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Book Riot - The Podcast
Who Will The Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay?
00:54:48
Jeff and Rebecca run though the nominees for the 2025 Academy Award for Best Adapted Screenplay and assign each of them a win probability
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- [00:01]
Rebecca Schinsky
Since you're new to HR Block, we'll look at your returns from the last three years for any money your last guy might have missed for free.
- [00:07]
Jeff O'Neill
I could get money back from last year.
- [00:09]
Rebecca Schinsky
You could. We'll find any mistakes. Could have really used that two years.
- [00:12]
Jeff O'Neill
Ago when I dated that mistake for five months. Don't leave money on the table. Switch to HR Block and get a free Second look review. Second look is included at no additional cost with the purchase of tax preparation. Results vary. All tax situations are different. Fees apply if you have us file an amended return. This is the Book Riot podcast. I'm Jeff O'Neill.
- [00:33]
Rebecca Schinsky
I'm Rebecca Schinsky.
- [00:34]
Jeff O'Neill
Today we are going to cross over Rebecca into the world of movies. In a truly chaotic Oscars year, we're going to spend some time talking about the adapted screenplay nominees and the movies. I have not seen them all. You have. I've seen several of them and talk about why we think they're going to win and then also the virtues of the movies themselves. Is that. Is that what you're expecting to do today?
- [00:59]
Rebecca Schinsky
It is. And I did a percentage ranking for each of which I believe you did as well. Likely, we think each one is to win. Truly chaotic is a great description of this Oscar season in many ways and this class, I think, in particular.
- [01:18]
Jeff O'Neill
So do you want to explain why we're doing the pie the pies versus just a straight up ranking? This is a different wrinkle and we're trying to capture something different.
- [01:24]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, we're just. Well, it's more interesting to have some kind of. We talked about should we do a ranking of like most likely to least likely. But the difference between like your second and your third can be really significant. So we're trying to capture a weighted probability with which is functionally what we're doing here. Like I think this title is has a 4% chance of winning and this other one has a 73% chance of winning or. Or whatever. To really get at the more nuanced explanation for each of our perspectives on these five candidates that have made the finals for best adapted screenpl.
- [01:57]
Jeff O'Neill
Do you want to talk about our personal preferences before we do the weightings? You want to do it as we do them or how would you like to separate sort of what we like versus what we think may or may not win?
- [02:07]
Rebecca Schinsky
Let's, I think, mix them all in together. But we can distinguish between personal preference and what we know in our limited knowledge as movie followers about what the Academy might do here.
- [02:17]
Jeff O'Neill
Let's see. Programming Notes I should say we are. Rebecca Romney is joining me on first edition. That episode's coming out on Thursday, the 20th, February 20th.
- [02:30]
Rebecca Schinsky
Oh, that will be out before this comes out then, because we're recording this early.
- [02:34]
Jeff O'Neill
We've already listened to it. That's right, recording this early. So I have no idea what you will have heard and what's coming up pretty soon. I can say in any regard that if you're interested in seeing us live and in person and can get yourself to Powell's Downtown on Birdside in Portland, Oregon on The evening of March 13, 2025, Rebecca and I are going to do a live event there. We're going to do the most recommendable books of the 21st. What century? Yeah, 21st century. So far. So far we've each picked 10 books. We don't know what the other persons are. And we're going to run through them there. There's going to be a registration link in the offering. I was expecting that sort of any day now. We're still a few weeks out. It is ticketed. It's 15 bucks a pop, though. That $15 goes towards a purchase of house. So you're going to come to a bookstore for an hour event. You're going to spend 15 bucks. So it's essentially free is how I.
- [03:23]
Rebecca Schinsky
Think about it there. And we're going to hand sell you 20 great books. So good luck spending only 15 bucks.
- [03:29]
Jeff O'Neill
And I'm sure you've never, we've, you've never talked about any of them on the show. If you've listened for a long time. Completely new surprise.
- [03:34]
Rebecca Schinsky
You know, judging from my list, there's probably some of this to be done in the opening of that event. But what distinguishes a recommendable book from like a best book or a fun book or a book? We both just this was a really fun challenge and I hated it. It was so difficult.
- [03:52]
Jeff O'Neill
So hard. So hard. Yeah, I agree. It was a really, really tough thing to do. All right. With that, let's see Patreon you can find there. You will have. It's already been in the feed at this point, though. I'm editing it today. Rebecca and I talked for a good long time about Life in Three Dimensions by Professor Shigeru Oishi there. What else we do in the Patreon.
- [04:14]
Rebecca Schinsky
Coming up soon, we're gonna be doing. What are we gonna be doing? I will be on vacation, so there's gonna be like a gap in the feed and we're gonna have a book club about death Takes Me by Christina Rivera Garza.
- [04:28]
Jeff O'Neill
Right, right, right.
- [04:28]
Rebecca Schinsky
And who knows what else. We've done some pop up Patreon episodes after we've each had interesting trips in the last couple years and I will be in the Arctic Circle in Finland, hopefully seeing the northern lights and meeting some reindeer and stuff. We might do an episode about that for the Patreon when I'm back.
- [04:49]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. All right, let's do a sponsor break and get into our discussion here.
- [04:57]
Rebecca Schinsky
This episode is sponsored by Last Twilight in Paris by Pam Genoff. Stick around after the show to hear an excerpt from the audiobook London 1953. Louise, adjusting to life as a housewife, finds a necklace in a secondhand shop and recognizes it from her time with the Red Cross in Nazi occupied Europe. Convinced it holds clues to her friend Franny's wartime death, she follows the trail to Paris with her former boss Ian. Their search uncovers secrets about Levitan, a department store turned Nazi prison, and Helene, a woman separated from her husband during the war. Inspired by a true story, Last Twilight in Paris weaves a gripping mystery with themes of sacrifice, resistance, and love's enduring power. This is perfect for fans of Kate Quinn and Kristin Hannah. Again, it's inspired by a real department store in Paris that was converted to a Nazi prison camp. Stick around after the show to hear an audiobook excerpt from Last Twilight in Paris by Pam Genoff.
- [05:58]
Pam Genoff
Today's episode is brought to you by Hachette Audio, publisher of you Didn't Hear this from me by Kelsey McKinney and you didn't hear this from me. McKinney explores the murkiness of everyday storytelling, like why is gossip considered a sin and how can we better recognize when it's being weaponized? Also, why do we think we're entitled to every detail of a celebrity's personal life? And how do we define gossip anyway? From the host of the Normal Gossip podcast comes a delightfully insightful exploration of our obsession with gossip that weaves together journalism, cultural criticism and memoir. Also, the audiobook is narrated by Kelsey McKinney herself and it's available for pre order wherever you buy. Audiobooks on sale February 11, so make sure to check out you Didn't Hear this from me by Kelsey McKinney. And thanks again to Hachette Audio for sponsoring this episode.
- [06:49]
Jeff O'Neill
Low to high. High to low.
- [06:51]
Rebecca Schinsky
Sure, let's go. You want to.
- [06:53]
Jeff O'Neill
Sure. I said I gave you two different things and you said sure, let's go.
- [06:57]
Rebecca Schinsky
Low to high. Okay, let me just read the names of the nominees first, for folks who are unfamiliar so there's Emilia Perez, which was written by Jacques Odillard, based on a libretto that he wrote and on the novel Ecout by Boris Razone. Sing Sing, written by Greg Qu and Clint Bentley, based on the Sing Sing Follies by John H. Richardson, A Complete Unknown, written by James Mangold and Jay Cox, based on the book Dylan Goes Electric by Elijah Wald Conclave, written by Peter Straughn, based on the novel by Robert Harris and Nickel Boys, written by Rommel Ross and Jocelyn Barnes, based on, of course, the novel by Colson Whitehead.
- [07:36]
Jeff O'Neill
I'm still even fudging with my even as you were talking, I'm fudging with my numbers because I'm just not sure how to proceed here.
- [07:43]
Rebecca Schinsky
Top level. Which ones have you seen?
- [07:44]
Jeff O'Neill
I've seen Sing Sing Conclave and then I've skipped through Emilia Perez.
- [07:51]
Rebecca Schinsky
I have not managed to watch Amelia.
- [07:53]
Jeff O'Neill
Perez because I wanted to get the vibe. But from all that I've heard, it doesn't sound like my jam and it's kind of not it. Anyway, that's what I've seen. I will be seeing complete unknown probably this weekend. I think my kids will watch that with me. And it just came Nickel Boys just came out on Amazon. I can rent it a bunch of places. I just have not been in the mood because I don't think Michelle is interested. I mean she's interested in it, but like after work at 8:30 on a Wednesday night. Rebecca a bit of a tough ass.
- [08:21]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, I did a like 10:45am Saturday morning matinee for that and was like pleasantly surprised by how full it was the day that I went to see it. But yeah, you need a, you need a moment. You need an empty house for your projector screen in your living room to like really make that one happen.
- [08:37]
Jeff O'Neill
So that's, that's one. I'm just not sure what I will see it but it may be in the Great Buy and by, I don't know I'm going to get it before this the actual awards ceremonies here.
- [08:48]
Rebecca Schinsky
Okay.
- [08:48]
Jeff O'Neill
So yeah, I mean the family, we all watched and enjoyed Conclave. Sing Sing was quite moving and Colman Domingo was terrific. Zoe Saldana is worth watching Zoe Saldana scenes and Emilia Perez. The rest of it maybe is not worth people checking out. I guess I'm not a film critic at this point, but and then of course the other thing about Emilia Perez and we can let's go low to high because I think it's more interesting that way. Yes, I think it is cooked in every category except for Zoe.
- [09:16]
Rebecca Schinsky
Me too. So, folks, if you're, you know, not really super following movies as a little overview, Emilia Perez is set in Mexico. Zoe Saldana plays an attorney who is hired by, like, a drug kingpin who wants to transition and wants Zoe Saldana to help make this possible. She's supposed to, like, fly around the world, find a clinic, help him undergo the transition, to be able to live his life as a woman, and then, like, maintain relations with his family and do all sorts of things. It is. It's a musical, chaotic at best. And I, like, I thought it was pretty messy when I saw it. There was, like, for a while, this was kind of surprisingly the favorite to win Best Picture. It's been in the race and a big point of conversation, but also a big source of contention in the movie world over the last several months as, like, the film is set in Mexico, but very few Mexican people are involved in it. The main character is trans, but a lot of trans and LGBTQ organizations have spoken out against the representation in the film and talked about it as regressive. And there was some, like, well, maybe the academy is going to, like, line up behind this because it's a signal that the academy and that Hollywood are not going to give, like, Hollywood is part of the resistance and is not going to give it into the more conservative cultural narratives of the time. But a few weeks ago, old tweets from the movie's star, Carla Sofia Gascon, were. People have been saying, like, unearthed, but they were in her Twitter feed the whole time. They were just.
- [10:51]
Jeff O'Neill
They were on earth. They were just there.
- [10:52]
Rebecca Schinsky
They were earthed, but they were in Spanish. And I think that the best explanation for what happened is probably someone at, like, at the studio, when they were vetting people making this film, like, did not go to the trouble to translate tweets into Spanish and see that Carlos Sophia Gascon had said some things that were pretty racist and pretty bigoted against other groups at various points. And so this has been, like, I think, all but torpedoed. As, as you said, I gave it a 2% chance just because, like, maybe.
- [11:23]
Jeff O'Neill
Maybe one, but I had the courage to give it zero. I don't think there's any chance this is happening. Yeah.
- [11:30]
Rebecca Schinsky
And as we're recording this on February 17th, voting closes tomorrow on the 18th. So this has been part, like, this broke while the, like, last push of Oscar voting was really fresh. Yeah, I don't think there's much chance for it. I also don't think it should have been that high in the conversation.
- [11:48]
Jeff O'Neill
Well, there you go, I think that's. That's the base case. Right. Is like, it was probably fourth or fifth coming into. I mean. I mean, if there was a huge upswelling and we all loved Emilia Perez. Right. But that's just not what happened. It just didn't happen that way.
- [12:00]
Rebecca Schinsky
Right. And like, I guess to remind myself as much as we remind listeners here in Best Adapted Screenplay, we're still talking about what is the best screenplay. It's just, what is the best screenplay that happens to be adapted from existing work. It's not about how faithful or good of an adaptation of the original. It is. So I think, to a first approximation, we should assume the viewers and the voting body have not read the source materials or seen the source materials for most of these films.
- [12:28]
Jeff O'Neill
If I remember correctly, too, in the. In the Best Picture, that's the whole Academy. But in the more targeted ones, like, these are writers voting on this.
- [12:38]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yes.
- [12:38]
Jeff O'Neill
Right. On this particular award. So, you know, a more writerly kind of one is interesting to think about. Like, but in this case, I'm not sure there's much affection for even knowledge of the extant source text. Is it a particularly writerly story? Not really. I don't think, like, you're not there for the dialogue. You're there for spectacle in Amelia Perez as much as anything. Yeah, I had it at a cowards 1%. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go zero. Because if we wake up and Emilia Perez is one of Best Adapted Screenplay, I should just throw in the towel of guessing anything ever when it comes to cultural events, because I just. I just don't see a world in which this happens.
- [13:19]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, I'd be really surprised. And the last several winners of this category have been on the more literary side of things like Moonlight, Call Me by youy Name, BlacKkKlansman, Jojo Rabbit, Coda, Women Talking. And last year was American Fiction, and Amelia Perez just does not go with that vibe.
- [13:40]
Jeff O'Neill
Yes.
- [13:41]
Rebecca Schinsky
In my reading of the film.
- [13:42]
Jeff O'Neill
Okay, so 0 and 2%. So let's go up to your fourth weight.
- [13:49]
Rebecca Schinsky
A complete unknown. I gave it 8%.
- [13:52]
Jeff O'Neill
Well, this is clearly going to be our biggest disagreement. I think the Chalamet train is running. I think people like Bob Dylan and I think a lot of. I probably. I think there's a chance this is the most read book amongst the category here. I have this as my number one choice. 34%. Really? I think Chalamet could win. It's not gonna win Best Director and Best Picture, any of those things, but, like, It's Bob Dylan. Like, people get it. This is Bob Dylan. They don't know the book, but they know adapting Bob Dylan's life. So I think there's something to that.
- [14:24]
Rebecca Schinsky
I think you're right that the Chalamet train is moving. I think he's gonna win best actor. He has a very strong chance. Dude has been out there campaigning. He's everywhere. As a screenplay, it's kind of. It's not like as messy as Emilia Perez, but it doesn't totally hang together. It doesn't totally work. I suspected, watching it, that a lot of that maybe had to do with the organization of the book. Like, it's about the night that Bob Dylan blew up the folk world or supposedly blew up the folk world. Everyone was afraid he was going to blow up the folk world by playing an electric set or becoming. Really becoming a musician who played electric. And you spend most of the two and a half hours with him and with Edward Norton, who plays Pete's Seeger, and with Scoot McNary, who is playing Woody Guthrie, learning about the folk music scene. And it's like 1960s resistance vibes. And the folk guys were just convinced that if Dylan plugged his guitar into an amp, like, it's all over for not just folk music, but the resistance. And I. I came home telling Bob, like, I think you can draw a straight line from Dylan plugs into the amp to, like, eventually we get Rage against the Machine playing resistance music, politically active music. But I just didn't think the whole thing, like, as a screen, it's not that random.
- [15:46]
Jeff O'Neill
I haven't. So that's one. I'm on a limb here, so that makes sense to me.
- [15:49]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, 8%. My 8% might be a little low, but when I had given 2% to Emelia Perez, I was looking to round things out. Like, let's do some. Let's do some clean math. So I gave it 8%. That's my 4.
- [16:01]
Jeff O'Neill
I. I also think there's a chance that it's the most. It will have been. Is that my right tense for appear. It will have been the most seen of any of these movies. Maybe this in conclave. Like the kinds of people who turned into screenplay writers give a crap about Bob Dylan and they have this.
- [16:20]
Rebecca Schinsky
That is true.
- [16:21]
Jeff O'Neill
And I've seen some clip packages and there's some good lines. Like, there's some good dialogue. And of the movies I've seen, like, I really liked Conclave.
- [16:30]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [16:31]
Jeff O'Neill
Do I remember one line of dialogue? No, but I already remember. Yeah, of course it's a war, I guess. And even that was kind of handy. I didn't think, actually Tucci was great in it, to be perfectly honest with you. But even the clip hackers I've seen, there's some of the Dylan stuff that I remember and some of the Edward Norton stuff from the. So combination of. People care about Dylan. Most people who are writers will have seen this movie. Writers care about language. Dylan's won a Nobel Prize in literature.
- [17:00]
Rebecca Schinsky
It's true. It's true.
- [17:02]
Jeff O'Neill
So I just think there may be like a. I don't know that it should win necessarily. I don't think I would pick it even having seen it sight unseen. But I think once you start putting pebbles in the jar, there's awful lot of pebbles to raise the water level.
- [17:13]
Rebecca Schinsky
That's. I mean, you make good points here. Availability is definitely a factor. Like, people have to have seen these films to feel comfortable voting for them. And I do think there's, like, very strong availability for a Complete unknown and for Conclave as well. Conclave is my third. So what was your fourth?
- [17:30]
Jeff O'Neill
My fourth then was Sing Sing and the only. And I gave it 10% chance. I think it has a chance of being like the indie darling pick. Like a lot of time indie darling picks get, you know, adapted screenplay or screenplay. Because the writers, I don't know, I think seem to be more interested in either actually or performing. Like weirder, stranger, more literary, sort of talky, intellectual stuff on the whole. I think this movie came out too early. Right. I think it's been out for a while and I think it's got maybe the inverse of the Complete Unknown problem where the story has been Colman Domingo. And I can't remember the dude that has. There was the. The kind of. Kind of got snubbed for best supporting Actor, Right.
- [18:17]
Rebecca Schinsky
Clarence Macklince.
- [18:19]
Jeff O'Neill
Those two have been the story. And I don't think it has much. I don't think has much sort of awareness or. I mean, just not many people have seen this, though it is theatrical. So that's the one thing. I'm not so sure how to factor that in.
- [18:34]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, I struggled with that, too. I gave it 19%. It's my third pick for similar reasons. Like, there's a lot of affection for Colman Domingo, but he doesn't have a writing credit here. And I think. I think if it has a shot, it's because it's a movie about the power of the arts. And the Academy loves a movie about the power of the arts. But it's not. I mean for being about black men, mostly black men in prison, experiencing the arts as a mode of healing and like self help, really, it doesn't feel terribly political. And I think if the academy voters are looking for a political statement, they have some other options in this category. But I really, really enjoyed Sing Sing. The they changed the release date a couple times and then it came out like in October and then went back in the vault for a little while and then they were gonna like roll it out to more theaters at some point. I'm not sure how that has happened, but I don't think nearly as many people have seen this as want to see it or like, it'll probably do great on streaming, but that's too late for it to win an Oscar.
- [19:35]
Jeff O'Neill
I don't think the release, and I'm gonna use the term very generously here, strategies around Sing Sing or Nickel Boys has helped their case at all. I've been trying to see Nickel Boy since October. That's the kind of movie that over winter break I could have found some time to go I'm gonna watch it. I mean, I don't know. It's just like it feels like it never really came out on. It's like there it feels it never came out. And I was looking so forward to it. I have Nickel Boys as my next choice. I think. I also wonder too about two stories that kind of got smushed around. I just don't know like which one of them is going to be as thought of as an adaptation because I don't know. I haven't looked at the the past winners. I should have spent some more time. But like, does it matter that Sing Sing is based on. Isn't it a magazine article?
- [20:27]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, it's based on a big New Yorker piece.
- [20:30]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. So which I love a big New Yorker piece. But I don't like Spotlight, I guess was not. No, Spotlight was original screenplay. I keep wanting that to have been based on a book because I keep want to go read the original book that it's based on, but I can't think. And again, I didn't go look and google the thing. I couldn't think of an example of an adapted from a magazine piece having won in the past. And again, I don't know what the writers care about in this category. Are they actually looking at the degree of difficulty or the perception of the original piece at all? Or is this you throw it in the pile and it's just what made the best screenplay win. And the adapt is only to separate it from Original screenplay. Because we get to have another.
- [21:11]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, I'm not really sure about that. I. I have Nickel Boys as my top pick and I have some like, Oscar voting stuff for that. But do you want me to save that till we get.
- [21:22]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, let's save that, I guess. Well, we can do it whenever. So Nickel Boys is mine. Next. I had sing sing at 10% chance.
- [21:30]
Rebecca Schinsky
10%. So not a big 19.
- [21:33]
Jeff O'Neill
A puncher's chance. A punch, you know.
- [21:36]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. It would be surprising. Like, sometimes adapted screenplay is a place that voters go for a movie that they love, that they don't think has a shot in the other categories it's nominated in. Maybe that'll happen for Sing Sing. I think that's a lot more likely for Nickel Boys.
- [21:53]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, I have Nickel Boys as my middle, so I have it at a 22% chance. Okay. Basically the here was my thinking is I think it's got a good chance. I had complete unknown1, and I think Conclave is a better chance than Nickel Boy. So, like, what was left in my number system to put it in that way? And I think maybe, maybe, maybe the cinematography of Nickel Boys is overshadowing screenplay. Like, I think when they're thinking of what Nickel Boys is doing, they're not thinking words in final draft. I think they're thinking what they've done with the camera and what the actors have done with that. And I think that's warranted. But I just think people aren't like, what's the best screen? What's the best story of the year? What's the best? And I don't know that they're thinking because the first thing people are going to talk about is first person point of view. So how was it going to win Adapted Screenplay? I just though I like the movie and I think I like the idea of the movie. From all intents and purposes, I've heard it's very good. I also very much like the under. Like, it feels like an interesting match, but interestingly, for the most literary of the source materials here, the translation maneuver was mostly a filmic one rather than a word.
- [23:06]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, but I think that's. I agree. I think that how it was filmed has overshadowed conversations about the screenplay. But in order to slip the film into that first person perspective that actually bounces between two first person perspectives. And to pull off, there's a pretty big reveal at the end of the book and at the end of the film and to pull, like to write that in and show it. I'm trying not to spoil it for.
- [23:33]
Jeff O'Neill
You too, I think. I've read around. I haven't directly been spoiled, but I've got a sense maybe what's going on.
- [23:41]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, that reveal gets translated into what kind of becomes a frame story for the film and it's not revealed in the book until the very end that there is screenplay work there.
- [23:53]
Jeff O'Neill
Oh, I believe it.
- [23:54]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. Yeah, there was. I guess we'll just do conclave last because we're talking about Nickel Boys now. I gave it 51%. I think this is over half. I hope it's not wish casting, but I will acknowledge this might be wish casting on my part. But I did some half assed Internet research, as they would say at the ringer. Rommel Ross just won the Writer's Guild award for best adapted screenplay for this. And that is historically, like not super strong, but a pretty strong correlation with the Oscars. Voters are looking for somewhere to go after the Emilia Perez situation and write.
- [24:29]
Jeff O'Neill
I like that point.
- [24:30]
Rebecca Schinsky
I like that point on the come up at the right time because these voting bodies, like are influenced by each other and a lot of writers are members of multiple ones and so they're kind of seeing what happens or you can wait and see what happens in some of these earlier, more specialized Guild awards before you cast your Oscar votes. I also do think this might be a way for some voters to honor Rommel Ross because he's not likely to take best Picture, even though Nickel Boys did get nominated and he wasn't nominated for best Director. But he's won some directing honors at a few of the other awards this season. The downside is that first person shooting is divisive. Not everybody loved the way that the film or like not everyone resonated or agreed got what the film was doing. And I don't know, like, is it a thing that if you're a writer, you can respect that choice even if you didn't personally like the choice? Like, can you see that it's a, an interesting thing? I don't know. I feel like there's a. If we had done this a month ago, I would probably have put Nickel boys in like fourth or fifth place of likelihood because it was struggling to get seen. But like the Emilia Perez stuff just opened up so much space and then Ross is like, he's hitting momentum at exactly the right time.
- [25:49]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, that's an interesting point about where the Emilia Perez. If there was people, if there were people going into the mishigas, especially around the tweets, I think that was a real critical point. For better or worse, I think the critiques about representation of trans identity and Mexican identity, I felt like that was duck water off a duck's back in a lot. In a lot of ways.
- [26:10]
Rebecca Schinsky
I agree. I don't think the Academy really cared.
- [26:12]
Jeff O'Neill
About that, but I think that this one really. This one really stuck. So I don't know where they go. Do they go to Sing Sing? Because that's also more theatrical. Do they go here? I do think the idea that Romel Ross, because he gets the joint screenplay credit here and thus the nomination, there's a lot of good feeling that could flow from other categories because on the best picture front you're looking at are any of these. I mean, I don't even know what I mean. The Brutalist, I guess is a front runner and Nora seems very much to be picking up steam. They're out of the adapted screenplay race. So maybe what's your third selection? It feels like Conclave has and complete unknown. Have some. Maybe. I don't know. I think after a Nora's wins over the weekend and recently, I don't think they really actually do anymore. But.
- [26:57]
Rebecca Schinsky
And some of these categories are ranked choice voting. I'm not sure that all of them are but like best picture is ranked choice. Some of them, the big ones are. And I think there's a version there where like enough interest, like, you know, people maybe make Nickel boys their third choice in best picture but that good feeling for it might carry over. So I'm going better than half odds, 51%.
- [27:18]
Jeff O'Neill
It's a bold vote.
- [27:20]
Rebecca Schinsky
The Cowards bold vote. Better than that.
- [27:22]
Jeff O'Neill
Well, for a nomination like this, that feels so chaotic. That's a pretty strong show of support. Can I sidebar for just a minute about something that had an idea for and doing my very limited research, I was reading about Romel Ross and I guess I remembered some about him. Here's two things I didn't remember. One is that he's won an Academy Award, a nomination for Academy for best documentary feature.
- [27:42]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yes.
- [27:42]
Jeff O'Neill
And he played basketball at Georgetown.
- [27:45]
Rebecca Schinsky
Oh.
- [27:46]
Jeff O'Neill
Is there a per. Is there now something I want more than a Ramel Ross directed documentary about pickup basketball that Ross Gay and Hanif Abdurakee like write and consult on.
- [27:57]
Rebecca Schinsky
There's nothing I want more than that and I care a lot less about basketball than you do.
- [28:02]
Jeff O'Neill
I mean, in terms of wish casting, that's a pretty big one. But it feels possible. That doesn't feel impossible though. He's a big. This is a big step. I don't know he's going to do it. How many documentaries you can do after this.
- [28:12]
Rebecca Schinsky
But, like, if Hanif Abdurakib is not already on Ramel Ross's reading radar, I would be shocked.
- [28:18]
Jeff O'Neill
Has to be. Yeah. Literally added film adapters who played basketball. I mean, he has to at least know about it. So that's pretty interesting.
- [28:27]
Rebecca Schinsky
A really interesting guy. I like that. Sidebar.
- [28:30]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, there you go. And let's see. So I guess then the last one we really have to talk about is Conclave. That's my second choice. I put it 1 percentage point behind Complete Unknown. I like. I think this is one where maybe my own stuff is getting the way I like to. I liked it. Fun. I didn't love it.
- [28:50]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [28:50]
Jeff O'Neill
I thought it could have been, like, I don't know. You know what I wanted more Sorkin, like, dialogue, I think, is what I wanted from this politic. I wanted a little more. If we're going to fight and we fight with words, joust, baby. Give me more Perry's and jabs and give me language and give me biblical references and like, just let me roll around in this stuff. And it was. It was reserved and I guess it makes sense. It felt maybe it was trying to be more realistic than I wanted it to be, Honestly, in terms of the dialogue, Like, I don't mind some stylized. This is all kind of drama queens wearing crazy clothes and picking on each other to be the Pope. Let's roll around in it. Let's like, let's make this theatrical. I want it to be more like a stage play, and stage plays need dialogue.
- [29:40]
Rebecca Schinsky
I think that's a great point. I mean, this is the guy who brought us Silence of the Lambs, Robert Harris. So, like, dude knows dramatic roll around in it. Yeah, kinds of writing. I really enjoyed going to see Conclave and like, man, this. The cast is just stacked. Lithgow and Fiennes. And I agree, it's not my favorite Stanley Tucci book. He's doing some interesting stuff. I do have this one as my second as well. I gave it 20 points, so it's 1% ahead of Sing Sing in my rankings. But yeah, I just did not think the writing was that impressive. There's a big surprise near the end that felt clunky to me, and I understand that's an artifact of that. It comes out of the book, and so maybe that's how it comes across in the book as well. It's just not nearly as highfalutin as the setting is. We're gonna pick a new pope and there's all this political intrigue and palace intrigue and people have stories and long held vendettas against each other. And I agree. I think there was so much opportunity to make it really sharp and it could have even just been like 15% sharper and still been very accessible to a mainstream moviegoing audience. Maybe you don't go full Sorkin because you don't want to turn off middle of the road casual viewers.
- [30:59]
Jeff O'Neill
I don't think you do turn them off. West Wing was a huge.
- [31:01]
Rebecca Schinsky
I hope not. That's true. That's true.
- [31:03]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, it's.
- [31:04]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, I think there was meat left on the bone there. This one I put in second place because of availability. I think most. A lot of people have seen it and that's the first hurdle. But it's not nearly as literary or like highbrow, for lack of a better term, as a lot of the recent winners of this category. So I would be really surprised to see the writers vote for this.
- [31:28]
Jeff O'Neill
Of course, you realize what we just did is we gave something a demerit for not being smart enough. And I'm not sure that's smart. I'm not, I'm actually not sure that's smart.
- [31:38]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. But in the. Looking at the pat, the recent past winners like American Fiction took it last year, Coda took it a few years before that. Women Talking took it in 2024 from the 2023 films like Jojo Rabbit, Call me by your name. Like these are not accessible, like lower common denominator kinds of writing.
- [31:59]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, I, I think that's true. But I think this probably clears the bar of did it feel writerly? Because it's just a bunch of. I mean it's just dudes walking around saying words at each other like that's the answer.
- [32:10]
Rebecca Schinsky
Maybe like the setting. Does the highbrow work? Because we're talking about something like rarefied error.
- [32:15]
Jeff O'Neill
It looks unbelievable. It's like so cool to look at like the whole thing. Like it really looks fantastic. I could, you know what? Turns out they knew what they were doing over the last three or two thousand years in the Catholic Church. Like where are some weird looking like priest stuff? And it does a lot of your. Does a lot of your work for thinking this matters and taking it seriously.
- [32:34]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. Do some pomp and some circumstance and like some secret voting and. Yeah, that's all that. All the political machinations of it were really fun.
- [32:43]
Jeff O'Neill
I also, I don't know whether or not this category has ranked choice voting. And even if it did, I think there is a world in which all Right. We said Complete Unknown has a Chalamet thing. People can hang on. Nickel Boyce has a cinematography thing. People can hang on. Sing Sing has a Colman Domingo thing. People are gonna hang on. If you're looking to give Conclave some shine, this feels like it's gonna be your best shot at this point into the major categories, you know, maybe best costume. I don't know what else do. I'm not sure what's up for that stuff.
- [33:13]
Rebecca Schinsky
Fiennes is up for best actor, but the idea that he would beat both Chalamet playing Bob Dylan and Adrien Brody in the Brutalist, it just doesn't seem possible.
- [33:21]
Jeff O'Neill
And people like Race Boy.
- [33:22]
Rebecca Schinsky
It's shocking.
- [33:23]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah.
- [33:23]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [33:24]
Jeff O'Neill
So I just don't see. I feel like maybe it has even more of a case than Nickel Boys for where does the affection for this movie flow into some other places. Any. Anything else you saw last year that you would have liked to have seen in this award? I was looking at my wrist. I couldn't even remember what else was adaptations. I don't remember if there were major snubs or other kinds of things that, let's see, got into the mix.
- [33:49]
Rebecca Schinsky
See the taste of things. Well, that was last year, though.
- [33:54]
Jeff O'Neill
I did like that movie.
- [33:55]
Rebecca Schinsky
I. Man, the Taste of Things was great.
- [33:57]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah.
- [33:58]
Rebecca Schinsky
I am not sure.
- [34:01]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, I don't think I saw anything.
- [34:02]
Rebecca Schinsky
What was based on. Yeah, no, I mean, like, the Stuff. I mean, the Return, I think, was the most recent adaptation that I saw, which I did really like. But my favorite things I've seen so far or at the end of last year and early this year were not adaptations. Like, I'm pulling for the substance at this point. Give to me more that award. Go ahead. That film was fun. I really liked Anora. I liked A Real Pain. But I haven't seen a lot of adaptations this year. I haven't seen Wicked yet. I was never in the Wicked Hive. And I just cannot motivate myself to go spend three hours at the theater. So I think I am just gonna wait and watch it at home. I did take your note. I'm not gonna watch it on a plane for the first viewing. Like, get a good. I have good sound at home and a big screen, so I haven't done that. Yeah, I think this was an interesting year.
- [34:52]
Jeff O'Neill
There weren't other. There were some interesting TV shows maybe that you could talk about, but, like, I don't see another one from 2024 adaptations that were all that amazing. I do find myself wishing, for example, like, in terms of Achievements in adaptation. If we're using about that and we just sort of. If there was an Emmy for this, which would. There should be.
- [35:16]
Rebecca Schinsky
Oh, yeah.
- [35:16]
Jeff O'Neill
That would be amazing. And maybe that's a good future episode for next year if we do that. Because you look at Shogun, like, what an achievement of adaptation. That is unbelievable stuff. Ripley too. I frankly think Ripley would have been a contender for like, a feature film. Feature film. That would have been absolutely on there.
- [35:39]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [35:40]
Jeff O'Neill
So that's. I think Shogun, Beloved.
- [35:41]
Rebecca Schinsky
Say nothing could have contended.
- [35:43]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. I think Shogun is maybe a more impressive.
- [35:47]
Rebecca Schinsky
Oh, well, yeah.
- [35:48]
Jeff O'Neill
Adaptation. Like a feat of adaptation. Having read source material for both just because of difficulties of. I mean, just the language and all the things that go into it. But there's all kinds of interesting stuff. And I think I'd put the TV adaptations against any one of these, for sure.
- [36:04]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. I'm making a note to, like, think about this around the Golden Globes and the Emmys, because I don't think that our TV awards have caught up to the fact that so much TV is adaptations now that we have all of these miniseries and limited runs. It's not just like a thing that HBO does occasionally, but Netflix and Hulu and like Apple are building business models around this stuff. And, like, it would have been great a few years ago to see Pachinko get a nomination.
- [36:30]
Jeff O'Neill
Yep. Yeah. We had Dark Matter and Presumed Innocence, like, and like, we've seen Silo and things that people really like. I don't know how many of them compete. I think it would be cool to have a mixed film and tv, like just best adaptation, like, put them all in there. They don't get to scrap very much. It's like the All Star game. You can see the. The AFC and the nfc, but I guess that's the problem.
- [36:49]
Rebecca Schinsky
It's the thing we can do at the end of the year. We'll just throw them all into a pot together and give them a book riot Award.
- [36:54]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. I mean, I'm tipping my hand now that it's probably going to be Shogun at this point. Was there ever a world I know going into it ends with us, that there was hope amongst I think Blake Lively's camp that this would be a. I'm trying to even think of what the equivalent would be to make Blake Lively into the kind of person that could. Well, look at another adaptation last year. Amy Adams and Night Bitch. Right. Is there a world in which it ends with us? Takes Blake Lively to a place where she could get these kinds of roles on a consistent basis. Like using the, I don't know, arm's length. I kept. A lot of people have kept it in with us from, like, serious art discourse. We may have had a couple of our arms in that. In that scrum. I will say, is there a world in which, if it was really well done, that could have been an adapted screenplay nominee, or is it just the source material just made it impossible?
- [37:48]
Rebecca Schinsky
I think the source material makes it impossible that, like, even the best adaptation of A Mess is still pretty messy and that it doesn't know what genre it wants to be. Like, readers rolled around with that, but as a work of writing, that screenplay was not good. If it had a shot at anything, it would have been like, what is the new Oscar from box office achievement, which is you made a lot of money and we want to give you an Oscar, but we don't want to give you any of the serious ones.
- [38:20]
Jeff O'Neill
It's not good. Just made a lot of money.
- [38:22]
Rebecca Schinsky
Right.
- [38:23]
Jeff O'Neill
Or it's not bad. It's not bad.
- [38:24]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. And I think there could have been a case for it ends with us there. Like, I do think the adaptation was better than, like, the movie was better than the book, but I also thought that was a low bar to clear.
- [38:34]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. How close do you think? Like, how much, how many percent better did the Night Movie need to be for it to be a conversation for.
- [38:42]
Rebecca Schinsky
Oh, that's a good question. I think if the screenplay had stayed more faithful to the book, if the screenplay had gone in the complicated direction that the ending of the book goes in, it could have really been a contender. But the softened edges of what the. I can't remember the screenwriter's name. What she did there, it really took, like, it took the teeth out of it and made it very pat and pretty predictable. But if it had been really faithful to Rachel Yoder, I think that could have been a contender here.
- [39:14]
Jeff O'Neill
I. I remember I listened to you and Vanessa talk about. And I haven't seen the substance, though. I know there's. That did very well. And I wonder if the producers behind Night saw what, you know, kind of the gross. You know, the. The body horror stuff. The substance actually did and pulled off and had success. When they're like, damn it. Like, we could. Yeah, damn it.
- [39:33]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [39:34]
Jeff O'Neill
We could have done like, that was there for us to do that?
- [39:36]
Rebecca Schinsky
I think so. I hope so. Like, that's certainly a lesson I took from it is there's. And I hope that studios are paying attention to this, that there is appetite for, like, stories about, like, the ways that being a woman can be horrific. And like, you can make a body horror movie about that, whether it's about aging or about motherhood, that, like, there is real interest and energy around that if it's done well and if it's sharp and the substance stays pretty sharp most of the time. And night they, I thought they just really sanded down places that if they had done what Rachel Yoder does in the book would have been like, the ending of the book is so weird. And it could you. If you leave a movie experience with a. Like, oh, my God, I can't believe they did that. It's really memorable. But the ending of the film is pretty forgettable.
- [40:26]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, it seemed like they, they, they pulled their. They pulled the punch a little bit and they didn't. I don't think they need to. And I hope other. Like, I was thinking about, like, I don't, you know, this is not really my, My lane necessarily, but like, look, you know, listening to you talk about the Blob, right? Or is it Blob? Maggie? It's not the Blob. It's just Blob, right?
- [40:45]
Rebecca Schinsky
Oh, it's just Blob.
- [40:46]
Jeff O'Neill
Just blob.
- [40:47]
Rebecca Schinsky
The Maggie Sue.
- [40:48]
Jeff O'Neill
The Maggie Sue. Like, I wonder if someone's optioned. I'm sure that book has been optioned because most interesting things do get optioned. And they look at the substance and they look at Blob. And like, I wonder if. I wonder if there's something we can. I mean, it sounds like this one's a little more comic. It's not nearly as.
- [41:03]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [41:04]
Jeff O'Neill
I don't know.
- [41:04]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, the book is disturbing. More comic. Yeah. It's like, it goes to some of those, like, horror adjacent places, but it has a really good sense of humor about it. Like, I think the right actor with the right who's. Who can strike the right tone because.
- [41:20]
Jeff O'Neill
The main character is a little younger. Right? Younger.
- [41:23]
Rebecca Schinsky
Like in her early 20s.
- [41:24]
Jeff O'Neill
Okay.
- [41:25]
Rebecca Schinsky
And as the Blob becomes a man, he would need a certain, like, bearing and a little twinkle in his eye, I think. Yeah, that would be really interesting. Yeah, I think don't pull your punches. Like, let it. If it's weird, let it make it weird. If it's.
- [41:40]
Jeff O'Neill
Or it can work, right? I mean, sometimes you be more conservative. You think you've got something. Like, you almost have loss aversion pre. Like, maybe they think they had something. We've got all these other pieces we don't need. Like, let's take the risk off the board. And I think for a movie like this, in most movies that have feature film academy award pretensions, again, unless you get Chalamet doing Dylan. But that's also a swing. Like, I think when they pitch that, you're like, I'm not sure this is going to work. This could be a disaster. Like, whatever it is about that thing, lean into that thing. Because if it doesn't work, it's not going to matter anyway if you don't do it. So anyway, I was just kind of looking at some of the other contenders there. Yeah, Wicked's an interesting case of screenplay. My daughter had seen it pretty recently. Michelle had two. And so I was kind of thinking about, you know, what's the case for not adapt. Adaptation here? I think there's a little bit. And it sounds like Emilio presence too. Is it. What's an adaptation of? Is itation of the musical or is that astation of the book? Yeah, because as a movie, from what I've seen Wicked a couple times, it's pretty straight up. Like there's not a lot different. And I. Yeah, I think probably you're like, okay, they took the musical and put it on film. Great. But I'm not sure that's best screenplay for adaptation.
- [42:57]
Rebecca Schinsky
Right. And like the screenplay has to stand on its own with the assumption that folks don't know.
- [43:02]
Jeff O'Neill
Right.
- [43:03]
Rebecca Schinsky
The original. Like.
- [43:05]
Jeff O'Neill
I also think the story of Wicked is secondary. I mean, I've thought this since. I mean, I may have said this on the show before. Like, you're there for Glinda and Elphaba and the songs. Like, if you didn't have any story and you just had those little scenes, I think the movie is 80% as good because the stuff about who. What's going on and there's a lot of stuff that's super convenient. I'm very curious to see you do the second part because anyway, the story is strange and I'm not. People aren't there because, like, oh, what's going to happen next?
- [43:33]
Rebecca Schinsky
Right.
- [43:33]
Jeff O'Neill
The non singing parts are there just to get you the next singing part.
- [43:36]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. Which is how musicals work.
- [43:38]
Jeff O'Neill
Which is fine. Which is. Which is fine. I had a great time at the movies and they're terrific in it. But as a work of screenplaying, at least from my jaundiced and unpracticed eye, I'm not like, wow, I can't believe they made that into a movie. Because that's almost exactly what I saw on the stage.
- [43:55]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. And I've heard some similar rumblings about like, what if it won best picture or like, John Em Chu was nominated for best Director for, like, what are we doing here? When there are all of these other possibilities that folks, I think it was. Sean Fennesee over at the Ringer was like, basically that he was going to walk into the sea. If John Chu won for Best Director.
- [44:15]
Jeff O'Neill
Among this few, I mean, I can. Whatever. Everyone's their own opinion, I think how if. If you've seen a bad musical adaptation, you know how bad this can go.
- [44:28]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [44:28]
Jeff O'Neill
And this is a wild. I mean, this. They spent all the dollars on it. It could have looked so bad. I mean, I know some people don't like the color grading, whatever. That's fine. I think that's more about aesthetics than is about, I don't know, intrinsic value. But, like, the thing, like, the musical numbers worked. Like, it looked great. It was fun. Like, when they're singing. When she's singing the wizard and I, you're like, I don't. Wouldn't rather be anywhere else in the world in this moment. Like, and that's not true with all musicals, for sure. It's the most accomplished musical since, what, Chicago. Like, pretty clearly. So, like, even the great Steven Spielberg made a really credible, interesting adaptation of west side Story, and no one gave a shit.
- [45:10]
Rebecca Schinsky
Right. That's true. So, anyway, I thought for a little bit that we might have needed to have Rowan on here to talk about the Wild Robot, because I thought there was a shot for the wild robot to get best adapted screenplay, but that's tough for an animal animated film. I'm looking forward to seeing that one.
- [45:25]
Jeff O'Neill
Too, if it were on here and I had a vote again, I've seen it and I've. I've done the book with the kids. It's terrific. I mean, it just. It really is a terrific adaptation. Five alarm snot bomb. Especially if you've got kids or, you know, have had kids or whatever. But yeah, as. As a work of adaptation, I think animation, too, it's a little bit like musicals or. Or what was I thinking with the Chalamet or with the Colman Domingo? Like, sometimes it's like that. Is it the actor or not? But this one, it's like the visuals override how good the screenplay is. Like, to my mind, picture Pixar should have multiple best original screenplays already. I don't think they have one at this point.
- [46:09]
Rebecca Schinsky
Interesting.
- [46:10]
Jeff O'Neill
But this one really. This one really could. Like, I saw War of the Rohirrim with. With Ames, which was an anime version of the Tolkien story, and it was Wildly inert. You know, it's like it can really go sideways and I think some of it is story frankly.
- [46:26]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [46:26]
Jeff O'Neill
And it's underappreciated. I mean it's under appreciated with all movies what the writers do. So whatever that's. That's going on already. But I thought the Wild Robot was a wonderful achievement. I thought a better adapt adaptation as a movie going experience in conclave but.
- [46:40]
Rebecca Schinsky
Oh, you've got to want to do it that way. I'm taking the book with me for jet lag reading next week and I'll wait until I get home to watch the movie so I can see it on a big screen.
- [46:50]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. All right. We can end it there. Shoes@email podcast.com book riot.com listen, we did 2025 adaptation look aheads and I don't remember a single thing we talked about. Not, not one thing.
- [47:02]
Rebecca Schinsky
The interesting ones are still later in the spring. The Amateur starring Rami Malek. That's a big one. And then Mickey 17 the Robert Patton and like sci fi directed by Bong Joon Ho is the other really big adaptation.
- [47:15]
Jeff O'Neill
The tracking on that so bad. I think the narrative is going to be. That's a bust. It costs like $200 million to make. It's gonna make $18 million.
- [47:22]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yikes.
- [47:23]
Jeff O'Neill
Excited? I'm looking, I'm looking forward to that.
- [47:25]
Rebecca Schinsky
I mean yeah, I'm looking forward to like a shinsky date night for the Amateur. Like give me some you killed my wife, I'm coming for you vibes. Yeah, it's a feature. I've seen the trailer at the theater several times now know and unless they're giving it, it's possible it might be that situation where they're like telling the whole story in the trailer. Yeah, but we'll see. I'm.
- [47:44]
Jeff O'Neill
I. I mean I think I don't. We were talking about this. Maybe we were on that show. I was like, yeah, give me X average profession becomes a revenge assassin.
- [47:53]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [47:54]
Jeff O'Neill
Like a doctor Architects. Think of what the architects do to you.
- [47:58]
Rebecca Schinsky
You know plumber, he's using his brain to enact his revenge. Like this is a higher degree of difficulty than guy has a gun and and goes for it. So I'm looking forward to that. I did see that one. Oh no, I haven't seen that. I'm looking forward to that one. I've seen the trailer several times. And then I think summer and fall are really when we'll pick up adaptation news. But we are still in the after effects of the writers and actor strikes from A few years ago. So it's a little on the slow side.
- [48:25]
Jeff O'Neill
If you had to revenge murder someone using your job skills, what do you think?
- [48:31]
Rebecca Schinsky
I don't know. Revenge murdering by, like, a blog post is pretty tough.
- [48:36]
Jeff O'Neill
Very tough.
- [48:37]
Rebecca Schinsky
I could probably get some people's wives to be really mad at them based on, like, what I found out from their Internet histories.
- [48:45]
Jeff O'Neill
That's interesting.
- [48:46]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [48:47]
Jeff O'Neill
What kind of. We need, like, some kind of subliminal messaging. We need one of those. I just saw Captain America. Like, people listen to pods and getting, like, weird transmissions into their ear holes.
- [48:58]
Rebecca Schinsky
We would need technologies that we don't have access to to be able to turn our job jobs into good revenge seeking. I have a very particular set of skills.
- [49:07]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. And really it's the other person set of skills we'd be using, not ours. Okay, well, that's good. Everyone in my life is safe. It's like, you know what? I can piss Jeff off as much as I want because there's no spreadsheet in the world gonna kill me.
- [49:19]
Rebecca Schinsky
Right? Yeah. Email us and tell us who had the best cowardly vote for a thing.
- [49:24]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, that's right. Well, you want to go. Let's go through, I guess, at the end because I got a little jumbled in the middle. Why don't you do yours? Five to one.
- [49:30]
Rebecca Schinsky
Okay, so my five was Emilia Perez. I gave it 2%. I gave a complete unknown 8%. Sing Sing is my third at 19%, Conclave at 20. And then my big swing, Nickel Boys at 51.
- [49:45]
Jeff O'Neill
I had Emilia Perez at zero. Goose egg for Amelia Perez, Sing Sing at 10%, Nickel Boys at 22%. Then I had Conclave at 33% and incomplete unknown at 34%. That adds up to 99%. I could have given it somewhere else, but you know what? I'm not giving one to Amelia Perez. Not doing it. I'm not changing the others.
- [50:06]
Rebecca Schinsky
Okay, so I guess.
- [50:09]
Jeff O'Neill
A guess according to if there's a 1% chance of no award. That's what I'm saying.
- [50:13]
Rebecca Schinsky
Okay. Like, you know, we've had a year of no Pulitzer. Maybe there's no. Does that ever happen with the Oscars I've never heard of. We just didn't give it to anybody.
- [50:21]
Jeff O'Neill
People will refuse the award, but to my knowledge, there has never been a no award situation. I think that's inimical to the idea. These are publicity devices. That's true more than anything there. And if you're looking. If you're looking at Ladbrokes, you know, one of these online gambling places. Use Rebecca's picks because she's know more about this, seen more of them. If you're looking to drop a couple of quid on Internet culture gambling, do.
- [50:42]
Rebecca Schinsky
Not blame me if you bet, do not use mine.
- [50:49]
Jeff O'Neill
All right, Rebecca, we'll talk to you later.
- [50:57]
Rebecca Schinsky
Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you'll enjoy this excerpt from the audiobook of Last Twilight in Paris by Pam Jenoff.
- [51:05]
Narrator
1 Louise Henley on Thames, 1953 the fog is rolling in low across the Thames as I shutter the secondhand shop on Bell street for the night, the mist weaving its way tentacle like, into the alley where my bicycle leans against the side of the gray brick building. The sudden gloom seems to signal a change, the start of something ominous. I draw my woolen scarf closer around my neck against the brisk September air, then climb onto the rickety shopper and begin to pedal home. I navigate through the town centre, then left on Hart street and toward the base of Henley Bridge, welcoming the stillness. There's no one out at this late hour to require a greeting or stare at me oddly. When I moved here seven years ago after marrying Joe, the bucolic Oxfordshire town had at first seemed like a haven, a welcome refuge from my mum's dismal flat in South London. Only later would I realize how small the town actually was, how stifling it would become. Ten minutes later I reach home. Our low two story house on the outskirts of town at the end of Wargrave Road is identical to the half dozen others in the row, grey brick with a tiny front yard just large enough for a single rose bush each. It is situated in one of the new housing developments that had been erected hastily after the war. The site had formerly been a crater where a bomb had fallen, and I sometimes breathe deeply and imagine that I can still smell the gunpowder, though the house appears well kept from a distance. Closer, I can see the little faults even in the near darkness, the cracks at the foundation, a bit of trim around the window that is beginning to fall. I glance at the coal bin and make a mental note to ask Joe to fill it in the morning. Of course, he will be on his third brandy, or perhaps fourth, so he won't remember if I mention it now. Inside, the house is still Joe is asleep in his chair, reliving the battles he fought as he does every night. His newsboy cap sits on the table, and he is still wearing his white dress shirt from his long day at the accountancy firm, sleeves rolled. Joe's auburn hair remains military short, though his face is a bit fuller now with age. I lift the tilted glass gently from his hand and stub out the cigarette, a player's medium in the ashtray. Though I worry about him drinking too much, I don't begrudge him the temporary escape liquor provides. At least he drinks at home, bottles purchased from the off license rather than getting pissed at the Old Bell or one of the other pubs like some men in town do, staying until closing or even later for a lock in and stumbling home at all hours, embarrassing their wives. I touch his cheek, then nudge him gently. Go up to bed, dear Joe rouse himself, mumbling unintelligibly before shuffling off. I watch with a pang of sadness as he retreats. Joe had served in the British army during the war and had spent more than four years on the ground in active combat. Lucky, some call him, because he was never captured or even wounded. I can see the scars brought on by living under that kind of strain, though, watching friend after friend killed, never knowing if each day would be his last. Neither Joe nor I had ever talked in detail about what either of us had done during the war. It lies silent and unspoken between us, A dark divide. My mind reels back to the other day when the children had been playing hospital. They were using an old gauze bandage, wrapping it around a doll. Seeing this, Joe, usually so even tempered, had become distraught. You're wasting medical supplies. He cried. Don't you know that some people don't have enough of those? His eyes had been wide with horror as he surely remembered men bleeding out when there hadn't been bandages to save them. I had taken his arm. It's okay. That's just an old scrap of cloth. It really can't be used for anything else. His eyes seemed to clear then. Yes, of course. Sorry. He retreated, his old calm returning, but I could see in that moment the deep places where he hid his anger and pain. Eight years have passed since the war ended and Joe came home far longer than he was over there. Time to get on with it, stiff lipped English folks seem to say, and Joe has gotten on with it, putting his bravest face on to mask the pain. He goes to work and keeps the garden neat and pays the bills, everything that a good husband and father is supposed to do. Only I'm close enough to see the scars that will never fully heal, and I wish there was more I could do to help him. I walk to the kitchen and pick up an empty packet of crisps from the counter, left there by one of the children, no doubt. I consider being annoyed, and then decide it isn't worth the trouble. I move around, cleaning and straightening. It is late and I'm exhausted. Tidying up might have waited until morning, but my own childhood had been a never ending stream of empty beer bottles and unkempt rooms, and I don't want that for my family. I simply cannot rest unless things are in order. When I've set the kitchen to rights, I walk into the living room and sit down by the low table to work on the jigsaw puzzle that Joe gave me for Christmas, depicting a lovely image of the Welsh countryside in summer. I pick up a piece and study the jagged, half done puzzle, finding a spot and trying it. The piece snaps satisfyingly into place. That is the thing I love most about puzzles. Something that moments earlier had made no sense at all now fits. I reach for another piece. I should go to sleep, I know, but these few minutes of solitude are worth more. Five minutes later, I tear myself away from the puzzle and start upstairs in the nursery, a fancy word for the children's shared room, which is just large enough for two single beds. The twins, Ewan and Fedra, are sleeping soundly. I pick up a Beano comic from the floor and place it on the nightstand. Winnie the Pooh lies open, spine up, and I regret not making it back to read to them before bedtime. I normally only work when the children are at school, wanting to be home for them in the afternoons and evenings. Joe doesn't mind my helping at the shop as long as it doesn't interfere with taking care of the house and children. But Midge had asked a favor. Something came up and she was called away suddenly. Could I stay and close up and straighten things for the night? So I'd left dinner and Joe agreed to put the children to bed. At first I'd worried whether he could manage it, but despite his demons, Joe is good at being there when I need him to be.