Brain Science Live #4: Language in the Brain (Brain Science with Ginger Campbell, MD)

Episode Date: September 14, 2018
Host: Ginger Campbell, MD

Brief Overview

In this live episode, Dr. Ginger Campbell delves into the topic of language in the brain, centering the discussion around insights from episode 144—her interview with Dr. Angela Friederici, author of Language in Our Brain: The Origins of a Uniquely Human Capacity. Dr. Campbell explores what makes human language special, the neural underpinnings of linguistic capacities, and discusses major research findings, all while engaging in audience Q&A about language acquisition, neuroanatomical differences, and neuroplasticity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Makes Human Language Unique?

Unlike tool use, which is found in other animals, complex, hierarchical language—the formation of intricate sentences and ideas—is unique to humans.
- “Language in its truest sense is having the ability to form complex hierarchical sentences like ‘the boy gave the girl the book so that she could read it.’” (00:27)

2. Core Components and Theoretical Frameworks

Linguistic theory breaks language into three main components:
- Phonology: The sound structure of language
- Semantics: The meaning of words and sentences
- Syntax: The grammatical structure
- (01:31)
Neuroscience examines related questions:
- Neuroanatomy: Where do these processes occur?
- Connectivity: How are these brain regions connected?

3. The Temporal Order of Language Processing

Phonology and syntax are processed before semantics, and all occur rapidly—within 150 milliseconds.
- “Both phonology and syntax are processed very early on, like in 150 milliseconds before semantics. Even though this goes against our intuition…” (02:08)

4. Role of Brain Regions: Broca’s & Beyond

The posterior part of Broca’s area (Brodmann’s Area 44) is especially important for complex syntax.
- Discovering this relied on combining EEG (for timing) and fMRI (for spatial resolution):
  - “Functional MRI doesn’t actually have the temporal resolution needed to isolate anything in the order of milliseconds…so Dr. Friederici explains how sophisticated experiments have to be designed…” (02:43)

5. Brain Connectivity and Language Diversity

Language differences are reflected in the strength of brain connections (fiber tracts), not their existence.
- German speakers: Stronger dorsal pathways (linked to complex morphosyntax)
- English speakers: Stronger ventral pathways
- Chinese speakers: More extensive connections between right and left hemispheres (related to prosody and tonality)
- “The circuits appear to be universal. It’s the strength of the connections that are affected by one's native language.” (10:52)

6. Evolutionary Insights

Broca’s area (particularly Area 44) is crucial in distinguishing humans from other primates regarding language abilities.

7. Integration of Syntax and Semantics

Syntax and semantics integration likely relies on association areas in the temporal cortex, but this remains controversial due to:
- The underdeveloped nature of semantic theory
- High variability across individuals
- “It’s like each one of us has a unique set of associations for every word, meaning that we learn.” (06:50)
- “One of the things that surprised me when I was reading this book was how undeveloped semantic theory is.” (07:34)

8. Language Learning & Second Languages

Second language learners develop the same fiber connections, but may lack the unconscious, rapid (automatic) processing of syntax and prosody that native language speakers enjoy:
- “For a first language, prosody and syntax … occur rapidly and essentially unconsciously. And that’s the part that we can’t really reproduce when we learn a second language.” (12:17)

9. Neuroplasticity, Brain Injury, and Autism

Dr. Friederici is involved in research on traumatic brain injury and language, though results are unpublished.
On autism and language: Listeners are directed to previous interviews (Ep. 98 & 99), but language/neuroplasticity wasn’t a central focus.
Resource recommendation: “Clear Story Learning” for neuroscience-informed education applications (13:58)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Pursuing Scientific Research:
- “You have to find an area that sets you on fire… so that you will be motivated to work day and night.”
  — Dr. Angela Friederici, as cited by Dr. Campbell (09:10)
On Interdisciplinary Progress:
- “Way back in episode 30, … I was convinced that linguists weren’t paying attention to actual neuroscience. Well, obviously this is not true for Dr. Friederici…” (07:05)
Personal Reflection:
- “What we’ve learned is that these areas [Broca’s, Wernicke’s] also contain significant subdivisions.” (08:05)

Important Timestamps

00:04 – 02:08: Introduction, overview, linguistic and neuroscience foundations
02:09 – 04:20: How brain imaging/experiments clarify the timing and location of language processing
05:40 – 08:20: Insights on brain subdivisions and evolving focus on connectivity
10:52 – 12:55: Listener questions on bilingualism, language-specific neural pathways, and second language acquisition
13:58 – 15:30: Q&A on neuroplasticity, traumatic brain injury, and autism; resource recommendations

Flow and Tone

Dr. Campbell’s delivery is clear, approachable, and enthusiastic—making technical neuroscience accessible without oversimplifying. She blends direct explanations with reflective personal comments and integrates audience input for a dynamic, community-focused episode.

Summary for New Listeners

This episode is a comprehensive update on the neuroscience of language: why complex syntax is a uniquely human trait, the distinct yet interconnected roles of brain regions (especially Broca’s area), and how modern research is revealing the neural wiring behind differences in language processing across cultures and individuals. If you're curious about what truly sets human language apart—or how our brains adapt when learning languages—this is an engaging, accessible listen suitable for interested laypeople and professionals alike.

Transcript

A (0:04)

This is Brain Science live number four. We're going to be talking about Brain Science episode 144, which was an interview with Angela Friedrichi about language in our brain. Over the years, neuroscientists have discovered that other animals have many abilities that were once thought to be unique to humans. One well known example is the fact that chimpanzees and even some birds have the ability to use tools. But after extensive attempts to teach language to a wide variety of animals, most scientists agree that although all animals communicate and some can learn human words, language in its truest sense appears to be unique to humans. What I mean by language in its truest sense is having the ability to form complex hierarchical sentences like the boy gave the girl the book so that she could read it. This distinction is important to researchers like Dr. Angela Friedriche, whose new book, Language in Our the Origins of a Uniquely Human Capacity provides an extensive review of several decades of research. That's what we explored in her interview in episode 144. Now, language in the Brain. Sorry, Language in Our Brain is a fairly technical book aimed at students and scientists working in the field, but it's also appropriate for any serious reader who wants to get a grasp of the current neuroscience of language. Much of this research is driven by linguistic theory, which describes language in terms of three key phonology or sound, semantics or meaning, and syntax or grammar. Meanwhile, from a neuroscience point of view, the key questions are neuroanatomy, where does it happen? And how are the important language related parts of the brain connected? Of course, the evolution of these connections and parts is also of interest. These questions are addressed with different tools. For example, EEG and evoked potential tell us about timing. From this we know that both phonology and syntax are processed very early on, like in 150 milliseconds before semantics. Even though this goes against our intuition, if we're non linguists, we talked with Dr. Federici in detail about some of the experimental methods that are used to tease apart these features. One key idea is that the back or posterior part of Broca's area, which is known as Rodman's Area 44, seems to be particularly involved in complex syntax. To discover this required very sophisticated use of functional MRI data, because a functional MRI doesn't actually have the temporal resolution needed to isolate anything in the order of milliseconds, which is the time scale of language comprehension. So Dr. Friederici explains how sophisticated experiments have to be designed in order to make up for this deficit with regards to the use of the FMRI data. She also emphasized that most research is now focused on how these so called language areas communicate with each other. In fact, this is what seems to be the key difference between people who speak different languages. For example, German speakers seem to have strong dorsal pathways, whereas English speakers have stronger ventral pathways. And Chinese speakers seem to have more extensive connections between the right and left hemisphere. We didn't get to talk about the chapters in our book about the neuroanatomical differences between humans and other primates, but. But as you might expect, Brogman's Area 44 turns out to be important here too. During the episode or at the end of the episode, I mentioned that this is not the sort of book likely to appeal to the average listener. So I wanted to focus on, well, what are the take home ideas for someone who wouldn't read this book? One thing I wanted to emphasize is that it's been a long time since I talked about language on this show. And way back in episode 30, which would have been in early 2008, I was convinced that linguists weren't paying attention to actual neuroscience. Well, obviously this is not true for Dr. Friedrici, and she's been a leading researcher in this field for decades. Based on the science in this book, I think it's fair to conclude that speech comprehension does involve the three components of standard linguistic theory, phonology, semantics, and syntax. And there is overwhelming evidence that the syntax happens early and automatically. By combining the temporal resolution of the EEG and the spatial resolution of the new imaging methods, scientists do have a fairly good idea of what parts of the brain are important for language comprehension. This does include areas traditionally associated with language, such as Broca's area and Wernicke's area. But what we've learned is that these areas also contain significant subdivisions. Meanwhile, the study of language in the brain is following a trend toward an emphasis on connectivity. We didn't talk much about semantics, but in her book, Dr. Friedrichi does give this area its due. One of the challenges about semantics is that there are so many parts of the brain involved. Also, there's a lot of variability between people. It's like each one of us has a unique set of associations for every word, meaning that we learn. Another topic I felt that we neglected at the time was the integration of semantics and syntax. This does seem to involve the association areas of the temporal cortex, but this is an area where there's a lot more controversy about how to interpret the data. One of the things that surprised me when I was Reading this book was how undeveloped semantic theory is. It seems to me like this could have implications for experimental design because most experiments are inevitably influenced by the theoretical expectations of their designers. Now, Dr. Federici also, you know, I love to ask, well, what's your advice for students? And I really appreciated her answer to this question. She said, you have to find an area that sets you on fire. Her exact words, so that you will be motivated to work day and night. People don't appreciate how hard scientists really work. Dr. Friederici's passion for language in the brain came through during her interview and also on the pages of her book. Okay, so before I talk about the questions that I got by email and if anyone's in the chat room and wants to add a question, please feel free to post it in the comments and I will try to address it, I want to remind you that one of the sponsors of Brain Science is the Great Courses plus, and that's at thegreatcoursesplusginger. I think I put that in the bottom of the screen. This is kind of like I tell people, it's the Netflix for lectures, because you can listen to all these world renowned lectures in a wide variety of fields, but you get unlimited access for a monthly fee and you can try it for a month for free by going to thegreatcoursesplus.com Ginger, I hope you will at least click on that link or go to that link because I get credit even if you don't actually subscribe. Okay, so what about questions and feedback from listeners? This is the first month that I think we've actually really had any because there's been enough time lag between when I started announcing this for people to actually begin responding. So Megan sent me two questions. First, she said, what are the implications for the different development of the brain for language learners? For example, the difference between German, English and Chinese speakers. And how does this change the long term connections that the brain can form? Well, first I want to emphasize, as Dr. Federici did during her interview, that the circuits appear to be universal. It's the strength of the connections that are affected by one's native language. So German has a very heavy morpho syntax. This means that the words are very complicated. There's a lot of different verb forms and whatnot. They seem to have really strong dorsal fiber tracts. English doesn't have this. And our fiber track of dominance appears to be the ventral fiber tract. The Chinese have a lot of prosodic information because it's a tonal language. And for them, it seems to be that the strong connections are between the left and right hemispheres. Megan's other question was, when a language is learned later in life, are we going to see the same connections to develop, or is it only if you learn the language before the age of three? Back to the same thing. It appears that everyone has the same fiber tracts, the dorsal, ventral, and the one between the hemispheres. It actually appears, if I understand her correctly, that the real challenge of a second language is that for a first language, prosody and syntax, especially syntax, occur rapidly and essentially unconsciously. And that's the part that we can't really reproduce when we learn a second language. So it's easy to add vocabulary to, but it's not so easy to recognize instantly the meaning of a sentence in the sense of the way we can of our native language. Michelle sent me an email where she said, I'd like to hear more about language and neuroplasticity in patients who've suffered brain trauma. Are there cases that have been studied? She also asked, what about language and autism? So I sent her an email that said, I'm sorry, but, you know, I don't really know too much about these. I can't keep up with the literature in this. Dr. Federici did say that she was involved in some traumatic brain injury research, but the work had not yet been published. As far as autism goes, I referred her to my interview with Temple Grandin, which was episode 99. And there's also episode 98, which is a discussion of her book, the Autistic Brain. However, I have to say, to the best of my remembrance, I don't think that neuroplasticity or language were big factors in either of these episodes. I did recommend that she check out my friend Kevin Washburn's website, Clear Story Learning. This is a site that is devoted to applying the latest neuroscience to education. So you might want to check that out if you're interested in that particular topic. Okay, so the link for Clear Story Learning, since that's apparently not showing up even though I posted it, is clerestory is spelled C L E R E S T o R Y learning.com Clear story learning C L E R E S T o r y learning.com so I'm going to just get ready to close, but if you got a comment or question, please go ahead and post it. I'm just going to say a couple things that I said at the beginning before everyone was signed on. One, to remind you about Australia, if you want to Come just write me an email@brainsciencepodcastmail.com and I will send you a PDF all the details. The dates are May 20th through 30th, 2019. And also that's the email brainsciencepodcastmail.com for your feedback or suggestions. I need to find somebody that might want to help me with posting links during the podcast because that does seem to slow things down. Okay, so we're going to go to Australia. I hope some of you might want to come. The other thing again is to remind you that the audio of this session will be posted both in the premium feed. Name of the book I refer to? No, the name of the book is Language in Our Brain, the Origins of a Uniquely Human Capacity, which was featured in brain science episode 144, which you can find@brainsciencepodcast.com and the person who is the author is Dr. Angela Friedriche, who is in Germany. So as I was saying, premium and Patreon supporters get the audio for this automatically. Also, they now will get for new episodes of Brain Science. If there are ads in the episode, they will get an ad free version as well as the episode transcript. The special offer for September 15th through 30th and this is for Patreon. If you are pledged for a minimum of $5 a month, you're going to get the second edition of my ebook Are you Sure of the Unconscious Origins of Certainty, which was Originally published in 2010. I'm updating it. This is a Kindle book, which is usually $9.99. You will get it the new second edition for free before I put it up on Kindle. That's if you give me a $5 minimum on your pledge. And if you're already pledged and you're at least $5, you're going to get this automatically as my appreciation for your support. Okay, so thanks so much. For those of you that are listening live next month we're going to be talking about episode 145, which was an interview with Marianne Wolf about reading in the Brain. I got a lot of feedback about this episode. There was a lot of, you might say, disagreement, Dr. Wolff's position. So I think that next month's Brain Science Live will hopefully be really interesting. So we'll be back on the first Thursday of October. Thanks again. Hope to see you soon. Brain Science with Dr. Ginger Campbell is copyright 2018 to Virginia Campbell, MD. You can copy this show to share it with others, but for any other uses or derivatives, please contact me@brainsciencepodcastmail.com.