2025 Beauty Year-in-Review: Best (and Worst!) Products, Viral Celeb Moments and the Creator Wars Taking Over the Group Chat

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast

Episode: 2025 Beauty Year-in-Review: Best (and Worst!) Products, Viral Celeb Moments and the Creator Wars Taking Over the Group Chat

Hosts: Jill Dunn & Carlene Higgins
Date: December 17, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this energetic, insider-packed 2025 year-in-review episode, veteran beauty editors-turned-podcasters Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins reflect on the year's most memorable beauty product launches (and flops), pop culture moments, shifting industry trends, notable creator drama, and the evolving landscape for expert- and celebrity-led beauty brands. The episode offers equal parts snarky commentary, genuine excitement, and critical industry analysis, making it a must-listen (or read!) for anyone curious about what shaped beauty this year and where it’s headed next.

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Key Discussion Points & Highlights

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1. Reflections on 2025: Guests, Growth, and Staying Relevant

• Jill and Carlene recall standout guests from the year, including Lisa Eldridge, Bobby Brown, Chris McMillan, and Ash K. Holm. Lisa's episode remains a fan favorite, even if "people say they hate my voice on YouTube with Lisa, but they love her. And I'm okay with that because they still got to share couch time with Lisa." (Jill, 01:01)
• They celebrate nearly a decade of podcasting and reflect on the ever-expanding beauty news cycle:

  "There's never a shortage of things to talk about. We could do a daily episode, honestly." (Jill, 01:36)

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2. Drugstore Innovation & Hair Shedding: Pantene’s New Launch

• The hosts discuss a Pantene press event and meeting trichologist/content creator Abby Young, who praised affordable solutions for hair shed:

  "This serum in particular helps to, like, you can basically bypass the seasonal shed with this serum." (Abby via Carlene, 04:52)

• Jill teases a future episode with Pantene scientist Dr. Jenny Thomas to explain "how drugstore products are actually legit and really good because they have popped off in the past couple years." (Jill, 05:20)

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3. Biggest Beauty Moments & Viral Trends (09:35 - 13:55)

The “Cunty Little Bob” & Pop Culture’s Haircut of the Year

• Jill's favorite beauty moment:

  "...It was the cunty little bob. It married all my favorite things: pop culture, beauty, Hollywood red carpet experts, viral moments. And it was—it had a life of its own." (Jill, 09:56)

• Shoutout to hairdresser Chris McMillan and Leslie Bibb for the style, and to the longevity of expert-led trends.

Rise of the Expert-Led Brands

• Carlene introduces the “Year of the Expert,” a notable trend:

  "This year it really was about the actual glam squad. Not the celebrities, but the people actually doing the hair, doing the makeup—Hung Vanngo, Chris McMillan, Mary Phillips." (Carlene, 11:15)

• Discussion on rising consumer trust for products from makeup artists/hair stylists versus traditional celebrity brands.

Waning Celebrity Beauty Brands

• Noting the decline of celebrity lines: Kylie Jenner, Hailey Bieber, Gwen Stefani, JLo, Kate Moss.
• Jill: "Now, in order for [Kylie] to make any kind of inroads...everybody's like, let's go back to the King Kylie era and the pink hair and sell a few lip kits, because she doesn't have the innovation or the expertise." (Jill, 13:07)
• Carlene: "Not everyone needs a skincare line, guys." (Carlene, 16:13)
• Disagreement over the legitimacy of celebrity beauty ventures, with Jill defending their business acumen under capitalism and Carlene labeling money-grabs as "weak."

What Makes a Brand Last?

• The importance of solid teams, marketing, and holistic approaches:

  "Ideas are free. It's the execution and the marketing. And if nobody knows about your idea, good luck." (Jill, 19:14)

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4. The Biggest Flops & Industry Shifts (20:16 - 25:53)

The DEI Backpedal

• Jill’s "biggest flop" is the industry's retreat from DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion) commitments:

  "The complete backpedaling on DEI—I think it is so problematic. I think it's bad for business." (Jill, 20:20)

• Cites Target’s financial losses and shuttered BIPOC-founded brands like Ami Colé, Youthforia.

Brand Turmoil & Legacy Brand Struggles

• Discussion of large conglomerates offloading iconic brands (Coty selling CoverGirl, Kenvue selling Neutrogena/Aveeno, Unilever dropping Kate Somerville).
• Jill: "Even MAC—oh my God, MAC can't get arrested now. ...They actually are hemorrhaging money and so is the parent company, Estée Lauder." (Jill, 25:12)
• Perfume and skincare seen as the new industry growth engines: "The growth—it's writing on the wall. Every big conglomerate thinks it's perfume." (Jill, 25:36)

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5. Bright Spots & Surprises: Ami Colé’s Jara Joins Skims

• Carlene highlights a positive surprise: Jara joining Kim Kardashian’s SKIMS Beauty as EVP of beauty and fragrance.

  "It just has put this really likable gloss onto Skims Beauty. It's actually a genius move." (Carlene, 27:28)

• Acknowledges the Kardashians’ enduring centrality in beauty culture.

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6. The Gen X Movement & Influencer Evolution (31:29 - 32:34)

• Shoutout to products and content aimed at Gen X women, with Carlene's own brand Cassatt and Sarah Creel’s products seeing wider acceptance and success.
• Carlene: "There's still like room to grow...lots of room to grow" among Gen X influencers. (Carlene, 32:33)

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7. Transparency & Cosmetic Surgery Normalization (32:51 - 37:17)

• Growing trend: creators and celebs openly share their surgery/facelift experiences on TikTok and elsewhere (the "Guadalajara facelift lady," Simone Biles, Kylie Jenner).
• Jill applauds the normalization: "The girlies are sharing their secrets. ...If people are interested...more knowledge is power." (Jill, 35:54)
• Surgeons like Dr. Steven Levine become household names as celebrity procedures gain visibility.

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8. Beauty Marketing in 2025: The Good, The Bad & The Overexposed (37:18 - 44:45)

Egregious Product Placement

• Jill calls out over-the-top beauty product placements in scripted TV (e.g., Estée Lauder in "Nobody Wants This"; Oribe in "All's Fair"):

  "...It wasn't like, cool...this was like, close up shot, dropping the bottle, naming the product, putting it on." (Jill, 38:41)

• Discusses double standards in ad disclosure versus influencer content.

The Return of Creative Advertising

• Carlene celebrates a resurgence of artful, creative ads ("like the Ordinary's Periodic Fable," Fern perfume's playful campaign, Charlotte Tilbury with Celine Dion):

  "What I like about it is this return to creativity...there needs to be something richer going on." (Carlene, 42:38)

• The push towards emotion and artistic vision that goes beyond “soulless" scientific branding.

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9. The Creator Economy: Drama, Evolution, and Substack's Rise (46:55 - 51:07)

• Dissatisfaction with Instagram/affiliate-hype; tension between influencer loyalty and their role in brand marketing.
• The “creator wars:” callout rows between prominent educators and chemists like Charlotte Palermino, Dr. Michelle Wong (Lab Muffin), Jen Navakovic (The Eco Well) become "schoolyard yucky."

  "It feels like a little schoolyard yucky...the best thing is...stay focused on what you're doing. Don't worry about what other people are doing. Stay focused on what you're doing and let people make their own choices." (Carlene, 50:27)

• Substack hailed as a return to thoughtful, magazine-style commentary over the snarky, rapid-fire commentary of social media.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On viral haircuts:

  "It was the cunty little bob. ...It really is the antidote to like a lot of the Mormon wives hair that we also see out there. It's very liberating to cut your hair off into a bob." (Jill, 09:56)

• On the glut of celebrity beauty:

  "Not everyone needs a skin care line, guys." (Carlene, 16:13) "I think there's nothing wrong. We live in capitalism. ...Why would you say no? If a thing is coming across your desk, it's just another business venture." (Jill, 16:38)

• On the DEI backslide:

  "It's bullshit when a retailer makes promises and then acts like they never happened and people are going to go elsewhere." (Carlene, 21:08)

• On the beauty influencer landscape:

  "Instagram can feel like one big ad on occasion. ...It's eroded the trust and I think there's a lot of people on, like, no buy missions as a backlash." (Jill, 47:06)

• On creator drama:

  "It feels like a little schoolyard yucky...let people make their own choices. They're not dumb. Period. Period." (Carlene, 50:27)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment / Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:00 | Reflecting on top guests and nearly ten years podcasting | | 03:00 | Pantene event, Abby Young, accessible hair-thinning innovation | | 09:52 | Jill’s beauty moment: “cunty little bob,” rise of stylists and expert creators | | 11:15 | Celebrity brands vs. expert-led lines; the “Year of the Expert” | | 20:20 | Biggest flop: DEI backpedal, brand closings | | 25:12 | Legacy brands struggle—MAC, Estée Lauder, perfume/skincare boom | | 27:28 | Bright spot: Ami Colé’s Jara heads to SKIMS Beauty | | 31:29 | Gen X influencer and product market grows | | 32:51 | Transparency in cosmetic procedures among creators and celebs | | 37:18 | Product placement in scripted TV—"Nobody Wants This," disclosure double standards | | 41:08 | Return of high-impact, creative ad work in beauty marketing | | 46:55 | Influencer fatigue, substack’s rise, creator feuds in science/education circles | | 50:27 | Carlene’s advice: "the cream always rises to the top...don’t worry about others" |

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Concluding Thoughts

The 2025 beauty landscape, as chronicled by Jill and Carlene, is volatile and compelling: icons fall, experts rise, authenticity and integrity are market differentiators, and the most memorable movements happen at the intersection of pop culture, influencer drama, and genuine creativity. Whether you're nostalgic for the King Kylie era, obsessed with bobs and facelifts, or just looking for your next #DamnGood beauty product, this episode distills the year’s biggest conversations into bite-sized brilliance.

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For full product details, promo codes, and more, visit breakingbeautypodcast.com or join the conversation on their Instagram and private Facebook group.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

The following podcast is a Dear media production.

[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all.

[Narrator/Announcer]

About the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty.

[Carlene Higgins]

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast, everyone. I'm one of your co hosts, Jill Dunn, and I'm here alongside Carlene Higgins in studio. Hey, Carlene.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hi, Jill. Hi, everyone.

[Jill Dunn]

And of course, we are two longtime magazine beauty editors turned beauty podcasters, and we are doing a solo episode today. Everybody. You know, we're always bringing you the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. And we talked to so many amazing people this year. Carlene, like, how many incredible guests.

[Carlene Higgins]

Lisa Eldridge was like, a bucket list.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Person to have on our podcast. The fact that we finally got her on, like, high five.

[Jill Dunn]

Just. Yes. She was incredible. We still get so much traction.

[Carlene Higgins]

Bobby Brown, about that.

[Jill Dunn]

I mean, people say they hate my voice on our YouTube with Lisa, but they love her. And I'm okay with that because they still got to share couch time with Lisa. And I know I'm annoying compared to her.

[Carlene Higgins]

And we landed her.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Okay, we landed her on a North.

[Carlene Higgins]

American beauty podcast in the year 2025.

[Narrator/Announcer]

After she launched her line.

[Carlene Higgins]

So give us some credit, all right?

[Jill Dunn]

I know, I know, I know. I'm. I know I'm more annoying than Lisa. Okay? She has the most incredible voice on the planet and the sweete. His face. And Bobby Brown was incredible. Chris McMillan was incredible. Ash K. Holm. Carolyn Badino.

[Carlene Higgins]

Killer year. My goodness.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And, you know, we're just.

[Carlene Higgins]

I do say so we're going into.

[Jill Dunn]

Year nine next year, and we still have people on our bucket list that we want to chat with. And of course, you know, as beauty editors, we always. We're always kind of assessing the market, the landscape in beauty. There's never a shortage of things to talk about. And that's why we love doing this podcast, because there's. We could do a daily episode, honestly.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jill Dunn]

With the amount of beauty news that's out there and product news and celebrity news, the. Just the pace.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. You know, but what we're doing today is we're going to look back at the year. We're going to talk about the highs and lows in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

We're just pausing for a minute from doing the interviewing, from reviewing products, and we're just gonna chat, and we're gonna get kind of spicy, I think, today.

[Jill Dunn]

Carlene, I'm so glad that we get to sit together in studio. You know, I love being in New York when we have the Today rights in Here.

[Carlene Higgins]

Tell me about it. Oh, my gosh. Yes. And we had the best night last night. Courtesy of our friends at Pantene, who.

[Jill Dunn]

Here for a little press trip.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, we're here for a little press trip and it was really fun. We're. We're going to talk about it more in an upcoming episode, but we got to meet Abby Young in person.

[Jill Dunn]

I had met her once before, but I can, I can say one year later, her hair is just as good and glossy.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes, exactly. So she was on a panel and Abby Young has been on our show before. She is a trichologist and a educator.

[Jill Dunn]

Content creator.

[Carlene Higgins]

Content creator.

[Jill Dunn]

Young method.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And she's really known to be a drugstore hair girly. And I think people just love that because she brings a lot of credibility to the space and people love that they can afford solutions for their hair. So it was just so great to see, see her there in person and a little bit of a sneak peek, guys. So Pantene is. They are introducing a three piece line that all has to do with reducing hair shedding.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And it's a topic that we have touched on before in the past for sure. But the thing about it is usually these solutions that are being put forward and that we've talked about, they're expensive as hell.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, I also think at the drugstore level, there are medications.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Or there are, there are things to make your hair grow. Whereas I think the whole conversation around keeping the hair in the follicle on your head for longer was very much from like salon brands and luxe brands.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Which we have chatted about on this show before. But I love that Panten is coming into this space and you just know that anything that PNG does, that's the parent company. It's like we as beauty editors have been to enough launches that we know it's like they are crossing their TE's. Everyone, they're dotting their eyes to like the most nerdy extents. Always use Pantene. You guys know that this product line is all about keeping the, the hairs in your follicles happier for longer. And we did the whole thing. We like got to feel. They basically said after six weeks, the. It was like 6,000 strands they saved per person.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. After eight weeks. But I want to tell you one thing that when we talk, when we chatted with Abby, because she was on the panel.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And we had said to her, we're like lowkey, like, what is it? What is it about this that you love? Like, what's the real Talk. You know, we're all about real talk.

[Jill Dunn]

And.

[Carlene Higgins]

And she's like, here's the thing. She's like, I don't have hair thinning. Everybody knows that. But everybody has the seasonal shed. I don't know if you guys have heard about the seasonal shed. So once in the fall, a little bit in the spring, your hair is going to come out more. And she's like, this serum in particular helps to, like, you can basically bypass the seasonal shed with this serum. So I was like, okay, I'm listening. So anyway, that was kind of the real talk. Like creator to creator.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

That made me perk up my ears. But we actually, while we're here in New York, are recording with the scientist, Dr. Jenny Thomas. Yes. Who's behind this Pantene creation. So we're going to do a full episode where she's educating on, like, the latest findings and how, you know, that drugstore products are actually legit and really good because they have popped off in the past couple years. And so that episode will be coming out in the new year, so we'll be able to share all then. But in the meantime. Yeah, that's what's going on. That's what we were doing last night, in addition to eating some crispy pasta. That was delicious.

[Jill Dunn]

It was crispy?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. The one you didn't have at Scarpetta.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, I see.

[Carlene Higgins]

It was the. The agnolotti, and it was like, crispy and delicious.

[Jill Dunn]

Incredible. Well, anyway, so that's that. But now we're gonna go hold hands around the holiday tree at Rockefeller center and sing carols. No, we're not. But last year I did drag Carlene to the Rockettes, and she was lukewarm about it. So I won't force you to do any holiday things in. But yeah, it was. It was great to be back in the city. So let's keep going and chat about our some of the biggest moments in 2025.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, let's get into it.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Caroline Boudino]

Have you ever looked in the mirror and not recognized yourself?

[Jill Dunn]

Me too.

[Caroline Boudino]

Hi, I'm Caroline Boudino from Instagram Shop with Caroline and host of Coming in Hot. This tough New Yorker who swore she would never depend on a man, lives to wear all her jewels and look fabulous. Let everyone else's expectations of being a mom, a wife, a daughter to Cuban parents take priority. I finally put my oxygen mask on first and took the biggest bet of my life. Join me every Monday on coming in Hot to deep dive on finding your own happy tools and living your best life, too. Yes, we can.

[Jill Dunn]

I love. Oh, yeah. Wait a minute.

[Carlene Higgins]

We've had quite a few overarching themes this year, but there if there was one kind of moment, beauty moment that you felt was really pivotal for you this year, something that just stopped you in your tracks and you're like this. This is a moment. What would it be?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, I'm. It's not that deep.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

But I think it was really fun.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And it was the cunty little bob. Ah.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

The white lotus moment.

[Jill Dunn]

It married all my favorite Things, which is pop culture, which is beauty, which is Hollywood red carpet experts, viral moments. And it was. It had a life of its own. And I think it inspired a lot of bobs. And I think it really is the antidote to like a lot of the Mormon wives hair that we also see out there. It's very liberating to cut your hair off into a bob. And thank you to Chris McMillan and Leslie Bibb for creating the Country Little Bob. And it then also I feel like really was a great moment for Chris McMillan.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

To then be able to say I'm still here as a career hairstylist.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Creating these moments that go viral and then launching his whole lineup, which all the products are great.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. And they're legit.

[Jill Dunn]

Think this also kind of spills into my next point was just like I think the year of the Expert. I was really thrilled to see that come back with Hung Van Gogh with Chris McMillan, with Mary Phillips, with I'm blanking. But there was other industry experts that came. It came out with their own products. And I think that really is a huge shift.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Compared to what we've been seeing.

[Carlene Higgins]

We have this vision which may or may not be true, which is that there's some businessman walking around with a briefcase and knocking on celebrities doors and going, look, we have the math knowing that you have this many followers, that we can make this much money, we can sell this many units, we can make this much money. So here's like we're going to connect you with this turnkey operation and it's going to be so easy for you to create your celebrity beauty brand. And I feel like that's at least metaphorically what it seemed like was happening. And maybe before somewhere in there was also influencers had a moment which is definitely seemed to have died down. Now it's about the cream is really risen to the top. But this year it really was about the actual glam squad. So not the celebrities themselves, the Kim Kardashians of it all, but the people who are actually doing their hair, doing their makeup. An extension of of that is who we're now seeing come to the forefront with Hung Van Gogh. Yeah, his launch in September was so great. He's a Canadian makeup artist and he's been on our show. But a beautiful line. And I think for the most part what we've seen is are really great product formulations because it's a makeup artist making makeup. It's a hair legitimate hair artist making hair products. So versus a celebrity. Maybe it's like that Assurance that these products are going to be really effing good is just so much higher. There's so much trust that it can. So much more trust that a consumer would have that it is past this vetting process of being what we would say is hashtag damn good. So, yeah, there's definitely a whole kind of crew.

[Jill Dunn]

I think it's also interesting to see a celebrity brand like Kylie that was on top for so long and she had to dig back into the 2016 era to make any splash this year. And like, the timelines of nostalgia, that's a big thing. I've noticed. Just in general, in culture is so much shorter. It used to be like a generation. Right. And now, in order for her to make any kind of inroads or get any kind of buzz, everybody's like, let's go back to the King Kylie era and the pink hair.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

And sell a few lip kits. Because she doesn't have the innovation or the expertise. I think a lot of these brands have really quieted down, so it'll be interesting to see. And then, of course, celebrity beauty, Hailey Bieber going into Sephora was a massive, massive deal. We'll see how that nets out. You know, I have my opinions on that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and I think that just the ones we're really highlighting is. Is it. It all comes back to that idea of the cream rising to the top. And, you know, because of that, we have seen some of these celebrity brands that have started to go away.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, Gwen Stefani, JLo's pretty questionable these days. Like, just when you thought that it was dead in the water, though, she, like, apparently they launched under eye patches a few weeks ago, which she went on social media and put them on.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Over top of her makeup.

[Carlene Higgins]

That doesn't help credibility, guys.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. I just think she's a huge name and she's. She's very aspirational. So I think no matter how many times it changes hands, I'd be very surprised if JLo Beauty all it. If it ever had a final nail on the coffee.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Really?

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I don't know.

[Jill Dunn]

She hit so many demos. The right age, the huge Latin following, she. She's not going anywhere.

[Carlene Higgins]

She will be on paper. I cannot name a single person who uses it that I know of, who has ever told me that they enjoy any one of those products. Don't know a single soul.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

But that's just me. Whereas with other lines, I wouldn't say that's true. Now, another brand that I see on the list of brand goodbyes for celebrities. Kate Moss's brand. Did that go bye by.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. No, no, no. Surprise.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Okay, well, news flash.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, sorry about that, Kate.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, well, it was weird. It was like all lotions and potions, cosmos. Like it made, it made no sense. I'm sorry. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I also think it was weird with the distribution. Like it launched in a very sideways type of a way. I, it felt mishandled, I'm gonna say.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, because in theory, wasn't it some perfumes and aroma college type stuff?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And skin care.

[Jill Dunn]

It was beauty meets wellness.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Is really where she was trying to go.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, it kind of started on the, I mean, that's not the best fit there.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, sure. Anyway, that we wish her luck on her next, next endeavor. I'm sure she can write that off because I mean, she's still the face, she's still fronting like Isabel Moran. She's in Zara campus and stuff. Like she's, she's not worried about her, but.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

That was clearly a mistake.

[Carlene Higgins]

Not everyone needs a skin care line, guys. Or a beauty line. This is, this is the thing that I, and I've talked to you about this before. When it comes to celebrity, beauty is just like, especially some of these people. Like when I think about a jlo, it's just to me, why do you need this much money? Like, you already have your hands in so many pockets. Can you leave some for the rest of us?

[Jill Dunn]

I don't, I don't buy into that at all. I think, I think there's nothing wrong. We live in capitalism. We, we, we are in capitalism, whether you like it or not. And why, why would you say no? If a, a thing is coming across your desk, it's just another business venture.

[Carlene Higgins]

Because it's so transparent. When it's a money grab, it's weak. That's why it's weak. I actually hold less respect for those people because I think that it's, it's just so inauthentic. It makes them look weak. I think it, it kind of, it looks bad on their image and their image is everything.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, I again disagree because Martha Stewart and JLO are laughing all the way to the bank.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, we don't know, we don't know the numbers behind JLo. I do think that Martha Stewart came along with the Second wave where they started partnering with really high profile dermatologists, which I think is another point in the conversation this year when we talk about these expert LED brands and there are like, everybody in his uncle is starting a skin care line. Of course, I launched a skincare product this year myself. I'm just a lowly beauty editor, but one of the things that I can say is nobody functions in a silo. Like, it's not possible to create your own line and wear every hat and be the cosmetic chemist, be the marketer, be this, be that. So I think it's a little, in a way, misleading to think that because this person is a makeup artist, is definitely going to be the best makeup line. It takes a village. It takes a village to create everything. Some of my favorite makeup lines, like Hourglass, she's not a makeup artist. She is a killer product developer. Developer, you know, And. And she who's been on our show has said because she's not a makeup artist, she wants the mat. The makeup artist to be in the makeup, you know, so. And that can happen, too. Like, I would argue with Mary Phillips, the contour kit, you know, I used it. I think it's interesting. Is it one of the best products that launched this year? I will say no. And we've had some products that have launched that, you know, is it a guarantee? It's going to be great for every skin tone, all of that. So everybody plays a role. And like some esthetician brands, if they don't have a good business person behind them or a marketer, that brand will never go outside of their. Their skincare studio.

[Jill Dunn]

Do you know what I mean? Well, I've always. I've said it many times, ideas are free. It's the execution and the marketing. And if nobody knows about your idea, good luck.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, I think at the end of the day, and this is my humble opinion, it's about building a really strong team.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, of course.

[Carlene Higgins]

And, you know, like, finding the cosmetic chemist, or if you're the cosmetic chemist, that you have to find your opposite. Everybody has to work with their opposite.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

To make it pop. And those people who build the best team as a whole will have the best brands. That's my humble opinion.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. No, I think that is the rule book. But it's hard to do.

[Carlene Higgins]

It is very hard to do. I think that's the real talent.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Is to think holistically. And I think that the siloing and I. I will acknowledge, like, this is a trend. This is what's happening, but it doesn't mean that it's a guarantee for magic.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, no, there's a lot of factors, plus tariffs. Anyway, what are we going to talk about next?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

What would you say is the biggest flop, beauty flop of the year. Jill.

[Jill Dunn]

I think it's something I would say is a concept more than a moment or a product, but I think just the complete backpedaling on dei, I think it is so problematic. I think it's bad for business first and foremost. We've seen that with Target. Their, their bottom line has been massively affected by not living up to their DEI initiatives. And it's one thing if there's companies out there that never assess, never aspired to that and never got on board and like, whatever they're gonna do them, but I think the fact that certain companies out there aspired to it, created programming around it, or committed to like the 15 pledge, and then they're like, you know what? We're, it's too much and we can just roll it all back. And I think that's a huge flop. And it, it is bad for business.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, it's a bad look. And it goes back to what, what we said before about authenticity. And I know that word is thrown. Integrity. I'm going to say integrity instead of authenticity. I think that what, in this day and age, when this market, this beautiful industry that we have the privilege to work in is so cluttered, it. There's so much going on. And when we talk about the cream rising to the top and when we talk about brand loyalty, which I think we'll get into more as we talk about this and like, what people value, what they're going to hold on to instead of dispose of, it is about integrity to me. And I think maybe integrity is the new authenticity, because I think that that's what people are going to hold on to. And whether you're talking about a brand or a retailer, that counts for a lot. And it's, it's bullshit when a retailer makes promises and then acts like they never happened and people are going to go elsewhere, especially now when there's like TikTok marketplace and all of these things, like, they don't need. You don't even necessarily need a, a retailer, like, to, to buy your stuff if you want. I mean, you need some sort of retail, but you could, you know, but there's. We're not as reliant as we used to be.

[Jill Dunn]

And you know, whether you like Sephora or not, like, they're making major moves in affiliate marketing to make it so that you have the creator storefronts that they rolled out this year. It basically means like, you know, that's how they're treating influencers. And if you are an Influencer. And you, you know, have a certain set of beliefs and your followers follow you. Because of that, you're not going to be linking to Target. I'm sorry.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

You know, it's. It's just the whole ecosystem is changing rapidly, and I think that that was just a huge gaff. And I also am interested in the repercussions of people. Sorry, how do I want to phrase this? But I'm interested in the repercussions of how dei, you know, it seemed to take these really big steps forward and now. And then there's these steps back, like youth Foria closing, which I think had to happen because they just didn't even try to acknowledge their mistakes and do better. And then very unfortunately, you know, Amicole folding as well. And I know we know Jada will be back and better than ever, but I just think that was an example of where maybe she was promised the moon. She wrote about that and it didn't. People that were excited about that three years ago all of a sudden weren't so excited anymore.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And I think to your point, that's going to just become very glaringly obvious if you're trying to stand for something, but you don't, actually.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And I also just think there's seismic shifts happening in this industry right now. You know, and you're. A lot of bipoc founders are particularly vulnerable because they didn't have the support necessarily from the outset. But when you are seeing that Cody is trying to Coty, the huge conglomerate is trying to unload CoverGirl and Rimmel because it's dragging down their bottom line, you're just like, what is happening? Those are iconic brands. And same thing with Ken View looking to sell off Neutrogena and Aveeno.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Unilever Unloading Kate Somerville.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Kering selling all of their fragrances to l'. Oreal. I just think we are in a moment, a very different moment than we were five years ago. So just a lot of shifting happening. And, you know, even Mac. Oh, my God, Mac. Can't get arrested now. Like, it can't. Like, they just keep hemorrhaging money. And it's so unfortunate. They can't elaborate. They're just not breaking through. They've had loss after loss after loss. Yeah. So I just think that it's. I feel like these legacy brands are struggling.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Especially in color cosmetics. They actually are hemorrhaging money.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And so is the parent company, Estee Lauder. And what did Estee Lauder acquire this year? Xeno X, I, N, U. Which is the. If you're not subscribed to our substack, subscribe. It's the perfume house I wrote about when I went to Mexico.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, interesting.

[Jill Dunn]

And they snapped them up. So I think that the growth. It's riding on the wall. Every big conglomerate thinks it's perfume.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

So make of that what you will, but. And then l' Oreal snapping up Medicaid. So I think perfume and skincare is still.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Big. So anyhow, that's. Yeah. So that would be my biggest flop of the year. And it encompasses a lot.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Well, I mean, you touched on this, but I think the best beauty surprise for me was that Jara will be going to skims because I think that everyone was so disappointed about the. The Ami Kole moment. And so I think it's just, like, knowing that she is so talented, the fact that this may not be her own thing, but, like, she's gonna kill it in that role.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And also, so skims beauty. Skims beauty. And I think it's such a brilliant move for skims beauty because, as we've talked about. So celebrity beauty has to take a lot of boxes now to get cred. Like it really does. As we've talked about, they've upped the ante. It's no longer just them alone. They need to have a dermatologist. They need to have an esthetician. Like Victoria Beckham partners with estheticians for her. You know what I mean? Because she knows that she doesn't have that skin care crowd. So it's. It's very smart. And I think for skims beauty, it was kind of like an immediate eye roll where it's just like, how is this going to be any better than before? So to have Jara in that role, she's the executive VP of beauty and fragrance at skims. Is giving that credibility and bringing in somebody who's very likable and. And everyone's rooting for her, period. This is what I mean. So it's like. Yeah, it just has put this really likable gloss onto skims beauty. So it's. It's actually a genius move.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. I mean, why does every story come back to the Kardashians or the Jenners?

[Carlene Higgins]

I know.

[Jill Dunn]

It just does. It's so. It's so wild.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Today's episode is brought to you in part by Quince. Okay, I have kind of an embarrassing confession to make. My dog ate my neighbor's cashmere beanie, and I felt really bad about it, but Like a new one would have been so expensive. So I found the perfect solution. Of course, it's quints. It always comes back to Quince. They carry a Mongol Mongolian cashmere ribbed beanie. It's unisex. It comes in two sizes. It's $40 Canadian, $34.90 US like start the car. So it's butter soft, pure Grade A Mongolian cashmere. But it's such an inexpensive price, and that's what I love about quints. It's the best place to stock up on good quality staples when you're paying a fraction of what you would pay elsewhere. And what's great about that is it's not fast fashion either. By working directly with trusted factories that maintain high standards for both craftsmanship and ethical practices, and by cutting out the middleman and markups, that's how Quince is able to pass those savings on straight to us. So I really appreciate that. There's so much more in the way of staples that you can get there too, like denim that goes with everything. Silk tops and skirts for the holidays, cashmere scarves, down jackets, wool coats. Like all the good stuff, it's just, it's the best thing that came to Canada recently, I have to say, in the way of retailers.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm so excited about it.

[Narrator/Announcer]

So find gifts so good you'll want to keep them with quince. Go to quince.com breaking beauty for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com breaking beauty to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com breaking beauty seed is supporting our show this week.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

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[Jill Dunn]

You know, we've talked about this a lot. I think another thing that we can't talk about 20, 25 beauty and not mention is just the Gen X movement, how it continues to be so huge, how Sarah Creel's products have connected with people and your brand that's come out and been so well received, that's dedicated for women over. Yeah, dedicated for women over 40. Cassattbeauty.com use promo code BEAUTY15.

[Carlene Higgins]

We came up with a promo code. Everyone you can use [e-mail] to save 15 have to give back to our breaking beauty listeners.

[Jill Dunn]

If people want to try it, Believers. Yeah, people want to try it. They have to.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

A little incentive to do it. Yeah, do it for our girlies here. But yeah, I think Gen X is still, still a very powerful demo that people are waking up to. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

I think especially in the influencer space, like in the brand space, it's happening and we've talked about that. We knew it was coming. But I think in the influencer space there's been some headlines about that. The fact that they're like the next ones to get. There hasn't been that many.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Gen X creators that you could name from the past decade. Aside from like Grace Ghanam. Erica Taylor is probably the Taylor for sure. But there's still like room to grow. There's, there's lots of room to grow. Okay, what else was kind of new. New this year, Jill?

[Jill Dunn]

Well, it's interesting on the heels of our episode that came out last week when we talked about everything to do with blepharoplasty and your wonderful Dr. Babak Maleki was on our show and you kind of revealed your journey with that. But I just think in general we're seeing a lot more transpar currency around cosmetic surgery. I know it's not for everybody, but certainly this year we saw. My most riveting thing I was watching on Tick Tock this year was the Guadalajara facelift lady. What's that lady? And I don't know her name off the top of my head, but I'm sure most of our listeners will know if you are on TikTok or social media at all. She went to Guadalajara and basically got a new face that looked like herself, but like from 20 years ago for a fraction of what it had cost in America. And so the Guadalajara facelift lady was trending and she looked incredible. And it was just fascinating to see how many people in the comments were like, I'm going to be going there. And it was a whole setup. It's like the hospital, the aftercare, whatever. And I think it was maybe $10,000. Wow. I'm going to show you the before and after here. This woman, and keep in mind, this woman had had been, I believe by her own language, overweight. She had lost a significant amount of weight and so she had a lot of skin sagging in her face. So this was her on the top left.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Wow.

[Jill Dunn]

And this is her in the bottom right. Afterward. And Right. I don't know if I can show everybody. If it really shows up, we'll link.

[Carlene Higgins]

To it on our blog on our website.

[Jill Dunn]

And the headline in real self here is Guadalajara's hottest Facelift trend is Turning Heads. And everybody's just like, transformation is incredible. And she documented everything, like when her head was like, like wrapped.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And all of the good, the bad, the ugly, and she looks amazing. And I think it's just fascinating that people are sharing their personal journeys like you were last week. But also celebrities are coming forth and saying, you know, Simone Biles talked about her blepharoplasty.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And in the comments.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

What did Kylie talked about?

[Carlene Higgins]

Kylie Jenner?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

She talked about her boob job earlier this year. Somebody, somebody asked in her comments just because she had a new very. She had a new look.

[Jill Dunn]

Right? Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And somebody came in the comments and said, why don't you just tell us what you did to get that? Like what kind of boob job you got already.

[Jill Dunn]

You just wrote the comment.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, was that what it was? Yeah, she wrote the comments and it.

[Jill Dunn]

Said, I got 44, 4.5cc silicone implants placed half under the muscle. Muscle with Dr. Garth Fisher. Now I'm sure that was music to Dr. Garth Fisher's ears because obviously with HIPAA you can't tell like when you can't share about Jenner is your, your client. But she revealed it and it was as simple as that. A tick tock comment or Instagram.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, exactly. So that felt like a moment.

[Jill Dunn]

I believe that Alex Earl did the same, something similar as well. So I like normalizing it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. The girlies are sharing their secrets.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

And, and it doesn't mean it's for everybody.

[Jill Dunn]

You know, it's not probably going to be for me, but if people are interested in doing it, I guess more knowledge is power. Although, you know, watching Pluribus, I do wonder if ignorance is bliss sometimes, you know?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. I mean, and, and just on that note, it was obviously the year of, of the facelift, which we talked about many times this year. So we, we won't go into it in great detail, but it does seem that, I mean, every time it's kind of like what Ozempic was last year where every time I turn around I'll see a celebrity where I'm like, I think that she just had a facelift. I think she just had a facelift because it just, it is that noticeable, that sudden like, oh, they look 10 years younger. And I think it's just, it's just everywhere. It's kind of like. And she has one. And she has one, whatever it is.

[Jill Dunn]

So they're how the surgeons are now becoming Household Names. Names. Dr. Stephen Levine, you know, who would have known like three years ago who did anyone's facelift.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

Unless you were living in Beverly Hills.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And he's allegedly the one who did Kris Jenner's.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, she says, she said, there you go.

[Carlene Higgins]

And that. And hers was probably the most famous of all facelifts this year.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Indeed.

[Narrator/Announcer]

That was a moment for sure.

[Jill Dunn]

I agree. I don't think we can talk about beauty without talking about beauty marketing. Yeah. And where we're at with that now, something that I found to be quite egregious and I don't know if other people will agree with me, but the product placements in shows this year has been out of control. So it started innocuously enough with Love Island, Maybelline all over the place. Sponsoring the kissing booth, I think that's pretty genius. And reality tv, that's actually nothing new, you know. And in big group dates on the Bachelor, they used to all have, you know, the Gillette can and razor behind them. Like not that they're shaving their Legs on camera. But it's like implied, you know? So I think reality TV has been doing it for some time. But one of the things this fall that got so much attention online was the Estee Lauder placement in Nobody wants this.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. I don't watch that show.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. So this is the Aaron and Sarah Foster show. And it was like, it wasn't like cool like in succession where you, where you scan where they, where they panned into Kendall's bathroom and you saw very quickly that there was an Augustinus botter serum there. Yeah. They're painting the picture without telling you. Right. This was like close up shot. Drop her in the bottle, naming the product, putting it on.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow.

[Jill Dunn]

Insane.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow.

[Jill Dunn]

So that was one of them. The second one was in All Sphere. So Sarah Paulson is doing somebody's hair in the show. And I can't remember now whose hair she was doing, but she. It was or bay and it was the Orbe dry shampoo. And she's like, I'm just taking this oribe dry shampoo and I'm just spraying it in the roots. Like she was doing a call out like QVC and demo, demonstrating the product in the scene on what shows. Fair.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh my gosh.

[Jill Dunn]

So I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg on that.

[Carlene Higgins]

The whole disclaimer thing is they come down so hard on creators. Yes. With disclaimers that. This is hashtag ad, hashtag partner. So where is that on television shows is my question.

[Jill Dunn]

There it is always at the end, you know, there's always like the fine print. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. But again, is that enough? Because in the, in the tick tock world, that would not be considered enough at all.

[Jill Dunn]

And it was literally the opening scene with the Orbe product.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

So I will embed that because people were having a heyday with it. And then the other unintended consequence and why it is kind of brilliant marketing is because I'm talking about it right now and it went by all these things and clips from the shows went viral. So not only are you talking about the show, but then you're like, can you believe this? Estee Lauder Advanced Night Repair serum is in. Nobody wants this. And how overt it is. And then that in and of it itself becomes viral. If I was a marketer, I'd be jumping for joy.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

You know, can we get cassat in any TV shows next year?

[Carlene Higgins]

I don't know. I don't know anyone on a TV show.

[Jill Dunn]

I don't want to see a CBC show.

[Carlene Higgins]

But which Show. Would it be Pluribus?

[Jill Dunn]

What?

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jill Dunn]

That's going to be the secret to how they undo everything.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's so funny. I thought you were going to say Emily from Paris or something like. But we'll have to. We'll keep thinking guys, call me.

[Jill Dunn]

So they're having to get very creative. Creative. And I don't know if I really, you know, I can't blame them. But I noticed it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

You know.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Well, it's just a little more overt, which is.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Not an amazing taste. Now another thing, though, I think a shift in marketing that I've noticed that I do think is actually quite cool is the resurgence of really cool ads.

[Jill Dunn]

Print ads or.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, just I think like, it's like tell what would have been television ads, but now we're seeing them on social. I think is. Is really kind of cool where it's like a different. So the one that I'm thinking of is like the ordinary. When they did the periodic fable. You know, when they did that ad where everybody was kind of. It looked like they were in a classroom and they were standing up. Like, that just felt very kind of. It was produced, but it was also like gorilla. And there's this other. Have you ever seen these ones from Fern, this British perfume company? It's really cute. I've been catching these on the Internet where it kind of looks like they're like picking the apples off of a tree. It has a little bit of a Wes Anderson feeling to it, but it's just like really. It's just really cute. It feels like an ad that you used to see on television, but now it's back. Okay. And like, you know, the Charlotte Tilbury with Celine Dion moment, like, it just feels like kind of this. This getting back to traditional ads in a way.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Probably a. A bit of a reaction pendulum swing away from like the AI and the Sora of it all, which. Those Sora ads were just wild this year. And like Gemini, what's the new banana or whatever.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Nano Banana.

[Jill Dunn]

Nano Banana. It's like hyper realistic and just like kind of freaky. And I think there's a lot of brands using those.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. What I like about it is this return to creativity. And again, when we're talking about marketing and how brands can. Can stand out in this cluttered, cluttered space.

[Jill Dunn]

And.

[Carlene Higgins]

And this is kind of one of the issues that I sometimes have with these super scientific brands.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Is like they're soulless. You know what I mean? And it's hard to relate to people on, on an emotional level. And this is why I say as much as a PhD can put out a brand or, you know, a cosmetic chemist or whatnot, and that's great. Everybody have at it. But if you want to spread beyond your audience, your very specific audience or clientele, in my opinion, there needs to be something richer going on. And so I love that we're kind of seeing this like creativity coming back. And for creatives, it's very, it potentially could be very exciting. And going back to you, you know, you talk about like Mac Cosmetics, they really were so creative. And you know, working with artists backstage, that was such a point of credibility. They had all these makeup artists, but it's like these makeup artists have kind of taken off and done their own thing now. But like, I think going back to tapping into those creatives, they had such a tight relationship with them and coming out with these like, yeah, very creative kind of out of the box ideas. Is like when a brand is floundering, you can count on creativity to bring them back. That is the answer. You're a heritage brand and things are dusty. Hire creatives. Like, I'm not talking about marketing teams. Real creatives, you know, get their ideas. The stuff that's comes out of a boardroom.

[Jill Dunn]

Yawn. Yeah, it's just not going to connect. Right. In the same way people are connect, people are craving.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, no offense to the, to the marketing execs, but I feel like they've been so busy with digital marketing and influencers, I'm just not sure how much genuine creativity. Like, are there any Dawn Drapers left in the world?

[Jill Dunn]

They were all at Scarpetta last night. Foreign.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

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[Jill Dunn]

Show notes and on our website.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

Now back to the show.

[Jill Dunn]

Where we are with influencers and marketing too, I think is very interesting. I was shook to my core when we saw the incredible fashion influencer write her substack the open letter breaking up with the row.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And I think that that set off really interesting conversation in influencers and marketing and the responsibility, quote unquote, to the brand, if there is any and people are, some people were like who are you? You're a nobody. Why do they care about you? And then other people were like, I only know about the role because of Neel, all of this. So I think that that is a really interesting moment. And, and really who does the power lie with? And I think online there is a lot of fatigue. Instagram can feel like a one big ad on occasion because if maybe a new creator is being served to me and they are up and coming in fashion or beauty or lifestyle or whatever and it's their side hustle and they are promoting a lot of brands they might have in their house, house with the hopes that the brand will notice, send them product or do an ad or whatever. So there's that part of it. And, and then on the flip side of that, then there's the whole affiliate marketing thing too. And so it just, it's all coming at you at once and it's, it's eroded the trust and I think there's a lot of people on like no buy missions as a, as a backlash to that. And so it's very interesting.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, I thought it was to know who to trust. Yeah, well, I thought it was a very and we're going to talk about this because we're actually doing a forecast episod of what we think is going to be big in 2026. But I think the whole substack of it all has really changed the tone of influencers and social media. Speaking for myself, for my own substack, it feels more magazine and bloggy that than any other platform and people are just loving that, especially former journos. So there's. Yeah, there's a lot of space to do.

[Jill Dunn]

Feels like a safe space maybe.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And there's a lot of space to do some like real inner thinking and reflecting and being able to write things like that and have bigger opinions than just like a Cuddy comment.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

Sure.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, in somebody's like TikTok or Instagram. And so I think that's going to be a very interesting direction where there's a little bit more like thoughtful. Thoughtful, you know, thought starters that are. That are going to be happening, especially with Generation X because that's kind of. It feels like a better fit. Now I know we need to wrap it up, but I'm just going to leave it with one thing which is there's been a lot of spicy.

[Jill Dunn]

You're talking about cutty comments.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, cutty comments. There's been a lot of spiciness amongst educators, creators, chemists, brand founders.

[Jill Dunn]

It's all going down on social.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's all going down on social. Charlotte Palermino's Dr. Michelle Wong lab Muffin Eco. Well, Jen Navakovic, she. These all three have been on our show. Love these ladies. They all have something really important and unique and special to bring to the beauty industry. And like I said before, none of us exist in a silo. I really appreciate what, what Ecowell is Building and Dr. Michelle Wong is helping in terms of like providing free, good, quality education. But I do think that the hard call outs and some of the comments just in my opinion, it feels below who these women are in terms of their talent and what they contribute.

[Jill Dunn]

Influence. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And their influence. It. It feels like a little schoolyard yucky. So that's kind of. I'm just gonna say that it's very noted. Everyone's talking about it in their group chat guts. And I just think that we're all better together. I sound like a politician now, but. But it's like it. I just think even if you're only concerned about your own reputation, the best thing, and we've talked about this ourselves, is like the cream always rises to the top. Stay focused on what you're doing. Don't worry about what other people are doing. Stay focused on what you're doing and leave it there and let people make their own choices. They're not dumb. Period. Period.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, we will see everybody next week. We know this the holidays next week, but we have a brand new episode with a fascinating dermatologist. We would love your input on this episode today. Do you want us to do more of these sort of like spouting off on different hot topics? And frankly, we didn't even scratch the surface today. There's so much to talk about. But we are excited for 2026 what's coming. Happy Holidays to everybody, but we're not leaving you hanging. There's still two more brand new episodes in 2025. With all of that being said, subscribe to our YouTube write us a review Share this episode with a friend who you think might enjoy a hot girl walk listening to a beauty pod.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, you know. Happy Holidays everyone. Thanks for listening.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

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[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Jill Dunn]

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[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

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[Jill Dunn]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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