I think these are solid lists. I think you would win if we were voting on this one. You got some of the bigger names.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, I took on my guess for sure and I keep wondering like there's some way to do a maybe when the fall catalogs come out, is there some way for us to do this? Long wondered about fantasy football equivalent for books. We tried something on BR or Greg Zimmerman wrote for us. It kind of blew up in a. In a bad way because anyway, just. Let's just say that not all the categories were well thought out necessarily in hindsight. But like if we had a list we could pick 20, like here's our team and you got point for. If you're on the circana best selling books of the year at the end of the list that's some number of points. If you're a finalist for one of the major awards, that's something. If you win, it's more points. If you are on some of the major lists, you get double points. If you get lit hub does this what what books appeared on the most list. Maybe you get a point per like there's some fun way of doing this that wouldn't be a huge list. Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It could also be like if you get picked for one of the biggest book clubs, if you get an adaptation announced.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. Yeah, let's think about that and podcast.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Bookright.Com if you got some ideas for categories and everything because this would be fun and I think it's also something. We did it right. Maybe we could have listener fill out bracket or forms and I don't know how we'd automatically score. The scoring is the hard part start.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think this is definitely a game for the fall when we can see the whole year's slate of books and you know it's coming out in the fall you'll have some heavy hitters. So we could either just do fall releases through that prism or look at the whole year and be able to like pull the data and you know, retroactively.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know which one's the most fun. Right. If we like as soon as we know the fall books. Because fantasy. I'm trying in fantasy you pick before the season starts and maybe we could do Something where we have a list of 10 books and then each month we get. Because in fantasy, you can get someone off waivers. You can trade.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So maybe every.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Every month we could say, switch one. We'd have one. Swap a month for something. That would be fun.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, let's. I'll put this into the sinker for.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, maybe that's a Patreon episode. Just to figure it. Just the rules committee's deliberations would be fun. Yeah. And maybe we get Sharif and Vanessa to join us. We have four.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, yeah, you gotta have a fantasy books.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You gotta have a league. Yeah, you gotta have a league. So anyway. Or. Yeah. Or some other way. If people have good ideas.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'd love to. All right. Couple honorable mentions.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. Vera or Faith, A novel by Gary Steingart. July 8th. I love me some gifts.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I love this. I wanted to find a way to put it at 10.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I couldn't do it. 256 pages. You love to see that. A poignant, sharp eyed and bitterly funny tale of a family struggling to stay together in a country rapidly falling apart. Told through the eyes of their children.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Too soon, Gary. Too soon.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean, dude wrote a Covid novel that managed to be good during COVID So I trust Gary and also probably the only writer that I'm in for, a precocious child narrator. Because I don't think it's going to be straight ahead.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And he'll take the piss out of that for sure.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes. Yeah, that'll be super fun. So I'm looking forward to that. That's much higher on my personal anticipated list. Coming March 11th from Echo is Karen Feeding, a memoir by Laurie Wooliver. She was Anthony Bourdain Gaines, longtime assistant. Gonna be potentially very interesting. We will see. But I have my eye on that one. I think the Internet is gonna have a lot to say about one day. Everyone will have always been against this. By Omar El akkad, coming out February 25. Largely about the war in Gaza and, you know, perspectives that have been offered, actions that have been taken or not taken, and how Akkad sees this landing in the long term. This is one of those that Internet discourse I think is going to be much more interested in than the broader reading public, but I would like to see some big discussion of it. And then February 11th, Stone Yard devotional by Charlotte Wood, which was shortlisted for the Booker and it has been out in the uk, is coming out in the US for the first time. So I'm gonna have my eye on that one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We got a couple of listener emails about that book saying, yeah, do you like the. Trying to think what we were comparing it to, but something where you just like to be in the world. Like, it feels interesting and good to be there. Maybe not as potty. I'm looking for that. I'm saving sort of my. We're doing some more about my own most anticipated things that I thought could have been on this list if I dragged it out to 12 or 15. Stephen King has a new book coming out called Never Flinch. Okay. Ali Hazelwood has a book coming out. Again, not sure really to do Audition by Katie Kitamura and Flashlight Boost by Susan Choi, literary favorite. That sold pretty well. We're gonna see if they level up or if they're good or how that's gonna go. Source Code by Bill Gates is the other memoir I looked at. I'm not sure where we all are.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

On Bill Yates right now, but I'm making a face.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't have to anticipate it myself, but it's gonna be a thing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It will be a thing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And then Ray Naylor's follow up, where the Ax is Buried, the Mountain in the Sea was a breakout. Kind of a sleeper fantasy. Hit it for all you. Octopi stands out there. This is his new book, the book after the breakout. Always interesting to watch. So I think, especially in the sci fi community, that's one people are going to be paying attention to. The rest are. I'm going to keep my powder dry on some other notes here. All right, Rebecca. Shaping up to be a good year. What are. What are book clubable for us?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Ooh, book clubable.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Kong Kwong, Death of the Author. King of Ashes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, Taylor Jenkins Reed.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We're gonna book club that. You and I, I think.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, for us. Sorry, I thought we haven't talked about.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The other thing that you're talking about. Oh, no, no.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I thought you meant, like, both of.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Us are talking about three different things that we're not supposed to be talking about or we don't know.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I was making guesses about Read with Jenna.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, Read with Jenna. The.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Read the big book clubs. Book clubable. Between you and me, we got. We gotta think about this.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Kwong.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, definitely the Kwong. Probably the Karen Russell.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Russell Kitamura.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Be fun.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Not a lot of. Not a lot of shared wheelhouse picks, I guess.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Besides the. Well, Gary Stinger.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, the Steingard. That'll be a good time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That'd be fun. Okay, podcast bookride.com. you can go show notesbookride.com. listen check out the Patreon. The winner draft is coming correct even though we've already recorded and it's in the can. I'm going to edit it later today.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Are so out of like time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, we're trying to get it all getting things put together. Thank you so much for listening this year. I really appreciate it. I hope you had a great reading year. I guess what we're really looking for is notes on how to assemble how can we score in Fantasy Author League in a way that's not gross. Yeah, yeah. No, no. If they get canceled, we're not gonna. If they die, none of that stuff we don't want to plagiarism, no scandal related stuff. All positive.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You don't get any points for scandal.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, in fantasy football it's all you don't get any points for. They fumbled or tore their acl. We're not looking for that. We're looking for positive yardage plays for each of these authors here. Rebecca, thank you and we'll talk to you in the new year.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Y'all have a good one.

[Nicole Palmarico]

Thanks so much for listening today. Now please enjoy this excerpt from the audiobook of Long Live the Definitive Guide to the Folklore and Fandom of Taylor Swift by Nicole Palmarico. Thanks to Hachette Audio for sponsoring I.

[Unknown Voice]

Was a senior in high school in 2006 when I heard Taylor Swift for the first time. I've never been a big fan of country music, but my parents would listen to country radio sometimes. The local station was on in the car one day while I was running errands with my mom, and when our song started playing, Taylor's voice grabbed me right away. This wasn't another man singing in a deep voice about how he lost his truck and his girl all on the same day. Listening to her lyrics, I realized the way she sounded wasn't the only thing different about her. When we got home, I looked her up on MySpace and almost 20 years later I became an entertainment journalist who gets to focus on Taylor Swift every day. A Place in this World Anyone who's been a fan of Taylor Swift since her debut album was released on October 24, 2006, probably has had the unique experience of explaining who Taylor Swift is to at least one of their friends. Today, Swifties joke a lot about their favorite indie artist, but back then she actually was our favorite indie artist. She also sang with a southern accent, so a lot has obviously changed since then. If it seems like Taylor is one of the most hard working people in the music industry, that's because she is, and she always has been before and even after she signed with Big Machine Records. We'll revisit that can of worms later. Taylor did the legwork required to get noticed by the powers that be in the music industry from the time she was a kid. I made up this demo CD of me singing karaoke music and went to Nashville with my mom and she would park outside record labels and I would run in and be like, like, hey, I'm Taylor, I'm 11. I want a record deal. Call me, she said on a 2008 episode of the Ellen DeGeneres Show. By the way, this was right around the time that Taylor sang the national anthem at the US Open in that fabulously patriotic American flag outfit. Just in case anyone needs an iconic fashion moment like that one to ground them in the timeline. That method didn't quite work for her, but she didn't give up. Two years later, her family left their home state of Pennsylvania in Favor of Nashville, Tennessee, where 15 year old Taylor would soon sign a songwriting deal with Sony ATV Tree Music Publishing. Also around this time, Taylor and Scott Borchetta, the CEO of Big Machine Records, met for the first time at the legendary Bluebird Cafe after she invited him to see her perform. But even though his is the name that always gets tossed around when we're talking about the people who were instrumental in launching Taylor's career, one country star may have had some special influence on getting her signed. Toby Keith, who was working with Borchetta to launch Big Machine as a partnership with his own label, show dog Nashville. In 2005, Nashville's WSM4V interviewed Taylor at her high school no big deal, ahead of the release of her first album, and she explained that she performed for him at her first meeting with Big Machine. Taylor's first single ever, Tim McGraw, came out in the summer of 2006, with her debut album, Taylor Swift, following on October 24th. It's impossible to know if she knew she wouldn't be sticking with country music forever at that point, but choosing to begin her career there really was a genius move at the time. She was filling a huge gap in the genre. Successful young country stars were few and far between, and so were women. And now for a mind boggling fact, only two women in history have ever debuted on the Hot 100 country chart at number one as a solo act. Those women are Taylor Swift and Beyonce. And Beyonce didn't achieve this until 2024 with Texas Hold'em. Starting out in this genre also gave her the chance to really flex the talent that makes the magic of Taylor Swift happen. Her songwriting skills country music is known for its storytelling, and Taylor is nothing if not a storyteller. I wasn't a country fan when I discovered Taylor, but her words hooked me, and I know I'm not the only fan who feels this way. Taylor knew how important writing her own music was, too. Even then. While talking to Entertainment Weekly in July 2007, she said, I didn't want to just be another girl singer. I wanted there to be something that set me apart, and I knew that had to be my writing. While one of the biggest criticisms of Taylor's music at the time was that she only sings about boys, it was not true. Not even on her very first album. Though Taylor certainly sang about love and heartbreak in songs like Teardrops on My Guitar and Should have said no, she also covered topics that listeners her age could relate to.