Makeup Legend Bobbi Brown is Here! Her “Still Bobbi” Memoir Reveals, How-to Use Jones Road Miracle Balm the *Right* Way and “Hacking” Her Way To The Top

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast – Makeup Legend Bobbi Brown is Here!

Episode Date: September 24, 2025
Hosts: Jill Dunn & Carlene Higgins
Guest: Bobbi Brown
Summary prepared for listeners who haven’t heard the episode yet.

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Episode Overview

This episode features iconic makeup artist and entrepreneur Bobbi Brown, celebrating the release of her memoir, Still Bobbi. The conversation spans her trailblazing beauty career—from building her eponymous brand to launching Jones Road Beauty—along with insights into her creative philosophy, resilience in the face of rejection, unfiltered stories from fashion history, and deep dives into makeup tips and brand-building hacks.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bobbi’s Memoir “Still Bobbi” – A Candid Retelling

• Why a Memoir Now: Bobbi shares how she was approached by an agent to tell her own story, emphasizing that even though she initially resisted, she realized sharing her journey could help others (09:09-10:15).
  • Quote: “I was a hacker mom, a hacker employee, a hacker wife. I know how to get anything done. But this is my 10th book, and this is my story.” – Bobbi Brown (09:42)
• Process: Dictated her memoir to a ghostwriter during long walks in the park, describing it as cathartic (10:16-10:27).
• Why Pictures Matter: Bobbi describes her lifelong habit of archiving everything and thinking visually, even compiling beauty books by organizing photos first (10:39-11:17).
• Opening Up About Mental Health: For the first time publicly, Bobbi discusses her family’s struggles. She chose to share these stories in a way that honored privacy but emphasized resilience (12:05-13:33).
  • Quote: “Things happen that are out of your control, but it’s what you do with the information that makes the difference.” – Bobbi Brown (13:05)

2. Resilience, Rejection, and “Hacking” the Beauty Industry

• Learning from Rejection: Bobbi recounts early setbacks, like a family connection in Hollywood sending back her letter marked up in red, which gutted her but became an important lesson (16:07-17:05).
  • Quote: “I was gutted. But it was a good lesson.” – Bobbi Brown (17:03)
• Standing By Her Style: Despite industry resistance to her minimalist aesthetic in the 80s, Bobbi stuck to her guns, emphasizing the importance of editing both her kit and her approach (18:28-19:14).
• The Secret Sauce: Being nice, punctual, and adaptable set Bobbi apart—contrary to the diva culture prevalent in fashion at the time (19:35-20:36).
  • Quote: “I was always the nice girl... I thanked people for hiring me.” – Bobbi Brown (19:54)
• Setting Boundaries: As a working mother, Bobbi made it clear when she could leave a shoot, modeling healthy workplace limits before it was fashionable (22:03-22:31).

3. Breakthrough Moments & Fashion History

• Naomi Campbell’s First Vogue Cover: Bobbi shares behind-the-scenes tales of her iconic work with Naomi Campbell, photographer Patrick Demarchelier, and the “genius” shoot that helped shape fashion history (26:12-26:56).
  • Memorable Moment: Patrick shouting “genial, genial!” on set (26:53).
  • Fun fact: Naomi didn’t actually like the makeup look, but the image became legendary (27:16-27:31).
• Power of Networking: Bobbi’s story about meeting Jeff Zucker’s grandmother at a book signing, which led to her 14-year run as Today Show’s beauty expert, illustrates the importance of serendipity and openness (27:59-28:56).
  • Quote: “I got on the show Monday morning. And stayed for 14 years.” – Bobbi Brown (28:54)

4. Exiting Her Namesake Brand

• Why She Left Bobbi Brown Cosmetics: A complex, emotional exit from the company she founded after a change in management culture and creative restrictions (31:08-33:26).
  • Quote: “If you don’t have those things happen to you, you’ll have no room for something new and possibly better.” – Bobbi Brown (33:26)
• Navigating the Aftermath: With four and a half years left on her non-compete, Bobbi worked through sadness, anger, and then excitement about future possibilities (31:27-32:21).
• Founders Supporting Founders: Candid about how she received support from peers like Marcia Kilgore, and now extends the same mentorship to other entrepreneurs, symbolizing a new era of community in beauty (34:33-35:36).

5. Launching Jones Road Beauty—A New Chapter

• Brand Premise & Differentiation: Clean, multipurpose makeup that's easy to use and enhances natural beauty, with wide DTC reach and a growing retail footprint (36:31-37:13).
  • Quote: “You don’t need to be a makeup artist to wear Jones Road.” – Bobbi Brown (37:13)
• The Miracle Balm’s “Right” Way:
  • Bestselling, multi-use skin tint and moisturizer that adds luminosity, acts as blush or body balm, and is applied by breaking the surface, warming between fingers, and patting on (37:31-39:14).
  • Quote: “Break the seal… it activates the color. Rub your fingers together, pat it on, take the excess, and put it on your neck.” – Bobbi Brown (38:31)
• What the Foundation: Creamy, in-a-tub foundation for a natural skin finish, designed to be applied with fingers or a designated brush (40:30-41:17).
• Formulation & Creativity: Bobbi still personally guides formulations and photo shoots, emphasizing improvisation, “scrappiness,” and creativity (41:54-43:45).
• Brick-and-Mortar Expansion: Now at 10+ profitable locations, Jones Road grew organically out of customer demand rather than corporate strategy (45:11-46:57).

6. Family Business & Leadership Lessons

• Working with Family: Son Cody oversees marketing and company growth, with defined communication rules to keep their working relationship healthy (46:59-48:57).
  • Quote: “It’s quite something to watch the smartest guy in the room be your son.” – Bobbi Brown (48:02)

7. Makeup Tips & Brand New Launches

• Jones Road Classic Lipstick (Just Launched): Modern “classics”—12 shades based on Bobbi’s original lipstick pencils, with creamy, full-pigment comfort and throwback practical names (49:53-51:19).
  • In-episode swatching and live reactions to shades: “It feels very creamy, and it’s comfortable.” – Jill Dunn (51:03)
• Dark Circles Masterclass:
  • Eye cream + Jones Road face pencils (neutralize with pink/peach first, then lightly layer a shade lighter than foundation). Set with Japanese-milled powder if needed (52:02-53:40).
  • New concealers expected in 2026 and 2027!
• Skin Prep Tips: Jones Road sunscreen creates a subtle blur; lightweight moisturizer or “Miracle Cream” for extra dry days (53:43-54:19).
• Organizing Secrets & A Morbidly Practical Makeup Use: Bobbi organizes drawers for calm—some of her unused makeup even finds new life with morticians! (54:25-56:01)
  • Memorable Moment: “A woman came up to me at the Jones Road store in Chicago, and she was a mortician. She goes, 'I have to tell you, every single person gets Miracle Balm.'” – Bobbi Brown (55:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I am the ultimate hacker. I was a hacker mom, a hacker employee, a hacker wife. I know how to get anything done." – Bobbi Brown (09:42)
• “Things happen that are out of your control, but it’s what you do with the information that makes the difference.” – Bobbi Brown (13:05)
• “My best talent was that I wasn’t a skilled artist ... this forced me to rely on what I could do, and that’s what I could do, was speak to everyday women.” – Bobbi Brown (19:35)
• “I wasn’t a painter ... I realized, wow, they look so much better when I put a bronzer all over their face…not blues and yellows.” – Bobbi Brown (19:35)
• “You don’t need to be a makeup artist to wear Jones Road.” – Bobbi Brown (37:13)
• “Break the seal … it activates the color ... rub your fingers together, pat it on …” (Miracle Balm) – Bobbi Brown (38:31)
• “If you don’t have those things happen to you, you’ll have no room for something new and possibly better.” – Bobbi Brown (33:26)

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Major Timestamps

• Memoir Process & Personal Stories: 09:06–14:40
• Rejection & “Hacking” Your Way Up: 16:07–20:53
• Naomi Campbell’s Vogue Cover Story: 26:12–27:31
• Leaving Bobbi Brown Cosmetics: 31:08–33:50
• Mentoring & Founders Supporting Founders: 34:33–36:10
• All About Jones Road Beauty: 36:31–41:17
• Family Dynamics & Leadership at Jones Road: 46:59–48:57
• New Lipsticks & Practical Makeup Tips: 49:53–53:40
• Organizing, Gently Used Makeup, & Morticians: 54:25–56:05

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Final Thoughts

Bobbi Brown’s journey is as much about resilience, adaptability, and kindness as it is about technical mastery. Her candid stories—balancing motherhood and corporate life, redefining beauty trends, building and rebuilding brands, and mentoring the next generation—offer a masterclass in carving success on your own terms.

Listeners are left with practical advice (from makeup bag editing to under-eye concealer techniques), inspiration for career pivots, and a reminder that authenticity and generosity count as much in beauty as in life.

Transcript

[Bobbi Brown]

The following podcast is a dear media production.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty Podcast, everyone. I'm one of your co hosts, Jill Dunn, and I'm here alongside my fellow co host, Carlene Higgins, like we have been for the past eight years. Years.

[Jill Dunn]

Hey, Jill. And many of you know we're long time magazine beauty editors turned beauty podcasters. We have a catalog of over 400 episodes now where we chat about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, you have to check out a back catalog if you haven't yet. We have conversations with everyone from skincare pros like Dr. Shereen Idris, hair masters like Chris McMillan, and celebrities like Haley Bieber and Tracy Ellis Ross. But I have to say, Carlene, this week's guest, she's pretty much a household name. It doesn't matter if you know what's going on in the beauty industry or not. And that is none other than the iconic makeup artist Bobby Brown.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes, even my mom knows who Bobby Brown is.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do you know what I mean?

[Jill Dunn]

Bobby has been an arbiter of effortless you but better makeup for decades now. First at her namesake brand, Bobby Brown that she launched in 1991. Talk about ahead of the curve. She launched with 10 lipsticks. She then sold the company to Estee Lauder and would later depart in 2016. Fast forward to 2020 when she launched her juggernaut, Jones Road Beauty. This company was projected to have done 160 million in sales in 2024.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's unbelievably successful and so many people know that brand and they don't even know necessarily that Bobby's associated with it. So it's quite a journey for her and Bobby. She's been a trusted voice in media for decade, outlets like the Today show. She was on TV for 14 years. She was a beauty editor at Yahoo. And her real point of difference, Carlene, is that she was always about educating people. You would always leave with a tip or a trick and not feel overwhelmed with all this stuff in your makeup bag you're never going to use. She was just really about makeup for the everyday woman and still is.

[Jill Dunn]

She's written, I think, 10 books. We're going to be talking all about that today and Jones Road is just smashing it. They just opened their 11th bricks and mortar store in Boston last week, following stores in Manhattan, Dallas, Palm Beach. There's more to come. And by the way, if you're listening, From Canada. A little birdie told us that they are. They're working on it. They're working on it.

[Carlene Higgins]

So this week we are covering a lot of ground with Bobby. And just yesterday, Carlene, like you said, she launched her 10th book. It's a very different book for Bobby Brown because this is actually a memoir. I think a lot of us know the public figure Bobby Brown, but this is infused with a lot more personal stories. It's not just techniques where she did a lot of how to books in the past. This is actually her story and how she felt about her entire career and all the highs and lows that went along with it.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. It's called Still Bobby. And we learn about the 90s moments that were so iconic in her history, like when she was doing covers at Vogue with Naomi Campbell and what it was really like to walk out the door at Estee Lauder and leave her namesake brand behind.

[Carlene Higgins]

And, you know, she talks about her life growing up and some family struggles and everything. So I feel like I just got to know her Carlene, on a different level, which I really appreciate, and everyone listening. Fun fact. Carlene used to work with Bobby Brown in her magazine days, right? Didn't you have a column with her?

[Jill Dunn]

I can't believe I totally forgot about that until you brought it up. I'm pretty sure I did the assigning on that one. And yes, she was a columnist at the magazine.

[Carlene Higgins]

It was called Ask Bobby. I think you'll have to take that out of the crate.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. And honestly, you guys are in for a treat today. We really get the most out of Bobby. She's just so disarming. She really loves to bring us in on her secrets. She's giving us tricks. She's spilling tea. She's just like boss lady. And I have so much respect for her. She's 68 now and she looks phi nominal. So you're going to be hearing makeup tips galore as well, like how to use her Jones Road Miracle Bomb the right way, if you. If you don't know, takes a little decoding. We're going to get those top tips from her today trick for covering dark under eye circles. And we get a sneak peek of her Jones Road satin lipstick that just launched.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's right, it was last week. And she personally color matched you and I, Carlene, and I'm putting that on my resume. Honestly, it's going on my LinkedIn.

[Jill Dunn]

Absolutely. She also shares the top three qualities that she's honed for success, the words of advice she lives by, and we Engage in a really fun round of rapid fire at the end.

[Carlene Higgins]

And please check out our YouTube channel. It's at Breaking Beauty Podcast.

[Jill Dunn]

And stay tuned for our Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast. We're going to do a very special giveaway of a signed copy of Still Bobby signed by Bobby Brown herself. And we're going to be including a gift basket of Jones Road products. So, so excited about that. Welcome, Bobby Brown.

[Carlene Higgins]

Sake's Body is supporting our show this week. I have to tell you about Cake's body because they're basically a wardrobe hack. And cakes are comfortable, seamless adhesive nipple covers that can be worn with every outfit. They're super seamless. They have large size and they have shape ranges to ensure seamless coverage for all different types and shapes of boobs. And they even have infinity edges. So you get that really seamless coverage even under form fitting tops that have sort of really thin material. And I appreciate that they're gentle as well. So they have an adhesive free center that they kind of call the nip nook, which is really cute and that protects the sensitive nipple area. Everything is made from medical grade silicone and dermatologists tested and approved and safe for sensitive skin. I plan on wearing my Cakes body with those sort of satin slip dresses, that very 90s inspired look that is really big for fall. So if you want to try Cakes Body yourself, we have a special promo code. To check out the product for yourself, go to cakesbody.com. you can even use code beauty for 20 off your first order this fall. So once again, go to cakesbody.com that's C-A K-E-S body. And use code BEAUTY for 20 off your first order this fall. And once again, you can check out the product for yourself. Go to cakesbody.com and use code beauty for 20 off your order this fall. We'll link to the software in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Jill Dunn]

Are you recording me?

[Bobbi Brown]

We're about to go deep.

[Jill Dunn]

This is my first time. I'm kind of nervous. Wait, did you say come together?

[Bobbi Brown]

You've been spending too much time with me.

[Jill Dunn]

Hey, I'm Erin Daniella and this is my husband, Abe.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hey.

[Jill Dunn]

We've been married for over 10 years. We have almost four kids and we've started and survived more businesses than we can count.

[Bobbi Brown]

Some were great. Some, let's just say we learned a lot.

[Jill Dunn]

Reality tv, that's just part of our story. But TV has limits and this show doesn't.

[Bobbi Brown]

Our new podcast come together Dives into everything. Love, sex, parenting, business, and what it's really like to mix marriage with work. It's raw, it's funny, it's honest. And yes, sometimes it's a little awkward.

[Jill Dunn]

Nothing is off the table because let's be real, if you're not coming together, you're probably falling apart.

[Bobbi Brown]

Join us every week on Come Together wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast. Bobby Brown, we're thrilled that you're joining us. Thank you so much for making the time.

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, my pleasure. You have such a great voice.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, really?

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, I. I listening to myself back. I beg to differ, but I appreciate the compliment.

[Bobbi Brown]

I don't think anyone likes to hear themselves talk.

[Carlene Higgins]

You were here with us back in 2018. I did not get the chance to meet you, but Carlene did. And you guys were chatting in a closet in founder, maid or something.

[Jill Dunn]

I mean, you do all the shoots. You've done all these shoots for many years. You get. You're scrappy. We're scrappy.

[Bobbi Brown]

You have to be scrappy. I've been scrappy my whole life. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So it didn't.

[Jill Dunn]

It didn't offend you. It didn't take you by surprise.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. But, you know, so much has happened since 2018, and congratulations on your book. Your 10th book.

[Bobbi Brown]

My 10th book.

[Carlene Higgins]

Incredible. I read it on the beach this summer. So tell us what your process was like for writing this. Because it's a memoir, which is quite different than your other books, which were very much how to and tutorials and wonderful in their own way. But it struck me that you were very much like an archivist because you have the original, like, invite for your brand, and you had all these cool photos of your kids, young, where you're working. And you also admit that you don't even know really how to type.

[Bobbi Brown]

Okay, so I definitely don't know how to type. But I have. I have since figured out how to get anything done. I need to get done.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

I am the ultimate hacker. I was a hacker mom, a hacker employee, a hacker wife. I know how to get anything done. But this is my 10th book, and this is my story. And I really did not set out to write a memoir. The story is an agent came to my office and said, we have to do your memoir. I said, I don't wanna do a memoir. And she said, no, we just need to tell your story. Cause your story helps so many people, including herself, and how you do things and how you think about things. So she got me a book deal. So I said, okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Just like that.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And then I had a ghost writer that I spoke to on the phone a couple times a week, and I did it while I was walking in the park. So I got. I never had more steps in my life.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

And it was really cathartic. It was really interesting for me to go way back.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And all the photos and everything, you had all of that just at the ready.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm this crazy, like, documentarian of everything. And I still, of course, I have three kids. I have all their photos. I have all our vacation. If my husband says, where's the picture? When Dylan was this, I will automatically think, I know what folder it's in. Sometimes it's under, let's say Paris. Sometimes it's under family trip. And I've just always been crazy that way. And my life are really pictures. I mean, I think in visual terms and I think in pictures. And some of my beauty books, by the way, I did the photos first and then we wrote the book.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

Makes sense. Yeah, to me.

[Carlene Higgins]

Makes sense. Yes.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. Not to the publisher, but to me.

[Jill Dunn]

I remember from your website that I don't know if you still have it, but on your blog, like, there were just. It was like endless content of you backstage and behind the scenes and working with celebrities. Like, you must just have the best photo albums at home.

[Bobbi Brown]

I do. Well, I have photo albums up until iPhone. Then I have it all digitally.

[Jill Dunn]

That's like, everybody.

[Carlene Higgins]

Polaroids. So cool. So cool.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I have a secret Instagram. It's not really a secret, but it's called BB Portfolio. So it's all old photos and different makeups I've done and different memories.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, can anyone access it?

[Bobbi Brown]

Anyone can access it.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, we'll link to that.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's amazing.

[Jill Dunn]

That's great.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, check it out for insp. I was really taken with how you shared so many personal stories in. In your book. And for instance, you were really forthcoming about some of the mental health challenges that your family experienced growing up. Was that the first time that you really talked about that publicly?

[Bobbi Brown]

I think so. I mean, no one really asked me before. You know, I always. They asked me questions about my mom and how she introduced me to beauty and.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

So, you know. No. And especially when she was alive, I just. It wasn't my story to tell. And, you know, I told the story in the book mostly how I dealt with it and. Because it's not my story, and I, you know, I tried to be, you know, I didn't tell all. You know, the intensities Anyone that experiences mental illness from a family member, they know what it's like. It's pretty rough, right?

[Carlene Higgins]

That, like you said, what made you want to open up about something so deeply personal?

[Bobbi Brown]

I just thought it was important because the story in the book is things happen that are out of your control, but it's what you do with the information that makes the difference. Right. I mean, I could have acted differently. I could have thought differently, and I somehow have this resilience, and I understand what the situation is, and I don't let it define me. Right, right. So I wanted to share that.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, we were, you know, because you mentioned it, it's not your story to tell, but it would have impacted you. It would have been a part of your formative being. And so I wonder how, reflecting back, like, how you are today, it's so hard to separate with you, Bobbi, like, your personal and your professional. Because we know that your professional is like, yeah, you're so much of your being is in it. So, like, how do you think that experience kind of formed who you are today?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, I think certainly it is. You know, I've always been an empathetic person. You know, I do understand that people go through things, and as a makeup artist, you work with women, and everyone's got a story. You know, either they're going through menopause or they just had a baby, or they're, you know, a new widow, widower or whatever. Widow. And, you know, I hear the stories. I mean, I don't care how famous you are, how regular you are, everyone has a story. So I've always been someone that loves telling stories. And, you know, when it came time to tell my story, you know, I. It happened. You know, all these things really happen.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I think it's gonna be like you said, your publisher, when they came to you, they were talking about the inspiration, and I think that. That you even opening up about that because it was a different time, and people talking about it now like you are. I think it's going to give people the permission to maybe share their own experience. Right, right.

[Bobbi Brown]

And it's very funny you say permission. You know, for me, when I was a young mom, you know, trying to navigate things and just, you know, it was rough. I'm not gonna lie. I mean, I had these at the time, two little kids, and I was working and traveling and going on early TV shows. And, you know, I tried so hard to, you know, be perfect and get it all together. And I heard Tina Brown once talk, and someone said, well, how did you do this? And she goes, honestly, it was a shit show. She said it was a mess. My house was a mess. My kids were a mess. I arrived at work and it gave me permission to be my. To say, you're right. You know, it's okay. I am still doing my work. I'm getting it done. I do. I used to arrive at Neiman Marcus, you know, after traveling to Texas, and my kids had been up all night. And one time I walked into Neiman Marcus and I had baby spit up down the back of my blazer.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

You know, and it was like, oops. You know, so we quickly cleaned it and I went on.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

And then I realized all this stuff is normal part of life.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

That's the superpower that moms have. You just do it how you do it. Who knows? You just do it.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, you do it. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I loved your stories about coming up as a makeup artist. And definitely, I think it's notable, like, the amount of rejection that you cop to. And again, going back to that resilience idea, and the one story that stuck with me was how you had written a letter to an agent and they marked it all up in red, and they were like, you can't even get your grammar straight. Like, don't even. Don't even try.

[Carlene Higgins]

And went to the trouble of mailing it back to you. Right. They didn't, like.

[Bobbi Brown]

Four months later, I got the letter back. It was actually my stepfather's cousin who was a very successful producer in Hollywood. And I thought, oh, I'm just going to write this guy a letter, and he's going to say, come on out, kid. I'll get you an internship. I'll get you a job. And he did not. It literally was. With a bright marker, he corrected the entire letter and said, next time you write a letter, check your grammar. I was gutted. I was gutted. But it was a good lesson.

[Carlene Higgins]

Did you ever turn that around and maybe do that to someone else ever?

[Bobbi Brown]

No. No. But I get resumes all the time, and I always will be truthful and say, if this resume lands on someone's pile with a hundred other, no one's gonna look at it. It does not set you apart. What could you do?

[Jill Dunn]

This is the truth of, though, is, like, this is how it was. And, you know, coming up in the fashion magazine industry, it was so, you know, to watch this evolution, this revolution really, where that kind of harshness was, became unacceptable, which is a good thing. But this is our history. This is how we came up, especially in fashion. It was rough.

[Bobbi Brown]

It was rough, and it was rough. And, you know, I remember being in a bathroom once pumping, because I had just had a baby. And Polly Mellon, the famous, you know, editor of Vogue, I hear her screaming, where's Bobby Brown? And I didn't tell anyone that I was in the bathroom pumping. And, you know, it was the early 90s. I'm sure she thought I was doing something else in the bathroom, which I wasn't. And when I was a wreck and when I finally walked out of there, I went up to her and I said, said, I. You know, I apologize, Polly. I was. And she goes, oh, when I had my baby, I nursed all the babies in there, you know, and so it was a moment of bonding. Yeah. No one talked about those things back.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And, you know, you talk a lot in the book about people didn't jive with your makeup style, especially in the 80s. You're not about the contoured clown makeup face, but how did you know to just keep going? Because a lot of people would be, like, gonna pack it in now. Like, people don't like my makeup.

[Bobbi Brown]

You know, I'm not a packer inner.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm not a packer inner. I'm like, okay, that didn't work. How do I do it differently? And I literally would come home every single night, and I would take my entire makeup bag, and I'd throw it on the ground and reorganize it. And, you know, I realized, okay, I only need these clown colors sometimes. So I put those in a Ziploc. And then I kind of said, I don't need 14 taupes. I just need the best one and let me, like, go through and choose them. So I was always working on how I could do things easier and better.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right. The power of the edit, you know? And in the book, you even say, and I think a lot of people might be surprised, you, quote, say my best talent was that I wasn't a skilled artist. This forced me to rely on what I could do, and that's what I could do, was speak to everyday women. But people think of you, Bobby Brown, makeup artist. It's in your title. But you're saying I wasn't a skilled artist.

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, I wasn't a painter. Like, I would look at, you know, some of the, you know, my contemporaries, and they would just sculpt and paint, and, you know, I'd be in awe. But I tried, and it didn't work. But I realized, wow, they look so much better when I put a Bronzer all over their face. Wow. They look better when I just, you know, line their eye with a little bit of brown smoke and not, you know, blues and yellows. So I just started doing that and then. And people started to like it. And no one said, no, this is not right. And if they didn't like what I did, they didn't ask me back. And then I found other people that really liked what I did. But I think they also liked having me around. Cause I was nice, I was always on time. I spoke to everybody. I asked what I could do to help. I did things without asking. And I thanked people for hiring me. And so I think that kind of started my career. And I worked on my skill to get better.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's an important lesson too. Coming up is that idea of just, like, do what you do really well, nicely, and even the small things. People love working with people they like and where, you know, things just go smoothly. So.

[Bobbi Brown]

But it wasn't the norm when I was a young makeup artist. If you had an attitude, if you were late, if you were fabulous, those people got hired again.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, they're like creative genius.

[Bobbi Brown]

Bring them bright. Exactly. And, you know, I was the always the nice girl, you know, sitting at a table with all these incredibly talented hairdressers from other countries and stylists and, you know, supermodels. I remember one shoot, we were in a location van for Vogue. We were told to show up at, you know, 8 o', clock, 9 o'. Clock. Of course I did the hairdresser, did the model, who was Linda Evangelista. I think she finally showed up at 2, 2:30. And instead of getting in trouble, the editor said, oh, Linda, you're here. Here's a bottle of champagne. Thank you so much for coming. And I remember the hairdresser and I just looked at each other like, you gotta be kidding.

[Carlene Higgins]

This is.

[Bobbi Brown]

I mean, we'd been sitting there for like six hours. Yeah, that was, that was that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Was that how it was? Yeah, it really was.

[Jill Dunn]

Editor will probably be the first one to be like, so, Bobby, how long's this gonna take?

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, and by the way, we're losing our light. And guess what? I left at 5 or 6 o'. Clock. Cause I had to go home to my kids.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, yeah, that was, you know, that's the sacrifice. Well, it's not sacrifice, but you had to do it. You have two jobs. You're a makeup artist and a mom.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I always left an assistant. I didn't just walk out the door. And, you know, then I started telling people before I would even take the job I could do it, but I leave at a certain time.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

Because, you know, you sit around on set, you sit around on set, you sit around on set and all of a sudden you start working and you're like, guys, I've been here all day, I gotta go.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah. Exact boundaries. That was another thing.

[Bobbi Brown]

That was.

[Jill Dunn]

Is not a thing.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

You know.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

Quince is supporting our show this week. So of course in this episode, we're talking about all the new fall beauty finds that are defining this autumn. But we need to talk about style staples too. And I want to tell you about why I love quints. Because quints, they really have all those elevated essentials for fall. So think 100% Mongolian cashmere from just $50. They also have washable silk tops and skirts. And right now I have my eye on a 100% leather oversized bomber jacket. It's in this like distressed brown color and it's only $250. It feels like such a steal. And Quince, everything that they have looks designer level, but it costs a fraction of the price and the quality. It's just as good if not better than designer items. I still have a couple of my cashmere sweaters from last winter. I will absolutely be wearing them this fall again. They have really held up up. And Quince is able to offer these amazing prices because they partner directly with ethical top tier factories. Basically they're cutting out the middleman so they're able to deliver these luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. So keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com breaking beauty for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's qi nce.com breaking beauty to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com breaking beauty we'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Jill Dunn]

Tell us the story about your first Vogue cover with Naomi Campbell.

[Bobbi Brown]

It was a cover try which you know, I was more than excited. Patrick Demarchelier was the photographer and I think the editor was Grace Coddington. I don't remember if it was her or Carlene de Cerf, but Didier did the hair and it was Naomi Campbell and she, you know, it was her first Vogue cover but she was still becoming Naomi. And we had to get up really early and get the model ready and shot at the beach. And I just remember Patrick yelling genial, genial. Which means genius, you know. And we shot it and you didn't know if it was a cover at all.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Bobbi Brown]

And when I heard it was a cover was when my husband showed up at a location van. He was my fiance at the time and he had the COVID of Vogue in his hand to give it to me. Cause he had a friend that worked in corporate in Vogue and that was like a big, big moment.

[Jill Dunn]

Wow.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow. And what was the reception from Naomi afterwards? Did you.

[Bobbi Brown]

She wasn't happy. So I remember just used, I had no lipsticks of my own at the time but I used a chocolate stain and I just blotted it on her lips her and filled in the whole lip. And I thought it Was gorgeous.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, gorgeous.

[Bobbi Brown]

I heard she didn't like it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, okay. Well, you guys are intrinsically bonded on your first vocal, no matter what. It's a moment in time. Right? It really reminded me in your book, the Power of Networking, which I don't think a lot of people coming up are doing as much of, because your stories about it was almost like the Forrest Gump movie, where he just ended up in all of these things because he talked to the right person at the right time. So could you share a couple of those?

[Bobbi Brown]

I mean, there were so many in my career. I mean, my favorite story is still when I was at a book signing for my first book in Florida. I was at Neiman Marcus, the In Circle ladies. Everyone's very fancy. And at the end of my talk, and in those days, I had to just get up and talk. There was no interview. And so I talked and I demonstrated and I said, are there any questions? And there was this very little lady sitting in the back of the room. And I just love. I always loved old people. Okay, I'm becoming one. But I always loved old people. So I went over to her, and she grabbed my hand after I answered her question about keeping lipstick on. And she said, honey, I've seen you on the Today show. I'd been on once. And she said, is there anything else you'd want to do in your career? And I said, I'd like to be a regular on the Today show, where that came from. She said, honey, Jeff Zucker is my grandson. And that was. Jeff Zucker was the executive producer at the time. And I got on the show Monday morning.

[Carlene Higgins]

Amazing.

[Bobbi Brown]

And stayed for 14 years.

[Carlene Higgins]

So powerful.

[Jill Dunn]

Maybe you've got a little bit of psychic mysticism or something.

[Carlene Higgins]

There's so many more of those gems in the book. Everyone. But of course, me. I love that you served up some major tea. And when I tell you that my jaw dropped when you talked about the royal wedding in your book, because the Royal wedding of Prince William and Kate Middleton, April 2011. And we knew that she used Bobby Brown products, your namesake brand at the.

[Bobbi Brown]

Time, which, you know, I did not do her makeup. I wish I did. It was one of my artists, Hannah Martin, who's become quite a sensation in the uk.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. But at the time, in the press, and I think up until right now, we were led to believe that she had done her own makeup. So I feel like this was a reveal in your book, a confirmation.

[Bobbi Brown]

I know that Kate was constantly coming into a Bobby counter, buying some of her favorite things. You Know, I think Sandwash Pink was one of it. One of them. I don't think it's made anymore, but I remember the color and Hannah did give me some information that I should set my alarm and watch.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, yeah. And so then she, you know, her and I were texting. I was sitting up. I remember it was like six in the morning or something and we were, and she, we were texting back and forth and she's like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. I did get a note though, that I guess I have hanging now in my office in Montclair from. Not from Kate, but from her person that wrote her letter saying how much she appreciated, you know, the makeup. Incredible.

[Jill Dunn]

I wore Bobbi Brown on my. Was my makeup of choice. Last time we chatted, which was in 2018 and we had you on the pod. We're gonna link to that in our show notes so everybody can hear the origin story of how you, how you launched that brand, but you bootstrapped it. You launched 10 lipsticks at Bergdorf's and then you left your namesake brand in 2016. And some people don't even know that.

[Carlene Higgins]

By the way, which is crazy that.

[Bobbi Brown]

People think I'm still there.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

And they, you know, a lot of people go into the Bobby Brown counters and ask for Miracle Balm or what the foundation. They don't understand the concept, you know. Well, it's your name. Yeah, they sold my name.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. They're like, how? How is it possible? And I think that you couldn't. When you and I chatted, I don't think there was a lot you could reveal about that time.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

But you do talk about it in the book. So what was going on when that split happened and the day you decided to walk out?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, the day it all came down, you know, I mean, it was. You read the book and you're like, did I quit or did I get fired? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's two stories. There's my story, and I'm sure there's another story. I don't know. But the day it ended, I still had four and a half years left on a non compete of 25 years. And I was 59 years old and I was like, okay, I didn't think I was gonna do anything else. I didn't know. I had no thoughts in my head. And, you know, I remember having periods of like, sadness, anger, and then total excitement about what could be. And, you know, you went back and forth between a lot of those emotions for a while and then eventually, the, you know, the sad, angry person went away and the excited person kind of came out.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, right. Was it a case of, like, were they sort of of wanting to launch products without your approval or your ideation.

[Bobbi Brown]

Or, like, one of many of those things? Yeah, kind of. You know, look, I was used to when my company was bought and I became part of the corporation. Leonard Lauder was the CEO, and our relationship was so incredibly close. He believed in me so much, I would just have to call him and say, I've got this idea. And he'd say, that is a winning idea. Let's do it. You know, I mean, there was another CEO that was there that everything I did, he'd write me thank you notes. Abhi, thank you so much for what you did this season at Bubba. You know, and things change. You know, not every person has the same style, right? And, you know, look, people get fired, people break up with people, people lose their jobs. People. There's always some reason for it. And there's, you know, if you don't have those things happen to you, you'll have no room for something new and possibly better.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jill Dunn]

I feel like writing a memoir must be a bit tricky thinking about who might get upset. So what was the most difficult thing to write about?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, first of all, it's been edited many, many times. And it really got edited by my husband, you know, where we talked about it. He says, are you sure you want to say it this way?

[Carlene Higgins]

Is he a lawyer?

[Bobbi Brown]

He is a lawyer. But it wasn't. There was nothing, you know, it wasn't a legal thing. It was. Why do you need to do that? You know, I didn't want to air dirty laundry. You know, get me a bottle of tequila and ask me these questions off air. I'll tell you the truth, but I'm just. I don't need to be that person. You know, I just. I mostly wrote the book. Yes, these things happen, but this is what I did with it. And yes, it was hard, and yes, I did feel sad, and yes, I did feel angry, but you get over it. So now I seem to be the person that people call me when they're in similar situations. And I'm like, okay, calm down, breathe. And when I went through it, by the way, I got a call from Marcia Kilgore, you know, who's now with PewDiePie, and she said, are you okay? And I said, no. And we talked about it, and she talked about her experience, and she goes, listen, you gotta do this again. And you come here and I'll bring you to all my labs.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

I mean, that's, you know, a competitor, whatever. And I'll never forget it. She was so kind.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I think that kind of. Yeah. Speaks to this new era that we are in where founders are supporting founders. And I will just say, I noticed that you're very active on social. You're the first person to comment something positive on another makeup artist's post, whether it's hung launching his line.

[Bobbi Brown]

I'm so excited. I don't know him, I've met him. But I'm like, congratulations, it looks great.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Or even when Jada from Amikole, I saw you posted something on her page.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I was like, oh, no. I was on the phone with her talking about that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Amazing.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And by the way, you know, recently Mally called me.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, amazing.

[Bobbi Brown]

And Mally left her company.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I'm excited for Mally because, you know, she's gonna do great things.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. You're mentoring now in a new way. Second acts of sorts, which is incredible. Like, very, very powerful.

[Jill Dunn]

And again, I think the shift that's happened over the years is like that, you know, the idea that there is enough. There's enough for everyone. It's not the way it was before where it was like, it's an either or, guys. I mean, we cherry pick all the time in our beauty routines. And I kind of feel like the way it is now, it's almost like fashion designers, right? It's like, just because I like Chanel doesn't mean I can't wear Dior.

[Bobbi Brown]

You know what I mean? 100%.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's kind of like that.

[Bobbi Brown]

And I have enough. Comfortable. Is there a word called comfortability or did I just make that up? I have enough of that. That I'm comfortable with the products I'm making, that I think they're great, and if people like someone else's better, that's okay. There's enough people to like what I do.

[Jill Dunn]

Let's talk about Jones Road. You debuted your second makeup brand on the exact day that your 25 year non compete with Estee Lauder expired. That was October in 2020. So for anyone who doesn't know Jones Road beauty, what's your elevator pitch? Let's do the proper introduction.

[Bobbi Brown]

Jones Road is a clean brand that empowers women to look like themselves, but better with products that have multi uses, that give you everything you need in a product, whether it's staying power glow. It's there, but it's simple. And you don't need to be a makeup artist to wear Jones Road.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Okay.

[Bobbi Brown]

How was that?

[Carlene Higgins]

30 seconds. Relaxed. Perfect. That was perfect.

[Bobbi Brown]

Write that down in case I.

[Jill Dunn]

Somebody hit that button.

[Carlene Higgins]

Talk to us about the hero product in your line and the secret to using it well. So if you want to.

[Jill Dunn]

I feel like the secret. This product has been misunderstood at times. Right.

[Bobbi Brown]

You know what?

[Jill Dunn]

Walk us through.

[Bobbi Brown]

It's by far. It's our number one product. It does incredibly well. You know what? The foundation, by the way, does really close. But this one, let's see. We've got Magic Hour, and we've got Dusty Rose. So what this product does, and it comes like this. And what it does is it tints the skin. It is a skincare moisturizer. It can add luminosity. If it's one of the. You know, the luminosity color ones, like Magic Hour, it also could be used as a blush, a brighter one, like flushed. And you could use it by itself. You could use it over makeup. If you have oily skin, you could use it over powder. And the way to use it is. And we discovered this after we launched it, because people would say, oh, there's no payoff. No, there's no payoff. You break the seal and I mean, just like this. And it activates the color kind of.

[Jill Dunn]

Like creme brulee a little bit.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And then you take it. And then you take your fingers, the way I use it. Rub the fingers together, pat it on. And then I take the excess and I put it on my neck lightly, everywhere. But most of it goes here. And then you could use your hands for those flyaways that I always have. You could use it on your lips. You could use it on your body. So if there's nothing else on your face, you could use it. You can also then add, like, another layer. So this is Magic Hour, which is my favorite. Luminous. That just goes on here.

[Jill Dunn]

Little highlighter on the highways of the cheeks.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And that's how you use it. Beautiful.

[Jill Dunn]

Amazing. And it's so easy to carry around because it's like a balmy.

[Bobbi Brown]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

For people who can't see, it's kind of like a balm texture.

[Carlene Higgins]

So what was your first impression of it when you. When you got it in your hands? Like, how did you know it was gonna be, like, the hero?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, I didn't know. And actually, when it arrived in the mail, I was. Happened to be in the office that day. It was during the pandemic, but we must have had vaccines. Cause we were working Together. And I was expecting something else because we wrote a brief to this company and I expected something different. And when I got it, I'm like, this isn't what I asked for. But then I dug my fingers in it because I'm a curious person. And then I put it on and I looked in the mirror. I'm like, oh, my God, this is a miracle.

[Jill Dunn]

And there came the name.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And what about the foundation? Did you say what the.

[Bobbi Brown]

I did when I tried. What the foundation on my face. I said, what the.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, you can curse.

[Bobbi Brown]

I do have a necklace that says that I tucked away, but I'll just pull it out. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Put it out. Hell yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. I was on npr, so I had.

[Jill Dunn]

To put it away so that the. What? The foundation is also in kind of.

[Bobbi Brown]

Like a tub, right? It's in a tub. And I mean, it's the first thing I put on my face today after sunscreen. And, you know, it just gives you better looking skin.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. So it's different than something that you would pump out of a.

[Bobbi Brown]

Out of a tube.

[Jill Dunn]

Maybe you could talk about the texture in that.

[Bobbi Brown]

We tried it in a pump and I didn't like it. It took away the magic. So honestly, it's just when you want even skin, but you don't want to look like you're wearing makeup. I put this on and I don't need a powder with it because I have very dry skin. But if you have oily skin, you just put a little powder on the parts you don't want. Luminosity.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Using your fingers, what's your technique?

[Bobbi Brown]

I use my fingers for everything, but we have a skin brush that people use for it. So it really depends on the person.

[Carlene Higgins]

We had somebody ask us in our chat room about if you wear moisturizer with it or not.

[Bobbi Brown]

It depends how dry your skin is. It is so emollient that you don't need moisturizer with it. And I also could put moisturizer on top of it if I ever put it on and say I need a little bit more moisture.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, interesting.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. That's probably the biggest difference is it is very emollient.

[Bobbi Brown]

It is.

[Jill Dunn]

Which is why it's in a tub. Right.

[Bobbi Brown]

And we had to work really hard on the formula so that the emollients see, doesn't kind of seep into the product because, you know, you don't want to have like an oil come up and separation. So we worked really hard on it.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do you feel like formulation is still fun for you?

[Bobbi Brown]

Oh, totally fun. It's the most fun. I don't know if that's more fun or. Our photo shoots.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

I mean our photo shoots. So my husband and I have a photo and TV studio in Montclair called 18 Label. There's an Instagram for that, but I don't run that one, thank God. So we do our shoots there and we stopped using stylus because, you know, beauty, you don't need it so much. And we have a wardrobe closet, so we have a beautiful, like room that has everything. And we get, you know, we borrow things from designers or borrow things or buy things on Zara, you know, to kind of put our shoots every two months. And a lot of the models are on rotation. They're just people I've found or found on the street. You know, we hire a couple professional ones and it's the same team, same photographer, same hairdresser, same nail person. And we just have a ball.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Bobbi Brown]

It's really fun.

[Carlene Higgins]

Very creative.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yes. And I style them and you know, sometimes I fight with my daughter in law cause I like big earrings, she likes teeny earrings, you know, but you know, I'm like, you can always retouch them. We'll do them both ways.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's, I love that you're still as passionate about that part of it.

[Bobbi Brown]

It's, it's a creative outlet. Like, I'm not a painter.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

But it's my creativity. And I also edit the pictures. You know, I do the first and the second edit. I choose the hero shot. So, you know, I mean, I was the CCO of Bobby Brown, chief creative officer.

[Carlene Higgins]

So I mean, it's amazing to me how the scrappiness that got you into this industry at the beginning is still very prevalent. And you know, you're grabbing models, like you said, off the street, you're hiring and you're ubering here. You don't have a black car, like all of these things.

[Bobbi Brown]

I wish I had a black car.

[Carlene Higgins]

We do too.

[Bobbi Brown]

Slept in our bags. But no, we. We ubered.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. I love that spirit.

[Bobbi Brown]

It's just kind of who I am. I mean, even we opened our first store, you know, the first Jones Road store, because my husband had a building and he said, I have a space. Do you want a store? I said, yeah. So we went in there and he's like, all right, where do you want the counter? How do you want this? And I brought my creative director who at the time was 24 years old, and she's like, so we built it and then I said, uh, oh, we don't have anything on the walls. And we were opening in a week. Like, we didn't even think about it. So I said to Aaron, go print out all of these great photos that we've done and get the Jones Road tape. And we taped it up, and it looks so cool. It's still our style. And now we have 10 stores. The only difference is now we paint the walls magnets, and they're magnetized because then they don't curl up at the corners. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Smart. You're giving me lessons all along here, which is just like, don't overthink it.

[Bobbi Brown]

Don't overthink it. Just do it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Just do it.

[Bobbi Brown]

And if it doesn't work, do it differently.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, exactly.

[Carlene Higgins]

The pivot.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, exactly.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

The power of the pivot. I wanted to ask you about the stores because when you first started launching them, I was a little surprised because it seems like an expensive proposition. And retail was having trouble at the time, and everything was kind of going digital. So why did you decide that stores were part of your DNA?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, we didn't decide. We just did it. So my husband, you know, we opened the first one, and women were lined up outside. You know, people came from all over, you know, from Germany, from. And they would. It was like Mecca, them going. Because, you know, they saw the things online, they ordered some things, and then we're like, wow, that's cool. We should have one in the city. Okay, well. And guess what? Every store is profitable. Wow. Every single store is profitable. Because why do something if it's not profitable? Yeah, it's like, you know, but right now we have 10 stores, right? 10 stores, and we're gonna probably open another four to six, you know, this year. And it's been really great. People love to go in. And we've trained every artist. Now we've got to just enforce it. But I've trained every artist. I worked one day in the store, and my head was gonna blow up. Do you remember what product to tell someone? But then I devised this pad of paper, and when I put all the products down and people could take a pen and just go these colors instead of thinking of the names and writing them down. So I hacked that, too. So hopefully everyone that goes in a store then will have their sheet of what colors were recommended, so they could.

[Jill Dunn]

That's so smart.

[Bobbi Brown]

Order.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's brilliant.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Any Sephora in your future?

[Bobbi Brown]

No. We have one retail account in the world, and that's Liberty in London. And we have no plans to do anything else.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I'm sure they're calling.

[Bobbi Brown]

I have turned all of them down because right now our business is growing and 90% of our revenue comes from D2C.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

So stores are 10%. Our head of retail thinks she can get the stores to 20%.

[Jill Dunn]

Incredible. Wow.

[Carlene Higgins]

By the way, everyone, Bobby works with her family, and her son happens to be. I kind of hate LinkedIn, but he's the only good person on LinkedIn. He seems to be really incredible. He's incredible at the marketing.

[Bobbi Brown]

He's phenomenal. First of all, my son, who was, you know, captain of the golf team, he was all about sports. He went to college to play golf. He became a strength and conditioning coach. Very. Anything he does, he puts his mind to it. He was the best strength and conditioning coach. And then him and his then girlfriend at the time, now wife, took this mastermind courses. I used to tell them they were in a cult. They would go to these courses a couple times a year with the same people. And when he came out, he. He started doing growth, like digital growth. He started a freelance for us, and he just literally quadrupled the business.

[Jill Dunn]

Wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

And then he became the cmo, and then he became the CEO.

[Jill Dunn]

Wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

And it's quite something to watch the smartest guy in the room be your son.

[Jill Dunn]

That's amazing.

[Carlene Higgins]

So who's the real boss? You were.

[Bobbi Brown]

Him. That is a good question. And if he was here, he would laugh and I would laugh, and. And, you know, it's really. We've worked really hard on our relationship, our work relationship. In the beginning, on Saturday morning, we would talk on the phone, and he would quit every Saturday morning. And I just let him talk. Let him talk. And I'm like, no, Cody, I need you. No, Cody. And so we've learned how to communicate. I know that he gets upset with me when I just say what. What's on my mind without thinking how I'm gonna say it. So I've had to calm down a bit and figure out how to communicate with him. And we have a deal. I'm not allowed to say to him, you don't have the experience. And he's not allowed to say to me, mom, they don't do it like that anymore. So those are our two things.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Good.

[Carlene Higgins]

Boundaries.

[Bobbi Brown]

They're totally hot buttons.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's great.

[Jill Dunn]

We need to ask about what's coming up next with Jones Road, because, again, for the uninitiated, in 1991, you created 10 Bobbi Brown Essentials, the wardrobe of.

[Bobbi Brown]

Of lipsticks they were named of what the colors look like.

[Carlene Higgins]

I see they were as exciting as.

[Bobbi Brown]

Brown and beige and pink and orange. I mean, who gets a lipstick orange and calls it orange?

[Carlene Higgins]

Right?

[Bobbi Brown]

My mother, I think, was the only one that really liked it.

[Carlene Higgins]

But anyways, for some reason, I thought the ruby was like a sheer red inspired by Carolyn Bassett, but maybe that's. I don't know.

[Bobbi Brown]

No, no, no, that is. That is true. Yeah, that is true. That's true. But they were named what the colors look like. That was always my thing.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, well, very practical names. So this month, we're very excited that you're introducing the Jones Road Classic Lip. Tell us about these.

[Bobbi Brown]

There's 12 colors based on our lip pencil formula and our lip pencil colors. And I also, in my head, knew that I'd be telling the story of launching the first lipsticks, and people would, you know, kind of compare. Yeah, they're different. They're a modern version of the classics, which is why we call them the classics.

[Jill Dunn]

Right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Maybe.

[Jill Dunn]

Let's compare.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Can you pick one up? Jason, tell us your fave.

[Bobbi Brown]

This is not the packaging, so I.

[Jill Dunn]

Have to go look behind the scenes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Everyone, last samples, our favorites.

[Bobbi Brown]

This is nude pink, which is not my color. It's your color, so try this.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. I'm gonna try it on my hand first.

[Bobbi Brown]

This one is gorgeous rosewood, which was a little small. Yeah, this is it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Swatching.

[Jill Dunn]

Beautiful. This is what it would look.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, that will look good on your Carlene. Nice.

[Jill Dunn]

It would. It actually kind of reminds me of a Mac one I used to wear.

[Bobbi Brown]

Put it on your bottom. Oh, can I. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'll leave these with you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Live swatching.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. And just. Okay. Smack your lips and tell me what it feels like. Well, you have a lipstick on also.

[Jill Dunn]

I do. It feels very creamy, and it's comfortable.

[Bobbi Brown]

It's comfortable. Yeah, it's very. Well, first of all, I don't look in red, so I'm not trying. But there is a beautiful red. And they're full pigment.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

Not sure, but they are. It's the weirdest thing. They're full pigment. When you put them on, they're not dense, and they stay on your lips, but they're not dry. I'm. I'm excited about them.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Very cool. And I think it's very apropos that you're going back to sort of.

[Jill Dunn]

I love this color.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's, you know, an essential. But they're not Bobby Brown essentials. They're Jones Road essentials.

[Jill Dunn]

This is nude Pink.

[Carlene Higgins]

Is that what you.

[Bobbi Brown]

This is nude rose, and I'm tawny nude.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

I love. That's very 90s.

[Jill Dunn]

We've all got our nudes. Everyone upset?

[Carlene Higgins]

Best.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. You're a makeup artist, after all, so we need to get a few makeup tips from you. Sarah from our Instagram wants to know tips for covering dark circles without looking cakey.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. Well, that is a challenge, but I think I have figured it out. And I won't tell you about the two new concealers that'll be coming out that full coverage concealers that don't look cakey. That's, you know, And I have very dry under eye area.

[Carlene Higgins]

Are we talking 2026 here?

[Bobbi Brown]

We're talking 2026.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Bobbi Brown]

Any in 2020? No. Nothing in 2025. 2026. Yeah. And there's one in 2027, which I'm fighting them to do it in 2026.

[Jill Dunn]

Wow.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah. Because we have so many things on our pipeline, but you start with a touch of eye cream and then use our face pencils. Now, we have face pencils that you can use to cover any redness, any blemish. You could use them all over your face, but you don't need to. They are made with a clear base, so when you put the pigment in them, they don't get all, like, gray and ashy. So when you cover a blemish, you don't see it when you turn your head to the side, and it's the same thing underneath. If you have dark circles, choose a neutralizer color first. Either one that's pinky or peachy. I go pinky peach. I'm kind of in the middle. You guys would be more pinky. Deeper skin would be more peach. And then you put one on top of it that's one shade lighter than your foundation. And those two things together and any setting at all, you can set with powder. I don't, because I don't need it. But our face powders are like Japanese finely milled powders that are tinted so it doesn't get crack or get in the lines. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And what's your favorite moisturizer for skin prep right now?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, I've been putting on first thing in the morning is right out of the tube is our sunscreen.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Bobbi Brown]

Which kind of has a weirdly blurring effect. I'm not the kind of marketer or company that says the word blurring, but it kind of just makes things look a little better. And then I'll put the foundation on top or the miracle balm, depending If I want foundation or not.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Bobbi Brown]

And when my skin is dry, most of the time, I use the light moisture cream. When it's really dry in the winter, we have something called miracle cream, which is. You have to break the seal. It's cream, and it's really nice.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, I need to try that. Yeah, I love that. What's one thing that nobody knows about you?

[Bobbi Brown]

You really think there's something left? Everyone knows I danced on stage with Flo Rida and salt and pepper. I don't know. Something that people don't know about me that I get up in the morning, and many mornings I just open up a drawer and organize it because it makes me feel in control.

[Jill Dunn]

Good one.

[Carlene Higgins]

That actually was one of my other questions for you, which was, what does your makeup drawer vanity look like? Is it organized chaos or is it everything has a place?

[Bobbi Brown]

Well, right now, everything has a place because I hired someone in my town who's an organizer. Oh, it was the greatest thing. I left with everything messy, and I came home, it all organized. My problem is I'm trying to figure out what to do with. I have so much gently used makeup that are my colors that I don't, you know, because every time I forget something, I grab it, and all of a sudden I've got like 16, you know, smoky brown eyeshadows. So I'm trying to figure out who can I donate gently used makeup to.

[Jill Dunn]

My friend taught me this. So she takes my old used makeup products. She got her husband to drive them to a morgue, to a.

[Carlene Higgins]

What do you call it?

[Jill Dunn]

A mortician.

[Bobbi Brown]

Yeah, right.

[Jill Dunn]

And she donated them.

[Bobbi Brown]

And they want them. Well, I bet they want mine because they're natural looking. Actually, I've never told anyone this, but a woman came up to me at the Jones Road store in Chicago, and she was a mortician. She goes, I have to tell you, every single person gets miracle ball.

[Carlene Higgins]

There you go.

[Bobbi Brown]

I said, I don't think I'm gonna tell people that, but I just did.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Bobbi Brown]

What a good idea.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's actually brilliant.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, thank you so much for being on the pod today. We learned so much. The time has flown by, and we will have you again.

[Bobbi Brown]

A thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.

[Jill Dunn]

Thank you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thank you so much.

[Jill Dunn]

Thanks for listening. You can find find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our [e-mail].

[Carlene Higgins]

While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a.

[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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[Jill Dunn]

See you. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.