Podcast Summary: Borrowed Future – Ep 3: What College Should You Go To? Avoiding the Traps of Higher Education

Podcast: Borrowed Future
Host: Ramsey Network
Episode Title: Ep 3: What College Should You Go To? Avoiding the Traps of Higher Education
Date: October 14, 2019

Overview

This episode investigates the myths, traps, and realities surrounding the choice of college in today’s America, where soaring tuition and the predatory student loan industry have created a $1.6 trillion student loan crisis. Through stories, data, and expert perspectives, the hosts challenge assumptions about the necessity and value of a four-year college degree, explore alternative paths like community college and trade school, and offer actionable advice for making smart, debt-free educational choices.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem: How Did College Get So Expensive?

• Mike Rowe shares his personal journey (00:00–03:41), explaining how pressure from guidance counselors and the cultural trope “work smart, not hard” pushed him toward unnecessary loans and prestige colleges. He chose community college first, transferred, and graduated debt-free.

  • Quote:
    “The cost of college has increased 1,120%. Nothing so important has ever gotten so expensive so quickly. Not food, not energy, not real estate, not even health care. The question is why?” (Mike Rowe, 03:30)

• Seth Godin, author and entrepreneur, traces the origins of higher education’s expansion and the “college system” (04:21–09:03), highlighting how colleges escalated costs by competing on amenities and prestige.

  • Quote:
    “If you take the easy way long enough, then the system is going to own you forever. ... What this is really about is freedom. It’s about earning the freedom to decide.”
    (Seth Godin, 08:10)

• Key insight: The college system is now a business, where amenities and rankings—often not educational value—drive escalating prices.

2. Challenging the College-for-All Mentality

• Ken Coleman, career expert: The need for a four-year degree varies by career and should be questioned (09:17).

  • “Does a degree absolutely have to happen for me to go into the field that I want to go into? That is the ultimate qualifying question.”
    (Ken Coleman, 09:25)

• Mark Cuban, entrepreneur: You can learn high-value skills outside formal college via the internet or free classes (09:45–10:54).

  • “If you want to know if you're MIT smart, you can go online and take an MIT class for free. ... I’m thinking, this person’s smart and they’re motivated.”
    (Mar Cuban, 10:10)

• Advice: Motivation, real-world skills, and work ethic matter more than a costly degree.

3. Alternatives to Traditional Four-Year College

A. Trade Schools and Skilled Trades

• Anthony O’Neill, author: Trade schools offer fast, targeted training with a high return on investment (11:18–13:34).

  • Story: His barber makes six figures after a $16,000, nine-month trade school investment.

• Practical advice: Know your field’s requirements and don’t dismiss alternatives like trades or certifications.

B. Community College: The Best-Kept Secret?

• Community colleges provide equivalent rigor and quality, especially for foundational courses, at a fraction of the cost:

  • Four-year private college: ~$48,000/year
  • Four-year public in-state: ~$21,000/year
  • Community college: ~$3,660/year (15:36)

• Dave Ramsey: “It’s definitely not only 10% as good an education. ... Information is just much more accessible now than it was 30 years ago to the average person.”
  (Dave Ramsey, 17:30)

• Laura Brown, biomedical sciences PhD student: No disadvantage to starting at community college; teaches at both a community college and a state university—curricula are virtually the same (18:27–19:49).

  • “It’s just a misconception that the dollar amount that you pay for the education is directly proportional to the quality of education.”
    (Laura Brown, 19:44)

• Rachel Cruze, personal finance expert: Employers often view community college students as more strategic and practical (20:42–21:27).

C. The Transfer Pathway

• Brad Barnett, JMU financial aid director: Community college transfer students earn the same four-year diploma—no one knows where you started, only where you finished (21:36–24:03).
  • “Nowhere on your diploma ... does it say you went to a community college first. ... When everything’s all said and done, get your education, you find the track that gives you the programs that you can afford ... and you go on and have the life you want.”
    (Brad Barnett, 23:31)

4. College Prestige, Marketing, and the “Famous College” Trap

• Seth Godin: Urges listeners to avoid conflating “famous” with “good.” Most successful people didn’t attend name-brand schools, and the alumni network only matters for rare, specific cases (25:32–29:59).

  • “You shouldn’t go to a famous college. ... Some of the cheapest colleges in America could be great if you make them great.”
    (Seth Godin, 25:39)

• Happiness and income among people who got into (but didn’t attend) Harvard vs. those who went: “No difference 10 years later.”
  (Seth Godin, 28:52)

• Ken Coleman: The right place is what you can afford and where you can learn what you need—name brands are overhyped (30:11–31:44).

• Dr. Magmeeker, pediatrician: At the end of the day, patients/employers don’t care where you went to school. Skills matter, not pedigree (31:44–32:39).

• Dave Ramsey: “I have never hired anyone ever, based on where they went to school, ever.”
  (Dave Ramsey, 32:52)

5. The Marketing Machine: How Colleges Sell You More Than an Education

• Colleges use marketing and amenities (lazy rivers, ski resorts, steak houses) to recruit, not always focusing on education (33:53–34:42).

• Seth Frotman, Borrower Protection Center: Students are seen as profit opportunities, and must be very careful, especially with for-profit or predatory institutions (35:23–37:26).

  • “If someone is pressuring you, if someone is promising you the moon, slow down, ask questions. ... People view students as a dollar sign on your backpack.”
    (Seth Frotman, 35:30 & 37:16)

• Brent Tenner, Vanderbilt: Marketing creates “pictures” and “stories” that may be misleading—always dig deeper (37:42–38:46).

6. Student Experiences & Consequences of Debt

• Marcus, student case: Regrets choosing a big, expensive school for perceived prestige—now has $23,000 in loans, mostly for general ed classes, and works in a restaurant to pay off debt (38:46–40:12).

• Seth Frotman: The debt burden impacts not just immediate finances but lifelong wealth—one couple’s $52,000 in loans ends up costing them a quarter of a million in lost opportunities (40:12–41:54).

7. Myths, Millionaires, and Mindset

• Chris Hogan, author: Most millionaires did not attend prestigious schools or take on student loans.
  • “Seven out of the 10 millionaires never took on a penny of student loan debt. ... 79% didn’t go to a prestigious college. ... It doesn't matter where you go to school. It's more about you having a mindset of starting something and being able to finish it.”
    (Chris Hogan, 42:06–42:58)
• Career success is more related to mindset and game plan than earning potential; even teachers can build wealth with smart money habits (43:14–43:48).

8. How to Make a Smart, Debt-Free College Choice

• Avoid regretting college choices made for the wrong reasons (prestige, marketing, cultural pressure).

• Key planning advice:

  • Plan ahead and research options—trade schools, community colleges, and public in-state universities (44:07–44:50).
  • “Proper prior planning prevents poor performances.”
    (Anthony O’Neill, 44:51)

• Dylan’s story: Graduated debt-free by choosing an affordable in-state school, working multiple jobs. Now he and his wife are financially flexible and less stressed (45:53–49:47).

  • “Coming out of college debt free means you can explore ... it is the less glamorous choice, but it’s the smarter choice.”
    (Dylan, 48:20)
  • “Being debt free. It’s a lot, a lot more flexibility, a lot more options coming out with no debt.”
    (Dylan, 49:47)

• Anthony O’Neill: Redefine your “dream school” as one you can actually afford. Hard work and strategic choices matter more than brand names (50:36–52:40).

  • “My definition of a dream school is a school that I can afford. ... Is a school that I can pay cash for. ... Graduating debt free is the smartest decision you can make.”
    (Anthony O’Neill, 50:53)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The student loan crisis is exactly that. It's a crisis. And the cost of college is out of control.”
  – Mike Rowe, 03:25

• “Prestige is not worth a lifetime of debt.”
  – George Camel, Host, [Paraphrased]

• “College is a business, and students are the customers—often viewed as dollar signs on a backpack.”
  – Seth Frotman, 37:16

• “Seven out of the 10 millionaires never took on a penny of student loan debt.”
  – Chris Hogan, 42:06

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – Mike Rowe’s story: Guidance counselor pressures; why he chose community college and stayed debt free.
• 04:21 – Seth Godin on the evolution and business of higher education.
• 09:17 – Ken Coleman: Do you really need a four-year degree?
• 10:00 – Mark Cuban: Skills, motivation, and learning in the internet age.
• 11:18 – Anthony O’Neill: Financial and career benefits of trade schools.
• 15:36 – Comparison of education costs: public, private, community college.
• 18:41 – Laura Brown: The realities and misconceptions about community college.
• 21:36 – Brad Barnett, JMU: How financial aid offices guide students; transferable credits.
• 25:32 – Seth Godin: The myth of the “good” or “famous” college.
• 35:23 – Seth Frotman: Predatory marketing and the need for caution.
• 38:46 – Marcus: Real-life consequences of debt-driven school choice.
• 42:06 – Chris Hogan: Data on millionaires and college paths.
• 44:51 – Anthony O’Neill: The 6 Ps and debt-free planning.
• 45:53 – Dylan: Debt-free college experience and its life-changing effects.
• 50:36 – Anthony O’Neill: Redefining the “dream school.”

Conclusion: Actionable Takeaways

• The cost of college has exploded, driven by competition, prestige, and marketing—not always by better education.
• Don’t assume a four-year degree is necessary; research your field’s requirements.
• Serious success can come from trade schools, community colleges, or public universities—not just name-brands.
• Community college is a low-cost, high-quality gateway to education and career success.
• Prestige rarely matters after graduation; knowledge, skills, and mindset do.
• Marketing and amenities increase costs—don’t be swayed by shiny campus perks.
• Have a plan: prioritize “the right place” for your goals, not just “the best name.”
• Graduate debt-free if at all possible—freedom follows.

“If you wouldn’t pay 93% more for a name brand breakfast cereal, why do it for a college degree?”
– George Camel, closing thought