Borrowed Future – Ep 1: What No One Told You About Student Loans

Podcast: Borrowed Future
Host: Ramsey Network (George Camel et al.)
Date: September 30, 2019

Episode Overview

This opening episode of "Borrowed Future" drills into the heart of America's student loan crisis, examining how debt has become normalized, why so many end up overwhelmed, and the myths persuading millions of students to borrow money for college. The episode combines personal stories of debt, expert analysis, and practical discussions, raising the question: Is it possible to attend college debt free, and if so, how?

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Scale and Human Toll of Student Loans

• Personal Stories: A rapid-fire sequence of borrowers outlines staggering debts:

  • From $27,000 to over $600,000 (00:01–01:14)
  • Many did not complete degrees, or graduated in fields with low earning prospects
  • Debts often vastly outstrip incomes

• Cultural Normalization:

  • “The average student graduates with $35,000 in student loan debt with an average monthly payment of $393. If this sounds normal to you, it is.” – George Camel (01:21)
  • Student loans shape major life decisions, delaying home ownership, marriage, or financial independence

• Economic Impact:

  • “People with student loans are not buying houses, they're not buying cars, they don't even have bank accounts.” – Terry (03:00)
  • The ripple effect on broader U.S. economy and society

2. How Young People Are Guided Toward Debt

• Influence of Parents, Counselors, and Societal Messages:

  • Anthony O’Neal reflects on guidance received: “If you do not get a scholarship…we'll just take out some loans.” (06:00)
  • Students often lack alternatives in their planning, believing loans are the only path

• Lack of Financial Education:

  • “A recent survey... shows that four out of 10 people don't even think student loans are debt.” – George Camel (09:27)
  • College-bound teens rarely consider the ROI, actual debt loads, or long-term impact

3. Questioning the “Good Debt” Myth

• Expert Opinions on the Risks:

  • “To go and spend money that you don't have to maybe graduate is absolutely ludicrous.” – Dave Ramsey (10:20)
  • Many borrowers don’t finish their degrees, making return on investment uncertain
  • “Student loans are often said by people to be good debt, which is laughable.” – Dave Ramsey (10:37)

• Predatory Industry Measures:

  • The language “student” lends loans a false sense of safety
  • “There's just a range of predatory players who view the student loan crisis as their chance to make a quick buck.” – Seth Frotman (12:26)

4. The Student Mindset and Planning Gap

• High School Perspectives:

  • Many students (and parents) underestimate real costs and overestimate pay-off timelines
  • “I can likely get out of Virginia Tech with a bachelor's degree with only $40,000 in debt... probably only a year or two to pay it off.” – Ken Coleman (14:13)
  • Students think in terms of short-term needs, not lifelong repercussions

• Teacher Insight:

  • “They're not thinking much past what they're going to do with their money this weekend.” – Ken Coleman, on students’ day-to-day mindset (18:27)

5. Consequences of the “Default Path”

• Lack of Plans Equals Debt:

  • “Millions and millions of students every single year just walk into college experience and just quickly sign the student loan paper because they didn't have a plan, they didn't have a direction, they didn't have a vision.” – Anthony O’Neal (19:10)

• False Expectations:

  • Many believe that full-time work, scholarships, or grants will always fill the gap
  • When options run out, loans become the “default” (23:26–24:47)

• Interest and Debt Growth:

  • Example: $15,000 loan becomes $60,000 after years of payments due to interest – Terry (24:37)

6. Debunking Excuses and Highlighting Alternatives

• Challenging the “I Have No Choice” Narrative:

  • “Student loan debt has become so normalized in our culture because everyone is taking out loans. And we truly have believed this lie that you can't be a student without a student loan.” – Rachel Cruze (26:40)

• The Debt Cycle as Economic Trap:

  • Students start adult life “in the hole,” limiting freedom and career options
  • “You are starting your life off, on average, $36,000 in the hole…” – Rachel Cruze (27:14)

7. Is Debt-Free College Truly Possible?

• Expert Opinions:

  • “You can certainly go to college debt free. Absolutely.” – George Camel (29:01)
  • “There's a lot of different ways to approach college... With enough research, determination, scholarships, hard work, I absolutely believe it's possible…” – Ken Coleman (29:03)

• Practical Stories:

  • Rachel shares story of a student who applied to two scholarships a day, graduated debt free, and saved $4,000 (33:09)
  • “She did the work and now I'm on the other side of it and I actually have money.” – Rachel Cruze (33:41)

8. The Lasting Impact of Debt Choices

• Lost Opportunities, Emotional Strain:
  • “It stopped us from starting our family... stopped me from being happy a lot of the time.” – Josiah on student loan burdens (36:13)
  • Minimum payments can be crushing—for Josiah, $550/month on $120,000 borrowed (39:30)

9. What It Takes to Graduate Debt-Free

• Hard Work and Intentionality:

  • “Successful people do what unsuccessful people are not willing to do. Debt free people do what non debt free people are not willing to do, which is work.” – Anthony O’Neal (41:53)
  • “It's not about a privileged thing... it's about people who work.” (42:07)

• Concrete Actions:

  • Apply for as many scholarships and grants as possible
  • Consider community college and trade schools
  • Work while attending school
  • Forego prestige or “glitz and glam” for financial reality

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On cultural normalization:

  • "It's normal to have $35,000 in student loan debt... $15,000 in credit card debt... $30,000 financing a wedding... That's normal... I was tired of being normal, and I said I was ready to be different." – Anthony O’Neal (08:32)

• On never being told the dangers:

  • "No one ever said, you're robbing from your future, Anthony, if you take out student loans. It was normal." – Anthony O’Neal (07:34)

• On the predatory industry:

  • "There's just a range of predatory players who view the student loan crisis as their chance to make a quick buck." – Seth Frotman (12:26)

• On default being common:

  • "Studies are showing…every year, a million people will go into default. So this means every freaking day, 28 seconds a day, a week, a year, someone is going into default. Why? Because of the lack of knowledge." – Anthony O’Neal (25:20)

• On the hidden cost:

  • "The fact that people don't know how much money they owe and the first time they've said the number out loud is on a national TV program... shows an incredible amount of shame, guilt and avoidance." – Michael Torpy (31:13)

• On what’s truly needed:

  • "I would rather wait five to seven years to not have the debt... Would you rather have that and get through quicker or would you rather wait a little longer to get it? As a guy who waited nine years…It was worth every second of the patience and the perseverance to do it." – Ken Coleman (35:00)

Key Timestamps

• 00:01–01:14 — Montage of borrowers and their debts
• 03:17–04:15 — Dave Ramsey on how guidance counselors and parents inadvertently mislead students
• 05:47–09:27 — Anthony O’Neal’s personal debt story, including borrowing for lifestyle rather than necessity
• 10:20–10:59 — Dave Ramsey eviscerates the “good debt” argument
• 12:26–13:48 — Seth Frotman on predatory nature of the student loan industry
• 14:13–14:40 — High schoolers discussing college costs and unrealistic timeframes to repay
• 24:31–25:19 — Terry’s $15,000 loan grows to $60,000 despite regular payments
• 26:40–28:31 — Rachel Cruze on the normalization and the consequences of student loans
• 33:09–34:05 — Story of a student who graduated college debt free via scholarships
• 36:13–37:00 — Josiah on what debt has cost him in life milestones

Takeaway Messages

• Student loan debt is not just a number — it’s shaping lives and futures on a massive scale
• Most students borrow because “everyone does it” and rarely see an alternative
• The “good debt” narrative is misleading, as many never reap the benefits or even get degrees
• Education about finances, intentional planning, and hard work can make college without debt possible, but it requires fighting against “normal”
• Students and parents must discuss, research, and sometimes make “unpopular” or “slower” choices to ensure financial freedom

Conclusion

The student loan crisis is deeply entrenched in American culture and economy, but it’s not inevitable. This episode sets the stage for a broader investigation, promising to expose the myths pushing students into debt and to offer practical guidance for a future free from the burdens of student loans.

Next episode preview: "Before we dive into that, we've got to unpack some myths and lies about college. And we'll do that in our next episode." (44:46)