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- [00:00]
Andy Cohen
Foreign. Welcome to Bravo's Hot mic.
- [00:07]
Jeff Lewis
Thank you.
- [00:08]
Andy Cohen
So glad to have you here. Excited to be working with you. And we will talk a little bit about that, but I want to go back in time, and I want to talk about flipping out, obviously, and let's talk about what your life was like before flipping out and how it came to be. Let's talk about the origin story of flipping out. Of flipping out. Yeah.
- [00:29]
Jeff Lewis
I was a. I guess a developer, a house flipper, and it was in kind of the height of my flipping career, really. So I think I had been doing it for at least maybe seven years before full time, before Bravo discovered me. And I'm really one of the only people that I think was actually truly discovered. Like, they're. You know, these people, they'll. They'll say one thing, but really, I was. I was found on a tape that basically, my assistant Jenny and her husband Chris, they had aligned themselves with this tiny little production company, and they were charming. I mean, don't get me wrong, they were very likable and charming, and they were trying so hard to make it in Hollywood, and they both worked for me, and they got this company to invest in them, and they were gonna. They did some sort of, you know, what do you call it?
- [01:26]
Andy Cohen
Like, a sizzle kind of thing?
- [01:27]
Jeff Lewis
Yes, a sizzle reel. So I was like, okay, whatever. And like, no, we have this production company, and they really want to do a show about us, and they're very behind us, and we want you to be a part of it because we spend 50 hours a week working for you. And I said, no, I'm not interested. And Jenny must have come to me five or six times. And then she kind of explained it in a way. I'm like, well, I'm like, what is this? How does this benefit me? And she said, well, you know, if the show goes, you know, they would see your work on camera. And they, you know, and I thought, okay, well, maybe. How would I benefit from this? Maybe my houses would sell faster. So I agreed to let them come in. But I also knew it was a very slight chance anything was ever gonna happen. So once we'd filmed, I had filmed for maybe two days, and they. It was mostly about their life, so they'd spent not a lot of time with me. But about 48 hours later, the production company had called me and said, we really want to do a show about your life. And so I didn't really. I didn't think it through. I just said. I just kind of closed my eyes and jump And I said, okay, go ahead. And they were in my home for a few days and they filmed this sizzle reel and then they had packaged it and then they packaged Jenny and Chris's show and they sent it out to networks. And we had interest from three different networks and flipping out, ended up getting bought. And the only reason we went to Bravo is because they wanted to go right to series with six episodes. And I, I didn't know a lot about the business at the time, but the other two networks were interested in pilots. And what I was told by the few people I knew in the entertainment industry that, well, there's, there's a, you know, a very strong chance it would never get made because, you know, they're going to, they're going to pilot it and then they're going to test it and there's a, there's a chance they won't even order any episodes. So the production company had suggested that we go with Bravo, which they had ordered. I think it was six episodes. And then we were kind of off to the races. And it all happened very quickly. I had a lot of naysayers. It was in 2007, so reality TV was not as popular as it is today. So there was a lot of naysayers, a lot of criticism from friends, family. The person I was dating at the time was an actor, and he was very dead set against it as well. He's like, they're going to make you, you know, they're going to embarrass you, you're going to look like a fool. Which, you know, I'm not going to blame Bravo for that. But, yeah, I did at times. But I'm glad I did it because it, you know, it was a great platform to promote my business. And then over the years, you know, there were product lines and appearances and paid Instagram. When Instagram came about, there was Instagram reels and posts and all that. So there was a lot of streams of income that had come through because I did that show. It was never, for me about being famous. It was never, I never cared about that. I just wanted to make money. And they originally had offered me an embarrassing amount of money. The production company made a huge mistake because they had agreed to the deal with Bravo before signing me on.
- [04:56]
Andy Cohen
So you had the leverage.
- [04:57]
Jeff Lewis
So I had leverage. So I ended up making considerably more money than I think anyone else as a first time unknown. And that made it worth it to me because then it was. Because there was a lot of promises about what the show would do for Me and you really don't know until you and I. Actually, for me, it was different because I was liked, but I was also disliked. So I was kind of a very notable villain. I didn't have as many of, like, the brand deals and commercial opportunities that other people have had because I was.
- [05:36]
Andy Cohen
Polarizing to some extent.
- [05:38]
Jeff Lewis
Polarizing a little bit risky. They were worried because there were so many people that disliked me. But it's always been the people that understood me were really behind me and really supported me. People that got me. And my. My brother said to me right when it was about to air, he said, you know, there's managers, business owners, employers, they're all going to understand your position. But the problem is there's a lot more employees than there is employers, and the employees are not going to. They're going to side with, you know, the nine people that worked for me. And that's really the kind of what happened. But I think the ensemble cast was brilliant. I think it was. And by the way, that wasn't cast by a network or a production company. Those were just the people in my life. I've always been drawn to big personalities and characters. And so it was a very kind of colorful cast. And so I always say, you know, if you don't relate to me, you relate to someone else on the cast. So it was definitely a collective effort, I think, in making that show successful.
- [06:53]
Andy Cohen
I remember when it premiered in 2007, just thinking that we hadn't seen someone like you on television. And I think part of what people were drawn to is that you were successful. And then it was sort of the angst of keeping that going and managing it all. And. And you were also a contradiction in the sense that you were tough on your employees, but you also treated them really well and you were fiercely loyal to them.
- [07:20]
Jeff Lewis
Yes.
- [07:21]
Andy Cohen
Which I think made it palatable.
- [07:23]
Jeff Lewis
Yes, I was tough on them. And, you know, I just actually recently discovered in therapy over the last couple of years, really what the problem was. And the problem was is I always felt sorry for people, and I always wanted to help people. And I always felt like I had advantages or opportunities that maybe others did not. And so for that, I wanted to help people. So I would collect people that were. And I would hire people that really didn't have the experience or the skills to do the job. And I did it because I wanted to. You know, I felt like they needed a leg up. So a lot of my downfall, so to speak, has been surrounding myself by people that are incompetent and since then, I have now, within the last several years, it has been a conscious decision of mine to make sure that someone is. It doesn't matter how likable and lovable you are. And it doesn't matter that, you know, you were my neighbor 10 years ago or that my dad is best friends with your dad. Like, I have to hire the right person, and I didn't. I always hired people for the wrong reasons, I think. And those people drove me crazy. Like, literally, I was on the. I mean, I was there. So that combined with the. And, you know, I was a young guy. I had a lot of responsibility. I owed. You know, I was. I had loans, I had investors. There was a lot on my plate. And to have all of that responsibility and then have people that weren't really qualified to do the job was extra stressful. I also was not emotionally mature enough to handle the level of stress that I had. And so I would act out every which way. And I don't. I think the biggest changes in my life happened when my ex and I broke up and then we had our baby. Monroe is. I realized that this way of doing things was not working for me.
- [09:36]
Andy Cohen
Yeah.
- [09:37]
Jeff Lewis
And I also didn't, you know, I realized this little, you know, cute little blonde girl looking up at me and emulating everything I do. And so I just thought, I owe it to her. You know, what have I done all of the work on myself that I have done, perhaps, perhaps not.
- [09:56]
Andy Cohen
Right.
- [09:56]
Jeff Lewis
And that's the other thing, too. It's like, if I'm going to up my own life, that's one thing, but I don't want to up her life too. So I've really worked. I haven't always been the best dad, but I have worked very hard over the last few years, especially to be the best dad that I can, and I think the best employer that I can be as well. And I'm not to say that we're all incompetent because everyone has their skills, but a few of them were.
- [10:21]
Andy Cohen
Well, you were taking in strays. And then when it didn't work out, then, you know, it sort of turns you into the asshole. Like.
- [10:28]
Jeff Lewis
Well, it's worse, too, because I crossed all the lines. So they became friends, they became family.
- [10:33]
Andy Cohen
Right.
- [10:33]
Jeff Lewis
And that was especially. Well, I actually hired family members.
- [10:39]
Andy Cohen
Yeah.
- [10:39]
Jeff Lewis
And that became especially difficult when they weren't doing the job, because then you have to. You're put in a position where you have to let them go. But I've made a ton of ton of ton of mistakes and you know, I don't make as many as I used to, but I've learned. I've tried to learn from them, but, yeah, I think that was. I think that was the whole reason why I was kind of imploding on national television. And then also we had the, you know, we had the market crash, the big, you know, market crash. And then I was at that time caught with, you know, seven houses under construction.
- [11:14]
Andy Cohen
So true.
- [11:15]
Jeff Lewis
So it was an incredibly stressful period. We made it through, and I paid off every mortgage, I paid off every investor with interest. There was not a single ding in my credit. But it was a really tough time. And actually, at that time, I was very grateful for the show because it was creating another stream of income. And not only was it creating another stream of income, but it was creating additional streams of income. Right. So, you know, we. I've joked about this many times where I do remember in the middle of this market crash, where I was just doing anything to make a buck, and I was. I was doing a lot of design clients, but also I would never turn down a buck. So El Pollo Loco. I've always been a big fan of El Pollo Loco. And I would eat it a lot on the air. And they had reached out and they sent me gift cards and they said, hey, would you ever judge a cooking contest? I said, oh, sure. And so I did a couple of those for them, like in the parking lots of local El Pollo Locos. I mean, we did whatever we could to make a buck, but I wouldn't have had that opportunity if it weren't for the show.
- [12:21]
Andy Cohen
Yeah. The other thing that was notable about the show, and Jen Levy, who now works with me, the production company, but worked for Bravo at the time, has said this, there was no plan. So in other words, it really was just verite of your life. And so she would talk to the showrunner, would say, okay, what are you guys shooting this week? And he'd be like, I don't know. And you could feel that in a really good way, in a really refreshing way in watching the show. It was sort of wherever your experience took the audience. You know, cameras followed. That was it.
- [12:53]
Jeff Lewis
The first week I had set boundaries because I was a very busy guy and it was a real business and real clients. And so I remember them, even the first couple of days, oh, yeah, you know, at 3:00, can we sit you in the chair and can we do an interview? I said, no. I said, you can't. My day is rigidly scheduled. I said, we're going to have to pick a day and we'll figure it out when I can sit down and do confessionals. But no, no, we're not just doing this because you said, we're going to do it at 3:00 today. I don't think they really ever worked with someone like me. And then also, I remember they'd be like, that was really funny. Can you say that again? I said, what are you talking about? And I said, if you don't get it the first time, you're not getting it again. We're moving on. Like, there's no. And I said, and I think in the beginning, I might have been a little difficult to work for because I would say, don't ever interrupt me again. Don't ever stop me again. Just. I might have said, shut up. But I, you know, be quiet and just follow me. And then we would also, people that, you know, some of the crew that couldn't keep up, I would say, they're slowing me down. Yeah, I have shit to do. If you couldn't keep up, you got to go another show. Because I'm not stopping. You're not slowing me down. I have all of these meetings, and that really was the secret, I think, to the success of the show. I just stayed as busy as possible. And as. And there were so many people that were coming in and out of my life on a daily basis. And we were at, you know, we were at five different job sites minimum. And I remember I would just tell them, like the night before, I would tell them where I'm going. It just got to that point where they would call me and they said, okay, what's going on tomorrow? I said, we're going here, we're going here. I've got an appointment here. I said, I'm gonna probably want lunch in Tarzana. So clear a place between one and two. And I would just tell them where we were doing and where we were going. And they. So they knew. And then we had the same crew, which I loved because it became like family year after year after year. And I liked that because they knew the rules. Do leave the door open, the cat's gonna get out. Or, you know, they just knew all of the rules. And it was, you know, season after season, it just became easier and easier. But I think it was an adjustment period for everybody. And at one point they just knew. So you come in at 9 o'clock, you turn the cameras on. And at that time we had two crews. I don't think they ever stand Down. I don't think they ever stood down.
- [15:27]
Andy Cohen
Just keep shooting.
- [15:28]
Jeff Lewis
They just shot all day. So when one crew was gone, the other one came in and they would literally shoot us from, you know, nine to whatever it was, five or six. Now, if something was going on, they would stay. So if they knew that something was going on, it was. That it could have been interesting. They would. They might stay till 8 o'clock at night, but it was. It was long hours. But it wasn't a big deal for me because I was. That's what I was working on.
- [15:55]
Andy Cohen
You're doing it anyway.
- [15:56]
Jeff Lewis
I'm doing it anyway. So it wasn't a big deal for me. So it was never really an imposition.
- [16:01]
Andy Cohen
I loved watching it because I liked that the rhythms of it were off where, like, if you're watching another show, if you're watching Housewives, you kind of know what's gonna be in every episode. Right. Because there's some version of setting up a group event, and then usually the group event will happen, you know, end of the hour and might be continued to the next one. It's fallout from it, whatever. I didn't know what was gonna happen on Flipping out, and I felt, in a good way, the stress of your schedule. So everything you're describing, the viewer experience too, was like, okay, you know, now he's driving with Jenny whoever and is going to, you know, grab El Pollo Loco on his way to his next meeting.
- [16:43]
Jeff Lewis
Yes.
- [16:44]
Andy Cohen
You know, so it was really. It was fun to be there.
- [16:46]
Jeff Lewis
I feed off that kind of chaotic energy and I. I just couldn't imagine not working. I couldn't imagine not being busy. For me, idle time is not good. So I. And I also, in my mind, I have every morning, I kind of in my head what I want to do that day and what I want to get done. And if I don't get a certain many things done, I feel like the day was a failure. I just. I guess that's kind of a type A thing.
- [17:16]
Andy Cohen
So flipping out comes to an end. Were you at that point ready to be done with it? Were you upset about it? What was that like for you?
- [17:26]
Jeff Lewis
I just thought to myself, well, this is what it is. I ultimately got what I wanted, which was, you know, I was able to promote my business, build my business, create other streams of income. Would I have liked to have been. I never wanted to be adored or anything like that, but, you know, a few less hate emails. Yes. Would I have liked to have been more liked? Yes, sure. But I understood. I understood how it went down.
- [17:56]
Andy Cohen
So after Flipping Out, I mean, you've done television. But what I want to focus on is the extraordinary success of your radio show.
- [18:05]
Jeff Lewis
Right.
- [18:06]
Andy Cohen
Because it's the second most popular show on Sirius XM after Howard Stern. And there's actually a lot of similarities to Howard, which I want to talk about as well. I'm a die hard Stern fan and I actually think that people do see a different side of you on that.
- [18:20]
Jeff Lewis
Yes.
- [18:21]
Andy Cohen
So tell me about that. Tell me sort of how that evolved.
- [18:24]
Jeff Lewis
Well, Andy's given me two careers now. Right. So he's one of the people that greenlit Flipping out. And he worked on flipping Out. We actually worked together. He was the. I guess, would you call it the supervising executive? What do you call it?
- [18:38]
Andy Cohen
Yeah, he was like the senior executive.
- [18:40]
Jeff Lewis
On it that oversaw one of his shows was flipping out. So he and I became very close and he always believed in me and supported me. And actually he's the one that had told me, which is some of the best advice I ever got, which I now tell other people. I wasn't entirely self aware when the first season aired and I got a lot of hate, like overwhelming. And he told me, you know, you gotta. After two weeks, he's like, you have to stop reading it. And he goes, you don't believe the good and you don't believe the bad. And I just stopped reading everything. And today I live in a bubble. Like I have no idea what's going on outside these walls. I live in a complete. It is the happiest place on earth.
- [19:25]
Andy Cohen
I wish everyone could do that. And it's the piece of advice we give everyone as they embark on whatever. This is very hard to take before you've been through it. And you almost have to read some of the hate to see how awful it is to realize that you're better off just putting your head in the sand. There's another way of doing it. You can't live like that. And to your point, it fucks you up. On the other side, if you get validation, then you start trying to be the validation instead of being who you are.
- [19:50]
Jeff Lewis
And you start to think you are bigger and more important than you are now. You deserve a raise now. You deserve your own show now. You just because, see, I've got a thousand Instagram comments that say so.
- [20:03]
Andy Cohen
It's very difficult in ensemble series, so especially for the Real Housewives or whatever, I think that the, you know, the interaction with the audience on the whole and social media just fucks everything up. And to me, there's a frustration. Also, sometimes you're watching footage and you'll see the. The wheel spinning. Everyone is thinking about how they're going to be perceived on social media instead of just reacting in the moment, and it's not a good thing.
- [20:29]
Jeff Lewis
I see the benefits in an ensemble cast, and I think, you know, if we're gonna talk about this, There were rumors that there was gonna be a Shah's reboot. They're just rumors. They haven't been confirmed.
- [20:42]
Andy Cohen
I can neither confirm nor deny.
- [20:43]
Jeff Lewis
Right. But what I will tell you is that being a Shah's fan, the most important thing with the Shahs of Sunset is the connection between. And the love between. Between Reza and mj. And that, for me, is the foundation and the core of the entire show. And those two, in my opinion, are the most valuable characters because it is a true, authentic, real love, friendship. And of all of these shows where people try to produce things and they put people together and they try to kind of force these connections, it is. It truly in my mind, is what has been the glue to that show all of these years.
- [21:33]
Andy Cohen
When we recently announced the reboot of Vanderpump Rules, I had a manager that reached out to me and was like, I have a bunch of people for the cast and like, well, do they work at Sir? It's like, no. I'm like, well, but that's the show with an entirely new group of people. And that show, like every other show that we do, that's an ensemble, will live and die with the real relationships that the cast has. And that's why you see in something like A Housewives, if you insert a new person, they either fit in with the group and, you know, varying degrees of relationships with everyone going into it, and it either takes and becomes real. Like, for example, Bozema in Beverly Hills this year.
- [22:11]
Jeff Lewis
Yes.
- [22:12]
Andy Cohen
Or it doesn't.
- [22:14]
Jeff Lewis
It's funny because I didn't think that would work, but I like her. I actually like her individually. Aside from the. I'm drawn to her.
- [22:26]
Andy Cohen
She's so compelling.
- [22:27]
Jeff Lewis
She really is. And she's bright and she's opinionated, and she's strong, and I think she kind of commands respect. And so I think that actually is working for me. But I wanted to say that I think that probably was one of the reasons why Flipping out ended, because I think Jenny and I were kind of the heart of the show. Now, there are a lot of other employees that I'm close to and that I have deep friendships with, but those weren't necessarily spotlit as much as the Jenny Jeff relationship. So I understand why the network felt like, well, where does this go now that Jeff and Jenny have split up? I always knew that there was enough going on in my life where we could rebound and be okay. I mean, it's never going to be exactly the same, but we have all these other relationships. So in regards back to the radio, I felt like when Andy offered me this opportunity, I made it, like, flipping out on the radio. Right. So I took real friendships and real relationships versus just a celebrity guest, and I created this family on the radio. And people are very, very invested in us. And I think it's because they feel like they're hanging out with their friends and, you know, having coffee with a friend. And it's fun to have celebrities on here and there. But I think the real reason for the success of the show is the we call them chumps. That was David Beador who called me. David Beador sent me numerous nasty texts.
- [24:12]
Andy Cohen
I've gotten a few, too.
- [24:13]
Jeff Lewis
He called me a chump, and he said many times, and he said that the people on my radio show were chumps. So it became, you know, Howard Stern has his whack pack, and I now have my chumps. Thanks to David Bedor, we have a name, and it really has stuck. And it's very funny because I'm sure today I'll go to lunch after this and someone will be like, hey, chomp, I'm a chomp. You know, and it's this kind of group that we've created such a throwback reference.
- [24:43]
Andy Cohen
I love it. But no, I. I do think that's what people like about it. And it. It is reminiscent to me of early days, Stern, when it was just hanging out. And usually the celebrities in Stern, to me, were always the. The least interesting part of it because they would come on and be guarded as celebrities are, you know. Although I will say on your show, I like the fact that they're not celebrities. Come on, you're hanging out. You're not talking about their most recent projects.
- [25:08]
Jeff Lewis
Yeah. You're just bullshitting and that. Actually, I think we just had Bella Thorne on recently, and there were all these guard rails from her team, and I was like, I don't plan on talking about that anyway.
- [25:21]
Andy Cohen
Yeah.
- [25:22]
Jeff Lewis
And so she comes on. I don't even talk to Bella. I don't even really talk to Bella about Bella. I just start talking about myself.
- [25:28]
Andy Cohen
Yeah. Just rapping.
- [25:29]
Jeff Lewis
And then she starts kind of jumping in and commenting, which I loved. And then, you know, there was some other drama going on with. With another employee. And we brought it up. She had the best time. I swear to God. She keeps calling me to come back, but. And she is. I think she's booked, right? Yeah. So she's coming back, but she had the best time and because we didn't even talk about. I mean I. I liked her jewelry and I bought a couple pieces for my daughter and. Cause I genuinely liked it and a lot of people bought it as a result. So I'm sure she was very happy about that. But I didn't talk about her. Her personal life or anything. I didn't talk about onlyfans, didn't talk about her exes. I didn't talk about anything.
- [26:04]
Andy Cohen
It's also fun to me and we've talked about this a little bit, but I like the fact that you actually see the good in people or draw that out and people would be surprised. Right. Because that isn't your reputation. But you have guests on that are much more likable in that setting than they are in others.
- [26:23]
Jeff Lewis
I agree. And I think people feel. Sometimes feel more comfortable to share. I don't have an agenda. I'm not out to expose you. I'm not. This isn't Gotcha radio. I want people to have a good experience and then hopefully they'll talk to their friends and their friends will want to come on. But there's certain people that have really come out of their shell. The first person I think of is Crystal Minkoff. Yeah. I think she is so good on my show. I think she's great on radio. We. But we're friends. We've become friends. Right. So we're very comfortable together. So she shares.
- [26:55]
Andy Cohen
It's so fun to me too that that started as a feud.
- [26:57]
Jeff Lewis
Uhhuh.
- [26:59]
Andy Cohen
And then. And you know, you dragged her, called her boring and now.
- [27:03]
Jeff Lewis
Well, she was boring. Yeah, she was boring on that show. She's not a boring person at all. But she was bo. She was edited. She very much was controlled, self controlled. She's very opinionated. She's very smart. She has a very interesting life. She knows a lot of interesting people. And you know what I'm really proud about is that she got. Because of her appearances on my radio show, she was then reached out by Nick Viles Co. And he gave her her own podcast, which is doing very well.
- [27:35]
Andy Cohen
It's great. It showed a different side of her and I've seen that with a bunch of people on your. There's other people that I think are just so. So I'm not a big fan of them and then they just go on your show. They have fun, they're unfiltered and it's cool.
- [27:48]
Jeff Lewis
I don't necessarily always blame you as the producer, but, you know, a lot of people are painted as one dimensional characters. But I also realize it's what they choose to show us. It's not about you all the time.
- [28:02]
Andy Cohen
It's hard. And, you know, sometimes we don't. We fall into the trap too, where you have limited time and so you're telling a story, you're trying to tell it accurately, but you can't tell everything. But I do think that people are self conscious when they think about being on television and there's big cameras and they're being followed around and so you don't always get the person that you've wanted. And it sounds really trite, but we always give the direction, you know, just be yourself and you're sort of here because we like you. And some people just don't shine in that setting. On the other hand, some people can make a meal of being on television and they're really boring in real life, so they just will go nuts. You'll see a different side of them and they're almost like, you know, I don't know, they sort of act out because the cameras are there.
- [28:48]
Jeff Lewis
I've seen less of that just with the Bravo world. I think Bravo's been very good at, you know, curating these incredibly big personalities. And I find that they're. Most of them like the Dorindas, for example, are exactly, exactly as they are in tv. And I love that.
- [29:08]
Andy Cohen
I love that.
- [29:09]
Jeff Lewis
But you're right, there's people like Crystal, for example, was the opposite. I was very pleasantly surprised to get to know her. And she's become. And I told her this, and I'm not, I'm not an email kind of guy, but I told her, I said, you're one of the few people that I've just been. Friendships that I've just been really grateful for. We've just fast. Friendship.
- [29:29]
Andy Cohen
Yeah, I love that. Let's talk for a second about feuds. So because you've picked up a few along the way and then. But. But you also will make up with people.
- [29:39]
Jeff Lewis
Sure.
- [29:39]
Andy Cohen
So it'll. Does it bother you when you have tension with someone or do you just not give a shit?
- [29:46]
Jeff Lewis
Look, it's not that I don't give a shit, but I also, I don't let it rule my life. And I've said this over and over on the radio when I was a kid, I was very sensitive and I would come home and, you know, I'd be upset because someone didn't like me. And my dad used to tell me like on a loop, you're going to run across all these people in your life and it doesn't, no matter, no matter what you do, they're not going to like you. So I kind of learned at a very young age that I'm not going to be liked by everyone. I mean, I didn't expect, you know, flipping out, but I was, but I kind of knew that, you know, there's people you can't win over there for whatever reason. There's gonna be people that, you know, don't like you for certain reasons. So I don't go through life looking for people's approval. Not that I wouldn't want it, but it doesn't wreck my world if I don't get it. Usually I don't go after people unless they deserve it. I don't attack innocent people. So I've had some feuds, yes. With Bravo liberties in the past. I think my current feud is with Bryn Whitfield.
- [30:53]
Andy Cohen
Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that.
- [30:54]
Jeff Lewis
I don't know if that is something that would ever be. I mean, even Heather Dubrow at the end of the day apologized for her role. Right. I think if somebody is not accountable, somebody is really kind of close minded to seeing their role in things. I really can't work with that. I don't see a Bryn Jeff reconciliation ever. Especially after watching the reunion, the Real Housewives New York City reunion. I don't see her as someone who is responsible. She was not going to take responsibility. I don't think there's a lot going on over there, but I don't see that as being reconciled. But with other people in the past, sometimes it takes a little time. I can sit down and I can acknowledge my role and hopefully you do the same and we can meet in the middle and move on. And I think, you know, I don't think Heather Dubrow and I, I mean, you never know. I don't see us being best friends, but I, I saw her perspective, she saw mine. I think we have a mutual respect for each other. I think that we have. I wouldn't say it's, I think we're friendly. I think we're friendly. And I think if I were to see her, I would absolutely go up and give her a hug and talk to her and ask her how she is. And so yes, I, I, when I, when I have these disagreements with people I. It's not necessarily forever.
- [32:16]
Andy Cohen
Where are you and Teresa now?
- [32:18]
Jeff Lewis
We're great.
- [32:19]
Andy Cohen
Good.
- [32:20]
Jeff Lewis
Teresa and I are good. We've had a few conversations at Watch what happens live and we've been able to kind of put our differences aside and I think we're really good. And I think what happened is the turning point was at the watch what happens 15 year anniversary, there was a party after and I didn't really expect much, but I went over and started. She was with Louis. We struck up a conversation. Must have been 35 minutes. And I actually really enjoyed them both. I really enjoyed them both. And we're in a good place now. They even invited me over for dinner.
- [32:59]
Andy Cohen
Oh, that's nice.
- [33:00]
Jeff Lewis
Yeah.
- [33:00]
Andy Cohen
Budding friendship. Who knew?
- [33:02]
Jeff Lewis
We'll see.
- [33:06]
Andy Cohen
Thank you for coming by. It's great to talk to you. Really fun and I hope we get a chance to make the show.
- [33:12]
Jeff Lewis
We'll see. We'll see. I hope so. I'm really kind of surrendering. I'm not going to push anything. If it happens, it happens. I've learned that if it's not this, it'll be something else. It's kind of. I'm a very controlling person, so it's very hard for me to do that. I would really love to see this happen, but I'm not attached to a particular outcome. I mean, don't say I wouldn't work or I wouldn't talk to who I need to talk to or whatever to try, but I also not attached to a particular. Any particular outcome.
- [33:47]
Andy Cohen
Well, I know what you mean, because it is. It's completely out of your control and so want it to happen. Hoping it happens, but all you can do is try to make it happen and then it either does or doesn't.
- [33:58]
Jeff Lewis
Right. And then like I said, when you change your mindset and you come from a place of gratitude and you realize that you're not entitled to anything, is I feel like when you are rewarded and when other opportunities show up.
- [34:12]
Andy Cohen
Well, I haven't gotten there yet, but I'll take your word for it.
- [34:14]
Jeff Lewis
Yeah, yeah. So if. If it doesn't go the way that I hope it will go, I'm not gonna burn the house down. I'll just walk away and with gratitude. And again, Bravo's been very good to me. 11 years, three different shows. I mean, I've had closest to a career as a reality star as anyone. Even though we both know it's not a real career, it's short lived, let's put it that way. It's a career but it's short lived.
- [34:44]
Andy Cohen
Well, but you've used it as part of your broader career. So, you know, that's the other thing that I would say is then it's a, as a vehicle, it can be something that is enduring, I think, as a career on its own. Usually not.
- [34:57]
Jeff Lewis
Agreed.
- [34:58]
Andy Cohen
For an exclusive segment of my interview with Jeff Lewis, let's talk a little bit about the project that we're developing. What does it mean to you? To come back to Bravo, I had.
- [35:08]
Jeff Lewis
A little bit of FOMO.
- [35:10]
Andy Cohen
Go to bravotv.com podcast.