Let Malala Reintroduce Herself

Summary

Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club – “Let Malala Reintroduce Herself”

Episode Date: October 14, 2025
Host: Danielle Robay
Guest: Malala Yousafzai
Special Guest Segment: Reese Witherspoon & Harlan Coben

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, Danielle Robay sits down with Nobel Peace Prize laureate, activist, and author Malala Yousafzai to discuss her latest memoir, Finding My Way. Known globally as the courageous Pakistani girl who was shot by the Taliban for advocating girls' education, Malala uses this conversation to reclaim her own story, sharing a raw, candid, and deeply personal account of her journey to self-actualization through her college years and beyond. The episode celebrates not just Malala’s activism, but her humanity—her friendships, mental health struggles, rebellious impulses, and the process of forging her own identity apart from the global icon she’s become.
Before delving into Malala’s interview, Reese Witherspoon and Harlan Coben make a guest appearance to talk about their new coauthored thriller, Gone Before Goodbye.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reese Witherspoon & Harlan Coben: A Novel Collaboration

[03:16–06:39]

• Gone Before Goodbye is Reese Witherspoon’s debut novel, written in collaboration with best-selling thriller author Harlan Coben.
• Reese describes the process: “This book, you guys, has been in my head for four years. ... It's one of the things I'm most proud of in my life because it was really challenging.” (Reese Witherspoon, 04:09)
• Harlan’s hope for their story: “I can't wait for the part where people take Gone Before Goodbye to bed… and the next thing you know, it's 4 or 5 in the morning and you've read all night and you're deliriously happy and a little bleary eyed…” (Harlan Coben, 05:50)
• Danielle gushes about the book, calling it unputdownable: “I got my hands on one of the 50 advance reader copies and I devoured it in a single night.” (Danielle Robay, 06:39)

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2. Malala’s Reintroduction: Beyond the World’s Expectations

[08:08–11:45]

• Danielle frames Malala’s journey: famed for her activism and survival, but seldom known as a relatable young woman with “messy, complicated, contradictory” facets.
• Malala’s Motivation:
  • “I wanted to share more about my college experience, my love life, my activism, all of it, my mental health, so that people can get a true picture of who I am as a person. So this is the most personal reflections I have ever shared. And this is me reintroducing myself.” (Malala, 11:09)

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3. The College Years: Growth, Rebellion, & Self-Discovery

[11:57–17:07]

• Why Now?
  • Attending Oxford changed her: “If I hadn't had that opportunity, I don't think I would have really grown as a person.”
  • Being away from family and the activism spotlight gave her liberty to explore, make mistakes, and “be a free soul.”
• The Crazy, Reckless Incidents:
  • Tells a vivid story of “roof climbing” at Oxford: sneaking onto the rooftop, feeling “alive,” and joining the ranks of “rebellious college kids.”
  • “There was this moment where I connected with myself. I felt a sense of ease, a sense of finding like, my soul.” (Malala, 15:29)
• Living Between Two Worlds:
  • The challenge of balancing her public ‘hero’ image with her very normal college experiences—mental health, love, struggling with coursework, friendships, and fashion.

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4. Book Excerpt & The Struggle to Be Herself

[15:56–17:07]

• Malala reads from the first page of her memoir; a poignant passage on being plucked from one life into another after being shot at fifteen:
  • “At 15 years old, I hadn't had time to figure out who I wanted to be when suddenly everyone wanted to tell me who I was… When I was alone, I unraveled. Because the hardest thing to be was myself.” (Malala, 15:56)
• Danielle highlights the universality, especially for women, of the “chasm” between who we are and who we want to be.

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5. Unraveling & Growth: Letting Herself Make Mistakes

[18:04–21:09]

• Malala explores the idea of “unraveling” as necessary for self-discovery. Breaking free from perfectionism and giving herself permission to make mistakes in college was integral to growth.
• Peer friendships at Oxford were key to feeling ‘normal’: “I'm so glad that I prioritized other things other than just sticking to reading books. …I just want to go and join them. Closed my book, and off I went.” (Malala, 18:04)

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6. Redefining the Hero Narrative

[19:33–21:09]

• Malala challenges the notion that heroes can’t have regular lives; insists on embracing her own humanity:
  • “We have very wrong expectations about what a hero should look like. That doesn't mean that they no longer have a normal life… like, making friends and having these experiences or staying up late just chatting with friends about astrology and boys and gossip...” (Malala, 19:36)
• Shares the little joys and normalcy of friendship, favorite star signs (Cancer for Malala, Capricorn for Danielle), and the blend of nurturing and blunt friends that helped her through tough times.

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7. Family, Expectations, & Becoming a Provider

[24:27–27:08]

• Malala discusses being a “wallflower, a punching bag, a paycheck”—shouldering the sudden responsibility of supporting her family after moving to the UK.
  • “At 15, I was supposed to be earning for the family...suddenly, like, at 15, I was supposed to be earning for the family.” (Malala, 24:27)
• Struggles to balance activism, travel, and her studies—her academic performance suffers until she decides to curb travel during term.
• Honesty about the financial realities and pressures of fame vs. public perception.

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8. Identity, Legacy, & Honoring Multiple Cultures

[30:54–36:43]

• Danielle brings up Malala’s affinity for WWE and wrestling with her brothers—offering a lighthearted, relatable view.
• They reflect on the “name prophecy”: Malala was named after a legendary Pashtun heroine known as the “Joan of Arc” of Afghanistan; her father wanted her to be courageous and fearless, but only later does Malala realize her mother’s deep influence.
• Honest discussion of generational and cultural gaps—her mother, who couldn't read or write, versus Malala, the world's most prominent ambassador for education.
  • Fashion and “camouflage”: blending traditional Pakistani clothing (her mother's preference) with Western trends to “blend in.”
  • “To me, they weren't just clothes, they were camouflaged.” (Danielle Robay, paraphrasing, 41:38)
• Malala describes making her mom the more central parent figure in this memoir, recognizing her mother’s resilience.

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9. Mental Health: Panic, Trauma, and the Path to Healing

[47:35–54:03]

• Malala opens up about her mental health struggle toward the end of college.
  • “I had my first panic attack in college...I thought...this mental health thing will never be part of my life because of what I have overcome. ... I started getting these flashbacks of the attack...” (Malala, 48:14)
  • Describes an episode after trying a bong with friends—resulting in intense flashbacks, panic attacks, and lingering trauma.
• The importance, but also the challenge, of discussing mental health with immigrant parents:
  • “I noticed immediately that my mom and my dad just, like, sort of were, like, panicking a bit...I was like, they won't understand that I need support.” (Malala, 51:12)
• Therapy and friends were vital: “She [the therapist] helped me understand that we have to embrace it, accept it, take it all in. ... I also changed the way I live my life now. I try to go outdoors more, go for a walk, eat well, sleep well, run.” (Malala, 52:43)
• Danielle thanks Malala for her honesty and highlights the importance of seeking help—and being there for those who need support.

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10. Redefining Malala: From the Butterfly Under Glass to Living Authentically

[54:03–56:50]

• Malala describes her frustration at being “forever trapped under dusty glass”—the media’s fixation on her pain after the attack.
  • “It made me feel like a butterfly with a straight pin through its heart, forever trapped under dusty glass.” (Danielle paraphrasing Malala, 54:48)
• Her new memoir is her way of giving people a different set of questions to ask her—invitations into the fullness and fun of her post-trauma self.

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11. Looking Back and Forward: Advice to Her Younger Self & Rapid-Fire Round

[56:50–59:08]

• If young Malala could see her now: “I think she will be surprised. She would be happy. She would be excited and thrilled.” (Malala, 57:02)
• Speed round:
  • Book she’d like to reread for the first time: The Twilight Series
  • Favorite book recommendation: Trevor Noah’s Born a Crime
  • Most surreal meeting with a world leader: Challenging a diplomat's claim that Afghanistan is “much better for women now.”
  • Tradition from home: “Drinking tea, offering tea to others. It’s amazing.”
  • Pet names for her husband: “My bubblegum, my sweetheart, or like my John Cena.” (Malala, 58:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is me reintroducing myself.”
  — Malala Yousafzai, 11:09

• “There was this moment where I connected with myself. I felt a sense of ease, a sense of finding like, my soul.”
  — Malala Yousafzai, 15:29

• “When I was alone, I unraveled. Because the hardest thing to be was myself.”
  — Malala Yousafzai (reading from her memoir), 15:56

• “I just loved being around my friends, and I was there for them, and I really cared how I made them feel. Cancers have this more motherly, nurturing personality.”
  — Malala Yousafzai, 20:52

• “But as I got older, I realized that my mom and women from her time had fought for these things… My mom is a very strong person… It was more her actions that spoke louder.”
  — Malala Yousafzai, 35:51

• “I think the most important thing is to know that you can ask for help. Go ask for help. And for those around you who you think might need help, like, be there.”
  — Malala Yousafzai, 53:52

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 03:16–06:39 — Reese Witherspoon & Harlan Coben introduce their novel Gone Before Goodbye.
• 08:08–11:45 — Malala’s introduction: reclaiming her narrative; motivations for her memoir.
• 15:56–17:07 — Memoir excerpt on identity crisis post-attack.
• 19:33–21:09 — Redefining “hero”; joy of non-exceptional experiences and star sign camaraderie.
• 24:27–27:08 — The burden of being the family provider at 15.
• 35:51–38:19 — Malala reflects on her mother’s influence, culture, and generational understanding.
• 47:35–52:43 — Panic attacks, trauma, therapy, and mental health journey.
• 54:03–56:50 — The “butterfly under glass” metaphor and expanding her media narrative.
• 56:50–59:08 — Advice to her younger self and rapid-fire round of light questions.

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Tone & Language

The episode is conversational, intimate, and often humorous—grounded in the authenticity and candor both Danielle and Malala bring. Malala especially is reflective, vulnerable, and relatable, weaving between lighthearted stories (wild nights, WWE fandom) and deeper explorations of trauma, expectations, and family.

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Final Thoughts

This episode transcends Malala’s public persona, offering a vibrant, multifaceted portrait of a young woman in progress—someone claiming her right to “ordinary” joys and struggles, as well as extraordinary achievements. Candid, wise, and at times laugh-out-loud funny, Malala’s willingness to show her real self is both moving and quietly radical. Whether you’re familiar with her story or not, this conversation will make you rethink what it means to reintroduce yourself—not just once, but over and over again.

Transcript

[Danielle Robay]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Danielle Robay]

Episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands, but also in the world around you? In the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton leaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something. Cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn [e-mail] People called them murderers.

[Chris Pine]

Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open heart surgery. Welcome to the wild west of American medicine. I'm Chris Pine and this is is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart pounding thrillers, you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[Danielle Robay]

You listen to podcasts sponsored by Jasper AI Built for marketers. Sami Gente It's Ana Ortiz and I'm Mark and Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty.

[Malala Yousafzai]

We're rewatching the series from start to.

[Danielle Robay]

Finish and getting into all the fash, the drama and the behind the scenes moments that you've never heard before but.

[Microsoft Defender Mom (Advertiser Voice)]

You were still bartending. I didn't know that.

[Danielle Robay]

The bar pack is like is that.

[Malala Yousafzai]

You and I turn around and it's.

[Danielle Robay]

A commercial for Betty and I was.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Like I gotta go.

[Danielle Robay]

I quit.

[Microsoft Defender Mom (Advertiser Voice)]

Listen to Viva Betty on the iHeartRadio.

[Danielle Robay]

App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts bookmarked by Reese's Book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi, I'm Danielle Robay and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. Today we're turning the page with Malala Yousafzai. You think you know her story, think again. Malala has a new one to share and it is raw and candid and straight from her just released memoir. And she's sharing it with us today. But first, Reese Witherspoon is here with us and she's bringing her co author Harlan Coben with her for a very special announcement.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Hey, Danielle.

[Reese Witherspoon]

Hey all the bookmark listeners out there. I am so excited because I have a new novel coming out. What am I talking about? It's my very first novel. It's called Gone Before Goodbye.

[Danielle Robay]

Reese's book, co authored by Harlan Coben, is live in the world today. So here's a little background. Maggie McCabe is a brilliant but very troubled surgeon and she's given a second chance at her career and jumps at it. But she's thrown into this secretive world of plastic surgery for the elite and she quickly realizes that all of this is not what it seems. And when her patients start disappearing, she may need to run too, before she's also gone before goodbye. Now, we may or may not have a live interview with Reese coming your way. But until then, these two co authors wanted to share an exclusive and little peek.

[Reese Witherspoon]

This book, you guys, has been in my head for four years. So the fact that it's actually out of my brain and onto paper and bound in a book and that people can hold it in their hands or go to the bookstore or listen to the audiobook is such a dream come true, I can't even tell you. It's one of the things I'm most proud of in my life because it was really challenging. But I want to just tell you a little bit about how it came about. I thought a lot about this character. I kind of got the idea for a character and I thought, oh, am I going to make this into a movie? But I thought no. Wouldn't it be cool if I was part of a book and writing this book and bringing the whole world to life, not just this character. So I approached my friend Harlan Coben, who's an incredible best selling thriller author and I'm sure you guys know all of his novels, but he's just one of my favorite thriller writers and he heard the idea and he was like, this is really good. And so we started collaborating right there that minute. So it's been a two year process of us thinking about it and working on this book and getting together and writing notes to each other. And here it is. And I cannot believe it. Oh, I have to tell you, one of my favorite parts of the book is the tattoo. And I can't say too much about it. You see the description of the tattoo kind of early, but when it comes back in the novel, every single one of my friends who has read an early copy of the book text me when they see the tattoo part and they're like, the tattoo, oh my God. And I know it's so good, so wait till you get to that part. It blows your mind.

[Danielle Robay]

Hey, Danielle, this is Harlan Coben. I can't wait for the part where people take Gone Before Goodbye to bed at around 10:30, 11:00 clock at night and say, oh, I'm just going to read for 10 or 15 minutes and the next thing you know it's 4 or 5 in the morning and you've read all night and you're deliriously happy and a little bleary eyed and the story of Maggie McCabe and Porkchop and Nadia and the rest of them just stayed with you and you had to finish it up and you were deeply moved by the ending. That's what I'm looking forward to. So I hope you guys pick up a copy of Gone Before Goodbye. I loved writing it and I just.

[Reese Witherspoon]

Hope you guys love this character, Maggie McCabe, as much as I enjoyed creating her. I think it's really going to be a fun read for you and I can't wait to hear your thoughts. Let me know.

[Danielle Robay]

I don't know if I'm supposed to say this, but I'm going to say it anyways because this is our space. I got my hands on one of the 50 advance reader copies and I devoured it in a single night. I've never read a story quite like this. The straddling between the two worlds feels timely and timeless all at once. And then just when I thought I had the ending figured out, boom, the twist completely shocked me. I cannot wait for you to all read Gone Before Goodbye so that we can kiki about every juicy detail. Go grab your copy right now and then let's meet back here at the end of the month to talk about all of the twists and turns. I want to know if you figured it out before I did. Okay, more about that at the end of the month. And now it's time for Malala. There's a reason so many iconic songs are about reintroduction. One of my favorites is Jay Z's public service announcement. Allow me to reintroduce myself. My name is Hov. I promise I'm not gonna rap here. I also love Amy Winehouse's Back to Black. She sings that line, we only said goodbye with words. I died a hundred times. Some stories are placed upon us by the world, by our parents, our friends, our circumstances. But the most powerful ones, they're the stories we claim for ourselves. And that's exactly what Malala does in her new memoir, Finding My Way.

[Malala Yousafzai]

When you are told you are a hero, you are like, well, maybe, maybe this is something that I'm expected to live up to now. And you have to prove yourself worthy of this attention so much that I thought, like, okay, you cannot be a normal person anymore. I feel like I needed time, I needed the exposure. I needed to meet people. I needed to be there by myself to figure out who I was. And I'm so happy to be this young woman who I am today.

[Danielle Robay]

Memoirs are one of my favorite genres because they let you step inside somebody else's life in a way that is so intimate, so vulnerable, and really unpolished. When a writer really goes there, when they let you in on the messy, the complicated, the contradictions, the embarrassing, even, you don't just know them better, you catch glimpses of yourself in their story. Isn't that wild how somebody else's life, no matter how different, can suddenly feel familiar? So before Malala reintroduces herself to you today, let's remember the version of her the world has held onto. At 15, she was shot in the head by the Taliban for daring to fight for girls education in Pakistan. Overnight, she became a global symbol, admired, celebrated, but often defined by others expectations. Yet Malala has said that public version never fully captured who she was inside. A teenager who wanted to be silly and rebellious and free. In her memoir, she lets us in candidly on how her true self took shape during her college years at Oxford. The friendships, the mental health struggles, the crushes, the late night essays, the fashion missteps, junk food binges, and the complicated pull of family. This conversation isn't just about Malala reclaiming her story. It's also about what happens when any of us decide to peel back the labels that the world has given us. So let's turn the page today and meet Malala Yousafzai on her terms. Malala, welcome to the club.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Oh, this is an honor. I'm such a big fan. Thank you for this opportunity.

[Danielle Robay]

Thank you. The honor is all mine. And all ours. You are really a feminist icon. You survived an assassination attempt by the Taliban and then you went on to become the youngest Nobel Laureate Peace Prize. You've graced the COVID of British Vogue, you've spoken to world leaders, you've been immortalized as a Barbie. And the Malala Fund that you started has given over $65 million in funds to support education around the world. And yet this book, you newest memoir, is just about a girl, a 20 year old girl finding her way, who thought Malala would be relatable.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I think that's why I wanted to share this story, because this is the bio you come across. Malala is an activist and she's doing all of these things and even when I look at, I'm like, wow, she must have figured it all out. But I wanted to share more about what this journey has been like for me. And I wanted to share more about my college experience, my love life, my activism, all of it, my mental health, so that people can get a true picture of who I am as a person. So this is the most personal reflections I have ever shared. And this is me reintroducing myself.

[Danielle Robay]

It is deeply personal. I told you off camera that I was a little bit shocked at how honest you got in every single realm. Why did you feel like now was the right time to write the book?

[Malala Yousafzai]

It's hard to know when it's the right time. I think when I reflected on how my life had been in college, and there's so many events happened in college that changed me. When I think about the Malala who entered on day one to college, to the one who graduated, they were completely different people. And if I hadn't had that opportunity, I don't think I would have really grown as a person. I think the growth element is so important because if you are stuck in one bubble, in one zone, you sort of remain as you are. And I found it really, really hard because for me, all of these, like conferences and speeches and all of the work and just being like a lonely student and just being around like, you know, my parents and maybe under their surveillance was really hard. And I thought, maybe this is going to be my life forever. But in college I had this opportunity for the first time where I felt nobody was watching. I was away from family, no work, people around me, and I could do things. I was like, okay, like, am I allowed? Can I? Should I? I was like, why not? But I'm so grateful that I went to college because that's where I was a free soul. And I learned so much about myself. I think I learned less from the books, and I learned more from the exposure I had just to friends and these experiences, like doing crazy things and. And learning just more about who I was. That's the textbook that I wanted to read.

[Danielle Robay]

What are the crazy things? Because you've mentioned reckless and crazy a few times already.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yes. So, okay, let me share this one story.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay.

[Malala Yousafzai]

In college, I told myself not to think twice. And I remember one time, like, this student had no idea who he was, said that, oh, there's this thing called roof climbing at Oxford, and you must join me to have that experience. So my recent college friend and I were thinking about it, and we're like, okay, like, should we? Should we not? And I was like, I think I'm up for it. I want to know what's out there that other people are experiencing. These young people are experiences that I have not seen, and maybe I'll never see it if I, like, you know, complete my university and go back to my old life. So I said, yes. I was like, yes, I'm gonna climb the college rooftop with you. And so I showed up at, like, midnight. My friend was with me, and she stepped back, actually. She was like, you know, like, I don't think we should do it. I was like, okay, but I'm gonna go anyway. And it's a very scary journey because you are on, like, the fourth or fifth floor of the college building, and you are about to climb the bell tower, and it's so scary, like, step you are going to fall, and you have to jump across to the other floor. It's really hard to describe it, but it is such an adventure. Just the feeling that you are somehow making it through every step. And then you are finally on the rooftop, and you can see the bell tower, and you are in this world that not everybody can access right now. And I was like, wow, I think I'm part of the rebellious college kids right now, and I'm doing something that nobody else has done. And there was this moment where I connected with myself. I felt a sense of ease, a sense of finding, like, my soul. It's just really hard to describe, but I will never forget.

[Danielle Robay]

Alive, Felt alive.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Like, I'll never forget those feelings. So that was just, like, one moment. I had, like, many more.

[Danielle Robay]

I can imagine there's some that are not safe for work, and those are. Those are good, private stories. But, you know, I was kind of struck by this dichotomy that you're sharing of your private life and your Public life. And you really kind of lay it out perfectly on the first page. Would you read it for us?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah, of course. I'd love to.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. Effy.

[Malala Yousafzai]

I'll never know who I was supposed to be. Maybe everyone feels that way, curious about the invisible crossroads in their lives, the wrong turns and chance encounters that change everything. But I am haunted by it. The gulf between how I imagined my life and what it became. I can't escape the feeling that a giant hand plucked me out of one story and dropped me into an entirely new one. On a mild October afternoon, a bullet changed the trajectory of my life, cutting me off from my home, my friends, and everything I loved, spinning me out into an unfamiliar world. At 15 years old, I hadn't had time to figure out who I wanted to be when suddenly everyone wanted to tell me who I was. An inspiration, a hero, an activist. But also a wallflower, a punching bag, a paycheck. To my parents, I was an obedient daughter. To my friends, a good listener. When I was alone, I unraveled. Because the hardest thing to be was myself.

[Danielle Robay]

The first time I read that, I got really emotional at that last line. And if I'm being honest, I think what you're touching on is so universal for women in particular. In your early adulthood, if you're lucky, you have this moment of self actualization. And the road that follows is difficult but worth it. And you're sort of standing in one place with this chasm of who you are and who you want to be. And you can see her, and you're fighting for her.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yes.

[Danielle Robay]

Mine started when a guy dumped me on a Beach at 27.

[Malala Yousafzai]

These guys seriously causing all world problems.

[Danielle Robay]

Right. And last year when I interviewed Reese Witherspoon, she was talking about in her 20s when she had it, and she started just reading all these nonfiction books. And that really helped her. What did it look like for you? What was the unraveling?

[Malala Yousafzai]

For me, the unraveling was letting myself have the exposure and reminding myself that it's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to not get it right. It's okay to. To get into trouble. That is all part of the experience. I had always put this pressure on myself that somehow I have to know it all or I can't get it wrong. And I am answerable to my parents and my community, and somehow there's this expectation of me. But in college time, I reminded myself that it's okay to be you. And, you know, if you redefine yourself, if you find yourself in a Different place like, that is still a part of you. And my life changed completely. I'm so glad that I prioritized other things other than just sticking to reading books. I know I promote education, but I just could not imagine being in a library and not really hanging out with my friends and having that exposure. So I remember, like, one day I was in the library, and I had a lot to read and do an assignment, but I watched outside the window, and I saw all of my friends were just chatting and laughing, and I was like, I just want to be there. I just want to go and join them. Closed my book, and off I went.

[Danielle Robay]

And you headed out?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yes, But I think there's always just so much happening in college, and I wanted to be a part of everything.

[Danielle Robay]

Do you remember the first time that somebody called you a hero?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Oh, like 11 years old. And people are calling you a hero because you are an activist and people are admiring that you are sharing your story at 15. Because they thought that I took a bullet and I survived. And I still wanted to speak for my right to education and other girls. Right to education. That that was making me a hero. And I'm like, fine. Yes. Like, that is all a part of me. I'm not saying I'm not an activist, and I don't do any of that. But what I unlearned along the way was that we have very wrong expectations about what a hero should look like. That doesn't mean that they no longer have a normal life so much that they are not themselves anymore. So it's. You know, it might feel like I am exaggerating it when I talk about, like, making friends and having these experiences or staying up late just chatting with friends about astrology and boys and gossip and, you know, like, what's your sign? Cancer. You are?

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. Oh, I'm a Capricorn, so we're good together. Yeah, that's very good.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Capricorn is.

[Danielle Robay]

I love Capricorns and I love cancer. You guys are emotional and bring that out.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Very emotional. But I think. I don't know if my sign explains it, but I just loved being around my friends, and I was there for them, and I really cared how I made them feel. Cancers have this more motherly, nurturing personality. So maybe it is my star signs in the end.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, you talk about in the book, this group of friends at Oxford, and I can imagine that finding these women were so important to you, because what a lot of people don't know about your story is as soon as you were shot, you were Stripped away from everything you knew as well you were in another country. Like you weren't ever going back to the life or the people you knew. So you find these girls and how did they help you in this self actualization journey?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah, so I've made many friends at Oxford, but I just want to like share the story of like meeting one friend. Cora was one of the first few girls I met and she was studying the same subject as me, philosophy, politics and economics. And like when I bumped into her, I introduced myself, she told me what she is studying and all of that. We were chatting about the next essay, we were chatting about our tutors and how we are finding the work so far. It was about our plans for the next day. And I realized immediately that she is the right one because she didn't ask me about the attack, she didn't ask me about the Nobel Peace Prize or something. She just didn't care what else I was doing outside. All she cared about was that I was her friend at college and I was a fellow student and we were just going to be buddies now. And like never ever any of these people who I met like brought it up or like randomly asked me. And I love that because of course this is a part of me and I cannot remove it from myself. But I also wanted to grow, I wanted to learn like more about who I am beyond all of these stories that happened like long time ago in my life so that I have like more stories to me and these friends help you have those stories. So Cora was amazing. You know, we. We would go to lectures together, we would do assignments together. And whenever I was struggling with my essays, she would share her notes with me.

[Danielle Robay]

But you know, I could tell you that for me in my 20s and now 30s, even more so. My girlfriends make me feel normal because I'm like, is this crazy? Is this weird that I said this? A guy said this? Is that normal? Did you have that?

[Malala Yousafzai]

It's good to have a variety of friends because to some friends you tell something and you're like, am I crazy? And they're like, no, you're not crazy at all, but you are crazy. And then there are other friends who are like, you are crazier than you think. And let me tell you, let me be honest with you. So I love the combination because sometimes you just need that support, somebody who tells you it's okay, you are fine. And at other times you do need somebody to be a bit honest with you. And I think I have a mix of all of them. Like Alice who I talk about in the book. She is very open, she's blunt. She doesn't care. She's like, let me tell you how you got it wrong. You should not be talking to this guy. Or like, like, why would you do this? And the other friends who are there were like, it's okay. Like, everything is going to be fine. If you're struggling with something, we'll figure out a way. And it was, you know, my friends who helped me in the time when I was going through, you know, mental health struggles.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I really want to ask you about that, but I. I do have to ask you first about the other words on that page, because you wrote a wallflower, a punching bag, a paycheck. You look sad when I said that.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah, this was a part of my life. You know, when you are in the public eye, people have opinions about you, people have expectations. But at the same time, I had my own personal life where I had to look after my family. And Suddenly, like, at 15, I was supposed to be earning for the family. We had moved to a different place, but my dad's job had changed. He was a school teacher in Pakistan. And now we're in a new place, and it's like, you know, okay, so I'm signing a book deal and then I'm doing, like, this documentary, so we'll get some money from that. And then I'm doing speaking engagements. So I had to be open about that as well. That, you know, it's not like we can survive of nothing. That I had to also, you know, get an income and take care of my family and our relatives and a lot of people in Pakistan as well.

[Danielle Robay]

Wow.

[Malala Yousafzai]

And it was hard, and it was affecting my studies because it meant I was traveling during my university time. So I remember there was this one week where I had agreed to go to three countries in a week or so.

[Danielle Robay]

Wow.

[Malala Yousafzai]

So I was in Lebanon. I was in Switzerland at Davos, and then I was in Monaco for a private, like, paid speaking engagement. And I was so behind in my assignments that my senior tutor called me to her office and she said, we need to talk. So I was explaining to her these events are really important because it's about advocacy for girls education. And it is true, some of the gatherings that I did had a huge impact. Apple committed to support Malala Fund's work, and we have been helping millions of girls through that. And at Davos, that meeting with the Canadian Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau helped us unlock, like, billions of dollars for girls education. So they do make a Huge change. But at the same time, like, I just could not get away with missing my assignments. And it was hard to explain to my senior tutor why I had to go for a paid speaking event. I just could not. I could not tell her. So I was like, okay, maybe I need to change things. But it was only when I took my first, like, big exams in university, the first year exams, and I did poorly, like, it was bad performance, I nearly failed it, that my senior tutor was like, okay, I think we got to do something about it. So I was like, okay, I wouldn't travel during university time, but that's another part of me, right? I have to do work, I have to make money, I have to do activism.

[Danielle Robay]

And I appreciate your honesty. I think a lot of people conflate fame with money, too. And so here you are being so well known and. And people just think probably you're raking in the dough, when really, it's a lot to juggle and you have a lot of people you're responsible for.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah, I think my life just took a different turn, and I didn't plan that. I didn't expect that. So for me, I had to adjust to it. I'm like, okay, now we are in this place. So how do we adjust to this new life?

[Microsoft Defender Mom (Advertiser Voice)]

When my son started playing games online, I thought the biggest worry would be screen time. But then I realized it's not just fun and games out there. There are scams, viruses, even people trying to steal his info before he's old enough for social media. I'll be honest, I felt overwhelmed. I didn't know where to start. And the last thing I wanted was to download five different apps I'd forget to use. Then a friend told me about Microsoft Defender. Now I've got one app that covers my devices. It scans for viruses, blocks phishing scams, and even watches for threats to our personal info. And the best part, it doesn't make me feel like I have to be a tech expert. With Defender, I finally feel like I've got backup online so I can stop worrying about hackers and go back to worrying about the everyday stuff, like whether he ate enough veggies today. To learn more, visit microsoft365.com defender Today's.

[Danielle Robay]

Episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands, but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the Legacy and the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton joggers or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak. A story that spans generations. Forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything, wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. The fabric of our lives. Learn more at thefabricofourlives.com Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress, get great recommendations for your next read, or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple co reeseapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current pick and browse past selections. Today on Apple Books, people called them murderers.

[Chris Pine]

Ten years later they were gods. Today no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild west of American Medicine. I'm Chris Pine and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart pounding thrillers, you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[Danielle Robay]

You listen to podcasts sponsored by Jasper AI built for marketers. I want to talk about a different way of self identifying because in the book you mention WWE and you mention it twice, which is twice more than I was expecting. Malala yes, I'm not a big WWE person, so I looked some stuff up. John Cena was known as the prototype. Dwayne the Rock Johnson, of course was Known as the Rock. And that really stuck.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yes.

[Danielle Robay]

Does Malala have a secret wrestling name?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Not yet, but I think I did a lot of wrestling with my brothers. So I have two younger brothers. And, like, as kids. No, it was actually, like, a WWE experience. The bed would become the wrestling, like, the ring. And me, my brothers, we would be, like, quarreling and fighting all the time. I just love doing that. And, you know, doing the John Cena move in the end, you can't see me.

[Danielle Robay]

Wait, what is it?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Did you not know this? John Cena had this, like. There's. It's called you can't see me.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay.

[Malala Yousafzai]

You can't see me. And he would just do this, like. Like this, like, he would, like, punch you, and then, you know, you just couldn't, like, see. You couldn't move. And then you'd be like, you can't see me. I don't know. Why am I explaining this?

[Danielle Robay]

That's funny.

[Malala Yousafzai]

That's a big deal. It's. John Cena has been, like, my favorite, favorite wrestler ever. And I thought wrestling was all real. I found out much later that it wasn't. Yes. Scripted. Yeah, Like, I would be rooting for him, but I knew a lot of, like, I knew Rey Mysterio and Triple H and all of these guys.

[Danielle Robay]

Are you a face or a heel?

[Malala Yousafzai]

What does that mean?

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, so I looked this up. Malala. Okay, so a face is, like, the hero, and a heel is the villain.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Faith.

[Danielle Robay]

You have to be a faith, right?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, bear with me while I give you this crazy armchair theory. Okay, But I was reading that in your first book that your full name, and correct me if I'm mispronouncing, is Malalai of Mawan, a famous Pashtun, which is a heroine known as the Joan of Arc of Afghanistan.

[Malala Yousafzai]

So I was named after her, right? Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

And your dad said he wanted you to be courageous and fearless like her.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yes.

[Danielle Robay]

That feels almost like a name prophecy. That's wild.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah, it is crazy. And my dad has, like, been this role model to me growing up because he was an exceptional father and an exceptional man in that community of patriarchy. So I knew my life was different because I had an amazing father, and I knew, like, a lot of my friends, all of those girls could have a different life if their fathers and brothers and the men were supportive in their community. So I have admired my father deeply my whole life. But as I got older, I realized that I had not actually thought about the role of my mother and how exceptional she has been in my life. In ways that I didn't see. Like, I didn't see her. Like, it's just so hard to explain, but somehow, like, my mom was invisible in my own story that I could not see her. And when I got older and when I was in university and when I started thinking about marriage and these kind of things, I suddenly looked towards my mom and asked myself, like, oh, my goodness, like, who's this incredible woman? And how did she decide to marry this guy like my father? And how was she ready to move to a different place and restart her life? Because I have, like a thousand questions about marriage. I want to know from my mom how she felt as a woman. So this mother daughter connection suddenly became so strong. My mom and I still are figuring out how to get along well, and she still tells me off for, like, not wearing the clothes that she wants me to wear. And it's been a whole, like, you know, journey. I share a lot of that in the book, so that's.

[Danielle Robay]

You share a lot of it in the book.

[Malala Yousafzai]

So in this book, like my father, I have made him more into, like a side. Small character.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Malala Yousafzai]

And it's my mom because I see her more. I see her a lot more.

[Danielle Robay]

It's interesting because you've had a lot of opportunities that your mom didn't have. And so there does. It feels like there's this gulf between the two of you. From what I understand, your mom at one point could not even read or write, right?

[Malala Yousafzai]

No.

[Danielle Robay]

So, like, here you are, this ambassador of education. I can't even imagine the disconnect. And you speak about it pretty honestly and honestly, sometimes brutally.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah. So my mom never went to school. And growing up, I wanted to be like my dad. And I knew that I never want to be like my mom. I was like an uneducated woman. No. And not having any career. No. But as I got older, I realized that without an education, they have been so resilient in finding their way through all of these obstacles, all of these difficulties. My mom is a very strong person. She has been there for me at times when I just couldn't even, like, see and acknowledge and thank her. She's still a tough moment. I remember when we were packing for university, she had a. She was like, putting in all the Pakistani traditional clothes, Shalwar Kameez. And I was taking them out and putting in, like, jumpers or, like sweaters and cardigans and jeans. And I would look up on Google, Selena Gomez Casual Wear 2017. Like, what is trending right now? Because I want to blend in. I want to be like any other student. Why is my mom making me stand out as a Pakistani? But for her, it was the culture. It was our traditions, and what would the men in our community think about me? And she just never wanted women's independence in girls education to be seen as a threat to the community. And I understood it from her perspective, I think, a bit later, because I realized that my mom and women from her time had fought for these things, like protecting them from violence. And my mom always said that she was so blessed that her husband, like my dad, was such a supportive guy. I'm like, every guy should be a supportive guy as a husband. But for her, no, this was an exception. And she had, like, protected so many women from being beaten up or being harassed or raped. And she even saved this girl's life when I was a child and this girl was raped, and my mom took her for an abortion, and she saved her life. And if you ask my mom for her opinions, I think she would, you know, she would not say whatever we think is, like, politically correct right now. But for me, it was more her actions that spoke louder. And I know she's a very strong person. And whenever she tells me something, she's coming from a point of view where she wants to protect me, but I'm telling her, like, no, my fight is slightly different. And I want to break some rules, and I want to redefine these norms for women and girls. But, yeah, in the end, we love each other.

[Danielle Robay]

So when I interview people, they'll tell me some of the most personal things. And they're brave, and they're so courageous, and I'm always honored that they feel comfortable telling me. And then after the interview, sometimes they'll call and say, hey, I said this thing about my mom. Can you take that out? Everything else, they leave. But this is my question to you, because I'm not going to read this whole quote. I want people to read the book. But you describe your relationship with your mom and who she is, the amazing part of who she is, and then the very difficult part, so much so that sometimes she would punish you physically. You said you felt short of her standards. She has not read the book yet?

[Malala Yousafzai]

No.

[Danielle Robay]

Are you nervous about how she's going to receive it and about your honesty?

[Malala Yousafzai]

So we talked about star signs, and I think my mom is a Scorpio. We don't know her exact date of birth, but I asked her about the season and the timing, and I figured it out that it was around October and November. And she's a Scorpio, so she's very firm in her beliefs. And if she sees this book and she has a problem with something, I think she'll be like, yeah, like, so what's wrong with what I said? I am right. Yeah. Like, for example, you know, the one story I share in this book. Book. I think I might be giving too many spoilers, but that's okay. Is when it's like, finally, it's the wedding day now. Like, we're. We're getting so close. And I have made the decision. I am ready to marry the love of my life. And we were trying on the dresses we were going to wear the next day. And my mom looked at Asar's dress and his shoes, and my mom was like, why doesn't he have new shoes? These are an old pair of shoes. Initially, I was like, yeah, this dress looks fine. Everything looks fine. But as soon as my mom said it, I felt like it just got into my head, and I was like, yeah. Does he not love me? Does he not care about me? Why would he not buy, like, a new pair of shoes? And is this not a big day for him? And I feel like such a villain right now when I tell this story. I'm like, how could I even think.

[Danielle Robay]

Like, that You're a heel.

[Malala Yousafzai]

But I started, like, texting him, and I was, like, chatting with him, and I was like, you just don't understand and all of that. And he was like, no. Like, he would then explain his whole, like, financial issues and all of that. And he had moved to it, you know, I had moved him to a different country and, like, made him, like, leave his job and all of that. Yeah. And he was just suddenly opened up about his family background and everything. But that's, like, not the important part. The important part was how my mom was sticking to what she thought was right. And the next day, like, I put on my wedding dress, everything. I opened my phone, and I don't know, he had just, like, forgiven me. He had moved on. And he had said, like, you know, I can't wait. Like, you know, we're getting married and all of that. Because the night before, I thought, maybe it's over, but.

[Danielle Robay]

Did you really?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah, I was like, maybe, but he is such an amazing person. Like, I don't know how you moved on. I said, like, I'm so sorry. Forget about all of that. I'm so excited to marry you as well, that I found out, like, my mom had still brought him a new pair of shoes.

[Danielle Robay]

She Sounds like a great mom.

[Malala Yousafzai]

It's tricky. It's difficult to work with her. So you either give up or you just don't argue.

[Danielle Robay]

The clothing aspect is a big part of your book you wrote. To me, they weren't just clothes, they were camouflaged. To me, that signals this tightrope that a lot of first gen kids have where they're trying to honor traditions of their culture and honor their parents and also express themselves and assimilate to a new culture they want to be a part of too. What was the process for choosing what you were wearing on the COVID of your book?

[Malala Yousafzai]

You know what, I had a whole stylist and everything, but I told her that for me, it's my headscarf that is a huge part of my identity and I want to carry that as a symbol. So. And I said, I like pink and these colors, so work around that. And it just worked out really well.

[Danielle Robay]

Malala, I love to ask all of our guests what they've bookmarked this week.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay]

It can be a quote, a text you sent a friend, something on Instagram. What have you bookmarked?

[Malala Yousafzai]

So I was at this event recently and I met one of my favorite authors, Zadie Smith. And that is bookmarked in my head now. I just cannot get over that. I saw her. She is stunning. She is extraordinary. And I mean, like Zadie Smith, you meet Zadie Smith finally. So that was just amazing.

[Danielle Robay]

She was probably so excited to meet you too.

[Malala Yousafzai]

No, I was more excited.

[Danielle Robay]

Before we take a quick break, I have even more book news to share with all of you. Reese's Book Club is now on WhatsApp. I've been looking for a way to communicate with you all more directly and. And this is it. So when you join our WhatsApp channel, you can stay up to date with the latest Reese's Book Club news, the exclusive author content, the latest podcast episodes, voice notes, including from me, and the opportunity to read along with us all month long. And there's even more ways to connect. Okay, from IRL to URL. So you can join Reese's Book Club Community City Chapters to chat with readers in your area. If you're located in LA, New York, Nashville, Charleston, or St. Louis, you can find your new book besties and engage in fun conversations around our monthly picks. And it's super easy. So to join us, download WhatsApp and find Reese's Book Club in the updates tab. Okay, we'll be right back with more. Malala Yousafzai.

[Microsoft Defender Mom (Advertiser Voice)]

When my son started playing games online, I thought the biggest worry would be screen time. But then I realized it's not just fun and games out there. There are scams, viruses, even people trying to steal his info before he's old enough for social media. I'll be honest, I felt overwhelmed. I didn't know where to start and the last thing I wanted was to download five different apps I'd forget to use. Then a friend told me about Microsoft Defender. Now I've got one app that covers my devices. It scans for viruses, blocks phishing scams, and even watches for threats to our personal info. And the best part? It doesn't make me feel like I have to be a tech expert with Defender, I finally feel like I've got backup online so I can stop worrying about hackers and go back to worrying about the everyday stuff, like whether he ate enough veggies today. To learn more, visit microsoft365.com defender Today's.

[Danielle Robay]

Episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton joggers or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak, A story that spans generations, forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more at thefabricofourlives.com Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to, or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple co reeseapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current Pick and browse past selections. Today on Apple Books.

[Chris Pine]

People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open heart surgery. Welcome to the wild west of American medicine. Listen, I'm Chris Pine and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart pounding thrillers, you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[Danielle Robay]

You listen to podcasts sponsored by Jasper AI built for marketers. Another thing that first gen kids struggle with is conversations with their parents around mental health. And there's a part in your book that I am personally very grateful that you included. Yeah, you describe losing your mind in pieces the last year of college through the support that you found and therapy. How do you understand what happened in that senior year?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yeah, so I had my first panic attack in college and it was seven and eight years after the incident had happened where I was shot. And when I think about this whole time, I think like I had recovered from a bullet and I had healed. So for me I thought like, we have closed that chapter, I have moved on and this mental health thing will never be part of my life because I would be the last person to get it because of what I have overcome. And many, many years later, now I'm in college and I'm like, I have friends and life just feels happy and all seems normal. And I remember it was late at night, I was struggling with my economics assignment that a friend texted me and called me, hey, do you want to hang out in the college gardens? And I was like, yeah, sure, why not?

[Danielle Robay]

And.

[Malala Yousafzai]

And maybe she might give me her notes, who knows? And that could help me in my assignment. So I showed up. It was just, you know, some friends and they were trying a bong. So bong was something I was seeing for the first time. I had never seen it before and smoking weed is very common in college. So they said, oh, do you want to try it? And I was like, no, it's okay. But I was like, okay, one puff. I coughed. They were like, just one more try. I was like, okay, Last one. On the second attempt, I inhaled it. And I felt it just went immediately into my body. And I couldn't process time anymore. That was a turning point. Like, my world changed completely. I could not move. I felt I just froze. And immediately I started getting these flashbacks of the attack. I could see the gunman. I could feel like I was maybe in the afterlife. Maybe I was dead. Maybe I was about to die. I just could not feel the senses anymore. I was like, I don't know what to do. Should I scream? I want to run. I want to get out of this. And I could not. I think it's the helplessness in that moment that really shocks you, how just time freezes and you are helpless. I don't know how I made it through the night. After that, things changed. Like, I was. I was never the same person again. And even to this day, I don't feel like I can be that person from. From the past. Like, you know, you can never be now. This is the new you. You have to accept. I wanted it to disappear magically. I was like, can I just make this vanish? Because I was so strong yesterday, like, it was all fine. Why did this happen? My friends helped me initially. They were like, we know you're going through a difficult time. You don't have to tell me. You don't have to tell us everything, but we know you're going through a difficult time. So they were doing sleepovers in my bedroom because I could not fall asleep. I would be shaking and shivering, and I could hear my heartbeat. And every time I would close my eyes, I thought I was just gonna about to drown or die or like, you know, fall into, like, deep or something. And friends did everything. For me, to be honest, my family, that was a tricky part because I tried to bring it up. And I noticed immediately that my mom and my dad just, like, sort of were, like, panicking a bit. And they were like, what do you mean? And then I just shut my mouth. I was like, okay. I don't think I can talk to them about. Just because they just are saying, like, stay away from all the troubles and why are you causing these problems? I was like, they won't understand. They won't understand that I need support. I need something. I need to talk to somebody about it. And then in the end, one friend of mine from college told me about a therapist. And this was like, many months later because I kept on having these panic attacks, these flashbacks, the trauma, and it was too much in the end that it was just, like, affecting everything. In my life, from my time with my friends to my assignments, to my, like, everything is just all around you. You cannot escape from it. She told me that it's quite normal for students to see therapists. And that's when my mental health therapy journey began.

[Danielle Robay]

Thanks for sharing that. How do you feel now?

[Malala Yousafzai]

I feel much better now. I remember my first therapy session, and I told the therapist everything, and I was like, now give me the medication. Fix it. I realized it takes a lot of time. She helped me understand that we have to embrace it, accept it, take it all in. And she also helped me understand how thoughts, emotions, feelings, and actions are all separate. We should not be too worried about falling into a spiral and feeling trapped. She also gave me breathing techniques like, you know, breathing. Breathing in for seven seconds and breathing out for 11 seconds, and just like, putting your hand on your chest and just like being with yourself. And I also changed the way I live my life now. I try to go outdoors more, go for a walk, eat well, sleep well, run. Running has helped me so much, play new sports. These things were affecting my work before when I wasn't doing them right, and it was a big part of my mental health. But when you work on them, you realize that they are a good way to like. It's like a preventative care.

[Danielle Robay]

You have this big toolbox now.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yes. And I think the most important thing is to know that you can ask for help. Go ask for help. And for those around you who you think might need help, like, be there.

[Danielle Robay]

For them in the book, because of this, you really take us back into your life after the shooting and. And you say that people really wanted to know about your pain. And there's this quote that I want to read back to you. You describe it as. It made me feel like a butterfly with a straight pin through its heart, forever trapped under dusty glass. In the months after the attack and the years you were doing so much media and all of these speeches, people were asking you the same questions over and over again. I saw it in all the interviews. What do you think they were missing? What did you feel that they weren't tapped into? And what do you wish they'd been asking you?

[Malala Yousafzai]

I think in my exposure to media for such a long time at such a young age, made me somehow accept it as a part of my life. And when you are told you are a hero, you're like, oh, maybe this is something that I'm expected to live up to now. I thought it wasn't just the pressure from people that I was Feeling I internally had told myself that you have to now live up to it and you have to prove yourself worthy of this attention so much that I thought, like, okay, you cannot be a normal person anymore. Like love. No, forget about it. This injury has affected your facial symmetry. Move on. You know, like, these things are never going to be a part of your life. Friends, no. You're going to be in busy places and you're not supposed to have friends. These things are a thing of the past. Like before you were 15 and you could never be a child anymore. So when I, you know, and if this is how your life is, I'm like, I can't fully blame the journalists because they're like, okay, I guess that's who you are now. You are showing up like you are getting the prizes and the titles. What else are we supposed to ask you? Like, what are you going to do with your life? Or how are you going to advocate for this, this and this? Or what do you say to the Taliban? Or what do you say to the gunmen who attacked when. These kind of questions that. I feel like I needed time, I needed the exposure, I needed to meet people. I needed to be there by myself to figure out who I was. And I'm so happy to be this young woman who I am today. And I know that there are so many things that I haven't figured out yet, but I feel okay. I feel that I'll find my way through it. So that's why I wanted to reintroduce myself in this new book. Because I think this will give people some guidance on what questions to ask me. Not the boring old ones, but new questions, fun ones. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

If your younger self could, say the one that you wrote about in the book who used to want to be a mechanic, how would she feel about you? What would you say to her about finding her way?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Oh, my goodness. I think she would be so proud of her. She would be like, thank goodness, you know, so much pressure. Thank goodness that you took your time and you. You experienced things, you. You made friends, you're happier, you found love. That is shocking. I thought you were never gonna get married. I thought we had agreed on that. What else are you gonna do, you know? Yeah. So I think she will be surprised. She would be happy. She would be excited and thrilled. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, we're gonna do a quick speed re round.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay]

So 60 seconds on the clock. Rapid fire questions. Are you ready?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Yes.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. What book do you wish you could read for the first time again?

[Malala Yousafzai]

The Twilight series.

[Danielle Robay]

What's Your favorite book to recommend Trevor.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Nova's Born a Crime.

[Danielle Robay]

What's the most surreal conversation you've had with a world leader behind closed doors?

[Malala Yousafzai]

So one official diplomat meeting, and I won't disclose much information, but they were telling me how it's okay and much better for women now in Afghanistan under the Taliban. And I told them back that if you take all the women from your family to Afghanistan, like, would you feel comfortable for them? And then they had no answer. Yeah. So I was like, that's not a country where women have a future.

[Danielle Robay]

What's a tradition or ritual from home that you still carry with you wherever you go?

[Malala Yousafzai]

Drinking tea, offering tea to others. It's amazing.

[Danielle Robay]

What do you call your husband? Do you call him a pet name?

[Malala Yousafzai]

I call him a lot of pet names, and then some of those pet names offend him.

[Danielle Robay]

Offend him?

[Malala Yousafzai]

What do you mean? Like, you know, the cheeky pet names that you call them. And then he's like, don't call me that. I'm like, I will call you that. I come up with, like, weird names like my bubblegum, you know, my sweetheart, or like my John Cena. That's funny. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

You can't see me. You can see me.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Who said that? I didn't say that. Neither did I. I'm not here.

[Danielle Robay]

Malala, thanks for being a part of our club.

[Malala Yousafzai]

Thank you.

[Danielle Robay]

I feel like you gave us this really special stamp. I'm grateful. And if you want a little bit more from us, come hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's Book Club on Instagram, serving up books, vibes, and behind the scenes magic. And I'm Danielle Robay. R O B A Y. Come say hi and DM me. And if you want to go 90s on us, call us. Okay. Our phone line is open, so call now at 1-501-291-3379. That's 1, 501-291-3379. Share your literary hot takes, book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode. So don't be shy, give us a ring. And of course, make sure to follow bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your shows. Until then, see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of hello Sunshine and iheart podcast. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and made me Danielle Robe. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Foley, Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schleed and Darby Masters. Our production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter are the executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla and Ashley Ra are associate producers for Reese's Book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hanson are the executive producers for iHeart podcasts. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something Cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn [e-mail] Every day I'm juggling a million things.

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[Danielle Robay]

You listen to podcasts sponsored by Jasper AI built for marketers, it's Anna Ortiz and I'm Markin Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Betty. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Becky. Yay.

[Malala Yousafzai]

We're rewatching the series from start to.

[Danielle Robay]

Finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama and the behind the scenes moments that you've never heard before, but.

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[Danielle Robay]

The bar back is like, is that you? And I turn around and it's a commercial for Betty. And I was like, I gotta go. I quit.

[Microsoft Defender Mom (Advertiser Voice)]

Listen to Viva Betty on the iHeartRadio.

[Danielle Robay]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Microsoft Defender Mom (Advertiser Voice)]

This is an iHeart podcast.