The Books We Still Want to Read in 2025

Summary

Book Riot – The Podcast

Episode: The Books We Still Want to Read in 2025
Hosts: Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Shinsky
Date: November 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Shinsky take stock as 2025 winds down, discussing the books still on their personal to-be-read (TBR) lists. With the major new releases of the year behind them, the hosts talk about “mop-up” season, highlight big literary award winners, discuss notable titles they've missed so far, and dig into why some books demand urgent reading while others can (or can't) wait. The conversation ranges from Booker Prize surprises to memoirs, buzzy debuts, and the emotional calculus of reading with finite time left in the year.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

The End-of-Year TBR Ritual

• Setting the Internal Rules: Neither host strictly plans what they’ll read, preferring a flexible “theoretical stack.”
  • Rebecca: “This is not a promise. This is not a blood oath. This is just what we still have on our list that we haven't got to.” (01:20)
  • The “10 before the end” trend on BookTok inspires this year’s episode. (02:20)
• Awards & Lists Influence: Major literary awards and ‘Best Of’ lists heavily sway their priorities as the year closes.
  • Jeff: “Maybe my number one overall draft pick is because of yesterday, to be perfectly honest with you, Rebecca, me too.” (01:18)

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Diving Into Specific Books

1. Booker Prize Winner — Flesh by David Zaslay

• Summary: A “young guy goes to the big city” tale, but uniquely told—no interiority, only outside perspectives.
  • Jeff: “It must be excellent because that is if not the most generic literary fiction story, I don't know what is.” (06:27)
  • Rebecca: “It strips away interiority from the stories... we meet and understand this character entirely by the observations and reactions that all of the people he interacts with have to him.” (08:20)
  • Quote: “Roddy Doyle... said... none of us had ever read anything quite like this... utter singularity of style.” (09:18)

2. Maggie: Whatever the Thing Is, I Call My Tumor — Katie

• Short, sharp, and impactful. Jeff’s intrigued by the brevity; Rebecca recommends it.
  • Jeff: “Short and I could use something short.” (10:39)

3. Kaplan's Plot — Jason Diamond

• Chicago love and literary debut: Rebecca is eager to pick it up after missing the week it released.
  • Rebecca: “It was one of the finalists for the Barnes and Noble Discover Award this year for best first novel... it’s been sitting here waiting for me.” (10:42)

4. Who Is Government? — Michael Lewis

• Why Lewis books last: Jeff views this as “always waiting for me” due to Lewis’s reliability.
  • Jeff: “There are some authors that if I don't catch them in the year, it gives me a little more of a grace period...” (12:19)

5. Some Bright Nowhere — Ann Packer

• Both see Packer as an author to dip in and out of—not urgent, but on the radar.
  • Rebecca: “If I miss this Ann Packer, I'll pick up another one in the future.” (12:36)

6. Uncool — Cameron Crow

• Unexpectedly low media presence, but Jeff’s up next on audio.
  • Jeff: “I thought there would be a huge Cameron Crow... tour. And if that has happened, it has not appeared in my feeds...” (14:15)
  • Rebecca: “He was on the New York Times interview podcast... but... not many other big [shows].” (14:51)

7. Memoir Mini-Round

• Rebecca: “Next of Kin by Gabrielle Hamilton... I have tried to avoid knowing what parts of her life she's writing about in it because I just want to go into it cold...” (16:05)
• Jeff’s bench:
  • Girl Warrior — Joy Harjo: Coming of age, Native American themes. (16:38)
  • Helen Garner memoirs: Interest in cultural crossovers and sports-adjacency. (17:10)
  • Rebecca: “I've been seeing the renaissance as well... but I don't know anything about her or where to start.” (17:03)
  • Does This Make Me Funny? — Zozian Mamet: Jeff’s on the fence. “Had I infinite time, I might.” (18:03)

8. Palaver — Bryan Washington

• Both have it on their lists, hoping it might become an award winner.
  • Rebecca: “I have my fingers crossed maybe see him win some awards later...” (18:28)

9. The Buffalo Hunter Hunter — Stephen Graham Jones

• Rebecca’s hesitating—unsure if it’s the right intro to the author’s work.
  • Rebecca: “Is this the right book to be my first Stephen Graham Jones or should I go back to some other Stephen Graham Jones?” (19:09)

10. Black Owned — Char Adams

• Deep-dive history about Black bookstores excites Jeff. (20:02)

11. Tim Berners-Lee: This Is for Everyone

• Jeff’s fascinated by Internet origins—and his “complicated relationship” with the web.
  • Jeff: “My own relationship to the Internet right now is... we’re seeing a counselor. Neither of us have much hope, but we’re going through the motions.” (21:27)

12. Every Screen on the Planet — Emily Baker White

• Books about tech/social media over-saturation; both express fatigue.
  • Jeff: “If I have any chance of salvaging the relationship with me in the Internet, I cannot read these Tick Tock [books]...” (22:05)
  • Rebecca: “At this point, [I’m] reading the reporting and experiencing how bad it is myself... I’m out on those...” (22:20)

13. Cursed Daughters — Oyinkan Braithwaite

• Both excited for a new title from author of My Sister the Serial Killer.
  • Rebecca: “Not my typical genre, but it was really funny. And I pay attention when the mystery/thriller people are like, no, this one is special.” (23:55)

14. One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This — Omar El Akkad

• Rebecca recognizes its importance but dreads the emotional challenge.
  • Rebecca: “It's on the list, but we'll see. We'll see how strong I am...” (24:19)

15. Will There Ever Be Another You? — Patricia Lockwood

• Highly stylized, divisive novel. Jeff’s hesitant; Rebecca advises: “It's more Lockwoody than other Lockwoods.” (26:43)

16. Heart the Lover — Lily King

• On Jeff’s maybe list; strongly liked by Rebecca. (24:38)

17. Lonely Sunny — Kiran Desai

• Both mention length as a barrier, but intrigued by critical attention.
  • Rebecca: “If it were not 688 pages, probably you would get to it faster.” (25:00)
  • Jeff: “When readers are just self-directed... a big juicy novel about friendship like—sign me up.” (27:37)

18. The Eleventh Hour — Salman Rushdie

• Comes up as a fresh reminder of Rushdie’s literary powers.
  • Rebecca: “Old men waiting to die. Like, come on.” (28:24)

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“I’m Good”/Out-of-the-Queue Books

• Hosts share books they’re okay not finishing:
  • Jeff: “I think I'm good with careless people... On the Elizabeth Gilbert book, I think I'm good.” (23:11)
  • Rebecca: “As much as I would love to receive your texts while you read [it]... I don’t want you to go through that.” (23:25)

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Quirky, Off-the-Beaten-Path Picks

• Squirrel: How a Backyard Forager Shapes Our World — Nancy Castellato
  • Jeff: “I don't know what that says about me. I don't know it says about Nancy here. I don't know what it says about squirrels. But... I'm in sourceled. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna get there.” (30:41)
  • Rebecca: “I'm just so thrilled for you that that exists.” (30:43)

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Other TBR Mentions

• Sola — Allegra Goodman (31:02)
• We the People — Jill Lepore (“giant Constitution book” – likely for 2026) (31:09)
• The History of Money — David McWilliams (31:47)
• The Bourdain Reader — Jeff “might just buy to have” (32:30)
• Is a River Alive? — Robert Macfarlane (32:47)
• The Emergency — George Packer (34:06)
• New Ian McEwan novel — Rebecca: “I’m gonna need to hear a really compelling pitch.” (34:16)
• El Dorado Drive — Megan Abbott
• Vera or Faith — Gary Shteyngart
• Red Loaves and Bread and I's (Travis Baldree Legends and Lattes Book 3) — Jeff plans to read over Christmas. (35:45)
• Sherry Thomas’s The Librarians (mystery, wintertime read) (35:45)
• The Road to Tender Hearts — Annie Hartnett (Rebecca: “Warm and lovely is where I want to be on December 27th.”) (36:01)
• The Persian — David McCloskey (spy novel) (36:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Booker Prize Livestream:
  • Rebecca [07:03]: “The live chat on the Booker Prize livestream is a microcosm of every Internet space... First it was like, yay, book people. And then... if the nerds that come out to watch the Booker livestream can’t sit still for an extra two minutes... we are all really in trouble.”
• Jeff’s Take on Technology Books:
  • Jeff [22:05]: “If I have any chance of salvaging the relationship with me in the Internet, I cannot read these Tick Tock books...”
• Rebecca’s “I’m Good” Books:
  • Rebecca [23:25]: “As much as I would love to receive your texts while you read the Elizabeth Gilbert book, I don’t want you to go through that.”
• On Reading Fatigue:
  • Jeff [25:46]: “When I’ve got 10 days or 10 weeks or 10 books, I need a little more than ‘it’ll be interesting as an exercise’.”
• Squirrel Book Cheer:
  • Jeff [30:41]: “Squirrel: How a Backyard Forager Shapes Our World. I’m in sourceled. I’m gonna go. I’m gonna get there.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:05 — Episode premise: end-of-year reading catch-up.
• 06:27 — Discussion of Flesh by David Zaslay, Booker Prize winner.
• 10:39 — Maggie and desire for shorter reads.
• 14:15 — Cameron Crow and celebrity memoirs.
• 16:05 — Gabrielle Hamilton’s memoir.
• 18:28 — Both interested in Palaver by Bryan Washington.
• 23:11 — “I’m good” books (the ones they’re letting go).
• 23:44 — Cursed Daughters by Oyinkan Braithwaite.
• 24:19 — The emotional weight of One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This.
• 26:43 — The divisiveness of Will There Ever Be Another You?
• 30:41 — Squirrel book delight.
• 31:09 — Giant nonfiction on the TBR: We the People.
• 34:16 — Reluctance to try new Ian McEwan novels.
• 35:45 — Mysteries and comfort reads for the holidays.
• 37:05 — Should Jeff make time for Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid?

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Warm, candid, and humorous—a blend of introspection, regret, and anticipation.
• Light competition and self-deprecating jokes about their jobs and the impossibility of keeping up.

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Conclusion

This episode is a fun, relatable journey through the TBR piles of two veteran book lovers. Jeff and Rebecca capture the unique joys and anxieties of reading at year’s end, offering listeners a glimpse into professional book talk, honest reading confessions, and the unpredictable shifts of literary hype. Packed with recommendations, insights, and laughter, it’s a comforting listen for anyone feeling overwhelmed by all the books still left to read.

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Contact: [e-mail]
Next up: Midnight’s Children for Zero to Well Read (Patreon bonus episode)
Show Notes: bookriot.com/listen

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcer]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

This episode is brought to you by Disney. This Thanksgiving, Judy Hopps and Nick Wilde are back on the big screen. So grab your family and friends as Disney invites you to return to Zootopia for the fur nominal movie event of the holiday season. See all your favorite Zootopia characters, plus new favorites in the most paw esome movie of the year. Don't miss Disney Zootopia 2 when it hits theaters everywhere November 26th. Get your tickets now. This is the Book Riot Podcast. I'm Jeff o'. Neill.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

And I'm Rebecca Shinsky.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And today on the show, there's some 2025 left. Rebecca, it's not over. Even though it accelerates. It's kind of like, you know, when you put the penny in that big swirly thing at like a zoo or an art museum, the closer and closer to the hand, it just goes like this. We're not quite here, but we're definitely mid cyclone. The top is spinning mid cyclone at this point and there's still time for us to get some titles in under our belts because really, this week and next week are the end of the major new releases. Even November 11th, I was doing new releases for the flagship newsletter and I, I didn't struggle, let's. I didn't struggle to leave things off, let's put it that way at this point. But with six weeks left, we want to talk about the books we still would like to get to. This is not a promise. This is not a blood oath. Um, this is just what we still have on our list that we haven't got to. As we get to, you know, six weeks of not new release training, we're getting a lot of the best books of the year list that may be affecting. It certainly affected some mine. Maybe my number one overall draft pick is because of yesterday. To be perfectly honest with you, Rebecca, me too. Do you find yourself outside of the do it for the content exercise we're doing right now, actually doing this kind of thing at the end of the year to look and see what you want to read?

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I tend to do a little mop up, as we've called it on the show in Past years. This year, I picked this episode specifically because this is happening on Booktok. The kids are calling it 10 before the end.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, great.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

The books you want to get to before the end of the year. But yeah, I tend to, like, pay attention to awards season. If there's something that comes up in awards season that I haven't read, I try to get to it and just stuff that I might miss along the way. So, like, most of these are things that I intended to read when they came out and just did not get to. And that just happens in the course of a reading year. There are way too many books. We get an embarrassment of riches every year, even in a year that has been relatively slow. Like, the relatively is the important part there. We didn't have a James this year. There haven't been like a ton of big heavy hitters. Whereas, like, when we look at the start of 2026, we're getting, you know, like George Saunders and Lauren Groff. There's a new Ann Patchett. It's a big murderer's row looking at 2026. But there have been a lot of great books this year and plenty that I have not yet gotten to, especially in this last half of the year. There are things that have stacked up as we've been doing our homework for zero to, well, read. So I won't get to all 10 of these. I will read 10 more books by the end of the year. But we are both pretty averse to having a set prescribed tbr.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So except for a whole new podcast, we spend most of our time doing. Except for that, you mean?

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah, but we picked those and we're stoked about it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay.

[Sponsor Announcer 2]

Okay.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

But these will be the ones that, like, are kind of on the theoretical stack. And then when I'm ready for a new book, I might look and see if any of them, you know, pique my interest at each moment.

[Sponsor Announcer 2]

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[Rebecca Shinsky]

This is the story of the 1. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, he knows keeping the line up.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And running is a top priority.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

That's why he chooses Grainger, because when.

[Jeff O'Neill]

A drive belt gets damaged, Grainger makes.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

It easy to find the exact specs for the replacement product he needs, and next day delivery helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. I realized I have 10, but I didn't really rank mine. Did you rank yours?

[Rebecca Shinsky]

No, but I think we can start with the one that just won the Booker Prize.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. So Michelle this morning asked me what Flesh by David Zaslay was about, and I couldn't remember because we're just saying it just won the Booker Prize and we had been maybe thinking it had a really good chance just based on Buzz and reading the tea leaves. Laura McGrath picked it up for the Fantasy League based on a lot of the same, you know, kind of put your finger to the breeze and see which way it's blowing. And the reason I couldn't remember it is because it has a very generic sounding description, Rebecca. Which is.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

It does.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Young guy goes to the big city and you know, the hoy goes from hoi polloi to the. To the fancy rich people. And not everything goes well.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Things happen to him.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It must be excellent because that is if not the most generic literary fiction story. I don't know what is.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

So I watched the Booker Prize livestream last night.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You were in the. You were in the streams, Rebecca. That was so funny.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I was out in the streets. Yeah, I was watching the live stream so that I could snag the winner for our flagship newsletter and have it ready to go out first thing this morning. And just as a sidebar, the the live chat on the Booker Prize livestream is a microcosm of every Internet space you have ever been in. Like, it started with people being like, this is so great. Can we Just hang out and talk about books all the time. Why don't I do this forever? Here's my favorite. What's your favorite? Go, Susan Choi. And then when the live stream did not start at the stroke, it was 4:30 Eastern, it became, is there something wrong with it? When is it going to start? Why are we listening to jazz? One person did make the. Like, the hold music was jazz. And one person did make the joke that. That. And the winner is the novel Jazz by Toni Morrison. But it was just like, why are we looking at these people eating their dinner? When are they going to start talking? What's happening? And then people came back around to being excited. And I just thought, you know, even among the nicest spaces online, like, I had the whole breadth of human emotions watching that live chat. Because first it was like, yay, book people. And then I thought, oh, my God, if the nerds that come out to watch the Booker live stream can't sit still for an extra two minutes while they get the show started, we are all really in trouble.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes. What was the reaction to the pick in this. In the. In the chat?

[Rebecca Shinsky]

It was a lot of surprise. In the minutes right before it started, folks were sort of, you know, shouting out the ones that they hoped would win. There was a lot of love for Kieran Desai. There was a lot of love for the Land in Winter. I think this one. I did some more reading about Flesh this morning because I was curious last night when in his acceptance speech, David Zelli kept referring to how risky it was. He thanked his editor for taking the risk on the book. And I thought, like, this does not. I mean, the COVID is, you know, provocative, but I thought, I don't know what's so risky about this? And then a woman, I'll have to look up her name. We'll put the link in the show. Notes. Somebody wrote a piece at the Guardian that I came across this morning that explained what's so different about it, and it's that the book stripped. And this is honestly the thing that makes me interested, not just the fact that it won the Booker, it strips away interiority from the stories. Like the thing that we're used to getting just a character's inner life. And instead we meet and understand this character. It's constructed entirely by the observations and reactions that all of the people he interacts with have to him. And, like, he speaks very rarely and we don't get many of his thoughts. And that sounds very curious and hard to pull off. So that makes me like, how did he do this. What is it like? And also explains why Roddy Doyle, who was the Judgin chair this year, said in his introduction like none of us had ever read anything quite like this. So that makes me really interested. That's how like it is. The same story that we've heard a million times. Young man moves to the city, things happen to him. But told in. I think the word that Doyle used was utter singularity of style.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So I'm interested in that. So that one is on the list. Where do you want to go from there? We both have that. Can I guess. Let's see. What. What might I have that you might have? I'm not actually sure. I really don't know. There's some things on my list I know you have read. For example, I really want to get Maggie or whatever the thing is that I call my tumor. That's the title. I got it. I nailed it. By Katie. Katie.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's on my list.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Maggie's great. I think you really will enjoy that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Short and I could use something short.

[Sponsor Announcer 2]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

On my list that I know you've read is Kaplan's Plot by Jason Diamond. Love Chicago. Really excited to see Jason have the success that the book has had. It was one of the finalists for the Barnes and Noble Discover Award this year for best first novel. And I just totally trust that that's going to be a great time. I missed it the week of its release and it's been sitting here waiting for me.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that's one you'll enjoy reading when you're off or you know your brain is off. The year is off towards the end of the year over break or something like that. It's. It's easy to sink into and you're not going to feel yourself straining or sweating as you get through that one. It's pretty cool. Another one. I know you've read this. This is. I hope I get to it. This is a chancey one just because of my schedules filling up and I've got a couple audiobooks in the queue before it which I know I will read and this will I will do on audio. I know you liked it as who is Government by Michael Lewis. I'm looking forward to get to. I think that's one though. And this is easy to over promise to myself that I think even if I don't get to it by the time the bell tolls for 2026, I don't think it's going to age. Like I will go back to Michael Lewis. There's some authors that if I don't catch them in the year, it gives me a little more of a grace period where there are some things. If I don't read Buckeye by Patrick Ryan this year, I don't know that I'm going to. Rebecca. Like, if it gets to be April of next year, I don't think I'm going to read that. Where who is government's always waiting for me. And I have enough of affinity for Michael Lewis that, you know, I may have an audible credit to burn or there's some other reason my kids want to listen to it. I. I don't know. But that's when I think I will get to but I don't know that I'll get to it in 2025.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

But I really hope I totally agree with that assessment. I think it's a lot of things. Michael Lewis is one of our guys. The book is not like necessarily timely because we continue to have a government, at least right now, that doesn't have much respect.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Where is government?

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Right. That too. But the way I I mean, this is also, I think, a relevant kind of mission that he's on for, for any moment. Yeah. And it'll be fun on audio. I think, you know, Lewis is always a worthy read and that's also one that you'll. I believe the moment will come to you. But yeah, it's not as urgent as like the novels that are kind of some of the stories of the year, but that once we get into a new year, we start thinking about other novels that are other stories of the year. Like I've read one of, you know, on my list is some Bright Nowhere by Ann Packer. I hope I get to it. But I have the same feeling about that that like if I miss this Ann Packer, I'll pick up another one in the future. And I'm going to read Ann Patchett's new book next summer. And there are it's not that there are, you know, swappable, but for the kind of books that those are in my reading life, there's only room for so many of them in a given year. And somebody coming out in 2026 will probably replace that one if I don't get to some bright nowhere this year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Did you see that? Oprah just picked that as the next book.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Oh, really? All right, Interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

If that moves the needle anymore, but is notable here. Let's see. Where do. I don't know. I'm trying to feel some logic. I don't think there is one. The uncool Cameron Crow's memoir that's actually up next in my audio. I haven't seen a lot about it. I thought there would be a huge Cameron Crow like podcast interview late night tour. And if that has happened, it has not appeared in my feeds, which I often get served the celebrity interview stuff.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I think they were pretty selective about it. He was on the New York Times interview podcast. Okay, so I, I saw that. I haven't listened to it yet, but I haven't seen him come across like any of the other big. He's probably, he's probably on something on npr. You know, our rivals on the Apple podcast books chart.

[Jeff O'Neill]

NPR's FRESH AIR as we Terry Gross only has all the affinity world in the world in a few decades on us, but we're coming for you, Terry. We're going to get there.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Every time I tell somebody excitedly that zero to well read is number two on the books chart, they go, what's number one? And I'm like, fresh air.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, spicy. Okay, gotta mark that. I gotta come back to that.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Sorry. I don't want to compete with Terry Gross. It's not fair.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Jeff, let's do. While we're in the memoir zone, I've got a couple to tick off here. Joyride by Susan Orlean. I have audio in print in the same vein. Miriam Tov's A Truce that is Not Peace came out August 26th.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I read that. I really.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You did read this, right? It was response to a writing prompt at a literary event, which I'd forgotten. It's a big year for prompts for me since I did the the journal, the alchemy of journaling or whatever that and I just linked to it also Chloe Caldwell, Chloe Caldwell's new memoir that came out in August called Trying to Attempts to Get Pregnant, which again is sort of the divorce memoir of the of the the moment is the fertility memoir. We need more of these and there's been a bunch of them. And I'm still, I'm not quite to the point. I'm with a food memoir where it really needs to be different. I'm still finding these interesting enough and I'm learning enough and there's so many stories to hear there that I'm looking at that. Anything else? Do you have anything on the memoir front that you.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah, I have Next of Kin by Gabrielle Hamilton, the famous chef who wrote Blood, Bones and Butter.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I keep looking at that. Why haven't I picked that up?

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I don't know. I like there wasn't a lot of big press around it, but I have been seeing good things about it and I have tried to avoid knowing what parts of her life she's writing about in it because I just want to go into it cold and have a good Gabrielle Hamilton experience. Blood, Bones and Butter is one of my formative food memoirs.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I think she's just an interesting person, so I think that I probably will get to that one maybe on audio also. Maybe just like on a plane one day when an interesting story by a person I'm kind of familiar with. Sounds good to me.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I'm way off my 10. I'm going deep cuts here or not deep cuts, but I'm going into my deep bench because I also have Girl Warrior by Joy harjo, came out October 7th from Norton. Her coming of age book. Yeah. Native American Ancestors and Lessons and her formative years there. I'm also super interested in. Do you have any relationship to the Australian writer Helen Garner? She's had a bit of a renaissance, as some of the books have come out.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

No, but I've been seeing the renaissance as well. Well, I don't know anything about her or where to start.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I don't. I've read one book and I cannot remember the name of it, and I really liked it. I think. I think Lisa Lucas, when she was at Pantheon, got the ball rolling for bringing her catalog over to the U.S. but this September, the most recent I don't know if it's her most recent book or just the most recent that appear in the US but it's about her becoming a fan of Australian football because her grandson got involved. And as someone who's discovering a sport I didn't know much about because of one of my blood relations becoming interested, I find that parallelism very interesting in another way. For, you know, I'm always looking for a memoir that is orthogonal to my own existence but radically different enough in a way where it's going to feel like an exploration of some kind. I'm trying to think.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I don't think any of mine have any other themes through the rest.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I. I do. I have heard that Zozian Mametz memoir book of essays called does this Make Me Funny? Oh, really is really good. But I. I don't know them ever. That might be in the you know what? Life is short and boy, I wish I could read that. But had I infinite time, I might.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah. I'm looking at Palaver by Brian Washington, which just came out.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I have that on my list too.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Really? And have my fingers crossed maybe See him win some awards later, even though that would mean points for Sharifa in the fantasy league.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Man, we're so petty. It's infecting our life. Imagine if we had money on this. I keep seeing these NBA stories about how do these people get involved in these schemes. And we're getting out the knives out for our friends before a no stakes game. So I can.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

And there are betting markets for everything now except books.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So like just the Nobel, right? I mean, really, that's the only one that you bet on?

[Rebecca Shinsky]

So looking forward to palaver. One of the ones I missed earlier in the year that I've really got to get back to is the Buffalo Hunter Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, that is me is with the Cosby. It's too violent for me, I think. I don't think I'm gonna get.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah, I've actually not read him. And so I think. I think that really my psychic hesitation is, is this the right book to be my first Stephen Graham Jones or should I go back to some other Stephen Graham Jones?

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's a good question.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

They're all popular and well reviewed and so probably the answer is any Stephen Graham Jones is a good first Stephen Graham Jones. But. But I have this sometimes with some authors where like, I want to get in at the right place. Some. Some people I'll just jump in. But I think the aura around Stephen Graham Jones has grown to where like I want to. I want to appreciate it. I want to understand what the hype is and. And to see the substance there that folks really seem to love and what sets him apart from other horror writers. So if you have thoughts about this, you could email [e-mail] and tell me if I should start with the Buffalo Hunter Hunter or some somewhere else in his oeuvre.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This book came out just last week. Week ago today. Black Owned the Revolutionary Life of the Black Bookstore by Char Adams.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Right up your alley.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right up my alley. I kind of missed the boat on having some literary. Some first edition or something else. But hopefully life is long and I can get around to that at some point. The Tim Berners Lee book I'm interested in. I do not remember the name of it. I just wrote in my notes the Tim Berners Lee book. For those of you who do not know.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

It's like something for everybody. Yeah, something for everyone.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Tim Berners Lee invented the hyperlink, which feels like inventing windows or something. Like, well, how did you do, like the actual windows in our house? Like someone who had to invent that and yes, they did. This idea that you could link a bit of text and the link would be sort of hidden behind the click action is amazing. And sometimes I think about science and engineering as eventually someone would have figured that out versus something like art where, you know, Ulysses is not inevitable that someone is going to put together, whereas, you know, the laws of thermodynamics. We probably were going to get there eventually because, you know, know of the way that science is put together. And if I'm wrong, I'd love to know that. Write a book about that. In the hyperlink, I've often thought about would we have eventually gotten there or not. And it's kind of an interesting education, but really interesting guy who's had long experience, has seen a lot of the Internet as we know it. And I'd like to get his take because my own relationship to the Internet right now is. Listen, we're seeing a counselor. Neither of us have a lot of hope, but we're going through the motions. But you know what with the right. With the right day and maybe with a little of emotional shoulder putting into it.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

If you could remember why you fell in love in the first place.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, that's right. And it's been a long time and so much has happened and some things you can't take back. Internet and you've done so much.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

This is like a great postmodern novella that I want to read. Yes, man goes to therapy with the Internet.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, her, but for web. Text based web.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah. The Tim Berners Lee book is called this is for Everyone.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This is for Everyone.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I just looked it up.

[Jeff O'Neill]

1 I do not think I'm gonna get to. It's in the same vein every screen on the planet. The War Over. Tick Tock by Emily Baker White. If I have any chance of salvaging the relationship with me in the Internet, I cannot read these Tick Tock Tick tocks about how these things have happened.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah, Careless People was great and was like my fourth book about how bad Facebook is. And I think, I think at this point that like I'm reading the reporting and experiencing how bad it is for myself out there on the Internet that like I'm out on those unless or until there is something pretty new and then I'm probably just going to be mad about. Why did you save this for a book instead of reporting it to the world three years ago?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, because as you know, as you've learned, reporting the truth into the open Internet really drives change right now. Like things happen if you tell the truth about something terrible someone has done. So.

[Sponsor Announcer 2]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Anyway, I have a bucket, and I'm not sure if it's for this show or the bonus, but I'll float the idea here. I have a category of books that I'm nominally interested in. But you know what? I think I'm good. And I have Careless people.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

We got time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Careless. I think I'm good with careless people. I've heard you talk about. I've read the things I'm not like, on the fence about Facebook. So I think I'm good on that. I think on the Elizabeth Gilbert book, I think I'm good.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I've seen enough.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

As much as I would love to receive your texts while you read the Elizabeth Gilbert book, I don't want you to go through that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So those have fallen into the I'm good. Those are my two nominees.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I'll have to think what else is on my I'm good list. On my books I really do want to get to by the end of the year. Cursed Daughters by Oyink and Braithwaite.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's on mine too. Just out.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Just. Yeah, it's fresh out. I didn't get to it before it came out, but I loved my Sister the Serial Killer, which I was also late to. I think I read that in an end of year cleanup.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Wow. Yeah, good.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Not my typical genre, but it was really funny. And I pay attention when the mystery thriller, people are like, no, this one is special. So I have my eye on that one. One that I've been avoiding all year because I know it's important, but also it's going to be really difficult. And I'm already on board with the argument is one day everyone will have always been against this. By Omar El Akkad.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's a good one.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I want to give him the book sale. I feel like I should read the book. I also am not sure what I'm going to get from it that I haven't gotten from existing as a person in the world, watching all of that UN in Gaza for the last two years. So it's on the list, but we'll see. We'll see how strong I am. Come. You know, like December 5th.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Let's see. Heart the Lover by Lily King, which I know you really enjoyed. You will really up on the list. Did we mention the Desai already? More than just in Paris.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

No, we didn't. Is that on your list? The Lonely Sunny.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Is it on my list? Or am I just saying books that I'd like to read? Rebecca, it's a really good question, and I will have to plead the fifth on that.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

If it were not 688 pages, probably you would get to it faster.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Here's the one I'm surprisingly. I'm surprisingly worried about.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I think it falls into the Michael Lewis, the. The author, transcend the timeliness of the year. But your own reaction to Patricia Lockwood's Will there ever be another you? The wider critical discourse. It has not been. It's not a must read for award season stuff to this point. So I don't know if I'm going to get to it this year. And I think. I think I will get to it eventually, but I don't. Picking up a novel later is somehow different for me than picking up nonfiction a lot later. And I don't know why that is, but it is as true for me.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I do think that you would appreciate it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I believe that. Yeah.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah. But maybe more as an exercise than as a. I mean, like, it's Lockwood.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So I know, but. But when I've got 10 days or 10 weeks or 10 books, I need a little bit more than. It'll be interesting as an exercise.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Right. I totally understand that. And like, if I run it back, like, I read it because it's Lockwood and I'm, you know, I'm in for her. But if I could, like, tell my past self what I know now and, like, am I glad that I read that instead of something else that came out that week? I don't know. I did see it made Kirkus's list of the best fict of the year, so I was glad to see it get some recognition. But yeah, it's. Divisive is not the right word because it's not like an argumentative book that's trying to divide people, but people are just having, you know, divided responses to it. You either really like the flavor or you don't. It's more Lockwoody than other Lockwoods. And that's saying something because she is potent.

[Jeff O'Neill]

If I carve this up by like, okay, I might read well with Jerda. Well read. I probably won't read 10 outside of that, but maybe. Let's just say maybe. But probably the more accurate thing is how many pages am I going to read between now at the end of the year? Let's say I read ten 300 page books. That gives me 3,000 pages. Now, if I think of it in those terms, my money ball would probably include that because it's short and it would probably Guardian Thief, which I have on my list as well because it's quite short. Maybe that would argue against a Kirin decide which is super long on that in that way. And the Wayfinder by Adam Johnson, which.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Is also also super long. Yeah. And you know like people love Kieran Desai as I as we've noted several times in the last few months, we underestimated how excited readers were to see.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Which tells you more about us than them I think is maybe come back.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I also think most like most readers aren't reading well we know they're not reading like at the same pace and for the same purposes that we're reading. And if my reading we're just self directed around what's going to be a big juicy novel I can sink into a 688 page book that deals with friendship like sign me up.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah right. That's right.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

My future self might read it on a beach somewhere. The Eleventh Hour by Salman Rushdie. Especially coming off of we both just finished Midnight's Children to read for zero to well read being reminded on a regular basis of how good he is.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Underrated. Question mark.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Maybe him and Barbara Kingsol.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

He can join Kingsolver, but his short story is about like people in the 11th hour of life in our I did a video for book Riot's Instagram about my 10 before the end and this was also like the lists are a little bit different because it's been a few days so I've changed things. But old men waiting to die. Like come on.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Terrific stuff.

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[Jeff O'Neill]

Let's see now. There's there's books you read and you don't talk about and the Jeff.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

The Jeff corner are there when you're a book podcast.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, I mean, that I wouldn't talk about though. I have found in my real life some fellow travelers, some they will read a weird nonfiction book that I don't think anyone else would be interested in. And so I've really got my eye on. It's been out for a couple months now. It's called Squirrel Colon How a Backyard Forager Shapes Our World by Nancy Castellato. Derives delves ecological importance of the rodents, food storage strategies, 19th century conservation campaigns and a threat posed by climate change to endangered squirrel species. You know what? What? I will listen to this. And I don't know what that says about me. I don't know it says about Nancy here. I don't know what it says about squirrels. But whatever the, the amalgam, the tincture, the potion that goes into one of these books for me. Squirrel How a Backyard Forger Shapes Our World. Does it. I'm in sourceled. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna get there.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

In squirrels. Squirrel.

[Jeff O'Neill]

In squirrel.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

It doesn't work. In squirrel. I'm just so thrilled for you that that exists.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I hope it's not really long. I didn't really look at the page count for that one because it's audiobook, but I hope it's not a billion years long.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

The last on my list going in. I'm not sure if you've read this is Sola by Allegra Goodman. Did you?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I have not. I have not. And I. I looked at it and kind of moved on by and I don't know why. For. For this list.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah. And folks who read it really loved it, but I just missed it it. I also really have good intentions to read we the People by Jill Lepore. But it is a huge book about the Constitution and I think that I might end up saving it for next year like going into America's 250th anniversary in the summer. So we'll see. It's gonna sit. It is sitting on my coffee table and it will stay there as a guilt reminder. But I have intentions for Joe Lepore.

[Jeff O'Neill]

One I have intent. This is similar to me. It's. It's 416 pages but I'll do it on in audio which means it's going to be quite long. I think this will pass the. It doesn't matter what year came out. I'll eventually get to this. But it's the History of Money A Story of humanity by David McWilliams and as a forward by Michael Lewis. But it goes Away all the way back to ancient Babylon and. And talks about, you know, various currencies and monetary policy and how it shaped everything. So this is like, not just planet money, but, like, timeline money of some way. And I will get to that eventually. I just don't think it's going to be. It may not be this year. Did you look at the. Have you looked at the Bourdain Reader at all, by the way? Speaking of something I might just buy to have, but I don't know that I'm going to actually read it.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I've looked at it, but I think I've read almost everything he's ever published. So if I bought it, it. It would be mostly just to have some. Have it on my bookshelf. But I'm glad that it's out there in the world.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Let me throw a couple other that. Oh, have you exhausted your list? I was gonna, like, get some judges ruling or spot.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Oh, yeah. I mean, now I'm looking back at, like, things I had made notes of earlier in the year. I meant to get to Is a River Alive by Robert McFarlane.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Because Keith over at Powell's like, sold me hard on that. And then I kind of, you know, I didn't strike why the river was running and missed it.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah, same. And my friend Megan Mayhew Bergman, who's a writer and conservation journalist and all sorts of things, presented an award to him for an organization that she's a part of and, like, gushed about the speech that he gave and the way that he approaches the book. And I've just been meaning to get to it, but I haven't gotten there yet.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You know, I see more mentions of Mona's Eyes and I don't. I don't know what's happening to me.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I find Europa Editions has sent me four copies.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Is that right?

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Wow. Europa. Little thirsty for you there. Like, at what point does it come back around? Like, okay, one is intriguing. Is two is like, oh, they really want. Or you're like, come on, guys. By like seven or eight. Are you, like, I have to read this just to stop this.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

They all got excited about it, making that Barnes and Noble list and multiple publicists. I must be on multiple lists. But every time, like, when I opened the fourth one yesterday, I was like, this is funny now.

[Jeff O'Neill]

George Packer's the Emergency, which just came out, I've heard lots of good things about. I also have Ian McEwen's new book, and I don't have the title because I can't Remember, which got wonderful.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Used a Return to form was bandied about. So I'm interested in that too.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I saw people say it was his first good novel since Atonement and I think I got burned by a couple of the not so good ones after Atonement, so. So I'm gonna need to hear a really compelling pitch to get back in on McEwan.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. So that's interesting. I'm kind of almost out here. Rebecca.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I usually read Megan Abbott when she comes out. I missed El Dorado Drive this year. I also haven't gotten to Vera or Faith by Gary Steingart.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I think it may be your Lockwood in which I was like. It's, you know, I like like Gary and I like that book. But you can even see my head sort of bobbing side to side of like, you know, it's not necessary. But you won't have a bad time. Yeah, I think that's it. I will get to Red Loaves and Bread and I's the third book in Travis the New Baldry Legends and Lattes that very well be like Christmas Day night by the. By the. With the candles and the tree up and nowhere to be. In fact, now that I say that I'm absolutely making it happen and everyone knows well be that night. So be careful out there. Sherry Thomas is the librarians. Four Texas librarians each hiding assorted past must band together, solve a crime. I often get into mystery thriller in the wintertime like many people do. So I have a little mini list of things going on there.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Oh, Annie Hartnett's the Road to Tender Hearts is my last one. Yeah. I've just been kind of looking at it and I didn't feel urgency around it when it came out. But it warm and lovely is where I want to be on December 27th. So.

[Jeff O'Neill]

When I was in the middle of Slow Horses, I've been told by the folks at NORTON that David McCluskey is a wonderful spy novel writer and he has a new book called out called the Persian. And I think you can just jump in anywhere. I think if I like the last. I like the last season of Slow Horses fine. I think I was a little more on a high and I need a little bit more of that dopamine hit. I would have jumped right into the. The McCloskey. But I will read a David McCloskey at some point there. Yeah, I think that kind of covers it. Oh, you know what we're out on. I got. Does that qualify as is the next is the bonus episode for Patreon, the books were not. Is that a sadness? Is that an elegy? Or is it sort of like, you know, I'm burning your picture and I'm throwing out of the things you left at my house.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

It's. We've done it all kinds of ways in the past. It's just the ones we missed this year. So it can be. I meant to get to this, and I just didn't get to. It can also be like, we didn't see this one coming and it turned out to be huge. But it can. It can be you're totally out and you want to. Or you can tell us now. Just how big of an audience do you want for the picture burning?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'll save it. I need a little juice there. I've got. I'm going to end here for you and the rest of the listeners because I need a judge's ruling about this. Should I make time for Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid this year? Is that. I mean, we were looking at books of the year Read. I have read some. I like space. I like ladies. It seems like this is good, but I'm also not feeling a gravitational pull toward it. I don't know. Atmosphere. Jenkins, Reed.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

You guys going to the beach soon? No.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No. I was just in San Diego and maybe that's what I should have. We didn't do a lot of just sit around in beach time, so I'm not sure.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Are you getting on any more planes for the rest?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I am getting on a plane. I am getting on.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah, read it on a plane.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

I do think you'll enjoy it. It's a good.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think I will, too, but I enjoy a lot of things. What about my squirrel book? If that comes down to that, or my squirrel book. Rebecca, what are we gonna do?

[Rebecca Shinsky]

That's between you and your God.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's gonna drive me nuts. Anyway, that's our show. Book riot.com. listen for show notes. You can email us book podcast, book.com and Rebecca Spoiled it. I didn't know. We're gonna do. We're gonna say that we're doing Midnight's Children for zero to well read. But you know what? If you're listening to the show, thank you so much. And we can give you. It's not. It's not.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

It's in a couple weeks. It'll air in a. Yeah, it'll air.

[Jeff O'Neill]

In a few weeks. Next in the feed, I'm a little. I'm editing out of order and things are.

[Rebecca Shinsky]

Yeah. I don't know what day or week it is at all now ever. Because of how we're reading for that.

[Sponsor Announcer 2]

Yes. True.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's true. Thanks, everybody. And Rebecca, we'll talk to you later.