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- [00:01]
A
I'm so sorry. My camera's making me absolutely insane. There we go. Just stay there. Just lock. Okay.
- [00:08]
B
Is it following you around?
- [00:09]
A
Yes, but it's like, I don't know what it's tracking. It might be tracking Mike Dicka back here. I'm not sure. It's like tracking something behind me. It's making me crazy. Stay. Oh, for crying out loud. They're gonna show you my. Okay, I think. Well, whatever. You guys know what I look like. It's fine. O. Welcome to Book Talk Etc, a podcast bound to grow your tbr. I'm Tina from TBR Etc.
- [00:43]
C
And I'm Hannah from Hand Picked Books.
- [00:45]
A
This is a conversational podcast about books and more from Team Midwest Mood readers who are easily distracted by new releases. And this week we are delighted to be joined by Gail from Wonderland Books.
- [00:57]
C
If you enjoy listening, we'd love for you to follow us on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. If you have a quick minute, please consider listening leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or sharing us on social media. It truly helps us connect with other book lovers.
- [01:11]
A
Hey, everyone. Today we are delighted to be joined by Gail Weiswasser, a bookseller and co owner of Wonderland Books and co host of the Readerly Report podcast. Gail, welcome to Book Talk. Etc.
- [01:23]
B
I'm so happy to be here. I've listened to this show for a long time, so it's really a thrill to be here.
- [01:30]
A
Yes. Thanks for reaching out to us too. I'm so happy to have you on.
- [01:33]
C
Yes. We were so excited when you reached out and it's fun to have someone who's been a listener of the show for a long time that is now joining us in a new context and recording with us. So we're super excited to have you here.
- [01:48]
B
Great. I love it.
- [01:49]
A
And the Readerly report's been. You've been on for a long time, right?
- [01:52]
B
Oh, my God. A long time. And we're like a little bit. And we're. Ever since I opened the bookstore, it's been really hard for Nicole and me. And Nicole also launched her own business and so we've been much more sporadic. But no, we started in 2009, I think.
- [02:06]
A
Oh, my God.
- [02:07]
B
Wow. Is that right? It was a long. Maybe it wasn't that. No, maybe it wasn't quite that long, but it's been a very long time. Like, long before people were podcasting.
- [02:15]
A
Yeah.
- [02:15]
C
I was going to ask, was that kind of before the podcast boom or was it during, like, kind of when people were starting to listen to them more.
- [02:24]
B
Yeah, I mean, it was definitely like very early and it was before the book podcast boom. I feel like book process, maybe that was like 2016, when that sounds right, really started. Yeah. So we were. Hey, it was in 2009, but it was quite a while before that, so.
- [02:39]
A
And I. The OGs I asked because I remember when Renee reached out about a book podcast idea, I was like, I have never listened to a book podcast. Really? I hadn't listened to hardly any. You were one of the few that I was like, this is one that I've listened to before. So it's just like a fun full circle moment to have you on. But let's dive in, tell the listeners a little bit about yourself.
- [02:59]
B
Sure. So I live in Washington, D.C. and I started out my career as a lawyer and did that for about eight years and decided, you know, pretty early on it wasn't for me. And I went into corporate communications, crisis communications work. And I did that for about 20 years. And I have my kids, I've got three kids. I've got twins who are 21 and a son who is 13. My 21 year olds are girls. And I worked in communications in a whole range of capacities, most recently working at like a tech startup for about 10 years, which was amazing. But I've always had this passion for reading and books. And I launched a blog in 2006, which is a really long time ago in the blogging world. It's called Every Day I Write the Book, which is people who know it's an Elvis Costello song from the 80s, which is another one of my passions is 80s music. So I've been writing this blog for a really long time and been, you know, kind of dancing around the book world in many ways. Like, I would go to Book Expo every year and I would be on, you know, do this podcast and listen to podcasts and go to events. But I decided it was like, time to really make it my life. I'd always kind of had this fantasy of opening a bookstore. And there's a suburb right outside DC called Bethesda, Maryland, and there has not been a bookstore in Bethesda for a really long time. There was a Barnes and Noble that closed like six years ago. And I've just always thought there was this, like, great potential and possibility to have a bookstore. And I started to get kind of serious about it about maybe two or three years ago and started kind of doing my research and talking to other booksellers and, you know, deciding if this was feasible. And I had a partner at one point who unfortunately had to back out. But then I approached a friend of mine from book club, and I said, hey, do you want to do this book bookstore with me? And she was a journalist at the Post, Washington Post, for many years, and she, like me, has this passion for books and reading and this fantasy, too. And so we decided to go for it. And we spent most of 2024 looking for a place and sort of just learning everything we could. And we opened Wonderland Books in December of 2024. So we've been open about 13 and a half months at this point.
- [05:26]
C
Ooh, that's exciting.
- [05:28]
B
Thank you.
- [05:29]
C
Well, I want to. I want to ask you about just Wonderland books in general, but also before we dive into that, I would love to know what type of books you like to read. Like, if someone says, oh, what do you like to read, Gail? Do you. Yeah, just tell us a little bit more about your reading life and what you enjoy reading.
- [05:50]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'm a pretty narrow reader, which is not a great quality in a bookseller. I love literary fiction. I love contemporary fiction. I love memoirs, little bit of historical fiction. I don't read a lot of the other genres. I'm not a romance reader. I don't read fantasy. I don't read sci fi. I don't read mysteries. But literary fiction and contemporary fiction does cover a lot. So that's. And I. And I. And some like narrative nonfiction. Not a ton of nonfiction, but I definitely read some. Amy, of course, is very similar to me. So unfortunately, we are. Our Venn diagrams of books is very like. The overlap is very large, but that's usually where I. Where I fall. And that's, you know, you'll see that in my recommendations today. They're going to lean heavily in that area. I have recruited a lot of help from other booksellers in our store, and we have a great group of especially younger readers who read a lot of the other genres and were very helpful to me today in some of the answers that I You. That I'll share later. But that's. That would be my. My description of my reading taste.
- [07:03]
C
No, I love that. And I am excited to hear all of the book recommendations. Now tell us a little bit about Wonderland Books.
- [07:13]
B
Sure. So we are a general bookstore. We have something for everybody. We've got. Maybe 25% of our square footage is devoted to children's, and then we've got all those genres I mentioned. So we have. You know, I'm just picturing the store in my mind, like ya, sci, Fi. Romance. We keep romance and fantasy kind of close together because there's a lot of blend. Mysteries and thrillers, and then we have a huge fiction section, and then we've got all the nonfiction. You know, we're in D.C. so we've got politics and current events and history, a fair amount of sports. Amy and I are both big sports people. I love baseball, so I kind of lean heavily on the baseball books, pop culture. I like my, you know, music and movies and TV books, small business section. And then we have health, cooking, travel, you know, just basically all the same verticals you would have in a bookstore. And then we have a fair amount of sidelines, so that's where we sell our candles and stationery and vases and stickers and neatos, little squishy things that people buy and stuffed animals and, you know, that type of stuff. I mean, it's a. I would say it's a highly curated store. We have about maybe 1800 square feet, which isn't tiny, but it's not huge either. So a book has to really, like, earn its place on our shelves. And we spend a lot of time thinking, you know, really hard about the books that are there, and they are very much a reflection of our personal taste and the taste of our community. So. Or, you know, often cycling books out if they aren't selling and bringing in new books. So it's like, it's got something for everyone. But it is also very much a curated select, a curated collection.
- [09:00]
A
And I think that's what's so great about visiting independent bookstores, is that you really get a flavor for the owner's taste and sort of you can see what type of things they gravitate toward. So when you have a title that's maybe not selling, do you then have to. Can you sell it back? Or what happens to that title?
- [09:16]
B
Yeah, we can return it. So that's. People don't always realize that, but we can. With 99% of the books in our store, we can return them. So we give them a lot of time to see if they. If they take. And we kind of periodically will go through. In fact, in October, sort of like as we were gearing up for the holidays, we went through literally every title in the store. We've been open almost a year, and some publishers say you can only have a year. So we wanted to make sure we didn't, oh, right, go outside of that window, went through every book on the shelf and, like, really asked ourselves, okay, when's the last time this book sold? How many do we have on hand? Is it selling well in other bookstores that use our same inventory management system? So we have this great inventory management program called Book Manager. And Book Manager will let us look at all other bookstores that use Book Manager and see what their sales are. So we're like, are we super unusual that this book isn't selling? Maybe we're not marketing it right. You know, if nobody's selling it, we'll send it back. You know, sometimes it's a book that we just want to have on the shelf. Regardless of whether it's selling. We think it's important. Maybe it's a voice we think needs to be represented. So, I mean, it's kind of hard because sometimes a book won't sell for, like, 10 months, and then it will sell. And I'm like, okay. Like, it found its reader.
- [10:35]
A
Yeah.
- [10:36]
B
And it's really hard to send books back and worry that we're removing the possibility of that kind of, like, serendipitous connection between reader and book. You know, the discovery. They come in the store and they find this amazing book. But at the same time, like, the hard, you know, like, capitalist in me is like, let it go. Like, it's not selling. It's using shelf space to drag on revenue. And so that's like, a constant balance between those two. Those two impulses, like wanting to maximize sales and then also wanting to be a place where people can come in and find something that maybe they've never heard of and that is matches exactly the mood that they're in.
- [11:11]
A
I am eating this up. I could literally listen to you talk about the back end of things all day. I'm, like, waiting, and then what. And then what happens there? So thank you for giving us the
- [11:20]
B
people I love talking about it.
- [11:22]
A
Important to think about. Right. And hopefully today, with some of your recommendations and some of the things, we will have folks that maybe will find your store and, you know, purchase some of these titles. And we can shop online. Right? They can go the best places directly from your website.
- [11:36]
B
Yeah, so that's a great question. So when we opened our store, we. We knew we didn't want to do e commerce. Like, I don't want to be in the business of, like, packing up books and sending them out, mailing them out. That's. That's a whole other, like, inventory process and space and all that stuff. So we don't do online sales where you can buy. So we send people who want to buy online to our bookshop.org storefront. Bookshop.org is like the greatest thing that ever happened to bookstores, independent bookstores, because you just sign up as an affiliate, you create a storefront on Bookshop. When people come in and they just pick Wonderland Books. Every time they buy a book, we get 30% of that sale. And then in addition to that, bookshop.org shares at the end of the year or twice a year, I think a pool of money that wasn't allocated to a particular bookstore, they share that among all their affiliates. So it's really a fantastic company. And so that's one great way to do it. Then of course you can shop in person with us and you can go on our website and you can buy prepay for a book or reserve a book, but you have to pick that up in the store. Very occasionally we will ship out a book. Like sometimes we have an event and an author signs a copy of a book and then we get somebody who really wants that book and they say, can you mail it to me? So for a fee we'll mail that out. But that's by far the exception.
- [12:55]
A
I am so glad that you mentioned this. I'm glad I asked and sorry, I suppose I should have known that. I guess I just assumed. But Great plug for bookshop.org of course. Course we will link to that down below in our show notes to those folks that are listening today. But what a great company. You're right. We've had Andy on the show before, the CEO of bookshop.org and I'm just such a fan. But I'm glad to hear from your side of things, like what impact they've had.
- [13:17]
B
Oh, it's. I mean we get. It's like passive income. We get money from bookshop.org all the time sending us checks because people have gone like, I've got friends around the country who are like, I want to support your store, but I don't live in oc so they shop. And there's a lot of anti Amazon sentiment right now, especially since the election last year. And Bookshop is just a fantastic alternative, so we pushed it. And same with Libro fm. Libro FM is just my next question. Yeah, except for audiobooks. So if you're not somebody who reads paper books but you buy audiobooks, you know, rather than going to Audible, we always recommend going to Libro. It's the same thing. They support independent bookstores around the whole country. So another great.
- [13:55]
C
Gosh, that's awesome.
- [13:56]
A
Fantastic plug both. Yes, well, we will transition into how we always start the show with our loving latelys and of course, course we're going to get back into the bookselling process and recommendations here in a bit. But let's keep things moving with our loving lately. Mine is a. It's a recipe website that is very specific to me. I mean, it's almost as though she created this website for people that live in the place in Chicago that I am from. The website itself is called the Tipsy Housewife. And she, I don't know where she lives now, it's not in Chicago. But she literally shares recipes from. She shares all kinds of recipes. But what caught my eye is she shares recipes from restaurants in the southwest side of Chicago, which is literally where I grew up. And it's just these very highly, like, if you're from this area, you're like, oh, obviously that is the macaroni salad from Juul, which is our like local grocery store. But she shares these recipes where you can cook it at home. My very favorite recipe from her website is this creamy potato soup. It looks so terrible in the bowl, such an ugly soup, but I cannot tell you how good it tastes. And she has recipes for easy recipes like soup. She's got, like I said, the, the deli salad from our local deli or our local grocery store, Jewel. She's got Chicago style stuffing which incorporates its stuffing that you would have for like Thanksgiving, but incorporates Italian beef, which is very much a Chicago specific thing. So I was just having the best time. And she also seems like somebody that is a good time, like I would want to be friends with. We like to bring a wide range of loving late. And this is just one that has caught my eye. I've been saving her recipes like crazy. So if you're a listener and wondering, like, what kind of food do you eat in Chicago, like, what does Chicago homestyle cooking look like? Go to this woman's website because I'm telling you, it feels like home when I visit it. So my loving lately is the Tipsy Housewife and she is a recipe creator.
- [15:58]
C
Now is this the potato soup that you brought? Because didn't you bring a potato soup recently to like a soup cook off with your neighborhood or your friends?
- [16:06]
A
Oh my God, you're right. We did. We had book club. We had a soup off. And so everybody around book club brought a different soup. I did not make this specific soup. That's my. For next year when we do it again, I'm going to make that potato soup. The one I brought was a Avgo lemono, which is a Greek chicken and rice soup. That was my Award winning recipe, and it was freaking delicious. Very similar. We're very. Yeah, it's freezing. And same in DC too, right? You need a comfort meal now to get back, but, yeah, that's what I've been up to.
- [16:37]
C
Oh, I love that. Gail, do you have a loving lately to bring to the show today?
- [16:42]
B
I do, and I love. One thing I love so much about your show is that this section, especially, like, you do cover so many different things with some makeup or recipes or whatever. So I felt free to bring up something really random. You know how, like, if you spend time on TikTok, which I do, way too much of, you just get in these, like. Like, rabbit holes, and then once you like a video, they keep serving it up for you. So I am obsessed with these Goodwill Haul videos. So these are people who go to Goodwill, and sometimes they go to the Goodwill bins, which is like this whole other Goodwill. It's like, not the usual Goodwill. It's like a Goodwill outlet where things come out in bins, and they are obsessed with what they get at the bins that day. They pay by the pound. And so I am obsessed with watching what they got. And, like, I think a lot of them are resellers. So then I'd, like, always want to know what, like, they said, I bought this for $2, and I'm gonna, you know, probably get $90 for this. But, like, I get mesmerized watching them go through their haul and talk about how great the day was or the find. And it's. And I like to thrift myself. I love to go to Goodwill, but I've never been to the bins. I'm, like, kind of, like, intrigued and excited to go to the bin someday, but I spend way too much of my time watching these videos.
- [17:55]
A
I love a good Goodwill Thrift Haul video. There's this one creator, she does a lot of stuff, but I just literally will watch her. She goes every Thursday. Her name is Lily, and she's like, I'm unemployed. It's a Thursday. Let's go to Goodwill. And she just finds the craziest stuff. And I'm like, what a fun. I feel like thrifting has always been a thing, but I feel like it's really maybe more so than ever, probably due to some of these TikTok videos having this renaissance. I love that. I love that. I'm, like, picturing you, like, after a long day of bookselling. You're like, all right, what have they gotten in the bins?
- [18:26]
B
I know. It's really. I Was gonna say I should turn TikTok off on my phone cause it like it cuts into my reading. It's really bad, but it's very fun.
- [18:35]
C
There are also worse corners of the Internet to be scrolling under. So this is a nice comfort way to use social media. It gets my stamp of approval, that's for sure.
- [18:47]
B
Thank you.
- [18:50]
C
I was debating on what to bring for today and I'm going to bring an app actually because it coincides with Tina' Loving Lately and it was recommended by a patron during one of our mood reader happy hours and I wish I could remember who. If it was you, send us a message because this app is saving my life. It's called the resume app. And I went ahead and decided to do a trial and I've already decided I'm going to keep it. I think it's like $35 for a year if you decide to fully use it and utilize all of its services. But what it does is it allows you to take any recipe, whether that's from TikTok or Instagram or a website or anywhere, and you can fill it in, you can plug in the link and it will take it and store it for you and it will tell you all the ingredients, how to make it, and then that way you have all of your recipes in one place instead of where did I save that recipe? Did I save it on TikTok or did I save it on, you know, Pinch of Yum's website or where does this live? Well, now you can take all of those recipes that are your tried and true, but you don't know where you saved it last. They're all in one spot. And you can also categorize them in the app. So you can do like a meal prep folder, you can have dinners folder, you can have like I have a folder for each of my kids. These are meals that these kids that my kids will eat. Yeah, it's really nice. And I haven't utilized this feature yet, but I'm pretty sure you can take it and then use it to grocery shop as well. And it will help you put your grocery list together depending on what recipes you want to make for the week. So again, I haven't used that feature yet, but I'm excited to try it. But this app has been so fun when I've been like taking my kiddos to appointments and stuff, that's when I'll use that time to collect those recipes and then store them on the app. So it's been so fun to put my lists and folders Together. And I'm really excited to keep using this throughout the year. So that is the resume app.
- [21:09]
A
I remember somebody brought this to the reader happy hour because I thought it sounds like the name from the kid in Twilight. Renesmee.
- [21:16]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [21:17]
A
Or whatever.
- [21:17]
C
Renesmee. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [21:19]
A
Like, that's what made it stand out in my mind. I'm currently in between recipe apps. I've got any list, which I love. And then I have my Skylight calendar, so I can't possibly try a third. But whatever it is, I love a good recipe holder because otherwise it's just screenshots in my phone and random websites and that's not good for anybody. So good pick.
- [21:40]
B
That's awesome. I'm going to try that. I have one too, but it doesn't work well for the, like, Instagram screenshot process.
- [21:49]
C
Yes.
- [21:49]
A
And that's where I get many of my recommendations. All right, so we, before we get into talking about the book selling day today, I do want to go ahead and share my latest read. And I think, Gail, I actually think you said you don't read a ton of mystery. I do think that this one actually might work for you. Stay with me. It is Missing Sam by Thridhi Amrigar. And this one I was so excited about. Yes, yes, yes. And so I think this is her. This is actually my first time reading her. I do think she typically writes literary books and this is maybe sort of a blend of mystery folded into more literary fiction. This one is a really sort of haunting story about an Indian American woman who becomes the prime suspect when her wife goes missing. You've got this couple, Alia and Samantha. And as couples do, they have a fight one night and Samantha's a runner and she. They typically run together the next morning. She's like, I'm so kind of mad. I'm going to run by myself. And so she ends up doing that and doesn't come home for the from the run. And so Aaliyah is kind of like, oh, she must still be mad at me. Where is she? She's trying to track her down. And eventually she does report her as missing because she doesn't come home. It's tricky, though, because there she's gay, she's Muslim, she's a daughter of immigrants, and she feels immediately she is getting suspected as having had something to do with it. And people are using all of those identities to further their case and say, oh, and this and this. She feels very isolated and everyone's kind of questioning her. People she thought were she was close to are now being cold to her. And basically she's trying to frantically scramble to figure out where the hell is my wife. And the book is about her dealing with the fact that her wife is not with her. She's also trying to prove her innocence and most importantly, bring Sam home. And the book takes some interesting routes. And so I'll sort of leave it at that, if that sounds interesting to you. I really enjoyed this. I really did. I loved the exploration of marriage. And one thing that I think the author did that was so brilliant, they're talking to her and the cops do this. People she's worked with oftentimes are like, oh, your partner. Oh, your girlfriend. And like, she has to very repeatedly correct people and say, yes, she's my wife. Like, she's my wife. And like, people just automatically assume maybe that they're not married. I just thought this one had a great blend of this. It had a great blend of emotion. It had the mystery element that kept me hooked. And it really did a great job unpacking this marriage and. And really taking a look at one singular evening and how. How you act in that moment could, depending on who's looking at it, be picked apart by public opinion and really serve as a way to make people blame you for what happened, even though they were innocuous and events. I thought this one was really good. My only sort of pause in recommending it. I really enjoyed it. But I also like books that can get a little bit boring and mundane. And so the middle of this one does drag a bit as you're figuring out what's going on. That didn't take away from it for me, but I think if you are somebody that is a proper mystery and thriller reader, you might be taken out of the story a little bit. But I thought it was great. I love the exploration of character. I liked the setting. It's set in Cleveland in Shaker Heights, which is very specific. It's actually the second book I've read this year set in that same area. They're like a mile apart. And that played a role in the story. One thing, though, that I will say is this book could have easily gone into emotional manipulation and sort of cheesiness if it was in another author's hand, but it did not go there. I thought this one was so good. I'm excited to read more by this author and I do highly recommend it. This one is Missing Sam by Thridhi Amrigar.
- [25:48]
C
Yeah, that is an author that I have previously really enjoyed as well. And this does sound a little bit different from her other books. When you mentioned Shaker Heights, though, and I don't know how I remembered this, but isn't Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ng set in Shaker Heights? I don't know. I read that when it came out in 2020, and I don't. When you said that, I was like, I'm pretty sure that book is set there, too.
- [26:11]
A
I don't know why I remember that.
- [26:13]
B
Maybe it's just like a quintessential Midwestern town.
- [26:15]
A
Maybe. I think it's very. Yeah, I think there's a lot of. Yeah, it's an interesting place. Based on the three books that I've read that were set there. It seems very interesting. But anyway, I'm really excited. I would say that that one is a good one to recommend. Also good for book club. If anybody is looking for books to recommend to their book club, I think that one would really do it.
- [26:33]
C
Yeah, sounds very discussable.
- [26:35]
A
Gail, what have you got for us?
- [26:37]
B
So one of the books I read recently that I really liked, it's not that new. Is the Rachel Incident by Caroline o'. Donoghue. You're both nodding. Have you both read it?
- [26:47]
A
I've not read it.
- [26:50]
B
I thought you guys were gonna be like, oh, yeah.
- [26:52]
A
No, no, no, I've never read it.
- [26:53]
B
Oh, this is such a great book. It takes place in Ireland, and it's about two sort of of early 20s, you know, just starting out their lives there. It's a woman and her friend, and they live together. It's platonic. They're not. He's gay. And she gets involved, or she tries to get involved with one of her professors, and the professor ends up sort of involved in both of their lives in unexpected ways. And she ends up kind of getting in, getting to know the professor's wife as well. And it's sort of this, like. Like, thorny, complicated time in her life where some things went down that, you know, became very, like, affected her for sort of the rest of her life. And when she's writing this, she's looking back on this time, that kind of confusing early adulthood where you're not really sure who you are, where you're going, and kind of buffeted by these, you know, winds pushing you in all these different directions. It's just. It's not like a super complicated or flashy story. But I just loved the way she told it. She kind of teases it out so perfectly so that, like, little developments happen and you're just, like, almost like, gasping because you're like, oh, my God, That's. That's shocking. I didn't know this was gonna happen. And it's not where I expected this story to go. One of my booksellers describe it as like, it's like Sally Rooney, but with a happier ending. Like, Sally Rooney I love, but like, especially normal people, but like, you can feel really kind of bogged down sometimes in the emot this one. That emotion is there, but it just doesn't feel quite so weighty. And I don't know. I've never talked to anyone who did not like this book. And it's in paperback, so it's an easy pickup. And I just. We. We recommend this one all the time.
- [28:41]
C
That is one that is on my shelves, on my. On my ephemeral tbr.
- [28:46]
A
That's what I was looking for behind me. I'm like, I think I own it. Somewhere back here. I'll have to explain it more properly.
- [28:52]
C
It's funny because I struggle with Sally Rooney, but whenever someone comps a book to Sally Rooney, I tend like the comps more than I actually like her books. There is something about her writing, and I know her writing is very distinct. So, you know, it's either for you or not. But as you were talking about this book, I was like, this sounds totally in my wheelhouse. And then you comped it to Sally Rooney is. And I was like, yep, that sounds
- [29:17]
B
like it would work for me.
- [29:18]
C
It sealed the deal. Yes. Okay. Well, my latest read is a book that I have been meaning to read for so long, and I'm glad that I finally did. It's the Secret Lives of Church Ladies by Deesha Philyaw. Have either of you read it?
- [29:33]
B
I have.
- [29:34]
C
Okay. But I want to. I'm excited to talk about it. I don't read a lot of short story collections, but I definitely want to start reading more. This is a collection that dives into the private and complicated lives of black women and girls who grew up in and around the church. And we are taken across nine stories and four generations. And these characters wrestle with desire and faith, shame, love and the pressure to be good, even when their hearts may want something else. You are going to meet women in this collection that are navigating secret relationships. They are questioning their bodies. They're longing for connection and sometimes breaking the rules that they were taught to live by. Often breaking the rules that they were taught to live by. These stories explore the tension between spirituality and humanity and what it means to really claim your freedom and pleasure and identity in Spaces that don't usually allow for it. It is really intimate, honest, and full of moments where women finally decide to choose themselves, even when it's messy. And this collection was messy. Like, if I were to put one word on it, it would be messy, irreverent, but also so beautiful and beautifully written. I am always, again, a little bit surprised by how much I love short story collections when I finally give them a shot and I really need to more of them. This one reminded me why each story offered such an intimate look at these women's lives, especially their complicated relationships with the church and their bodies and just what they want in and out of life. It was such a unique lens and I felt like Philyaw wrote with so much emotional precision. Every story felt so full and satisfying in such a short, short space. And even though I was very satisfied with how each story ended, I felt like with each and every one of them, I would also read a full length novel on these characters and their stories and journeys. I just feel like this book was definitely something special and I am so glad that I finally picked it up after having it on my TBR for so long. It lived up to all of the good things that I have ever heard about it and it was definitely worth the wait. And that is the Secret Lives of Church Ladies by Deesha Phillips.
- [31:57]
A
Yeah, you have this.
- [31:58]
B
I want to say I've. Maybe she has a book coming out this year. Okay. I feel like that was in one of my rep meetings that, like, I remember seeing that and being so excited.
- [32:09]
C
Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. This is my. Is this her only other book that she has?
- [32:15]
B
I'm not sure this.
- [32:16]
A
Yes. So this one is going to be the True Confessions of First Lady Freeman. It is her debut novel. Novel, which is very exciting. And it looks like this one comes out September 29th, so we have a little bit of time. And Hannah, you have this knack. It's so funny if there's a backlist book on my TBR that I'm like, I'm gonna read it this year. You have read them. Like you like somehow intuit it and you bring it and you end up reading it as well. Like, this has happened multiple times, which I'm really digging. So when I get that a couple years or a couple months from now, I will be sure to let you know what I thought.
- [32:51]
C
Yes, please do.
- [32:53]
A
All right, so we know a little bit about Wonderland books. We know a little bit about what the. What types of books you like to read. Tell us a little Bit more about the day to day. What does that look like? Sure.
- [33:03]
B
So I mean the one thing I do love about it is that every day is a little bit different, you know, but the sort of the rhythm of a bookstore is the same every day. So we open and at some point during the morning, late morning, we get our delivery of all of our books, books for that day. So we can get anywhere from like 20 to sometimes 50 boxes of books in a particular day. And these are mostly big boxes of books. So that's like hundreds and hundreds of books that come in every day. So they need to be received and processed and labeled and then shelved. So that kind of cycle. Books come in, books get processed, books go out on the shelf and then books go out the door. That is a never ending, I call it bookstore. It's just like any, it's like a, a never satisfied mistress. Like it just always wants more. And then of course there's customers. And you know, some days are busier than others. And I've learned it's really weird to have a profession or a business that's so weather dependent. But you know, if it's like a really, really cold and awful day, definitely impacts our, our, our customer flow. But you know, some days the beginning of the week can be a little slow and then it sort of starts to increase throughout the day and that then like there's even a rhythm during the day. The early morning is for like women who have just come from yoga or older people. And then there's kind of a lunch crowd which gets a little more professional because there are a lot of people who work in the neighborhood and they're on their lunch break and they're coming in for a book or they're coming from a local high school. So sometimes we'll get a bunch of teenagers in. Then there's usually like a mid afternoon dip. And then as we get into towards end of the workday and dinner time, things pick back up again. So we've got customers all day long that we're selling. And you know, either they come in and they know exactly what they want and they come and leave or they come in to pick up a book we've got on hold for them. We've got lots and lots of customer holds. Or sometimes it's people who need help, they need recommendations, they're going to a birthday party and they need a kid's book or they have just finished a book and they want to know what to read next. So you know that just it kind of happens. All day long. It's really fun just seeing what people are buying, what people are interested in. I spend more time than I would like probably in the back office in the store because there's a never ending influx of email that comes in about authors who want to do events at the store or upcoming events that we're having. We just launched book clubs this year, so there's just kind of like upkeep that goes on with the book clubs. There's like the really unsexy stuff like paying publisher invoices and running payroll and things like that. Three times a year, I don't know if you may not be aware of this. Three times a year we meet with our publisher reps. So we meet with reps from pretty much the big like seven publishers and they will present to us their front list. So we are just now meeting with reps for summer of 26, and then in a couple months we'll meet with them for fall. And so what we're doing then is going through a massive catalog in Edelweiss and we're choosing what books we think we want to bring in. And then we meet with them and they go over what we've picked and make recommendations and, you know, help us sort of narrow down. So that happens three times a year and that's very cyclical.
- [36:21]
A
Can I come to your next meeting? Sure.
- [36:24]
C
I know, I'm like, that sounds really fun.
- [36:26]
B
It's really fun.
- [36:27]
A
I want to know.
- [36:28]
B
It is fun. Sometimes they're in person. A lot of times they're on. On zoom. Because it just depends whether the publisher has like a rep that comes to town or not. But that part's really fun. I'm trying to think what else. I mean, so my days are just varied, you know, sometimes like two days ago we had a meeting with a local theater company and talking about ways we can work together, like maybe doing some when they have a new show opening, maybe having their actors come in and do a reading or have their director coming up with a like a related book reading list to go along with the show. So, you know, it's just, it's fun and interesting and it's like, it's really never boring at the bookstore ever.
- [37:12]
A
There's something to be said for that.
- [37:14]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:15]
C
So you mentioned that you're doing a potential partnership with this theater program. And then you also mentioned doing author events. Tell us a little bit more about the events and things like that that you do at your store outside of maybe. Well, I want to hear about the author Events too. But I just want to hear more about what kinds of events you do at Wonderland Books.
- [37:39]
B
Sure. So we have a pretty robust events calendar. When we started out, events seemed really overwhelming to us. So we opened in 24 and we said, okay, we're not going to even think about until 2025, which of course was like a month later. It wasn't really that much time. And when you open a bookstore, the first thing that happens is you get. Get a lot of incoming email from like local authors and people who want to do an event at your store and stock their book. And so a lot of times the event process is gatekeeping because you're looking at these books that are coming in from local authors who you want to support. But you can't do an event for everyone. In fact, you can't do an event for almost any of them. So you have to be super choosy about, is this a. Does this book have commercial appeal? Is this book going to be something that people are going to come in for? Like, can they attract an audience? So there's kind of that whole side of it where you're sort of like sifting and gatekeeping and oftentimes just saying no over and over again, which feels kind of crappy, but that's what you got to do. And then there are all the events that you want to get and the events that come in that are from established authors and coming in from. From established publishers. So we've been very lucky that we've gotten a lot of incoming interest from very, you know, high profile or established or commercial writers. And so we've had no problem really filling our schedule with those types of books that come in. And then in addition to that, there's books that we seek out. You know, sometimes there's an author we really want and we will then pursue that authority. So I would say the vast majority of them are things coming, are coming incoming. And then there's also like very select ones where we're like really, really trying to, you know, make it happen on our end. We do events probably two to three nights a week at the store, sometimes more if you throw the book clubs in there. For the most part, we do hold them in the store. We are not a particularly large store, but what we do is all of our interior shelves are on wheels. So we push them to the side, side and create a big space in the center and set up chairs. That way we have about 50 folding chairs. And then we have a number of other seating opportunities, you know, ways that we have like some stools and some other stuff. And then of course we have standing room. So we've, we can accommodate. Not comfortably, but we can accommodate about 120 people in the store. And we've done that on a couple of occasions. And it's crowded, but it happened, it works. And then sometimes it's an author that we know is going to attract a bigger crowd than that. And we have now some off site partners that we use when we need to do an off site event. So we did. Catherine Newman came, for example. We had about 170 people. So that was. We. We have a new event venue that's just about a block away. So she came and did a reading. Then we've had a poet named Sarah K. I don't know if you've ever heard of her, but she came. That was about 125 people. I'm super excited. You guys are younger than me, but I don't. Do you guys know who Andrew McCarthy is? Is. He's an actor. He was in the Brat Pack. He was.
- [40:46]
A
Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm really bad with actors in general.
- [40:49]
C
But yes, I was gonna say I'm also not super great with pop culture and, and that kind of stuff in general.
- [40:54]
B
Well, he was in like St. Elmo's Fire and Pretty in Paris when I was growing up. It was a big deal. And he's written a book about being in the book Brat Pack. And anyway, he's got a new book coming out about male friendship, which I'm very excited about. And so I was like, when I saw he had a book coming out, I'm like, we gotta get Andrew McCarthy. So I'm so excited. We are. He's coming and I'm interviewing him, like pinching myself about this.
- [41:14]
A
I'm really excited about that.
- [41:15]
C
But it's really exciting.
- [41:17]
B
Yeah. So like we do, you know, we have the highest hope, high profile ones the we've had. Our congressman has come twice now, Jamie Raskin, who represents our district in Maryland. And he's come twice to the store, most recently in January. And he attracts a big crowd. So it's really a variety. Last night we had a nonfiction author who was talking about a book he wrote about a wrong, Wrongful conviction and kind of how that came to happen. We've had lots of novelists that have come in, Sarah Pekkanen. I'm trying to think, must have been so many. Bruce Hulsinger, Annie Hartnett. It's just been like a nice, a nice flow of people that you Know people, it's nice being in D.C. because people often want an excuse to come to D.C. and they, they've got friends here, so they're like, yeah, you know, I'll add a DC stop.
- [42:09]
C
Well, and you can get a lot of even New York traffic in dc, Right? Isn't it not too far of a commute?
- [42:16]
B
Not too far at all. Yep.
- [42:17]
C
Yeah.
- [42:17]
B
So sometimes authors will come down on the train, do our event, and then go back the next day.
- [42:21]
C
That's awesome.
- [42:22]
A
Oh, my gosh, what a push me moment. You're like, oh, casually having, you know, having all these authors. But also event planning is whole skill in and of itself. Pretty, very stressful.
- [42:32]
B
Yeah. We have a great events manager and she does a lot of the legwork with the scheduling and, you know, she handles a huge amount of the correspondence and also like updating the websites and the Instagram and in store signage. That stuff is very time consuming and she does a great job with that.
- [42:48]
A
So your website's great too, by the way. I was.
- [42:51]
B
Oh, thank you.
- [42:51]
A
Playing around on there. I was like, easy to use, very visually pleasing. You obviously have the lane in which you like to read and where you can like, probably easily recommend books. Do you have any tools or how do you make book book recommendations for customers who need something specific that's outside of what you typically read?
- [43:12]
B
Yeah. So, you know, if somebody comes in and asks for like a mystery or a romance or something, you know, hopefully I've got a bookseller in the store at the time who can cover that, you know, so, you know, usually one of us will be like, hey, you know, Haley, like, someone's in here and needs a romantasy book. Like you're the person to do it. So we, you know, we kind of like pull people in sometimes. It's like a super specific request and, you know, we use the Internet. I. We go to Google Goodreads. You just, you know, sometimes if you just do a Google search, sometimes we go into our inventory system and we'll look at comps. Like, someone will say, oh, I really liked this book. So we'll go and see, okay, what, what do they recommend for people who like this particular book? So there's, you know, sometimes there's some back and forth to the computer a little bit. We've also got like shelf talkers around the store, which are the little things that go on the shelf when an employee has written a review of something or recommendation. So we rely a lot on those and we like to hear what are our. What are our Colleagues recommending, what do they really like? And so you just have to pay a lot of attention. You know, I spend time on bookstagram. I spend time on booktok. I read book reviews. Sadly, the Washington Post just did away with the entire book world section, which is awful. But I do spend a lot of time just reading about books. I follow podcasts. I listen to you guys. I listen to Sarah's bookshelves. Get a lot of recs from Sarah's bookshelves.
- [44:36]
A
Yeah.
- [44:37]
B
And it's just sort of like a swirl in. In your brain, you know, And I'm sure there are.
- [44:44]
A
We can relate.
- [44:44]
C
Yeah.
- [44:45]
B
You know what it is? I mean, your inbox, I'm sure, is like mine. You probably have an influx every day of emails that come in from publishers that come in from sites tb like Book Riot or whatever. Like, there's just constant. There's so much, like, book content that you can access every day. I'm sure there's missed opportunities or there's times when we don't happen to ask a customer, do you need help? And so maybe they don't find what they need and leave. And that, you know, kind of kills me.
- [45:13]
A
Yeah.
- [45:14]
C
Yeah, for sure.
- [45:15]
B
Yeah.
- [45:16]
C
Do you ever feel sometimes. I know, I know sometimes I will catch myself doing this, but, you know, we like, live and breathe books, and so we hear about books all the time. And sometimes when someone is asking me, I'm looking for a book that has this, this, and this. A lot of times a book will come up that I can't personally vouch for because I haven't read it, but I'll say I haven't read this yet. But I've heard, you know, from other readers that they're picking this up for the exact reasons that you mentioned. Do you ever feel comfortable doing that as a booksel or do you find yourself doing that ever?
- [45:52]
B
I do it all the time. I mean, sad to say, my book reading has gone way down since opening the store. Yeah, sure, irony. So if I could only recommend books I've read, it would be really tough. And they would, you know, the bulk of them would end at like 2024, which is. I mean, I've tried to keep up, but, like, you know, so. Yeah, no, I do that all the time. I say this is selling really well. I've heard people really like this. I've read reviews of this. I haven't. People ask me all the time, have you read it? Have you read it? And I'm like, look around. Like, no.
- [46:22]
C
But I know a lot about It.
- [46:24]
B
I know a lot about it. The bigger challenge is when people ask me about a book I didn't like.
- [46:30]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [46:30]
B
Which happens a lot. And so, you know, they'll come to the register with a book and say, did you like this? And that's hard because I don't want to equivocally recommend a book if I know I didn't like it because I'm worried they're not going to trust our recommendation. So what I often say is, many booksellers here have liked that book or other customers have liked that book. Or I'll say, that wasn't my favorite from that author. Like, I try to be diplomatic, but sometimes I'm really honest. I mean, and I, you know, I might lose that sale, but usually they'll just pick up something different. And at least I think I appreciate that. Like, I was honest because it's kind of like a book blog, as you guys know, or a book site. Like, it's not. I don't find it super helpful to just read positive reviews all the time.
- [47:13]
A
True.
- [47:14]
B
Like, it's. I want to hear a really honest, like, unvarnished opinion of a book. And I may still read it, or I may say, well, I think I would like it, despite what this person said. But I, I like to hear, like, a very honest opinion of it. So I, I try to walk that line. It can be hard, too. Sometimes the author has come in, you know, and then you're like, oh, my God, I'm face to face with this person. And, like, you know, you just want to be supportive and kind. And, you know, I can't imagine how hard it is to write a book and have people say something bad about it.
- [47:46]
A
Oh, gosh. I pretend they would never see my reviews if I didn't like a book. I'm like, they don't exist because I couldn't possibly look you in the face and be like, I hated that book.
- [47:55]
B
Right. I know. Like, it's hard if, like, we want to get an author. I'm like, oh, God. Like, this is why I don't. When I post my blog reviews, I often don't, like, tag the bookstore store account because I'm just like, it's kind of some weird little, like, invisible wall. It's a fine line. But no, but I do that all the time. I'll say, I don't know anything. I haven't read that book. But it was what just was well reviewed or it's really selling very well. There's a book out right now that's very popular that I haven't read. And
- [48:27]
C
can you say it?
- [48:29]
B
Okay, I haven't read it, and I don't think I would like it, but it's flying out the door. It's Theo of Golden.
- [48:38]
A
I knew you were going to say it. I just. I knew you're gonna say it because I have the same feeling. I have not read it, but I'm like, I don't think I'd like it,
- [48:45]
B
but I don't think I'm loving it, Right? But everyone's loving it. So people come in and they're so excited to get it. And that's great, you know, and it's almost better that I haven't read it because I can just say, enjoy. It's. This book is super popular right now, so. But I don't think I would like it.
- [49:01]
C
Yeah, Reader, you know, you got to know. You got to know yourself.
- [49:05]
A
You got to know. Right? Exactly. Oh, that's so funny. I was like, I just had a gut feeling because that really is having this moment. Our last bookseller talked about that book. We see it online all the time. But at any rate, I get very curious and sort of our role, right, Is to at least as how I see it, is to read, maybe vet a lot of books so that we can recommend them or not even to our listeners. So I'm still curious about that one. I might get to it at some point. Well, let's get into the fun part. Let's chat a little bit more about book recommendations, specific book recommendations. Tell us a little bit. What are some of your store's bestsellers?
- [49:40]
B
So, I mean, our store, in some ways it follows national trends. In some ways it doesn't. Our store, our clientele doesn't buy as much of the, like, big romance and, like, fantasy stuff. They buy some, but not, not, like, we'll see. I'll look at sometimes like, a. Like a indie bestseller list or another bestseller list, and I'm like, wow, like, those top five don't match ours at all. Right now. I kind of did a little. A little, like, report just to see, like, over the last, you know, five or six weeks, like, what's been selling the most. And it's what I expected. The Correspondent, like, by far our bestseller of last year, continues to be. There's a book called Family of Spies. I don't know if you guys have heard of that one. It's a book about a. I think. I think Sarah talked about it on her show. It's about a woman who finds out, like, well into her life that her family going back were actually. They. They were like, working with Nazis and they ended up, like, going to. Moving to Hawaii and helping the Japanese, spying for the Japanese in Pearl Harbor. It's. It's nonfiction. It's kind of this crazy story. It reads like fiction, but it's this crazy story about this woman who, like, learns all this stuff about her family and all these, like, crazy things that happened. She's actually local to D.C. and we did an event with her, which was great. But that book is doing very well nationally. It's by Christine Kuhn, and that book is selling well here at the store. Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny is a book that we have sold a ton of. Heart the Lover by Lily King. We have pushed that book hard as recommendations, but has just sold really well on its own. Own. So those are like the big fiction. A lot of the kind of big, like, literary fiction books. They do really well for us, too. Our number one seller, though, of the whole year was. Is very small little book called On Tyranny by Tim Snyder. And we keep it at the register. And it's a book that's basically like, here are the warning signs to see if you are in living in a, you know, a tyranny situation. And oddly, that's resonating really well with people right now.
- [51:51]
A
I was just going to say. I can't.
- [51:52]
C
I can imagine.
- [51:54]
B
What a coincidence. Wow. So that book has sold really well.
- [52:00]
C
Are there any books, whether ones that you just mentioned or otherwise, that have really surprised you with how well they've sold in your store?
- [52:08]
B
Such a great question. I didn't have a good answer for that by how well they've sold. You know, sometimes books just kind of take off and we like. Actually, here's a funny story. One day someone called the store and they said, do you have. It's a children's book. It's a picture book called if. I think it's if. If I Was a Dog or something. Like, yeah, it's by Sophie Blackall. It's a book about a little girl who wants to be a dog. And like, do you have if I Was a Dog? We're like, oh, yeah, we've got like two copies in store. And then like 10 minutes later, somebody called and asked for the same book. And then we started getting call after calling, call after call. And of course, we sold out of our. We don't keep that many copies of any one book usually. And then I start to reorder them and I notice it's on Backorder everywhere. And I'm like, what is up with this book? And it turned out that Ann Patchett was on Fresh Air and mentioned it, and there was a massive national run on this book. So sometimes, like, something like that will happen where just all of a sudden it explodes. And then not only have we sold out, then, like, we can't get it anywhere because everyone wants it. It happened with the entire Rachel Reed series once, like, the heated Rivalry series exploded. Like, I mean, we had maybe had like, one or two of each of those books, and then it was like, we couldn't get them for weeks, and then we got a massive stack of them, and now we're, like, working our way through those. But, like, the. The whole Rachel Reed phenomenon, you know, definitely hit, but there's. There hasn't been anything that I'm like, shocked to say, wow, that's selling really well. You know, some. Sometimes I'll be like, I can't believe we sold three of those this week. But it's not like a nothing that has kind of like exploded.
- [53:42]
A
What a fun mystery to uncover, though. Like, why is this. Why are people calling me about this specific title? But that would. That would make sense.
- [53:49]
B
Yeah. Well, sometimes I just ask. I'm like, you're the third person to ask for this in the last 10 minutes. Like, what's going on?
- [53:55]
C
What is going on? This is a little bit off the books question, but I'm. I'm guessing, like, I think I know the answer, but. But do you get a big uptick in backlist titles when they become movies or a TV series, just in general as a whole? Like, for example, I'm thinking Wuthering Heights are suddenly people wanting to read Wuthering Heights again.
- [54:17]
B
Yeah. Or Hamnet or something. Yeah. We get an uptick. I wouldn't say it's like a huge uptick, but we do get an uptick. And we try to. We try to anticipate, like, when the Bruce Springsteen biopic came out that's based on a particular book, Deliver Me From Nowhere, I think it's what it's called. Is that it? So we would try to, like, stock extras for that. And we did try to get more Wuthering Heights. Yeah. Because we. Those started going quickly. Then we're like, all right, we need more of those. So.
- [54:42]
C
Yeah. Because I've heard people are very surprised when they read Wuthering Heights, how. How different it is. They're like, wait, I thought this was a romance.
- [54:49]
B
Right. It's a little dark.
- [54:51]
C
Yeah.
- [54:52]
B
So. Yes. Not like A huge uptick. But sometimes, yeah, we'll get it. We'll see an uptick, sure.
- [54:57]
A
Are there any that you. Are there any that you stocked a lot of and you were surprised that they didn't sell?
- [55:03]
B
Yes, that happens all the time. We, we overestimate or the reps are overly ambitious when they are over positive. The one that comes to mind. And like, again, I don't want to like trash anyone, although this author I don't think will feel any impact by me in saying this, but the one thing we bought a lot of was the new Elizabeth Gilbert memoir. Memoir. The author of E Pray Love, who wrote a memoir this year about the death of her partner and kind of like the last year, I guess, of her partner's life and they'd had like a very tumultuous relationship and she writes all about that. There's a lot of like addiction and kind of like grittiness in there. And we, we way over ordered that one and it didn't sell that well. And there's like little pockets of books that come in that we, you know, well, now we're getting more confident in our like frontless buying and now we'll be like, you know, where in the past maybe we would have bought like two or three of a book if, if we have a sense and we think it's going to do really well, we might order like 10 or 15 so that we're not in a situation where we're constantly reordering, which can be frustrating because there's a lag and then people are coming in and asking for Heart, the Lover or the Correspondent. We don't have it. So we try now to get ahead of that. And so. But there are times when we do that and it turns out not, you know, it's not the case. There was like a book by Gish Jen. I've never read anything by Gish Jen, but she had a book that came out this year and, and like I, I don't know if even one of them sold. I have no idea why. Like that's an established, you know, literary fiction author. I think the reviews were good. I don't know what happened with that, but like no one bought it. I don't know. So it's just, it's just a mystery sometimes.
- [56:38]
C
Yeah, I'm trying to think of.
- [56:40]
A
It's bad, bad.
- [56:41]
C
That author. I don't know if I know that author.
- [56:43]
A
I don't know that author either.
- [56:44]
B
I'm trying to think of. And I've seen this for a while yeah. Bad, Bad Girl, I think it's called.
- [56:49]
A
Yes. Okay.
- [56:50]
B
Got a cool book. Yeah. Yeah. Just didn't sell. So that happens.
- [56:55]
A
Yeah, it happens.
- [56:58]
C
Do you have a personal book recommendation that you just want everyone to read or most people to read or that you feel like is just very universally recommendable?
- [57:10]
B
Yes. I have a book that is a backlist book that I have recommended so many times in the store that it is now one of our, like, top five sellers. And this book came out over 10 years ago. And anyone who knows my blog, my podcast, has heard me talk about this a million times, and no one will be surprised, but it's Kitchens of the Great Midwest by Jay Ryan Straddle. It's one of my favorite books. I even reread it this year just to make sure I'm like, do I still love it? And I do still love it. I have hand sold that so many times, and now my staff is hand selling it all the time. And I do think that's a book with universal appeal. So I love it. People come in, they want fiction. They want something that's substantive but not super, super sad. It appeals to men and women. It appeals to people who like foodie books. It appeals to people who like books about the Midwest. Like, it's got a lot of appeal. So I. I recommend that one all the time. And I have a shelf talker that says, this is my favorite book of the last decade, which is on its own. That little shelf talker sells that book. So that's. That's one. Recent books I recommend Buckeye all the time. I don't know if you guys have read Buckeye, but I haven't read it yet.
- [58:19]
A
It's on my list.
- [58:21]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, I can't recommend that book highly enough. I love that one. And then another recent book I read that I recommend, if I can tell if somebody can handle super sad, is called the Bright Years by Sarah Damoff. That book deals with a lot of loss and sadness and addiction and struggle, but it's just a beautiful book, so I have recommended that. But if some, you know, the first thing I ask somebody when they say, say, I need a book recommendation. So my first question is, what's the last book you loved? And that gives me at least a sense of, like, where is their reading? You know, what. What genre are we talking about? What type of author? And then I ask them, can you handle sad? Because there's a lot of people right now who just don't want sad. They just like, like, there's a Lot of really grim stuff in the news right now. And they do not want a sad book. They want an escape. They want something light. They want something engaging, or maybe they want historical fiction, because then you're going back into problems, problems that were, you know, hundreds of years old and not what's going on right now. So you have to kind of gauge the. The customer and see. So the Sarah Daymont book, I wouldn't not. I would obviously not recommend to someone who says they don't want a sad book, but if someone says, oh, I can handle sad, that's also a great length.
- [59:28]
C
It's not too long.
- [59:29]
B
Right.
- [59:30]
C
And it's well written, but accessible, which I feel like is, you know, great for when you're recommending to kind of a broader. Having something with broader appeal.
- [59:39]
B
Yeah.
- [59:40]
C
Kitchens of the Great Midwest is one of my favorites of all time, too.
- [59:44]
B
I'm so glad to hear that.
- [59:44]
C
I love that book, and I've really enjoyed all of his books that I've read, but that one, I do think is my favorite.
- [59:52]
B
Yeah, it's.
- [59:54]
C
Yeah, Queen of Minnesota is up there, too, for me.
- [59:58]
B
Yeah. So I don't know if you can see, but, like, in the back over there, I have this. Somebody posted on Instagram once they had created like, a. A character map from Kitchens in the Great Midwest. Because with that book, like, a lot of the characters that kind of intersect in weird ways, they all center around one person. And I saw that, and I was like, oh, my God, can I. Is there any way you could send me that? And she did, and I framed it because I just. I love it.
- [60:24]
A
Oh, I love that.
- [60:25]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [60:26]
A
Added to my tbr. I love it.
- [60:28]
B
Oh, yeah. You must read it, Tina. You have have to read it.
- [60:31]
A
Well, I know. I was like, I just recommended a Midwest food blog, so I feel like this is speaking to me. Do you have any other favorite books that you've read recently that you want to recommend?
- [60:42]
B
Yeah, so, I mean, I've mentioned a couple of them already. Buckeye's Way up there in the Rachel Incident. I read a book called the Safekeep. Did you guys read the Safe.
- [60:50]
A
Yes. I love that book. That's historical.
- [60:53]
B
Really good. It is historical. It is historical. And it takes place in. It's like post war, I guess it takes place in, like, the 60s in the Netherlands. And it has to do with a woman who lives in kind of this remote area in this house, this big house. And she's very uptight and wound up and very particular about this house and Everything in the house. And she's got these two brothers, and she ends up meeting through one of her brothers, his. Her brother's girlfriend, who, through a set of circumstances, ends up, like, moving into the house with her for an indefinite amount of time. And it's about the relationship that develops between these two women. And then I don't want to get into too much more because there is kind of a little bit of a surprise element to it, which I think would give it away. But it's one of those books that's kind of going in one direction and then it turns in another direction. Sort of Fates and Furies Ask. And it's just very. The. When you get to the end, it's a very, like, fulfilling read in a lot of ways.
- [61:59]
A
I agree.
- [61:59]
C
And I have really good things about that one.
- [62:02]
A
Yes. It's so good. I love the spiky main character, too. I don't think you're supposed to like her. I just liked her so much. She was just very much set in her ways and just was who she was. So that's a great recommendation.
- [62:12]
B
Just a warning. There's a lot of sex in that book.
- [62:15]
A
Yeah.
- [62:15]
B
Go into that knowing there's of lot. A lot of sex in that book.
- [62:17]
A
It sure does.
- [62:18]
B
A little spicy. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good. That's a good, good one from this year.
- [62:23]
C
Well, speaking of spicy, do you have any books that you personally think were a little bit overrated? We kind of touched on one. But you didn't.
- [62:32]
B
Haven't read it yet. You just think I have, like, way too many books on this list. I don't know what's up with me that I'm always like, the contrarian. I'm gonna listen. Books that I. The. Again, these books do not need my help in any way, so I don't feel bad. Okay.
- [62:48]
C
Okay.
- [62:48]
B
Books I did not really like, I didn't think were that great. Wedding people, Remarkably Bright creatures just did not do it for me. Yeah. And why did you love it?
- [63:00]
A
I liked both of those books. Yes.
- [63:03]
B
Yeah. Just didn't. Neither one of them did it for me. And then I hate to say this because I love the author, and I think I may even talk about the author, you know, in other contexts, but I did not like Margot's got Money Troubles. It didn't do it for me. Like, I'm used to her much grittier, darker books, and that one was too sunny. I. I don't do well with any of the following descriptors. Heartwarming, quirky characters, unexpected family there's just not my buzzwords. They're just not my genre. I. I'm like. I like. I'm really dark and depressing.
- [63:42]
C
So you mentioned the first two, the Wedding People and Remarkably Bright Creatures, although both of those deal with harder topics. They have maybe more of like, a saccharine lens, especially towards the end. And then you said, margo's got money troubles is too sunny. So. Yeah, there's definitely a trend there, for sure.
- [64:00]
B
Definitely a trend. But I am. I am so in the minority in those books, and I know that. And so, you know when people come in and buy them and they're like, oh, what do you think? I'd say, oh, yeah, great book. Because I'm. I really am in the minority in those books, but.
- [64:12]
A
So you like the Knockout Queen by Rufy Thorpe better than Mar. The Knockout Queen is so good.
- [64:19]
B
It's so good.
- [64:20]
C
Is it a little grittier?
- [64:21]
B
It is much grittier.
- [64:23]
C
Okay.
- [64:24]
B
Her first one, too, the Girls from Corona del Mar, also really gritty. Yeah, I. I love the gritty Rufy Thorpe, and I think she's turning more mainstream and more power to her, and that's great. But it just. Yeah. You know, it. Margot just wasn't for me.
- [64:40]
C
Well, I was going to say, do you think a lot of art. Do you think a lot of authors are choosing to maybe make their books a little sunnier, to be better, like, to be more marketable?
- [64:53]
B
Maybe. Yeah, maybe they've got an eye on the. On the film adaptation. I don't know. True.
- [64:58]
C
Oh, that's true.
- [64:59]
B
Yeah, maybe. I mean, I think there's still a lot of gritty, dark books coming out. I don't know. That's a great question. I would love to ask. Ask Rufy Thorpe that question. Like what? Tell us about your evolution from the first two to the third one. Because, you know, maybe it is a. Yeah, maybe they get sick of writing depressing stuff. Sure. You know, like, authors are dealing. Living in this world, too, and dealing with what's going on, and maybe they just don't want to, like, live, have that inhabit their mind all the time. I don't know.
- [65:28]
C
So true.
- [65:28]
B
I don't know. But like, many of our booksellers and our customers love those books, so I concede that I'm. That, you know, it's just me.
- [65:37]
C
Sure.
- [65:38]
A
That is fair. All right, we'll wrap up this part with. Do you have any anticipated reads that are coming out for the rest of 2026?
- [65:46]
B
There's so many.
- [65:48]
A
What if you said no, you're like, no, not a single one.
- [65:51]
B
Yeah, nothing at all. Looks pretty grim. No, there are so many. And, like, when I was, you know, sitting in these republic meetings, I'm like, oh, my God. Okay, so first of all, Kin by Tayari Jones. I have it sitting right here, and I haven't read it. It kills me. I loved American Marriage so much and so. And Silver Sparrow. So to have a new Tayari Jones, I'm so excited. Jessamyn Ward is another author I really like, and she has a book coming out called Unwitness and Respair later this year. I like Allegra Goodman a lot. We just did a book club with Isola and she. Her book just came out on Tuesday. Her new one called this is not a big about us, we have Emily Nevins. Emily Nemens wrote a book that I don't think anyone read, and it came out right before the pandemic. It was called Cactus League. It's a book about spring training told from the perspective of all these different people that are at, you know, this particular team spring training. And, like, no one read it. And I loved it. And now she's a new book that just came out called Clutch, which is getting a lot more attention. So I was really thrilled about. About that. Hannah, you mentioned short stories and how you don't usually read a lot of short stories, but I don't know if you're a Lauren Groff fan, but her collection of short stories called Brawler, that's coming out, I just read the first one, and it was so good. I just, like, I was.
- [67:08]
C
Do love Lauren Groff.
- [67:10]
B
Yeah. So I think you would probably like that book. I think so. I don't know. There's like, an embarrassment of riches this year. There's a lot of really good stuff coming up as well.
- [67:19]
A
You're getting me excited that Emily Neiman's book, though, the. Not Clutch, but the one prior Cactus League, sounds really good. I'm a baseball aficionado, so I feel like right now I need to read that. Okay, good.
- [67:34]
B
Yeah, yeah. And especially, like, oh, my God, read it right now because, like, spring training
- [67:37]
C
is just starting, and it's like, it's
- [67:40]
B
told from, like, there's, like, a star player. There's like, a coach or something. I mean, it's just all these different people. It's like a kaleidoscope around this, like, team, you know, them being at spring training. And it's. It's not sunny. Like, it's not like a. I was
- [67:56]
A
gonna say it's not heartwarming.
- [67:58]
B
No, it's not heartwarming, but I really like that one. So when I saw she heard new and she was just on NPR with like, her new book. So I think she's talked about, like, going a little more commercial, like mainstream. That's. I think she's hitting. Hitting that more.
- [68:13]
A
Oh, well, fantastic.
- [68:16]
C
I'm gonna wrap so many books added to the list. List always.
- [68:21]
A
I'm going to wrap things up with my shelf edition. And in honor of it being a bookstore browse day, I brought a book that I just got from my most recent bookstore browse in person. I'm holding a store you guys might not have heard of. It's called Frankenstein by Mary Shelley. But specifically it is the 1818 text. And why I grabbed this. First of all, Open Books was having their annual sale. It was like 50% off all of their used books. So I got it it for like $3 maybe. But also I'm holding the COVID It's gorgeous. It's just this really striking cover. It's a Penguin classic. And I was very curious. I wanted to know what the. What the difference was between Frankenstein, the 1818 text versus, you know, just sort of general Frankenstein that everybody knows. So the difference is this is presented in its original 1818 text, and it is. It has an introduction from National Book Cross Critics Circle Award winner Charlotte Gordon, and essentially it is have. This one is supposed to be more hard hitting and more politically charged. And I guess this has more of her wit and strong female voice was. Which was taken out of the one that has more popularity. So I was very interested with our patrons. This year we're reading three classics, which is kind of crazy to say because it's not typically what we do, but we're reading east of Eden, we're going to be reading the Count of Monte Cristo and then this one Frankenstein. So I thought I would grab this, and I'm very excited about it. So this is my shelf edition. It's Frankenstein the 1818 text.
- [69:53]
C
Ooh, love that we're bringing classics you
- [69:56]
A
can get it for. Looks like $1 on Kindle if you. If you want to read along.
- [70:01]
C
Look at that. All right. Gail, do you have a shelf edition for us? I know you've already brought so many
- [70:09]
B
others. Well, I was going to mention that I just got the new Ann Patchett book, Whistler. Oh, yes.
- [70:16]
A
There you go.
- [70:16]
B
I'm excited to read that one. So I didn't include that on my list of anticipated releases because I wanted to save it for this section, but that has shown up. And so I'm going to read that soon.
- [70:27]
A
You're going to prioritize it. I want you to do that. Think of us. I want you to, you know, find ways, find time in between all of the other things that you're doing to really get in on that one.
- [70:37]
C
Yeah, I'm really excited about that release too. Do you know off the top of your head when it comes out?
- [70:42]
B
Definitely later this spring, maybe June.
- [70:45]
C
I was gonna say may sounds right.
- [70:47]
A
Let's look. June 2, 2026.
- [70:50]
C
Yeah, June 2. Okay. From what I've read to wait till
- [70:54]
B
summer, the reviews I've read of it so far have been really good. So good.
- [70:59]
A
How exciting.
- [70:59]
C
Always exciting. When she comes out with a new one. My shelf edition is Beneath by Ariel Sullivan. This is from the same author of Conform, which I read last year, Romantasy. I really enjoyed that. And this is not. Oh, okay. I was just about to say it's not related to Conform, which is a lie. It is, but it's not a part. It's not a part of the series though. It is a prequel, which I, I think I'm really going to enjoy. Because when I was reading Conform, I really enjoyed it. But I was asking that question of, okay, how did the politics, the government system, all of this get set up in this way, you know, prior to the characters that we're following in the book Conform. So it sounds like my hope is, is that Beneath this prequel kind of answers those questions. So yeah, I'm really excited to read this prequel to Conform so that we can read it as we wait for the next books in that series to come out. So that is Beneath by Ariel Sullivan.
- [72:04]
A
Is that also by Jenna Bush Hager's imprint?
- [72:08]
C
Yes, it is.
- [72:09]
B
Okay. Yeah.
- [72:10]
A
Because they had sent me a copy of Conform and I guess it's Thousand Voices. Yes, thank you. Perfect.
- [72:15]
C
Yes.
- [72:16]
A
All right, folks, before we go, a quick reminder that we're also dropping a bonus episode with Gail on Patreon where she'll be giving us personalized book recommendations as requested by our patrons. So if you've ever wanted a bookseller to basically hand sell you on your next read based on your taste, this episode's for you. You can join us over on Patreon and of course we will have the link to that in our show notes. Gail, thank you so much for being on Book Talk, etc. This went by so fast. We truly could sit here for another hour chit chatting books like Tell me about the Specific Day Today. But thank you so much for your time and listeners, if you are going to make a purchase for any of the books that we're talked about today, we ask that you do so. If you can't get to Wonderland Books in person, head to bookshop.org we will link their store in our show notes below. We ask that you patronize their bookshop.org shop.
- [73:07]
B
Thank you. And you can follow us too. On social media. We have a really great social media manager who creates really entertaining content for us. So we're on Wonderland Bookstagram, which is our Instagram handle, and Wonderland Bookstore, which is T. OK. Which is on TikTok.
- [73:24]
C
Awesome. Wonderland.
- [73:26]
B
Thank you so much for letting me. Yes. For letting me. Come on. This was so much fun.
- [73:31]
A
Absolutely. Our pleasure.
- [73:32]
C
Yes. Thank you.
- [73:36]
B
I can, like, hear your. Your music.
- [73:40]
A
I know.
- [73:41]
B
Your music reminds me. There was one time, I think it was like our book club went away to this, like, this hotel outside of D.C. we had like a little girls weekend and I went for a run and I was listening to your show in there. And when I hear the music, it takes me right back to where I was running. I remember exactly where it was.
- [73:57]
C
That's so funny.
- [73:58]
B
Music is very evocative for me. I'm like, oh, yeah.
- [74:00]
A
Oh, I love that. Makes me so happy.