Podcast Summary: Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club

Episode: How Hamnet Made the Whole World Cry

Guests: Maggie O’Farrell (author), Chloé Zhao (director), Paul Mescal (actor)
Host: Danielle Robay
Air Date: January 20, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode brings together Maggie O’Farrell (author of Hamnet), Chloé Zhao (director and co-writer of the acclaimed film adaptation), and Paul Mescal (who plays Shakespeare in the film). Fresh from the Hamnet movie’s Best Picture win at the Golden Globes, the conversation navigates the journey of Hamnet from page to screen—exploring creativity, spirituality, synchronicity, grief, and bravery in storytelling. The group also delves into artistic process, adaptation, actor-director dynamics, and even playfully envisions “Shakespeare in outer space.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins: From Novel to Phenomenon

[05:08] Maggie O’Farrell on Film Rights and Early Hopes

• The adaptation began quietly: "It had been a kind of slow burn… But I do remember when Liza [Marshall] called me and said, Chloé Zhao is interested. And I just felt this kind of quickening in my heartbeat because… I knew she was never going to make a kind of conventional, costumey costume drama."
• O’Farrell wanted the film to center on Hamnet’s family instead of Shakespeare: "I wanted this one where the boy and his sisters and the mother were going to be front and center."
  [06:44] Chloé Zhao’s Director Perspective
• Zhao was drawn to the embodiment and rawness of the story: “In my films, Maggie could see that I’m all about the body… I’m working to get myself out of my head into my body. The book just archetypally serves as such an incredible container for that heart-mind connection…”

2. Synchronicity and Art Birthed in the Pandemic

[09:31] Chloé Zhao & Maggie O’Farrell
Both Hamnet (the novel) and Nomadland (Zhao’s previous film) debuted during the pandemic, giving their work unexpected resonance:

• O’Farrell: “The experience of the pandemic is casting long, long effects into everybody’s lives. It’s always going to be part of us, I think.”
• Mescal observes that both his rise (Normal People) and Zhao & O’Farrell’s works happened then, connecting their creative journeys.

3. Casting & Adaptation Serendipity

[11:25] Paul Mescal & Chloé Zhao on Hamlet, Shakespeare, and Chemistry

• Mescal recounts how he nudged Zhao to read Hamnet, sensing they would work well together:

  “I was a huge fan of the book … I really want to work with Chloe. … I thought she was going to be doing Hamnet, but she didn't bring it up for like an hour… and then [she asked] ‘Have you ever thought about playing William Shakespeare?’”

• Zhao admits she hadn’t read the book before considering the project; once she did, she realized its emotional depth went well beyond the expected Shakespeare lens.

4. Portraying the Unnamed: Shakespeare as Character

[15:50] Paul Mescal on the Freedom of Playing an Unnamed Shakespeare

• “It’s very freeing because … one of those mythical figures that we actually know very little about factually … not naming him, I think, is a really clever thing that Maggie did. … The minute you name someone … it becomes a much more subjective experience of Will’s grief.”

5. On Grief, Artistry, and Vulnerability

[22:05 – 26:23] Mescal, O’Farrell & Zhao on Channeling Shakespeare, Grief, and Bravery

• Mescal is struck by how Shakespeare’s writing on grief predates his son’s death, revealing “…he’s got his finger on the pulse of humanity at large…”
• Mescal: “The thing that I learned specifically about why I admire him so much is not his words. It’s actually how much of himself as an artist he’s willing to share with an audience forever.”
• The group discusses the cost and courage of vulnerability in art, with Mescal reflecting:

  “You are making an intentional decision … to remove yourself from the other part of your life, which I think is a scary thing, but also a thing that makes artists… very brave people to me.” [27:23]

6. Dreamwork & Artistic Process

[27:37] Chloé Zhao on Dreamwork

• The film’s cast underwent dreamwork before filming to deepen their connection to the material and their characters.
• Zhao highlights the emotional and physical toll, mentioning:

  “There were moments where [Paul] was embodied what it’s like to be pulled in different directions… it was suffering, his body was going through something really excruciating. … That is to be or not to be.”

• Zhao felt the pressure to translate O’Farrell’s subtleties:

  “Reading the book gave me great anxieties… the subtleties and the depth that Maggie is writing … have to be able to capture these nuances, you know, and we really would push for that.” [32:39]

7. Collaboration in Screenwriting and Filmmaking

[37:00] Maggie O’Farrell on Screenwriting for Film

• O’Farrell, a first-time screenwriter, learned the value of economy and trust:

  “…as a novelist, you’re a lone wolf… on set, you realize that actually you are trusting that Paul and Jessie… will put all the nuance that you have in your description in the novel into the lines.”

• She likens screenplay writing to puzzle-solving and stresses the communal nature of filmmaking.

8. The Globe, Catharsis, and Cinema as Communion

[39:33] O’Farrell & Zhao on the Film’s Ending

• O’Farrell treasures the last 15 minutes, set at The Globe: “In the film, we did completely let Shakespeare's flag fly… I’ve always wanted to go back to the Globe for the first production of Hamlet. And now I have, because Chloe built it and Paul acted it.”
• Zhao describes the collaborative effort to realize the film’s cathartic finale, recalling:

  “…I had a very spiritual experience in that Globe theater. … When the entire cast and crew are opening their heart and grieving together… that physically showed me… what eternity is like. And that’s love.” [44:14]

9. Embodiment, Chemistry, and Performance

[46:21] Chemistry Between Paul Mescal and Jessie Buckley (Anya/Agnes)
Host notes, “‘We became attuned to each other as if we were married. And I haven’t experienced that before.’”

• Mescal: “It’s rooted in respect and collaboration… my relationship with Jessie is a very key relationship in my life generally now, inside and outside of the film… because of having her there and Chloe and the material that Maggie gave us, it allowed a relationship to… build that wasn’t necessarily just on the page.” [47:17]

10. Art That Changes Its Creators

[53:27–58:49] How Hamnet Changed the Panel

• O’Farrell: Being on set was “mind-blowing … you’d hear someone say a line, and I’d think, oh, God, I wrote that… It was wonderful to be a part of.”
• Zhao: “It’s very much changed my life… moments like that—when her first curiosity goes, why don’t they talk about this little boy?—that’s the point of contact… it just kind of feels like something much bigger is at work than us.”
• Mescal: “Discovery… not apologizing for being an artist… there’s a lot of sacrifice that’s gone into the last six, seven years… you can’t apologize for it anymore, which is a big learning for me. … For me, there’s a moment in the film, running through the woods… that, to me, felt like what creativity feels like—expression and bodies getting big and the feeling just coming up through you.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Maggie O’Farrell

  • “I wanted this one where the boy and his sisters and the mother were going to be front and center.” [05:40]
  • “As a novelist, you’re a lone wolf… on set, you realize… your job… is to be economic and to trust everybody else to put back in what we’d had to strip out.” [37:00]

• Chloé Zhao

  • “The book just archetypally serves as such an incredible container for that heart-mind connection… there is Agnes in all of us that has been cast away… I want to live like that, from my heart, not just from my mind.” [07:00–08:25]
  • “When the entire cast and crew are opening their heart and grieving together… that physically showed me in an embodied way what eternity is like. And that’s love.” [44:14]

• Paul Mescal

  • “It’s very freeing because… [Shakespeare is] one of those mythical figures that we actually know very little about factually… Not naming him is very intentional… it tells you what the focus is.” [16:00]
  • “You are making an intentional decision with yourself to remove yourself from the other part of your life… that makes artists very brave people.” [27:23]
  • “My relationship with Jessie is a very key relationship in my life generally now, inside and outside of the film.” [47:17]

• Chloé Zhao’s “Bookmark”

  • “It says something about grief being the placenta that will gave birth to you… the version of you had died because what you lost … so you do need to rebirth. Grief is that presenter that you need to hold you through the rebirthing process.” [59:00]

• Maggie O’Farrell’s “Bookmark”

  • “Mary Oliver… what do you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? … such a great question.” [59:50]

• Paul Mescal’s “Bookmark”

  • “Seamus Heaney’s ‘The Underground,’ … it’s one of my favorite poems.” [60:20]

Fun Segment: Shakespeare in Outer Space

[61:10–62:59] 60-Second Adaptation: Macbeth

• Paul: “We’re adapting Macbeth.”
• Chloé: “Year 3000.”
• Maggie: “In space. … The king of space is not doing a great job. … Macbeth’s wife… on board and keen for him to do it.”
• Paul: “Like Han Solo-esque.”
• Chloé (ending): “Unsex me here. … Maybe if she stays alive, she will find strength… she doesn’t need to be unsexed to do something extraordinary.”

On Making Audiences Cry

[63:08] Maggie O’Farrell

• “You have to be right there in the beating pulse of the book and you have to feel the grief… I did it in 15 minute bursts… took me a fortnight to write those two scenes and they were really hard and I was really upset.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:08] – Maggie on adaptation & vision for the film
• [06:44] – Chloé on embodiment and ‘yearning for Agnes’
• [09:31] – Pandemic synchronicity & creative arcs
• [11:25] – Paul & Chloé describe first casting discussions
• [15:50] – Paul on unnamed Shakespeare
• [22:05] – Paul on Shakespeare’s grief & artistry
• [27:37] – Chloé on dreamwork and acting choices
• [37:00] – Maggie on co-writing the screenplay
• [39:33] – On the film’s ending and The Globe Theatre
• [44:14] – Chloé’s spiritual experience during filming
• [47:17] – Paul on chemistry with Jessie Buckley
• [53:34] – Reflections: How Hamnet changed their lives
• [59:00] – Each guest shares their “bookmark” (favorite line, quote, or poem)
• [61:10] – "Shakespeare adaptation in space" improv
• [63:08] – Maggie on writing scenes that make people cry

Tone and Style

The episode’s tone is intimate and reflective, often joyous and frequently emotional—balancing a reverence for art and storytelling with warmth, wit, and playful creativity (e.g., the closing “Macbeth in space” segment). All three guests speak candidly about vulnerability, connection, and the unseen labor that underpins both literary and cinematic achievements.

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a rare glimpse into the intertwined lives and processes of artists working across different mediums, united by a story of loss and love that transcends centuries. Listeners leave with a richer appreciation of the creative risks behind Hamnet and a sense of the community and courage art requires—and, as Chloé Zhao says, “how eternity is love.”