The It Books of June 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: Book Riot - The Podcast Episode: The It Books of June 2025
Release Date: May 28, 2025
Hosts: Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Schinsky

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Introduction to the IT Books of June 2025

In this episode, Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Schinsky delve into the highly anticipated books releasing in June 2025. Dubbed the "IT Books," this segment highlights ten standout titles selected from thousands of publications, aiming to identify the most compelling reads for the month. The hosts employ a knockout round style to narrow down the contenders, discussing each book's potential impact, literary merit, and buzz within the reading community.

Book Discussions and Analysis

1. King of Ashes by S.A. Cosby

Timestamp: [07:13]

Jeff introduces "King of Ashes," praising its rising popularity and upcoming adaptation by Obama's production company. Rebecca describes it as Cosby's grittiest and most violent crime novel to date, highlighting its complex characters and potential as the start of a series.

Jeff O’Neill ([07:56]): "It really is the most violent and the most like the grittiest and most straightforward crime novel of Cosby's so far."

2. The Girls Who Grew Big by Layla Motley

Timestamp: [10:07]

Lauren Motley's sophomore novel explores the lives of teenage mothers in Padu Beach, Florida. Rebecca appreciates its ambitious portrayal of young women navigating motherhood and building community, noting its potential for book club discussions despite its challenging subject matter.

Rebecca Schinsky ([10:27]): "It has some cool elements about young women who have kids and are trying to make their way in the world and finding community."

3. Flashlight by Susan Choi

Timestamp: [14:05]

Susan Choi's "Flashlight" is a literary mystery set in Japan during the 1970s, revolving around a father’s disappearance. Jeff acknowledges its length and complex narrative, while Rebecca argues for its stronger candidacy due to Choi's established reputation and critical acclaim.

Jeff O’Neill ([14:07]): "It's quite, quite long. It could have been 70 or 80 pages shorter and I don't think it would have been worse for the wear."

4. Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil by V.E. Schwab

Timestamp: [18:06]

V.E. Schwab’s latest work intertwines the lives of three women vampires across different historical periods. Rebecca finds the narrative engaging and notes its seamless blend of speculative fiction with deep character development, while Jeff remarks on Schwab's ability to maintain reader interest despite being non-romantasy.

Rebecca Schinsky ([19:22]): "Each of them are women who are attracted to other women, and it explores their lives in different historical contexts."

5. Great Black Hope by Rob Franklin

Timestamp: [24:48]

Rob Franklin's debut novel tackles themes of race and class in modern America through the story of Smith, a queer black Stanford graduate entangled in the court system. Jeff and Rebecca discuss its bold exploration of societal issues, though they express skepticism about its commercial viability compared to more established titles.

Jeff O’Neill ([26:03]): "This would be like this year's Martyr, which although I think Martyr really benefited from coming out in January."

6. The Dry Season by Melissa Febos

Timestamp: [27:10]

Melissa Febos’s memoir chronicles a year of celibacy as she reevaluates her relationships and personal patterns. The hosts praise its introspective depth and literary quality, recognizing its potential for critical acclaim despite likely limited mainstream appeal.

Rebecca Schinsky ([28:33]): "She's a hell of a writer. Like their literary references. There's a lot of really personal, intricate stuff that she's unearthing."

7. How to Dodge a Cannonball by Denard Dale

Timestamp: [29:08]

Denard Dale's debut novel is a satirical take on race set during the Civil War, drawing comparisons to authors like Colson Whitehead. Jeff anticipates its humorous yet poignant examination of historical and racial themes, eager to see how it resonates with audiences.

Jeff O’Neill ([30:52]): "It's going to have a biting, funny, satirical bite to it at the same time."

8. Homework by Jeff Dyer

Timestamp: [31:07]

"Homework" is a memoir by Jeff Dyer, reflecting on his upbringing in working-class England and his journey into the literary world. The hosts express mixed feelings, appreciating the narrative yet questioning its commercial appeal against more dynamic contenders.

Jeff O’Neill ([32:10]): "He is an English person who's written wonderfully just for his whole life in sort of the top tier magazines and newspapers."

9. Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid

Timestamp: [32:41]

Taylor Jenkins Reid's "Atmosphere" continues her streak of bestsellers, focusing on a woman in the space industry. Jeff and Rebecca debate its standing against genre-heavy books, ultimately favoring Reid for her strong book club presence and widespread appeal.

Rebecca Schinsky ([41:36]): "I think I'm going to give the edge to Taylor Jenkins Reid because it seems to me more likely for her to get a big book club pick."

10. Tony at Random by Dana A. Williams

Timestamp: [43:01]

Dana A. Williams' "Tony at Random" is a significant biographical work on Toni Morrison's tenure at Random House. The hosts highlight its historical importance and potential for critical acclaim, discussing its in-depth portrayal of Morrison’s influence in the literary world.

Rebecca Schinsky ([46:35]): "This feels like a Pulitzer biography finalist."

Selection Process and Final Decision

After thorough discussions, Jeff and Rebecca evaluate each book's strengths, marketability, and potential for awards or adaptations. They consider factors such as established author reputation, thematic depth, and reader engagement.

Final Decision:
Rebecca and Jeff ultimately advance Taylor Jenkins Reid's "Atmosphere" as the IT Book of June 2025, citing its broad appeal, strong book club potential, and the author's consistent success in capturing readers' attention.

Rebecca Schinsky ([41:07]): "I am going to give the edge to Taylor Jenkins Reid because it seems to me more likely for her to get a big book club pick and that kind of real escape velocity than for V.E. Schwab."

Additional Highlights

• Upcoming Content: The hosts tease future episodes, including in-depth discussions on "Flashlight" by Susan Choi and an interview with Spotify Audiobooks.
• Patreon Exclusives: They mention upcoming Patreon-exclusive content, such as special episodes and first editions releases.
• Listener Engagement: Jeff and Rebecca encourage listeners to submit their favorite June reads and participate in their selection process.

Conclusion

Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Schinsky provide an insightful and engaging exploration of June 2025's most anticipated books. Through detailed discussions and thoughtful considerations, they successfully highlight "Atmosphere" by Taylor Jenkins Reid as the standout title, promising an enriching reading experience for Book Riot’s diverse audience.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jeff O’Neill ([07:56]): "It really is the most violent and the most like the grittiest and most straightforward crime novel of Cosby's so far."
• Rebecca Schinsky ([10:27]): "It has some cool elements about young women who have kids and are trying to make their way in the world and finding community."
• Rebecca Schinsky ([46:35]): "This feels like a Pulitzer biography finalist."
• Rebecca Schinsky ([41:07]): "I am going to give the edge to Taylor Jenkins Reid because it seems to me more likely for her to get a big book club pick."

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For More Information:
Visit Book Riot’s website to listen to the full episode and explore additional content, including interviews and exclusive podcast episodes available to Patreon supporters.

Transcript

[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Sharif]

This episode is brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay. That Miu Miu red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona cowboy top or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion ebay Things People love.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This is the Book Riot Podcast. I'm Jeff o' Neill.

[Sharif]

And I'm Rebecca Schinsky and it's time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

For the IT books of June 2025, one of the After September I think the biggest month of the year.

[Sharif]

Generally speaking, a lot of books coming.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Out this month and unlike in the movie business, we do get well really throughout the year award season fodder. And I think for June you do get commercial upmarket literary is coming out of the woodwork. Like you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a commercial literary book that has maybe some year end potential. I don't know. So when you swing a dead cat, Rebecca, do you two hands? Like do you swing it around your head or do you kind of do like the Pamchenko from the Cutting Edge?

[Sharif]

Oh, are we we're talking lassos or baseball bats I think is the question.

[Jeff O'Neill]

When you swing a dead cat, I.

[Sharif]

Would be inclined to go lassos right over your head.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It just feels like a lot can go wrong.

[Sharif]

I'd like momentum though. I like the momentum.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I'd have to take some Dramamine to do the full baseball bat.

[Sharif]

Anyway, to be the cat you'd have to take the Dramamine.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I really should just have an IV drip at all times of Dramamine. So we got 10 books. If this is your first time, welcome. I have culled from the literal thousands of books that we published in June.

[Sharif]

When you say it that way, it does sound bananas.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I was thinking about it because I was working on this over the week and then going through Edelweiss and a bunch of places like how many books again I'm using consider very loosely here but that my eyes pass over I guess is the most accurate I bet it's a couple thousand it has to be it has to be a couple thousand from though I've I've selected 10 contenders and then we will go one by one knockout round style to determine what we think the it book of the month will be IT book being a nebulous definition of our own design serving only our needs for entertainment and ethical purposes combination of a sort of threshold and number of people are gonna need to read this library whatever we have to find doing something relatively interesting.

[Sharif]

It has to be good it has.

[Jeff O'Neill]

To be good or we think it could be very good it will have some buzz and then the pixie dust award stuff at the end I did not do this month there's not as many this month as there were in May of we have an Rst and le place we call it the Stephen King throne for books by authors who are perennial bestsellers but a new one of their books sells a lot of copies it could out that book could outsell all of the books on this my list combined and yet we're not.

[Sharif]

That interested in these titles are events for their fans but they aren't like capital L literary events the Dick Wolf.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Book prize that he the creator of Law and Order and I put them in order I did do a little massaging here because we've got a couple of titans that if we had them 1, 2 and 3. I'm not sure the rest of the conversation would be that interesting but I will lead off with a sponsor.

[Dana A. Williams]

Today's episode is brought to you by Sourcebooks Casablanca publishers of Drop Dead by Lily Chu. When obituary writer Nadine Barbolt learns that famous author Dot Voleen has died she runs her obituary only to discover that Dot is alive. A mistake that delights rival journalist Wesley Chin. The renewed interest in Dot surfaces chatter about a mysterious past scandal and Dot makes Nadine and Wes an offer. Work together and she'll share everything. But she dies for real this time before she can tell them the story. So to solve the mystery Wes and Nadine are given access to Dot's mansion for three weeks three weeks to learn there could be something more between them than rivalry. Well we we love a mystery. We love a romance. We love a genre blend and that is exactly what this is with these two rival journalists. So make sure to check out Drop Dead by Lily Chu and thanks again to Sourcebooks Casablanca for sponsoring this episod.

[Sharif]

Foreign.

[Dana A. Williams]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

But I will really lead off with a book you and I were just talking about on the Patreon episode. Check out the Patreon link in the show notes book riot.com listen of S.A. cosby's new one, King of Ashes. And we come to one Sean aka Cosby, at a moment of great import for his career because this book is getting a big push. His other books have done well. He's had enough out There where people in this space and the wider world know his name a little bit. And a big bestseller that is going to be adapted by Obama's production company is in the offing. You have read this, so you know more about it than I do right now. It will automatically make it through the second round. Cause it's first. But let's spend a moment on what you thought of King of Ashes and then it's it book bonafides.

[Sharif]

Yeah, I don't read a whole lot of like suspense. I always struggle with Cosby to figure out what even to call the genre. It's more. It's not a mystery. There's some thriller elements, there's some suspense.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They're crime books really.

[Sharif]

Yeah, they really are crime books. And I think weird, kind of really gritty. This one certainly is crime book. Like there are, there are some mystery ish elements to some of his previous. But this one is about a guy who is like a kind of financial fat cat. He's left the small town he grew up in in Virginia. He's rolling a high roller in Atlanta, has really fancy clients, but gets a call from his sister that their dad, something has happened to their dad and he's in the hospital and main guy needs to go back home and help care for dad and sort some things out. One of the things that he's got to sort out is that their brother is in trouble with a local gang and maybe that's connected to the thing that happened to their dad.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Sharif]

And so our main guy, who is our money man is maybe going to use his skills to try to make some money for somebody to get his brother out of this situation with the local gangsters. But also the family's business is a crematorium that the title King of Ashes refers to one of the ways that their father thought of himself as, you know, kind of the local leader of funeral businesses. But a crematorium can be convenient if you are in the business of sometimes having bodies to get rid of for less than savory reasons. This was definitely, I thought like the most violent and the most like the grittiest and most straightforward crime novel of Cosby's so far. Which was just a surprise to me. Like once I got my head around this is what we're doing here, I was like, okay, like this is bloody and I'm into it. Here we go. Very adaptable and feels to me also like could be the beginning, beginning of a series. There's. There are some like characters that you might want to pick up on and follow them into the future. But it felt to me like Cosby having a moment with himself of like, all right, we're leveling up. We're going to do a new thing now. And it does feel more in the like Elmore Leonard really gritty crime fiction mode.

[Jeff O'Neill]

All right, it's going to automatically advance. Up next, sophomore novel from Layla Motley. Her first book was called Nightcrawling, came out a couple years ago, three years ago now, which I read and admired a great deal. It's hard to say a book you like about a runaway sex worker. I mean it's tough. It's a tough.

[Sharif]

Admired is a good word.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Admired. It was excellent. It was Oprah book pick. It was New York Times bestseller. This is her new book. The setup here is.

[Sharif]

What's it called?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm sorry. It's called the Girls who Grew Big by Leila Motley. And the main character is 16 year olds and pregnant and her parents send her off to her grandparents house in Florida to I guess be, I haven't read the book, I should say. And she meets someone else there who has just had a newborn and is also in high school and is trying to graduate. And then she meets someone else who has young kids and is very young. So it's about this group of very young mothers in a working class neighborhood, I guess. Padu Beach, Florida. I don't know anything about it. And them trying to make it and becoming friends and dealing with being moms and children and women and girls and I don't know, it sounds pretty cool. I think there's this cool again. Again, you have to use these words differently when you're talking about subject matter like this. But it sounds ambitious. I haven't heard of a book quite like this before about like teen moms, but not, not like salacious, spectacular and salacious. This is like there are a lot of young women who have kids and are trying to make their way in the world and what does that experience actually look like? And how do they find community and comfort in conflict as they try to do that all together? So interesting. I think this has this could be again sophomore novel. The subject matter is more difficult than a real commercial novel in terms of like, oh, you got to read this book because it's uplifting or even it's going to be difficult. I'd imagine having read Night Crawling, not going to pull any. No punches shall be pulled in a Laylee Motley book. But award season times Barack Obama list time. Oprah again. You can see, you know if someone wanted to get really interested in an adaptation of a short series, you could see all kinds of things or a movie, you could see it happening. So I put it here a writer to watch for me. But that's the Girls who Grid Grew Big by Leila Motley.

[Sharif]

This is kind of unexpectedly tricky, I think because Cosby has had some notable success. Motley had different kinds of notable success. But in both of those cases the thing you should expect for their next book would be for it to not do as well as their past books. So putting them up against each other, the Cosby is I think way too violent for like Read With Jenna is not going to pick this book. And it feels the subject matter feels more like it's angled at a a stereotypically male reader to me than his past books have. Which is also a knock on something for the big book club picks, maybe like some of the crime awards nominations. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets into New York Times 100 Best of the Year. I think some of his past titles have. But it sounds to me like the Girls who Grow Big could get book clubbiness and maybe award mentions even if it's not as big of a seller because it's harder to recommend based on the subject matter. I don't know. I think I'm going to give a little edge to Girls who Grew Big.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that's an interesting pick.

[Sharif]

I think knowing that at this point, like neither of them is probably going to make it all the way since.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The Adaptation A doesn't already exist and will not come out this year. For King of Ashes, there's a world in which let's say this people like this book. It does well. The adaptation is well regarded a couple of years and there's a follow on book with the characters from that. Then we have a different conversation.

[Sharif]

I think so yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This one has all the marks of a knit. Book of the Month It's Susan Choi's new novel Flashlight coming out from FSG June 3rd. So very quickly here. Her previous novel Trust Exercise won a little award called the National Book Award. She also has other novels that I frankly have not read. I think I read My Education. She's won major awards and this book is a literary mystery in which a father disappears on the beach while walking his daughter along the shoreline in Japan in the 70s. She's 10. And then we follow the characters in that family and around that family for the next few decades set against the backdrop of people moving in and around Japan, South Korea and the United States and immigrating and making lives and then going back and being conflicted about where you are and who you are, which I know more about because between Han Kang and Pachinko, I feel like I my South Korea and Korea Japan relationship is on point right now, whereas six years ago I couldn't have told you anything about the relationship of Korea and Japan. 250,000 Print Run NBA Upmarket this is literary fiction, but with a mystery behind it, a name a lot of people who shop at independent bookstores know. And that's not a pejorative like that's oh yeah, yeah. As we talk about this. I have read this. I interviewed her for first edition. Let me say the pros and cons for it book discussion here. 1464 pages. It's quite, quite long. It is not as comforting satisfying as a reading experience of like that like an Ann Napolitano or some of these other kinds of books that do that. Not that all these book clubs are going to pick that. Not that it's necessary. It's also not a straight ahead mystery like we want to know what happened to the dad and that is an issue. But the point of the book is not figuring out what happened to the dad. The point of the book is what happens to these other characters who are you have experienced this great and strange loss, but then also a part of this larger post, you know, war, during the war, emigration, cross back and forth and in betwixt, in between and the relationship. So I think it's a little bit hard of a sell. I will say from my own reading experience, I think it could have been 70 or 80 pages shorter and I don't think it would have been worse for the wear. I'm not an editor, but my own reading experience was some of it was slower to get through than I think. I don't know if it needed to be. But for an IT book contender, a little more on rails would have been probably a strength. I ultimately ended up liking the book, but it's not as much of a home run as I thought it might be when I was reading the brief on IT coming into June. Literary mystery, family stuff. Susan Choi, Trust Exercise. So that's where I am.

[Sharif]

REBECCA well, so this is also an interesting head to head because now like I believe, Trust Exercise was picked for one of the big book clubs when it came out. It did win the National Book Award. It's going up against Girls who Grew Big, which was you know, her previous book was picked. Choi can be controversial, but that seems to work in her favor like people either at least with trust exercise, there are people who really loved it and there were people who really didn't. But even the people who really didn't seem to admire or appreciate something about it. It wasn't just like, oh, I straight up hated this. And I feel like all of that conversation helps to publicize a book, which is the hardest thing in the game. I'm going to give the edge to Susan Choi here. I think we're going to run with Flashlight. Even though it's long, that can be difficult. But also both of these books have difficult subject matter that makes them hard to talk about. And I think name recognition will serve Choi in here in our non existent competition.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Up next, 500,000 print run and they are all signed. All first editions are signed by one VE Schwab. Probably that's why she used her initials. Just fewer characters to get in there. That saved her right there. That saved her 3 billion characters.

[Sharif]

I was so surprised when I requested one from the publisher and they sent it to me and I got a signed copy and I was like, you know what?

[Jeff O'Neill]

If you can find one that isn't signed, it's worth more at point this, this point, someone has an unsigned one of these knocking around at tour somewhere. Maybe Eileen can help us out. So V E Schwab, I guess the Invisible Life of Addie Larue, the Darker Shades of Magic, has become a star in the firmament of science fiction and fantasy and especially kind of a one of one in this space Right now. She's not writing romantasy. This is among the BR audience, which tends to be eclectic. Readers will kind of give anything a try. This and the New Kwong, I think are probably at the center of the Venn diagram of people working in genre, people working in speculative, but also trying some other stuff out. Not afraid of a political issue. It's been a while since I read Gallant, which was her last book, which I think was a YA situation, which I liked quite a quite a bit. You have read this. This one, Our friend and coworker Danica described it as Toxic Lesbian vampires. And that was enough for both of us without giving up too much away. What can you say about your reading experience? And it's Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil by V E Schwab's it book Candidacy.

[Sharif]

I mean, this is a big book too. It's like 544,550, something like that. It's about three women who become vampires at different points in history. One is in the 1500s, one is in the 1700s, one is in the 1900s or 2000s. And how. How are they connected? We don't find out for several hundred pages, like, you know, that they're. That the threads are all going to come together. But Schwab is teasing out what those connections are. All of them are women who are attracted to other women. And this is variable levels of acceptable in the different timelines that these women live in. So for some of them, you know, becoming a vampire and living outside society in the ways that they. That vampires live outside society gives them freedom to do the kinds of things that they can't do if they, I don't know, have to, like, be presented to the ton in the Regency ball situation. It for being as long as it is. I thought it really moved. Like, I was trying to read it before this upcoming pto and I sat down one afternoon and like, was like, oh, that was 200 pages down that I didn't expect to, like, take down in one go. This is my first time reading VE Schwab, so I also don't have any sense of, like, how it compares to anything else.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'd say that tracks with my Schwab reading experience of the larger books. Yeah, yeah.

[Sharif]

Goes down easy. The big question that I had was like, that it is not romantasy. There is. There are some, like, allusions to sex, but the sex is basically closed door. And I wondered if that. How that's gonna work for her in a moment where a lot of readers are drawn to the romantasy thing of fantasy elements and then really explicit sex scenes. And maybe it's also gonna work for her in the way of, like, there are people who want this kind of story and don't the X rate and stuff. I don't know. It didn't bother me. I wasn't like, why is it not more explicit here? But I just noticed that's.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's going to be my note. I'm pretty sure. Why isn't this sexier?

[Sharif]

Why, Jeff o' Neill? Why is there not more explicit doing it?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Where is it?

[Sharif]

Where is the.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Where is the doing it?

[Sharif]

I enjoyed it. I don't want to say, like, anything else about it, but. Yeah, these.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We're in a pretty big discussion about that, right?

[Sharif]

Yeah, we're going to do a. I think you and Danica and Vanessa and I are going to have a whole hour here and in the main feed in a couple of weeks, but 500,000 copy print run. She's an established brand name. If critics like it it will be on the year end list. Maybe there's some genre award nominations for her. I mean I also do think there's like interesting potential for this to do some stuff on social so but I mean I think kind of obviously V E Schwab is going to knock out Susan Choi here.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's one of the few. There's a couple of. There's a couple of big hitters in that sweet one. I can't get over the autograph thing. Why all 500,000 just now we now.

[Sharif]

We'Re talking about Spridges like it's not a at least the one I got.

[Jeff O'Neill]

If you don't have spreads you got to put your name in it. That's the only way to sell books anymore. I think pretty that the four of us are going to do give an hour to it is probably the leading indicator for us deciding like we pretty preordained that this is a leading consultant contender here. We're gonna do another sponsor break and come back.

[Dana A. Williams]

Today's episode is brought to you by 8th Note Press, publishers of Learning to Fall by Peach Morris. 18 year old Casey feels stuck. Her friends are off to school, she's stuck at home caring for her mother and her trifling raggedy boyfriend cheats on her. But then the unknowing other girl, Imogen, offers an apology, friendship and introduction to the world of roller derby. And Casey's world finally starts to look a little brighter. Casey soon joins a group of fearless teammates who aren't afraid to speak their minds and body slam each other, which I guess is a good quality to have in friends. Plus, she's nursing a serious crush on her magnetic new friend. The question is, will roller derby be a brand new start or a place to break her heart and her bones in one go? We're gonna find out. We're gonna read it. Debut author Peach Morris is a queer, non binary disabled author who, like their main character Casey, found solace in the roller derby community. I'm excited for this one, y' all. Make sure to pick up Learning by Peach Morris. And thanks again to 8th Note Press for sponsoring this episode.

[Sharif]

This episode is sponsored by Life is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches by Jennifer Welch and Angie Pumps Sullivan. Stick around after the show to hear an excerpt from the audiobook provided by Hanover Square Press. From the hosts of the hit podcast I've had it comes a bold, hilarious guide to navigating life's challenges with humor, resilience and hope through raw honesty and sharp wit. Jennifer Welch and Angie Pumps Sullivan share the lessons they've learned tackling addiction, heartbreak and self doubt together. Part memoir, part survival guide, their book is packed with wisdom and laughs to help you find joy and connection no matter what life throws at you. This is about how friendship is a lifeline. Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan share how their decades long friendship helped them navigate life's toughest challenges. The book blends candid personal stories with sharp wit and offers a refreshing and relatable take on overcoming chaos in the day to day. Again, stick around after the show to hear an excerpt from the audiobook edition of Life Is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches by Jennifer Welch and Angie Pumps Sullivan.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think, I think maybe Laura took this in the draft. I don't remember. I didn't look at the spreadsheet. But up next on my list, June 10th from SNS Great Black Hope by Rob Franklin, which is a debut novel with all kinds of wild blurbs. Akbar Ruman Alam Hildebrand it is kind of one of those novels where the synopsis I don't think is going to do us any favors because it's kind of a tour through modern America where someone has to figure out what happened. And as you can imagine, it's about. So I'll give you the slugline, I guess for people listening. An arrest for cocaine possession, the last day of a sweltering New York summer leaves Smith a positive. I mean, a positive the quote, the commas. Smith, being a queer black Stanford graduate in a state of turmoil, pulled into the court system and mandated treatment, he finds himself in an absurd but dangerous situation. His class protects him, but his race does not. So this is an exploration of race and class and privilege in America told by someone who gets caught up in it. I think that's simple. Yeah, Akbar's blurb is has sentences I want to cut out and put on my forehead. Now, again, friends, we gotta be careful when friends blur.

[Sharif]

Did they both go to the Iowa?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm just guessing here, but if this does have magic electric sentences and the social stuff and some plot absurdity, then you're talking. We're talking here about we've got the ingredients of the primordial ooze of an it book.

[Sharif]

Yeah, you're talking National Book Award nominations, you're talking Best Books of the Year lists. It probably will not sell as many copies as Version, at least initially.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But like with Martyr, again, this would.

[Sharif]

Be your hope for that's true. This. It could be. This could be like this year's Martyr, which although I think Martyr really benefited from coming out in January of the year that it came out. Like it had a whole year to celebrate before James. Right?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Sharif]

It got four months of Runway before Percival. Leverage.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, there's no James this year, so.

[Sharif]

That's right. Yeah. I think I'm going to give the edge to Ve Schwab. Just like that's such an established track record.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't see how you can't. But I'm sorry.

[Sharif]

And people will be. Yeah. I'm tempted also to just like turn it over.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm really looking forward to this book.

[Sharif]

This one's been on my personal list as well. But yeah, we're going to roll on with Bare Airbones in the Midnight Soil for at least one more round.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm going to turn over the setup to the next one to you because you also have read this the Dry Season by Melissa Febos, which is a memoir of a year. I think all the doing it she sucked out of barrier bones in the midnight. Sort of a. The opposite. Opposite of a contact high.

[Sharif]

Yeah. So Melissa Febos, one of her previous memoirs is called Abandon Me and it's about a two year long, very abusive relationship that she was in. After that relationship, she has a string of like romantic dalliances, flirtations, sexual encounters, like a whole bunch of stuff. And realizes that she wants to re examine the role that relationships and sex play in her life. So she decides to be celibate for three months. A lot of her friends make fun of her, like, oh, just three months, like, but to her this is a really big deal. Like sex has been very important to her. It becomes six months and in the process she undertakes an inventory of all of the romantic and sexual relationships that she's had in her life to try to identify patterns and see, like to see the things that she hasn't previously been able to see about herself and how she uses sex and love to meet other needs in her life along the way. Like she has a whole lot of free time because she's not spending a lot of time dating and sleeping with people and starts thinking about the role of celibacy, also the role of connection of other kinds in her life. She's working on multiple levels. Like it's not a stunt memoir about like I didn't bone anybody for six months and here's what happened, right. And she's just a hell of a writer. Like they're literary references. There's a lot of really personal, intricate stuff that she's unearthing and talking about. I really loved it. There's already a New York Times profile about her coming out. I don't think she's going to outsell Barry. Our Bones in the Midnight Soil.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm kind of feeling like maybe I should have picked her in the in the fantasy league at this point.

[Sharif]

Yeah, I don't think anybody took her in the fantasy league, but I have her in our Patreon summer draft.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Good pick from you. Okay, moving right along. As the Muppets say, I've got another debut here, I think. Also when I picked in the summer draft how to Dodge a Cannonball by Denard Dale Debut novel. Like I said before, a satire of race set in the Civil War. Some amazing blurbs here. I haven't seen this comp on the COVID of a book, but it says perfect for fans of Colson Whitehead and James McBride. That's all I need here.

[Sharif]

That is bold.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We also need to be careful out there. Let's not get hurt. But he's a comic writer. He's done. He's. His bio clearly was written by him. He advertising copywriter who dangerously flirted with stand up comedy is in the bio there. Princeton, MFA at Columbia graduate. He's written for New Yorker McSweeney's Internet Tendency. He has new brothers in this sort we get someone who I can't remember who one side goes to there. I'm imagining it goes from a Union side to a Southern side of a black soldier who passes for white in the Southern army and then has to take up with the Confederates and like meets people and participates and traffics in what's going on down there. But it sounds like a really zany comic kind of way Steingart blurbed it. So I'm expecting to have a biting, funny, satirical bite to it. At the same time. This is not going to be, I don't know what a good example is going to be. It's going to be a little bit more James and a little bit less, I don't know, beloved. I guess I'll put it that way in terms of his comic sensibilities is what I'm kind of guessing here. I'm looking forward to it.

[Sharif]

That sounds great. I'm so nervous for any writer being compared to both Colson Whitehead and Percival Everett, but I'm looking forward to it. It's a high mountain to climb to be a debut writer. Yeah. So V E Schwab is going to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Roll on for one more memoir. One of my favorite categories is memoir by New Yorker writer. And Jeff Dyer does not put on his bio that he's a New Yorker writer. He may have had a byline there or not, but he's a literary writer. He's an English person who's written wonderfully just for his whole life in sort of the top tier magazines and newspapers. He's written a collection of criticism, won the National Book Critics Circle Award. And this is his memoir of growing up in a working class part of England and took the definitive like test that you can get to the fancy school. And he passed and then entered into a whole life of art and literature. And like the, the beginning, the COVID shot is like him in the 50s standing next to a car with like tail fins on it and his sort of awkward parents. And then from there all the way into his modern life of being, you know, the kind of writer a lot of people dream of being, can kind of write about anything. Well, and people read him about anything. And I'm one of those people.

[Sharif]

What's the title?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Homework by Jeff Dyer.

[Sharif]

Homework. Good title. That has real dead Poet Society vibes. To me, that's like. That sounds like Catnip is not going to outsell V E Schwab or get picked by any big book clubs. But I'm glad it's on this list.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I will listen to this with extreme prejudice.

[Sharif]

I will be looking forward to this one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The only demerit, he spells his name with a G. And so that's always an issue that it's hard to look at that. All right. Well, that brings us to another debut novelist. I mean, I don't know if you've heard of Taylor Jenkins Reid.

[Sharif]

I'm familiar.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Her new book Atmosphere, comes out in June, of course, June 3rd. And as has been her want of the late, the last few, to take sort of a interesting profession in a historical setting and put an interesting woman at the center of it and kind of see what happens.

[Sharif]

Yeah. And she's done what, surfing and there was tennis and now she's moving out of athletics and into space.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Is that, is that, is that exactly what the last. Because I read Malibu Rising. I didn't catch the tennis one.

[Sharif]

Yeah, the tennis one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Harry Sullivan was back, right?

[Sharif]

Yes. And that's the one that I think Serena Williams is involved in, Right, the production. Yeah. I'm not sure if. Yeah, yeah. TJR is on a run, despite the fact that two podcasters did not know that the Seven and a Half Husbands of Evelyn Hugo or whatever it is.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I get that confused with the Seven and a Half deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle, but it's the Seven Husbands Evelyn Hugo.

[Sharif]

Having seven and Evelyn in two titles is like this should not be allowed.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, really take a beating on that.

[Sharif]

You can't have two actors registered for SAG with the same name. So like why do we have this?

[Jeff O'Neill]

So just just to give some sense of the heater that Jenkins has been on and then maybe a little bit of a tail off over the last couple. So Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo was 2017 really found life as a TikTok social video sensation. Daisy Jones and the Six published in 2019 of course that got a wonderful adaptation and just a real crowd pleaser writ large.

[Sharif]

And the Evelyn Hugo social media moment comes like a few years after the Daisy Jones publication. It's like 2021, 2022.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right. Is that the order of operations? I guess.

[Sharif]

I think so. I think it was popular when it first came out, but like it got the TikTok bump late as things tend to do. Like it got it as a backlist title.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And then malibu rising in 2021, which I think we heard less about. But looking on Goodreads right Now, it has 1.2 million ratings which is only a half million behind Daisy Jones in this.

[Sharif]

Yeah, I read that one and really enjoyed it. I think it made some end of year lists. And I just missed Carrie Soto last year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I did too. And so then carrie soda in 2022. But what I'm saying is that the again I'm using Goodreads as a proxy and take that with all the caveats. But Evelyn Hugo 3.7 million ratings. I mean just a smash.

[Sharif]

Yeah. Daisy Jones is just 3.7.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I mean it's probably the top 20 most rated. Daisy Joe in the 6. 1.7. Malibu rising 1.2. And then Carrie Soda's back is 644,000. So half of Malibu Rising. So this happens. Right. It's hard. You cannot live at the air up there with Daisy Jones the six and seven husbands forever. You just can't.

[Sharif]

And it might be regression to the mean in some form, but she's still so far above the mean. 600,000 ratings for your least popular title and. And that her I won't even say decline but that this pullback to something more typical happens like coincides with the rise of Romantasy that the thing that Taylor Jenkins Reid does which like if she were writing these books in the late 90s and early 2000s, we would have been talking about them as like upmarket Chiclet, like well written women's fiction. Yeah. It's not as fluffy like as some of the chick lit was, but people.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Less lipstick and stilettos.

[Sharif]

Yeah. But in that women's fiction zone and Romantasy, I think carved off like, peeled off a lot of those types of readers and pulled them into, you know, the Romantasy and fantasy zone.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think it also does show that there is a meaningful, and I could be way underselling that meaningfulness there of people are reading what they're reading because other people are reading it and it is. You need to have something at the core. But Seven Husbands of Evelyn, Hugo and Fourth Wing are considerably different kinds of books and reading experience. One is much more to my liking than the other. That's immaterial here. But it's different enough that they're not just transportable interest. And the maelstrom of attention, interest, sales and activity around Romantasy is going to siphon off some of the casual readers that are like, what are people talking about? What are people reading?

[Sharif]

The like, people I see in the hair salon who are just like, what is that that you're picking up? Or the folks around the pool, people who are looking for what's on the shelf in the airport bookstores. Like a lot of that is, I think, being redirected into Romantasy because that's what the headlines are about. That's what you're getting served. If you just log on to TikTok and you search for books, the first couple things they try to give you are almost definitely going to be Romantasy. And so people are. That's what people are hearing about in the same way that in 2012 the thing they were hearing about was 50 shades of gray. And in 2005, the thing they were hearing about was Twilight. And the folks who were gonna fill some of their, what let's call it 6 to 12 reading slots for the year with what's popular. Like this is what's popular. And Taylor Jenkins Reid had a big moment and is continuing to do just fine. But Romantasy is having the big moment.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right now and I don't know. She also is an interesting zone between an every year writer, like the Emily Henry's of the world, and a different kind of writer. I'm not gonna say more, Larry, because it can be sometimes just an event writer who's. It's every few years. So like they've got a new book out. So this is every 2ish years. There's back to back and then it's been 3 since the last one here. So is she. Do people think of her as sort of an end of the grocery store aisle. James Patterson, Emily Henry, Allie Hazelwood.

[Sharif]

I think so.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Or more of. I'm not even sure. Kristin Hannah, I guess, is the closest comp in terms of popularity.

[Sharif]

I think that's probably a good comp. Yeah. Probably a Kristin Hannah, but for more contemporary.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Sharif]

Kinds of readers. It's interesting to put her up against VE Schwab and bury our bones.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, that's what I was going to lead to next is how to. Because there's not dissimilar but also not at all opaque.

[Sharif]

Yeah. And they both like. I would believe you if you told me both of these books were published 10 years ago and were big deals 10 years ago. Bury our bones feels like a popular vampire book from a while ago, from before the times of romantasy. Like it was kind of surprising to read a vampire book that, like vampire fiction, tends to have sexy times in it and that this was pretty mild and closed door. And then Taylor Jenkins Reid is writing a more like straightforward type of upmarket fiction, or what we might have called women's fiction that also there. I think there are some romantic elements in atmosphere, but it's not a rom com. It's not the same. Like the COVID is not the same type of illustrated cover.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that's the. Maybe the central insight is it's not marketed like those other things.

[Sharif]

Right. That all the rom coms have. So it looks different. And like, to me, that's refreshing. Right now I'm tired of everything looking and sounding the same, But I'm really curious about how the new Jenkins Reid is gonna land in this moment where romantasy and rom coms are dominating everything. And also how bury our bones will land in a moment when something spicier than just a vampire story seems to be the thing that you need if you're really gonna break out. I think I'm gonna give the edge to Taylor Jenkins Reid because it seems to me more likely for her to get a big book club pick and that kind of real escape velocity than for v. E Schwab too. And we've seen Reid make end of the year lists before. I don't think either of them is really going to be an awards contender.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't. I mean, maybe for the genre awards for Schwab, that's always a possibility. I think the. The floor on the Schwab is a little higher because of the fandom for science fiction and fantasy of a commercial stripe. And again, I'm not talking Romantasy. I think Romantasy is its own snow globe universe right now. I don't think a lot of those people are flying over to pick up. I don't. I'm trying to think of something off the top of my head. I mean, Bardugo. Right. I guess to use one of the other great brands like Bardugo is swimming in the same waters as Schwab. But I don't think you peel off a lot of those readers. But also, I think the people that are looking at Schwab and looking at Bardugo aren't going to be sort of replacement reading some generic romantic with that title.

[Sharif]

That's interesting. Yeah. I think you could. You might experience Schwab or Bardugo as a gateway drug into Romantasy, because marketing is going to try to funnel you that direction. But I don't think many folks are going the other way. That if you're a big Romantasy reader right now and you get marketed the ve Schwab. I mean, maybe people pick it up, but, like, it's not going to give you the thing that you're looking for if what you're looking for is that romantic, spicy, you know, sexy element. This. Yeah. Interesting comparison to end up with these two, but I think I am going to give the edge to Taylor Jenkins Reid.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, we have one more after. We have one more. But just a note on Hannah, just in terms of publishing cadence, I looked at it real quick. So Nightingale 2015. Then after that, it's the great alone 2018. Then the four winds in 2021 and the women in 2024. And she had some books before the Nightingale, but the night, really the breakout.

[Sharif]

That was the big moment.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And then she did Firefly Lane, which people forget about, which is like kind of a Netflix. Yep.

[Sharif]

I'm not even sure that's a women's fiction.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's right. And I should. I should try to talk to Kristin Hannah sometime because I'd be so interested. I haven't read. I read the Nightingale and the Women, but I haven't read anything before the Nightingale.

[Sharif]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I've only seen, like, the Netflix trailer for Firefly lane, and that's 2008. And she did some other stuff between that, like Home Front, Night Road, but the pivot from what looks like a Judy Jodi Picoult cover to Writing Dad Books for Women. I mean, there's no. I mean, I'm not even sure how to put this. Like.

[Sharif]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Women in these sort of grand historical moments and telling.

[Sharif]

Right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Big historical.

[Sharif]

Epic historical fiction that isn't romantic historical fiction or about World War II lady librarian spies?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, they're just spies in the Nightingale. But you know, it's kind of. I mean, I wonder kind of kicked off that too. I wonder if the marketability of Lady Spies really initiated with the Nightingale. So last. And I put this last for a couple of reasons. One is I didn't want to have one of the three that are kind of true contenders. But in terms of long term, in terms of the kinds of stories we're going to see about it, it's getting a pretty significant print run, it looks like from Amistad, which is imprinted Harper's. This has been long gestating, but it's Tony at Random, which is Dana A. Williams's book about Morrison's time as an editor at Random House. 368 pages, 40,000 print run for a book like this is pretty significant.

[Sharif]

That is pretty significant.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It would make sense. Williams is a professor and dean of the graduate school at Howard. Morrison was amenable to this project when she was alive. So that tells you a couple things about it. One, it's been cooking for a while because Morrison has been gone for a while and the kind of access that Williams has had. In fact, Morrison even helped or. Yeah, Morrison helped name the book. Like she suggested the book Tony at Random.

[Sharif]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Maybe was her email address. Did she have. Was she there long enough to have email? No, she could not.

[Sharif]

No, because she, I think she was. Yeah, she was at Random House through the publication of the Bluest eye and maybe Sula.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And that's like 79, I think. Sula, something like that. Anyway, pre email. So look, this isn't going to be a book. Well, Oprah, listen, I wouldn't, I, I wouldn't be. I'd be surprised but not shocked.

[Sharif]

Yeah. And I would be delighted if we could sit here and say this is going to knock out Taylor Jenkins, Reid v. E. Schwab. We don't live in that world and that's okay. But I'm glad you're mentioning it. Important. Like these are important documents. Toni Morrison, one of our most important writers, one of our shared favorites. We will be watching this. I think a lot of publishing is going to be watching this. A lot of folks have.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm going to read this for. Absolutely going to read this.

[Sharif]

A lot of folks have attachment to at least like the Bluest Eye and SULA and Beloved. Like some of the really they're all signal works, but some of the really signal works that if you haven't read the whole Morrison corpus. You've probably encountered those if you were an English major or somebody who's working in the world of books and reading or you feel like you should have read them if you haven't. She's so significant and our last American Nobel Prize winner. Just a huge deal to follow that career. And that she was cranking out, you know, books that became some of the most important novels in American history while also editing and shepherding other writers careers is just a fascinating story.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean, the people that she worked with are a who's who of late 70s, you know, 60s into 70s black arts. Muhammad Ali, Angela Davis, Tony Cade Bambara, Huey Newton. And as I talked to, I talked about before, like this cadre of people and women and black women in particular writing at this time thought they were really, thought they were part of. And they were really part of something. So it's, it's interesting there. I guess I'm not going to make a case for it for the it book of the month. I guess I'm more looking at. If you look at the totality of the year, is there a chance it wins some major awards for fiction? I think absolutely.

[Sharif]

I think there totally is. I wouldn't be surprised to see this land on a National Book Award or Pulitzer. The Pulitzers have that category for biography. It's a little tougher for the National Book Award because all nonfiction gets lumped together and biographies tend to have a harder time hacking it there with like serious political stuff that comes up. But this feels like a Pulitzer biography finalist.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And I, at the end of the year, I think it's a. There could be a world in which this is one of the books of the year. Like it could be on the New York Times books of the year list. There's no doubt about that.

[Sharif]

This could be on an Obama list.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Like I was, I was struggling to remember the name of Courtney Thorson's book that I read, the Sisterhood, just to name check that How a network of black women Writers Changed American Culture, talked specifically about this moment in time and made me think, I don't know who would have the temerity to do this? This would be the literary TV we maybe talked about on this episode. Or a different Patreon. But like, what about a seven episode prestige drama of Toni Morrison's last days at Random House with a who's who of black actors playing black artists and writers. Please, please. I mean, maybe that's a Patreon episode. We can cast Fran Leibowitz. We can we can just go through and cast everybody?

[Sharif]

Imagine having the temerity to play young Fran Leibowitz. Like that's really bold.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's really interesting. What if you just cast Fran Lebowitz and do we just all sort of pretended.

[Sharif]

Yes, that's what you do. Or can we like Benjamin Button, Fran Leibelin somehow?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Sharif]

Just uncanny de aging.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But like I've long wanted. I mean this is me. I wanted. I want a Mad Men for books like something like this. Because what you get, you get people these, these characters people have heard of but don't know. But what you get is the dialogue. You get the language. You have an excuse to be Sorkin esque plus hyper realistic language because it sort of makes sense within that world.

[Sharif]

And Mad Men is the right comp too, because it's the same time period that like publishing, I mean we can.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Put it wherever you want.

[Sharif]

But yeah, publishing is having three martini lunches in the mid-60s into mid-70s and you know, the paperback is rising and all sorts of new voices are coming out. And like, I think when people, when some people like older executives have had a make publishing great again kind of yearning, it's for those, like those heydays of like really having huge expense accounts and publishing being very glamorous, which it has been quite a while since like not in my 20ish years has publishing been glamorous. I don't think it was glamorous for a while, even before we got into it. But I mean a Toni Morrison, I don't know how big the audience for that is, but a, like something inspired by it set in that time frame would be really fun to watch anyway.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I would find it, or maybe like play. I just find myself dying for a dramatization of putting these people in conversation around the issues of the day about art, but also race and class and politics and gender too, in the. I mean, I actually think this period of the 70s would be. Because the new is is struggling to be born to quote better writers and thinkers than me. But the old is kicking and screaming and sort of there. So that tension could be pretty fascinating. You could bring. Because Mad Men, for all of its many virtues, was about all of the issues I just said, but not really explicitly. Right. You could have an explicit conversation between, I don't know, Truman Capote and John Updike in the offices at Knopf. I actually don't know if they were published by the same people.

[Sharif]

And you get like somebody that's who. Who's publishing bell hooks at this time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Sharif]

And like those voices that are pushing against the Betty Friedan version of feminist thought and like kind of the way before we had the term. But the first intersection of any. Or the first introduction of any kind of intersectionality in political thought and discourse.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And at this moment too. And Professor Thorson does a good job of talking about this. Like Morrison has become the. The monument for reasons that I think are understandable and useful. But also any monument tends to smooth out the wrinkles and bumps in the story. And Morrison was challenged. Morrison is spiky. Morrison's a more complicated figure now than I think people know or want or even are interested in knowing about. Same with Zora Neale Hurston. Same with any of these Titanic figures of arts, letters or history. But it would be cool to see someone who's more radical than Morrison, like, storm into her office at random and say, what the hell are you doing here? Right. Something like that.

[Sharif]

You want me to cut this? What are you thinking?

[Jeff O'Neill]

What are you doing? So I think it's. But also know why are you a part of the machine? We should be out doing our own thing. And you know, you could get the Amira Barakas of the world and some of the other more radical people and that. That push me pull you of art and commerce and being. Being a part of the system. That's interesting in any context. But Morrison. Is there any more interesting locus of that kind of investigation than Morrison? I can't think of one.

[Sharif]

Yeah, that would be. It would be so wonderful to have that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So that was a lot of excuse for me to fan cast a Toni Morrison sentence. Publishing.

[Sharif]

We're in charge here. We don't need excuses.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Anyway, so that. Let's go back. So we're going to advanced Atmosphere. But let me go through. We had King of Ashes by SA Cosby. Then the Girl who Grew Big by Leila Motley. I think from there you actually advanced the Girl who Grew Big.

[Sharif]

I did.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And then we had Flashlight by Susan Choi. And then I believe you advanced that book. Then we had Burial Bones in the Midnight Soil. Then it goes on bit of a run because it then knocks out Great Black Hope by Rob Franklin. The Dry Season by Melissa Febos. How to Dodge a Cannonball by Denard Dale. Homework by Jeff Dyer. Finally is knocked out by Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reed. And then we cleared out a little space to nerd out about Tony At Random by Dana. Professor Dana Williams there. I didn't see a Murderer's Row of Stephen King. Honorary. You get mentioned here. Atmosphere is the number one most popular book of June according to Goodreads. In terms of anticipation. Barrier Bones is number three. There's a lot of.

[Sharif]

What'S number two?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Thrillers. I'm gonna get that. There's a run of thrillers. 2, 4, 5, 6 are all so it's Death Row by Freda McFadden. With a vengeance by Riley Sager. Don't let him Hidden by Lisa Jewel. So surprised to see that kind of the first.

[Sharif]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Straight up rom com is Sounds Like Love by Ashley poston at number seven.

[Sharif]

And yeah. Freedom McFadden is in the now Stephen King. There's just another new one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yep. So I almost put this on here and maybe I should have and listeners can tell me the Listeners by Maggie Stiefat. Which is not it number haven't heard from her eight on this list of anticipated. It's a lady spy in 1942.

[Sharif]

Okay. Is it ya or is Steve Otter writing for adults?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Let's see. It doesn't say it's got to be adult. It's got to be adult.

[Sharif]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So there's a romance element to have two. So there you go. So that's why I didn't put it on because I Lady spies don't. You got to do something a lot different. A lot different. King of Ashes number 12 in terms of things we talked about. We start seeing a couple of big romances. Heir of Storms by Lauren Murray stormweaver series number one at number 15. Gloves off. We got a hockey romance. Number four from Stephanie Archer. I know the Vancouver Storm series have been very popular in my household especially. And let's see, there was one other one I was going to mention that I hadn't heard of. Yeah. So this one is caught up by Nevesa Allen Into Darkness number two in this series. It sounds like this is extremely spicy. In fact there is a genre on Goodreads now. I did not realize this that is just tag smut and they just. And everyone have a good time. There is a morally gray male lead. Some themes and scenes may be disturbing to readers. Please check the content warning at the beginning of the book is in the good. Official good.

[Sharif]

This might be in the the dark romance.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah yeah.

[Sharif]

Vein that's happening lately. Which okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The. The slug line is get on your knees and pray with an E and pray. So be careful out there. Enjoy yourselves if that's your kind of thing. But so that was new to me. Thought I wouldn't thought I would mention it in here.

[Sharif]

That was new to me.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes.

[Sharif]

You putting yourself in completely optional situations where you have to read descriptions like that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's, you know, what, you walk up to the water's edge, you don't have to get in. But sometimes that's interesting. Look at what they're.

[Sharif]

That's, that's, look what they're doing out there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Look what they're doing out there. Seem like they're having a great time. Be careful, wear your life jacket and make sure you wear sunscreen. Okay. Those are the books of June. You can email us podcastookriot.com shoot us an email bookriot.com listen and it's going to be a Helter Skelter of episodes and things. The next up on this feed will be Sharif and I talking about Flashlight by Susan Choi. And we also have an interview with some folks from Spotify Audiobooks to share with you as well. And do if you're interested in any of the a lot of the books we talked about here and especially touched on, the Patreon first edition is a real smorgasbord starting next week for June. I think I have six or seven episodes. There might be fewer. I might do twin up some of those things because I've made promises to get things published during publication week. And when Everything comes out June 3, it presents a real problem, but it makes for a embarrassment of riches over there as well. Rebecca, safe travels to you and we'll talk.

[Sharif]

Thank you. Yeah. Just also, one quick note for folks on the Patreon in mid June, we're gonna talk about the Richard Linklater before movie series. Before sunset, before sunrise, opposite order before sunrise. Before sunset, before midnight. They're like 90 minutes a piece. If you have not seen them, give yourself a little summer treat and watch those and come hang out with us on Patreon while we have an appreciation moment. If you've seen them, you know how great they are, so you should just go rewatch them.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes. All right, Rebecca, I'll talk to you later.

[Sharif]

All right, Have a good one, y' all. Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you'll enjoy this excerpt from the audiobook edition of Life Is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches by Jennifer Welch and Angie Pumps Sullivan, provided by our sponsors at Hanover Square Press.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

When things go apeshit bananas, Pumps is my phone call, my partner in crime, my rudder in the storm. If there's one thing I've learned from my years on this planet, American culture has unrealistic expectations about happiness and balance. We live in a fractured society in which social media filters and AI create a false front. Everyone looks happy, perfect, smooth and forever young with something the Internet calls glass skin. The messages we internalize that we should be hotter, richer, more fulfilled only increase our feelings of inadequacy. The relentless drive toward wellness counterproductively serves to make us feel unwell. The search for total happiness leads to unhappiness. The quest for total balance leads to imbalance. You know that game people play when everyone goes around the table saying what they would do if they won Powerball for a gazillion dollars? I hate to break this to you, but even if you won the lottery and paid off all of your student loans, your car and your mortgage, then went on an all expenses paid vacation to the Maldives, you might only be happy for a nanosecond before a whole host of other problems cropped up. You'd be in one of those thatched huts over the turquoise waters of the Indian Ocean thinking, I want to be on a yacht in Bora Bora. As soon as you attained that one thing you thought you had to have or die trying, your mind would create a new void with other unattainable wants and desires. Because that's how the human mind functions. It wants more, more, more. The latest designer handbag, a bigger house, and the latest iPhone. Hotter sex. New clothes. Different spouse, different lips, different face. But so many things in life are out of our control. We get crow's feet. Our parents get old and die. Our children grow from sweet, sweet babies who hide behind our shins and call out for us at night to teenagers who answer K when we text I love you. Adulthood is the ultimate bait and switch. Our dream jobs turn out to be staring at spreadsheets and answering endless passive aggressive emails or attending zoom meetings that could have been emails. The bills, disappointments and crushed expectations rained down on us like a monsoon. When I was growing up in South Oklahoma City, my mother had a Lazy Susan, a rotating circular device that holds food, spices and condiments in the kitchen cabinet. Lazy Susans are famously prevalent in Chinese restaurants, where food is set on a turntable and served family style. Some people think Thomas Jefferson brought the concept of the Lazy Susan to America from France, or invented it for his daughter Susan, who complained that she was always last at the dinner table to get her chicken and gravy. Some say the name comes from the 18th century moniker for servants called Susans. I used to picture adult life as a Lazy Susan, a rotating smorgasbord of options and choices. Nothing fancy, just something fun and easier to handle and digest. I don't know why I thought this. My parents never modeled a perfect marriage. My dad, like many men of his generation, most likely had untreated PTSD from his tour in Vietnam. He could be angry and withdrawn, and my mother never found her footing in an intellectually fulfilling career, but they seemed happy enough. My mom read voraciously and my dad raised racing pigeons in the backyard. On TV I saw a lot of mothers who smiled as they joyfully slid pot roasts in and out of the oven. Every show seemed to depict couples who modeled breezy, conjugal contentment. I don't know what I thought marriage was supposed to be. Was it Mike and Carol Brady? The kooky antics of Lucy and Ricky? My parents rarely drank, yet somehow Angie and I both married lawyers who turned out to be married to drugs and alcohol and in Angie's case, sex workers. No matter how I spun it, my life became a lazy Susan of shit sandwiches. The wheel turned and turned and I always got a grilled turd.