Podcast Summary: Borrowed Future, Ep 6: Don’t Bank on Student Loan Forgiveness

Host: Ramsey Network (George Camel)
Date: November 4, 2019

Overview

This episode confronts the myth of student loan forgiveness as a reliable solution to America's $1.6 trillion student debt crisis. Through interviews with affected borrowers, experts, and policy voices, "Don’t Bank on Student Loan Forgiveness" exposes the bureaucratic failures, broken promises, and hard economic realities shaping the future for millions. The hosts urge listeners to take personal responsibility by aggressively paying down student debt—and to be wary of political promises that may never materialize.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Broken Promise of Student Loan Forgiveness

(00:01 – 12:40)

• Many borrowers enter college expecting some or all loans will eventually be forgiven under government programs.
• Reality check: The Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, launched in 2007, forgave less than 1% of applicants by 2017; out of 30,000 applicants, only 96 saw their loans erased.
• “Statistically, you’re more likely to get your tax return audited than you are to get your loans forgiven.” (00:07:45 – Host)

The TEACH Grant Fiasco

• Teacher "Rhonda" describes how her TEACH grant, meant to be forgiven after public service, was erroneously converted to a loan due to bureaucratic mishaps.
• Even after legal intervention and recertification, she remains trapped:

“I feel like I’m going through the process all over again.” (00:14:45 – Rhonda)

2. Political Rhetoric vs. Reality

(12:41 – 19:36)

• Sound bites from 2020 presidential hopefuls promise sweeping student debt relief or free public college.
• Dave Ramsey critiques these proposals as unsustainable and unfair:
  • Forgiving debt means taxpayers foot the bill, draining the economy.
  • Moral questions arise: “What about all the people that paid their student loans?... How is this moral? It’s not moral. It’s a way to get votes from desperate, scared people.” (00:18:02 – Dave Ramsey)
• Ramsey advocates first ending federal student loan programs before discussing any targeted relief:

“If it’s so bad that we need to forgive the loans, why are we continuing to make them?” (00:19:08 – Dave Ramsey)

3. Systemic Failures & Individual Responsibility

(19:37 – 37:16)

• Guests and experts debate who’s responsible: individuals or the government.
• Common theme: Waiting for forgiveness leaves students financially paralyzed for decades.
• Real-world impacts:
  • Borrowers delay major life events—home buying, starting businesses or families—due to massive, persistent loan payments.
  • Individuals share anger and frustration: “I struggled so hard for so long to get to where we are, that we’ve been able to pay off my student loan debt. And so there’s a little bit of anger that no one stepped in and bailed me out.” (00:33:28 – Anonymous interviewee)

Advice from Experts

• Brad Barnett (James Madison University Financial Aid): Warns against borrowing based on current forgiveness laws, which can change at any time.
  • “Congress gives and Congress takes away… The next Congress could come in and completely negate it. So there’s a lot of risk involved in looking to the future to justify some of your borrowing today.” (00:26:51 – Brad Barnett)

4. Failures of Student Loan Servicers and Lenders

(37:17 – 48:44)

• Seth Frotman (Student Borrower Protection Center) details predatory industry practices:
  • Servicers mislead or mishandle borrower accounts, causing interest to balloon due to administrative “mistakes.”
  • “Mistakes can actually rise up to a level of illegal practices where you should be talking to your state attorney general…” (00:40:35 – Seth Frotman)
• Terry, a borrower, tells how her income-based repayment plan should’ve led to forgiveness in 2021, but paperwork and company switches pushed it to 2039, with the balance only growing:
  • “I make my payments like it says and it goes nowhere. The balance never decreases. It continues to increase because I just watched the money go nowhere.” (00:44:20 – Terry)

5. The Future: Technology, Economy, and Self-Investment

(48:45 – 56:03)

• Seth Godin (Author/Thought Leader): Automation and AI threaten even high-earning professions; adaptability matters more than degrees.
  • “If I can write down what the system needs to do, I can get a computer to do it… So the question is, where did you learn how to [make hard decisions]?” (00:52:38 – Seth Godin)
• Mark Cuban (Entrepreneur): Heavy student debt restricts economic choices and entrepreneurship.
  • “It keeps [graduates] from buying houses. It keeps them from investing in themselves to follow their dreams…” (00:54:00 – Mark Cuban)

6. Societal and Policy-Level Changes Needed

(56:04 – 01:03:50)

• Seth Frotman: Fixing affordability for future students can’t mean ignoring the current “sacrificed generation.”
• “We need to have a broader discussion… these issues are having a trickle down effect. If you are focusing on economic development, if you’re focusing on improving your community, if you’re focused on income inequality or rural development, if you’re not thinking about student debt, you’re kind of missing the boat here.” (00:59:28 – Seth Frotman)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If you signed that student loan paperwork and you already have student loans, it is not the government’s responsibility to pay off your student loans because that means taxpayers are paying off your student loans. No, you got to get a job and you have to aggressively go after it."
  – Anthony O’Neill (00:06:10)

• "It’s bad critical thinking that we’re going to fix this. That’s like saying, I want to pay off my credit card while I’m still using the other one."
  – Dave Ramsey (00:21:10)

• "So in many ways… if you are focusing on economic development, if you're focusing on improving your community, if you're focused on income inequality… if you're not thinking about student debt, you’re kind of missing the boat here."
  – Seth Frotman (00:59:28)

• "If we really want our young people to take control of their future, it’s time for them to stop taking the kid’s approach and start making an adult decision… The caliber of their future will be determined by the decision, the choice they make right now."
  – Anthony O’Neill (01:01:15)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:01–05:30: Borrower’s personal testimony on student loans and hopes for forgiveness
• 06:05: Anthony O’Neill on personal responsibility
• 09:10: The disappointing statistics of Public Service Loan Forgiveness
• 14:45: Rhonda’s TEACH Grant story
• 18:02: Dave Ramsey’s critique of forgiveness proposals
• 26:51: Brad Barnett on the risks of relying on forgiveness
• 33:28–34:30: Frustration from borrowers who paid their loans with no help
• 40:35: Seth Frotman on loan servicer misconduct
• 44:20: Terry’s story of program changes and mounting debt
• 52:38: Seth Godin on the job market’s future
• 54:00: Mark Cuban on debt’s impact on young people’s choices
• 59:28: Societal impact and need for wider policy discussion

Tone & Takeaways

The episode is candid, skeptical, and practical. It counters the optimistic rhetoric around forgiveness with evidence, expert input, and emotional stories from real borrowers. Listeners are encouraged to take control—avoid waiting on uncertain government relief, seek financial discipline, and advocate for systemic reforms.

Additional Resources

For more details and future episodes, visit BorrowedFuture.com. To share your own student loan experience, email story@borrowedfuture.com.

Final Takeaway:
There’s a 1% chance your loans will be forgiven—and a 99% chance they won’t. Don't bank on student loan forgiveness.