The Top Ten Books to Read to Be Well-Read

Summary

Book Riot - The Podcast: Episode Summary Title: The Top Ten Books to Read to Be Well-Read
Release Date: July 16, 2025
Hosts: Jeff O’Neal and Rebecca Shinsky

In this engaging episode of Book Riot - The Podcast, hosts Jeff O’Neal and Rebecca Shinsky embark on an enlightening discussion about the essential books one should read to consider themselves "well-read." Delving deep into literary classics and modern masterpieces, they explore the significance, influence, and enduring relevance of each selected work. This comprehensive summary captures their insightful conversations, highlighting key points, memorable quotes, and the rationale behind each book's inclusion in the top ten list.

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1. The Odyssey by Homer

Timestamp: [06:19]

Jeff kicks off the list by emphasizing the foundational role of The Odyssey in Western literature. He discusses how this epic poem serves as a template for the hero's journey, influencing countless books and movies across millennia. Rebecca adds that understanding The Odyssey enriches one's appreciation of modern narratives, citing connections like Jesmyn Ward's Sing, Unburied, Sing as a contemporary retelling.

Notable Quote:

Jeff: “The Odyssey is foundational. Many storylines have become foundational through fiction ever since Shakespeare. For example, you need to read Hamlet to understand The Lion King.” [02:23]

2. Dante's Inferno by Dante Alighieri

Timestamp: [16:32]

Transitioning from ancient epics, Jeff and Rebecca discuss Dante's Inferno, highlighting its intricate portrayal of Hell and its lasting impact on literature and pop culture. Jeff shares personal anecdotes about navigating the complex symbolism of the nine circles, while Rebecca appreciates Dante's blend of the secular and the sacred, noting its role in the Renaissance literary revolution.

Notable Quote:

Jeff: “Dante's Inferno offers a poetic tradition that transitions from spiritual to more secular literary concerns. It’s an entertaining and surprising read that deepens your understanding of literary references.” [18:25]

3. Souls of Black Folk by W.E.B. Du Bois

Timestamp: [20:08]

Jeff selects Souls of Black Folk for its profound exploration of African American identity and the concept of double consciousness. Rebecca underscores its relevance in understanding marginalized perspectives, emphasizing its importance in fostering empathy and broader literary comprehension.

Notable Quote:

Rebecca: “Souls of Black Folk introduces the idea of double consciousness, a powerful concept for understanding the experiences of marginalized people navigating multiple identities.” [20:12]

4. Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes

Timestamp: [21:55]

Rebecca champions Don Quixote as the birth of the modern novel. She elaborates on Cervantes' innovative narrative techniques and the protagonist's delusional quests, which offer rich commentary on reality versus fiction. Jeff expresses frustration at not having encountered it during school, recognizing its pivotal role in literary development.

Notable Quote:

Rebecca: “Don Quixote is foundational for understanding the novel as we know it. Its metatextual elements and innovative storytelling make it a miracle of literature.” [21:55]

5. Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman

Timestamp: [26:14]

Jeff introduces Leaves of Grass as a cornerstone of Transcendentalist poetry. He advocates for reading Whitman's Song of Myself to grasp his profound influence on literary references and modern poetry. Rebecca concurs, recognizing her oversight in not initially including a Transcendentalist work.

Notable Quote:

Jeff: “Leaves of Grass and Song of Myself provide the best foundation for picking up literary references, enriching your understanding of contemporary poetry.” [26:23]

6. Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen

Timestamp: [28:21]

Rebecca highlights Pride and Prejudice for its intricate portrayal of early 19th-century society and the evolution of the novel form. She praises Austen's masterful character development and the novel's enduring relevance in defining romantic narratives.

Notable Quote:

Rebecca: “Pride and Prejudice is not just a romantic story; it’s a war novel where the stakes involve marriage and social standing, reflecting the livelihood and societal pressures of the time.” [28:21]

7. Emily Dickinson's Poetry

Timestamp: [31:38]

Jeff and Rebecca delve into Emily Dickinson’s poetry, appreciating her complex relationship with language and personal experiences. They discuss the common misconceptions about Dickinson and underscore her profound influence on modern poetry through her innovative thematic and stylistic choices.

Notable Quote:

Jeff: “Emily Dickinson is one of the most misquoted authors, but her poetry offers a rich, complex exploration of personal and relational themes that are invaluable for any well-read individual.” [31:38]

8. Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky

Timestamp: [34:24]

Jeff defends Crime and Punishment as a critical work for understanding philosophical and moral dilemmas. Rebecca echoes the sentiment, highlighting its exploration of guilt, politics, and morality. They agree on its relevance in contemporary discussions about power and ethics.

Notable Quote:

Rebecca: “Crime and Punishment delves into Christianity, guilt, and morality, making it a pulse-pounding narrative that challenges readers intellectually and emotionally.” [34:27]

9. The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald

Timestamp: [39:37]

Rebecca advocates for The Great Gatsby as a quintessential Modernist novel that captures the essence of the Roaring Twenties. She appreciates its concise yet impactful narrative and the lasting impression it leaves on American cultural and literary landscapes.

Notable Quote:

Rebecca: “The Great Gatsby is a defining Modernist text that encapsulates the spirit of the Roaring Twenties, with its rich symbolism and poignant social commentary.” [39:37]

10. One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel García Márquez

Timestamp: [41:18]

Jeff concludes the top ten with One Hundred Years of Solitude, emphasizing its role in the Magic Realism genre. He praises García Márquez's ability to weave surrealism with compelling narratives, making the novel a cornerstone for understanding contemporary and global literary movements.

Notable Quote:

Jeff: “One Hundred Years of Solitude is foundational for Magic Realism. It drops readers into a surreal world that challenges and expands their literary horizons.” [41:18]

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Methodology and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Jeff and Rebecca reflect on their selection process, acknowledging personal biases and educational influences. They emphasize the importance of understanding literary references, cultural contexts, and the enduring impact of these works on subsequent literature and popular culture.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Balancing Classics and Modern Works: The hosts strive to include a mix of ancient epics, Renaissance literature, and contemporary novels to provide a well-rounded literary foundation.
• Pop Culture Connections: They discuss how knowledge of these books enhances the appreciation of modern media, from films to contemporary novels.
• Diversity and Global Perspectives: The inclusion of Souls of Black Folk and One Hundred Years of Solitude highlights the importance of diverse voices and global perspectives in defining a well-read individual.

Concluding Insights

Jeff and Rebecca conclude by underscoring that being well-read entails a willingness to engage with challenging and influential texts. They advocate for an open-minded approach to reading, emphasizing that while being well-read is admirable, the joy of reading itself is equally valuable. Their passionate discourse encourages listeners to explore these seminal works to enrich their literary understanding and appreciation.

Final Quote:

Rebecca: “There are so many ways to be a reader, and this kind of reading is different. It's up to each individual to decide how they want to participate with it.” [52:09]

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This episode serves as a compelling guide for readers aspiring to deepen their literary knowledge, offering both a curated list of essential books and thoughtful commentary on the nature of being well-read. Jeff and Rebecca's dynamic conversation provides valuable insights into the enduring significance of these literary masterpieces.

Transcript

[Rebecca]

Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan are back in Disney's Freakier Friday.

[Jeff]

Yes. Orange. Yes.

[Rebecca]

On August 8th, we switched bodies.

[Jeff]

I didn't want to be a part of this family, and now I'm part of some dodgy family curse. And I'm the eldest.

[Rebecca]

The ultimate movie event of the summer arrives.

[Jeff]

I think I just peed a little.

[Rebecca]

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[Jeff]

Oh, this is cool. Let's do it.

[Rebecca]

Rated pg.

[Jeff]

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[Jeff]

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[Rebecca]

All right, so we've taken on an impossible task.

[Jeff]

Rarely, like, rarely do I feel the gap of you have a PhD in English and I don't. But this was one where.

[Rebecca]

Well, I actually, I think that may. I mean, depends on what we're solving for. Like, I think you may have a better sense of it because we're, I think people. I think the idea of well read is a more mainstream idea. Right. And there's a lot of academics that aren't well read in that particular field. Right. Like, they just. They're much more. I have a lot more literary history, but I'm going to over index on Thucydides. You hear what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

Yeah. I do remember slogging my way through the history of the Peloponnesian world.

[Rebecca]

Yeah, you do.

[Jeff]

Could not tell you anything that happens.

[Rebecca]

The Ring of Gyges, Solon, Croesus.

[Jeff]

You're just making sounds now.

[Rebecca]

No, that's all real. That's all real. So I think you may have a better calibration for what people understand in the. In the general sense, which is kind of the game here. But.

[Jeff]

Yeah, we'll meet in the middle.

[Rebecca]

We'll meet in the middle. So I have 10. We took Shakespeare off the board. And do we even need to say anything about that? Is that controversial at all to say that we would both have Shakespeare number one? We're not. Mine aren't power rankered after this? I should.

[Jeff]

No. Yeah, mine aren't ranked either. But I think Shakespeare is the mark of what we think about is literature. Like, if you want to be well read and maybe it's the first Thing that we all get a whiff of as like.

[Rebecca]

Right.

[Jeff]

That's what serious readers know about whether that's true or not. For being a serious reader, my memory certainly of like becoming aware that people had this as an identity or as an aspiration was very tied to like that you could read and understand Shakespeare. Like the language is different. They're plays, they're not novels. There's going to be some work to do. And so many of the storylines have become foundational through fiction ever since Shakespeare. Like I was joking on the main feed. Maybe you need to read Hamlet to understand the Lion King. Maybe you need to have like understood King Lear to watch succession. You don't have to, but it certainly enriches it. Not to mention all like little turns of phrase that we use. Like if you ever said somebody's in a pickle, you owe that to Shakespeare. It's hard to think of something that's more. Right.

[Rebecca]

It's amazing. Yeah. The way I kind of thought about was this is like I think for every other author book if someone said I consider myself well read. Let's say they said that. And I said, have you read X? And they answered, no, I wouldn't really bat an eye if I said you consider yourself well read? And they say, yes. I said, have you read any Shakespeare? Seen any? And they said no. I'd be like, huh, you know, I'm not saying I'm right. I would be like, huh, I wonder about that.

[Jeff]

Yeah, that's an interesting way to think about it. And so you're indexing for the like amount of, well, what gets you the most bang for your well read book.

[Rebecca]

The most, well, most bang for your buck. Yeah, Shakespeare gets you.

[Jeff]

I thought more about kind of a survey course in literary in like the greats in classics of what would get you a solid foundation both for understanding kind of the geography of classic literature or what we think of as the canon, but also especially the things that I'll start with are things that works that are referenced in just tons of other work that comes after them. And so having familiarity with the source gives you a deeper, a deeper access to an additional work than someone who you know doesn't have that. Not that you can't enjoy other those books anyway, but knowing that that's a reference and where it comes from will give you a greater understanding.

[Rebecca]

And I also. So I used to do this thing for this site which again, stay tuned, you may hear things of it like this in the future called Zero to well read, where I said basically this, if you had nothing, you were an alien dropped in North America at this moment of time, I should say the United States specifically at this moment of time. These are all contextual. This matters. There is no universal or even global or hemispheric or lingual sort of hegemony about it. You know, what would be the hundred that would get you there the quickest? And I tend to over index in that there are more modern things and more popular things. And it depends on the moment. Like, I had, I think, 50 shades when that came out. Or maybe there was Twilight or maybe both of them. Right. Because what I was looking was sort of a felicity with both the history of literature and what's going on right now. This is probably more contemporary than a normal great course. A great books course would be. I've taught some of those things. I have many more modern things, but I don't have a lot of modern stuff. I don't have anything published in the last 30 years. I don't think on my list.

[Jeff]

Yeah, that's kind of where I went as well. Like, since the question from one of the Patreon members and I scrolled back through Patreon, I could not figure out who asked this. So if you asked us to do an episode on classics being well read, like, please raise your hand and we can thank you or blame you for it. But the question was specifically about classics and I took a broad understanding of classics. But that it did like Twilight does not qualify here. Where if we were talking about what you need to have read to be grounded in an understanding of, like, modern reading, I would say you probably should read Twilight.

[Rebecca]

All right, with that. Let's do some minor in. Mine are in chronological order.

[Jeff]

Mine are kind of in chronological order. I can start. We can start with the oldies.

[Rebecca]

Right? Go.

[Jeff]

Okay. I think you need to read the Odyssey where you can cheat and pair it with the Iliad, like template for the hero journey. Lots of mythology and tons of books and movies have built on this story. Like in recent memory, we got Circe and oh, Brother, where Art Thou Built on the Odyssey. But there are elements of the Odyssey in so much fiction over the last several hundred years. Really several thousand years. But like, stuff you're reading today is drawing on the Odyssey, Jesmyn Ward's novel, where it's a family is taking the road trip. And I can never remember what the title of that one is.

[Rebecca]

Right. Sing Unburied.

[Jeff]

Singing. Yes. Is a loose retelling of the Odyssey. And Sing Unburied Sing is a quote from The Odyssey. Like, you could read that Jesmyn Ward novel and just enjoy what she's doing without knowing anything about the Odyssey. Knowing that that's a line, but you get a little extra juice if you can make that illusion. I think it's. I think it's really foundational. And it was one of the. Like, I took this. One of the best course I took in college was my first two semesters was a, like, multidisciplinary seminar, and we read the Odyssey. And I remember being like, this is so old. Like, what is this going to do for me? Here we are getting ready for hot Greek summer 20 years later.

[Rebecca]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jeff]

I didn't want to take the Iliad because I thought you would talk about the Iliad.

[Rebecca]

I have a couple of. Choose one or the other. Like, I have a couple of the Odyssey or the Iliad. I think you pick one.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Rebecca]

I think the Odyssey has more illusions. So using your own rubric. That's. That's so nice for you that you pick that. It is the better book. It's. The more.

[Jeff]

Well, yeah, it's.

[Rebecca]

The more enduring it has. A few of. My favorite. My single favorite moment in all of Western literature is book nine of the Iliad. Also will tear up thinking about Priam coming to Achilles to beg for his son's body at the end and Gna and Patroclus taking up Achilles armor and going, like. There's just. I think there's so much more interesting than most of the thing that happens in the bulk of the Odyssey, which is still interesting, but it's a lot of, like, look at this weird thing. So it's a better read if you're like 14, 15. It's easier to get through, and it certainly was for me. But as a grown person and more of a student and like, coming from a different point of view. And again, it so much depends on the translation and state of mind the Iliad is. If I have to save one thing, I'm probably saving the Iliad. And I'm sorry, Billy Shakes, but I'm probably selling saving the Iliad there. And, you know, some of these have to stand in for whole swaths. Like, this is essentially the entire ancient world is this stands in on my list, like, really 750bc up until. Well, depending on how you think about it, you know, for another millennia after at this point.

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[Rebecca]

So I guess I'll go next. We'll kind of ping pong back and forth. I think you have something that I have the Torah and the Gospels together. I think you need to do the first five books of the Bible. And in the Gospels, for those who that's Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, the canonical story of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. I think bang for your buck for references. If you're only picking one for references, you pick this because it's only like 80 pages when you put it all together, honestly.

[Jeff]

Yeah. So yeah, I had the same or similar. I had Genesis, Exodus, Psalms and the Gospels.

[Rebecca]

Sure. Yeah.

[Jeff]

And some like read the Cliffs Notes of Revelation because Revelation, Wikipedia, it's weird.

[Rebecca]

The four Horsemen and all that. Kind of pale writer. And you get all that.

[Jeff]

But you will. Yeah. There's. There is so much. And like I didn't realize this until I was taking college level English classes like you and I grew up in the Midwest in the Methodist Church. And so like we grew up going to Sunday school and learning these things. And this was just in my understanding of the world. And I was going to pick up these references, but sitting in English classes with kids who were either raised not in religious households or coming from other religious traditions and reading the great texts of American literature which refer to the Bible non stop in ways both overt and subtle that gave me a real like, oh, like watching a teacher mispronounce Gethsemane because you know, and be like, actually sorry. Right. But also like, how is he supposed to know that's not the tradition he grew up in? But if you're read, and I think that was in Faulkner that like, if you're reading some of these great works, the folks who wrote them often grew up in church and grew up with those stories. And this was just archetypal stuff that you're, you're just going to be a better reader if you have the background of these books, big Bible stories.

[Rebecca]

It of course follows the trajectory that's happened in people's actually lived experience of Growing up in faith traditions, but especially amongst the kind of person that goes on to write novels. Right. The secularization of that person's experience. Like, I look at my own family history, even one generation or two generations behind me, and then two generations ahead. The single biggest difference is my kids didn't grow up going to Sunday school. Everyone else that I know had the name o' Neill or Drone or Graves or Long, coming from both sides, were going, working in the church, actively pastors themselves. Right. And I think it's going to be so hard. It's even hard for us, and we grew up in this church. I'm saying, you and me, to realize that in 1938, the weight of scripture as a literary influence is hard. It's actually hard to overstate. It's really hard.

[Jeff]

Yeah. And there I remember reading, maybe it was a letter before dying in my sophomore year of high school.

[Rebecca]

Ernest Gaines.

[Jeff]

Yes. And there are things that happen on different Sundays that hit at different points in the Christian life, in the calendar.

[Rebecca]

The literature. Literature year. Yeah.

[Jeff]

That if you know about that, or even more contemporary, like Carl Marlantes has talked about, that one of the characters in Matterhorn experiences all of the Christian sacraments, but outside of church context. But there is a scene that is like a baptism. There is a scene, you know, that is like a confession. And if you, like, again, you can totally enjoy the book without that. But if you understand what the author is pulling from, you do get a lot more. So this is also, like, you don't have to care about this. You don't have to care about getting all these references. And then you can stop listening to this episode. Like, we're never going to come to your house and tell you you're a bad reader because you didn't go back and read the Gospels and get the groundwork there. And I think the point you're making is also really interesting. That work that's being written, you won't need as much of a familiarity with this. But for the things that we grew up with, that folks listening to this show think of as classics, it helps a whole lot to. To know what's going on there.

[Rebecca]

All right, so that was sort of both. So I guess it's kind of back to you. Where did you go next?

[Jeff]

Sure.

[Rebecca]

We're going to start diverging here quickly. It may be this one.

[Jeff]

Yeah, mine are. So this is where mine stopped necessarily being in. Just because I didn't make my notes in chronological order. I think it really helps to read the Inferno.

[Rebecca]

I have the Inferno Okay.

[Jeff]

Yeah, yeah. You take the first pitch on that. Since I got to talk about the Bible.

[Rebecca]

Well, I went back and forth because outside of the Odyssey in the Iliad, the rest of them, there's a lot of wiggle room. And this one is too. I want it. Because my next jump is into the 19th century, early 19th century. So, like, I can't skip 2,000 years. I need something. And I was trying to the camera on, like, where am I going to go? I really didn't have a good sense of where I wanted to be. And I've circled around on it. And I think the thing the Inferno gets you is a poetic tradition. For starters, you do get this early Renaissance, late medieval worldview, which is weird and strange and highly into the political world of it. And Dante's sheer force of creative will, like, this is. Our ideas of hell are largely made up because, like, we kind of know them because of Dante. It's like, a little insane when you think about it in those terms. And then he himself is actively thinking about literary inheritance because Virgil, the author of the Aeneid, is his guide through the spirit world. So he's thinking about connectivity into the past. He's playing with, especially coming out of the Torah and the Gospels being my earlier pick, a transition from a really, you know, eminent spirituality to, frankly, a much more secular concerns where, like, the popes he hates are upside down in hell with their feet on fire. Just because he's got, like, my favorite. The Heretics are my favorite, he's really transitioning to. Into a more terrestrial worldview in the literary slash, spiritual space. And really before Dante and for a while after, the combination of the secular and the sacred in literature was very messy. But coming into the Renaissance and after this is where we see it start to diverge. And Dante is right there at the. At the. At the beginning of that fork in the revolution.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I think also of the, like, the old classics, this one has the biggest delta for me of what you expect it to be and what it is.

[Rebecca]

It is Funky Cold Medina. There is some weird stuff in violence.

[Jeff]

It's weird and it's funny. And you probably want to print out a map of the nine circles so you can remember who is where and what they're doing. Like, bless my AP English teacher from my senior year in high school, Anna Lucas, who, may she rest in power, she gave us maps of these, and I took them to college, and I aced that test my first semester of college because I had the thing from senior year of high school, but that's there. There are all these references, again, that, like, you just don't know are from Dante. And also the way that, like, Dante's Inferno or, like, man, that's the ninth circle of Hell gets tossed about in pop culture is really different from what happens in the book itself. But it's just a delight. I mean, I find it to be really entertaining often. Like what Dante is doing with the sort of ironic twists of the punishments people get and how they are tied to the sins that they committed. Dante's personal ranking of how bad Picasso.

[Rebecca]

Is the Italian word for getting exactly what you deserve.

[Jeff]

We love that. We love that. But just a really. I think a really valuable reading experience that will not be the thing that you think you're getting into. I think you kind of know what you're getting when you pick up the Odyssey. But the Inferno was a surprise to me. And everybody should be surprised in that way. It's wonderful.

[Rebecca]

What's next for you?

[Jeff]

Okay, we're just gonna go out of order now. I think you have to read We E. B Du Bois. Wow.

[Rebecca]

Which one? Souls of Black Folk. Reconstruction of.

[Jeff]

I would go with Souls of black Folk. That's where the double consciousness stuff comes in. Right. Like where he writes about the double consciousness that black people in America exist with. It's still relevant today. It is a kind of walking through the world that white people cannot possibly understand. And it's. I think it's really helpful for. If you're trying to do that work of understanding the experiences that other people have. Certainly black people are not the only people who experience a double consciousness. It's a helpful concept to have. And other. Plenty of other things that Du Bois does in Souls of Art.

[Rebecca]

It is. You're right, it is not. I mean, it is important for black people, but when you start to think about. About marginalized people writ larger, multiple identities existing in the same place. This idea that you can have two different worldviews and the person in relative position of power versus those that don't, doesn't have to look as hard because they're not just trying to survive and navigate. It's a powerful idea. Really important one. I love the pick. It's not on mine. I didn't actually consider it, but I can certainly see the case for it. You're never going to hear me slag on a Du Bois pick. So I had that very. Never going to happen. Delighted.

[Jeff]

I felt pretty safe in that whole zone.

[Rebecca]

Yes. It's also an interesting book, too. It's got snippets of gospel songs. And he goes back and forth, one of the more interesting people that have ever existed, and put pen to paper.

[Jeff]

Well, yeah. And I mean, that's another argument for go read the gospels too, that like a lot of the early black writers particularly are drawing on religious references.

[Rebecca]

Mind up next. So next in a timeline, I jump ahead a few hundred years to a contemporary of Shakespeare's. Weirdly, Miguel de Cervantes is Don Quixote.

[Jeff]

I wondered if you would. Don Quixote us.

[Rebecca]

So look, most people have sort of a sense of what the Don Quixote thing is. And so there's a case to be made that if you understand it's a guy who is tilting at windmills and he thinks he's a knight, but he's not. Do you have 47% of it? Yeah, you probably do. But that other 53%, Cervantes own literary invention, the novel as we know it really kind of begins with, well, the camera and like these prose. But like there's this old joke about the Simpsons did it right for cartoon sort of adult animation. Cervantes, because the snow is undriven, gets to just roll around and throw snowballs and do snow angels and then pee in the snow angels and then throw the snowball pee angel ball at people. Like, he is having a grand old time coming out of the tradition of these romantic knight stories that are sort of in the, you know, the late Middle Ages, these romantic stories of knights and dragons and tales, kind of the Arthurian tradition. And the main idea is that this character, Alfonso Quejana, has read so many of those that his mind is addled like he can no longer tell fact from fiction. And he thinks he is this knight errant and he sallies forth into the world to right all wrong. And he tilts at windmills, he mistakes things. He thinks his. This horse stable boy is his squire and this prostitute is his Dulcinea and his horse Rocinante, you know, is actually a mighty steed and he goes out onto the road and has adventures and it gives Cervantes a chance to play and mess with form and mess with the road. And you don't need to read the whole thing. When I taught it, we did selections. You could do selections. I'm sure there's some that are available out there. But then you get like I was telling you off off camera the other day about this sec. There's two parts. The first part was hugely popular. Copyright law hadn't been invented yet and Cervantes published it anonymously, which is ripe for imitators. So other people are publishing Don Quixote stories, but it wasn't Cervantes. So when Don Quixote Part two comes out, what Cervantes does, he has no legal recourse is he has false Don Quixote come into his story and encounter his Don Quixote. And so like metatextual stuff. I'm not sure if it was invented there, but that's my first real like that this is a work of art in the world and it's engaging with itself as art. And the end is very moving. It's very funny. Cervantes is really interesting. It's just. It's amazing. It's a miracle. It's a miracle of a book. And some parts of it, if you read it straight through are really boring. And some parts of it are really amazing and seem like they could be stories today. Interesting way. So I had to put Don Quixote.

[Jeff]

Yeah. You know, this is the one that I am the most mad. I never had to read in school.

[Rebecca]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Like. And I didn't understand until I was out of school that like this is where the novel got invented. So why is this not the first thing.

[Rebecca]

Yeah, I know.

[Jeff]

You have to read.

[Rebecca]

I know. Yeah. Why is it long and it's a little hard to excerpt? Because part of what you need is the range. Like one Don Quixotes story is like just the beginning isn't enough. Like part of it is the. It has an odyssey like quality to it. Right. Where it's going around and these things happen. So I think it's under. It's under as well. The delta between the people who know who Don Quixote is and who have read this is probably bigger than any other literary character.

[Jeff]

Yeah. Like I got the 47% I know about the guys windmills. I'm going to read this someday. But I have spent like 20 years being mad that. And it also has the halo of like, is this a thing you need to read in the context of a class? Like, and maybe not.

[Rebecca]

I think it can. I mean I think all of it can help. That's true for. For certain. I think this is one where you want to read the front matter, the introduction. You want to have a nice scholarly but general purpose. Because it does give you the literary context which. With which he is engaging directly these knight errant romantic stories. So you can know what those tropes are at the same time. Yeah.

[Jeff]

Someday.

[Rebecca]

It's so interesting for me to hear about the modern sort of obsession with tropes. And that, like Don Quixote is like, tropes will make your nuts. It will narrow your worldview. And look what happens if you only understand the world through tropes. And, you know, anyway, that's a different podcast.

[Jeff]

But everything old is new again.

[Rebecca]

The great dawn comes in for me here. All right, what's next for you?

[Jeff]

Yeah, I'm going now for, like, a couple, like, classes of writers. Like, pick one. So I think you need to pick a transcendentalist or, like, a transcendentalist poet. Like, you need to read Self Reliance or Walden or Leaves of Grass. I'm going Leaves of Grass. I think you're probably going Leaves of Grass too. But, like, I also. I love Self Reliance. I also really love Walden and all of those in the way that they get presented in pop culture. Like, pop culture really bastardizes all of those.

[Rebecca]

It does everyone dirty. It's so true. It does everybody dirty. In time. It really does.

[Jeff]

But just go back, Just actually go back and read them. Whitman, I think, probably gets drawn on the most. So in my own arbitrary framework here of what is going to give you the best foundation for picking up references, probably Leaves of Grass and like Song of Myself will. Will ring the bell most effectively. But Self Reliance and Walden are not big investments to make. And if you've seen, like, REI selling fucking T shirts that say, I went to the woods to live simply. That's not what he was talking about.

[Rebecca]

No. Yeah. You know, this is a. I really like that I didn't have a transcendentalist pick on here. I really struggled with what to do. And you could easily convince me, and maybe you just did, to have it on here.

[Jeff]

You know, I'm realizing that, like, some of these are just based on my own best educational experiences. Like, I had a great legitimate.

[Rebecca]

Rebecca. I do. I think it's legit.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I think so, too. But I just. I'm just putting it together right now. Like, I had an incredible 11th grade English teacher who loved the Transcendentalists and really made it come alive. And that's like, I've been thinking about these books for 25 years because of that.

[Rebecca]

Yeah. Again, you'll hear how my list unfolds, but that I didn't have a spot there, unfortunately. I mean, if I go to 13, I'm sure I'm looking at that. I skip ahead from Don Quixote.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Rebecca]

To Pride and Prejudice. I think the. The popularization of the novel as a form and the introduction of women into the popular literary writing of the Day that really didn't exist before Austen. You had Sappho's and some other people that made but like Austen and this, you know, Romney talks about in the Jane Austen's bookshelf and there was she. Austen also can stand for a whole host of women writing that were at this time as the novel was thought of as a lesser form. And you know, we're still doing lyric poetry and Shelley and Yates and still doing Latin and Greek stuff. There was space in the literary marketplace and what turned out to be a place in the canon for women's voices and Pride and Prejudice, you know it's one people know Darcy and Elizabeth Bennet and some of that stuff is out there. And I think I was like, pick an Austin. I was like, no, I think if you're like I've read Austin, but I've read Sense and Sensibility, that's fine. But Pride and Prejudice is the one that people know. I think it is the most accomplished. My personal favorite. I also think the framing, the story, the sensibility of being a domestic drama for the stake for these sort of upper middle class women for the day they're rich and they had servants, they were landed gentry. But this is a war novel in this regard which is their livelihood depends on the marriages happening. And so when I used to teach this I would sometimes get a. Well, this is about marriage. This is just a marriage choice. Like for these women, this was their life. If they didn't marry well, they were going to end up in Punery or being a governess or who knows going to happen to them. And it's essential here and it reads great and it's out there and it gets referenced all the time. And so many of our. It's interesting these are romances like Don Quixote and Pride and Prejudice in their way are the romances with different capitals ours. But like we're still sort of. We're still sort of holding on to the waistcoats of the Austen characters in so many ways in our understanding of. Of what a romantic story really is. This is a rom com. It is with stakes that are high. It's terrific. It holds up greatly. I think it's always a surprise that people and maybe if I hope it's still true when they actually encounter it. It's like this is. There's more to this than I thought. Even on the lang, even on the sentence level. There's more than people.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I didn't go with Austin. I think this is just a blind spot due to my own personal Bias.

[Rebecca]

Yeah, no, that's.

[Jeff]

I don't. Super love Austin. If I had an 11th, I would have put Jane Eyre, like, I think the archetype of the mad woman in the Attic. And then if you want to get fancy and go to White Sargasso Sea after that, you can do that, but much more contemporary. But so many things refer back to Bertha in the Attic. And if you like, if you bump into a literary character today who is named Bertha, you better check. Are we sure?

[Rebecca]

Are we sure?

[Jeff]

Are we sure this is not a Jane Eyre reference? It's probably a Jane Eyre reference. Like, you at least want it to put pause and. And linger on that. But I think you're absolutely right about Jane Austen. And now we're just in the land of my personal bias. Not putting her on here. Let's see who's closer. Coming off the Transcendentalists. Emily Dickinson.

[Rebecca]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

I think you got to read some Emily Dickinson.

[Rebecca]

I think you're pretty stacked if you have her and your Transcendentalist. That's my own feedback.

[Jeff]

Yes. Yeah, but, like, she's. She's writing around the same time, but she is not writing what they are writing. Yeah.

[Rebecca]

And in some ways, 80 miles, but yeah. She's around liter.

[Jeff]

Yeah. Geographically around, spiritually around. No. Also super misunderstood in her time. And reading Emily Dickinson through what we understand now about her as a woman who. Like, when I took. So when I learned about Emily Dickinson in high school, it was like, Emily Dickinson is sitting alone, you know, wearing her flowing nightgown.

[Rebecca]

She's birthed in a lot of ways.

[Jeff]

A lot of ways. Yeah. Like, she's tapping her toe to the rhythm of, like, the hymns that she grew up listening to, and she's writing these poems, and she's just alone and depressed. Depressed and had, you know, mental illness. And those are parts of the truth, but certainly not the whole truth. And what we know of her now and that she had this, like, really rich relationship with her best friend sue, you know, that. That that's who she's writing to. It's not. This is not imagined longing in a lot of her work. This is very real about that. That relationship and the perceived impossibility of it ever being something concrete and public, but also the complicated family dynamics that she was experie. Like, just super misunderstood and well worth reading. And also, I think I want, like, justice for Emily Dickinson. Like, misquoted. Among the most misquoted list.

[Rebecca]

You don't have to tell me you're preaching.

[Jeff]

I know.

[Rebecca]

I mean, come on.

[Jeff]

Like, maybe that was just Jeff Fodder. I'm just tossing you.

[Rebecca]

Yeah, you're just baiting me. Your hope is the thing with feathers. Baiting me.

[Jeff]

I am.

[Rebecca]

I love Dickinson. The thing that's weird about Dickinson, and I considered her greatly my case. That affirms yours and also explains my mission is she's so singular. Like, I mean, that's. I think that's the other thing. And like, I know poets really like it, but it does. She. I think one of the reasons the image of her is sort of the weirdo spinster in the attic thing is because it. That actually makes it easier for us to understand her than she was actually more normal. Like, it's almost. It's harder to understand Shakespeare that he was just a guy who was really good at that, that it's almost easier for us to understand. He's like 14 different people. Right. Like, you know, it's like Dickinson's singularity makes her a little hard to understand. She's like a black hole. But she is. She's remarkable. And you will get no shade from me for Dickinson picks at all. Where am I going next? Oh, I wanted a Russian, big Russian novel, so I picked Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky, which I think is.

[Jeff]

The one I had, too.

[Rebecca]

You have this on your list for real?

[Jeff]

Yeah, I had Crime and Punishment. I wavered between this and Anna Karenina because I'm not going to make you read War and Peace.

[Rebecca]

Well, I think War and Peace is the one. It's kind of like you get to zig. Where the people are zagging because War and Peace has become a totem. Like, it's become an item because it's just so huge. Right. Whereas an idea piece. I think Anachronica is more fun to read, but I think Crime and Punishment is much more interesting. There's a lot more philosophy and, you know, especially if you've done your reading of the Torah and the Torah in the Gospels. There's a lot of Christianity stuff and guilt and politics and morality and modernity. Like, it's pretty wild. And not for nothing a pulse pounder throughout most of the book, too. So it ticks so many boxes. I think of the chunky classics. If you're looking to get someone who. To get their brain and heart going at the same time, I think have a harder. I think have a hard time beating Crime and Crime and Punishment. I really do.

[Jeff]

That's a great pitch for that. It's one of my favorites and also so relevant right now, I think, especially politically where you hear people making the argument that, like I'm a great man and so it doesn't matter how bad the things I do are because my greatness justifies all of my sins. Straight out of Dostoevsky. Not exactly what he was going for there, but straight out of it. And there is something expansive and helpful for having perspective on. Like this is tale as old as time. This is not a new concept. People, men have been justifying this kind of behavior or various shades of bad behavior with I am great and my greatness will be worth it forever. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything.

[Rebecca]

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[Jeff]

Did you? To that end. What didn't you. Did you think about Machiavelli?

[Rebecca]

I think so. The Prince. I think it's tough because that can veer into like a philosophical tradition. I kept mine to be pretty literary like mine are.

[Jeff]

I didn't go. I didn't go there either.

[Rebecca]

It's like again, it's the big bang. It's everything in one.

[Jeff]

Yeah, but I thought about it because also misunderstood and misquoted like Machiavellian gets tossed around by people that have no idea what they're saying when they say Machiavellian.

[Rebecca]

Yeah. I mean, I certainly would entertain a case for it to consider it, but for my purposes, I was pretty strict to literature itself. You know, poetry, prose.

[Jeff]

Okay, so Crime and Punishment. We both had that one. I think you need to pick a Harlem Renaissance writer. Langston Hughes. Zora Neale Hurston. You should read all of them forever. But if you're doing your survey course, you pick one. And I'm a weenie who doesn't want to make a choice, so I'm just gonna say, pick one.

[Rebecca]

I'll do it for you. Because I had Their eyes were watching God, I think, okay. I mean, I love Langston Hughes. I like Dorothea West. I like Claude. Like, I like all these people, but their eyes were watching God is Assigned. I think we looked at this like it's on more syllabuses than any other for high school English classes. And I think it stands. It gets you a lot of Harlem Renaissance stuff, but it's actually written after it, like in 1936. And it's also not set in Harlem. It also picks up a lot of modernity for you. It does a lot of the modernity and sort of late 19th century, you know, Reconstruction in the south and the politics of slavery. Like, I. I hate to. Well, I don't hate to say this. I don't want to oversimplify, but I think over the last 15 years, it really has emerged as the one we will remember from the. Of the Harlem Renaissance author of which Zora, of course, is one of the leading, if not the leading light. This is the book that's going to be around because Langston Hughes are like, what do you.

[Jeff]

I'm not going to fight you.

[Rebecca]

Weary Blues like a collection of poetry. Like people like his. His memoir, the Big Sea. It's a tough one of short stories. Like, there's not a. The nice thing about this is a.

[Jeff]

There's not a signal word.

[Rebecca]

Yeah, there's. This one is. It's a readable, complicated, but comprehensible novel. And it's not very long.

[Jeff]

You know what? I'll co. Sign that reads or just go straight for Zora Neale Hurston.

[Rebecca]

And I think a lot of what she does there. One of the reasons I felt okay living leaving Huck Finn off or not okay. But I did in and I use their eyes for watching God. There's a lot of the journey Flood River. Like, there's a lot of the. The on the road kind of trope. Not tropes. References. And callbacks that Twain himself is working with. And I don't think Zerston Hurston has an explicit connection to Twain. But I think a lot of things you like about Twain we can pick up in Hurston. And I think there's complexity there that's worth having as well.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I agree. I left Twain off my list mainly because 10 is so few. And also those books are. You can get a lot from reading them, but you can also get a lot from their Wikipedia pages that will still serve you in going forth. We were telling folks, you don't even need to go back and read Huck Finn when you're gonna read James. That's made its way pretty accurately into popular consciousness, what Huck Finn is about.

[Rebecca]

Yeah, I have three American picks on my list, so their eyes were one. I got to go back in time. It's a hundred years. I also like it, but I think the Great Gatsby, I just think that one you get straight up modernism, Roaring twenties, you can pick up in European modernism too. But you get the Fitzgerald. You get the sense of New York. It is defined time in American culture. And I also think there's another one that gets done dirty even with.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I totally agree.

[Rebecca]

And I think there's so many references to really ushers in the literary novel as we know it, frankly.

[Jeff]

And it's pretty short.

[Rebecca]

It's. It reads great in the sentence level stuff, Rebecca. It holds up like it does. It's. Now we. I don't want to make the case that it's underrated, but it's terrific. It's easy not to like it. Like, it's easy not to like everything. And I think a testament to its inclusion here is that it's almost an intellectual pose to be like, I don't like the Great Gatsby. And that's. That's an argument for its inclusion more than anything else I can say about it.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I was. I got stuck on should I do Gatsby or should I do a Hemmingway? And so I just didn't pick either of them. But I also hoped that you would have this like, so that we could have it in our total, you know, in our collective list. I co sign all of that. Gatsby is Definitely worth reading. 100 Years of Solitude is my next pick. Yeah, foundational magical realism, you gotta know. And like other little subtle things that get pulled forward in contemporary literature. But if you're talking about magic realism or you're talking about surrealism and you haven't read Garcia Marquez, you're missing something. You might not be doing it wrong, but there is something incomplete about that literary experience. And it is also just kind of singular and mind blowing if you read it at the right time. Like, if you've not already read a lot of this kind of literature and dead grandma just shows up at dinner and everyone's like, this is normal.

[Rebecca]

I wonder if that thing is kind of like, I wonder if it has a Pulp Fiction effect where if you haven't read it, but you've read speculative literary fiction subsequently, like, oh yeah, I know what this is.

[Jeff]

Right. Like Pulp Fiction's not nearly as shocking today as it was when it first came out. Maybe, but I still think it's worth going back.

[Rebecca]

Oh, no, that's not a discredit. That's more of a credit.

[Jeff]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I know you're not putting anybody off of this book, but I think, like, almost no one is as good as he was to at just dropping readers right into the middle. Like, you're just in a scene, you just pop it. Like you just start in the middle of something. You don't necessarily know where you are. He's going to make you work a little bit to find your footing and understand what's happening. Things are going to get weird. It's definitely going to be worth the payoff, like hanging with it. And I didn't read him in school, so my first experience of Garcia Marquez was like, just kind of figuring it out on my own. I think it was like right after college.

[Rebecca]

I think a lot of. A lot of us did it that way because it wasn't taught like in our Western civ courses or something else. But it was on Barnes and Noble tables.

[Jeff]

But for. Yeah, for how popular these ideas are and that kind of imagery is in fiction now. I just think very helpful to go back.

[Rebecca]

Yeah, this is where my cheat enters in. I wanted a 20th century sort of global master. So I have like pick Marquez, Chinua Chebe or Kazuishu Guru. Pick one, read something by them just to give some global contemporariness. You know, things fall apart Never let me go. I think you do love in the Time of Cholera or One Hundred Years of Solitude. I think there's a couple you can pick from either. But I really wanted sort of a global contemporary piece as the canon has not enough, but slowly diversifies and globalized, especially to non English speaking. And Ishiguro is an edge case and I understand that. But like, those edge cases are super interesting to me and I think they're Interesting to a reading life in a sense of what's available out there. So pick one of those. I don't particularly care which one. I like them all. They're going to. They're not the same. I don't want to say they're all the same. But this sensibility of like what's going on in global literature even amongst the brightest lights. Like we're top 10 here. So we're picking from the very. The best known Nobel winning or at least in the candidacy for Nobels every single year. I think you should have one of these under your belt.

[Jeff]

Yeah, that was the framework for my last one because this is my 10th. Is to pick either an Ishiguru or a Morrison through the lens of like pretty contemporary Nobel. The case for Morrison, sort of. I mean the case for both of them makes itself. But the case for Morrison is best novelist of. The best American novelist of the 20th century. Like Mic Drop, do the Bluest Eye or do Sula or Go Big and do Beloved, but take a deep breath path first. And I think if you're going Ishiguru, you. You start with either Remains of the Day or Never Let Me. Never Let Me Go. Yeah, yeah.

[Rebecca]

My last one, I just have Morrison. I was like. And again, this is where the closer you get to us in time, the more specific will be. I think if you are an American, a US citizen or you a US based person and you care about this and you're interested in this conversation at all and you haven't read a Toni Morrison, then that's probably your biggest hole in your reading life.

[Jeff]

Yeah. And Beloved. Beloved gets a lot of reference in contemporary black writing that can be helpful. The imagery of Beloved is frequently referred to, but there are also just phrases from some of the earlier novels that would be helpful to have picked up also. You'll be so glad you did.

[Rebecca]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Like don't do them all in one summer. No, I can tell you that's a lot.

[Rebecca]

But yeah, I think that's. That's as contemporary as I got. Because really we're talking about novel. You know, she published novels 15 years ago. It's not that far away.

[Jeff]

Right.

[Rebecca]

I thought about some troika of like Everett Whitehead, Smith or Egan, like trying to get like a pick from a real contemporary working writer. I just had a hard time limiting it to like three or four because otherwise I pick one of these 10, like what am I doing?

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Rebecca]

But I think implicit in this is you have some engagement with. Of contemporary literature. Like just whatever. You just have Some engagement with it.

[Jeff]

But yeah, I stuck to the classics framing and I let myself go to Beloved as a classic because it is. It's canonical at this point.

[Rebecca]

Well, it's almost 40 years old.

[Jeff]

Syllabi. Right. It's old enough that we can think of it as a classic. But if we're doing this again in like 30 years, Whitehead is going on there. Like, I thought about a Steinbeck. I thought about all Faulkner. Yeah.

[Rebecca]

I thought about catch 22.

[Jeff]

I thought about Catcher in the Ride.

[Rebecca]

I mean, Cat. I mean, there's so many. There's so many places you could go. I mean, I'm. Yeah, I'm certainly. I don't think I have one English person in the form of Jane Austen. I mean, I guess Shakespeare we took off the board. But I don't have a Dickens. You know, I don't have Thackeray. Like, there's so many. You could go with their.

[Jeff]

I thought about Tennessee Williams.

[Rebecca]

Yeah. I mean, outside of Shakespeare, I don't have a playwright. You know, you could do Arthur Miller and all kinds of people. I think Mrs. Dalloway was the last off my board. Gatsby is doing a lot of work for me, for modernism, let's just put it that way. And it's. It pains me as being who I am and what I know. 10 is even very hard. Yeah.

[Jeff]

Even with the like. Even with the like. Pick a transcendentalist pick among these three of whatever. 10 is just even 10 categories is really tough.

[Rebecca]

Fun game. Hard and difficult. But constraints can make wriggling out of the straitjacket feel satisfying. If you can manage to get a latch or two undone, I'm.

[Jeff]

I'll be really curious about the wheelhouse members takes on. Like, if you. If you disagree here, what are you swapping? Like, you don't just get to add. We had to be constrained. So you have to be constrained. But you can swap the Odyssey for something else. You could, you know, or any of our picks for something else. But I want to know what you're taking off.

[Rebecca]

If you haven't read something on Maya Rebecca's list, you can't swap it out because you don't know.

[Jeff]

Right. Okay.

[Rebecca]

No, I mean. I mean, just like you might be right, but like, if you haven't read Don Quixote, I think you could make an argument to swapping it. But you don't. If you don't know the replacement value of the thing, you're you. You can't argue for it. You care enough now if you're arguing from Sort of mind share. Like this is more famous. I'll probably believe you. But I don't know that fame necessarily lines up with what I'm trying. Well, at least what I'm trying to do with my list. Because if you've read this, if you've read my 10+Shakespeare, you probably didn't catch them all in school. And so if you've managed to read these 11, that means you're doing some of this reading on your own time. And I think reading books like this on your own time and the pool of the books like this could be 500 it to be honest. I think that's actually what to me defines someone who's well read, if that makes sense.

[Jeff]

Yes. Yeah. A curiosity and interest in these foundational kinds of ideas and a willingness. Yeah. To go back and do the work on your own. Yeah.

[Rebecca]

Interesting.

[Jeff]

And we have so many resources now. Like, reading the Inferno doesn't have to just mean sitting alone in your armchair in your living room with it. You can. There are so many things you can Google. You can download yourself a map of Dante's hell, you can tap into other people's.

[Rebecca]

You can get a concordance or anything for any of these, or short courses and podcasts and everything, supplementary materials. I think the other thing that from an attitudinal point of view is that you're willing to. You're interested in doing this work on your own, outside of the classroom or whatever, and that can include a book club like that's doing on your own. That's just giving yourself structure. That's fine. Is that you also are engaging with them on some other vector other than I liked or didn't like it like that certainly part of your reading experience. But that is not the predominant way you leave one of these texts is you're done and saying, I didn't really like the Inferno. I mean, that's well within your readings. That's well within your right to do, of course. But when I think of someone who's well read, I think they have the capacity, interest and possibly desire to have that be a secondary or tertiary concern rather than a primary one.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it. And like, again, I guess to repeat sort of what we talked about at the top, that you also don't have to care about this. Like you can love. You can love books and not give a flying fatoutie about the idea of being well read or hours definitions of being well read. You can just want to have fun with your books. And that is a valid way to go through your reading life. Like, neither of us intends to say this is something that everyone should care about, but if. If it is something that you care about, I think that that spirit of willingness to engage with work like this because. And. And to try to understand what its value is, like, why is this considered canonical, even if I think it's terrible? What influence has it had on work that came after it? Like, that's the stuff that makes you a better reader. Like, well, read is kind of code for you are good at reading in some specific definition. And that's. Can you read into a text? Can you figure out what the author is referring to, what they're drawing on, what they're trying to accomplish? And there's so many other ways to engage with books and reading. But if well read is the. The is the thing you're going for or a thing you're going for. Like, it's not always the thing I'm going for when I pick up a book. Not at all there, you know, But I think that we do. Reading widely in itself does not well, read make. There's a. An attitude or an approach.

[Rebecca]

And I think as much as you and I and Book Riot itself has been an advocate for. There's a lot of ways to be a reader, and there's all kinds of reading that's valuable. Sometimes lost in that discourse is that this kind of reading is different. Like, different kinds of reading are different. And that's not to put them in hierarchy by any stretch of the imagination. But I do want to hold. I do want to hold the truth that I feel that this kind of reading is different than other kinds of readings. And there's multiple readings, and they're different, and they can do different things, and they are differently valuable and for different people in different times. But I don't want to. I don't want to lump all reading into the same bucket by any stretch of the imagination. I think the bucket is a good one. But just because it's all called reading, I do think they can do different things. And it's up to each individual reader to decide how they want to participate with it.

[Jeff]

Yeah. And I think most of the time, most of us are reaching for different kinds of reading at different points. There is. I want to sit here with a pen in my hand and really work through something that's challenging. And then there's. I want to take a ROM com and sit on the beach, and the. Those both have their place.

[Rebecca]

Yeah. Yeah. All right. This was fun. Rebecca makes me want to go.

[Jeff]

Yeah, this was a good time.

[Rebecca]

Crack my Norton anthologies open or my.

[Jeff]

My you said concordance and I like something in me tingled.

[Rebecca]

This is a good time. Yeah, shoot us. Email podcastride.com or I guess this is a Patreon only, so if you're listening to this, you. Yeah, by nature you can leave a comment comment on the Patreon there. All right, Rebecca, we'll talk to you.

[Jeff]

Thanks, folks.