Podcast Summary: Borrowed Future – Ep 2: Is College Even Worth It?

Date: October 7, 2019
Host: George Camel, Ramsey Network
Main Guests: Anthony O’Neal, Seth Godin, Mark Cuban, Brad Barnett, Rachel Cruze, Ken Coleman, Dr. Meg Meeker, Gary Vaynerchuk

Episode Overview

This episode explores the critical question facing millions of Americans: Is college even worth it? As the student loan crisis reaches new heights, host George Camel and guests examine the long-held belief that college is an automatic route to success, the mounting financial burden of higher education, and the cultural and parental pressures that drive students toward college at any cost. The episode challenges listeners to consider true ROI (Return on Investment) for a college degree and alternative ways to build a successful life without incurring massive debt.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Default Narrative: College = Success

• High Schoolers’ Perspective ([00:00–02:45])

  • Most students (and parents) believe college is the only path to prosperity.
  • Notable Voices: Anthony O’Neal, several high school students.
  • Quote:

    “No one said, 'You don’t have to go to college.' No one even showed me all of my options for continued education. ... So I just thought that if I don’t go to college, I failed.”
    — Anthony O’Neal [00:00]

• Statistics Highlight ([02:46–03:56])

  • 69.1% of high school graduates (2018) enrolled in college; only 55% finish within six years.
  • Almost half of students start college that won't finish, often still saddled with debt.

2. Reconsidering the True Value and Purpose of College

• Skills vs. Credentials ([03:56–05:14])

  • Seth Godin questions if college teaches success skills or just rewards obedience.
  • Quote:

    “They are not successful because they did things that would have gotten them an A in school. They are successful because they have an array of skills… I call them real skills.”
    — Seth Godin [04:39]

  • Mark Cuban: College is about “learning how to learn,” not just the degree. ([05:25–06:37])

• The “Experience” Factor ([06:37–09:57])

  • Many students crave the "college experience"—independence, social life, and campus life—often undervaluing the cost.
  • Seth Godin criticizes how colleges market experience over reality:

    “If I wanted to sell a college to the normal group of semi unmotivated, semi uninformed people, I would start with the football team. I would move on to the parties ... I wouldn’t mention student debt.”
    — Seth Godin [08:40]

3. Lifestyle Trap: Spending and Debt Beyond Tuition

• Lifestyle Inflation ([10:04–13:57])
  • Many students use loans for non-education expenses: vacations, shopping, eating out.
  • Kyle recounts peers spending financial aid checks irresponsibly.
  • Quote:

    “They would just spend it on purses ... whereas they should have just taken that money and applied it to their college bill... it’s like shooting themselves in the foot twice.”
    — Kyle [12:21]

4. Cultural & Parental Pressure on Students

• Family Expectations ([21:41–26:05])

  • Dr. Meg Meeker asserts it's not just a student loan crisis but a parenting crisis, driven by the pursuit of parental pride and tradition.
  • Quote:

    "We don't have a student loan crisis. We have a parenting crisis."
    — Dr. Meg Meeker [21:53]

  • Ken Coleman emphasizes parents should act as guides, not drivers of their children’s career choices.

• Emotional Toll and Responsibility ([28:10–29:03])

  • Gary Vaynerchuk discusses the damage caused by parents forcing students into debt for their own ego.
  • Quote:

    “One of the scariest things in American society is parents putting pressure on kids to go to school to make the parent feel good and making the kid take on debt for that…”
    — Gary Vaynerchuk [28:10]

5. How to Make Better Choices as Students and Parents

• Communication and Planning ([29:15–30:47])

  • Anthony O’Neal: Parents must have honest conversations, explore dreams, jointly develop a plan, but let the student drive the process.
  • Quote:

    "Let them feel like they're in the driver's seat and you're in the passenger seat... you can't be in the driver's seat. Passengers can get out. Drivers cannot."
    — Anthony O’Neal [30:30]

• Real-World Example: Kat’s Story ([31:02–36:05])

  • Kat, an attorney, saddled with law school debt, guides her son to select a less expensive college to avoid debt—sacrificing his “dream school” for long-term wellbeing.
  • Quote:

    "Just assuming that college is the only answer and that student loans is the only way to get there, you know, both of those assumptions are completely wrong."
    — Kat [35:34]

6. ROI and Alternative Paths

• Critical Thinking on Investment ([17:57–19:07])

  • Dave Ramsey: College ROI depends on the degree; not all degrees yield the same financial return.
  • Quote:

    "You can't, across the map, say college degree always gives you this ROI... You have to look at your particular degree field..."
    — Dave Ramsey (attributed via Brad Barnett) [18:16]

• Challenging the “Degree is Enough” Myth ([19:21–21:41])

  • Ken Coleman: Degrees are less important to employers; wrong degree/major can leave grads underqualified and in debt.

• Education ≠ College for All ([36:19–38:56])

  • Anthony O’Neal: Education is essential, but college isn’t always the best or only route—especially if debt is the cost.
  • Quote:

    “Education is for everyone. But the route to college, the process of getting to college is not for everyone.”
    — Anthony O’Neal [36:28]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Seth Godin:

  "If we could fill the world with more people like that [creativity, leadership, resilience] as opposed to people who are simply obedient, well, I'd like to think our culture would shift to one that's more generous and one that has more possibility in it." [04:15]

• Rachel Cruze:

  “You are a college student, which means you're probably broke and that's okay. ... I would rather you live like a college student while you're in college than try to live like a 25-year-old and then graduate and have to go back to live like a college student. Because you have no money and so much debt.” [15:15]

• Anthony O’Neal:

  “Do not allow these four years, these four, five, six years that you're in school … to be the reason why you're in bondage for the next 20, 30, 40 years.” [17:30]

• George Camel’s Sign-off:

  “You can measure the ROI on a degree, but not on your mother. She's priceless.” [39:47]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Opening & College as the Only Path | 00:00–02:45 | | Graduation Rates & Debt Statistics | 02:46–03:56 | | Purpose of College: Seth Godin & Mark Cuban | 03:56–06:37 | | The "College Experience" | 06:38–10:04 | | Lifestyle Trap: Spending Beyond Tuition | 10:05–13:57 | | Parental & Cultural Pressure | 21:41–30:47 | | Kat's Story: Parental Sacrifice | 31:02–36:05 | | Rethinking the Value & Alternatives | 17:57–21:41, 36:19–38:56 | | Closing Takeaways & Next Episode Preview | 38:57–39:47 |

Episode Tone and Takeaways

The episode maintains a candid, sometimes challenging but always practical tone. It features real stories and direct advice. Listeners are encouraged to chart their own path, weigh the true cost/benefit of college, avoid debt for the sake of tradition or lifestyle, and prioritize open family communication over pressure and assumption.

Main Takeaway:
College can be valuable, but not at any cost. Thoughtful planning, awareness of true ROI, and parental support for children's unique dreams are critical. Debt is not a requirement for success—and for many, college may not be the right next step at all.

For more resources, listen to the next episode or visit www.BorrowedFuture.com.