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- [00:00]
Tina
Oh, you know, the, the eternal struggle of balancing books that we bring to shelf editions that we're not going to bring to books on the radar.
- [00:09]
Hannah
Radar. I know, right?
- [00:12]
Tina
Send help. Please stop touching your hair. Please. Welcome to Book Talk Etc, a podcast bound to grow your tbr. I'm Tina from TBR Etc.
- [00:32]
Hannah
And I'm Hannah from Hand Picked Books.
- [00:34]
Tina
This is a conversational podcast about books and more from two Midwest Mood readers who are easily distracted by new releases. And today we read books published by independent presses.
- [00:45]
Hannah
If you enjoy listening, we'd love for you to follow us on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. And if you have a quick minute, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or sharing us on social media. It truly helps us connect with other book lover hours.
- [00:59]
Tina
Hey, Hannah.
- [01:00]
Hannah
Hey, Tina. How's your day so far?
- [01:02]
Tina
Very good, thank you. Wow, what a. You switched it up. So now I'm like, oh, oh, I don't know, I have to respond. Day so far is good. I feel like we have a relatively low key weekend coming up, which is nice. It's sandwiched in between two very busy weekends, so I'm looking forward to having a little bit of downtime. Of course I say downtime. And Jonathan has ordered trees for our backyard that should be delivered today.
- [01:27]
Hannah
So I guess you'll be planting trees this weekend.
- [01:31]
Tina
Yeah. So how about you? What's your plans for this weekend?
- [01:35]
Hannah
It is. My, my, my son is turning four this weekend, so we're actually gonna do his event party. It's going to be super low key next weekend, but this weekend we're probably going to do something with him. Maybe, you know, take him to the zoo or the movies or something. Something like that. So we'll be celebrating him as a family this weekend and otherwise reading, taking it easy.
- [02:04]
Tina
Yes, I love it. That's what we just finished was Lily's fifth birthday and we had a big party and then we did the movies yesterday and she got her ears pierced. And that's exciting. It's very exciting. I.
- [02:17]
Hannah
How did she fold it?
- [02:18]
Tina
She did okay. I folded it into her five year doctor's appointment because my doctor, her doctor does ear piercings. And so I'm like, yeah, we're going to go get your ear pairs. We'll be at the doctors. It'll be great. She did not quite catch that. She'll also be getting shots and a finger prick and then the ears. But she was very happy when it was done. It was a very pokey day. I'm like, wow, happy Birthday to you, but she actually did awesome. She did really great with it. But I just look at her now, I'm like, oh, my God, you have little ear pierced. Like your little ears are pierced. It's very cute. Anyway, big kids, big events all around to start June. But I also have been reading a boatload. I've been reading so much, which makes me really happy. You know, I don't like when I'm in a slump. Who does? But.
- [03:03]
Hannah
No, but it gives you, like, you get not just ants in your pants, but you get like mad.
- [03:08]
Tina
I get stabby. I do. No, I just don't like it. I don't like it. It makes me mad. But I will say today is going to be interesting because I have some highs and some lows and a lot to say about, I think, all of the books that I'm bringing. So I will start, though with what I have been loving lately. And I'll show you a quick look. Here it is. I'm back to a paper planner, folks. So I was influenced in person. I was in a faculty meeting and someone was sitting next to me and she had this awesome journal. And it was a journal slash planner hybrid. I was just like peering over at it. And finally I'm like, where is this from? And it was hard to find. It was hard to source. I couldn't find it online. I'm sure she got it in some great stationary shop. And I was like, all right. Unfortunately, when I get something in my head, I'm like, I really love this method of planning and I'm going to need to find something that I could find online. And so I did. And what I have, I'm holding a paper planner right now. And what I love about it is that the top part here is blank, where you can write your to do list. You can write whatever, you know, events are going on that day. And then the bottom part is a hour by hour schedule. And I love this. It's sort of, like I said, a hybrid of a paper planner and journal. And I being not that precious with it. I'm trying very hard to just like go up, go with it, right? And just, you know, not. Because sometimes when I get new things, I'm like, oh, I have to use the right pen and this and that. I don't want to make a mistake. I'm trying to not be precious about it. As you can see, it's very chaotic on this page, but it also comes with this little bookmark, and I love it. It started in June. It goes through next Summer. So it was perfect for me because I was like, I need this like immediately. And I love that it was the first week in June when I got this. I also really like that it has this clear cover where you can put stickers on it and they stay protected. So I'm a big fan. It's very, very simple. But I've been loving it. I also want to say I've been using a really chunky pen to write on it. It's like a 1.0 whatever. And it doesn't smear at all. Like it does not smear in the slightest, which I.
- [05:19]
Hannah
What pen is it?
- [05:20]
Tina
I. You know what, we'll link that too because it of course is upstairs. But I will link that. I really like it and I was expecting it to smear, but it doesn't. It kind of. The paper absorbs it. Also, I will say the paper does not bleed a terrible amount, if at all. So I. A little bit like you can see like a little bit of bleeding, but that's actually from over here. So anyway, I've been loving it. I'm back to a paper planner. Will I still use Notion? Yes, of course. I'm using it right now for my script. But in terms of a day by day quick meal planning, what do I need to get done today? What's on my agenda? I've been loving this. It's only $17 too, so it's nothing that's going to break the bank. I've been having a really good time with it. So if you're in the market for a planner in June, which seems like a very odd time, but. But it's a time when I personally have the capacity to sit down and plan my summer, plan the school year, you know what I mean? It works in my brain. So it also has other options in terms of size. This one here that I am holding is the 7x9 size. So I think it's a perfect size for me. It's not too big, not too small. Although they do have 5 by 8 and 8.5 by 11. And this one is from the Global Printed Products Store and It has a 4.9 rating. So I think this is a. A big winner. So I recommend it.
- [06:40]
Hannah
4.9 rating. That's awesome.
- [06:42]
Tina
Pretty good. Yeah, not too bad.
- [06:43]
Hannah
Yeah. I love that you're still using Notion too.
- [06:46]
Tina
I gotta have all the trackers. I've got to have all the planners and trackers and journals and things. It's just who I am.
- [06:51]
Hannah
Yeah, I like to have one that is. That I can access from my computer and one that I can access like with my hands in. What do you call, like a physical. Physical planner.
- [07:02]
Tina
Oh, absolutely. And not to, you know, of course, it's got the spread for the month too. Yeah. So it's not just daily spreads, all of the different spreads. And I use this for everything. I use this for the podcast, I use this for work, I use it for YouTube. So I've been enjoying it a lot.
- [07:19]
Hannah
Awesome. Okay. My loving lately is a little bit different, but my daughter is deep in her summer reading and I wanted to share some books that my 7 year old and my 6 soon to be 4 year old are reading and loving that are a little bit different. So one book that they are really loving is how to Spot a Fairy. This is a illustrated field guide to finding fairies and their familiars. Tina. It is so cute. And this one is great because it has provided a lot of inspiration for imaginary play for my kids. The illustrations are darling and it has just made both of my kids want to build fairy gardens and leave presents for fairies. And we've found fun ways to like, have the fairies leave stuff back for our kids. And it's just been really fun, not only for their reading lives, but also for their play this summer. And then another series that we have really been loving is the weird but true National Geographic series. This they have one on animals, they have one on the human body, on sports, et cetera. My kids have so much fun with these because they're mostly pictures, but then have little snippets of the weird but true facts. And it's a way to encourage them to read and get into a book without having to follow a story. And sometimes they get bored with their typical stories or read alouds. And this is just a nice way to encourage summer reading in a different way. Plus, they're learning fun facts, which is always fun. And then one other recommendation that I have is The Fearless Felines 30 True Tales of Courageous Cats. There's also one about daring dogs as well. We haven't gotten into that one yet, but my daughter loves cats and this has been a great way to introduce nonfiction in a way that is interesting to her and I'm sure other kids as well. This has gotten her really interested in some historical events because there was a cool cat attached to the story. So I think that summer reading can feel overwhelming, especially if your kiddo is a reluctant reader. So I have been trying to give my kids books like these during the day and then save chapter books for read alouds. At night while they do a passive activity like coloring or something like that. And then they accidentally get sucked into the chapter books. But during the day, they've got something a little bit more fun to read on their own. So that's the method to our madness over the summer so far. And I am loving it. I have a lot more recommendations I could share. So if you want more, feel free to shoot me a message. Cause I could talk about this all day.
- [10:09]
Tina
Very good. I love the fairies one specifically. Lily would love that. So I put a hold on it immediately.
- [10:15]
Hannah
Yay.
- [10:16]
Tina
My kids have been into. We need to read to them even more. But my kids have been into Dodo kids. It's a YouTube channel. Oh, yeah. And you were talking about the cats one. Dodo Kids does a lot of highlighting different animals. Like we were watching one about bees earlier and like, even my little, who's not even two, she was just like watching and I'm like, yeah, the bees look scary, right? She's like, yeah, scary. Like, you know, we were just having a good conversation about the animals. But I think it's even better if you can like get it in a book form.
- [10:46]
Hannah
Yeah. I do think that it's nice to have those screen time options though, too, that aren't typical shows that they'll find on Netflix or YouTube. I know Disney, if you have a Disney plus subscription, has those National Geographic shows too. Like they have one on bugs and other specific animals. So those could be good options. I know my kids have enjoyed some of those too. But we gotta get creative in the summertime.
- [11:12]
Tina
We really do. No, that's no joke. Anyway, we could go on a whole tangent of ways we've tried to entertain our kids and it's been, what, a few weeks at this point? Point. But it is the best for me. One of the books that I've read recently that I flew through, but I will talk about it. It is my latest read, which is it's not the End of the World by Jonathan Parks Ramage. And this one's going to sound familiar to you all if you watched or listened to our Summer Bonanza episode, because that was one of the books that I picked for it. This is about Mason Daunt and his husband. And they live a very sheltered, extravagant life amid a collapsing Americ in 2024. Think wildfires, violence, authoritarianism, bad air quality. But it lives outside of their gated community. So they really tried to not think too hard about it. They are having a baby and they plan to celebrate this incoming arrival with a lavish party. And unfortunately for them, their party gets interrupted when a catastrophic event strikes la, forcing everyone into chaos. And I thought that I was getting a silly, fun time with this. I thought it was gonna be an Eat the Rich story where they're at this baby shower and then, I don't know, zombies come in or something crazy is gonna happen and all the rich folks are gonna have to, like, deal with the consequences. And you sort of get that. This book is so much more than that. It is incredibly. I don't want to say complex, but it's very layered. What I describe is essentially the kicking off point. And once you get through the apocalyptic event, you are finding that it's not just an Eat the Rich story, it's an eat everybody story. Because the consequences of our actions are here in this story and we are in trouble, to put it very, very mildly. I was thrown at each and every turn in this book because I was thinking it was going to be relatively straightforward. Like I said, I was expecting a darker thriller. I would not call this a thriller. If you pick this up, know that I'm calling it speculative fiction because it is thrilling in aspects of it, but it's also basically taking present day and putting us in the worst possible scenario 20 years in the future. And what would happen if this, that or the other thing happened? I have to give the author his due because this book gave me anxiety and I. It takes a lot to ruffle my feathers. But I'm reading this as things are happening in our world and I'm like, is he predicting? Does he know what's going on? Because he names real people that are real folks in our government today. And I'm like, oh, my God, it's just so jarring to be. Yeah. And I. It is bold. And thankfully, I'm reading this and sort of struggling emotionally with it because it's so smart. And it's also got moments of levity. It's also got moments of, like, funny, funny segments. It's also very spicy in elements. And so luckily, I love book friends. I messaged my friend Brett from Brett's book stack and I knew he had done an interview with the author. I'm like, brett, can you help me out? What's going on? Because I couldn't tell where this was going. And he goes, are you at part two yet? And I'm like, I don't know. And unfortunately, I only had the audio for this. I think it would play better if you had the print version 2, because it does do a little playing with time and, you know, period of time and point of view. So I was a little confused. And he said, once you get to part two, things change. And he is correct. It changed in a way that you're like, oh, okay, this is a banana pants story. Like, I just need to lean in and go on for the ride. Because it's not this linear tale that I was expecting. It gets weird, but also pretty enjoyable. And this isn't. At first, it's very realistic. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, these things are happening and could really happen to us. And then it think it's crazy, but also wild in a way that maybe could happen someday if we don't change certain things that are happening in our present day. It sounds like I hated this. And I didn't. I did not hate this. I'm landing, I think, at 3.75 stars, if I have to put too fine a point on it, because I enjoyed it. It's absolutely well written, but it made me uncomfy. So if you're somebody that doesn't like climate thrillers because they feel too real, I would avoid it because this one feels very real. I mean, they're wearing designer gas masks outside. Like, that's the level of, like, cognitive dissonance that you're dealing with here. But at the same time, it is very freaking creative and very, very interesting. My comps for this one is John Fram's book the Bright Lands. If you've read that, you kind of know how wild it gets at the end. That's sort of the vibe here. Also, open your eyes by Clay McLeod Chapman, I think is the name of the book where it's very much. It's almost like social horror. So that is my explanation of this book. I haven't talked to anybody about this other than Brett, and thank you to Brett for telling me to hang in there. And, like, we got to talk about it after. That was nice to do. And we can link to his podcast episode, too, because it's nice to hear the author talk about their inspiration, but that if you want to talk to somebody about it, feel free to message me. This book is it's not the End of the World by Jonathan Parks Raimage.
- [17:04]
Hannah
Yeah, it's hard when we really appreciate what an author is trying to do. And it might not 100% work for us, but we can still, you know, respect the creative act and the work that it took to put something so unique together.
- [17:20]
Tina
Exactly. And this is really creative, really smart, really, really sharp, very terrifying. Yeah, those are my adjectives for you.
- [17:28]
Hannah
Yeah, well, speaking of complicated feelings about our latest reads, I also had complicated feelings about mine and it was also one on my Summer Bonanza list, and that is the River Is Waiting by Wally Lamb. So this was actually number three on my Summer Bonanza. So I had really high hopes for this one. This is about Corby Ledbetter, who is really struggling. New fatherhood, the loss of his job and a growing secret addiction have really thrown his marriage to Emily in a tailspin. The story starts off in chapter one with a horrific tragic accident caused by Corby that catapults this family into life. Shattering heartbreak. This first chapter was hard to read. In the beginning chapters of the book we discover Corby's acknowledgment of what he's done, acceptance, and then his consequence, which is a lifetime prison sentence. We then follow him in prison as he navigates this new normal. We follow him as he bears witness to acts of brutality, but also small acts of kindness and a kinship with the prison librarian who sees the good in him and sees his light. He also develops a friendship with one of his fellow offenders, including a tender hearted cellmate and also a troubled teen who is desperate for a role model. This ultimately is a story about acceptance and self forgiveness after a mistake that would feel to anyone impossible to move forward after. So yeah, this was really high up on my Summer Bonanza list and it was one of those books that for the most part I'm happy. It exists because of the light that it sheds on just the full scope of humanity, including those who have done terrible things but are still trying to find forgiveness and reconciliation and a way to move forward. And I thought that having a book set primarily in prison and showing a full life of someone who has spent so much time there was smart and well done and I appreciated that this author wanted to demonstrate the hope and humanity using this setting. Ultimately though, I did have some qualms with this one. I thought that more could be done to make the book feel not so redundant because it is set in prison for the majority of the book and this is a 500 plus page or no, it's a 450 page novel, so it's, it's a longer one. I did like that there was found family, but something about it just felt a little dry and repetitive. On top of that we have a white author that is using a lot of harmful language and slurs that I know are probably definitely a part of this community and culture, but it didn't feel tactful. Coming from a white author in 2025. So I had some problems with that. I think that the culture could have been demonstrated in a more tactful. This is one of those books that I'm actually not regretful that I read, and I think that there is some merit to the story and what the author was trying to do here, but I have some pretty serious criticisms of his writing and his narrative voice. Would I recommend it? I don't know. I think that there is a lot to discuss here, and I think that it could make a really good book for book club, but it's not necessarily one that I would recommend. No.
- [21:09]
Tina
So.
- [21:10]
Hannah
So a little bit disappointing, but that is. The River Is Waiting by Wally Lamb.
- [21:14]
Tina
Really good job. And I'm still curious. So I love when we are able to give reviews that maybe aren't as glowing as we would like. Of course we'd like to bring all five stars, but that's not realistic. This is our book recommendation podcast. And sometimes, you know, what doesn't work for me might work for you, but I'm still curious about that one. I also want to know the terrible thing that happened, and it sounds like it was a very powerful beginning.
- [21:43]
Hannah
Yes. And if you are a reader that really needs, like, specific trigger warnings, feel free to reach out to me. But because it is. It is pretty intense, I am not a terribly sensitive reader, and I had a hard time with.
- [21:55]
Tina
Yeah.
- [21:56]
Hannah
That particular thing that happened. So.
- [21:58]
Tina
Of course. Okay. All right, well, good call out. And we are talking today about independent publishers. And if you've listened to the podcast for any amount of time, or if you know me from online, you know, I cannot bring myself to pay attention to who publishes what to save my life. It's just not something that happens organically for me. I cannot remember who's publishing what. And we pitched this episode a while ago, and I remember thinking, like, what is an independent publisher? I know that might sound surprising that I didn't know exactly what an independent publisher was, but you were gracious enough basically to help define it for me. So, Hannah, what is an independent publisher? Publisher.
- [22:41]
Hannah
Yeah. So independent publishers, often called indie presses, are really just publishing houses that operate outside of the major publishing conglomerates. So you have what is called the big five, and that's Penguin, Random House, Harper Collins, Simon and Schuster, Hachette and Macmillan. And anything under those are part of traditional publishing. So independent publishers usually are smaller, a little bit more agile, and they're driven by editorial passion, and they usually have a niche subject or type of book. That they are looking for in the things that they publish. So, for example, you have Europa Editions, they do all translated literature. You have Gray Wolf Press, which is one that I really like. They are a non profit literary publisher and they publish poetry, nonfiction, and works in translation with a focus on publishing books by visionary writers who transform culture through literature. So they typically have something very specific about what they want to publish that they have a focus on. But ultimately they're just not a part of the big five and they run independently.
- [24:08]
Tina
Awesome. Thank you for that. And that was. Even I did not realize that, of course, this makes sense now that you're saying it, but that certain independent publishers focus on specific niches. Whether it's a genre that they're focusing on or diverse authors or poetry or whatever it is. They sort of have their lane that they really focus on. And I imagine that allows them to branch out a bit and sort of dig in and find more. I don't even want to say under the radar authors, but just find things that maybe aren't as. I don't know. Buzzy.
- [24:42]
Hannah
Yeah. Well, and that's partly why I wanted to do an episode around independent publishers. Because some of their books can kind of go under the radar because they don't have. I mean, they don't. They don't have the resources that the big five publishers have to even market their authors and those books. And so I think it's nice to be able to give those books and publishers a little bit of a chance and maybe shout out some of their books that we're reading.
- [25:16]
Tina
I agree. And I'm glad that you brought this up because again, I find it very hard to keep track of who publishes what. But now I have a better handle on it, even from you and I talking about creating this episode. And now it's kind of fun. I'm like, okay, now I can. Where I get lost is all of the big five. Right. And then all of the imprints. I cannot remember who falls under what. And do you know what I mean? Like, you've got Atria, for example. They're not a big five publisher. Right. But they fall underneath one.
- [25:45]
Hannah
Yeah. Because they fall under Simon and Schuster.
- [25:48]
Tina
See, it. Is that just in your brain. You just know that.
- [25:50]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [25:51]
Tina
Okay. And not something. I'm better with authors. And I know that's something that's not your favorite, is tracking like. Like which authors wrote what. But I'm pretty good.
- [26:00]
Hannah
Yes. Yeah. I have a hard time keeping track. Not for my favorites. Like some of my favorites, I can obviously Keep up with. But all the time someone will post about a new book that's coming out and then I'll recognize that book and that cover and then they'll say, yeah, this is the same author as the person who wrote XYZ back in 2013. And I'm like, oh, I would have never put that together just by seeing the author's name. So yeah, that's something that I have a hard time keeping up with personally.
- [26:34]
Tina
For sure that I can, I'm good with authors. I always can kind of keep track of that. But I think you said you shared a couple of your favorites. What about them is sticks out for you?
- [26:48]
Hannah
So really just the fact that the books that I have picked up from certain imprints have worked for me I think a lot of times when or not imprints, but from those publishers. So books from those publishers have worked for me. And I think because a lot of these specific publishers do have a focus, they are a little bit more curated. And so it might be that I have super similar taste with some of their editors. And that's why books from that publishing house work for me because they're looking specifically for books written by women in translation that focus on cultural issues. And those editors and publicists pick those books up and they have the same taste as me. And so I think that it's easier to know that you like a certain independent publisher than it is maybe a publisher from a big five because their publishing anything and everything under the sun. And so I think it can be harder to find big five publishers that you're like, yes, this is one that I pretty much always align with, taste wise.
- [28:01]
Tina
Yes, okay, no, and that makes sense. I also really like the idea of supporting obviously smaller authors or authors that don't have that budget to back them because that's not, that's not a mark of quality for the book necessarily. It's just they, you know, have not gotten picked up and I don't know how it works. How do you find a publisher? I know you're querying and all of those things. So I don't, I don't pretend to know what happens behind the scenes. I also think to what you said that it allows you to sort of trust like, okay, I know that I really like Europa editions. Like, I know that that's a small team. I know what they're focusing on. It gives you a better. It narrows the scope of what you can expect from picking up one of their books.
- [28:46]
Hannah
Yeah. And it's always really fun. I think when a book really blows up from one of these independent publishers. I know when Braiding Sweetgrass came out a while ago, that's from an independent publisher, Milkweed Editions. And I know that book really helped them kind of boost their marketing and their ability to continue to publish more books. And I mean, Fourth Wing was published by an independent publisher. I'm actually bringing another book by that same independent publisher today. I mean, Fourth Wing made Red Tower books pop off to the point where people have been very disappointed their books when they've continued to read Red Tower books moving forward. But the one that I'm bringing today I think might have redeemed them a little bit. So.
- [29:37]
Tina
Okay, that'll be fun to talk about.
- [29:38]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [29:40]
Tina
And now I'm like, well, now I need to know what independently published books got really popular. And I'm like, of course. I'm like, looking online as I'm trying to. I'm like, building the bridge as we're walking over it. Yeah, I will go down that particular rabbit hole later. Is there anything you want to add about indie presses?
- [29:59]
Hannah
No, I don't think so. I'm excited to hear about your books.
- [30:03]
Tina
Well, I will happily tell you. The first one I'm bringing is a book that I consulted with you on. It's called after the Ocean by Lauren E. Rico. And this one is published by Kensington. And I found out in my studies that Kensington is the largest independent press. Is that correct?
- [30:21]
Hannah
Oh, okay. I didn't know that. That's a fun fact, though.
- [30:24]
Tina
A fun fact. They are independently family owned. They were founded in 1974. It says they're known for the diversity of authors and books it publishes. Now, this book, first of all, it matches my outfit, which I'm like, always a fan about or a fan of. But that's not why I brought it. After the Ocean. If you look at this cover, it's Hannah. What are you going to expect? What do you think this type of book is?
- [30:45]
Hannah
A thriller?
- [30:46]
Tina
Yeah. Doesn't it give thriller? It gave me thriller. And I actually got this one from Aardvark because I had not heard anything about it. I thought it was a thriller. And I was like, oh, it's written by a Puerto Rican author. Like, I always love to find thrillers that are written by authors of color. And so I grabbed it. And this is pitched as being a book about a painful, unsolved mystery that resurfaces after decades of confusion. It's got intergenerational trauma, family, and the beauty of Puerto Rico in it. And the book opens with A couple on a cruise ship and Amelia Olivera married Paul, her dream man. They are on this Caribbean cruise, it's their honeymoon and things are great until one night Paul disappears from their ship and they don't find him and they presume that he's drowned. And unfortunately for Amelia, they were married and they eloped. So nobody was really at their wedding except the person officiating it. It seems like some of the documentation about what took place is missing. And so people begin to wonder, ma' am, did you throw him overboard? Because he comes from a very wealthy family and she does not. Something really bad happens on the ship and she ends up escaping her home in Puerto Rico and moves to the Seattle area and changes her name to Emily Oliver. Suburban wife and mother, too. She never forgot about Paul, though, and feels like she's lived her life with this target on her back. She's like, someday the other shoe will drop. I just don't know when that will be. And then you get another perspective in this and it shifts pretty quickly. And I was like, wait, where's the other character? What's going on? Because the book begins 30 years ago, and then it flashes to what is present day. And you're following this lawyer, her name is Gracie. And Gracie, you find out, is Emily's daughter. And you're like, okay, that's the connection. That's what's going on here. Gracie's having issues of her own, moves home, and then their mom gets a phone call and is like, hey, Paul might be alive. And she drops everything and runs to Puerto Rico. And that's what the story is about. This took me a little bit to get into because again, as I stated, it starts 30 years in the past. And then you're trying to figure out, like, where are we in time? We're bouncing back and forth a little bit. And I would call this a slow burn. There's definitely a mystery that's driving it, and I do like that. But this is not a thriller. It's really not. And I think I was. Once I adjusted my expectations a little bit, I liked it more. I also kind of liked the sisters, although they did begin to grate on me because Emily has two children. The one that you're focused on, and then her little sister. And they have a ton of decades old drama that sort of at the end began to feel a little bit like filler, like you needed another subplot to drive the story forward. And I don't think we really needed it. But I was curious and I did enjoy Learning a little bit about Puerto Rican culture because it sounds like the author's grandparents are from there. And she wove in some things, but I have to say, it did great on me because it's not the most well written book I've ever read. And she also would throw in some Spanish phrases, but would be very clear to define them in a way that was super clunky because there was always a character that happened to not speak Spanish in the room. And so they literally, at one point, they're talking about the playa. And then she would, like, look at the other character and be like, we're talking about the beach. And it's like, right, we know that we could use our context clues. And it just felt added in, and I don't think it needed that. There were some other issues I had with the dialogue and the writing. It just was not. I was also reading this as I was reading, I think, Julie Clark's book the Ghostwriter. And so it's just a stark juxtaposition between two writing styles. And I'm like, you know, I'm picky, right, with writing. And I think that's okay to be. Halfway through, though. Once I said, okay, it's not a thriller, and you're just gonna have to deal with the dialogue, I appreciated it more. You get resolution, and you very much get resolution with this when you very clearly get told what happened.
- [34:58]
Hannah
And.
- [34:59]
Tina
And sometimes I hear people say this a lot. It's more telling than showing, and I do feel like this book did that, but I'm okay with it. At the end of the day, I think this is a book about family secrets. It's a story of forgiveness and second chances. I would say if you view this as maybe women's fiction with some mystery elements to it, you might like it more. There is a good payoff. I enjoy the ending, and I think that is what I will say about that. I could see this being great for book club because if you're a voracious reader, you could get through it. If you're somebody that only reads a few books, I still think even if you're not, you know, paying that close of attention, you will still get a fair amount out of it. I also appreciate the author's note. She talks about one particular storyline and how she basically did research for it. And it also includes some book club questions. Kensington added those to the end, and I kind of like that. Don't look at them too close if you're watching us on YouTube, because I think they're spoilers in it. I just noticed. I'm like, ah. Anyway, that is where I landed. I'm giving it three stars out of five. And that's after the Ocean by Lauren E. Rico.
- [36:06]
Hannah
That was such a good, balanced review. So really good job with that.
- [36:12]
Tina
I tried.
- [36:13]
Hannah
I really appreciated all of your notes. And it's okay to be picky about writing. And it's okay to be picky about writing. You know, that's one of your things.
- [36:22]
Tina
Also, I alluded to something earlier, so I want to close the loop. And I said, I consulted with you on this one because at one point before I realized that I wasn't getting the thriller I expected, I'm like, hannah, I hate it. I'm not enjoying this. And you were like, you can put it down. You can put it aside. I'm like, I don't think so. I'm not. I'm gonna fight through. And I'm glad. At the end of the day, I'm glad that I read it. So thanks for consulting with me on this one.
- [36:44]
Hannah
Of course. Always. And I wanted to loop back to Kensington being the largest independent firm, so they are the largest to publish in the paperback field. So although you were holding up a hardcover, that was because Aardvark produces hardcovers and they purchased that book as a part of their subscription box. But if you were to buy this book from a store or Barnes and Noble or something like that, then it would come in paperback.
- [37:15]
Tina
Very good to know.
- [37:16]
Hannah
Kind of a fun fact.
- [37:17]
Tina
That is a fun fact that I didn't consider.
- [37:20]
Hannah
Okay, so my first read is from Red Tower Books. And it's funny because I alluded to, oh, independent presses are great because it can bring you more under the radar books. And while that is true, this one is certainly not under the radar because it is Shield of Sparrows by Deveny Perry, which is taking TikTok by storm in the Romantasy niche at the moment. And this is a slow burn, high stakes Romantasy novel that is the first in a new series and we are following Odessa, who has spent her life kneeling and bending to her father's will. As a princess, her only duty is to wear the crown and obey the king. But all of that changes when a legendary monster hunter sails to her kingdom and claims her as the Sparrow. So from here we follow Odessa in her new life, crossing treacherous lands and fighting monsters beside a warrior who seems to despise her, bound to a future that she did not choose and a husband that she doesn't know at all. So really Interesting premise. And while I do enjoy romance, fantasy and romantasy, I can be a little fussy about it and I can confidently say I did not love the way this book was written. I did really enjoy the story and the romance. I loved the high stakes. That was the best part for me. I enjoyed the monster fighting and the constant anxiety that kept me turning pages. I thought that the lore in this story was really exciting and fascinating. I also liked the slow burn romance. I totally believed that these two characters fell in love with each other. And while I found Odessa frustrating at times in her constant rumination about her self worth, I did for the most part enjoy the two love interests individually as well. I thought this one also delivered a lot of plot twists that genuinely surprised me and I am someone who is a constant thinker while I am reading and she definitely There were some gotcha moments where I was like okay, I did not see that coming. There were some predictable ones as well, but I really appreciated being got. But what frustrated me the most about this one was our main character's inner dialogue. This was how the world building was set up and it was just Odessa constantly asking questions. Is this why the monsters attack us? Is this why I'm the sparrow? Has this been the plan all along? If the prince falls in love with me, you know what? What's going to happen? What? What are the monsters? What does this mean? It was so grating and it was my biggest gripe with the story overall. And this one also I don't think needed to be 550 pages. It was long and I hate that. Yeah, it was. It was a little too long. That said, did I enjoy it? Yeah, I did. I had fun with this one and it almost felt nostalgic just staying up late with my Kindle reading about monsters and fighting kingdoms and arranged marriages. So TBD on whether or not I will pick up the next book in the series when it comes out, depending on if I remember anything that happened in this one. But this was a fun time and it was Shield of Sparrows by Deveny.
- [40:55]
Tina
Perry I am so glad that you read this and I love I'm picturing you sitting with your little Kindle and your blanket and just like so cozy reading this. What made you grab this one?
- [41:06]
Hannah
I was really in the mood for Romantasy and I had the thought that a lot of books on Kindle Unlimited or you know from independent publishers that they publish a lot of fantasy romance romantasy and I was like this will be perfect for an upcoming episode. I Had just heard so many people talking about this one, and I had fomo. I wanted to know what all the fuss was about. So I'm really glad that I got to hop on this one while it was getting a lot of buzz, because I don't often do that. And I'm so happy that I did, because I feel like now I can be a part of the conversation, which is always fun.
- [41:43]
Tina
That is always fun. Yeah. I was wondering if you. Because I don't. I don't. I'd never heard of this, and I was wondering if it was still swelling in terms of popularity or if, like, you had heard of this a while ago or whatever. But it is really fun to be a part of something as it's building.
- [41:57]
Hannah
Yeah. It came out in early May, so.
- [41:59]
Tina
Oh, okay.
- [42:00]
Hannah
It's still getting buzzed. But I would say that the buzz really started amping up, like, late May, early June, and it's just now mid.
- [42:08]
Tina
June, so I love that. Yeah. And it's so funny for us. We're like, of course that's for the vast majority of people. In early May is still very much a new release for us. We're like, well, you know how we work. You know how we work. It does move quick. And I'm gonna tell you about this book. So when I finished it's not the End of the World, I was like, I need something stupid. I need something light. My brain hurts. That. That one hurt me. So I grabbed a book called Don't Believe her by Nicola Sanders. This one. And I say stupid with the most love I can muster in my heart because I was like, I need a popcorn thriller. I need to turn my brain off and just be entertained. And this one delivered, it is from an independent press called Furfies Press. I do believe that they only publish this author's books, so I think it's very small. So maybe it's self published. Listen again. I told you this is not my area of strength.
- [43:07]
Hannah
We'll count it.
- [43:08]
Tina
We will count it. And this book was so good. This book is about a woman who is engaged and she has a young daughter. She's like, everything is finally going my way. She has had a crush on this man for as long as she can remember because he is the brother of her former best friend, Carla. And I say former best friend because Carla, 17 years ago disappeared and now she's back. She shows up at their house and is like, hey, I'm back. And everyone is so excited about her return because she's literally been missing for the last I think it's about 17 or so years. And you would think that our main character, I think her name is Allie, is. You would think she would be the first one in line to be excited, but she can immediately tell, no, that's not Carla. I know it's not. That is not her. And yet no one believes her. You know, I love when an unexpected guest shows up. And that's what this book is. This unexpected person shows up and everyone around her seems to be like, great, we've been waiting for you. Meanwhile, myself and the main character are like, where have you been? What do you mean? You were in Paris? They have the Internet. What's going on here? I loved it because you are just in the middle of the story with the main character asking questions, not getting satisfying answers, being gaslit by people around you and then like, also, like, maybe she is, maybe she isn't. And it was pure entertainment from start to finish. I read this in a single sitting. I say read and single sitting loosely because I listened to it in one day is what I mean by that. What I liked is that there's a light podcast element involved because she sort of hits up. This true crime podcast is like, hey, I've got this great story. But it didn't do the thing I was expecting, which was typically, oh, yeah, that's the kicking off point. The true crime podcasters investigate, blah, blah, blah. No. They were like, no, there's no story here. So I kind of liked that because it forced Allie, the main character, to really try and uncover things for herself. There are so many wild reveals in this one. This one is so messy. And while I did guess some of the reveals, I did not care because sometimes it's fun to feel vindicated. You're like, I knew it. I saw this one coming. I saw that one coming. And I, like, cheered in different scenes. There's also a lot of twists, but they didn't feel. They should have felt silly, but they didn't. It was more like I was nodding my head, like, heck, yeah. I really liked this one. This is a family with secrets. This is a family that is. Got a lot of drama going around. There were some interesting people that came into play, and the red herrings made sense. It wasn't like anything supernatural. There wasn't anything silly like that going on. It was just a very entertaining, twisty, dramatic psychological thriller, and I loved it. This one, I think, is getting a little. I grabbed it because it's getting a little bit of buzz online in, like, the psychological thriller Facebook group. Space. And I remember seeing this cover a couple times. I'm like, let me just give it a shot. It is on. I got it on my hoopla. It's also on Kindle Unlimited. But overall I had a great time with it and it kept me company as I was preparing for our kids birthday party. So highly, highly recommend this one. If you like popcorn thrillers, it is Don't Believe her by Nicola Sanders.
- [46:38]
Hannah
Oh, how fun. Sounds perfect for summer.
- [46:41]
Tina
So fun. Great for summer. Did everything I wanted it to do.
- [46:45]
Hannah
Well, I brought two chunky books. My first two books I brought were big. So I'm, you know, finishing us off with a short little novella which is Foster by Claire Keegan. And this is from Grove Press. Yeah. So I know we both read and loved small things like these and I've always wanted to read more of her work. And this is such a sweet book. It is about a hot summer in rural Ireland and a child is taken by her father to live with relatives on a remote farm. And she does not know when or if she will be brought home again. And in the Kinsella's house she finds affection and warmth that she has never known before. And in their care she begins to blossom and grow and find love. I am going to leave it at that because this is a very short book. It's a hundred pages and that is literally all it is about. I love Claire Keegan's writing. I love that she can make you completely fall in love with people in a span of 100 pages. Yeah, I love that she can make you feel deeply in such a short amount of time. I think that this is such a good palette cleanser of a book for literary fiction readers who don't want to stray away from reading something deep and meaningful, but don't necessarily want to commit themselves to an epic literary conquest. Her Keegan's writing is very spare, but she is able to evoke so much emotion. And although this book is told from a young girl's perspective, it is moving and it is deep and poignant and just so heartwarming. This is the perfect thing, I think, to pick up in between your literary epics this summer. And I highly recommend it and Claire Keegan in general. And that is Foster by Claire Keegan.
- [48:52]
Tina
Ah, I'm so glad you brought that one because we need, I feel like after all of this we need like a nice story.
- [48:58]
Hannah
Like let's just a nice little topper.
- [49:00]
Tina
A nice little cherry on top because my shelf edition is not going to be that cherry. Let's Be honest. Okay, you're probably used to that. This is a book that is coming out on October 21st and it is from a trusted author. It is the Midnight Knock by John Fram. I love this cover. It is so good. It's also a locked room thriller. Excuse me? I'm into it. This is set in West Texas, where he tends to set a lot of his books. You have seven weary travelers who converge on a lonely motel at the foot of a massive mountain. Ethan and Hunter have left behind a corpse, an arson, and a horrific act of violence. Kayla and Fernanda are making a desperate escape to the border. Stanley and his granddaughter are on their way back from Mexico with a mysterious man pursuing them on a motorcycle. All of them are on the run from something and all of them have something to hide. And somehow they're all connected to the motel's eighth guest, an enigmatic woman named Sarah Powers. Within hours, Sarah is debt. The stranger twins who run the motel inform the surviving guests that her murder demands justice. The guests are given an ultimatum. Bring proof of who killed Sarah by midnight or die when the protective lights around the motel go out. Because something very old and dangerous lurks in the corner of the desert and it's hungry. Okay, so maybe a little supernatural here. But nothing at break in motel is quite as it seems. As time ticks away, alliances fracture and secrets unravel. The guests will have have to confront not just the violent of the past. They will need to face the darkness within themselves. This one is said to blend psychological tension, supernatural horror and intricate storytelling. And it pushes the boundaries of a what a mystery could be. Now, I love that it tells you right up front supernatural horrors involved. Thank you for that. Because I don't like when it gets dropped on me. I need to know that's a plot twist. I don't like that. I need to know that it's a part of it. Because if it's a part of it, then I'm fine with it. I have proper expectations. But.
- [51:04]
Hannah
But.
- [51:05]
Tina
Because then you can play along and you know, like, okay, I'm not going to be able to guess this. Something crazy is going to happen from left field. Whereas if it's a traditional, like, imagine if the popcorn thriller I was just describing was like, oh, and it was a zombie. She was actually a zombie. Like, that would not be fair. So this, I think sounds really, really good. It's the Midnight Knock by John Fram.
- [51:26]
Hannah
Yeah, I think the it was a ghost all along is like an anti buzzword for you.
- [51:33]
Tina
Totally not for you. Oh wait, no. The only time I liked it was the Sixth Sense spoiler from a movie that came out in the 90s that I liked. That was a good twist, but ever since then it's been overdone.
- [51:48]
Hannah
So my shelf edition is also not a light one. And this is a non fiction book that is coming out in September. It is called Scream With Me Horror Films and the Rise of American Feminism 1968-1980 by Eleanor Johnson. And this is about Dr. Eleanor Johnson, who watched along her students as the Supreme Court reversed Roe versus Wade and at the same time her class was studying the 1968 horror film Rosemary's Baby and Johnson had a sudden epiphany. Horror cinema engages directly with combustive politics of women's rights and offers a light through the darkness and an outlet to scream. With a voice as persuasive as it is insightful, Johnson reveals how classics like Rosemary's Baby, the Exorcist and the Shining expose and critique issues of reproductive control, domestic violence and patriarchal oppression. This is going to weave iconic films and media into the fabric of of American feminism, revealing that true horror often lies not in the supernatural, but in the familiar confines of our homes, exposing the deep seated fears and realities of women's lives. While on the hand of a joyful celebration of seminal and beloved horror films, Scream With Me is said to also be an unflinching and timely recognition of the power of this genre to shape and reflect cultural dialogues about gender and power. Sounds right up my alley. This is exactly why I love horror and thriller. And while I don't watch a lot of current horror films, I do love some of those old classics and I love the horror genre as a whole. So this sounds so good to me. That is Scream With Me Horror Films and the Rise of American Feminism 1968-1980 by Eleanor Johnson.
- [53:53]
Tina
That sounds wonderful and I feel like there's a few. I've seen a few non fiction horror novels floating around this year. Yeah, Sound interesting.
- [54:02]
Hannah
Yeah, I agree.
- [54:04]
Tina
Well, that's it for today and we thank you for spending a part of your day with us. Links to all the books mentioned can be found in the show notes and if you enjoyed today's episode, you can help us by following wherever you listen and by leaving a review review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us get our show out to new listeners and grows our audience. And don't forget, if you'd like access to exclusive bonus content and community, you can join us for $5 a month on Patreon.com. bookTalk. Etc.
- [54:29]
Hannah
If you'd like to connect with us, you can email us@booktalk etcmail.com. you can also connect with us both at Booktalk. Etc. On Instagram and BookTalk. Etc on YouTube. You can find Tina at TBR Etc. And Hannah at HandpickedBooks. Talk to you next week. And in the meantime, remember, everything's better with books.
- [54:58]
Tina
Ahem. Three, two, one.
- [55:04]
Hannah
Oh, I hate when I do that while I'm talking. Adam, all the time.
- [55:10]
Tina
The water's trying to, like, fight its way back out. We're not swallowed yet.
- [55:14]
Hannah
Oh, my gosh. Oh, yes. A carbonated beverage. A perfect thing to fix that issue.
- [55:21]
Tina
Shut up. No, it's the last thing I need.