B (2:51)

Okay. Okay, yes.

A (2:53)

So, okay. Why this is important. I am fussy when I sleep and I cannot sleep with earrings in. I used to not be able to sleep with earrings in. I have a total of nine holes in my ears and I love it. But I will not be putting nine earrings in every day and taking nine earrings out.

B (3:15)

Right.

A (3:16)

So I noticed my. I was at this event and my friend had earrings in and I'm like, wait a minute. And I was. She had a lot of piercings too. We were talking about it. I'm like, oh, I just can't sleep with them. And she's like, have you tried flat back earrings? And I was like, excuse me, I've never heard of that. I had no idea what she was talking about. And so I will, I'll insert a little video here so you can see what it looks like. But basically it just lays flat so you don't get poked in the back of your head with earrings. And I am so delighted because I've officially kept these in. I mean, these have been in for months now, which is crazy for me for somebody who can't have things on her body like earrings and whatnot when they're sleeping. So I thought I would bring this as just a general recommendation. I got these from Amazon. Nothing fancy. I was looking things up as I was prepping for the episode and I'm like, oh dear, this is a whole like rabbit hole I could go down. I know Etsy has a ton and there's just other companies too. Of course you can go really fancy and get like gold earrings and things like that. But now I was on Etsy and I'm like, oh, the search history is one of a kind. Flat back earrings. And I'm like, dang it, they have a little ghosty. They've got a moon. I'm like, I want all of them. But I will for now refrain. And just wanted to bring this as a concept. So my loving lately is flat backed earrings.

B (4:37)

You know that whoever invented these had the same issue. They needed some sleep friendly earrings. And it's always so fun when you're like, thank you. Someone, an entrepreneur out there who had this issue and knew that it was a thing and yes, solved my problem.

A (4:54)

And they screw on and off too. They're actually okay to get in and out. My nails are kind of long right now, so I can't.

B (5:00)

That was my next question is how. How do you like take them in and out?

A (5:03)

There we go. They just screw and.

B (5:05)

Okay.

A (5:06)

Yeah, you just screw them in and out. And there's my little post in the little circle.

B (5:10)

Okay. Have you heard of. Because I was googling flatback earrings while you were talking so that I could get a better visual and cords club came up. Did you. Have you gotten anything from them?

A (5:22)

No, I haven't, but that was what I was one of the ones that came up. Did you see the ghost flat back stud?

B (5:28)

I did.

A (5:28)

Oh, I want it.

B (5:30)

They have really like dainty earrings too. And I love especially if you have multiple piercings to have like some dainty ones up top.

A (5:38)

So cute. And I like ones that are mismatched. Like I don't want to match. Personally, I like a mismatch, but I really love this ghost. Anyway.

B (5:50)

Okay, hold on. I'm adding. Well, good one. And I. I love a very super specific loving lately.

A (5:58)

I was thinking, I'm like, no one's gonna care. And then I thought, you know what though? Some of our best loving lately's ever were like things that people like. Your hand cream. We you. So many people bought that. I think it was last month. I was like, oh my gosh. Like you just think like, who's gonna know? Who's gonna.

B (6:12)

My cucumber era.

A (6:13)

Your cucumber era. That was so fun. We need to do a loving lately wrap up of some. So like our greatest hits and ones that I no longer recommend. Like I wanted to do that for.

B (6:23)

That's a good idea.

A (6:24)

Yeah. Because there's one thing that's on my hit list. My I no longer recommend you list. I'm looking at you. Shark, vacuum. Hate it. Oh no.

B (6:33)

That's a bummer.

A (6:35)

Yeah.

B (6:35)

Anyway, okay, well, my loving lately is a creator. And this is a book talk creator who goes by Earl Gray, please. And it's. It's Earl Gray and then pls. And her name is Aubry. And I don't really have much to say except for I just love her videos. She does a mix of book reviews, but she also like, she'll do videos with her mom sometimes and her mom will share what she's reading. She does a lot of vlog content which I really like. Like see how much I can read in the day. She's doing a little TBR wheel video right now, which is really fun, where she's taking all these books on her TBR and then doing like random wheel generator to figure out what she's going to read next to help her tackle her tbr. And what I like the most about her is that she reads very widely. Kind of like you and I do, Tina, where it's like you'll catch her reading a thriller but also a literary fiction, some short stories, a novella, a big book. She kind of reads all over the place and that's how I read too. And it's hard to find creators on booktok that have a really strong presence but read similarly to me and I really like that. So I recommend her content and that is Earl gray, please on TikTok.

A (8:03)

I love when folks are able to have creativity when it comes to their videos because I am just not somebody that does. I am more or less a. Well, I have creativity. Right, but it's.

B (8:16)

Yeah, you do.

A (8:17)

I don't use like TBR wheels or like how much can I read?

B (8:20)

Like I think that's with your people that recommend books to you to keep track of it. What people recommend books to you and you write them down and you put.

A (8:30)

Oh yeah, I did do that. I haven't gone back to it unfortunately. I did read some of the recommendations though that came out. So that is good.

B (8:37)

That is good.

A (8:38)

Yeah. But I do follow her as well. Looks like her name is Aubrey and I want to say she's. Is she on YouTube as well?

B (8:46)

I'm not sure but I would, I would love that.

A (8:48)

I think she is. Anyway, that's neither there.

B (8:51)

Her TikTok videos kind of do have a little bit of like a YouTube feel.

A (8:55)

I think she looks like she's new to YouTube.

B (8:59)

Yeah.

A (8:59)

Awesome. Thank you for bringing that. Always love another fellow creator. Mood reader.

B (9:07)

Yes.

A (9:08)

Alrighty. All right. For my latest read I have been on a thriller run a little bit. I have had some good luck with thrillers because for my latest read I picked up Next of Kin by Kia Abdullah. And this book has been on my TBR for a long time, ever since Renee recommended it on the show, whenever that was. And I just thought oh my God, this sounds terrible. And also compelling. So what it's about, it is about Layla Syed who is working this ordinary workday. She is an aunt to. I think he's three and on the way she's like this architect that runs this architecture firm. On the way to work she gets a phone call from her brother in law and he's like hey, can you take Max to school because I have an emergency. The guy Works in it. And you know, it's sort of one of those things that's very time sensitive. So she's like, sure, no problem. They're in London, she gets him and the brother in law puts Max in the back seat, in the car seat. She drives to work and then she gets a phone call from her partner at the firm. He's like, I forgot the plans, blah, blah, blah. It's like a big thing, right? And so she forgets Max in the car and he dies. And that is truly in the synopsis. That's the whole book. Because he dies because she forgets him in the car. And it's the hottest day of the year. She left him for about three hours. And so naturally, what follows is just the most horrifying thing you can imagine as a parent or as a person that loves a child. What would you do? So the state, or whatever the equivalent is goes and, you know, has to put her on trial. They have to like, figure out, like, were you responsible? Did you do this on purpose? Was it an accident? If it was an accident, what are the consequences? And so this ends up being a bit of a legal thriller. And what I love about this is you really go through it with all of the characters. The father feels guilt because he was like, if I had only just taken him to school like I was supposed to. Of course the aunt feels guilt because she left this kid in the car. But also he was rear facing. She. It was something that was not her normal route. And she forgot. She just forgot. And I'm like, I literally, I mean, I've done this so many times where I'll be like, I'll ask my oldest daughter if the baby's back there. She's like, yeah, like, what do you mean? Like, of course she's back here. Right. But it's just one of those things where you like check and double check. Like, did I lock the doors? Is the kid with me? Whatever. So you can sort of see how potentially that could happen. And then of course, you also feel for the mom and the mom. The mom and the aunt are best friends. Like, they're sisters, they're tight. And the woman who, you know, left Max in the car is about 10 years older than her sister. And so she did a little bit of raising her when they were younger because something happened to their mother. And so there's also this tension between them in sort of a mother daughter type way. This is not your typical legal thriller. This surprised me in many ways. It's emotional, but also the courtroom Scenes are fantastic. It is not dry, though. I would not call this a legal thriller. I would call this a psychological thriller, because you really are getting in the weeds and getting in the psyche and the complication of what happens to this young boy. It's really good. I was reading it and I was like, I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it. And then I was like, oh, God, this is five stars. Like, I, at a certain point was like, oh, I see what's happening. And I like it. So not to mention, you also have. Layla is also married, and she's estranged from her husband, so that's a whole thing. It is an excellent thriller that will have you pointing fingers at everybody, essentially, and taking some of the blame yourself. You feel bad. Like, I feel bad for everybody. You know, I feel bad for even, like, you know, blaming her a little bit. It was an honest mistake. Or was it? You know, it's just so complex and so good. I loved this one. I've read now three of her books. This one's by far my favorite. And this was Next of Kin by Kia Abdullah.

B (13:47)

I've heard really good things about her books.

A (13:51)

They're great. That's complex.

B (13:55)

It sounds like a hard read.

A (13:57)

Yes.

B (13:58)

Was it, like, super gratuitous or graphic?

A (14:01)

No, no.

B (14:02)

When it comes to, like, what happened to the no kid and things like.

A (14:05)

That, uh, because he, you know, they do a little bit get into the postmortem and sort of what happened to him. So that part was rough. But that's very much in the beginning. The. The hardest part to read is the grief of. Especially the kid's mom.

B (14:20)

Of course, you're just like, oh, my.

A (14:21)

God, what would you do? But really, really excellent story.

B (14:26)

Well, good. I am bringing a book that I. I checked to see if it had been talked about before, because it kind of seemed like a book that you and. And. Or Renee might have read before. And it is True Crime Story by Joseph Knox. And this was brought actually way back in episode nine, in the early days of BookTok, et cetera. Renee brought it as a shelf edition, so not as a book that had been read before, but a shelf edition. And I don't think she ever brought it back to the show to follow up on it. So I'm going to do that for all of us. And this one is really interesting because the author is Joseph Knox, but Joseph Knox is also a character.

A (15:14)

Oh.

B (15:15)

But it is not nonfiction. It is fiction, which is something that is kind of not debated, but it's confusing online and et cetera but it is 100% can confirm a fictional story. And it starts out in December of 2011 and Zoe Nolan, who is a 19 year old Manchester University student, walked out of a party taking place in the shared accommodation where she had been living for three months and she was never seen again. And we follow this disappearance through interviews with Zoe's closest friends and family. We begin piecing together what really happened back in 2011. But there are some versions of events that overlap and align perfectly with one another, but others stand in stark contrast. There are some glaring inconsistencies and discrepancies to people's stories and something is not adding up. And then we have crime writer Joseph Knox, who is this meta character, who's also the author who comes in to make sense of the case where everyone seems to have something to hide. Zoe Nolan may be missing, but her story is only just beginning. So I will say I really enjoyed the journey of this book. I love mixed media and this was told in interviews. We also get some newspaper clippings and things like that, and it was really a fun book to hold in your hands. I did this in tandem reading, so I listened to it while also holding the book. But I felt like there were way too many characters. We were interviewing people non stop and normally I don't get confused by a big cast, but this just felt extensive. There were so. There were so many characters and on top of that, a lot of the mystery got weighed down by these really convoluted and irrelevant side stories from the roommates and other characters that didn't really add a whole lot to the actual mystery. And this is a, this is a long book, I want to say. It's like 400 plus pages. So some of these stories just went on for a little too long in my opinion. The funny thing is though, the reason why I even picked this up is because I. I thought it was nonfiction and I was feeling true crime. But like I said, this actually was really meta, so I kind of still felt like I got to scratch that itch a little bit, even though it was fiction. I did listen to the audiobook and I do think that that is the way to go if you want to try this one. Like I said, it has a full cast, which definitely made the experience more engaging. But also at the same time, if you have the print copy or want to grab it from the library, it was fun to kind of look through the newspaper clippings, but I enjoyed the audio the most. So even though this one wasn't totally for Me, I think if you liked, again, mixed media storytelling and you're into true crime or thriller mysteries or a story of a disappearance, I would recommend giving the audiobook a try. I did end up having some aha moments at the end with everything that ended up happening. And that is True Crime Story by Joseph Knox.

A (18:37)

I remember this one. I think I tried it and DNF'd it because I was like, there's a lot going on here. It's a lot. I wonder why he inserted himself like that. Does that become clear or like inserted a fake version of himself?

B (18:51)

Yeah, it's like a fake version of himself. And I don't know, except for that. Maybe this author has a big ego. I don't know.

A (18:58)

Maybe. I don't know. He felt it was right. Yeah, no, it's just interesting. And I think it's interesting. It sort of made it stand out right. From a traditional story because people are talking about it.

B (19:10)

But it was unique. Like, if anything, I will give it that. And again, I think if you think if you enjoy mixed media and things like that, this could be one that would work for a lot of people. I thought it was fine.

A (19:23)

Yeah. And I like a mixed media story, especially when you're on audio or doing a tandem read about it.

B (19:29)

Yes.

A (19:30)

Well, the time has come for us to share some ugly covers. And I'm calling this Ugly Covers. I think originally we said books with covers we hate, but, yeah, you know, either one, either one. These are covers that are going to give us a visceral reaction for one reason or another. Or they're doing what they're supposed to do, but you just don't like it. You think it's not cute. And I, you know as well as anybody else that we are visual readers. Yes, we certainly do judge books by their covers. And a good cover can make or break.

B (20:05)

I have.

A (20:06)

Oh, I'm excited to see what you've got.

B (20:09)

I am too. I do want to ask you kind of a general question. Are there any things that you can think about that you know off the top of your head you do not like wings?

A (20:18)

Hate them, sure.

B (20:21)

So fast.

A (20:22)

Butterfly, Cicada, wings. Any like that book Swarm? I don't know it. I don't know. Swarm is it.

B (20:31)

I sent you a picture of it.

A (20:32)

Oh, of course you did. To torture me.

B (20:35)

And then I was like, wait a minute. That might have been actually mean.

A (20:38)

No, I'm gonna look that up right now. And if you're on YouTube, you're seeing it. Swarm book cover. Why am I doing this to myself. I guess it's the because by Jennifer Lyle.

B (20:49)

Wait, I'm looking it up.

A (20:50)

Oh, no, I found it. I hate it so much. I hate it. Okay, so this is the specific Thus Warm. Thus Warm by Andy Marino. Oh, my God, I hate it so much. Okay, specifically, what I don't like, I can't even look at my second screen because it's over there. I don't like wings where you can see through them and see the segments. It makes me crazy. Also, a secondary thing I hate are holes, like clusters of holes.

B (21:20)

I don't like those either. I can't actually look at that. That is. That is.

A (21:24)

Or even a hive. I don't like it.

B (21:28)

I don't like a beehive or a WASP hive. I can't like stuff either.

A (21:32)

Yeah, it's making comfy.

B (21:34)

That's like my reoccurring nightmare that I have if I'm stressed and I know that I'm in duress is when I start dreaming about holes on my body.

A (21:43)

Oh, God. On your body?

B (21:46)

That's like a nightmare. It's a nightmare that I have regularly.

A (21:49)

Mine is a beating heart and you can like hear it and it's like going faster in your dreams are and faster. Yes. I hate the sound of like. It's like creeps me out to even think about it. Oh, yeah. Why are we doing this to ourselves?

B (22:05)

Why are we doing.

A (22:05)

It's kind of fun though.

B (22:07)

We're masochists, I guess.

A (22:08)

I guess so.

B (22:09)

Okay. Anything else that you can think of design wise or like things on covers, like, how do you feel. How do you feel about faces on covers? Because that's a hot topic.

A (22:20)

I don't care. Personally, I have no feelings about faces on covers. Unless there are movie covers I don't love. Obviously a movie tie in. That's like actors. Yeah. Like the COVID of youf by Carolyn Kepnes with the actors on it. Because that. That show is so. At least to me, like I can just visualize those characters now. I can't read that and see Joe Goldberg anyway. Else. Other than the character that plays him or the actor that plays him. Yeah, but faces, like, if they're, if they're, you know, illustrated or whatever, they don't bother me. I know some people don't like them, though.

B (22:58)

Yeah. I never thought that they did bother me terribly. But then both of the books that I'm bringing today have faces on the COVID And I. I didn't put that together until I was prepping for the episode and then I was like, oh, I'll have to ask Tina how she feels about faces on covers.

A (23:15)

You know, I did have some contenders and I know there's people on them. I actually will go ahead and grab the contenders that I had that I was thinking about reading for this one moment.

B (23:24)

Okay. Yes.

A (23:26)

So we have some examples here. Now, the first few aren't that ugly. So the book I'm holding up right now is called the Other Daughter by Shalini Boland. This one I just didn't like because it's very, very basic. It's a little girl facing away from the camera and like a grown up holding her hand.

B (23:42)

Popular thing, like the people facing away.

A (23:45)

That's like the number one popular thing.

B (23:48)

I feel, especially with historical fiction.

A (23:51)

Yes, yes. So this one is called the Space Between Worlds by Micaiah Johnson. This one does have faces on it.

B (23:59)

But yeah, I don't.

A (24:00)

Far away. I don't love it. I don't know why.

B (24:03)

It's not the worst cover I've ever seen.

A (24:05)

I just don't love it. It's the colors, it's the people. I. It looks like there's a lot going on behind it. It's just not my fave. And then I'll save my last one for when we're talking truly terrifying covers. Did you have any that you considered that you ended up not grabbing, like, to read for this episode?

B (24:24)

Oh, to read for the episode. No.

A (24:27)

Okay, so you, you picked them and you were in on them.

B (24:29)

I picked them and I. I got it. Well, one I. I particularly saved for this episode because we've been planning this episode for a minute. So one of them I read a while back and was like, I'm bringing that for this because of how much I hate it.

A (24:40)

Yeah, yeah.

B (24:41)

And then the other one I just picked, and then I stuck with it.

A (24:46)

So some I think are universally grotesque on purpose, and then some I think are like to give you a vibe if it's horror, if you, you know, whatever. And then obviously, I think some are personal, like just personal things that you don't like. I'm trying to think if there's anything else on a cover that I don't enjoy. One of my covers is a very 90s cover, very dated, and I think it's ugly. But I also think it's. It told me what I was getting with the book and it's giving what it's supposed to give. So for that I was like, okay, it makes, you know, it works. For this episode.

B (25:20)

Another book that I just hate the COVID of which is really sad because I love the book, but whenever I think of ugly covers, this book always comes to mind for me. And that's the Troupe by Nick Cutter. Both versions. The old version I don't like, but especially the new version. I hate the red text on the, like, bluish blue. Like, I hate the orange on the blue. Oh, and I just really don't like the font. I understand why they did the font. I just.

A (25:53)

You don't like it. You're not a fan of it. Okay. No, that's fair. I. That doesn't bother me. That doesn't really do one thing.

B (26:01)

So much of this is subjective.

A (26:02)

It is, right? It's very subjective. I also think the troop, the one you don't like, matches some of his other covers, which you probably don't like for all of them.

B (26:11)

I don't. The deep.

A (26:13)

Yeah, the deep. That's exactly what I was looking at. Okay, so this is all right. I'm going to hold up a cover, and I think it's a jump scare. I hate this cover so much. And I know the author knows I hate it because I made a reel about it when I opened it for bookmail and they commented on it, not in a bad way, but in a your reaction's really funny way. It's the cut by C.J. dotson that's hard to look at. I hate it so much.

B (26:37)

You're, like, looking away from the camera.

A (26:40)

I want to see it.

B (26:42)

What's the author's name? Cj.

A (26:45)

It's the cut by CJ Dotson. Okay, what I'm holding up for the folks that are listening, it's a. I don't even want to describe it. You're looking at a drain, which, first of all, a drain.

B (26:55)

Calm down, girl.

A (26:55)

Disgusting. A drain is disgusting in and of itself. You've got the holes, and then you have this freaking worm.

B (27:05)

Parasite.

A (27:07)

It's a parasite. It's not even a worm. Put it away. It's cursed.

B (27:11)

Horrific.

A (27:12)

It's horrific. It's the worst cover that I could think of. I couldn't even bring myself to read the book for this episode because I was like, I. I just don't. I don't want it.

B (27:20)

But it does set out for what it's trying to do. I mean, it's supposed to be gross.

A (27:24)

Exactly. So kudos to the author and designers for that one.

B (27:28)

The one that I. I. Okay. This one is always my first thought whenever I think of ugly covers. I'm going to show this one's also a jump scare, but not I don't know if this one was intended to be this ugly, but it's the first edition UK cover of Twilight.

A (27:49)

Oh.

B (27:50)

And it is. It is something.

A (27:54)

Excuse me.

B (27:55)

I'm gonna have you. You should just, like, Google it really quick so that you get a real good peek. It looks like a.

A (28:05)

Why would they.

B (28:05)

Wattpad version of Coraline.

A (28:09)

Why would they do that?

B (28:12)

I'm not sure.

A (28:12)

Like, you know what? That.

B (28:13)

It's really bad.

A (28:15)

It is so creepy. Okay, so this does fit. It doesn't fit. You know what? It looks like? You remember when Edward and Bella. Spoiler. Have a child?

B (28:27)

Yeah.

A (28:27)

And they.

B (28:28)

How could I forget?

A (28:29)

How could you forget? And they name her Renesmee, which is. Yeah, Renesmee. The worst name ever created. They. Sorry for any Renesmee's out there. The. The movie. The movie. They create this uncanny Valley version of that child. And it's just. It's. It makes people grow. It's like a very well known thing. AI that looks like she's an AI.

B (28:57)

Bot, which, I mean, she probably was created with.

A (29:02)

Could they just, like, get, like, maybe a child actor? I don't know. Who knows, like, come up with this, like, Android robot type thing that gets.

B (29:10)

Imprinted on by an adult.

A (29:11)

Oh. Not great. You know what I mean? Not a great age in our life. Holy shit. I am. Oh, my God. So this is a CGI baby. The Breaking dawn, baby. Please Google this. This is the grossest thing I've ever seen.

B (29:29)

Breaking dawn, baby. I love the Deep Diver going on.

A (29:32)

Why cgi? Reness May was so unsettling. Oh, yeah.

B (29:39)

Oh.

A (29:39)

So the problem with it because. Okay, okay. So it's called Uncanny Valley, which is an effect that occurs when in film, when CGI or animated characters appear just human enough to unsettle audiences with their subtle differences. So. Oh, I hate it so much. So our brains are like, okay, this is a human. But, like, why is it doing that? It looks weird and it, like, makes you really creeped out. Oh, my gosh.

B (30:09)

I feel like some animated movies that are really realistic kind of do that. Like, I honestly felt that way about the Polar Express.

A (30:18)

Yeah.

B (30:19)

You know, I mean, they're not quite human enough, but I find that type of animation, especially as it's gotten better and stronger to be creepy because it's just real enough.

A (30:30)

Oh, but, oh, no, I don't like this.

B (30:33)

Right?

A (30:33)

I Googled the Polar Express. No, I don't like this at all.

B (30:37)

I don't like it either.

A (30:38)

How interesting.

B (30:40)

Well, before we wrap up this very fun book talk in which we have deep, deep dove. Deep, Deep dived.

A (30:48)

Did a deep dive.

B (30:49)

Did a deep dive on some interesting things I wanted to recommend if you're interested in consuming more content about covers that are atrocities. There is a booktoc creator she goes by. Bridgetish is her handle slash name. I'll link it in the show notes. But she is a, I think, designer by trade and she has a background in design. But she has her followers submit books that she wants them to like, look up in real time. And she records these videos of her looking up these book covers in real time and rating how ugly or not they are. And if she agrees or disagrees with these submissions. And it's really funny and some of them are absolutely horrendous. But it's fun too because a lot of these are not books that we even know because they'll be like the German version of XYZ or the first edition Swedish version of, you know, this other book. But some of them are just so bad. And watching her reactions is funny and a delight. So if you want to have more of this content, I recommend checking her.

A (32:00)

Out even more bookish content. And with that I will transition into my first read. If that's okay with you.

B (32:10)

Please do.

A (32:11)

Okay, now I have sort of a fun story about this one. So the book that I'm bringing first for ugly covers is Richard Lehman's in the Dark. Have you ever seen this?

B (32:24)

Or heard, look at that cover.

A (32:27)

Old school cover. So this is a book that I'm bringing that looks like it was from the 90s, because it is indeed from the 90s. It is one of those mass market paperbacks and it's just a black cover and the writing is normal. It's fine. It looks like a, you know, old Stephen King book. What I don't understand is this image in the middle. So it's a silhouette and it's sort of a blue background, but it's very blurry. I don't know why. Excuse me.

B (32:56)

It's following it around.

A (32:58)

It's very blurry. So I don't know why it doesn't. I don't know. It doesn't inspire. It kind of looks like I'm looking at her from like a telescope. But that doesn't fit with the book. I guess settles you. But anyway, this cover is no good. What's so freaking funny though is because I was reading this and okay, I have two funny beginnings for this one. This book. I was on my Kindle looking for books to read for this episode. I'm like what books are ugly? And I saw this. I clicked on it, and I thought, where did I get this from? Apparently, I purchased it from Amazon. But why? I never buy books from Amazon, like, on Kindle or rarely, do I? And I'm like, did this just show up on my phone? Why would. I can't remember purchasing it. I don't know why I did it. And it just creeps me out because you'll hear when I talk about the story, why it's creepy that it just appeared on my Kindle seconds later. So weird. I was googling this author because I was like, who is this man? Why was I searching him? And why did I buy one of his books? And how have I not heard of him? So I googled him and his Wikipedia page. You're gonna laugh. It says the poor editing and unattractive cover art also stalled his career in America.

B (34:19)

Wow, that is literally got him bad rep. Yep.

A (34:23)

So he was more popular over in the UK than he was in the US he is now no longer with us. But the book itself is about Jane Carey, a young librarian. Jane is working at the library. She's closing up shop. And then one day, Jane finds an envelope containing a $50 bill and a note instructing her to look homeward. Angel. And she's like, what the heck does that mean? And so she recognizes it as a quote from a Thomas Wolf novel. She's like, should I go look? All right, let me just go look and see. So she goes upstairs and grabs this novel. And. And while she's doing that, she runs. So the library is closed, right? While she's heading up to the second floor, she runs into a man. And she's hurt. Just. She gets scared, obviously. She's like, oh, my God, why are you still here? And his name is Brace. What? But anyway.

B (35:15)

Yeah, that's a weird name.

A (35:16)

It's a weird name. So Brace is like, oh, you know, she kind of. Somehow they get to talking, and she's afraid to go upstairs. She's already unsettled. She's got this weird note. She's like, come with me while I close. And, you know, he agrees. So she goes and finds the book. And in the book is another letter. This time, it's $100 bill in another clue. And both of the letters are signed Master of Games, or mog. So the whole thing in this story is trying to figure out who is the master of games and why is he leaving Jane money. So the game goes on and on, and each time she figures things out, she gets another letter and they double the amount of money that's in it. And it gets wild and the puzzles get more complex, but also pretty silly and definitely, definitely more dangerous. And eventually you see Jane sort of transform into a woman unhinged. She's fighting for her life, and she is unsure if she can ever get out of this game. Okay, this book is. This man is obsessed with breasts. He included a boob in every major scene. And I'm talking in the beginning. She has this, like, knife she's carrying with her around the library for some reason. Oh, and the knife opens by accident and stabs her in the boob. Of course it does. She's climbing this thing, and of course she falls off and brace, like, accidentally, like, grazes her butt.

B (36:52)

This happened a lot in the 90s, I think this.

A (36:55)

That kind of writing was the classic 90s writing where he couldn't help himself. He was such a perv. He. There's, like, scenes that make absolutely no sense that, oh, all of a sudden, there's her boob. And I'm talking every major scene. You talk about breasts. So know that, I guess. And so you might be saying, Tina, why did you keep reading? Great question. I got into the game. I got into the game because I was like, what lengths is this woman going to go to to figure out the puzzle? And also, I'm like, I want to know who's mog I want to know. Also, this lady. She's not well written, right? She is just making the most reckless decisions and also saying things that I don't think any woman would say. So it is dated when you're reading it. So know that. But also the puzzle man, I was so curious. Unfortunately, by the end, you do find out who MOG is. It was not. It was stupid.

B (37:58)

Okay?

A (37:58)

So sorry to say. It was so not anticlimactic because you get this big scene at the end. It didn't make sense. That's my problem. It didn't make sense. And I was left wanting more answers as to what was going on. I don't recommend this. Did I have fun reading it? I did. And I read the whole dang thing. In fact, did I read it all in print or ebook? Because I don't think they had audio for this. I can't remember. Doesn't matter. I did indeed finish this book, and God help me, I was curious and I kept turning the pages. So if you want something that's campy, that gets gross and graphic, has poor writing, but, like, also doesn't take itself too seriously, that Was sort. That was pretty entertaining. That's where I'm landing with this. That is in the Dark by Richard Lehman.

B (38:57)

This seems like a book that if you were on like a beach trip and there was a little free library on the beach and like, you could grab this and enjoy it on the beach for what it is. But we'll put it back in the little free library when you head back for vacation.

A (39:13)

You'll notice. Exactly. This is a library copy. Because I'm like, I'm not spending my hard earned bucks to copy of this.

B (39:20)

She doesn't go back. It's going to go back to.

A (39:22)

Go back to the justice library. Thank you so much for letting me borrow this.

B (39:25)

Support your local library.

A (39:26)

That's right.

B (39:27)

All right. Okay. My first book with a cover that I personally hate is the one that I said that I read a while back. And I'm finally bringing it, and that's Finding Grace by Loretta Rothschild. Again, it's got these faces on the COVID I don't really know what they're trying to do. It's trying to be like artistic, I think, with drawn faces. But I can't tell if it's straw or hair that makes up these faces. It's not doing it for me, though.

A (40:03)

What is it like? Cross hatching? I think that's what that's called, cross hatching. So it's like something like.

B (40:11)

Yeah, yeah.

A (40:12)

It's very sinister. No, it's not. Yeah, it's like very obviously cross hatched.

B (40:19)

It's unsettling for me. There's just something unsettling about it.

A (40:23)

It kind of looked like. You know why? I think because the cross hatching is skin toned. It kind of looks like they're rotting to me. You know what I mean? Like, they're kind of like. Like they're. They've got like a film on them or something. Like, because there's two faces on it. Oh, God. Renest me just came back on my screen. Go away.

B (40:45)

Okay. This story follows Honor, who seems to have it all. She loves her daughter, Chloe, and she loves her husband, Tom, even though he is working what feels like 100 hours a week. But deep down, she longs for another baby. And that desire starts to overshadow everything else. And then there is a shocking event that happens that changes their lives completely. And then we fast forward a few years, and Tom then makes a choice that sends a ripple effect through both of their families in ways that he could have never imagined. And as this fallout is unfolding, two women's lives become permanently Tangled together and when old love collides with new, the big questions are who will be left standing? And what happens when the secrets that you have tried to bury all come to the surface? So I love family stories. I love family dramas. I picked this up despite the COVID because I love those things. And I especially love books that explore how one single moment or decision can completely change the course of a life. And this book did definitely explore that. I also love when those choices bring two characters together in a way they might have never connected otherwise. Overall, I would say that I did like this book. There were definitely some moments where the drama and the character decisions made me roll my eyes a little bit. And there were some twists and turns that went in directions that I personally didn't love. I didn't hate them, but I thought the book was going to be going in a different direction, and it went in another one and I didn't love it, but it didn't make me overall hate the book. I still think that this story has really wide appeal if you're into family dramas, if you're into kind of like a butterfly effect type of book. And I will say, if it had one thing going for it, it's that the first chapter ends on a film cliffhanger. And so after the first chapter, you definitely want to keep going. And I feel like this book does kind of have that, like, potato chip effect where you're. Even if you're not 100% loving it, you just have to keep reading it because it's dramatic, it's, you know, it's juicy. There's a lot going on. So I would say that while I didn't love, love, love the book, I think that there are other family dramas that do what this book was trying to do better. Would I recommend it? I would say maybe. I think that this book has a really wide appeal and I've seen a lot of people reading it and loving it. So you can do with that what you will. That is Finding Grace by Loretta Rothschild.

A (43:42)

That one is one that I got spoiled to by an article. It just told you what the big was. Yes.

B (43:49)

At the very end.

A (43:52)

No, literally, the article was like a collection of 25 novels, like, recommending big fall reads or whatever, big summer reads. And it literally says blank, blank happens in the first chapter and you've got to keep reading. I'm like, well, now I don't want to. So, yes, because I think you're right. The reveal is really good in that. And it is, from what I understand.

B (44:12)

A page turner it is a page turner. Yes. It's such a bummer that you got spoiled for it.

A (44:17)

I was not happy about that. I will tell you about my next novel, though, and I am happy about this one. I have a theme today, and forgive me, I didn't mean to bring both of these at the same time, but my next novel is Redemption by Jack Jordan. And this one I'm holding, it is a yellow cover. An ugly yellow, frankly, not a nice yellow. It's the worst yellow. And it's got a scorpion on it. And, oh, I hate it so much. The scorpion has a bloody tail. And look at this. This makes me crazy. Look what they've done to me. So on the side of the book here, you have one single leg of the scorpion and it's dripping blood. And I hate that for me because now I get to look at this on my shelf and it's got that one bug leg pointing at me. However, I did really enjoy this novel. So, unfortunately, I'm so sorry. This is another novel where there is a. A dead child. He does not die on the page, but dear Lord. Okay. It's a grief story and a revenge story. So this is. Did I say the title? It's Redemption by Jack Jordan. Okay, okay, okay. So. All right. This is a thriller and it is about three characters. Essentially, you have Aaron, who has just been released from jail after causing the death of a boy in a hit and run. Now, a free man, all he wants to do is leave behind his troubled past. Evelyn is consumed by grief and rage and she has been counting down the days until this moment. Because after 11 long years, she's finally able to exact revenge that her late son deserves. And then Tobias is the father. He knew what his wife was planning and he is with her, but he doesn't agree with her. The only reason he is with her is because he is determined to do everything he can to save her from himself, even if it means protecting the man who killed their son. So that is what this novel is about. I would like for you all to please clap for me because I read this entire thing in print because I couldn't get. Thank you. Thank you. I could not get the ebook or the audio. So this whole thing was read, read in print. And it did take you.

B (46:32)

Oh, look at your notes.

A (46:32)

I know. I love it. It took me a full month to get through. Not because it's not a good book, but because two reasons it's in print, but also it's a hard subject matter, especially in the beginning, because in the Beginning, my God, is it gut wrenching. You get to see Evelyn before and then you see her after. And she is a shell of a human being. And I love that this book is sectioned off into the five stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. And each of those sections has that theme as, you know, a part of it. You are getting multiple point of view from all three characters. And this is a book where there are no right answers. Because on the one hand, you can see why Evelyn's so consumed. You can see why her husband wants to protect her. And God help me, the author did a fantastic job of getting us to care about Aaron. And this is a book where my feelings about the characters changed dramatically throughout the. It was a bit repetitive for me. Okay, so it's a road trip story, right? So these. This couple is British. They moved to California. That's where the son passed away. And then they are going to somewhere. We'll say, I think it's Nevada where Aaron lives. And they're making this road trip from where they live in California to Nevada to murder him, basically, and get revenge. So you are getting this road trip story and the characters do get separated at one point. And really you have the woman that's trying to kill Eren, you have Eren running, and then you have this husband who's trying to protect Eren and therefore protect his wife from becoming a murderess. After a while, I was like, okay, I see where this is going. Like, let's wrap it up here. But I still really, really loved it. I felt major feelings for two of the characters, Aaron and Evelyn, specifically Tobias. I was like, he was a bit of a shell because he just kept saying, I'm doing it for my wife. I want to save my wife. It's like, okay, like, give me a little more. By the end, we did get there. This one, though, I really want to be clear that there is a lot of gun violence in it. So if that's not something you're down with, I mean, who is, Right? But if that's not something you want to read about, just know it's pretty prevalent in this one. And I like that it explores what a child death can do to a person and what that can do to a marriage. This is a very well fleshed out story. You get a beginning, middle and end. You really do feel like you see the full arc of all of the characters. There's also not that many characters. You know, it's really focusing on those three. And then some of the. The short, the smaller players. I will also say there is a dog that plays pretty specifically in this one and the dog does not die, which I was very happy about. Good to know people do, but not the dog. So just know that the themes of this one are forgiveness, revenge, hatred, second chances, and overcoming versus succumbing to circumstances. I really liked it. I am going to read Jack Jordan again. He is not as popular in the US for some reason, but I know he has a lot more books that you can get. I got this one from Blackwell's but I do recommend this. It's heavy but really well executed. This one is Redemption by Jack Jordan.

B (49:51)

Well, I'm glad that both of us are going to end on a book that we would recommend because my next one, although it has a cover that I hate, it was really good and I really liked it. And that's the Strange Case of Jane O by Karen Thompson Walker. The COVID is kind of this like not, not chrome but like this rainbow swirl. And then it has like this kind of face on the front but the face is like blurry in the swirls. It just doesn't. It doesn't do it for me. It doesn't pull me in. But the reason why I wanted to read this one is because I love Karen Thompson Walker. I have read her books the Age of Miracles and the Dreamers and I really enjoyed both. Age of Miracles especially. That's one of my favorite books. And this one is about Jane, who is a young mother who during her baby's first year starts having these unsettling episodes. She's losing her memory, she's having amnesia. She's also having hallucinations and she is getting premonitions. She's kind of in this constant state of dread. And then she goes missing and is later found with no memory of what happened. So she doesn't go missing permanently throughout the story, but there is a period of time where she goes missing and then she's found again and she doesn't remember what has happened to her. And the big question driving this story is whether her symptoms stem from the overwhelm of new motherhood or from a long buried trauma. Perhaps I almost don't want to stay say that much but but this book does have some other turns within the puzzle. Jane keeps seeing visions of this man who died 20 years ago and she feels like this is a warning for her. But she ends up reconnecting with Dr. Bird who is a psychiatrist that she briefly saw as a teenager and he ends up agreeing to help her unravel everything that is happening. So this book is told in dual perspective. We're getting Jane's journal entries that she wrote to her son to one day read and then we're also getting to hear from Dr. Bird's perspective and we're reading his case notes. Both of these voices are very equally restrained. You can tell that they or the author, but in this case it's written as they are kind of trying to keep some information from us purposefully. But the entries are also very deeply intimate. And I thought that it balanced those two things really well. It makes the whole story feel like you are really slowly unlocking this puzzle alongside of our characters which are trying to figure out what is going on with Jane. This book definitely toes the line with psychiatric treatment and the appropriateness of the treatment that she is receiving. But I do think that it's self aware and it makes for a really interesting part of the story. This is definitely less about fast paced action and more about just sinking into this puzzle in a bit of a. No, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna say that. Hold on. Sinking into this puzzle, trying to figure out what is going on. I listened to the audiobook and the narration was fantastic. We have two narrators who really brought these two characters to life and I think that they captured the tension perfectly. This was just such an immersive, I think, really smart story that blended psychology and memory and also new motherhood and postpartum into a truly unique reading experience. I think that if you love books with a little bit of mystery that make you think, and if you like books that leave you with big questions in the best way but end in a satisfying way, I think I thought that this book was satisfying, but we'll just leave you thinking about it. Well, after you've finished then. I would really recommend this one. I have a feeling this is going to stick with me. It's a bit of a slow burn, but I thought it was so rewarding. And that is the Strange Case of Jane O by Karen Thompson Walker.

A (53:57)

I like books that give you big thoughts, have you asking big questions, but also leave you with a resolution, you know?

B (54:05)

Yes. Because I'm like, I don't want to be left leaning. It had some questions still at the end, but we do get kind of, I feel like the most important answer that we want to get for the book. We get that. So rest assured, you may have some questions, but there will also be enough answers.

A (54:22)

Awesome. Okay, well, it's time for shelf editions now. I did say earlier that I hate wings on Covers, but my shelf edition has wings. But I don't mind this cover. It is called the Bird Watcher by Jacqueline Machard and Jacqueline Mitchard. I'm not quite sure how to say it. Look at this cool version I got. It's truly an arc. It's like a bound arc that I have never received before. So thanks to Mira for sending this over. It's really.

B (54:51)

Wait, what do you mean by bound?

A (54:52)

It's literally like. I don't know how else to say it.

B (54:56)

There's like a clear.

A (54:57)

Yeah.

B (54:58)

Oh, is it like really early?

A (55:00)

It comes out in December, so, yeah, it's like, it's really cool. Anyway, so I don't know how else to say it. Yeah, but look at the back. It's like. I don't know. I'm scared to ruin it, really. But this one sounds so good and in fact, kind of similar to your book True Crime Story. I'm like, is this nonfiction or fiction? Because it's called the Bird Watcher. And then you open it and the first chapter says indigo Bunting. And it starts to tell you about the indigo bunting bird. And I'm like, is this a birding book? Because I know this author and she typically American robin. She typically writes thrillers or, you know, mystery thriller, suspense. And so I was confused, but it is a suspense story. So what this book is about, it's a page turning drama that explores the beauty of female friendship. You have a woman named Felicity who is convicted of a double murder. She was a brilliant grad student and she works as a high priced escort. And she declares, I may not be innocent, but I am innocent of this. And then her friend, her childhood friend Reenie, never doubted her. A jury might have given Felicity a life sentence, but Reenie knows that her childhood best friend is not capable of murder. And so Rini, a journalist, decides to use her deep connections to Felicity's past to unravel the truth. And the more she uncovers, the more Rene is convinced that the story the prosecution told is wrong, despite the puzzling fact that Felicity said not one single word in her own defense. But there's one thing Rainey knows for certain. Felicity would never lie. And I'm very intrigued by this. Comes out December 9th. And I would love to know more about this, but this book is the Bird Watcher by Jacqueline Richard.

B (56:48)

Yeah, that sounds interesting, right?

A (56:50)

I want to know what's going on. Why did she not say anything?

B (56:55)

My Shelf edition is One of Us by Dan Schoen. I think I'm saying that last name correctly. But I am really excited about this. This came out in September and this is a darkly playful story about two orphaned twins. Well, I guess two is insinuated by them being twins. That's neither here nor there. They are on the run from their murderous uncle who find refuge in a strange traveling carnival. Full stop. I'm already sold. We've got orphans. We've got a traveling carnival.

A (57:26)

Yeah.

B (57:26)

This is set in 1915. We have 13 year old bolt and Eleanor who can read each other's minds. And after their mother dies, they are left with their Uncle Charlie. He is a con man who claims to be family and one of his rages ends in murder. And the twins have to escape. And they stumble into the Emporium of wonders, which is a carnival full of unforgettable misfits. For the first time, the twins feel like they belong. But as Bolt gets drawn deeper in, Eleanor begins to pull away. And when Uncle Charlie picks up the trail, the danger that they face is terrifying. More terrifying than they could ever imagine. This is said to be creepy, thrilling, and a celebration of the strange, the spectacular, and the families that we create for ourselves. I love a found family story, so I am excited to hopefully read this one soon. And that is One of Us by Dan. Tina looked it up for us while I was talking about it. So it's Dan Shawn.

A (58:28)

Dan Shawn. Yes. I love the COVID of that one. Speaking of covers like me too, for some reason I. It's impactful.

B (58:34)

I like kind of carnival text and then the very simple but eerie background with the little peak of the carnival tent. It is appealing. I agree. I like that one.

A (58:44)

Yeah. Well, everyone, that is it for today. We thank you for spending a part of your day with us. We encourage to. All the books mentioned can be found in the show notes and if you enjoyed today's episode, you can help us by following wherever you listen and by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us get our show out to new listeners and grows our audience. And don't forget, if you would like access to exclusive bonus content and community, you can join us for $5 a month on patreon.com booktalk Etc.

B (59:12)

If you'd like to connect with us, you can email us@booktalketcmail.com you can also connect with us both at Booktok etc on Instagram and Tina, TBR etc and HannahandPickedBooks. Talk to you next week.

A (59:25)

And in the meantime, remember, everything's better with books.

B (59:34)

Yay.

A (59:34)

What I was gonna say Hannah's not wearing a bra, but I didn't want to.

B (59:39)

I know. I texted you.

A (59:40)

I saw it.

B (59:42)

Okay, well, you know, hopefully we can't tell. You know, I have small ones, so that's. That's nice. That is.

A (59:50)

Yeah, I'm sure we can't tell.

B (59:52)

Okay, perfect. Well, you know, you let me know if you all can tell. And you just black me out for the entire video because I'm not like.

A (60:00)

A black box right here.

B (60:02)

Just. Yeah, just have a black box across my. My bosom. Anyway.

A (60:10)

Oh, my God.

B (60:10)

We're gonna stop the recording.

A (60:12)

Not your bosom.

B (60:13)

My bosom. What else am I supposed to say? I hate the word boob.

A (60:16)

Boob. Breasts. Now we sound like Richard Layman.

B (60:21)

You know.