Book Riot – The Podcast
Episode: “We Need a Book Review Revolution”
Hosts: Jeff O’Neal & Rebecca Schinsky
Date: August 18, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into the evolving landscape of book reviews and criticism in the publishing industry. Jeff and Rebecca start by reflecting on their personal summer media indulgences and family moments before turning to critical industry news: the Associated Press discontinuing weekly book reviews, the slow demise of traditional criticism, and what a “book review revolution” might actually look like. They discuss the broader implications on reading culture, delve into current news like censorship legal battles, highlight literary protests, and review the latest in book releases, all woven with their signature warmth, humor, and thoughtfulness.
1. Summer Transitions and Media Diets
00:52–07:56
- Both hosts chat about the spiritual “dog days” of August and anticipation of fall publishing.
- Jeff shares family media moments: introducing his kids to classic films like Dead Poets Society and When Harry Met Sally.
- “If you’ve never heard ‘I’ll have what she’s having’ for the first time… it’s incredible. It’s really, really fun.” – Jeff (04:32)
- Rebecca looks forward to fall releases, notably Katabas, “the big book of the summer—maybe the novel of the year.” (02:22)
- Chat about how quotable movies, particularly When Harry Met Sally, become touchstones in their lives.
- Notable: Jeff touts the “law firm of that’s mine, this is yours” for sorting friends’ relationship drama. (05:03)
- Michelle and Jeff’s media lexicon includes Wonder Boys and recent excitement over Chicago the musical.
2. Book Industry Realities: So Many Books, So Little Attention
07:56–13:14
- Jeff describes curating “deals, deals, deals” for Patreon, overwhelmed at the “deal blindness” that sets in from sheer volume.
- Reflects on Charlotte Shane’s essay about the vulnerability of releasing a book and “how a lot of the time, maybe most of the time for most books kind of nothing happens right that first week.” (08:25)
- Publishing's tough truth: “The baseline expectation for any book is that very little happens with it and that it will be forgotten.” – Rebecca (10:23)
- Most books—hit or not—fade fast from collective memory.
- Success can be “literally just for you and people you haven’t met or, you know, scattered in cells of one all over the country.” – Jeff (09:54)
- Takeaway: Authors should be motivated by intrinsic reasons, not external validation.
- “If the reason...is for that external validation...that is going to make your road a lot more difficult.” – Rebecca (10:23)
3. The Decline of Traditional Book Reviews
16:46–29:19
AP Discontinues Weekly Book Reviews
16:46–18:17
- The Associated Press announces it will no longer run regular book reviews.
- Jeff notes the tragic irony: “Probably no one will notice that this happened. Or to a first approximation there may be some hardcore readers…but probably they didn’t matter.” (17:56)
A Broader Trend: Fading Cultural Criticism
18:17–24:40
- Rebecca recaps the painful economics: “Paying for book reviews is not cheap…you’re asking someone to do five to ten hours of reading labor plus analysis plus writing.” (18:17)
- Digital data now makes it easy to cut what's no longer ROI-positive.
- “We actually know which content people are engaging with.” – Rebecca (18:17)
- Book Riot shifted from traditional reviews to lists and recommendations years ago due to lack of reader interest.
- Loss of reviews contributes to a flattening of conversation: “That flattening of the conversation is connected to this decrease in criticism and a resistance...if you critique a book…it’s seen as being mean to the author...a lack of nuanced thinking.” – Rebecca (19:18)
Can Book Review Culture Evolve—Or Reboot?
21:27–29:19
- Jeff is hopeful for a “yet-undiscovered country” — a new form of book review that is “fun, interesting to read on its own for a regular reader,” possibly engaging, voiced, and less formal.
- “A way of writing about a single book that is different than the review as has existed. Now that would be fun, interesting to read on its own...” (21:27)
- Rebecca points out that some critical voices already inject more personality: “Much more of our critics’ voices and personal takes in reviews today than there used to be.” (23:38)
- Both agree the old days of “making a book with a review” are gone, replaced by evolving forms: “The medium has so enveloped the message that people haven’t really thought about could we do something else.” – Jeff (29:19)
- Book attention now flows to celebrity book clubs, Goodreads, social video, and more.
- Memorable Quote: “If you told me two weeks ago, ‘Hey Jeff, does the AP write and commission weekly book reviews?’ I would be like, I don’t know. And that might be as telling as anything, honestly.” (29:12)
4. Book Bans and Legal Battles
30:41–36:04
- A major Florida court ruling strikes down House Bill 1069 (2023), which had been responsible for broad book removals, especially around LGBTQ+ topics.
- “This means that the thousands of books…should be returned to shelves immediately. A complete knockout.” – Jeff quoting plaintiffs’ attorney (31:57)
- Rebecca notes: “We haven’t yet seen [a book ban case] go to the [Supreme] court that was actually just about the content of the books…” (32:03)
- Legal context: “The Miller Test” — obscenity can’t be judged by pulling isolated content from context; the whole work must be considered.
- Jeff extends this thought to human behavior: “Maybe the Miller test for our lives is not the worst idea in the world.” (35:19)
- Rebecca ties it to social psychology’s “fundamental attribution error.” (35:19)
5. Industry Tidbits & News
37:52–46:04
Canopy and Alternative Media Distribution
37:52–43:56
- Notable development: Charlie Kaufman’s new short film to debut exclusively via Kanopy (library streaming platform).
- Rebecca spots a shift: Is Kanopy moving into original and exclusive content?
- “If they are doing that, then why…are those just two cases or is Canopy getting into…distribution?” (39:33)
- Jeff speculates this could be a sign of arts funding shifting venues: “A glimmer on the horizon…is there a world in which Rick Steves cuts an interesting deal with Kanopy?” (41:12)
- Discussion about whether library platforms (e.g. Libby, Kanopy) could commission original works in the future.
Literary Activism: Polari Prize Protest
46:04–49:05
- Mass withdrawal of authors from the UK’s Polari Prize in protest of nominated author John Boyne’s trans-exclusionary stances.
- Rebecca notes: “Voluntarily giving those up on principle is really admirable…” (47:22)
- This coordinated move saps the award’s meaning and forces a reckoning for organizers.
Wild Adaptation: Emerald Fennell’s Jane Eyre
49:05–51:32
- Early reviews describe the new adaptation as explicit and boundary-pushing.
- “If this was a new book, you know, the first adaptation of a modern classic, maybe I would feel differently about it. But it’s sort of beyond, beyond.” – Jeff (51:09)
- Rebecca: “This makes me personally like 500% more interested in watching a Jane Eyre adaptation.” (51:19)
6. Frontlist Foyer: Recent Reads & Recommendations
52:32–66:44
People Like Us by Jason Mott
52:32–55:44
- Rebecca reviews Mott’s latest: “Was not left absolutely breathless and utterly filled with joy for life as this publisher’s blurb promised I would be…but it was great.” (52:33)
- “He tells her that his name is Ta-Nehisi Coates. And later on he gets recognized as Colson Whitehead and…signs a bunch of autographs. This fraternity…I 100% believe exists in real life of black authors who don’t look anything alike but are frequently mistaken for each other.” (54:29)
- Explores gun violence, American vs. European experience, with humor and metafictional touches.
- “I enjoyed it a lot more than I would have enjoyed a more straight-ahead novel that was like ‘this is a novel about guns in America.’ Very good.” – Rebecca (55:24)
It’s Only Drowning by David Litt
57:16–59:03
- Jeff recommends this memoir about taking up surfing post-COVID, by a former Obama speechwriter.
- “A middle aged man who could stand to lose a few in the wetsuit trying to learn isn’t inherently comedic and all too relatable.” (58:30)
- Blends humor, escape, and relationship dynamics in the culture wars.
Great Black Hope by Rob Franklin
60:46–64:20
- Jeff and Rebecca both discuss enjoying its “vibe-based” storytelling and cultural acuteness, despite “debut novel problems” of bolted-on plots.
- “Dwelling in the spaces that Franklin creates with this character…the vibe of the…book.” – Rebecca (63:50)
- “Think Gatsby comparisons…being young, being in these parties and searching, trying to figure out what it’s all about…It’s a wonderful New York book.” – Jeff (62:00)
Vocabulary Corner!
65:15–66:44
- Jeff launches “Jess Vocabulary Corner” after encountering “swart,” meaning naturally having skin of a dark color.
- A moment of literary joy for learning new words in context.
- “Thank you, Rob Franklin, for giving me an occasion to break out the vocabulary.” (66:29)
7. Looking Ahead: Fall Preview Season
67:21–68:20
- Excitement for fall’s lineup: Saunders, Lauren Groff, Lockwood, Brown, Rushdie, Zadie Smith.
- “I find it to be an extremely exciting fall.” – Jeff (67:54)
- Rebecca: “I’m extremely excited about a few things, but currently I’m very excited about January. Lauren Groff and Saunders is a tough lineup to beat.” (68:09)
Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments
- “The baseline expectation for any book is that very little happens with it and that it will be forgotten.” – Rebecca (10:23)
- “Paying for book reviews is not cheap…you’re asking someone to do five to 10 hours of reading labor plus analysis plus writing.” – Rebecca (18:17)
- “This nostalgia for the days when everyone would read the book review feels really false to me…everyone probably still outliers of outliers that you could make a book with a review. But that was still a relatively rare case.” – Rebecca (28:15)
- “Maybe the Miller test for our lives is not the worst idea in the world.” – Jeff (35:19)
- “Voluntarily giving those up on principle is really admirable…” – Rebecca (47:22)
- “A big, fun, rompy, deep-diving Katabasis I think could work…” – Jeff (23:08)
- “The thing that really struck me was this kind of a deal as a glimmer on the horizon of a maybe of a silver lining of a cloud that hasn't…formed of…funding for the kinds of things that someone who subscribes to Kanopy in the library might like.” – Jeff (41:12)
Key Timestamps for Important Segments
- 02:22 — Late summer, fall anticipation, and Katabas excitement
- 07:56 — Book deals overwhelm & realities of book publishing attention
- 10:23 — On intrinsic motivation for authors & the odds of lasting attention
- 16:46 — AP ends weekly book reviews; context for the decline of criticism
- 21:27 — Reimagining the book review: what could a new model look like?
- 30:41 — Florida book ban law struck down; legal nuances explained
- 37:52 — Kanopy’s move into original/exclusive content (Charlie Kaufman short film)
- 46:04 — Polari Prize protest and mass author withdrawal
- 49:05 — Wild Jane Eyre adaptation discourse
- 52:32 — Frontlist Foyer: People Like Us, It’s Only Drowning, Great Black Hope
- 65:15 — Vocabulary Corner debut!
- 67:21 — Fall 2025 preview and upcoming literary excitement
Summary Tone and Takeaway
Jeff and Rebecca blend cynicism and hope as they chronicle the waning influence—and potential rebirth—of book criticism. Their conversation isn’t just industry gossip; they probe deeper structural issues, challenge nostalgia, advocate for more creative approaches to book talk, and highlight both serious news and literary delights. The tone is conversational, wry, and full of affectionate ribbing, but always returns to core values: criticism matters, reading needs context, and the literary world is at its best when it's playful, inclusive, and self-aware.