On today's episode, Vince welcomes back former DEA Special Agent in Charge Ray Donovan, the man who led the hunt for El Chapo, for a breakdown of where the hunt for Iván goes next, why the Chapitos can't survive the way their father did, and what the U.S. government's new whole-of-government strategy actually looks like from the inside.

Borderland is an IRONCLAD Original

Chapters:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:31 The Chapitos on the DEA's radar during the El Chapo case

(02:03) Why Iván is the last man standing in Sinaloa

(03:13) CJNG fractures and the battle for Sinaloa

(07:35) Iván vs. El Chapo: who's more dangerous?

(11:21) Sheinbaum's shift and the new U.S.–Mexico collaboration

(13:39) How the U.S. really took down El Mencho

(16:18) The CJNG power vacuum

(17:15) Iván Guzmán: public enemy number one

(31:37) How Ray would take down Iván today

(33:53) Hunting Iván vs. hunting El Chapo

(35:05) China, fentanyl precursors, and the financial side

(40:07) How cartels are using technology and social media

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