B (3:04)

Oh, I think that gave me the chills because I think that's actually the central, not even theme, but the central feeling of the book.

A (3:12)

Laura and I talk about the complicated, intimate terrain of mother daughter relationships and the ways that women uplift one another. We also talk about how forgiveness can become a kind of bravery. So if you're in the mood for some smart literary insight, some emotional depth, and a little behind the scenes Hollywood tea, you are absolutely in the right place. Let's turn the page with Laura Dave. Laura Dave, welcome back to the club.

B (3:40)

Thank you for having me.

A (3:41)

Well, since I'm already comfortable with you, I always like to ask one unhinged question per interview and I thought, let me just start the episode with it. So in keeping with the theme of your latest thriller, the first time I Saw him, if you were going to be involved in organized crime, what would you do? And what would be your cover line?

B (4:01)

So what's so funny is I think about this all the time to the point that my husband is like, where do you think? What do you think like will be? I love a car trip. Like, a road trip is like, keep me away from airports. Like, drive me through Moab, Utah, drive me up the coast to Big Sur. And whenever we're driving, I'm always like, we could live there. They never find us. Like, I'll point to, like, these random places on the side of the road and, like, be like, no one's looking for us there. We can just be. And he's like, why aren't you telling me? So in my ideal world, in my cover, I would move to Big Sur, okay? Because first of all, that road is always closed. So, like, there is no way to even find you. Once you're in, you're just in. And it's really off the grid. And I've always wanted to live there and I would probably were. And now I think it's called Ventana Big Sur. I really have this all figured out. But Now I can't do it, so let's hope I'm not involved in organizing that. But I would get a job at Ventana Big Circus, one of my happiest places on earth when I was younger and writing my first several books. I would always finish my books there. I would go stay and finish my books there. I wrote a piece for Modern Love in the Times all the way back in 2008. I got my identity stolen in this, like, crazy way. And the first place I went was like, Big Sur after that happened. So I guess that's probably the closest I'm gonna get to something on him.

A (5:32)

For another podcast episode, I need to hear the story of how your identity was stolen.

B (5:36)

Oh, my God, it was bananas. Bananas.

A (5:38)

That is.

B (5:39)

So that is where I would go. I would work at that hotel and, you know, just keep it real quiet.

A (5:44)

So this is one of my favorite questions to ask random people that I meet, like at dinner parties. And you know what the most common answer is?

B (5:53)

Yeah.

A (5:53)

Art heist. A lot of people want to be an art thief.

B (5:57)

I had such a big cover up that I didn't even think of the crime. I love and, like, there's nothing I like more than a heist movie. Yeah. So I. I am completely here for that answer. Okay. I would love that. I would love that.

A (6:10)

So after the art heist, we'll find you at Big Sur.

B (6:13)

Yeah, Perfect. Definitely. Yeah.

A (6:15)

And that specific hotel. We know where to find you as.

B (6:18)

A bartender, probably at that hotel.

A (6:21)

Uh, bartender is interesting because I just learned that before you were an author, you were a journalist.

B (6:28)

I was, yes.

A (6:29)

And you know, something I learned on that panel we did for the first Shine Away was that because you were not the only former journalist and there were a lot of former attorneys that became authors. And I can understand it from a journalist perspective because I think we're trained to take in what's happening and then kind of notice that person in the corner and that one detail that hasn't been covered. From what I understand, that's exactly what you did to begin this book series. Yes, you were. I know you mentioned a few weeks ago that you were fascinated by Enron. Is that what started it all?

B (7:02)

Enron started it all? Because I was so interested in this idea about what if you know something about your spouse or your partner or whomever good friend that the rest of the world was telling you was inaccurate, how well do we know the people we love? And I think journalism has always been something that's really interesting to me. And the way I Became. And I was not a great journalist, I don't think, because I'm more interested in storytelling than, like, figuring out the facts and putting that forth. But when I was very young, I must have been 19 or 20, I always wanted to be a storyteller. And I actually reached out to Nora Ephron and asked if I could be her assistant. And in the craziest of worlds, she wrote me back and said, you. You're gonna learn less from getting pantyhose for me than you'll learn being a journalist. Go work at a newspaper. Go work at a magazine. Figure out how to put everything in that first paragraph before the jump. And that was, like, the best advice in the whole world that I could have gotten from my very favorite writer of all time. So all of which is to say is I approach writing as a journalist. But the best part is I get to make up the story.

A (8:16)

I guess I kept thinking about what I would do in that situation. And I understand not standing by your partner. And I understand standing by your partner. Did you think about yourself in that situation? Is that sort of the question that started the first book?

B (8:33)

You know, really what started it for me more than anything. And I think it took me a while to catch up to what started it, because I wasn't yet a parent, was, I think, from the very first page when I was writing that book. And I worked on it for 10 years on and off. So it had a gazillion iterations. It always came down to Hannah and Bailey. And I think it was me figuring out, if a child is dropped into your life, how do you figure out how to become a parent to her? Yeah, that was my central question. I thought I was looking at the love story between Owen and Hannah, but I was looking at this love story between a mother and a child.

A (9:13)

How. Why was that in your consciousness?

B (9:17)

I think because there are so many ways that we end up parenting people that maybe we didn't even give birth to, that we end up being the primary person for someone who really needs us. And I was. I think I wanted to honor that sort of primal commitment to somebody.

A (9:38)

Yeah.

B (9:38)

And I like the idea that Hannah, despite the fact that she was never mothered properly, she got there for somebody else. And I wanted to watch that evolution happen between them. I think that's also why, you know, you asked me the last time we spoke about why I picked up five years later, because something I'm hearing from readers is how much they love seeing that Hannah and Bailey are now on the other side and they're so incredibly close, which is just such a nice thing.

A (10:09)

So I'm thinking about Enron. Cause my mom was. She sells mortgages, So I remember Enron so well. Yes, and it happened in 2003. Ish, I think.

B (10:20)

Yes, exactly.

A (10:21)

But your first book came out in 2021. So was this story on your heart for that long?

B (10:26)

Correct. I say I started writing it in 2012. But I started the research. My playlist, as it were.

A (10:33)

Wow.

B (10:34)

Was already in development in 2011. And what is the prologue in? The last thing he told me I wrote in 2003, but I just didn't write the story until later. That's how long it took me to figure out how to really how I wanted to attack the story. Cause it was a combination of Enron. And then shortly before my husband and I got married, we received for a wedding present, this woodturned bowl. And I was fascinated by woodturning after that. I didn't ever know about that. I thought the fact that this bowl was made off of a laugh, like lathe, it was fascinating to me. And you wouldn't think you could merge Enron with woodturning and find your way there, but that was the secret formula for me.

A (11:18)

And so for people who are listening that are aspiring writers, I'm curious what you would say to them. Because my initial question for you is, like, what got you unstuck? But I don't think you were stuck. I think it was more of a timing thing.

B (11:32)

I think it was a timing thing. I think stories need to marinate and they take time. And something that I think about a lot was when I was in college, I had this really wonderful professor, and I always knew I wanted to write. And I remember I came in and I said to him, like, but you need to talk to me about, like, how do I do this? And I want to be a published writer. And he was like, you're gonna. The first thing you're gonna do is stop thinking about publishing and you're gonna think about writing. It was such a simple thing to say, but I think I learned in that moment too. Like, we are. You got to give yourself time like it is. It is a time thing. And the right story, like, characters become different characters, and you have to tell different stories. So in the process of working on the first drafts of the last thing he told me, even when I started writing it, I put it aside and I wrote two books, two other books that have been published. And I came back to it. So some stories. Some stories take longer to find their way to the page than others. And the best piece of advice I would give to aspiring writers is what makes you a writer is that you're writing and that you're sitting down every day and you're doing the work and you're not worried about when you're gonna complete it. And that sounds like a luxury because, well, if you're trying to make a living, you know, you don't have all the time in the world, which is why I had all these other jobs, and I just sort of protected my writing time, but to be patient with yourself. So stories take time. And the other piece of advice I would give to aspiring writers is to get these two books and keep them on your desk at all times. One is On Writing by Stephen King, and the other is Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott. And go back to them. I still go back to them and find them inspiring. And they help me remember to have patience and grace with myself as I'm working.

A (13:18)

Those are the two books that authors always cite.

B (13:22)

You're kidding.

A (13:23)

Every. Every single author. So I feel like they're. I've actually not read either, and I'm going do that this year.

B (13:29)

They're really amazing. Stephen King's On Writing in particular, is just incredibly moving. And I think it's one thing he says, to hopefully not paraphrase him too badly, is your responsibility is to sit in a chair and try to do your work and get words out. You know, I think he does something crazy, like 10,000 words a day. Like, I've never been able to do that much. Sometimes when I'm doing, like, a writer's retreat somewhere like Ventana, I can get that many words done. But I do have a word count in which my work is not done until I hit that word count every day. I think it's important for forward motion, you know, to keep going.

A (14:06)

Do you ever rely on creative partners? Are there people that you call if you're stuck?

B (14:10)

I learned early on that when I show someone anything that's partially done, it almost releases me the responsibility of writing it, because I've already shared part of the story. So the best way I know to get to the end is to know that, like my core group of readers, like my husband, I have a couple of novelist friends of a couple of very good friends from forever who read everything. I don't get to show them until I've gotten to the end. So it keeps me in an honest conversation with the characters to find my way to the end.

A (14:40)

The first book of the series was a New York Times bestseller, an RBC pick. It was adapted into a show that Jennifer Garner starred in. What was it like writing a sequel when the first book was so adored? Is it a lot of pressure?

B (14:55)

I did feel pressure in a different way. The pressure I felt was I only wanted to write that sequel if I knew it was going to honor readers feelings about Hannah.

A (15:08)

Yeah.

B (15:08)

So I sat down and I wrote a hundred pages quietly before I even considered whether I was going to finish it. I was ready at any time to hit abort and not write that book. And this beautiful thing happened. Like, I think that, you know, eight books in. Some books are labors of love, and some books are really like love letters. And this was a love letter. I loved writing it. I knew my way to the end, whole cloth. And I sort of saw after those hundred pages, like, I remembered, like, if I'm writing a book that I want to read, I'm doing my job. And it was a book that I felt really, really proud of when I got to the end. And, you know, I do have to say that every time I go to Goodreads, which I know I'm not supposed to do, or, like, hear from a reader and they have felt, I keep getting. You know, I'm not patting myself on the back. I'm just saying, like, people keep saying it's better than the first, or I like it as much. I feel such a relief that I want to send that person a bouquet of flowers. Like, I'm so happy that that has been the response. That was the pressure. I felt like I wanted readers to feel like this was the perfect next chapter to Hannah's journey.

A (16:21)

How did you keep tabs on the world that you were building? Are you a sticky notes person? What's your process?

B (16:27)

So my process is going to make your head spin, I think, which is that because it was the sequel, every day that I was working on it, I had the last thing he told me with me and I would be rereading. So, like, I read the entire book, obviously, the last thing he told me many times. But to make sure it felt like a continuation. I cannot tell you how many times I have read part three of the last thing he told me while I was working on the first time I saw him. Like, and so I didn't have, like, stickies in a traditional sense, but I had Hannah's voice so deeply ingrained in my mind and in my heart that it felt like I could have continued it the next day, if that makes sense.

A (17:12)

That makes Total sense. And I think that's so smart. Before we go to a break, I have a quick question about what you said earlier. Do you think when you're a reader you can tell when an author has written a book as a love letter or a labor of love?

B (17:24)

I don't know. I think maybe there's this writer, Richard Bausch, he was a teacher of mine in graduate school and he said something once that feels akin to this, which is, and I'm not gonna curse, but he said if an a hole writes a book, you feel it when you're. I can't believe I just said that. Like my 8 year old son, 9 year old son now is sitting next to me. But you feel that's what comes out of the book. And I always think about that now if like I have like an icky feeling when I'm reading something like, oh, I wonder, I wonder how that feels. And if I have a really good feeling, like I want to reach out to the writer. You know, a book I really loved recently and I did sort of send a fan note to the writer was like the wedding people like you feel like, oh, that sense of, you know, oh, I love this. So I think maybe you can feel a love letter and maybe you can, maybe you can feel like this is someone who deeply loves these characters and is spending time loving them. And now I get to spend time reading that love.

A (18:23)

I just imagine an author getting a love note from Laura Dave. They must get so excited. That's really nice that you do that.

B (18:29)

You know, there's nothing like reading a book for me that I love so much. And I feel so grateful that I get to have that experience. And I also know how much it matters to me when a reader reaches out to me. It makes my whole day.

A (18:53)

Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. So it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress, get great recommendations for your next read or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple Co reeseapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple Co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. This episode is brought to you by Kleenex Lotion Tissues Cold season has a way of showing up like an unexpected plot twist right in the middle of big moments, good stories and days that are already full. That's why it helps to keep a little comfort close. Kleenex lotion tissues help protect, soothe and moisturize your skin, giving you the support you need right when you need it. Whether you're commuting, binge, listening to your favorite show, or managing a little family chaos, Kleenex lotion tissues are made with coconut oil and aloe vera. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex. I recently went on a big family trip, reuniting with cousins, aunts, uncles, people I hadn't seen in years, and we all got together in a warm place where the weather was perfect, the food was good, and all we had to do was reconnect. It was so much fun. We are already planning our next trip. Trips like that are truly unforgettable, and what makes it even better is staying at a place on Airbnb. Now, if you're planning any trips over winter, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And with Airbnb Co host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything, like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication, on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning extra cash, right? Find a co host@airbnb.com host Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton. Joggers or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak, a story that spans generations, forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything wrapped in a Hand stitched quilt. Each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton, the fabric of our lives. Learn more@thefabricofourlives.com I heard something absolutely wild about you, Laura.

B (22:34)

Uh oh.

A (22:35)

I read that you only know what's going to happen in the next 10 pages as you write.

B (22:41)

Correct. That is very, very true.

A (22:44)

I have never heard that.

B (22:45)

Yeah.

A (22:46)

From an author. I've heard authors say that they will like the character sort of drives the plot and so they will change things based on what that character will do.

B (22:55)

Yes.

A (22:55)

But only 10 pages. Do you let plot or do you let character drive it for you?

B (22:59)

It's really character, probably that's more of the driving force. And the 10 pages is really that, I know, sort of the next emotional transaction that's happening. So like for example, in the. In the first time I saw him, I knew that we were going to start with that prologue and that the next thing that was going to happen was going to be watching Owen's perspective as he leaves the design center. And I had this idea in my head that where that was going to take him was to sort of a woman that was being a little too friendly and he was going to say, I'm married, which I think happens like eight or nine pages later so that we as the reader would know. Even though it's been five years since he's even laid eyes on Hannah, he has remained completely and totally devoted to her. And so I knew that, but I didn't know anything else. I didn't know like what that. What the shape of that was going to look like. My husband always jokes with me because I say it all the time, that I write chapters that I think are shaped like eggs. Like it starts for me in this emotional place. And I know I got to the right end of that chapter. If the egg is completed and it's perfect circle, it's always like moving in sort of an interesting way. And so that's sort of how I write the whole book that way. Yeah.

A (24:13)

I want to ask you about the love story in this sequel. What kind of work went into making the relationship feel believable? Because we skip five years like you said, we start from Owen's perspective. And there's romantic love, there's long distance love, there's love that's anchored in faith and in loyalty.

B (24:38)

Yeah.

A (24:40)

How did you get this all to be a plot line that readers would buy into?

B (24:45)

I think for me, the central question here was about forgiveness for this book. The question for me was, what are we willing to do to be forgiven? And so, because that's how I was looking at was the most generous and empathetic way to view what. What Owen had done, what Nicholas had done, what Frank had done, all of these people, because I was entering into it, that they all wanted to be forgiven, that that's what they had in common. And I think when you start from a place of wanting forgiveness, faith and love naturally follow.

A (25:20)

I love that you start with a central question.

B (25:23)

Yeah, always. I don't know. I don't think I could write the way I write unless I did because I don't have the stickies and the poll plotting. I'm always moving toward that. And somewhere along, you know, two thirds of the way through the first draft, I'll answer the question for myself, and it's never the answer, I think. And that motivates me into the second draft.

A (25:46)

How do you think that Hannah and Bailey's dynamic evolves in the first time I saw him?

B (25:55)

I think they. They know each other so well at this point that they are truly, you know, ending that first book. When I finally figured out that that was the ending of the first book, I was like, oh, yes, of course. That is the primal story here. And then the beauty here is they're really mom and daughter, and sometimes they're bickering, and sometimes they have to give each other space. But the love and the trust, you get to see it realized. So one of the things I really wanted to do with that second book was give readers the opportunity to see what they longed for, what they told me they long for. I would never speak for anybody. To see that relationship realized, you get to see how that looks now between them.

A (26:39)

So people have, I think, read by this point. So I'm. I'm going to talk about something that's a little bit of a spoiler, but Hannah and Bailey's relationship really shifts. It moves from protector, child to a partnership forged by danger and trauma. I would say I'm not a parent, but I would imagine that that shift is a really complicated feeling. You're, like, proud of your child, surviving and thriving and evolving, and then you're grieving who they were.

B (27:11)

Yes.

A (27:12)

As a child.

B (27:13)

Absolutely.

A (27:14)

How did that dynamic pop into your mind? That's such an interesting shift that the.

B (27:19)

Nature of how I answered that question about forgiveness, which I answer about 2/3 of the way through the book, I knew that it was a story of Hannah and Owen reuniting. And in order for that to feel okay, I needed Bailey to be okay first, because that's Hannah's first concern, always is going to be Bailey. So I made the decision, I think, through that early writing, to really have her grow up into someone who can take care of herself. I think she earned it. You know, she earned it with how she responded in the face of the loss of her dad and how she responded by becoming this fully formed adult in the wake of that, that we got to see her now on her own, happy, thriving, surviving, able to be a real partner, and yet see, still count on her mother. You know, there's a line toward the end of the book in which she says the one thing she knows is that she doesn't have to worry about her mother, that her mother is going to do what needs to be done. And I always thought, I just want my kid to grow up and feel that way, to feel like the worry goes one way, it goes down toward them, and that you get to be this rock and this force for them. So she's still a child in that way that she looks at her mother with the. Those eyes, but she's a fully capable individual at the same time.

A (28:49)

That's interesting because as I was reading, I was thinking it must be kind of cathartic whether you relate to pieces of these characters or not, as a writer to, like, rewrite love stories or parent child dynamics. It's almost like you could rewrite your own experience. Did you insert that at all ever?

B (29:11)

I think you do it a little bit. You know, I don't know that I could understand Hannah and Bailey the way I tried to without my son. I thank him at the back of the book. He came with me. So as I said, I do a ton of research. And he came to the south of France and to Paris and to Florida and all of these places. As I was trying to move us toward the ending, I definitely think the way I, you know, feel being his mom and getting to be his mom had a huge influence. I don't know that that their story necessarily rewrites how I look at him, but his story influences how I look at them.

A (29:52)

That makes a lot of sense. Did you have any inspiration for the mother daughter relationship between Hannah and Bailey? Like, were there any famous people or dynamics that you looked at?

B (30:04)

In addition to our beautiful son, we have several godchildren who are of various ages. And some of the girls happen to be teens and in their 20s, and they're wonderful. And so I think they had A huge influence on how I thought about her.

A (30:21)

I think you also start to peel back the layers of Bailey's father, Owen, in the second book by writing chapters from his point of view.

B (30:28)

For sure.

A (30:30)

What was the choice behind jumping perspectives?

B (30:33)

So I had, in that first iteration of the last thing he told me, written so many chapters from Owen's perspective, and then I realized they didn't belong there, but. Whoa. So I had all of this context. None of that is in the second book, but the context for understanding him has been there forever. And I realized that didn't belong there but here, because the only way to make those five years work, the distance work. Going back to your question about how this love story could come together again, how this second chance could be earned, I felt like we really needed to know what he was doing. We really needed to understand him, to understand that Hannah's belief in him was absolutely correct.

A (31:21)

I agree. And I'm so excited to see how it changes the perspective of the TV show.

B (31:26)

Yes. Yes.

A (31:27)

Have you seen what it'll do to the show?

B (31:29)

Yes. I think the show is, you know, a beautiful companion to the book there. Definitely. It is relentless. It is so thrilling the way that the show works the second season. I always say, if you can be lucky enough to have Jennifer Garner star in your show, you're. You've hit the jackpot. I mean, everyone's wonderful. Judy Greer plays Quinn in the second season. She's extraordinary. And Gary Rice is always extraordinary. So I think they did a beautiful job. And I think that the central question of both the book and the show is similar.

A (32:06)

Yeah.

B (32:06)

What are we willing to do for forgiveness? What will we do for that second chance? And I. I just loved watching how they. How they answer that question.

A (32:15)

I love that you mentioned Angari Rice and Judy Greer because they were both on the podcast. They're both huge. They love the written work. Did you talk about books behind the scenes? Was there reading on set at all?

B (32:27)

I wasn't on set as much this time as last time, but within Gowrie, we often talk about books. And she has a wonderful book, as you guys know, and was a Reese Book Club pick, and she loves to read. So she and I have definitely chatted about books and, you know, and Jennifer Garner loves reading, so there's been a lot of book talk around this. Wonderful.

A (32:49)

That's so fun. I love to hear that.

B (32:51)

Yeah.

A (32:51)

You know, last time we spoke, you shared that Gloria Steinem quote that is so beautiful that it's about watching women become the heroes of their own lives. And I was reading, thinking about that quote with that quote in the back of my mind. How do you think Hannah and Bailey are each other's heroes?

B (33:10)

Oh, I think that gave me the chills because I think that's actually the central, not even theme, but the central feeling of the book, which is that you have a woman who never got to be mothered figuring out how to be a mother to a child who never had a mother and didn't know how to be mothered. So they really were the key to each other's lock in so many ways. And yet also, you know, I think the great glory of becoming a parent, however, that road sends you there. Some of us become parents to friends or to fur babies or to, you know, kids. We had nothing to do with birthing. But I think the central thing about it is when you learn, you don't just love this person, but you like this person so much. And there's a heroism in that, in the way that someone can. You get to see the world through their eyes. You get to like it through their eyes. You get to think, my favorite person is also this person that I get to take care of. There's just so much beauty around that. And they just trust each other. And in that way, these two people who didn't really know how to trust anyone except for Owen also end up with trusting each other.

A (34:39)

Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to, or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress, get great recommendations for your next read, or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple Co Rees AppleBooks to find out more. That's Apple Co ReeseAppleBooks and read or listen to Reese's current pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. This episode is brought to you by Kleenex Lotion Tissues. Cold season has a way of showing up like an unexpected plot twist right in the middle of big moments, good stories and days that are already full. That's why it helps to keep a little comfort close. Kleenex Lotion tissues help protect, soothe and moisturize your skin, giving you the support you need right when you need it. Whether you're commuting, binge, listening to your favorite show, or managing a little family chaos. Kleenex lotion tissues are made with coconut oil and aloe. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex. I recently went on a big family trip, reuniting with cousins, aunts, uncles, people I hadn't seen in years. And we all got together in a warm place where the weather was perfect, the food was good, and all we had to do was reconnect. It was so much fun. We're already planning our next trip. Trips like that are truly unforgettable, and what makes it even better is staying at a place on Airbnb. Now if you're planning any trips over winter, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And with Airbnb Co Host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning extra cash, right? Find a co host@airbnb.com host Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton. Joggers or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak. A story that spans generations, Forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything, wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more@thefabricofourlives.com do you think that there's a moment that you could point to from the first time I saw him that showcases Hannah stepping into her own power?

B (38:24)

The very first chapter with her, you see that she has not been for even one second at the mercy of what might happen. She has planned everything for every occurrence in order to do the primary thing of keeping Bailey safe. And the very first moment of the book, you see that spring into action with her and with what she set up Bailey to do. So her heroism is. Is the central point of all of all of this. She is so strong. I always say. People always say, are you like Hannah? And I always say, I wish I was that strong. I wish I could run that fast. She really. She will never be at someone's mercy.

A (39:05)

When I was in college, my friend Julia and I had this quote from the wizard of Oz on the back of our phones. And we cite it to this day. It's so simple. But it's from Glinda the Good Witch. And she says, you had the power all along, my dear.

B (39:19)

Oh, I love that.

A (39:21)

I love it. And I think it's such a good reminder that it's always inside of us. I'm going to ask you a little bit of a. Of a corny question, but I am curious. Where does your power come from?

B (39:35)

For me, I've always understood the world via relationship and how to figure out how to show up for others. I think whatever power I have comes from my empathy toward everyone else. Trying to hold on to that empathy. I don't know if you know about Enneagram.

A (39:53)

Yeah. What are you?

B (39:54)

I'm a two. I'm like the ultimate caretaker. The wanting and understanding that about myself as a grownup, it sort of unlocked a lot for me because I think I learned I have to work at being as gentle with myself as I am with others. Lifelong mission. We all have different ones, but I look at that as a power now that I'm always going to enter into interaction as a writer, particularly with how can I be as generous and thoughtful as possible for everyone around me? And I hope that with my writing that shines and never having anyone be all bad and really understanding that even bad, even bad decisions happen a little bit at a time, we can always pull back. We can always find our way back to our truer selves, our more authentic self, our clients kinder self. Even the worst characters in this book who did the most terrible things, I think they're. They're finding their way back to that too.

A (40:53)

I'm going to be bookmarking that notion. Thank you for that. I'm curious what you have bookmarked this week. It could be a fun quote, something you've Sent to your best friend. Something you've giggled about with your husband. What have you bookmarked this week?

B (41:09)

We just got in ice cream maker, which sounds like, you know. And we've been now at night, every night, we sort of like make a different kind of ice cream or frozen yogurt. And it's a way to get my son to go with me to the farmer's market and pick fresh fruit to put in there and other things. And I have found it very soothing as a very soothing evening activity. And I highly recommend it for. You know, we're all trying to stay a little bit off screens and that is. That is a lovely thing. Also, something else I've bookmarked this week is this is like the time of year where I try to do all my. My rereads of my favorite books. Oh, yeah. So there's nothing better than looking through your library and picking the books you love most and pulling them down and spending some time.

A (41:57)

Laura, I love this so much because everybody wants an ice cream maker and then they get one and they never use it. And the fact that you are using to the max is so fun for me to hear.

B (42:07)

I mean, that's the thing. Like, that's like. I think my husband really wanted to get it and I think he was like, oh, I'm gonna use that thing.

A (42:14)

Yes. That's not staying in the pantry. Okay. Laura. Dave, I wanna do speed read with you. I have a feeling you're going to be excellent at this. It's where we put 60 seconds on the clock and see how many rapid fire literary questions you can get through.

B (42:29)

Okay, I'm ready. I love a speed ready.

A (42:31)

I know. Also, your references are so vast. You're gonna kill this. Okay, what's your favorite book on the art or the act of writing?

B (42:38)

On Writing by Stephen King.

A (42:40)

Your favorite fictional twist.

B (42:42)

Oh, my God. Okay, okay, okay. I really love the twist at the end of the Silent Patient. I really. Okay, I have an answer. I really love this twist at the end of Defending Jacob. That's one of my favorite twists.

A (42:53)

That's such a good one. Okay, what's your favorite fictional mother daughter duo?

B (42:57)

There's a story in in the Land of Men by Antonia Nelson. And there's a mother daughter that I. That I love.

A (43:04)

What's a book that you'd wish you'd written?

B (43:06)

Heartburn by Nora Ephron.

A (43:08)

What book do you wish you could read again for the first time?

B (43:11)

Pride and Prejudice.

A (43:12)

Who is your desert island author? Who are you reading for the rest.

B (43:15)

Of Your life, Nora Ephron.

A (43:16)

If you could live vicariously through one fictional character, who would it be?

B (43:20)

Maybe Daisy Buchanan.

A (43:22)

What's the last book that you stayed up all night to finish?

B (43:25)

London Falling, which is coming out this spring. It's amazing.

A (43:30)

What's a book that shaped the way you see the world?

B (43:33)

Slouching toward Bethlehem by Joan Didion.

A (43:35)

If you had a memoir, what would be the title?

B (43:38)

Probably that's a great question. Would be the title, because I say it all the time.

A (43:42)

And you love questions.

B (43:43)

I love questions, yeah.

A (43:45)

They drive your writing. That's amazing.

B (43:47)

They drive my writing. They drive everything. I'm always looking for a question more than a. An answer.

A (43:52)

Me, too. You know, actually, I was watching two philosophers talk, and they said that the point is never to find the answer, that it's all about the discussion, which I loved.

B (44:03)

Oh, I love that.

A (44:04)

Laura Dave, you are so phenomenal and so fun and so smart, and I don't say those things flippantly. You're so special. Thank you for sharing so much time with us.

B (44:14)

Thank you. This was. This was absolutely joyful.

A (44:21)

Okay, friends, before you go, it's that time of the month when we're counting down to the big announcement, the February Reese's Book Club pick, and I already can't wait. And I'm excited to share that our partners at Apple Books are once again offering a free book drop where they are giving away up to 1,000 ebooks of the current pick. They did this with Laura Dave's the First Time I Saw him in January and the Heir Apparent by Rebecca Armitage in December. And they're doing it again on Tuesday, February 3rd, the day that Reese Witherspoon announces the lucky author and book for February. Any guesses? I actually have a fun little game that might give the keen readers out there a little advanced hint. It's called Two Clues and a Lie. I'm going to share three phrases with you. Two of them are deeply connected to the book and one purely a distraction. Okay, here we go. The first phrase is, rome wasn't built in a day. The second is, seek treatment. The third and final is, catch flights, not feelings. So which one of those things does not belong? And do the two clues remaining tip you off to the February pick? I truly have no idea, but if you have a guess, let me know. Leave me a voice memo at 501-291-3379. We'll only be releasing clues here on the podcast moving forward, so make sure to tune back in for more future hints. Okay? Here's one more it was included in Apple Books Most anticipated books of 2026, which you can check out at Apple Co 2026 books. If you want to be among the 1000 people people to get a code and redeem a free ebook, all you have to do is follow Apple Books at Apple Books and Reese's Book Club at Reese's Book Club on Instagram to get notified about next month's free book drop. And if you want a little bit more from us, come hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's Book Club on Instagram serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes magic. And I'm Danielle Robay, R O B A Y Come say hi and DM me. And if you want to go 90s on us, call us. Okay, our phone line is open so call now at 1-501-291-3379. That's 1-501291-3379. Share your literary hot takes, book recommendations, book questions about the monthly pick or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode. So don't be shy, give us a ring. And of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your shows. Until then, see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of hello Sunshine and and iHeart podcast. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me, Danielle Robay. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Foley, Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schlied and Darby Masters. Our Production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter are the Executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for how hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla and Ashley Rapaport are associate producers for Reese's Book Club, Ally Perry and Lauren Hanson are the executive producers for iHeart podcasts and Tim Palazzola is our showrunner. Apple Books is the best way to read or listen to the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone and a heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club so you can discover every exciting pick plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set and track your reading goals and get great recommendations for your next read or listen again. No subscription required visit Apple Co Reese that's R E E S E Applebooks to find out more. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort, and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more@thefabricofourlives.com this episode is brought to you by Kleenex Lotion Tissues Cold season has a way of showing up like an unexpected plot twist right in the middle of big moments, good stories and days that are already full. That's why it helps to keep a little comfort close. Kleenex lotion tissues help protect, soothe, and moisturize your skin, giving you the support you need right when you need it. Whether you're commuting, binge, listening to your favorite show, or managing a little family chaos, Kleenex lotion tissues are made with coconut oil and aloe. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

B (50:00)

Whether it is getting swatted or just hateful messages online, there is a lot of harm in even just reading the comments. That's cybersecurity expert Camille Stewart Gloster on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Every season is a chance to grow, and the Therapy for Black Girls podcast is here to walk with you. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, and each week we dive into real conversations that help you move with more clarity and confidence. This episode, we're breaking down what really happens to your information online and how to protect yourself with intention. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

A (50:39)

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.