Will Romantasy Get a Shot at a Big-Time Adaptation?

Summary

Book Riot - The Podcast: "Will Romantasy Get a Shot at a Big-Time Adaptation?"

Release Date: February 24, 2025

Hosts: Jeff O'Neill and Rebecca Schinsky

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Introduction and Event Announcement

Timestamp: [02:20]

Jeff O'Neill and Rebecca Schinsky kick off the episode by announcing an upcoming event at Powell's in Portland, Oregon, scheduled for March 13th. They plan to each present their top 10 most recommendable books of the century, ensuring no overlap between their selections. Tickets are priced at $15, which essentially makes the event free as attendees are expected to spend at least $50 at Powell's.

Rebecca Schinsky:
"We're each picking 10 of the most recommendable books of the century... Tickets are 15 bucks, but they go towards buying something at Pals. And if you're going to come to our show at Pals, you're at least spending 50 bucks. So they're essentially free."
[03:06]

Adaptation News: Focus on Romantasy

Timestamp: [02:23] - [25:32]

The hosts delve into the main topic: the potential for Romantasy (romantic fantasy) series to receive significant adaptations in the film and television industry. They specifically discuss the "A Court of Thorns and Roses" (ACOTAR) series by Sarah J. Maas.

Key Points Discussed:

1. ACOTAR's Potential for Adaptation:

   • Jeff O'Neill: Highlights the series' massive popularity and its ten-year presence in the market, comparing its cultural impact to that of Tolkien and Rowling.
   • Rebecca Schinsky: Points out the challenges of adapting such a beloved and intricate series, emphasizing the high expectations from its fanbase.

2. Challenges in Adaptation:

   • Length and Depth: Adapting a sprawling series like ACOTAR would require substantial investment in terms of time, special effects, and budget.
   • Content Sensitivity: The Romantasy genre often contains explicit content, which poses challenges for mainstream adaptations aiming for broader audiences.
   • Platform Suitability: Discussion about whether such adaptations are better suited for streaming platforms like HBO rather than traditional theatrical releases.

3. Casting Considerations:

   • Odyssey Adaptation: The conversation shifts to the upcoming "Odyssey" adaptation, with speculation on casting choices.
     • Jeff O'Neill: Expresses hope for actors like Tom Holland as young Odysseus and Anne Hathaway as Penelope.
     • Rebecca Schinsky: Suggests actresses like Kathryn Hahn or Charlize Theron fit the imposing nature of Penelope.

4. Market and Audience Dynamics:

   • Gen Z Consumption: They explore the paradox where Gen Z drives Romantasy reading but prefers less explicit content in visual media.
   • Skepticism About Success: Both hosts express doubts about the sustained interest and box office viability of such adaptations, questioning if the cinematic experience can capture the essence of the books.

Notable Quote:

Rebecca Schinsky:
"And the pitch of like it's so spicy. I think it gets watered down when you take it to the theater... The difference between reading it and seeing it in front of your face is pretty remarkable."
[25:14]

Casting Speculations and Adaptation Fidelity

Timestamp: [31:02] - [35:22]

The discussion shifts to the specific casting for the "Odyssey" adaptation, with playful banter about potential actors and the challenges of maintaining the story's integrity.

Key Points Discussed:

1. Casting Challenges:

   • Jeff O'Neill: Highlights the difficulty in casting for epic tales, mentioning the need for actors who can embody complex characters without relying on over-the-top portrayals.
   • Rebecca Schinsky: Emphasizes the importance of choosing actors who can convey the intellectual and emotional depth of characters like Penelope.

2. Adaptation Strategies:

   • Narrative Techniques: Considering whether the adaptation will use direct excerpts from the book or take creative liberties to make the story more accessible.
   • Visual Representation: Concerns about depicting explicit scenes graphically, which could alienate broader audiences and limit the adaptation's appeal.

Notable Quote:

Jeff O'Neill:
"And I don't know how you get the Odyssey on screen for less than three hours, honestly."
[31:38]

Industry Trends and Future Prospects

Timestamp: [35:22] - [44:48]

Jeff and Rebecca broaden their discussion to include other adaptation projects and literary achievements, reflecting on the state of the publishing and entertainment industries.

Key Points Discussed:

1. Upcoming Book Releases:

   • ND Stevenson’s "Scarlet Mourning": An anticipated release that's been a long-time companion to the author, blending pirate adventures with themes of childhood and societal issues.

2. Literary Awards:

   • Los Angeles Times Book Prizes: The hosts mention the finalists across various categories, expressing their preferences and expectations for the winners.
   • Final Finalists: Including "Ghost Roots" by Pemi Aguda and "God Bless You, Otis Spokemeyer" by Joseph Earl Thomas, among others.

3. Listener Engagement:

   • Encouragement for listeners to reach out via email and participate in events, signifying the podcast’s commitment to community interaction.

4. Adaptation Precedents:

   • Harry Potter vs. ACOTAR: Comparing how "Harry Potter" successfully transitioned from books to a beloved film series, questioning if ACOTAR can replicate that success given its different genre and content.

Notable Quote:

Rebecca Schinsky:
"There's so many books out there that that kind of doesn't matter. The marginal person in that regard."
[28:49]

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [44:07] - [44:48]

As the episode winds down, Jeff and Rebecca reiterate their excitement for upcoming books and adaptations, while also promoting their event and encouraging listener participation.

Final Remarks:

• Event Reminder: Final push for listeners to register for the March 13th event at Powell's.
• Community Engagement: Emphasis on listener emails and interactions to foster a vibrant book-loving community.

Closing Quote:

Jeff O'Neill:
"Thanks so much for listening today."
[44:48]

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Insights and Conclusions

• Adaptation Viability: While Romantasy series like ACOTAR have a dedicated fanbase, their complex narratives and explicit content present significant challenges for mainstream adaptations.

• Casting Importance: The success of adapting beloved literary works heavily relies on casting choices that resonate with the audience and stay true to the characters' depth.

• Market Dynamics: Understanding the evolving preferences of younger audiences, particularly Gen Z, is crucial for the adaptation industry's future, balancing between faithful representations and broad accessibility.

• Community Engagement: Book Riot's podcast not only informs listeners about the latest in the literary world but also actively involves them through events and interactive discussions, strengthening the book-loving community.

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For more information and to engage with Book Riot:

• Website: bookriot.com
• Email: [e-mail]
• Event Registration: Links available in the show notes on the Book Riot website.

Transcript

[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

4 Galaxy S25 Ultra the AI companion that does the heavy lifting so you can do. You get [e-mail] compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Check responses for accuracy.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Hey everybody, just a note here at the top. We had some technical difficulties with the last 15:20 minutes of the show. Basically Rebecca's side is unusable. So I cut it off a little bit at the end of our talk about the Los Angeles Book Prizes and then you hear a little bit at the end. Come join us at Powell's March 13th in Portland, Oregon. If you're around you can find a link in the show Notes to register there. Also thanks to ThriftBooks.com for sponsoring the Book Riot podcast. Frontless foyer got cut out but I want to say thanks to them for sponsoring 19 million books. New used free shipping to the US on orders of over $15. I told two stories in the sponsored spot there that I'll tell real here quick. Here one is. I was at the bookstore recently and I won't name the bookstore but I heard a couple people saying yeah, I usually do my [e-mail] for books. I was like whoa. My daughter like the same day said what do you want for your birthday? She said I would like a Thriftbook.com gift card because she can get a whole bunch of books for not as much money. And when you are trying to build your library, that's a great way to go. Thank you all so much for listening. You can check out everything we're [e-mail] listen shoot us an email podcastookriot.com all right, here we go. This is the Book Riot podcast.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm Jeff O'Neill and I'm Rebecca Schinsky.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Today we are talking about, well, a lot of adaptation news. We were just doing an adaptation show and we kind of touched on some of these, Rebecca, but I think we can get into them a little bit more. I've got an ACOTAR question for you. I meant to ask you the other day, so I'm going to get that to you as well.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm sure I'm very qualified to answer it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, you sort of are, actually. I think in this regard it's like from a generalist perspective on some unfortunate book banning, related news finalists, new books, recent reading. But before all that, we do have a link finally for if you want to come hang out with the Pals the night of March 13th, 7:00 at the Pals downtown here in Portland, Oregon, where I am. Rebecca's not here. She lives in the Internet right now.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I will be there.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You will be there. We are going to be doing the. We're each picking 10 of the most our picks for the 10 most recommendable books of the century. So far, we do not know what the other person has chosen. We got Ernst and Young involved here like they do for the Academy Awards to make sure we have ballot secured. Security. No. We had a staff member, Caitlin, help us out and say, okay. We submitted to her. She said you need to swap this one out. So I know there's a little bit of overlap, but there will not be in the final 10. We'll talk about them. Tickets are 15 bucks, but they go towards buying something at Pals. And if you're going to come to our show at Pals, you're at least spending 50 bucks. So they're essentially free. Right? That's how I'm thinking about it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We're, I think so we're gonna hand sell the crap out of these 20 books and if you magically have read all 20 of them, which I think would be kind of a surprise but would be awesome.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Would be awesome.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You can pick something El, but I think we're gonna, we're gonna try to persuade you on our most recommendable. I have some other ideas about audience participation. Things I wonder what we think about like book riot Bingo might be.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's interesting. I like that. Well, let's do it. Let's do five minutes here because this is what they call this we call content marketing. Rebecca, let's do a sponsor break and we'll come back.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This episode is sponsored by Beartooth by Callan. Wink. Stick around after the show to hear an excerpt from the audiobook provided by our sponsors at Spiegel and Growl by Spotify Audiobooks Two brothers struggle to keep up with their debts in an aging timber house hand built into the Absarca Beartooth Mountains. They live off the grid near Yellowstone national park, surviving in the wilderness after the death of their father. Thad the elder is more capable of dealing with things like the truck registration or the medical bills they can't afford from their father's fatal illness, while Hazen is different, more instinctual. Deeply in tune with the natural world. Desperate for money, they're approached by a shadowy out of towner with a dangerous proposition that will change their lives forever. Set in the grandeur of the American west and evoking the pastoral storytelling of American greats like John Steinbeck and Cormac McCarthy, Beartooth is a breathtaking and remarkable exploration of human endurance, brotherly bonds, revenge and the wildness of nature. This is the ultimate literary heist novel and a thrilling modern day Western in the vein of popular TV shows like American Rust and Yellowstone. Again, stick around after the show to hear an excerpt from the audiobook.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Today's episode is brought to you by Hachette Audio, publisher of you Didn't Hear this From me by Kelsey McKinney.

[Jeff O'Neill]

In you didn't hear this from me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

McKinney explores the murkiness of everyday storytelling like why is gossip considered a sin? And how can we better recognize when it's being weaponized? Also, why do we think we're entitled.

[Jeff O'Neill]

To every detail of a celebrity's personal life?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And how do we define gossip anyway? From the host of the Normal Gossip.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Podcast comes a delightfully insightful exploration of.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Our obsession with gossip that weaves together journalism, cultural criticism and memoir. Also, the audiobook is narrated by Kelsey McKinney herself and it's available for pre order wherever you buy. Audiobooks on sale February 11, so make.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sure to check out you Didn't Hear.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This from me by Kelsey McKinney. And thanks again to Hachette Audio for sponsoring this episode. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the Now It Pays to Discover. Learn more at discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nelson Report so I have a couple ideas. We've talked about them and people can email us at podcast book riot.com if they like these. Usually what happens. I found this happens when you're. You have way more listeners than you are yourself. They have better ideas or spins on or takes on them. So one thought would be, who's got the. Who's got the most recommendable pile, like just who kind of preview draft style? There's one like that. Another one would be in terms of audience participation, could be maybe some Q and A, like on the fly recommendation requests. We could do something like that. We could have people submit their own recommendable book picks. Like, you know, I don't know if we do it on Instagram as a poll or just writing like animals on pieces of paper or whatever. Submit them. See, could there be a show of hands for whether or not people have read this book or not?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

As we go down.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I like that one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What else? Do you have anything else in the chamber that you want to float to the body politics?

[Jeff O'Neill]

You know, I think our expectation is that the audience will be a mix of Book Riot Podcast audience, like Book Riot podcast listeners and Powell's folks who find out about the event and are interested in coming. So I did think Book Riot Podcast bingo would be funny that whether you know the show or not, you can listen for some of, you know, the buzzwords, the common things that come up. Jeff makes an analogy. One of us says wheelhouse, you know, that kind of thing might occur. So I'm going to think about that. I think that might be easy to put together. And one thing that I've been noodling on, that's not really audience participation, but maybe we could have folks guess is you and I were able to conclude, because I had to swap one title and you had to swap two, that that meant three out of our 20 were overlaps and we were trying to figure out what percentage of our reading actually overlaps with each other in recent years, which I. Which we could do because we both have spreadsheets. Sheets.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Like a mail merge situation.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, right. So if you're game, you could, like send me your spreadsheet from the last five years and I'll merge them and we'll see what our overlap is.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I did realize I was looking at this. I'm missing a couple years. They must be in a different spreadsheet or something because I have a reading list that. And I don't know what happened. So it's not. I don't think I have 10 years of comprehensive data.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, yeah, 10 years is too many. Maybe if we did like three or five years.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Eight is too. Eight is too few, 12 is too many.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The. Our mind meld increases with each year. So it might be fun also to see the trajectory of like five years ago versus now.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We'll do this again at the show, but as a way of get people interested. And also if you have, you know, somebody that's in the area, you know, recommend them. Tell them it's a Taylor Swift concert. I don't care. They're going to like the bookstore and they like, you know, just get them there. Oh, I was. That was it. That was the wrong calendar invite. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Clarissa. I sent you the wrong.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Listen, I could be persuaded to do Taylor Swift karaoke afterwards, so. Totally lying.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Could not. That is not going to happen.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I know.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, but we'll do some of this at the show. But what do we mean by most recommendable? We didn't really talk about this too much, so I assume we came out with kind of the same approach. Mine was I didn't want to just pick page turner things that everyone like, yeah, okay, the Thursday Murder Club. That's very. I recommended that to a lot of people, but I want a little meat on the bone is what I'm saying. I want people. I want it to be. I wanted to hit the. The Oshi triple meaning happiness richness.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, that's. I don't know that I did the exact same thing, but I had the same starting place of like, well, it can't just be the last 10 Oprah picks or some combination of books that have all been selected by Read with Jenna. But like, recommendable is a different beast from best books.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It is.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's a different beast from necessarily from unput downable books like page turner can be part of it. I think it has to be really engaging. One of the things that I'm looking for is a maybe not 4 quadrant hit, but widely appealing. And so like, this ruled out a lot of literary fiction because, like, a lot of literary fiction is pretty hard to recommend because of like difficult subject matter or like a more difficult formal structure. So there might be some literary fiction on my list, but like, I'm sure we use some of the same references. I went back and checked like the New York Times 100 from the century, and a lot of those were things that was like, I love this book. I don't know about recommending it. So there's some stuff there, like a really memorable reading experience, something that makes you want to finish it, maybe even something that makes you want to talk about it with somebody where after you read you want to recommend it. Sort of the place that I landed.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. And so most popular books, I mean one I looked at. I'll tell you something that's not on my list. And Rebecca, if you need to plead the fifth with your face or whatever, please do this. But I looked hard at like the Women or the Nightingale by Kristin Hannah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I was like, think about that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's not interesting. I mean, sure, yeah, I think a lot of people like women. Probably if I needed to recommend a book to save my life, like in Bill and Ted's Fighting the Grim Reaper style, maybe I go that drive. But this is our show, this is our event.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You know, we're not trying to keep ourselves from the fiery maw of Satan. I'm just trying to have a good time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I did set like, you know, when we do the drafts, those are forward looking. So usually we haven't read any of those books or one of us has read one or two of our titles in galleys. One of the guidelines I set for myself was I had to have read all of these. So like, I'm not going to recommend you something that I have not actually consumed myself. So that knocks out Kristin Hannah and a lot of those like more popular and airport kinds of fiction for me as well.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Another thought is that this isn't really audience participation, but maybe as a button, as a stinger is like our favorite books that are the least recommendable. Like the thing that's like the top of your internal leaderboard that you have a really time handing off to somebody else. I mean, I mean, honestly, we do not part is not the worst kind of pick like that because you need someone to be able. Like I can hang. You need someone to know. You need to know someone can hang with a book like that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Mm.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And if they can hang with the book like that, they probably already know. Probably already know about it. Or something like this is important.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And like, just by virtue of what sales tell us, most readers are not choosing to hang with that flavor of literary fiction. So I don't find that to be super recommendable. Much as I wish I could just, you know, stand on street corners and hand out copies of Hong Kong and know people are going to read them.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Let me introduce you to creating your own syllabi, Rebecca. It's a great experience. You have to read all this.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I would find that very satisfying.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. And then I will talk at you about it for 45 minutes for three days in a week before we move on to the next thing. I made you read. God, I miss teaching so much.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And then I'll tell you why I was so right to me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Wasn't I right? Because there's this weird thing when you're introducing a book to 18 year olds, especially in class, and you just put on the syllabus. It's almost like you wrote it a little bit. It's kind of like when you tell somebody else's joke and you still get a laugh. Like.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, like you.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, yeah, like, wow. What a person of discernment. He recommended the Iliad. I can't believe it. Anyway, so.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So I'm guessing Odyssey is not at the top of your most recommendable reads.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, if I, you know, pick a homer, I'm picking the Odyssey over the Iliad. Let's see other things about pals. If you do come, please say hello to us from there. It's weird.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes, please do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I know it's weird to meet people that you've heard talking to your ear holes for a while. Yes, I am tall. Yes, Rebecca is short. We can. We can sort of like get our chat GPT prompts of meeting someone like this out of the way. We get it. Thank you so much. It's weird. You like the show? Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You thought I was taller on the Internet. I know it already. It's fine.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think maybe what we could do is when we're standing around talking to people, we could have you stand on a stack of books so that where, like, people know where to look.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You know what, though? That's a great idea because we have to have headshots taken at Powell's the previous day. And I was thinking it's always really funny to watch photographers try to like solve the problem of the massive height difference between us. So, yeah, I'll stand on a stack of books. That's great.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. And if we were any bookstore other than Pals, there wouldn't be enough books. But luckily we're at Pals there. Give me plenty of bucks for you to stand on there. But you stand on the whole pink room if we need to do it that way. So, yeah, I'll be about 45 minutes to an hour and the store is open till 9, so you can wander around. We'll hang around and chat with people and see what's going on there. Okay. I'm sure we'll be mentioning it over the next couple of weeks as we get there, but this is our big splash because the link is available in the show notes Bookriot. Dot com. Listen. Yeah, thanks so much for that. For everyone. All right, news of the week. So the big news we touched on a little bit is that Hulu can the ACOTAR adaptation, for those of you who are not acronym familiar enough with A Court of Thorns and Roses, that is the kind of the. I don't know what you would call this where it is, but like the. The Yaros is the. The big mover right now. Like, it's just selling more copies. It's really broken through in a different kind of way. But this series has been around for 10 years or I don't even know what book we're on. I think five or six. We could be in a different trilogy now. I'm not even sure. The Massiverse is powerful and sprawling. And in our adaptation show, I had. We sort of talked about this as breakthrough potential. You know, to become a Tolkien, a Rowling, a Stephen King, George R.R. martin, you need a big one. Like, that's the difference between the people that are book famous and cultural franchises that endure at least for several decades, if not now. And I kind of. I gotta think that one of these romantic is gonna get a crack at the pinata. I said on that show it'd be very unusual in the history of publishing phenomenons of this scale not to have at least a bad attempt at adaptation. So the news here is that it's. It's canned. The question I asked to you, Rebecca, is if you were an executive at one of these streamers and you had the budget a, would you take a crack at one of these two Romantasy series writ large? Like, do you think you would try it? And if so, why? And if. No, why? And then the second one would be, would you take Moss or Yaros? So that's your differential. I'm coming to you. As you know, I'm the executive and you're the development person. You've got the purse strings. No, no, it doesn't. You have the purse strings. I'm just a producer. I'm saying, okay, Rebecca, which of these are we gonna do? Are we gonna. I'm getting calls from all over the place. We need to have an answer on Romantasy.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, well, you know how I hate to be in charge of things.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I know. That's pressure. That's right. It's like, this is like, is it my birthday?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Let's see. I would take the Yarrows. I would take it for movies. I think developing these as TV series is a mistake on a couple of fronts. That's A much. It's a longer running endeavor. It's more production. If you're going to do eight or ten episodes per book, like one season per book. Eight or ten episodes per book. And you really, I mean, you're in both cases movie or tv, you're counting on the audience being with you for a while. I think Hulu made the right call here with the Sarah J. Maas. Like the Romantasy stuff is starting to cool. They had not started production.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You said that before Onyx Storm and it became the best selling hardcover that Sir Khan has ever seen.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It seems so if this is cooling, I don't know what heat up looking.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay. I don't think I would take Acotar because it's not the big one. I think you get one big one. As you were saying, you get Game of Thrones and then everybody else is the people trying to ride the Game of Thrones coattails. So I would take Yarrows, but I would have tried to take it right after Fourth Wing started popping and produce very quickly, if possible, which is not necessarily possible because there was a lot of special effects. We talked about all the dragons and all the things that would go into this. And then I think you try to put the Fourth Wing movie out right before the second book comes out. You try to put the second book's movie right before Onyx Storm.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So wait, we're going back in time? What's happening? This is. This is a real building. Your oat milk latte that you made me get at 6am is cold in my hand. And you're talking about.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You're building on that momentum, but you're.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Building on the moment. What are you doing right now? What are you doing right now?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, what am I doing right now?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right now?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I guess I'm probably still taking the euros and I'm gonna produce the first movie with an option on the rest of them. But I don't want to commit to having to produce a separate movie for all five because, like, I'm not sure that there's gonna be interest sustained for that in like seven to ten years when the fifth movie would be done.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Because that's five.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And she hasn't even started writing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, there you go. That's. That's a big question. I don't think we're in a George R.R. martin situation. But you know what? There wasn't even such thing as George R.R. martin situation.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So I don't.

[Jeff O'Neill]

She was just, you know, she, she pumped out the first three and she has Said I think not exaggerating that getting Onyx storm out as quickly as she did almost killed her. So it's going to be a while before we get the fourth book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Isn't almost. Not. I think she might be exaggerating. But I'll. It was very difficult. I'll. I'll.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes, very difficult. So, yeah, I would take, I would take fourth wing. I would try to get it done pretty quickly. And then you hope that you're going, you know, hold on to the options for the other four. But I don't think you commit to we're gonna make all five of them.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't know enough deal milking to say if you answered the question correct, I mean, maybe that's something you could do. It doesn't seem, I guess I'll say this, it doesn't seem like I'm in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Charge of lining up.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, right. That was the offer you make. But if you're saying, okay, you're committing to again, they're not going to make you pay a billion dollars. But I want my 3% of the production budget no matter if you make the movies or not. That's $30 million against a billion dollars. Because five movies at $150 million plus marketing, like you're looking at a billion dollar commitment right there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You could be. But like in the case of Acotar here, Disney has the rights to the series through the summer of this year. So it's going to be mid summer 2025 before Sarah J. Maas can make a deal with any other studio. And then what? At least two years before a product could exist. And then you're mid, like at best you're mid-2027. And the first book in the series is already 12 years old.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I mean, let's try to think of, I mean there's really only one series and we don't like talking about the Boy who Shall not, this Boy who Lived by the Woman who Shall Not Be Named. But those movies did start coming out before the books were done, but it wasn't as long as this would be. I think those are 2001 and the books were 97 and first book came out.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I, I think those were a different beast in another important way because they were like, they did hit all four quadrants. They were family experiences. And so you might have one person in a household who had read the books or as was my experience, like one of my partner's best friends in college had read the first book. None of us had read them yet. And he was like, this movie is coming out. I think you guys will like it. We went to see it and that is how I found my way into the books. Like, the first movie made me into a reader. It's possible that a Fourth Wing book or a Fourth Wing movie might attract some viewers who haven't read the books and then turn them on to the rest of the series. But I don't, I honestly, I don't know how much ceiling is left for that. Like, if you've been hearing about it for two years on TikTok and you haven't picked it up yet, are you gonna be that interested in going to the movie when you don't know that much about it or you know enough to know you're not that into it? I don't know.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think there's so many books out there that that kind of doesn't matter. The marginal person in that regard. I think it's. I think the movie question is a good one. Like there's things that been. I mean, Game of Thrones was much smaller of a book than Onyx Storm by far. And then it was good and it struck a chord. And Lightning in the Bottle is not a business plan, as has often been said, or some version of that. But you've got awareness and attention here. I think your point about the quadrants is the one that I'm stuck on and I'm guessing Hulu is maybe even stuck on for this one because I think both of these. I know less about A Court of Thorns and Roses. I have had the experience of reading 4th Wing, so I do know these shows want to be on hbo. These are R rated enterprises and they're not really Hulu Jams in this particular regard. And I'm not sure that they're filmed are. An R rated fantasy franchise would be a first. I think this is like 50 shades of gray meets Game of Thrones. You need to show some skin and people's heads are going to get chopped off.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Like that. That is tough in the movie theater. I think it's only. It's HBO or bust for either of these.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And the pitch of like it's so spicy. I think it gets watered down when you take it to the theater. Because as you've pointed out, like the descriptions in the book are really graphic because she is like Yarrows is describing who's doing what else's body parts and how, how that's feeling. And then lightning's coming out of your fingers and it's great. And you don't get typically like that kind of narrated voiceover of a sex scene in a movie. You just see some. You see that sex is happening. And there are ways to shoot and imply that like this is a hot moment these people are having. But it won't be this like spicy descriptiveness that happens in the book or like the zooming in on any certain parts or anything to indicate who's touching what. Like that would be porn. To. To graphically depict what's on the page would require porn. And they're not gonna do that. Like nobody's actually looking for that. The difference between reading it and seeing it in front of your face is pretty remarkable. So I don't know how much appeal that holds. Like if you're maybe if you just really like the tension in the story or if you like the sci fi tropes that are coming up. As a lot of folks have said, they really enjoyed all the sci fi and fan or fantasy tropes primarily that come up and you want to see that. Just the dynam the characters play out and like the Hunger Games of it all. That might be fun to watch. But the big selling point is this is so spicy. And I think what you get on screen is like the door slams, they back up against the wall, there's sounds of moaning, lightning.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay, enough. Thank you very much. Yeah, that's. We're already past right. Want to be doing right now. But I know, I know what you mean.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You know, like that's. It's not the same as like the pages long descriptions of what's happening. I just don't know that that actually people would go to see it. The people who love these books would go to see them. But I just don't know that it's like the actual experience that they're looking.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

For, I don't think. And you can't take your kids. I mean the Marvel, the Wicked, like the big. You can't take your kids to that. So I don't think. Yeah, I hear what you're saying about the theater, but I think it doesn't work because it costs too much money and the kind of marketing and special effects and I frankly don't think HBO is going to take it because they already have a dragon. So like people naked and doing weird.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Stuff, it costs so much money and there would be so many episodes. Like, I mean ultimately this was not the opportunity the option you gave me. But like, I think if I were given a. Like would you want to make a deal on a romantasy rather than you pick one. I think I would have just said, no. Like, I'm not gonna make that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No, no. No one's an option. I don't know.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's kind of where I ended up, too, frankly. And doing the products, I was like, I don't see how I roll the dice. Because even if I get to say which studio, you can be the head of any studio. Which do you pick? You kind of run through them. And I think HBO the only option. But they've got. They've got a dragon show with people getting freaky on it. And it's weird to say out loud.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It'S dragon riders who do it. Like, that's what we've been calling it all.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And then beat each other to a pulp and near death. Oh, Flight club. They could call it flight club. Anyway, so, like, I. I think I might be. I think we may not see these. That's where I got. I think we may not see.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think Hulu made the right call. And this also, like, sets a precedent because the gyro stuff, as far as we know, like, it hasn't been cast, it's not in production. It's theoretically possible for that studio to back out as well. And they may be. They may be seeing this happening. Like, you can see that happening and say, either, great, they're clearing the way for us, or, oh, maybe we've made the wrong call too.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right? Yeah. I think it's really fascinating because you look, again, I kind of went through the studios or the streamers, Right. Like, what Netflix isn't going to do. I mean, again, no, there is a defang the hell out of it version, which that's.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Maybe people want to see.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

If I had to do something, I think I defang it. If I have to do something and I make it into a theatrical run, that's what I do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, the theatrical run, I think, is.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The only option you have to make it. You have to figure out a way to make a PG13, or barring that, you find a streamer, that's okay. And the only one that really is, is hbo. Like. And even some of that stuff that HBO got away with in the early seasons of Game of Thrones, in terms of explicitness, I know we're in a different administration, but I do think we've moved on from, like, what we are writ large, willing to put up with on screen. Like that. A lot of that stuff that got filmed the first two seasons get through doesn't get filmed that way today.

[Jeff O'Neill]

There's that. And also that I mean, I think this is a really interesting contradiction in Gen Z media consumption. Like Gen Z is driving a lot of the romantasy reading and they like the spicy books. But Gen Z media consumers want less sex on TV and movies. So does that apply here? Do you. Are they happy to read it but they don't want to see all the story?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Or is this because it's so popular? Because it is here and they don't want to see it on screen? Like is it chicken and the egg or yin and yang or whatever?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Or is it right? Or would fourth wing be an exception where like I don't normally want to see explicit sex on screen, but I'll go do that. I'll see it for fourth Wing, like right. Or is it. I don't like it on screen so I'm migrating to books from. For, you know, erotic material. It's really.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Interesting.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think so. I think the prediction markets on one of these two big romantasy things getting a big adaptation took a real hit. I mean it sounds dumb to say, but I think this is indicative of more of a problem. Then things had some hits and they're part of Disney and they've got the money, but the other piggy banks, Amazon and Apple, they're not going to touch this with the NC17ish situation they. They have there. And I'm sure the price isn't cheap either. You know, just. Just to make the whole thing. That's a real commitment. And we haven't seen a friend. I mean it's Dune, right? I mean you look at dunes like could you dune this? Oh, somehow like make it more highbrow. Almost like you make it more. Maybe I'm wish casting now.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You're wish casting?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't think you want that though.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Dune already was pretty spare and like a lot of it's there in Dune. That's on the speech.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It means a desert for it's already an allegory.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, that's right. Whereas fourth wing I don't think is an allegory for anything.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Nothing subtle happening on fourth wing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No, nothing subtle happening there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be to be. The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack WelchMBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and has many campuses including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia. Okay, speaking of nothing subtle. When you release the first image of your Odysseus and you just Damon wearing a horse mane, helmet's like.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, all right, got it noted. Ready?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We're gonna, we're gonna missionary position this adaptation. That is what's happening here.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Listen, Hot Greek summer. The countdown is already on.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Use three exclamation points in the headline here. What else to say about this? I'm not sure to have anything else. So it's going to be Damon is Odysseus. It's going to be in ancient Greece. That's all that we know.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's going to be long. Almost definitely. They're using the word epic in. I mean the book is epic, but I don't know how you get the Odyssey on screen for less than three hours, honestly.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So listen, if ever you were. I mean between the Brutalist having an intermission and Nolan having the success he had with the long ass Oppenheimer, we might be in serious heat. Check Nolan. Like this could be. This could be a real. A little too much slack on the line for Nolan to do Whatever you.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Think this is gonna be Ridley Scott's four and a half hour director's cut of Napoleon.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Robert Altman's Popeye where they built a village in Malta. That's still there, by the way, one of the great disasters.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Wow, that's bonkers. If we were gonna bet on it today, I would bet at least three hours for this. And Daemon is just the first of the. We've seen a list of cast that have been announced, but not the roles that they'll be playing. So I think we said on a previous episode, Tom Holland is also in this. My previous guest and the thing I was really hoping for was Tom Holland as young Odysseus, Daemon as older Odysseus. I think this tells us Holland is very likely gonna be Telemachus, but we don't know who like Lupita Nyong'o is going to be. We don't know who Zendaya is gonna be. There's a whole Anne Hathaway is in this. I think now my money is. Is on Anne Hathaway as Penelope.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Nah. Theon, I would bet. Seriously.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, Charlize Theron. Oh, yeah, that's. That's right. She's closer to Damon's age.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. We have all kinds of people screwing with Odysseus parts for those ladies. Nuongo, Zendaya, we've got Circe, Calypso, We've got sirens. We got all sorts of.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Going to be so great.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's going to be really interesting to see. Yeah. There's a part of me like this is the Nolan's baroque era, which this could turn into a Coppola. Like, you know, it could. I'm not sure though I will say that the Odyssey. You've got good material. And he. It will look amazing no matter what.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It will.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It will look amazing here.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I'm interested in like, are they going to lift the dialogue straight from the.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Book and if they're not speaking Greek. Yeah. Okay. There you go.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right? Yeah. Whose translation? Or will it be more like the Return which took the storyline but wrote their. You know, like they're not speaking in pro. In like any kind of poem situation. Nolan's not gonna do that. I don't think he's gonna do that either because he wants this to be accessible. Like this. Nolan is shooting for highbrow. Like not four quadrant because you're not taking the little kids, but like a highbrow summer blockbuster coming out July 17th. Like that's right smack in the middle.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You know, I wanted this until you just said something adjacent to it. What if Nuongo is like the narrator who's saying like verses, introductions to the various to kind of connect the things together that she's.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Or anyone that would be.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is a great voice.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. So we're. We're gonna put together the hot Greek summer syllabus for anybody who wants to come hang out with us doing that next year. But. But I think like we're gonna do maybe some Circe. We'll read the Odyssey together. You've pitched. Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? I'm deeply on board for that. See where else we get. Maybe. But that's like. I think that's enough. That's enough to like build out a nice halo of Odyssey themed things to keep us going.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's right. I guess kind of meeting the middle of Dragonautica and Literary adaptation is Miranda July and stars with the Z are going to adapt All Fours and Godspeed and good luck to the Enterprise. This seems like a tough hang, but. But. Well, you. What do you think?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, I think that there. It could go several ways. Like the.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm sure it could.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The. The book has a lot of teeth, you know. And we were just talking about how the Night adaptation really watered down the story. I don't know how you could water down All Fours. It's like, it's deeply weird in points. So I think there are scenes that will be potentially really great. Like I want to see how a set dresser does the weird ass hotel room that this character makes over over time. Like that's going to be fun to watch. I want to see who they cast for it. Also, some of the most memorable scenes in the book are pretty graphic. And also in the fourth wing zone of. I don't think they're going to actually show it on screen. I saw comments somewhere were like, what are they going to do with. There's. There's a scene with a tampon. And I was like, oh God, I had memory hold that. And also I needed to go back.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It was a much more recent read.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

For you for this one. I actually think you can do less of the explicit stuff because so much of it is about her being adrift, sort of existentially adrift. And you can do the relationship between the two characters. That's the talking, yearning, looking each other across. Truck stop stuff.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. A lot of like very meaningful interpretive dance.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. What do you think about the scene where she narrates to the other woman what she wants to happen and then they do it to each other. Do you think that's going to be a whole. Is that a three episode arc or a six episode arc? That scene?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think you get like two minutes of that and like, oh, I wish that people could see you squirming just thinking about it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

There's not a chair big enough to take the kinds of body contortions I'm doing right now.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that maybe you get like the first few sentences of that and then like a fade away if they do that at all. This piece about it in Vulture, this was kind of all over the place. But Fran Hefner wrote about it for Vulture and did a little potential casting. And the first thing was she was like, well, I guess Miranda July could play the main character. And that had not occurred to me and I need that not to happen.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We can't do that's crazy.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We can't do that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We're not doing that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, we cannot do that. One of the things that makes the book such a hit is that so many women related to the character's story and Miranda July is not widely relatable. Like, not if you're trying. She's just not. But Katherine Hahn gets floated in this piece. Like, Katherine Hahn would be kind of great. Like, she can do zany. She can definitely do, like, angsty and high strung. She's willing to, like, put her body on the line and kind of of go all in for an interesting role. And she did some of that in the Tom Parada adaptation, Mrs. Fletcher that she was in. So, like, that would be interesting. I mean, there's no talk that she's attached to it, but somebody like that who's really, like, kind of willing to go there. I think I am. Maybe. I'm. I'm really interested in seeing how this goes. Like, I don't wish to reread All Fours, but I'm very curious from, like, a science perspective about it. This adaptation goes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. I didn't really thought about the casting situation. I like Kathryn Hahn quite a bit. I think there's. There's something about this character, and maybe it's the Jalius that reads as a little more snooty, or Han is more. I mean, she can do kind of condescending, but there's sort of a arrogance about. An intellectual and cultural arrogance about this person.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That I don't really like. Weirdly. I mean, I'd like Theron for it weirdly. Like, she kind of has a magisterial quality. Like, she seems imposing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Amy Adams would have been good for this. Like, the character in Night is an artist. Thinks that she's not like the other moms because she comes from that, like, highbrow art world. I think she could have been interesting there, but she just didn't. A movie like this. So I don't think we'll get Amy Adams. It's gonna. And, like, stars. I don't know how racy Stars is willing to be. They did Outlander, which I understand is. Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

There you go. I was like, I name one series on Stars with a Z.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right. Which is also like, are you that excited when your adaptation is coming out from stars?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think in this day and age. Yeah. I think you are. Especially with a literary novel like this. Like, it's better than no adaptation at all. We still don't have a Jonathan Franzen adaptation. Not even on Stars with a Z. Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But Meryl Streep has been cast in one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What is the chance Is that. Is that greater than a 21 chance of actually happening?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I need to believe. So yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's a no. That's what that you just said no right there. That's a no.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Give a girl some wish casting. Let me have a moment.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We're going to get into legal land here in a second. But I missed this news the other day until you put it in the agenda that ND Stevenson's latest book Creator of Nimona is coming out and he says it's been his constant companion throughout his life. 15 years working on. It's called Scarlet Mourning. Two orphans. Oh, weird. Orphans in a fantasy setting. Well there's two of them this time in a crew of pirates on a world saving journey. Touching what means to be a kid inheriting a world that's been fundamentally broken by adults who came before you on the nose. Maybe it's got the. I think he wrote and drew this because it very looks like Nimona. I don't actually remember on original too. It's been. It was a 600 page draft originally. I'm guessing it's not going to be that. So anyway that's the news there. I'm sure. Let's see. It's September. I wonder if this is a good. This would be an interesting conversation to have. I wonder what. What interesting things I could to Andy Stevenson. So that's. That's going to be a big release. I think there's a lot of goodwill towards this. There is a multiple like middle grade YA into adult fantasy readers and of comics. Yeah. Really cool. It looks cool. My kids. This will. There will be a copy of this in my house. I can guarantee you that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And it like it took a long time between the book release of Nimona and the net Netflix film adaptation.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And they're quite different.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They are quite a bit different. And the Wild Robot is doing so well right now. And it's in that zone that like this same reader and like a family friendly story zone that we're talking about that now. I'm rooting for there to be an adaptation announcement about this before the book is even out and like let's get the movie going while the Wild Robot is still hot. I want to go to theater and see Scarlet Morning.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Prize prizes. The LA Times book prize finalists are out. Let's see. These are just finalists. They have a first fiction award which I always like to see. Cinema Love by Jeming Tang which got a lot of talk earlier in the year, but then kind of, I don't know, didn't do as well. Pemi Aguda's Ghost Roots continues to be hot. Joseph Earl Thomas's God Bless you, Otis Spokemeyer, which you've talked about before, and a couple books I haven't heard of or at least had forgotten. Jessica Emerson's Olive Days and Julia Zabel Beascoa's what We Tried to Bury grows Here. I'm skipping the achievement in audiobook production because that's famous. People read books and I'm not in here. I'm not here for any more reification of that. If we go down to fiction, very cool. We see Everett or James. Season of the Swamp by Yuri Herrera. Translated by Lisa Dillman. You're all fours. Janine Capo Crusette, say hello to my little friend. Which can only assume is Al Pacino fan fiction. And then Rita Bullwinkle's Headshot, which is awesome. You know they have a mystery through our category. Yeah, they've got some genre, they've got young adult. It's a good lineup. It's worth perusing to see. Current Interest is a category which kind of blends cultural, political, environmental things all in the same times. You get the coats and you get Robin Wall Kimmerer in the same category, which unless you generally have a nonfiction category, you are not going to see that happen very often. Very cool awards. As always. I would expect James to take the fiction prize, which is the big picture winner.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The ceremony is April 25th, so this is. I believe that's after the Pulitzers will be announced. So could be the end of the Percival Everett season long sweep. Good luck to everybody. Glad to see you. Love the first fiction thing. Yes. He's getting a lifetime achievement.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

A lifetime achievement award. Yeah, that's right. Has the book out Heart of Stillness, which we really like. And this is a good time to say, hey, you know what, let's. Let's recognize them while they're still around. You can find a link to register to come to CSF pals March 13th. You can find the show notes there as well. There'll also be links to. For our substack, our Instagram, the Patreon first edition. It's all there. It's all great, great stuff going on over here. Oh, you can email podcastookriot.com I'm sure there's something I ask people to email about. I'm always, I always like the listener emails. I enjoy it. I really do at this point. Talk to us, let us know. All right. Rebecca we'll talk to you soon.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Thanks so much for listening today. Please enjoy this excerpt from the audiobook edition of Beartooth by Callan Wink. Thanks to our sponsors at Spiegel and Growl by Spotify Audiobooks.

[C]

Only A sliver of ice remained in the cooler, but the beer was so cold it made the back of his throat ache. Thad downed half a bottle in one gulp and then released a prodigious belch. He'd stashed a bag of elk jerky in the truck and they ripped and chewed the salty meat until their jaws hurt, washing it down with the beer. Belching and yawning and stretching their arms and backs. They sat on the dropped tailgate and Thad decided that instead of driving the maze of logging roads in the dark, they should just camp out one more night, handle the transaction out here in the woods tomorrow, and then head home after all the contraband had been transferred. I'm going to start a fire. Hazen rummaged around in the cooler for another beer. He'd had four already, about as many as Thad ever liked him to have. Something about booze made Hazen argumentative, less pliant than he normally was. No fire and you're done after that one. Find a spot to crash. Take your pack with you. Don't leave it in the truck. My sleeping bag is wet. I'm going to start a fire and dry it out. Why is your bag wet? I don't know. It just is. Well, that's your own stupid fault. It's not that cold anyway. You'll be fine. You could have been airing it out this whole time instead of bitching and drinking all my beer. If I can have a fire, then at least let me have another beer. He had finished his last one and three long drinks, half chewed, jerky still in his mouth. No fire, no more beer. Find a spot to crash and I'll see you in the morning. That's bullshit. One more beer. I'll pay you back. No. Why? You know why. Go sleep. Hazen took one more piece of jerky and reached for the cooler. Thad chopped his wrist down and then Hazen slid from the tailgate and stomped off into the dark, dragging his pack behind him. Thad could hear the sound of breaking branches, incoherent muttering. Thad got himself another beer and reclined against his foul smelling pack and yawned. Hazen could be a royal pain in the ass. He probably should just forbid him from drinking at all. Last year Thad had to pull him out from under a pack of firefighters who were intent on rearranging his face. He'd gotten a call from the bartender at the Blue Goose who said he should probably get over there quick before Hazen got his neck broken. By the time he arrived, Hazen had already talked his way into a pretty sizable ass beating. It was a small town and no local would have let Hazen get under his skin. But it was late summer and there were wildfires burning all over in the mountains. Town was full of hotshot crews from down south. Thad never did find out exactly what Hazen had said when he got to the bar. Three short, wide Mexican looking dudes were about to start applying their $300 whites to Hazen's skinny midsection. Luckily, Thad had been able to pull Hazen out and smooth things over. He bought drinks. He wasn't sure if the men spoke English. He pointed at Hazen and tapped his head, spiraling his finger around his ear. Loco, he said. If he never had to go to town, Hazen would be just fine. Thad figured. Hell, during some era not too far past, Hazen would have probably been happier and more well adjusted than Thad. He could have trapped, lived in the woods, got royally drunk once a year at some sort of mountain man rendezvous, and spent the next year working off his hangover alone in the mountains skinning beaver and talking to himself.