Hayley Kiyoko’s Love Story Gets a Queer Victorian Remix

Summary

Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club

Episode: Hayley Kiyoko’s Love Story Gets a Queer Victorian Remix

Date: November 4, 2025
Host: Danielle Robay
Guests: Charlotte McConaughey and Hayley Kiyoko

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Episode Overview

In this vibrant episode, journalist Danielle Robay hosts a double feature:

1. An interview with Charlotte McConaughey about her gothic eco-thriller and Reese’s Book Club pick, Wild Dark Shore.
2. A deep dive with singer, actress, and author Hayley Kiyoko, whose new novel Where There’s Room For Us artfully blends queer romance and Victorian flair—with a splash of autobiographical inspiration.

The episode explores literary optimism amid dark subjects, reimagining classic genres with queer perspectives, catharsis in art, and the importance of joyful, authentic representation.

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1. Wild Dark Shore with Charlotte McConaughey

[03:56 – 15:17]

Book Introduction & Themes

• McConaughey’s Wild Dark Shore is a “romantic gothic mystery” and “an eco-thriller” centered on a father and his children on a storm-battered island, upended by the arrival of a mysterious woman ([04:20]).

• Themes include love, loss, ecological crisis, and the fear of raising children in a collapsing world.

  “It is about how far we go for the people we love.” – Charlotte McConaughey ([04:20])

Literary Craft & Notable Moments

• McConaughey is proud of the ending, describing it as “contentious” but true to the story ([05:12]).

• Danielle requests a reading, leading to a raw passage on paternal guilt:

  “Most likely. I don’t know why, but it may also be because for one brief moment long ago, I wished him dead.” – Charlotte McConaughey reading Dominic Salt ([06:40])

  McConaughey explains this reveals Dominic’s core conflict and how he’s shaped by grief and trauma after his wife’s death ([06:56]).

Literary Motivation & Audience

• McConaughey says she writes “to make sense of something within yourself”—in this case, her own transition into motherhood and fears about the world her children will inherit ([08:28]).

• The book is “a love letter” to her children and an act of hope:

  “To sit down and put pen to paper, trying to make something beautiful out of this chaos… is an act of defiance and hope, even when I didn’t feel that way.” ([10:08])

Community Engagement & Endings

• Listeners are invited to share their favorite “seed story” from the novel, and McConaughey is keen to hear reactions to the ending ([11:43]).

• On endings, McConaughey is a believer in “the right ending for each book,” not necessarily a happy one:

  “I certainly don’t think they all need to be happy. But we do need some sense that, like, it wasn’t just totally for nothing and that this is the most depressing thing ever.” ([13:12])

Becoming a Reese’s Book Club Pick

• McConaughey recounts telling her partner first, joking, “We always used to joke about one day Reese would come knocking… and so, of course, I had to run and tell him this” ([13:49]).
• Danielle notes the supportive “sisterhood” among club authors ([15:01]), with McConaughey delighted: “That is not something I expected. So I’m very happy and excited to hear that.” ([15:02])

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2. Hayley Kiyoko’s Queer Victorian Romantasy

[22:12 – 68:03]

Queer Literary Icon & Nickname Origins

• Hayley Kiyoko, introduced as “Lesbian Jesus,” shares the quirky story behind the fan-bestowed moniker:

  “I always wanted to have a nickname growing up… it feels like it’s healing my inner child having, like, a nickname, even if it is Lesbian Jesus.” ([23:49])

New Book: Where There’s Room For Us

• Kiyoko’s sophomore novel is a “queer romantasy” set in the Victorian era—loosely inspired by her own love story with fiancé Becca Tilly ([22:52]).
• The story follows Ivy, a wild American poet, and Freya, a British aristocrat bound by family duty—mirroring Kiyoko and Tilly’s real-life backgrounds.

Why Victorian?

• Kiyoko was drawn to period romance (think Pride and Prejudice, Bridgerton) but wanted to “queer the narrative.”

• She acknowledges that as an Asian, queer woman, she wouldn’t “thrive” in true Victorian society, so she creates a “queer hyper-reality”:

  “I don’t know if I can have a hopeful ending… so that’s when I was like, maybe it’s a queer hyper reality. What does a world look like if you could be queer in the 1800s, freely?” ([29:34])

Inspiration & Real-Life Roots

• Kiyoko recounts meeting her partner Becca at her album release party; a “meet cute” involving Becca’s younger sister inspired the romantic setup for her novel ([27:51]).
• She’s excited to embed real moments within her fictional world, asking: would falling in love still be hard even in a reimagined, more accepting historical setting?

Writing Process & Creative Catharsis

• Kiyoko contrasts songwriting (concise, emotional) and novel writing (expansive, immersive):

  “When you’re writing a song… how do I tell my story with the most minimal amounts of words… But when you’re writing a book, you could talk about someone’s jacket for like three pages.” ([38:39])

• Writing novels gives her new freedom, moving beyond strict creative parameters of directing/music videos to world-building without limits.

• Storytelling, for Kiyoko, is about “healing the part where you feel like you don’t belong”—creating art that fills that “hole in your heart” ([42:19]).

Representation & Queer Joy

• Kiyoko finds power and emotion in being herself authentically:

  “Being yourself is the most powerful thing you can do. … So many people in this world do not believe that they can be themselves and thrive.” ([54:45])

• Joy for her means simple pleasures—friends, being present, cooking. She emphasizes refueling for queer and marginalized people as a radical act ([57:20]).

• She hopes her work creates “hopeful narratives and expands queer representation,” and wants to “ignite hope” for others ([57:53]).

Style, Identity, & Self-Discovery

• Kiyoko laughs about her many “eras”—pop star, director, novelist, style icon—and how she’s embracing her real self more as she matures:

  “Every year you’re stripping away… You hit a point where you almost do like a full circle… I’m kind of going back to who I have always been.” ([54:45])

Real Love & Artistic Growth

• On her relationship with Becca: “the love that Becca and I have has gone beyond what I thought love was,” noting the strength that comes from facing differences head-on ([61:44]).
• Writing about a healed, authentic love is a new chapter; past work often centered on “toxic relationships and situationships” ([64:13]).

Easter Eggs & Fun Elements

• The novel contains Easter eggs for fans—character and horse names (“Citrine”), references to song titles, and details from real life ([65:01]).

Book Recommendations & Literary Speed Round

(Speed Read: [65:39])

• Trope to ban: “Queer trauma in general, or like the gay best friend that’s one dimensional.” ([66:12])
• Trope to defend: “Falling in love with an emotionally unavailable person.” ([66:24])
• Book she wishes she’d written: Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo ([66:34])
• Favorite recommendation: The Creative Act by Rick Rubin ([66:44])
• Best unread book: Pachinko by Min Jin Lee ([66:57])
• Memoir narrator: “Sandra Bullock.” ([67:09])
• Book that shaped her worldview: The Four Agreements ([67:17])

Notable Quotes & Insightful Moments

• “It’s revolutionary to be yourself.” – Hailey Kiyoko ([56:03])
• “My dream is to create hopeful narratives and expand queer representation through music, films and novels for the rest of my life.” ([57:53])
• “If it resonates with me, it will resonate with others.” ([43:08])
• “Women and warm tones.” (On what connects all her artwork) ([59:16])

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Key Timestamps

• Wild Dark Shore & Charlotte McConaughey

  • [03:56] Book Club pick intro with Charlotte McConaughey
  • [05:56] Reading a critical passage
  • [08:28] Why she wrote the book
  • [11:43] Questions for the audience
  • [13:49] Sharing her Reese’s Book Club moment

• Hayley Kiyoko Interview

  • [22:12] Introduction to Kiyoko and her new novel
  • [23:49] Origins of “Lesbian Jesus”
  • [25:23] Why Victorian era as queer setting
  • [27:51] Retelling her meet cute with Becca
  • [29:34] Hyper-reality and queering history
  • [37:29] Writing as therapy and expansive world-building
  • [54:45] The power and struggle of being oneself
  • [57:20] What Queer Joy looks like now
  • [61:30] How love with Becca is healing
  • [65:01] Hidden Easter eggs in her book
  • [65:39] Speed read book round
  • [68:03] Sign-off

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Episode Tone

Warm, conversational, and inclusive—balancing literary passion with personal vulnerability and humor. Both guests are candid about their fears, hopes, and the desire to create worlds that not only reflect their truths but also offer hope and joy to others, especially those often omitted from traditional narratives.

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For Listeners

This episode is a compelling listen for anyone who:

• Loves bookish deep-dives and author insights
• Is interested in queer, diverse, and hopeful storytelling
• Wants tips on writing, creativity, and navigating vulnerability
• Enjoys real-life love stories and their literary reinterpretations
• Needs a dose of self-love, encouragement, and intentional joy

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Memorable Ending (Hayley Kiyoko, [68:03]):

“Trust the three guides inside of you: your intuition, your nervous system, and your values. When in doubt, close your eyes and feel your truth.” (Quoting Young Pueblo)

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Transcript

[Danielle Robay]

This is an I Heart podcast. One thing I love about reading books is that books take us to places that feel real, and on TikTok, that feeling is multiplied by millions. It's where readers fall in love with new worlds, discuss plot twists, and share the books that make them laugh, cry, or heal. On TikTok, stories become conversations and conversations turn into community, all in a place that's welcoming and inclusive every day. TikTok's community isn't just celebrating stories, it's shaping them, driving new trends and inspiring readers everywhere.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

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[Danielle Robay]

So time with our pets is extra precious.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

That's why we started Dutch.

[Danielle Robay]

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[Hailey Kiyoko]

Our vets can even prescribe medication for.

[Danielle Robay]

Many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Mind when it comes to their vet care.

[Danielle Robay]

Hey, I'm Kyle McLaughlin. You might know me as that guy from Twin Peaks, Sex and the City, or just the Internet Stand. I have a new podcast called what Are We Even Doing? Where I embark on a noble quest to understand the brilliant chaos of Universal. Each week I invite someone fascinating to join me to talk about navigating this high speed rollercoaster we call reality. Join me and my delightful guests every Thursday and let's get weird together in a good way. Listen to what Are We Even doing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Nora Jones and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing along is Back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Levy, Rufus Wainwright, Mavis Staples. Really too many to name. And there's still so much more to come in this new season. Listen to Norah Jones is playing along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Cats are masters at using up their nine lives, like chasing laser pointers into walls or jumping onto high shelves. But the one thing cats never do? Text while driving. So be like a cat and protect your one and only life. Don't text and drive.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Don't drive distracted.

[Danielle Robay]

A message brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Project Yellow Light and the Ad Council bookmarked by Reese's Book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi, I'm Danielle Robe. Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. We have two great conversations this week. In a little bit, we're talking to Hailey Kiyoko, singer, songwriter, actor, and author. Her new book, where there's Room for Us is a queer romantasy for the ages. And it may or may not have some real life inspiration. But before we jump in, it's the first Tuesday of the month. You know what that means. It's time to reveal the newest Reese's Book Club pick. Reese. Take it away.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Hi, bookmarked listeners.

[Danielle Robay]

Hi, Danielle. I'm so excited to share that our November Reese's Book Club pick is Wild Dark shore by Charlotte McConaughey.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Read along with us.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, it's your turn to jump in. So grab Wild Dark Shore and read with us all month long. And as you go, I need you to email me voice memos with your thoughts, your questions, your hot takes. Because at the end of the month, we're going to sit down with Charlotte again and dig into all the juicy details and I want to play her your questions.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Okay?

[Danielle Robay]

Ms. Charlotte, welcome to the club.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Thank you.

[Danielle Robay]

I owe you a big congratulations. Your book Wild Dark Shore is the November Reese's Book Club pick. So for those of us picking up your book for the very first time, if you, Charlotte, had the opportunity to hand a future reader this book, walking onto a plane or after a breakup or looking to start over in some way, what would you say?

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Oh, okay. I would say be ready for a bit of a gut punch. This is the story of a father raising his three children on a very remote and stormy island. They're the last inhabitants until the night of a particularly bad storm washes a woman onto their shore and she's going to change their lives forever. It's a romantic gothic mystery and it's an eco thriller. And it is about how far we go for the people we love.

[Danielle Robay]

Mm. I really love that. Charlotte. I have to tell you and everybody listening that it pulls you in right away. And it's very high stakes. It's very emotional. Is there a scene or a moment that you're especially proud of writing?

[Charlotte McConaughey]

I don't wanna give any spoilers, but I'm proud of the ending. And the ending is a bit contentious. You know, a lot of feedback from people who either love it or they're kind of annoyed with me, but I'm very proud of it. And then there's lots of kind of scenes throughout that I Feel, you know, sometimes you just feel like you kind of nailed that moment or you found a way to really, I guess, get to the heart of what you're trying to say. And then there's other scenes where you feel like you didn't and you've got to kind of go back and rework them. But it's always fun when you get it on the first try.

[Danielle Robay]

One of the moments that you feel like you got to the heart of it. Would you be willing to read a paragraph or two for us?

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Yes, I can. Obviously, I'm not going to read the ending, but. No, I will read. This is just a tiny moment, which is the first scene that we get. We are introduced to Dominic Salt, who's the father on this island. You are not meant to have favorites, but my youngest is that, if only by hair and with a gun to my head, if I really, really had to answer. And not because we're most alike, that is, my oldest and me. Not because we are least alike, that is my daughter and me. Maybe it's because he's curious and kind and so smart it can make your eyes water. Maybe it's because he whispers to the wind and hears its voice in return. Most likely. I don't know why, but it may also be because for one brief moment long ago, I wished him dead.

[Danielle Robay]

Wow.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

So that's like quite an intense thing to say about your child. And it kind of sums up Dominic and his struggle and his conflict.

[Danielle Robay]

Why did you read that moment? What do you like about it as.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

A sort of opening paragraph to someone, to a character? I think it kind of lets you in to quite a deep. A deep kind of core of conflict that Dom has about himself and his relationship with his children. He's an extraordinary father. He sort of only exists as a father in a way. Now that his wife has passed away, he's raising these three children alone. It's like he's been. Become this one part of himself and nothing else. And there is a crux of grief and trauma there that. That sort of forms this relationship he has and this conflict he has around. Around that moment when he sort of wished his child wasn't there really, I think, fuels this sort of guilt and grief and shame. And it's something that he has to work really hard throughout the course of the book to shed himself of. So I think, you know, as just an opening paragraph, it just gives us this. This little hint of an insight into this. This inner turmoil that he's feeling.

[Danielle Robay]

It's also interesting because we don't see fathers portrayed that way. Very often we see mothers who are overtaken by parenthood. So I find it interesting that you, you chose a father to, like, deliver this information. Who did you write this book for, Charlotte?

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Very good question. I've never been asked that before. There's always a component where it's for yourself because it's something that you're trying to understand or grapple with or make sense of within yourself. You know, this is a book about fear, specifically the fear of raising children in a collapsing world, in a world that's ravaged by ecological crisis, and our responsibilities around having children. And to our children, you know, how do we talk to them about this? What does love mean in the face of loss? All these big questions I was really grappling with as I had, you know, this book came to me at the same time as I had my children. And so there's a part of it that is that it's. It's for myself in terms of trying to understand this new role of motherhood and what's happening in the world. But it's also, it's absolutely for my children. It is a love letter to them, you know, that I hope they will read one day and know that this was a cry out and it was a way of me just not giving up this fight and being able to sort of say to them one day, like, I didn't give up. This is for you.

[Danielle Robay]

You know, I just heard Zadie Smith last night in an interview say that the actual act of writing is optimistic. The action means that you're trying for something. So even though you're tackling a really sometimes dark and intense subject matter, your writing is optimistic. Is that what it felt like when you were writing it?

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Yeah, it's always that sort of. Especially when you're writing about this subject matter. You are constantly kind of walking that line between optimism and pessimism. Your, you know, day to day, I, I feel like that I'm kind of. I'm not never quite sure which way I'm going to go, but the act of sitting down and putting pen to paper, trying to make sense of it, trying to make something beautiful out of this chaos, trying to find the little glimpse of love and light within this sort of big duck maelstrom is. It is. It's an act of defiance and hope, you know, even when I didn't feel that way. It's like you have to become that in order to make something that's worthwhile.

[Danielle Robay]

Mm. Well said. I want our readers this month to Let their imagination run wild while they're reading your book. I think there's so much to picture, not just the characters, but the landscapes that you paint. And I can't help but cast. When I read books nowadays. I know you have a film and screenwriting background, so I'm really wanting to know your thoughts, which I know we'll save for the end of the month. But for all of you club members, please send us your casting choices because we may play your voicemail at the end of the month when we get back to check in with Charlotte. Are there any questions that you have for listeners that you're dying to know?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Maybe.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Their favorite seed story? I love hearing that. There's always. It's funny. There's a lot of these kind of little moments. Orly, the youngest child, throughout the book, he sort of, I guess, brings this new woman into their lives and kind of seduces her into their world by telling her the stories of seeds. And everyone I know has a different favorite. So I'd love to kind of hear which one most, you know, excited you or moved you. And I'd love to know what you think of the ending, you know, whether it's infuriating or just right.

[Danielle Robay]

You know, Charlotte, I actually think that most of my favorite books have frustrating endings because I didn't expect them. Do you have an opinion on happy endings? Are you a person who believes in happy endings, who likes to write them, who wants to write the unexpected? What do you think?

[Charlotte McConaughey]

I think every book has an ending that is right for that book. And not all books are right to have a happy ending. Some need them, absolutely need them. Some books need something that is perhaps more nuanced or that gets to the heart of what the book is actually trying to say. So for me, the ending of this book is kind of bittersweet. I don't. I'm not going to say too much.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

About it, of course, but.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

I think it's, you know, it's genre specific, it's character specific, it's story specific, what the ending needs to be. And I certainly don't think they all need to be happy. But we do need some sense that, like, it wasn't just totally for nothing and that this is the most depressing thing ever.

[Danielle Robay]

Thank you for that. I think everybody's going to be happy to hear that as they dive into the book this month. My last question for you before we check back in with you at the end of the month is, who was your first call when you found out you were Reese's Book club pick. I.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Well, I ran. I think I ran to tell my partner, and he was funny because we always used to joke. We always used to joke about one day Reese would come knocking and read my book, and we would just laugh because it was so silly. And so, of course, I had to run and tell him this, and we were both just like, oh, my God.

[Danielle Robay]

Do you feel like you manifested that?

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Yeah. Maybe.

[Danielle Robay]

You, like, kind of ironically manifested it. Yeah.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

I think we did. I think we totally brought that into being some crazy way. And then. Yeah, just like my mom, my friends, everyone.

[Danielle Robay]

It's so fun, Charlotte. I got to host a Reese's Book Club party right before Shine Away, which is hello Sunshine's annual event. And so many of the Reese's Book Club authors were there, and it's really like this sorority and club. They all have a group chat. They're so supportive of one another. So I just. I'm so excited for you because I feel like, whether you know it or not, yet, you have, like, a whole new sisterhood ahead of you.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Oh, wow.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

That is not something I expected. So I'm very happy and excited to hear that.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, it actually gives me chills when I think about it. I know it's corny, but it's really special. So huge congratulations, and I can't wait to talk to you at the end of the month.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Thank you so much, Danielle. Really lovely to chat.

[Danielle Robay]

Every reader knows the feeling, that spark when you open a book and suddenly hours disappear. The way a story can pull you in so deeply, it feels like it was written just for you. On TikTok, that spark doesn't stay contained. It spreads. A single quote can inspire millions. A passionate review can send readers racing to the shelves, and a quiet recommendation can grow into the next big cultural moment. Here, genres collide, and new favorites emerge. Romances, thrillers, fantasies, and memoirs, all shared with the kind of honesty that makes discovery personal. Because on TikTok, books aren't just read. They're lived, discussed, celebrated, and passed along to the next person who needs them. It's more than reviews. It's connection. It's belonging. It's a global book club, always open, always growing. The TikTok book community is where the next story finds you. And the conversation never ends at just roll. They believe the kitchen is where joy lives with their refrigerated dough. There's no fussy proofing, no hours of waiting. Just big smells, big smiles, and that first irresistible, flaky bite. They do the hard part so you could skip straight to the fun. Just Roll Puff pastry is made with non GMO high quality ingredients ready to roll with parchment paper straight from the fridge. No thawing, no stress, just golden bakery worthy layers every single time. With Just Roll every bake is simple. From savory show stopping appetizers to sweet dessert masterpieces, this is a fresh way to bake. Familiar but better find Just Roll Puff pastry in the refrigerated section of your grocery store or visit justroll.com to find a store near you. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of Heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

How can a 101 woman fall in love again?

[Danielle Robay]

And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. And he got down.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

And I remember feeling kind of a.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Surge of like, okay, this is power.

[Danielle Robay]

Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother tried to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look people in the eye, not always hide behind a microphone. Microphone. Listen to heavyweight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

You know the shade is always shadiest right here. Season six of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Gisele Bryant and Robyn Dixon is.

[Danielle Robay]

Here dropping every Monday as two of.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

The founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac.

[Danielle Robay]

We're giving you all the laughs, drama and reality news you can handle.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

And you know, we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us Each and every Monday, I was going through a walk in my neighborhood. Out of the blue, I see this huge sign next to somebody's house. Okay, the sign says, my neighbor is a Karen. No way. I died laughing. I'm like, I have to know. You are lying.

[Danielle Robay]

Humongous, y'.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

All.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

They had some time on their hands. Listen to Reasonably Shady from the Black.

[Danielle Robay]

Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Poynter, chair of Women's health and Gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. 100% of women go through menopause it can be such a struggle for our quality of life. But even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one, they have dementia and the other one is do I have adhd? There is unprecedented promise with regard to.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Have less pain, to have better mood.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

And also to have better day to day life.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening.

[Danielle Robay]

Welcome back to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. All right, let's travel from our climate future to our Victorian past. Or at least Hayley Kiyoko's version of it. You probably know Hailey from her Disney Channel days, her music, or as a boundary breaking queer icon. Literal icon. But today we're diving into her world as an author. Her debut novel, Girls Like Girls became a New York Times bestseller inspired by her hit song and music video of the same name. And now she's back with a brand new novel. Okay. It's called Where There's Room for Us and it is out today. It's set in the Victorian era and it follows Ivy, an American poet with a bit of a Playgirl reputation. It also follows Freya, a British aristocrat torn between her family's expectations and an undeniable pull towards Ivy. Does any of this sound familiar? Okay, I'm just going to give you the tea because we're all friends here. Hailey shared that the couple at the center of the story, Ivy and Freya, was really inspired by her and her real life girlfriend, now fiance, Becca Tilly. And if there's any bachelor fans out there, you know Becca Tilly. One of the many things Hailey does well is make creative reinvention look effortless. But we all know nobody's life is effortless. And Haley's path has been anything but simple. Hers is a story of risk and reinvention and radical imagination forged at a time when few blueprints existed. She has truly built a world on her own terms, and it's been fueled by a lot of self trust, queer joy, and the belief that rules are meant to be rewritten. So if you want to hear about what it really takes to create the life and the art that you want to see in the world, you're in the right place. Let's turn the page with Hayley Kiyoko Hailey. Lesbian Jesus.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Welcome to Bookmarked thank you so much for having me, Danielle. I'm so happy to be here.

[Danielle Robay]

No, I'm so happy to have you here. All of the producers are so happy to have you here. You have a lot of fans in the house. I kind of feel like I'm in the presence of queer pop divinity. So thank you for blessing us.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Thank you so much. I breathe rainbow. It just shoots out. You can't see it, but you can hear it.

[Danielle Robay]

So while I do feel like we are not worthy, we are very excited. How did Lesbian Jesus come about?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

You know, it was really funny. I was on tour in 2018. It was my debut album, Expectations, and I would do all these Q and A's and meet and greets before the shows, and people would just start calling me Lesbian Jesus. And I. I thought it was like. I felt like I was out of the loop, like, as a millennial. So I was like, oh, people are calling people Lesbian Jesus. Like, this is a thing that I need to, like, catch on to. And then I remember, like, going online and then being with one of my friends and being like, no, like, they call you Lesbian Jesus. You don't just call everyone Lesbian Jesus. And I was like, what? So it was. It was kind of cute because I always wanted to have a nickname growing up, and my name is just Hailey, and that's just what people called me. And I never excelled in sports where I had, like, a cool nickname. And so it feels like it's healing my inner child having, like, a nickname, even if it is Lesbian Jesus.

[Danielle Robay]

You're such a writer through and through. I was going over your catalog of work, and you write songs, you write comics, you write films, and this is just your latest piece of prose. It's a book called Where There's Room for Us. And I love that it's set in the Victorian era. And we're going to talk all about the book, but I need to do something with you first. I need to do a little exercise with you. Transport yourself into the Victorian era for one day. What are you wearing? What are you doing? Who are you flirting with? What are you snacking on?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Wow, that's tough. Because, like, my. The dream scenario is in the book. Like, I was like, I'm falling in love with a girl and we're going to the tea room and we're walking the bridge, and, you know, where all these things. And so, like, my inspiration of, like, just fantasy went into where there's room for us. Because I also think, like, you know, I'm obsessed with pride. And prejudice. And when I would watch that film, like, I thought I was like Mr. Darcy. Like, that was me. And so I would try to imagine myself in these situations and I would always go, well, I would. I want to be there because I'm Asian, I'm gay. I probably wouldn't be thriving, you know, all of these scenarios. And so, I mean, we'll get into the book later. But that's why I ended up kind of being inspired doing like a queer hyper reality version of it. Because when you ask me that question, like, what. What am I doing there? Like, the reality is, is. I don't know. I don. If I exist in that space, you know.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, to your point, something I found so interesting is that it's a love story about queer people and it's sidestepping this sort of like, queer tortured trope that we see in so many books and films. She just wants to be gay and to be happy. Were you inspired by Bridgerton at all? Like, where this alt universe exists? Almost.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

My original inspiration was Brandy Cinderella. I don't know if you ever saw that Mov.

[Danielle Robay]

The best. Yeah.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

And like the prince was Asian, you know. So I just. For me, that was like the beginning of that. But I also feel like Bridgerton has shown the world that people want to watch period pieces and support that, and those are kind of hard to get made. But yeah, I just like when I. I love Bridgerton, but I just always want it like really gay and I want to go like further into it. And I also am really inspired by like sisterhood and sister dynamics and I have an older S and a younger brother and just like sibling dynamics in general. And so those were kind of like the starting off branches of growing this the world that I've always wanted to be in.

[Danielle Robay]

Before reading your book, I didn't necessarily think of the Victorian era as especially sexy.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah, there's a lot of layers. There's the clothes, the heat, there's. I don't know if we're necessarily comfortable there.

[Danielle Robay]

Just feels like there's a lot of rules and pretense and ways to do things before you actually do the actual thing. For sure, for sure. Is there anything that you found doing research and writing that you feel like is surprisingly hot about the Victorian era?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

I mean, I think what makes it sexy and hot is like, it's like a no phone era. There's like, you have to wait for months for a letter to arrive. And like, there's just something super romantic about that time of just like, what are they thinking? And not knowing what they're thinking and not knowing what they're up to. When in 2025, we know what everyone's up to all the time. And if we don't know, we want to know immediately. And so I think just removing that aspect of it and being set in the Victorian era just makes it automatically romantic.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, wait, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you meet Becca, your partner, on the Internet?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

No, I didn't.

[Danielle Robay]

Where'd you guys meet?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

So our origin story is I had my album release party in 2018 for expectations, and I had invited like all these people, and so she was like a plus one at the party. And she walked in and I was like, oh, my gosh, that's Becca the Bachelor. But I like, foolishly pretended like I didn't know who she was from the Bachelor. Listen, everyone's guilty of this. Like, you just pretend that you don't know. But of course, you know always. But I met her and she was. I was very interested in her, but she was trying to hook me up with her younger sister. And so I had drinks, like, set up with her younger sister a couple days later, and the sister bailed. And so Becca told me she felt bad for me, so she went instead. And we had this date at the Chateau Marmont, and we were there for hours and we just hit it off. And that's our origin story. So for me, I've never really been able to write about our story. And so I was like, wow, it would be so cool to have my next book be inspired by our Meet Cute and this idea of her trying to hook me up with her younger sister, but then we end up falling love instead. And so that was kind of like the seed that kind of grew this. This entire idea and following kind of our love story within that.

[Danielle Robay]

I love the idea that this romantasy is based off of some real life events.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yes.

[Danielle Robay]

Why choose the Victorian era? Like, it's not really known for freedom of expression. Why set a queer love story there?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

No, I know. I love hard things. I just, like, I've always wanted to. To see myself in something like Pride and Prejudice or Bridgerton. And so I'm just like obsessed with that era because it's so romantic and sexy. And my main focus in life is to create hopeful, queer content, whether it's through music, whether it's through novels or films. Like, that is just my dying wish is to make as much content as possible. And when I was developing it, I realized I was like, I don't know If I can have a hopeful ending, I was like, if this is reality, I don't know if I thrive in this space. And so that's when I was like, oh, maybe it's a queer, hyper reality. Like, what does a world look like if you could be queer in the 1800s? Like, freely and, like, meeting up at the bridge at night and, like, having these lavish parties and, like, but you're also a woman. And there's so many, like, hypocritical things that we navigate as Women just in 2025. And so I was like, okay, what if I get rid of one discrimination, but two gay men can inherit land and continue the family line, but two women can't? And so it kind of created this interesting dynamic where I kind of set it up where Becca's character, Freya, is put in a situation where she has the pressure to marry a man and continue the family line. And she meets my character, and it's like, what does that look like? And how does that unfold? And I feel like everyone can relate to. I don't know. When you're dating and then when you find your person, Every family has expectations of who you're gonna be and who you're gonna date and who you're gonna love, no matter what your background is. I just was really excited and inspired about taking our Meet Cute. Putting it in the Victorian era and then letting it unfold and being like, is it still hard? Is it still hard to be yourself even if you have certain rights but you don't have all, you know? And what does that look like?

[Danielle Robay]

Every reader knows the feeling, that spark when you open a book and suddenly hours disappear. The way a story can pull you in so deeply, it feels like it was written just for you. On TikTok, that spark doesn't stay contained, it spreads. A single quote can inspire millions. A passionate review can send readers racing to the shelves, and a quiet recommendation can grow into the next big cultural moment. Here, genres collide, and new favorites emerge. Romances, thrillers, fantasies, and memoirs, all shared with the kind of honesty that makes discovery personal. Because on TikTok, books aren't just read. They're lived, discussed, celebrated, and passed along to the next person who needs them. It's more than reviews. It's connection. It's belonging. It's a global book club, always open, always growing. The TikTok book community is where the next story finds you, and the conversation never ends at just roll. They believe the kitchen is where joy lives with their refrigerated dough. There's no fussy proofing, no hours of waiting. Just big smells, big smiles and that first irresistible flaky bite. It's tiny hands helping unroll the dough. It's laughing over a slightly wonky cinnamon swirl. It's pulling golden puffed layers out of the oven and hearing that perfect crispy crackle they do the hard part. So you could skip straight to the fun. Just Roll Puff Pastry is made with non GMO high quality ingredients ready to roll with parchment paper straight from the fridge. No thawing, no stress, just golden bakery worthy layers every single time. With Just roll, every bake is simple. From savory show stopping appetizers to sweet dessert masterpieces, this is a fresh way to bake. Familiar but better. Find Just Roll Puff Pastry in the refrigerated section of your grocery store or visit justroll.com to find a store near you.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

I'm Eva Longoria.

[Danielle Robay]

And I'm Maite Gomez Rejuan. And on our podcast Hungry for History we mix two of our favorite favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells and they called these ostrakan to vote politicians into exile.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster.

[Danielle Robay]

No way.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Bring back the ostracon.

[Danielle Robay]

And because we've got a very mi casa es su casa kind of vibe.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

On our show, friends always stop by.

[Danielle Robay]

Pretty much every entry into this side.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Of the planet was through the El Golf of Mexico. El Golfo de Mexico continuaci forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment.

[Danielle Robay]

They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jenna World Jenna Jamison, Vivid Video and the Valley is a new podcast about the history of the adult film industry.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

I'm Molly Lambert, host of Heidi the Heidi Fly Story, and I'll be your.

[Danielle Robay]

Tour guide on a wild ride through adult film films.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

We get paid more than the men.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

We call the shots.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

In what way is that degrading? That's us taking hold of our Life.

[Danielle Robay]

In the 1990s, actress Jenna Jameson crossed over into mainstream culture, redefined stardom, then left it all behind. I'm a powerful woman. I think that's intimidating to a man with a cat. In the cast of hundreds of actors and comedians playing key figures, we'll take a look at how adult films became.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Legal in the 70s, hugely profitable in.

[Danielle Robay]

The 80s and 90s, and fell off a financial cliff in the 2000s. Listen to Genaworld on the iHeartRadio app.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's health and Gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in Newark City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. 100% of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life. But even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one, they have dementia and the other one is do I have adhd? There is unprecedented promise with regard to.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Have less pain, to have better mood.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

And also to have better day to day life.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening.

[Danielle Robay]

So you're kind of known for working things out in your writing. Like you've explored your sexuality and girls like girls. I know your EP Citrine was inspired by your experience with post concussion syndrome. Catharsis feels like it's a driving force for you. And in hearing what you just said about expectations and replacing one prejudice for another, I think is a better term. Was there anything that you were working out in the book?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah, I mean, I think just as an artist in general, you're inspired by things that you've experienced and then you kind of put them, you kind of put your experience in a box and then you're like, how do I navigate within this box and within these rules and what would happen and how would I feel? And so it kind of challenges you to really go deeper into just the human experience. And so that's what's so exciting about writing. And you know, I love writing music, but being able to, to really go extremely deep into, you know, 90,000 words of, of how you feel and what it would be like to be in that space is really freeing. And it's been something that I didn't realize I was missing in my life and it's been one of the most rewarding mediums I've dipped my toes in.

[Danielle Robay]

I'm curious as to why, because my instinct would be that music is so emotional that it would give you that. But why writing this book?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Well, listen, I love writing music. I love performing music. I think music is incredible. But, you know, when you're writing a song, there's a time limit. There's like, the challenge is different, right? It's like when you're writing a song, it's like, how do I tell my story with the most minimal amounts of words and how do I make that impact, like, immediately? And so that is like an extreme challenge within itself. And then the challenge with the novel. But the plus side is that you could talk about someone's jacket for like three pages. Like, you know, like, you can just go into this, that you just don't have that time within a song. And so both of the mediums have certain parameters and challenges within creation. But I just think that I had more to say. And so being able to have the freedom, you know, I talk about this a lot. Like, I started directing my music videos very early on in my career. And, you know, when you're directing a music video, you're budgeting things out. You have to pay for everything on screen. Every single thing you have to pay for. But when you're writing a book, it's like you could put a dragon in there, you could have an explosion. You could have like, you know, 80 Foot Castle or whatever it is. Like.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, you're imagining.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah. And so I think, like, I started my career in very, like, here's your parameters and how do you create in these parameters? And then this was kind of the first medium where I was like, there are no parameters. How do you create that way? Which is also just as challenging where you're like, okay, where does one begin? I can do anything. Where do we want to take it? And so that's been really exciting for me.

[Danielle Robay]

I'm so curious about your process and the difference between songwriting and writing a book. When you say, where do you begin? When you're writing a song, do you begin with a feeling?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

It depends. I love sitting in silence. So a lot of my best melody ideas come from being on a plane or being in the car. And I'll like, sing to myself and just like voice note, but for me it's melody. So I'm very melody driven, like plucking a melody out on the synth. Like one of my songs found my friends, the bom bom bom bom. I just like plucked that all on the synth and Then we just hooked up the mic and I just started like scatting over that melody. And so for me it's very melody driven. But then sometimes it's like I have this thing that I've been going through and you have kind of like in your notes, on your phone of like these ideas of, of songs that you're wanting to create. And obviously the more that you're writing, the more you're just able to do it. But yeah, music is, it comes naturally to me. I think the thing that connects all the things that I do is just storytelling. It's like, I think for me, I always grew up feeling like I wasn't enough or I didn't belong. I didn't feel like I was worthy. I didn't feel main character energy. And so my whole life is just like, can I be a pop star? Can a pop star look like this? Can I write a book? Can I direct a film? Is there space for me when, you know, under 5% of films are directed by women? Like, you know, just all these challenges. And I think for me I'm just so attracted to things that I've never done before. And can I do it is kind of the question.

[Danielle Robay]

And what's the feeling that you're after? What are you chasing when, like when you do do one of these things that feel near impossible?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

I think it's, I think it just goes back to like the inner child of like feeling enough, feeling like I belong. But it's like self, it's like self love. It's. It's self validation of like, oh, even if no one connects to this, this is something that I, I've accomplished that speaks true to me, that I believe in. And it's something that I was able to do from A to Z. And so I think it's just kind of healing, healing that, that part. And I think all of us have a specific hole in our heart that we're trying to patch up and mend or just grow and nurture. And through art is a really great way to do that.

[Danielle Robay]

If you start with melody when you're writing songs, where do you begin when you're writing a novel?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

I think for me I'm really trying to go back to my truth. And with Girls Like Girls, it was an interesting experience because the music video I had already created and then I was inspired to tell my story and then it was like, for Girls Like Girls, the challenge was how do I tell my story through pre created characters in a scenario that wasn't my scenario. And So I was like, how do I insert my story through that? So that was like the. The extreme hardship within my first debut novel. And then with where there's room for us, the hardship was where are the rules and where are the boundaries within this kind of hyper reality world that I'm creating? And so when I begin, it's kind of like, well, what is the truth? What am I trying to say? So I started with, well, I really want to include something that kind of mirrors the meet cute that I had with Becca at the Chateau Marmont. So I created this tea room and all these things. So I kind of just bullet point out all the things that I want to include. And then from there you're kind of connecting the dots of like, what am I, what is the arc? What am I trying to actually say? Like, what are the messages and the meanings and things that I'm really trying to get across that will resonate with. With myself, because if it resonates with me, it will resonate with others. And so I just start kind of. I'm very type A, so I just kind of start going down the line. And then eventually you have this idea, like, huge, huge outline. And then from there you're like, okay, now. Now we begin. Now we begin. But it was challenging. It was challenging because I was like, where. Where are the. The rules and like, and where. If you're queer but we're not equal, how does that fit in and how do you know? It was just like so many things to kind of navigate and figure out.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, the character of Ivy is a writer. She's half Japanese and she's kind of wild. And Freya definitely resembles your girlfriend Becca. So I'm curious where the line was for you between fantasy and reality.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

I think for me, it's kind of like I. I kind of outline the core truths. You know, it was like when Becca and I met. We come from two different worlds. We come from two different backgrounds. And it's like that was kind of. It, you know, like an Ivy kind of mirrors. You know, she's half Japanese, she's a writer. She's struggling. So I try to have like, some, like, even with the lesbian Jesus thing, it's like she's like famous in the sapphic world. Like, I was trying to find, like, little things, but also, you know, there is. It's fiction. So, you know, something like, there's no way I could ride a horse ever in a million trillion years. Like, there's things that Ivy is and does that that aren't me. That aren't me. Thank you. I can do anything. Thank you so much. Yeah, it starts with the core, just like the core themes. And then from there I kind of build it out. And then that's when the fiction and fantasy kind of evolves within the personalities. Because I am not Ivy and Becca is not Freya. But in this hyper reality world, if we were to meet in this space at this tea room, what would that look like?

[Danielle Robay]

Did she read chapter by chapter or did she read it at the end?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Well, so I told her the idea and then we, like talked it out and then, and then she's read the whole book and loved it. But, you know, the funny part is, is that she doesn't love, like, Regency period pieces. And so she was like, of course you're going to do this in a period, in a Regency era. So I just. But she loved it and she, she got through it for sure and it was great. But it was funny because I was like, oh, yeah, you don't. Because every time I watch Pride and Prejudice, I have to, like, watch it solo. Like, you know, every partner has their things. Like, she loves to watch really sad stuff. Like anytime I'm out of town, she's like. I would call her and she's like sobbing on the couch because she just watched, like, a penguin die or like some kind of something. And then, you know, and then when you're together, you have your certain things that you watch.

[Danielle Robay]

I will say I'm actually usually not a period piece person either.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Okay. Okay. So how was your experience?

[Danielle Robay]

So I really liked the book and I think that it sort of transcends that stereotype. Cause there's so many other fun elements in it.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yes. Okay, great.

[Danielle Robay]

I want to see this made into a film.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Me too. That's my dream. Or like a TV show. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Would be really, I think it would be so fun.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Thank you. Yeah, I, I, I just, I love the world and especially the bridge where everyone meets. And I think there's so many cool possibilities. So, you know, hopefully we can manifest that for the future and I can direct that. That would be awesome.

[Danielle Robay]

Every reader knows the feeling, that spark when you open a book and suddenly hours disappear. The way a story can pull you in so deeply, it feels like it was written just for you. On TikTok, that spark doesn't stay contained, it spreads. A single quote can inspire millions. A passionate review can send readers racing to the shelves. And a quiet recommendation can grow into the next big cultural moment. Here, genres collide and new favorites emerge. Romances thrillers, fantasies and memoirs, all shared with the kind of honesty that makes discovery personal. Because on TikTok, books aren't just read, they're lived, discussed, celebrated and passed along to the next person who needs them. It's more than reviews, it's connection, it's belonging. It's a global book club, always open, always growing. The TikTok book community is where the next story finds you and the conversation never ends. At Just Roll, they believe the kitchen is where joy lives with their refrigerated dough. There's no fussy proofing, no hours of waiting, just big smells, big smiles and that first irresistible flaky bite. They do the hard part so you could skip straight to the fun. Just Roll Puff Pastry is made with non GMO high quality ingredients ready to roll with parchment paper straight from the fridge. No thawing, no stress, just golden bakery worthy layers every single time. With Just Roll, every bake is simple. From savory show stopping appetizers to sweet dessert masterpieces, this is a fresh way to bake. Familiar but better find Just Roll Puff Pastry in the refrigerated section of your grocery store or visit justroll.com store near you Michael Lewis Here My book the Big Short tells the story of the buildup and birth of the US housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there.

[Danielle Robay]

Was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release and a decade after it became an Academy Award winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short story. What it means when people start betting against the market and who really pays for an unchecked financial system is as relevant to as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the Big Short now at Pushkin FM Audiobooks or wherever audiobooks are sold.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. 100% of women go through Menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life. But even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one, they have dementia and the other one is do I have adhd? There is unprecedented promise with regard to.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Have less pain, to have better mood.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

And also to have better day to day life.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now.

[Danielle Robay]

Jenna World. Jenna Jamison, Vivid Video and the Valley is a new podcast about the history of the adult film industry.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

Industry. I'm Molly Lambert, host of Heidi World, the Heidi Fly Story, and I'll be.

[Danielle Robay]

Your tour guide on a wild ride through adult films.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

We get paid more than the men.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

We call the shots.

[Charlotte McConaughey]

In what way is that degrading? That's us taking hold of our Life.

[Danielle Robay]

In the 1990s, actress Jenna Jameson crossed over into mainstream culture, redefined stardom, then left it it all behind. I'm a powerful woman. I think that's intimidating to a man. With a cast of hundreds of actors and comedians playing key figures, we'll take a look at how adult films became.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Legal in the 70s, hugely profitable in.

[Danielle Robay]

The 80s and 90s, and fell off a financial cliff in the 2000s. Listen to Genaworld on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast podcasts. Okay, so you've had so many eras. You've had pop star, actor, director, author, and with each one, it feels like your style evolves too. We've seen the bucket hats, we've seen bold suits, we've seen dreamy pastels.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Wow. Wow, thanks.

[Danielle Robay]

Which aside from fashion, even though I really love your fashion, I shouldn't even have even brought it into this equation. How have you figured out what's you in each of these eras? How has your voice evolved with fashion?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

You know, you want to feel your best and you want to feel confident. So sometimes I look back at photos and outfits that just look absolutely outrageous. But like in that moment at that time, I felt so good and that's all that matters.

[Danielle Robay]

Same Hailey.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

You know, like we live and learn, but in that moment I felt amazing and like that's what counts. But would I wear that today? Maybe not. I'm not sure.

[Danielle Robay]

What have you discovered about yourself as you've grown through all of these coming of age moments. Like when you. Have you ever looked at a 10 year old photo of you?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah, for sure.

[Danielle Robay]

You know how people like, look at those photos and are like, what would you tell yourself? I guess that's what I'm curious about.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

For me, I would just tell her, like, it's, well, it's gonna be okay. But also that like, being yourself is like the most powerful thing you can do. And I think so many people in life spend so many years trying to not be themselves. Like, that's, that's the arc, right? Like you're born, society and culture tell you, tells you that you need to be a certain way. And so every year you're stripping that away. And every year you're. You're changing yourself to really fit in. And then you hit a point where you almost do like a full circle. And I think that's where that I'm kind of in that curve where I'm kind of going back to who I have always been. And that's like a really hard thing to do because you're dismantling so many lies and things that have been said to, to yourself from your. And I think the whole journey in life is just going back to who you've always been and like acknowledging that and then celebrating that. And I think that's the most like, freeing thing that we can do as people for ourselves.

[Danielle Robay]

I felt you get a little emotional when you talked about being yourself is like the most powerful thing that you can do. Why did that make you emotional?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

I always get emotional. I always get emotional just talking about, just. Well, I get emotional if, like, someone says a nice thing to me. So it's not a surprise, but it's. I think it's emotional because so many people in this world do not believe that they can be themselves and thrive and have a good life and feel safe to be themselves, you know, especially in this, this political climate and just this world that we live in. It's just, that's such a simple thing. And yet it's like one of the hardest things to do. You know, it's revolutionary to be yourself.

[Danielle Robay]

I think it is. And also people talk about joy as revolutionary. I know.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah. Yeah, I love that too. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, I think embracing queer joy is something you talked about at the beginning of our conversation and it's also in your acknowledgments. You write, my dream is to create hopeful narratives and expand queer representation through music, films and novels for the rest of my life. Thank you for supporting me in every medium and for giving Me the confidence to share my truth. I love you all so much. What does Queer Joy look like for you in your life right now?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

I mean, I think just being outside, hanging out with friends, like, basics, like, basic things like cooking, like learning a recipe and cooking a really amazing meal. Because I think for queer people in general, and so many oppressed people were just exhausted. And so I think refueling ourselves and filling our cup up is like, radical and like, very important because if we're able to show up, then other people's people are able to show up too. And so for me, it's that, like, you know, being present and. And doing what I can to be true to myself. And for me, that's telling, you know, sharing stories and world building and creating content that can hopefully make someone smile or cry in a comforting way. And that's my part, you know, that's the way I'm able to connect with people and find ways to ignite hope.

[Danielle Robay]

You mentioned your dad earlier that he would hand out flyers with you.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

So he was always supportive.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Oh, yeah. Like, he wears the Kyoko hat all over Los Angeles County. So, like, if you see a tall white man with a Kyoko hat on, that's my dad.

[Danielle Robay]

He is like, oh, my God.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah, he's. He's on the front lines sharing the Kyoko joy and queer content.

[Danielle Robay]

If. If someone were to like, lay out all of your work next to each other, the album covers, the films, all of it, what's the connective tissue? What is something that would make them.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Say, that's Haley's women point. That's very, very easy question. That's a great question. I would actually like to lay that out. That would be cool. I think women and like, warm tones.

[Danielle Robay]

Aesthetically warm.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah. Like, I love orange and yellows and like, very inviting tones. So I tend to everything that I do, whether it's music video and then directing the movie for Girls Like Girls, just like, just is. Everything is warm because I want people to feel safe when they're watching things or digesting things. So I would say those two things.

[Danielle Robay]

So your first novel, Girls Like Girls, was inspired by your song that we keep talking about in the music video. Obviously. When are we getting a visual for this new book? Because I can already picture it.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Hopefully it's successful. I mean, for me, for Girls Like.

[Danielle Robay]

Girls, it's going to be.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

It became a New York Times bestseller. And then I was finally able to get the film greenlit because of that success. And so. So, you know, if everyone supports where there's Room for us, and it becomes this, you know, successful thing. Then I think it would be easier to be like, hey, Hollywood, make this into a TV show. And listen, all of the queer TV shows unfortunately get canceled after, like, one or two seasons. So we deserve something that's thriving for at least two seasons. Like, come on. So I'd like to manifest that. Cause a visual for where there's room for us would be the dream. Like, that's the dream.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. And I feel like you are lead costume designer, even though you have other. Other titles on set.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Oh, my God. That's so funny. My girlfriend would say otherwise. She styles me a lot. She's got better fashion taste than I do, but I appreciate that.

[Danielle Robay]

That's really funny. She does have good style.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah, she does.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, before we come to our. Actually, I have a question about Becca and your relationship. Do you feel like that love healed you in any way?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think every relationship either just heals you in a way of, like, that's not what I want, or this is what I want. And I. The love that Becca and I have is.

[Danielle Robay]

Just.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Has gone beyond what I thought love was. Because I think it's, you know, because we come from such different backgrounds, we've had to navigate so many things and have had to, like, really communicate and find if we don't know how to communicate, we learn how to communicate. And it's just really cool to find a partner that is willing to do the work. Because when two people don't want to show up in a relationship, then, you know, it either is dysfunctional or it falls apart. And with Becca and I, it's just like, we've always wanted to do our part and, like, show up. And that's been like, the coolest, coolest, coolest kind of love to have. Because it feels like we can navigate anything and also, like, laugh and have fun. Like, we have so much fun. And I get. It's funny. Like, we both were like. We were kind of, like, hesitant to call each other best friends because I was always like, I wanna. I was like, I wan. A partner. I don't want a best friend. I have a best friend. Like, you know, and. But it's been interesting to kind of do this whole full circle. I mean, we were. We've been together for over seven years now, and she is my best friend, but we both were kind of just like. I don't know. I don't. There was something about it that we didn't want to admit. But going through, you know, seven Years of love. Like, she is my best friend and partner and it's just. And again going back to like my younger self. I mean, my dream was to have a love like this. I didn't even know that, that this kind of love existed for me. And so I think it was. It's been so healing to just be like, holy Hailey, like, you got. You got the girl. You know, and like, it's. It's amazing and it's healthy and it's. And continues to evolve and grow. And so that's been like, really cool because most of my career was writing about all of my toxic relationships and situationships. Like, I would be in like love triangles and I'd be gaslighting. Like, I just would be in so many things. And so it's exciting to get to like start a chapter of, of where, like, where does my art go when like that part is healed and that's, you know, where there's room for us, which has been really cool.

[Danielle Robay]

First of all, I love that you're such a crier. I am.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Also, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, just waterworks. 2, 4, 7.

[Danielle Robay]

Something happened when I turned 26. The faucet turned on and I just couldn't turn it off ever again. So I feel you so deeply.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

And.

[Danielle Robay]

Thank you for sharing so much of your heart. I could tell that was. That came through you. That wasn't even from you. In terms of writing about the love and the meet cute in the book, are there any Easter eggs that we can look out for while reading that maybe. We wouldn't know unless we heard you talk about it that were things that actually happened between you and Becca.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah. I mean, the main thing is that tearoom thing. I always try to like put some of my song titles in there and find ways to like. I named the horse Citrine. Like just finding like little things. So my fans who've been there from the beginning, they know. They know and I know, but maybe new fans may not have. And so there's like little Easter eggs like that throughout. And I don't want to spoil the end of the book, but the end of the book has a really nice just kind of like bow to just our journey, which has been really cool.

[Danielle Robay]

We're gonna do something that is called speed read. So here's how it works. We put 60 seconds on the clock and we're gonna see just how many rapid fire literary questions you can get through. Okay. It's so intense, Hailey.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

I literally just got acid reflux. I'm like, not prepared.

[Danielle Robay]

I saw you swallow.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Okay, I'm slow. Okay, let's do it.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. Ready? Set. What is one literary trope you would ban forever?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Just like, queer trauma in general, or like the gay best friend that's one dimensional. That's just like the sidekick.

[Danielle Robay]

Yes.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yes.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, what's one trope that you'll defend with your life?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Falling in love with an emotionally unavailable person.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, I feel personally attacked. What's a book that you wish you had written?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Well, I mean, Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo is, like, the best book of all times. Thanks so much, Taylor Jenkins Reid.

[Danielle Robay]

I made my grandma read that recently. Okay, favorite book to recommend.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Oh, I love Rick Rubin's book, the creative act, A way of being like. I. I continue to reread it over and over again. Like, I can't stop.

[Danielle Robay]

That is such a good one. What is the best book you've never read?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Pachinko by Min Jin Lee. I've been really wanting to read it, and it's supposed to be phenomenal, and I have yet to read it, but it's on my list.

[Danielle Robay]

Who would narrate your memoir audiobook?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Oh, easy, Sandra Bullock.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh, that was that exciting.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Is that allowed?

[Danielle Robay]

That's so great. What book shaped the way you see the world?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Oh, my God. The four Agreements. It changed my life. Like, I live by those agreements.

[Danielle Robay]

I do, too. And I try and reread it once in a while.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Yeah, I do. I do. There's also the fifth agreement. There's, like, many. There's some extras that you could add on to your bookshelf.

[Danielle Robay]

I didn't know. Okay, I have a final question of the day here at Bookmarked. What? Have you bookmarked art this week?

[Hailey Kiyoko]

Oh, my gosh. Actually, I just saved something on Instagram and I'm going to read it to you. Your intuition, your nervous system, and your values can help you make decisions. Trust the three guides inside of you. When in doubt, close your eyes and feel your truth by Young Pueblo. Thank you so much.

[Danielle Robay]

Thank you, Young Pueblo. And thank you, Haley. Namaste. The light in me sees the light in you. There's something magical happening on TikTok. A whole world of people who don't just read books. They bring stories to life. It's where I first heard about beach, read by Emily Henry. Post after post pulled me in until I finally picked it up myself and wow. It's one of those stories that stays with you long after the last page. Here. Stories don't end when you close the book. They live on through reviews, read alongs and fandom castings. It's a place for quiet discoveries, for the stories that find you when you're not even looking. TikTok turns reading into connection, where curiosity fuels conversation and learning feels alive. Because when we share what moves us, challenges us, and makes us feel seen, the story keeps going. So what's the story that's found you? You start your Hero's Journey at TikTok.com exploremore and if you want a little bit more from us, come hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's Book Club on Instagram serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes magic. And I'm Danielle Robay, R O B A Y Come say hi and DM me. And if you want to go 90s on us, call us. Okay? Our phone line is open, so call now at 1-501-291-3379. That's 1-501291-3379. Share your literary hot takes, book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode. So don't be shy, give us a rain. And of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your shows. Until then, see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of hello Sunshine and iheart Podcast. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me, Danielle Robaix. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Foley, Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schlied and production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter are the executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla and Ashley Rapoport are associate producers for Reese's Book Club. Ally Perry and Lauren Hanson are the executive producers for iHeart podcasts. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet Just like books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more at thefabricofourlives.com Every reader knows the thrill of discovering a book that feels like it was written just for you. On TikTok, that happens every day, millions of people are recommending fantasy sagas, thrillers, romances, and hidden gems you might have missed. It's more than reviews, it's readers opening up about the stories that changed their lives. TikTok is where your next favorite book finds you in a warm and welcoming place. And with millions shaping what's trending in reading, Discovery feels endless. Join the community and start exploring stories on TikTok. Hey, I'm Kyle McLaughlin. You might know me as that guy from Twin Peaks, Sex and the City, or just the Internet Stand. I have a new podcast called what Are We Even Doing? Where I embark on a noble quest to understand the brilliant chaos of youth culture. Each week I invite someone fascinating to join me to talk about navigating this high speed roller coaster we call reality. Join me in my daughter delightful guests every Thursday and let's get weird together in a good way. Listen to what are We Even doing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Nora Jones and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing along is Back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Levy, Rufus Wainwright, Mavis Staples. Really too many to name and there's still so much more to come in this new season. Listen to Nora Jones is Playing along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hailey Kiyoko]

When you're high, you feel different. You think different, you talk different, you draw different, you listen to music different. But you probably knew that. Problem is, you also drive different, and not in a good way. That's why driving high is illegal everywhere. So if you're high, just don't drive. Make a plan to get a sober ride because if you feel different, you drive different. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.

[Danielle Robay]

This is an iHeart podcast.