Podcast Summary: Book Riot - The Podcast

Episode: "What is Magical Realism?"

Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Jeff O’Neal, Rebecca Schinsky
Guest: Vanessa Diaz (Managing Editor)

Overview

This episode is a deep dive into magical realism—its origins, definitions, boundaries, and contentious use in literature and publishing—led by Vanessa Diaz. Drawing on Latin American literary history, iconic authors, and current debates, the hosts untangle why so many works are labeled "magical realism," who gets to use the term, and the political, historical, and literary dynamics that shape it.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Magical Realism (02:03, 15:21)

• Basic Definition:
  A literary style in which supernatural elements are presented as mundane—"the supernatural as mundane" (15:21)—within a largely realistic world.
  • Quote:

    "A story that's grounded in reality where, like, this one not real thing happens that everybody just sort of accepts as being normal." – Vanessa Diaz (04:04)

• Classic Example:
  • "Your dead grandma shows up to dinner and it’s normal." – Rebecca Schinsky (04:40)
• Contrasted with genres where supernatural events prompt shock, fear, or a break from reality.

2. Origins and Historical Context (06:16, 15:21)

• Term Origins:
  • Coined by German art critic Franz Roh in the 1920s for art; in literature, firmly tied to the 1960s Latin American literary boom.
• Political Roots:
  • Magical realism’s rise is inextricably linked with grappling with postcolonial identity, independence, and social critique in Latin America.
  • Quote:

    "It uses the fictional setting of Macondo as this allegory for Latin America as a whole, to explore a lot of the themes that I brought up earlier. Right. Themes of identity politics, of people, but also family dynamics as they pertain to the entire region." – Vanessa Diaz (17:57)

3. Genre Blurriness and Debates (06:06, 25:31, 26:44)

• Blurry Boundaries:
  • Many works categorized as magical realism could also fit surrealism, fabulism, speculative fiction, or alternate history.
  • Quote:

    "I think that's where it can get so blurry, and people want to slap the label magical realism on all kinds of books... but is it really doing that socio-political work?" – Jeff O’Neal (24:39)

• Surrealism vs. Fabulism vs. Magical Realism:
  • Surrealism: Focus on internal, dreamlike workings of the mind.
  • Fabulism: Uses fables and myths in modern reality.
  • Magical Realism: Primarily outward, concerned with society/politics, supernatural elements are part of the realistic fabric (25:31).

4. Who Gets to Use the Term? (26:44, 32:03, 36:16)

• Contested Label:
  • There's debate about whether only Latin American (or at least non-white, non-western) writers can be described as writing magical realism, or if the form transcends origin.
  • Quote:

    "I remember a moment on the literary Internet where the instruction seemed to be if it's not by a Latine writer, it can't be magical realism... But that seems to me to not be accurate to the form of art or like the spirit of the definition." – Rebecca Schinsky (26:44)

• Authorial Intent vs. Critical Context:
  • Authors like Silvia Moreno-Garcia push back when their non-magical-realist works are labeled as such, arguing it's become an overly broad brush for Latin American writers (36:16).

5. Publishing, Sales, and Category Disputes (41:40)

• Sales Impact:
  • Publishers sometimes use "magical realism" as a catch-all for Latin American or whimsical works, often disregarding author intent or tradition, leading to reader confusion and genre dilution.

6. Reader and Author Experience (49:44, 50:41)

• How it Feels to Read:
  • For many, “magical realism” signals an unsettling-yet-accepting atmosphere in which the miraculous is woven into daily life.
  • Quote:

    "I just wonder if that's part of how it's... become so broad, that you feel a certain way when the dead grandma shows up... there's a certain, like, unsettledness about it." – Rebecca Schinsky (49:44)

• Why Use the Term:
  • The "magic" isn't for spectacle, but to unlock deeper commentary on history, identity, or trauma (50:41).

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Definition War:
  • "The messiness is useful... you should acknowledge the same point that there was a locus of origin. Right. And there was a reason and a history behind those terms." – Jeff O’Neal (27:59)
• On the Mundanity of the Supernatural:
  • "That supernatural as mundane key. It feels very helpful now for unlocking this." – Rebecca Schinsky (22:11)
• Humor:
  • "Quails of Hornitude!" – Rebecca Schinsky, reacting to the legendary scene in Like Water for Chocolate (16:59)
• On Genre Blurring:
  • "The temptation, when you can bring the speculative into every day is then it's just about that. It doesn't have to be about something else. What the magical realist tradition... is, it's actually a way to talk about something that they couldn't figure out a different way to talk about." – Jeff O’Neal (51:55)

Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:52–02:00: Setup for magical realism episode and hosts’ prior knowledge
• 02:19–04:53: Shared definitions and first impressions from hosts
• 06:16–09:46: Brief history of the Latin American label and postcolonial context
• 15:21–18:38: Detailed illustration of the form and key examples
• 20:10–22:57: How supernatural mundanity distinguishes magical realism from fantasy
• 25:31–26:44: Surrealism, fabulism, and genre distinctions
• 26:44–32:27: Debate about who "owns" magical realism and how inclusive the label should be
• 36:16–42:30: Backlash against the over-assignment of the term, especially for sales
• 49:44–52:28: Reader response—how magical realism "feels" vs. what it “means”
• 53:14–56:16: Vanessa’s recommended classic and contemporary magical realism titles

Notable Works & Authors Discussed

• Classics:
  • One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel García Márquez
  • Like Water for Chocolate by Laura Esquivel
  • The House of the Spirits by Isabel Allende
  • Hopscotch by Julio Cortázar
  • Pedro Páramo by Juan Rulfo
  • Short stories by Jorge Luis Borges
• Recent/Reissue Recommendations:
  • The Storyteller’s Death by Anne Davila Cardinal
  • The Cemetery of Untold Stories by Julia Alvarez
  • Works by Elena Garro and the new translation of The Week of Colors
  • Magical Realism by Vanessa Angelica Villarreal
• Edge/Expansion Cases:
  • Salman Rushdie (Midnight’s Children)
  • Toni Morrison (Beloved)
  • Colson Whitehead (The Underground Railroad)

Final Thoughts

While magical realism’s definition remains slippery—owing to its political, historical, and cultural specificity—its label is also used broadly because it's so evocative and familiar. The hosts stress the importance of contextual awareness over strict genre policing but advocate paying homage to its Latin American roots and political origins. They urge readers and publishers alike to respect both authorial intent and the deeper traditions behind the term, while also encouraging exploration across genre boundaries.

Recommended Listening

For further exploration, listen to the upcoming Zero to Well Read episode on Salman Rushdie’s Midnight’s Children, which will probe the intersection of magical realism, surrealism, and the political novel.

Vanessa’s Reading List for Magical Realism Beginners

• One Hundred Years of Solitude (García Márquez) [53:14]
• Like Water for Chocolate (Laura Esquivel) [53:14]
• The House of the Spirits (Isabel Allende) [53:14]
• Hopscotch (Julio Cortázar) [53:14]
• The Storyteller’s Death (Anne Davila Cardinal) [53:53]
• The Cemetery of Untold Stories (Julia Alvarez) [54:30]
• Magical Realism (Vanessa Angelica Villarreal) [55:12]
• Elena Garro’s The Week of Colors and Jasmina Barrera’s essay (recent translations) [56:16]

"I promise not to smack books out of your hands." – Vanessa Diaz (57:28)