Charlotte Palermino Returns! Hot Takes on P50’s Reformulation, K-Beauty SPF Scarcity and Do We Need Beef Tallow in Our Moisturizer?

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Charlotte Palermino Returns! Hot Takes on P50’s Reformulation, K-Beauty SPF Scarcity and Do We Need Beef Tallow in Our Moisturizer?
Release Date: May 28, 2025
Hosts: Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins
Guest: Charlotte Palermino, Co-Founder and Chief Brand Officer of D.O. (DI EUX)

---

Introduction and Guest Profile (00:35 - 07:59)

The episode kicks off with Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins welcoming Charlotte Palermino, the co-founder and Chief Brand Officer of D.O. (DI EUX), a skincare brand known for its transparent pricing and cult-favorite products like the Instant Angel Moisturizer. Charlotte, recognized for her candid discussions on skincare via platforms like Skin Talk, brings her expertise to dissect current beauty trends and industry shifts.

SkinCeuticals CE Ferulic Patent Expiration and Dupes (02:35 - 04:34)

A significant portion of the discussion centers on SkinCeuticals' CE Ferulic serum, once the gold standard in vitamin C formulations. Charlotte reveals that the patent for CE Ferulic has expired, paving the way for more affordable dupes to flood the market:

Charlotte Palermino (03:21): "I think it's a very interesting time to put CE Ferulic on your package. Whether or not you are testing it against their version or even using the same type of vitamin C, you can do whatever you want now."

Carlene expresses surprise at the patent expiration, highlighting the limited duration of such protections:

Carlene Higgins (03:22): "What I don't understand is how did this happen? Like, how did they lose the patent? Can't they keep renewing it?"

D.O. Skincare Brand Updates and New Product Launches (04:34 - 07:59)

Charlotte delves into D.O.'s growth, noting their recent expansion into Sephora and the introduction of their new cleansing oil, "Ethereum Ethereal," praised for its trendy packaging and efficient formula:

Charlotte Palermino (06:25): "And they just popped off so much more recently because they've gone into Sephora officially. It's a lot more widely available now and they're just like radically transparent with their prices."

The hosts commend D.O. for their transparency and innovative product launches, setting a high standard in the skincare industry.

Tinted Skincare vs. Makeup: A Heated Debate (11:08 - 14:50)

Jill and Charlotte critique the trend of tinted skincare products, arguing that such innovations are not genuinely novel but rather repackaged versions of existing products. Jill emphasizes the historical roots of tinted serums:

Jill Dunn (11:11): "Erno Laszlo created tinted serum essentially to…it was 80% skincare, 20% makeup."

They express frustration over labeling these products as "innovative," suggesting that the industry is running out of original ideas. The conversation also touches on the overuse of ingredients like niacinamide in makeup products, leading to unnecessary complexity and potential skin irritation.

Biologique Recherche's P50 Reformulation and Phenol Ban (14:50 - 19:56)

The hosts discuss the reformulation of Biologique Recherche’s iconic P50 serum following the FDA’s prohibition of phenol in skincare. Jill reminisces about the original formulation's potency:

Jill Dunn (15:02): "Your face becomes a melted candle…creating such a deep chemical burn…they had to take that out and they completely reformulated it."

They analyze the new ingredients introduced, such as gluconolactone and various acids, assessing the product's efficacy post-reformulation. Despite reservations, Jill remains optimistic about the updated P50 formula’s potential.

K-Beauty SPF Scarcity and FDA Regulations (19:56 - 24:43)

A critical segment addresses the FDA’s ban on numerous SPF filters, affecting K-Beauty sunscreens. Charlotte explains the historical context of Korean sunscreens’ legality in the U.S.:

Jill Dunn (20:06): "Sunscreen refugees will be coming to Canada."

They discuss the ramifications for brands like Beauty of Joseon and the potential market shift towards zinc and titanium dioxide-based sunscreens. The conversation highlights fears that deregulation under certain administrations could lead to unregulated and ineffective sunscreen products entering the market.

Beauty Industry Slowdown vs. Market Correction (28:43 - 32:04)

Jill and Charlotte explore the notion of a "beauty slowdown," debating whether it signifies a true industry downturn or a necessary market correction amidst overwhelming competition and economic pressures. Jill posits:

Jill Dunn (30:00): "I think there is a slowdown because there's just too much shit in the market."

They agree that the proliferation of brands and rising costs due to tariffs on packaging have strained the market, potentially leading to sustained innovation and "scrappy" business strategies.

Dermfluencers and Trustworthiness in Skincare Advice (32:04 - 36:39)

The discussion shifts to the rise of "dermfluencers"—influencers offering dermatological advice without formal medical training. Jill voices concerns about the reliability of such sources:

Jill Dunn (32:18): "It's weird to follow influencers that have no medical degree, no medical training, and we follow them for medical advice."

They emphasize the importance of transparency and credibility, advocating for influencers to disclose sponsorships and qualifications to maintain trust with their audience.

Critique of Beef Tallow in Moisturizers (36:39 - 39:12)

Jill castigates the resurgence of beef tallow in skincare, labeling it as an overhyped and unnecessary ingredient:

Jill Dunn (37:05): "Any launch that's like, in the beef tallow world…that's a cult, babe."

She argues that beef tallow lacks the sustainability and efficacy of alternatives like squalane, cautioning against its potential to disrupt the skin barrier over time.

Innovations and Trends in Skincare (39:12 - 50:29)

The conversation transitions to various skincare innovations, including delivery systems that enhance ingredient efficacy and the integration of antioxidants and milky toners to combat pollution. Jill shares her enthusiasm for new sunscreens entering the U.S. market, particularly praising brands like Ultraviolet for their quality and competitive pricing.

Jill Dunn (50:49): "Honestly, it's all sunscreen."

They also discuss the impact of social media platforms like TikTok Shop on product sales and marketing strategies, noting the challenges of algorithm changes and the importance of authentic content.

Final Thoughts and Top Shelf Recommendations (50:29 - 53:57)

In wrapping up, the hosts reiterate their excitement for upcoming sunscreen launches and the continued evolution of the skincare industry. Jill shares personal anecdotes about using high-tech tools like UV cameras to monitor skin health, emphasizing a scientific approach to skincare.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Charlotte Palermino (03:21): "I think it's a very interesting time to put CE Ferulic on your package."
• Jill Dunn (11:11): "Erno Laszlo created tinted serum essentially to…it was 80% skincare, 20% makeup."
• Jill Dunn (15:02): "It's creating such a deep chemical burn…they had to take that out and they completely reformulated it."
• Jill Dunn (30:00): "I think there is a slowdown because there's just too much shit in the market."
• Jill Dunn (32:18): "It's weird to follow influencers that have no medical degree, no medical training, and we follow them for medical advice."
• Jill Dunn (37:05): "Any launch that's like, in the beef tallow world…that's a cult, babe."
• Jill Dunn (50:49): "Honestly, it's all sunscreen."

---

Conclusion

In this episode of Breaking Beauty Podcast, hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins, alongside guest Charlotte Palermino, provide an in-depth analysis of significant developments in the beauty industry. From the expiration of SkinCeuticals' CE Ferulic patent and the challenges facing K-Beauty sunscreens in the U.S., to the questionable resurgence of beef tallow in skincare and the credibility of dermfluencers, the conversation is rich with expert insights. The episode underscores the importance of transparency, innovation, and informed consumer choices in navigating the ever-evolving beauty landscape.

---

For more details on the products discussed and exclusive promo codes, visit breakingbeautypodcast.com. Subscribe to their YouTube channel and follow them on Instagram at @BreakingBeautyPodcast for the latest updates.

Transcript

[Jill Dunn]

The following podcast is a dear media production.

[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Charlotte Palermino]

We're your hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins. Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast, everyone. We're Jill and Carlene, two longtime magazine beauty editors turn beauty podcasters here each and every Wednesday, sharing with you the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. How are you, Carlene?

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm very well, Jill. And we're joined by a friend of the show today to tackle some hot topics. We're welcoming the one and only Charlotte Palermino.

[Charlotte Palermino]

And Charlotte is the co founder and chief brand officer of D.O. that's spelled D I E U X. There's a lot of ways you can spell do in the beauty world. So I wanted to clarify and she first came on our show back in 2022. She and I had a sit down. Carlene, you weren't. I don't believe at that time was it. So this was your first time meeting Charlotte in person. And many of you may know Charlotte from her real talk on Skin Talk. She's a very familiar face sounding off on skin care, sunscreen, regulation K, beauty formulations and so much more.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, she's definitely known for her no BS social media presence to over 800,000 followers across social media. And before building a skincare brand, Charlotte led the editorial development at Snap, where she launched global publishers like the New York Times and Vogue on Snapchat, Discover. She is also a beauty and culture writer who has contributed to Elle, the Cut into the gloss and more.

[Charlotte Palermino]

And you know, we love a hot take around here and Charlotte is not afraid of that. I have to say. We recorded the episode a couple of months ago when we were in New York. So we got to sit down with her and the beauty world. It just keeps churning out the news. There's never a dull moment around here.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh yes.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Before we dive into our conversation with Charlotte, Carlene, I wanted to chat with you just through a couple of things that have been bubbling up on my for you page. And by the way, may maybe some of you are new this week joining us because you may have heard us on Brooke Devart show last week we talked with Brooke about why road is so successful and you know, why Haley kind of breaks through all of that noise. Anyway, I, I digress. But another big piece of news that I think our audience would be very interested to know about, you know, is that skinceuticals, they of course have the CE for ruling incredible formula vitamin C. It was like the gold standard for the last 20 years.

[Carlene Higgins]

Now there's an icon. There's an icon, yes.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Very protective over the patent. In fact, back in 2018, they sued drunk Elephant because they said it was way too close to their formula. It was such an originator at the time because L ascorbic acid, which is, you know, the version of vitamin C that they use, it's very hard to stabilize, notoriously, but vitamin C's in general have just come a long way. So long story short, the patent has expired and expect to see dupes of CE ferulic flooding your for you page any day now. I think it's a very interesting time to put CE ferulic on your package. Whether or not you are testing it against their version or even using the same type of vitamin C, you can do whatever you want now.

[Carlene Higgins]

I just.

[Charlotte Palermino]

I.

[Carlene Higgins]

What I don't understand is how did this happen? Like, how did they lose the patent? Can't they keep renewing it?

[Charlotte Palermino]

No, I think it's like 20 years is the max. Yeah. Is the maximum okay?

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, yeah, I think we'll see a lot of that rolling out. I. I agree with you completely.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Even though a lot of people we've talked to over the last several years have said, you know, it's kind of lagging now almost because just vitamin C period, has come. There's so many different forms of it you can formulate with.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Charlotte Palermino]

And that can give you a great result compared to when this came out 20 years ago. The technology, there has been innovation, so. Yeah. And I mean, like, I know it's timeless. Skincare on Amazon, that's one of the number one best selling skincare brands. I think it's like 30 bucks. And a lot of people say that that's very close.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Does that have fro lick in it, that one?

[Charlotte Palermino]

I think it does in a minute.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's the thing. Right. Frolic helps to increase the efficacy of vitamin C. Right. That's why they're like best friends in a formula.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yes. It's able to stabilize the vitamin C. So it's so or the L ascorbic acid specifically in that formula. So they are able to work together and you get that beautiful result.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Get ready for dupe season.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Once again, 100%. But speaking of skinceuticals, that leads us into our conversation with our guest today, Charlotte Palermino, because Charlotte's co founder at Do Skin. Her name is Joyce De Lemos, and she's the chief product officer and a trained cosmetic chemist who once worked at SkinCeuticals. Among many other skincare brands, knows all.

[Carlene Higgins]

Of the state secrets. So we'll see if they're inspired at all by this new revelation. Well, I'm sure a lot of you listeners might be wanting to know what's new and popping. With DO now in its fifth year, DO famously launched the reusable under eye patch trend when they first came out and has since delivered cult favorite skin care like their Instant angel moisturizer. I'm a huge fan. Love that cream so much. It's also beloved by celebrities like Hailey Bieber.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah. And they just popped off so much more recently because they've gone into Sephora officially. It's a lot more widely available now and they're just like radically transparent with their prices. It's kind of like almost tmi, to be honest. When they posted their price sheet of, like, cost of goods and this and that, people were like, why? Why are you sharing?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, I know. I've noticed that as well. I think Charlotte is just. She's like. I feel like she's very. You know, it's like she's. She went and got her esthetician degree that she's now using for the skincare brand. I feel like she's like the nerd in the best way and a beautiful nerd at that. Like, seeing her in person, it's just her skin and. But her makeup and everything as well is just like flawless.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah, it's incredible. And we actually got some scoop. Carlene, they just dropped their brand new cleansing oil. It's called Ethereum Ethereal. And I sent you a picture of it if you want to click on that link. And it's actually like the trending butter yellow color of the moment. Like, they really nailed this packaging.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Beautiful.

[Charlotte Palermino]

And who doesn't like to double cleanse? That's. I swear by that. Especially in the summer, just for like, keeping my pores clear. Getting rid of all of this spf. And I haven't gotten to try it yet, but they say that they have a dissolve complex in there which is a mix of two emollient oils. So you don't have to rub quite as much to take off your makeup and your spf. With Joyce at the helm, I in. In do I trust, you know, Amazing.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, let's get into the show. In today's episode, we're getting all of the hot takes on what Charlotte makes of biologic recherche reformulating P50. We talked about that iconic product earlier. We're also going to discuss SPF filter bands on K Beauty Sunscreens like, what does this mean for our favorite brands and where can we buy them?

[Charlotte Palermino]

Plus, we get our thoughts on the beauty industry, quote, unquote, slowdown. Like whether that's a real thing or not, or these brands just going to keep popping up. And of course, you know, we don't let her get away without sharing her top shelf of the moment. Like, what's she making room for? We always need to know that from a skincare guru and like you said, a trained esthetician herself. And as always, we will link to everything that we discuss over on our website, which is breaking beauty podcast.com and please watch this episode and subscribe to our YouTube channel as well. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the podcast, Charlotte Palermino.

[Carlene Higgins]

This episode is brought to you in part by strivectin. So I'm talking to all these skincare freaks and geeks out there. You for sure know about Strivectin. They're celebrated for their number one neck cream, their number one selling stretch mark cream. And you need to know about the new Peptide Plump collagen cushion cream from strivectin. It's really a next gen wrinkle cream that was clinically tested on women considering injectables. And the results are kind of shocking. After four weeks, 97% said that they would choose this cream over injectable filler. Wow. This was based on a self assessment questionnaire of the 35 subjects after four weeks of use as directed. So what's so special about it? Well, the key is Strivectin's exclusive, exclusive Alpha 3 peptide technology. It was created with AI. Okay. It's a culmination of the most effective wrinkle smoothing peptides. And they're said to be so powerful because they target all three of skin's important building blocks. Do you know what those are? Skill testing question. Collagen, elastin and hyaluronic acid. You get a gold star if you got all of those correct. With daily use, it's clinically proven to improve the look of fine lines, laugh lines, the 11s. And it's got this great cushiony bounce back texture that I really like. It really gives you this like springy feel on your skin. I think it's wonderful for spring and summer. So whether you're getting injectables and you're looking to maintain those results, you're not ready to take the leap yet. Give this product a try. It's got their NIA114 ingredient that's in all of their products that makes them so Strivectin Worthy. It's better than niacinamide. It's a supercharged molecule that's clinically proven to boost their formulas and help stimulate skin to act younger. That's why they've been a leader in the skincare space for over 20 years. Strivectin. Discover the science behind great skin.

[Josh Peck]

Hey, I'm Josh Peck. And I'm Ben Soffer. And we're the good guys. On our show, every week, we talk about buzzy pop culture stories, maybe answer a couple of your voicemails and go into a moment of the week that makes you say, what, are you nuts? And I swear, it's so much better than this promo. Anyway, there's a lot of guys out there, but we're the good ones. Stream good guys every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, anywhere. Neil, don't listen.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast. Charlotte, thank you so much for being here.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm so excited to be here. We have so much tea to go through.

[Charlotte Palermino]

We're spilling all the tea.

[Jill Dunn]

Today.

[Charlotte Palermino]

We're getting candid about skincare trends, about the industry. Derm fluencers, Hot topics galore. And top shelf P50. What are we gonna do? Like, all of it. So we're gonna dive in. And the first skincare trend that I want to talk to you about is tinted skincare is the new makeup. We've seen a bunch of headlines about this, which from business of Fashion, Women's Wear Daily. What are your thoughts on this? And how do we kind of arrive here, do you think?

[Jill Dunn]

I mean, what's interesting is that this is where we started.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Erno Laszlo, the first tinted product that was made was in 1927. Okay. I actually just made a video on this. Like, I didn't. I don't have this information just like in recall in my brain.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm just like a historian. I'm not. So Ernol Laszlo created tinted serum essentially to. It was 80% skincare, 20% makeup. And it was because this princess, I can't remember of where, was struggling with acne, and he was like, okay, you don't want to use these ointments and things like that. I'm going to make this really elegant product that's going to cover up your concerns, but it's also going to heal the skin while you're using it. It's not about us. Like, this is an innovation is I guess what I'm trying to say.

[Charlotte Palermino]

I see.

[Jill Dunn]

And I think if you're going to be making a serum tinted Product, it should be for the whole face. It is very strange to make it for just specific areas. The exception would be sunscreen. And I love sunscreen makeup because I would consider that an active ingredient.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

It does a lot to help protect us. But I really like a sunscreen makeup product. It is actually protecting me from UV damage, and I might need a little bit more on my cheeks. I might want a little bit extra coverage all over my face, because you're never using that as a primary sunscreen. So my take is, is that brands that do it and tout it as innovation. It actually was first created over 100 years ago, or, no, 97 years ago. Not innovation. And I think we're running out of ideas.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Like, it's not. It's not innovative to do that. Like, coming out with new ingredients, coming out with new formats, coming out with something that actually hasn't existed before is innovation. So I get really frustrated with media, quite frankly, when they call this innovation, because it's going to create a trend, and then more brands are going to do it, and it's just wasteful.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah. So, like, tinted skin care blush, we don't really need that.

[Jill Dunn]

I.

[Charlotte Palermino]

If you like complexion, okay.

[Jill Dunn]

If you like it, then, like, use it. That's always my philosophy. But don't call it innovation. Right, Got it.

[Joyce De Lemos]

It's also. I feel like we're really splitting hairs now when we're talking about the skinification of makeup and now the makeup ification of skin care. It's like, come on, guys.

[Jill Dunn]

That's. They're trying. It's a marketing spin. Absolutely. It's trying to cut. Like, niacinamide has been in so many K beauty products for a really long time. Throwing niacinamide in something doesn't make it. It's an antioxidant, which actually stabilizes your formula. And so if you look at a lot of makeup products, they have things. I'm sorry, but most makeup has glycerin in it. That's the best hydrator in the industry. So it's just BB cream that literally was like. Or tinted moisturizer. That's been skin. That's been skincare and makeup. I just find the entire concept. I'm like, we've. I'm like, you're grasping at straws here.

[Joyce De Lemos]

It's also like, we don't need niacinamide in everything. I don't like that when there's, like, sneaky ingredients that could cause irritation. I think there's so much. The more products we have, there's More confusion. So, like, let's just kind of keep it straight when it comes to.

[Jill Dunn]

And keep it to blush. Like, you know, if you're going to be doing a blush that has, like, skincare ingredients, maybe use something that's really plumping or, like, something that's going to actually give, like, a bit of, like, shine. But it's like a squalane. Right. So it's like, nourishing the skin. That's totally fine to me. But when you start adding active ingredients, I'm like, why? Yeah. Is it because your customer was complaining particularly about hyperpigmentation around the cheeks?

[Joyce De Lemos]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

Like, what is the purpose? And you want to brighten just the cheek area?

[Joyce De Lemos]

Mm.

[Jill Dunn]

I don't.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah. Too much of a good thing. Not a good thing.

[Jill Dunn]

It's also, you're using such a small amount. I. Yeah, I don't.

[Joyce De Lemos]

I don't.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, I'm confused. I guess the last thing I'll say is if you're going to be using something like a niacinamide, it's almost in every single product as is. So do you need an extra 4% on your cheeks? How much were they using? Everyone's using a different amount of blush. So how can you actually measure that? Yeah, it's. I have. I have questions.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay. Let's talk about a throwback product. P50. Biologic recherche. P50. The OG is RIP from what I understand.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. Because phenol is no longer allowed in skincare.

[Charlotte Palermino]

So do you have thoughts on this?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. So phenol is. Have you ever seen a phenol peel on TikTok?

[Joyce De Lemos]

No.

[Jill Dunn]

You've. Do I show you what a phenol pill is?

[Charlotte Palermino]

I mean, just describe it. Describe it.

[Jill Dunn]

Imagine your face becomes a melted candle.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Oh.

[Jill Dunn]

And then literally you take off the scab and then you have, like. It's basically creating such a deep chemical burn that you have completely new skin underneath. And it's basically what they used to use. I can't remember the exact dates, but it feels like 70s and 80s and it feels like that's when. That's. I think when it was used, but basically. Are you looking at phenomenal pills?

[Joyce De Lemos]

I'm looking it up, yes.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

It's actually like.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Okay, I'm really. I'm seeing this.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Like, saw.

[Charlotte Palermino]

It's almost like, you know, you're having a very severe allergic reaction. It's like these people's eyes are swelling.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. It takes like a year before you can go out in public. It's what people use. Before there was like CO2 and like that. And so now we have much better technology. But phenol is. I believe it's a. Is it?

[Joyce De Lemos]

I'm looking at it here. His face looks like a pastrami sandwich.

[Jill Dunn]

Exactly.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Unfortunate.

[Jill Dunn]

Like cured meat. Yeah. And so basically, it's just not allowed in skincare products because it is believed to actually penetrate into the. Like, it's very hard to penetrate the skin, but there are some ingredients that actually do. And so it was the star ingredient of that particular product because it's also incredibly effective at exfoliating the skin, and it's incredibly effective at things like acne and things like that. And so they basically had to take that out and they completely reformulated it. They also say that phenol, like, I've seen some, like, blog posts and like. Oh, it was in a really small percentage. I believe it's actually. I actually wrote down the ingredient list. I believe it was actually above niacinamide. And niacinamide is really not used. Yeah, it's right after glycerin and right before niacinamide. So you can actually. Usually it's going to be above 2%, because niacinamide under 2% doesn't really work. And 4% is when you start to get into the hyperpigmentation claims.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And so when I look at this, I'm like. And there's also lactic acid. And so are you telling me that lactic acid going to be under, like, 2%? Probably not. And so the 1970 version, I think that most of the powerhouse was probably the phenol and the niacinamide. It also has that burdock root extract, which is just really high in antioxidants. It also has salicylic acid. This no longer is allowed. So their reformulation bumped up all the acids.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Right, okay.

[Jill Dunn]

And added gluconolactone, which is a pha.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Right. Have you tried it?

[Jill Dunn]

No, I'm actually not a big P50, but I think I would be a fan now because I tried it. I didn't have Deliverance, which is a do serum in my routine, which allows me to be reckless and it destroyed my face. But now I can use whatever exfoliant I want. So I probably would be into this now because this is an aggressive. This is aggressive. And I believe the ph was 3.5, which means it's pretty spicy.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Joyce De Lemos]

They do have different versions for different skin types.

[Jill Dunn]

Exactly. By the time I got to that point, I was, like, already on, like, Dr. Idris. Then I met you yeah. Even the ordinary has a great glycolic toner.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah, yeah. For like.

[Jill Dunn]

And the PH are low. Yeah, Safer with a. With a chemical exfoliant. You want the PH to be low. That means it's stronger, it's more effective. The higher the ph. Actually it's like that. That percentage that they have doesn't even matter as much. Doesn't show how actually effective it is. It starts to water it down.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay, so your favorite exfoliant is exfoliating toner.

[Jill Dunn]

I mean listen, if you're on a budget. The ordinary is. I love if you have acne, the mandelic acid serum is fantastic because people love this, this one particularly for blemish prone skin. So if you have it face.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah, it's a great one. I've emptied that one.

[Jill Dunn]

It's so gentle too.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

You can do some stupid things. Sophie would not sanction me saying that. You can do some stupid things with that. I actually like Glow recipe has a pretty good toner. They have like a strawberry mask. James Welsh loves it. But they actually have a good like BHA.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay, right.

[Jill Dunn]

As well. So also on a budget. Dr. Idris. Yeah, I love Dr. Idris. But that flash mask, it make it literally. And then, then I met you. And these are all I'm listing brands that have. Other than Sophie Pavitt's, they all have multiple acids. Because that's also what's beautiful about this about P50.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

They put in lactic, which is an aha. They'll put in salicylic, which is a BHA. BHA's are great for like blackheads and anything that's like very. It's oil soluble, so it goes deeper into the pore. Glycolic acid is a really small molecule, so it goes really deep. And then you have lactic acid, which is a little bit more surface. Can even be a hydrator. A humectant under 5% impending the pH. And so it's just like a. It was just a really well rounded product. And I also think nothing existed like it on the market. And that's why it has this lore. The new formula actually does look nice. Maybe I'll try it. It's really a long ingredient list though.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah, that's the French French way.

[Joyce De Lemos]

And where are we at with K Beauty? There's an SPF filter ban by the fda. So a lot of people, that's their ride or die. What's happening there? What do we need to know?

[Jill Dunn]

Canadians don't have to deal with this, right?

[Charlotte Palermino]

To a degree it's like, we get all the spillover. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of our audiences here.

[Jill Dunn]

So sunscreen refugees will be coming to Canada.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Exactly.

[Jill Dunn]

Excellent. Okay, so the thing that people don't realize is that it was always illegal to sell Korean sunscreens into the United States. It's why you don't see La Roche Posay selling their international sunscreens here. They don't want to get dinged by the fda. Korean beauty was being reckless, and then they finally started enforcing the law that always existed. And plus they added more qualifiers for even cosmetic brands where you need to register with the FDA if you're going to sell in this market. This is a good thing. The not good thing is that the United States has not approved a new sunscreen filter since the 90s. We treat sunscreen like a drug, just like in Canada. But in Canada, you've actually managed to approve some new sunscreen filters that we have not been able to. And so the end result is, is that any brand that wants to operate within the United States has started to pull their sunscreens. So if you look at Beauty of Joseon, for example, they are a massive brand in the United States. They're. I think they're going to do. They did 200 million last year, 40% with sunscreens. If they continue to sell their sunscreens and the FDA clocked them, they wouldn't be able to sell their creams, they wouldn't be able to sell their toners, they wouldn't be able to sell their cleansers, they wouldn't be able to sell anything. And their poof goes their entire business because they are majority sold in the United States. And so it's. It would be madness for a brand to continue selling their sunscreen openly flouting the law. Now, RFK is an interesting curveball. So with rfk, though, my big fear is that he'll just actually get rid of all legislation. Like, generally speaking.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Or he'll. He'll say he'll put on like, grass, which is like, generally recognized as safe.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

And basically with grass, what that means is that we have two chemicals, we have two filters that are currently generally recognized as safe. And the FDA just asks for more information on the rest. Now, all these chemical filters, just so that everyone's aware they are sold in Europe. There's this whole myth that they're banned in Europe. They are not. They are at limited. At percentages, just like in the US Just lower percentages. So if he pulls grass, then that means only zinc and titanium Dioxide will be allowed. And then my bigger fear is that he'll do that, and then he's gonna say, okay, but you don't need to do the drug testing. And so what does that mean? All those grifters that are selling you zinc and beef tallow that they mix in their kitchen can call themselves sunscreen. That's my big fear. Where we are limited to zinc and titanium dioxide. And there's going to be. It's going to be the Wild West. And, like, chemical filters generally are banned.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Right.

[Charlotte Palermino]

So, yeah, anything chemical, not allowed. Anything natural.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Even though we know everything's a chemical. The irony is that chemical sunscreens are called organic filters. Yes. Right, right.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah. But the thing is, I think people are still going to find a way to buy their beauty of Joseph. I always find it fascinating that, like, yes. Style. Style Vana. They ship everywhere and they.

[Jill Dunn]

They do a fascinating. So let's hear it. Olive and Young is opening a store in la.

[Charlotte Palermino]

I saw that.

[Jill Dunn]

I think that's a death knell for them, shipping Korean sunscreens into the U.S. personally, I think Stylevana sketchy.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

And so they'll keep doing it, if we're lucky.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I hope they do.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah. But their sunscreens are legit. I will say.

[Jill Dunn]

Of course they are.

[Charlotte Palermino]

What I received from them, what I have received is legitimate. But are they skirting some rules?

[Jill Dunn]

Definitely. But the thing is, for me, it's like I. People always think I get stuff from. For free from them, and I obviously do. But every month I order something from them and I track how long it takes if I get it, and I deliver it to different addresses under different names. And I honestly have gotten every single order. I understand that some people never got their order, and it's why I would never Recommend Doing a $500 order on Stylevana. I would recommend actually splitting it up.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Joyce De Lemos]

I just received the Beauty of Joseon Daily Tinted Fluid Sunscreen. So that. That's charging ahead. That's a new launch.

[Jill Dunn]

It's a zinc.

[Joyce De Lemos]

It is zinc.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Uncoated, no PA rating on it. And it's an SPF 40. So I was a little bit bummed.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah. I mean, I didn't love it. I did try it, but I think.

[Jill Dunn]

They'Re trying their best and they'll keep coming out with great launches.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah, it's. It's pretty. Like, it's very, very sheer, but it was like a little whitish, I thought.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Oh, a little white cast. Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

A little bit white cast on white people. Yeah.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Not a good sign, but it comes in like 12 shade, so I will say that's just the shade I tried. I could. Maybe I need to go darker.

[Carlene Higgins]

I don't know.

[Jill Dunn]

I like the texture.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Newly is one of our show partners this week. So if you're tired of that nothing to wear feeling even with a closet full of clothes relatable, or maybe you're eyeing a bunch of spring or summer trends, but you don't want to break the bank or commit to something you might only wear one time. I mean, I totally get that. And that's exactly why I love Nuuly. So Nuuly is a subscription clothing rental service that's all about helping you have fun and get creative with your style without a complete or completely expensive overhaul. Every month you can rent six items from Nuuly shared closet of literally thousands of styles. We're talking everything from fancy dresses for occasions like weddings to trendy going out clothes, premium jeans, jackets, and vacation outfits. And I love trying out new styles, colors, and silhouettes with Nuuly. And the best part is that when I I'm done, I just send them back. And Nuuly handles all of the shipping and all of the cleaning. There's no laundry for me, and it's super flexible. You can even pause or cancel your subscription without a fee if you need to take a pause. And every single month, you get your choice of any six styles from over 400 brands, including free people, my favorite denim brand, which is a Goldie, and many more. Plus, they offer inclusive sizing at newly up to 5x as well as petite and maternity options, which is genius. So you're saving money, you're freeing up closet space, and you're trying out all of the latest looks without that fast fashion ick. It's a really fun, flexible, and sustainable way to update your wardrobe. And Nuuly is a great value at 98amonth for any six styles. But right now, you can get 28 off your first month of Nuuly. When you sign up with the code beauty, just go to n U-U-L-Y.com that's Nuuly with two U's and enter the code beauty and sign up to get 28 off your first month. That's N U-U-L-Y.com newly with two U's with code BEAUTY. Newly subscription clothing rental. Change your clothes. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Carlene Higgins]

This episode is brought to you by lead by l' Oreal usa. So calling all estheticians, hair stylists, makeup artists, or maybe you've just started out in the beauty industry in an entry level job. I want to tell you about lead, created by Rolf's Global Institute and powered by l' Oreal usa. This is so incredible. LEAD is the first ever college and university degree program designed specifically for beauty professionals. You know, and we did a whole episode about this program earlier in May. You can go back and check it out and hear straight from the source all about this program. But we're really proud to have partnered with them because it's so innovative. This program is transforming the beauty industry from trade to profession by offering a bachelor of science degree in beauty and wellness.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Woohoo.

[Carlene Higgins]

Finally giving the industry the credibility that it deserves. So this is really about elevating your profession. We see all of you as independent creatives. It's like a small business. You're the brand, you know, so it's giving you all of the tools that's going to lead to your success. You'll learn about business, you'll learn about psychology, you'll learn about marketing, everything that it takes to be a master at what you do. Classes are available online or on campus. So it's super flexible. And there's even a new international apprenticeship program launching in 2025. This degree is really empowering beauticians in business so you can feel confident about what it is that you do and take it to the next level. So try it today. Check it out@leadinstitute.°. That's leadinstitute.de.

[Charlotte Palermino]

What else for skincare that you can't stop talking about?

[Jill Dunn]

I think I'm really excited about delivery systems in skincare and how we're getting ingredients into the skin and then also how can we make things more efficacious so like that you have, you can use less of them. That really excites me. And then obviously I will never stop talking about getting new sunscreen filters approved in the US because honestly, like I've had, I've cut back on my routine so much ever since using, you know, sunscreen. And I've been really into milky toners.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

I don't think that we've, I don't think we've reached peak toner world. I think that a lot of people are starting to understand that there's like, just because it's called a toner.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

It doesn't really mean anything. And so there's a lot of places where you can play, but there's so much pollution right now that I really like antioxidants in my routine. And so it's really easy to use these like antioxidant like spray toner type things and so like boom boom. Milk from Violette packed with antioxidants refreshes your makeup so good. It's a fantastic product. And I don't really know that many that are like a lot of them focus on hydration. So I'm excited to see where we go from there.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah. Favorite step of my routine. What do you make of the whole beauty slowdown? That's been a headline. Who's like avoiding the slowdown? Who's accelerating downhill?

[Charlotte Palermino]

Like I think we just saw like Estee Lauder just laid off like 7,000 people, you know. And I think yeah, just these big companies that dominated are just definitely it's grinding to a halt in some respects.

[Jill Dunn]

I mean I think it's like beauty slow down for who? I don't see K beauty slowing down. I don't see brands like road slowing down. Yeah, I don't recipe killing it. I, you know, I think there is a slowdown because there's just too much shit in the market. And we also only have one face, we only have one body. I think also the myth of like people wanting luxury body care has been busted as well. Like I think that the prices of skincare are being driven down a bit and cosmetics, I think that is the K beauty effect. When you're in Korea you can find top quality, top notch products with much lower margins because it's a more competitive market. And I think that's the transition that the US is starting to go through now is that it's becoming an extremely competitive market. You have people that are coming in. We now have tariffs for where everybody's sourcing their packaging from. Because for those who don't know the tariff now in China is directly impacting your packaging. And some brands, their packaging is more expensive than their formula.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

So the way that that impacts their cost of goods sold, the cogs and then how that then impacts their bottom line and how they've been operating business. Plus the added reality that the attention economy like in the United States right now, you're everything is on social. That's all of our marketing and you're competing with people doing the most insane things in the highest levels of, of power. And so it, it's like you're what can break through that will break through that noise. It's becoming increasingly chall and also some people are just completely logging off like I can't look at this anymore. And so I think that when you add all of these things, there's a correction happening right now. I wouldn't say it's a, it's a slowdown, but I would say it's a correction that's been needing to happen.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jill Dunn]

And I'm excited for this. Like we're seeing innovation. Like we are seeing it. And I'm excited to see how we get scrappy from here.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah, I agree.

[Charlotte Palermino]

I want to talk about dermfluencers. What do you make of dermfluencers and the disclosures and do. Are they as trustworthy as we've been? Look, I've been hanging off their words.

[Jill Dunn]

I think it's weird to follow influencers that have no medical degree, no medical training, and we follow them for medical advice. I think that is really weird. Like you're asking them about their supplements and about their skincare routine just because you like their vibes. I think that that is a really interesting part. I mean, even for me, I get really nervous sometimes and I, I am so lucky that I have a chemist as my co founder. I have a dermatologist advisor. I have people on speed dial that I check things with a lot. I even have a friend who's a mathematician and I'm like, did I. Is it math? Mathing? Because I am not a mathematician.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And so I, I take that very seriously because it's. It's quite easy to get people to follow you, but it's pretty easy to also alienate them if you put out something that's factually incorrect and if you're building a community on trust. And so my take is, is that, you know, derms, the disclosure thing is a. Is a problem to me. Sometimes I can tell when something's a sponsored post.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I also think there's best practices when you're creating content where you put. At the, at the top of the fold. They say the top of the fold.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Versus when you collapse it, that it's a sponsored post. I think there are just things that you should be doing because you're being held. You are being held to a higher standard, but also you're using your background as a stance of credibility. And so when you put on that lab coat and you actually earned the lab coat or the doctor's coat. What do you call it?

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah, lab coat.

[Jill Dunn]

Is it a lab coat that dogs wear?

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah, I think so.

[Jill Dunn]

I do not know.

[Charlotte Palermino]

The white coat.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, the. The white jacket. Yeah. And I think that you are the scrubs or whatever it is. You are signaling credibility. So follow it up and do you. You are being held to a higher standard, so live up to it.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jill Dunn]

I think I see some derms doing it well, though. And I think that's actually been what I've been like, oh, yeah, that there's a difference.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah, right.

[Jill Dunn]

I think it's okay to not practice.

[Joyce De Lemos]

We're all like, anybody who is a content creator, period, is making money some way somehow, and you know, there's money or gifts or whatever being exchanged. I think that it's all about transparency, really. At the end of the day, it. Because even if you look at. There's some doctors or. Or whomever out there, and they don't necessarily do brand deals, but they kind of have this like, truthiness about them, but then they're selling a book, it's like, well, you can't pretend that you're not compromised. Like, literally, we've had people on the show or seen people in the media who are like, I never do any. I. I will never do any sponsorships. So I am like, like, in, in essence, I'm the only truth teller out there. It's like, but you have a brand. Yeah, you have your own brand. Like, how can you actually say that? You know what I mean? So that's kind of how we operate as podcasters. We're content creators. We always disclose if it's a partnership, a sponsorship or whatever. And I've seen some of our guests on other shows.

[Jill Dunn]

I mean, I do that with my brand where I'm like, yeah, I don't make an affiliate link on this, but I own this brand. So you lose your brain. Yeah, exactly.

[Joyce De Lemos]

I mean, when we do this, there's.

[Jill Dunn]

A funny way to do it too, where it's like, list like, well, it's. You know, we all have. We're also all on social. Like, it's all like, it's. It's. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I mean, but you're not sitting there.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Saying, I don't take any sponsorship. So therefore, listen to me.

[Jill Dunn]

I like a brand. I hope you sponsor.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

If I talk about you brand, please sponsor me out here.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jill Dunn]

Just spreading the word for. For free. But I will say that think about it this way. When you're a dermatologist, you are able to educate one to one. And I think that the clinical experience and exp. And experience explaining things to your patients is unparalleled. Right. Like Joyce, my co founder, is a chemist. She's never had to deal with Multiple patients a day.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

And so, you know, that's an experience. That's important. So being able to then communicate to thousands, if not millions of people, that is so valuable. Absolutely. And you have the experience and even if you haven't practiced as a dermatologist, but you have the background and knowledge, and you're clear, like, okay, I haven't gone through residency and I haven't practiced. I'm actually okay with that, too. Again, it's that transparency thing. Yeah, yeah, it's that transparency thing.

[Joyce De Lemos]

I'm a fan of the education, like, I really am. You know, it. That's the only way that the masses would get it. Not everybody's going to a dermatologist, you.

[Jill Dunn]

Know, not everybody is going to a dermatologist.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Not like in this country. Not going to afford one.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I don't know what it's like in Canada with derms.

[Charlotte Palermino]

No, it's impossible.

[Jill Dunn]

I was going to say it must be really hard.

[Joyce De Lemos]

It's really difficult.

[Carlene Higgins]

We want to talk about your top shelf.

[Joyce De Lemos]

What are some recent launches that have just annoyed you that you've tried and why?

[Jill Dunn]

I mean, I'm very much so of the mindset that it's not for me, but it might be for someone. It's like dating men. It's for. That's for someone.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Was not for me.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

And so I have a hard time, like, nagging on launches for me. Launches that bother me. I guess any launch that's like, in the beef tallow world.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Just infuriates me because it's. It's not that I actually don't think beef tallow has a place in asking. Listen, I'm European, I'm French. My people brought that over to the U.S. right. They would use the innards of animals and then you basically render the fat and then that's the beef tallow cream. And they're treating it like it's a miracle that they discovered. No. Can't colonize something that was already colonized. Stop it. Not new. And also, like, animal byproducts are used in skincare all the time. Like, it's just. It's an annoying marketing hook to make it seem like there's some conspiracy. They're trying to keep it from you. The skincare industry is trying to keep this secret from you.

[Charlotte Palermino]

No.

[Jill Dunn]

Squalane is an incredible memetic to sebum, and it's more sustainably sourced. It takes forever to go rancid, whereas beef towel can go rancid very quickly. There are just better ingredients out there. Do I think that there's a place for beef towel? If you like it and you're using it, great. But every time I see a brand launch and it's talking about it like it's the second coming, I'm like, that's a cult, babe.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

This is just a cult. Also, using pure beef fat on your face over time can actually potentially break down your skin barrier. So it's like, it might not. It might be great initially, but beef you. If your skin starts to get sensitized over time, just watch out for that.

[Charlotte Palermino]

It's just crazy because I hear these things, I see the videos, and I'm like, no one's actually using that.

[Jill Dunn]

Primarily pure, I think, is at over. It's like $100 million D to C business, so that I'm pretty sure I.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Go on Amazon and you see it. Number two thing being sold.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Beef tallow.

[Joyce De Lemos]

And I'm like, what? At my salon, there's a beef tallow brand.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Wow.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And I think it's, like, it's trending, but TikTok Shop, I think, has been a massive proponent of beef tallow. And. And there's hooks that you notice that everybody copies. And this hook is. This dermatologist is being silenced by the skincare industry for his truth on beef tallow. And I'm like, nobody's silencing this man. Also, it's a chiropractor again. Or like, a neurologist. A neurologist. And I'm like, well, nobody's silencing him, but he's certainly not the authority.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly.

[Charlotte Palermino]

This next podcast sponsor, Aria, is all about adding spice back into your life. So if you and your partner are craving a little more spark, maybe things have gotten a bit predictable. I mean, life gets busy. Sometimes romance takes a back seat. But what if I told you that there's a service designed to effortlessly bring back that excitement? It's called Arya, spelled A R Y A. And you can think of Aria like a clothing or a meal subscription service, but for your bedroom. So Aria is your personal intimacy concierge. And it's not just a box full of stuff. It's a whole new way to connect. So here's how it works. You take a quick quiz to help them understand your unique couple goals and dynamic, and then you're matched with a real person. That's right, your dedicated intimacy concierge. And they're like your relationships wingman. They get to know your vibe, and they hand select incredible curated experiences called Scenes. And these scenes include premium items delivered discreetly right to your door. So I really like that there's no more mental load trying to figure out what to do or awkward conversations. It's just all about customized connection with Aria. And it's really about igniting the thrill of those early days, but with the comfort and depth of your current bond. And I think this stat speaks volumes. 75% of couples report feeling closer after exploring with Aria. And Aria is inclusive of all couples, all sexualities, and all gender identities. And they're making a commitment to sexy again for anyone, someone who is in a relationship. So head over to Arya. FYI, that's spelled a R Y A dot, FYI. And use code BEAUTY for 15 off to get started today. That's a R Y, A dot, FYI, Code Beauty. Give your relationship the gift of connection. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show. Do you ever get bored of skincare?

[Jill Dunn]

I think I get bored about the mentality sometimes or, like, how we approach. Like, I feel like I'm, I guess, not bored. I get frustrated.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

I love beauty. I think it's a fascinating subject. I want there to be more acceptance for different kinds of beauty, and I think that beauty standards are made up. So it's really interesting to like, talk about, like, the fairy tales and, like, everybody's different groups.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Like, I think it's.

[Jill Dunn]

I think that's fascinating. But beauty does impact how you feel.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

It just does.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And so. Yeah. No. I guess the answer is no. But, like. Okay. Do I get bored with launches? Sometimes? Yes.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, my God. Do we need another hyaluronic acid serum?

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Do we?

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah, me too. No, I think there was that peak right. In 2020. And then I think we're just sort of. People are just sort of, like, reassessing and seeing what they actually need and what's exciting you in terms. In terms of innovation, because you get to see a lot as you. You're formulating and. Is there any other news? Do what you want to share here.

[Jill Dunn]

Joyce is working on something really cool that she just taught me. I can't talk about it, though. Okay. Because I don't want anyone else to start researching. She's actually doing some cool ip. Yeah, she's the best. I'm excited with treatments.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Does that count?

[Charlotte Palermino]

Sure.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I think treatments. I got Botox for the first time.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Oh.

[Jill Dunn]

Like three or four months ago.

[Joyce De Lemos]

And it works.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Wow.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Thanks.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm 37 and I got it. For the first time, I do think preventative Botox is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Agree.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, I'm just like. And this is like actually where I'm like, doctors, please stop doing this. It's. It's creating stress and anxiety where it doesn't need to be. When you start to see the wrinkles forming. Sure. But before they form to prevent them, I think that's a. Unless if you are independently wealthy, it's a waste of money. Money. And as somebody who was very much so struggling financially in her early to mid twenties, the thought of somehow scrambling together 500 bucks is absolutely insane to me. And you shouldn't even be. You shouldn't even be talking about it.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Because you're creating that stress and anxiety. I love microneedling. I'm excited for PDRN for getting over here. Hopefully. I love going to. I was in Seoul last year thanks to Beauty of Joseon. I went on a brand trip with them, which was so cool. But I got to do like that thing where you go into the medical clinics and like, you're there for like seven hours. Yeah. It was so fun. But just the way that they approach aesthetics is just totally different. Like here we're like, it's gonna empower you. And there they're like, old people look sick. Yeah, so don't look sick. They literally had a PowerPoint. I honestly was like. And I was like, I kind of appreciate the blunt.

[Carlene Higgins]

No filter.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, no filter. No filter. But it's also funny because, like, they're just like, okay, well this is the beauty standard that you're going for. Then do this. And you're like, like, hard to argue, sir. And so don't dance around it. They're just. They're like, I'm kind of excited for K Beauty to come to the US In a. More like retailers are starting to pick them up. And I'm excited for that because I think that beauty has been a little bit inflated in price in the US What I will say though, with K beauty brands and the thing is that people don't know they do something called dusting a lot. And I only know this cuz Joyce actually used to work at a K beauty contract manufacturer that she actually brought into the US as well, they do something called dusting. And so I think that K Beauty products are superior for textures. But if the price is really cheap and they're claiming like 30 active ingredients, it's probably only one or two that are active. So that's like My one thing is, I'm like, oh, like, I wish they were just, like, a little. They're. They're marketing geniuses.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

But sometimes I'm like, ooh. They're setting an expectation up in the mind of consumers that every brand should have these 30 ingredients.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

But, like, really, they just have, like, nice and might in it.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

I think the price point is it can't be beat. It really can't be beat.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Well, it's really interesting to me that Sephora has not doubled down on K Beauty. They really have haven't.

[Jill Dunn]

That's all I will say.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Okay, eyes. We got an eye. Look. We got a look.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Am I wrong or am I. I think it's.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Oh, no, I don't think you're wrong.

[Jill Dunn]

They have. What's that?

[Charlotte Palermino]

Then I met.

[Jill Dunn]

They have.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Then I met you and that one. I want to try that. You're just mentioning, but I haven't tried it.

[Jill Dunn]

So cool.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, they're gondola. So pretty. Glow recipe is obviously K Beauty adjacent.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Sure, they're.

[Jill Dunn]

They are K Beauty, but they're not.

[Charlotte Palermino]

In the sense of the pre. They're not. Not cosrx.

[Joyce De Lemos]

No.

[Jill Dunn]

You know, I've heard rumors is all I will say.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Which will massively shift how people buy in those stores. But it's like the ordinary.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

The thing is, you just cannot get mad about the format when people complain about the formula. I'm like, it was 15 bucks.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, the texture. Yeah. That's why it's 15. Go to Niod if you want a nice texture.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Actually, in Canada, Holt Renford just introduced K Beauty. They just brought in a whole bunch of brands.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm sorry, K Beauty. From an experiential standpoint, from the fact that you can use, you know, just. It's just so gentle.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Like, they're very focused on barriers to be. It's tough to beat, especially in a world where if you want to spend money, go get, like, micro needling or laser and then use K Beauty. Like, you're gonna have a good skincare routine.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And it's why our prices, like, we're trying to keep them as transparent as possible because, you know, we know that we need to compete with K Beauty.

[Joyce De Lemos]

Yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

What are you de. Influencing lately?

[Jill Dunn]

I don't know if I want to say this, because I'm like, it's. It's, like, against my brand. I. I just haven't been wearing that much sunscreen this winter.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Mic drop clip.

[Jill Dunn]

It's largely because I actually don't know if I can get my sunscreens anymore for the summer. So I'm rationing, so to be clear. But I use a lot less. And it's because, you know, when the UV index is under 2 and I work in an office all day, realistically the amount of UV I'm getting is quite low. But the thing is I, because I retinol and laser my face to hell and back. Like, I also don't want to take any ch. Like everyone's like, whenever somebody's like, oh, like there's no risk for, for like skin cancer. I'm like, sure. But like, have they ever studied somebody that puts their skin through what I put my skin through? So I've actually been relying on my like makeup SPF or like a tiny dab of sunscreen. And I have a UV camera and so I've been like monitoring my dark spots and nothing's progressed.

[Charlotte Palermino]

So you have a UV camera at home?

[Jill Dunn]

I have like seven. Oh, okay. So the first time I bought it, it I found. Do you remember the campaign by Dove where they had sunscreen? I think it was Dev. It might not be Dove, but there was a campaign with a large conglomerate that basically had the UV camera on the street. And so this was before UV cameras were readily available. Now you can just buy them on Amazon.

[Charlotte Palermino]

I didn't know that.

[Jill Dunn]

I have, I have like a 5,000 I like literally like saved up forever. So if you look at my videos from 2020, I basically saved forever for this $5,000 camera. I was like, oh, it's a business write off. Not understanding that you don't get the money back on business write offs.

[Charlotte Palermino]

That was, it's like that tax. Write it off.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, tax codes. And so. But it was, it's a super high def. And so I have that one harder to use. But it was the guy who made the camera for the campaign. So he made me a UV camera because I begged him. I found him on the.

[Charlotte Palermino]

You could be renting that out on Pickle. You know, you know that Pickle Apple. I'm not joking. Recoup some of that.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm like, one day Dew is gonna have a sunscreen and we're gonna make people stand in front of this very high res UV camera.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah. What is happening? I'm gonna move on to social. A little bit of social media. What's happening with Tick Tock Shop? Are you on Tick Tock Shop?

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So I'm on Tick Tock Shop. I actually don't promote Tick Tock. Shop as much anymore because I find it actually is throttling my performance.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

It's not performing as well as it used to.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

So I. I would say. I mean, I love TikTok shop. I think it's. It's did so many wonderful things for Do do is still on TikTok shop. I love the. I love how transparent it is. People are like, oh, my God. Like, TikTok's all ads now. And I'm like, it always was. You're just disclosing it now.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

Like, I, I. The amount of undisclosed ads on that platform is met. And I think because we work in the industry, we know when something is an ad 100%. And. Well, and some of them I can actually, like, they're verbatim the brief that I got. And I'm like, wow, okay.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And they didn't disclose. I was like, cool, cool, cool. And so you. And then you're called a hater when you point it out. So now I don't even point it out anymore. I'm like, whatever. Like, it's not. I'm gonna teach y' all how to fish.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Keep scrolling. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Commenting. But I think it's a more honest transact. It's a more honest video.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Just having that big yellow or orange cart art, but yeah. I mean, Dew has sold, like, tens of thousands of products.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Incredible. See, we don't have Tick Tock Shop in Canada. I've never seen it.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

But I understand the power of it.

[Jill Dunn]

Are you getting it now?

[Charlotte Palermino]

I. Not at the moment. I don't know what's gonna happen, but maybe they'll. They'll.

[Jill Dunn]

But no. Now that you're in the U.S. no.

[Charlotte Palermino]

No. Because right now is your address is Canada. Yeah. Is there anything else that is kind of popping off for you right now that or is blowing up your DMs? People are talking to you a lot about on social media.

[Jill Dunn]

I think people really want to understand the minutiae, because I do think that it's. With some of these launches, you do have to be an expert to be able to tell the difference between them. Like the. It's like the difference of, like, two or three ingredients. And so people really want to understand what they should and shouldn't be buying. I also think. Do you feel like right now the beauty slowdown is just what happened in 2018 with all of, like, the naked palettes? That's what I feel like is kind of happening right now with skincare. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

I think that there's. It's just kind of an inevitability of. Of it being, like, a peak and then a bit of a petering off and the cream, and then it's gonna.

[Jill Dunn]

Just keep going up and down.

[Charlotte Palermino]

We'll see palettes come back again, you know.

[Jill Dunn]

Exactly. Well, I'm like. I feel like everyone's obsessed with makeup right now and playing and drawing on their face, and I'm always like, maybe it's because, like, we're in a moment of, like, economic, like, contraction. And so, you know, it's like, people want to, like, play and, like, you know, dissociate. But. Yeah.

[Charlotte Palermino]

What launch have you been the most excited about in beauty recently?

[Jill Dunn]

Honestly, it's all sunscreen.

[Charlotte Palermino]

All sunscreen.

[Jill Dunn]

It's all sunscreen.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Any. Any new one that you tried that you're obsessed with?

[Joyce De Lemos]

Mm.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm really excited about Ultraviolet coming into the US actually. Let's talk about that. So, full disclosure, I. I love the founders and Ava. They're absolute gems.

[Charlotte Palermino]

We met one of them last year. I forget which one, but they came to Canada last year.

[Jill Dunn]

God, they're so cool. So they really get it. They understand I make great sunscreens.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And I just.

[Carlene Higgins]

Just.

[Jill Dunn]

I just know they're going to be good. Are they going to be as good as their Australian formulas? I. Here's my thing. I'm like, if they were as good, then why would. Why wouldn't you just also launch those American formulas in Australia? So I'm just kind of like, they're going to be. I know they're going to be as good as you can make them in the United States. And in a time where there's a contraction of Korean sunscreen and we're not going to be able to get our hands on it as easily, I'm very happy that there's going to be an option that people can quickly get.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

That's fantastic.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Which. Which formula have you liked the most? I only know the bottle colors.

[Jill Dunn]

I. I know, right? I'm like the. The fluid.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Is like the road. Milky toner.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah. I'm glad we're talking about this, because we talked about it last year, but I do agree that this coming into the US Is going to be a game changer, big time.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Make supergoop scared.

[Charlotte Palermino]

I don't. Supergoop sunscreens do not suit me at all.

[Jill Dunn]

I actually like some of their. I like some of their formulas, but it's like, we need more competition. We need. Need the large conglomerates to understand this is a massive market, and I think they do get it. You like so good.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Yeah. Okay everyone, it's called the Fave fluid ultralight screen SPF 50. Carlene's talked about it many times, so get your hands on that.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm excited.

[Charlotte Palermino]

That's great. Well, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for having me and sounding off on all of these Hot Topic headlines and always great. Love it. Everybody follow Charlotte on Tick Tock and.

[Jill Dunn]

Instagram at Charlotte Parlay.

[Charlotte Palermino]

And everybody needs to follow Ju Skin as well. Oh yeah, your brand.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog @breaking beauty podcast.com.

[Charlotte Palermino]

While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a.

[Carlene Higgins]

Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast and did you know.

[Charlotte Palermino]

We also have a port private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.

[Carlene Higgins]

You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302.

[Charlotte Palermino]

And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.

[Carlene Higgins]

See you.

[Jill Dunn]

Please note that this episode may contain.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.

[Jill Dunn]

Individuals on the show may have a.

[Charlotte Palermino]

Direct or indirect financial interest in products.

[Jill Dunn]

Or services referred to in this episode.