Breaking History: Trump’s Populism Isn’t a Sideshow. It’s as American as Apple Pie
Podcast Information:
- Title: Breaking History
- Host: Eli Lake, The Free Press
- Episode: Trump’s Populism Isn’t a Sideshow. It’s as American as Apple Pie.
- Release Date: January 22, 2025
Introduction: The Rise of Modern Populism
Eli Lake opens the episode by contextualizing Donald Trump's presidency within the broader narrative of American populism. He emphasizes that while Trump's political maneuvers may appear unprecedented, the underlying populist sentiments he embodies have deep roots in American history, echoing sentiments that have surfaced periodically since the nation's founding.
Notable Quote:
"Populism is as American as baseball and apple pie. We will never escape it."
— Eli Lake [02:21]
Defining Populism: Beyond Ideologies
Lake delineates populism not as a fixed ideology but as a pervasive "mood" that resurges when ordinary people rally against established elites. This section explores the essence of populism as a force that pits the "people" against the "powerful," illustrating its flexibility across the political spectrum.
Notable Quote:
"Populism pints the people against the powerful, the best of us against the rest of us."
— Eli Lake [03:00]
Historical Parallels: Donald Trump and Andrew Jackson
A significant portion of the episode draws parallels between Donald Trump and Andrew Jackson, the seventh President of the United States. Lake highlights the similarities in their rise as populist leaders who positioned themselves against entrenched political establishments.
Key Similarities:
- Election Controversies: Both leaders claimed their elections were stolen ([01:38] Trump and [26:59] Jackson).
- Anti-Establishment Rhetoric: They portrayed themselves as outsiders challenging the corrupt elite.
- Survival of Assassination Attempts: Both Jackson and Trump survived attempts on their lives ([06:41] Jackson and [22:10] Trump).
Notable Quotes:
"Donald Trump's extraordinary comeback represents a return to the politics of populism."
— Eli Lake [03:40]
"Jackson was an American hero... Does it sound familiar?"
— Donald Trump [14:55]
Andrew Jackson: The Archetypal Populist
Lake delves into Andrew Jackson's presidency, painting him as the quintessential populist leader. He discusses Jackson's battles against the Second National Bank, his defiance of the Supreme Court in the Cherokee Nation case, and his aggressive reshaping of the federal government by dismissing civil servants.
Key Events:
- Veto of the National Bank: Jackson's opposition to the Second National Bank mirrored Trump's distrust of financial elites ([12:10] Trump and [26:59] Jackson).
- Supreme Court Defiance: Ignoring the Court's ruling on Cherokee removal, Jackson asserted executive authority ([27:05] Levin).
Notable Quote:
"Jackson attacked institutions, he battled with the Supreme Court, he represented average Joes against the elites."
— Eli Lake [33:53]
Expert Insights: Analyzing Populism’s Impact
The episode features insights from historians and political analysts who dissect the implications of populist movements in American politics.
Speakers:
-
Steve Bannon: Discusses the inherent challenges populists face from established institutions ([04:42], [05:07], [25:15]).
Notable Quote:
"Populists can emerge on the left. After all, what is Bernie Sanders if not a populist?"
— Steve Bannon [04:42] -
David Brown: Author of The Defiant Life of Andrew Jackson, contrasts Jackson's and Trump's backgrounds and political philosophies ([15:20], [20:01]).
Notable Quote:
"Jackson did what he did because that's how people in the west lived."
— David Brown [20:09] -
Yuval Levin: Explores how populism influences and is absorbed by major political parties ([26:59], [32:27]).
Notable Quote:
"Populism arises as a challenge to the parties, and then the parties respond to that challenge by grasping something about what the public wants."
— Yuval Levin [32:27] -
Michael Kazin: Highlights the dangers of populism being co-opted by authoritarians ([31:55], [31:51]).
Notable Quote:
"Populism can be used by authoritarians... to evoke their, quote, people against an elite."
— Michael Kazin [31:55]
The Mechanics of Populist Leadership
Lake examines the strategies employed by populist leaders to dismantle established power structures, drawing from both Jackson's and Trump's presidencies.
Examples:
- Government Restructuring: Jackson's dismissal of 919 civil servants and Trump's push to reissue executive orders to remove "rogue bureaucrats" ([23:15], [25:15]).
- Battle Against Institutions: Both leaders targeted institutions like the judiciary and media, challenging their authority and legitimacy ([25:54], [33:53]).
Notable Quote:
"Populism's restrictions is always the ruling class or the established order. They just don't. They're not going to give it up."
— Steve Bannon [25:27]
Legacy and Consequences of Populism
The discussion turns to the long-term effects of populist leadership on American democracy. Lake underscores the dual-edged nature of populism—while it serves as a corrective force against entrenched elites, it also harbors the potential to erode institutional checks and balances.
Key Points:
- Constitutional Strains: Both Jackson and Trump pushed the limits of presidential power, posing threats to constitutional norms ([26:59], [27:14]).
- Institutional Integration: Levin and Kazin suggest that while populism can lead to significant political shifts, major parties often absorb and neutralize its core energies over time ([32:27], [31:55]).
Notable Quote:
"Populism can be necessary by keeping the parties that actually know how to govern in touch with the people."
— Yuval Levin [32:27]
Conclusion: The Enduring Role of Populism in American Politics
Eli Lake wraps up the episode by reflecting on the cyclical nature of populism in the United States. He posits that populist movements, exemplified by figures like Andrew Jackson and Donald Trump, act as "escape valves" for public frustration, thereby contributing to the resilience and continuity of the American political system.
Final Thoughts:
- Historical Continuity: Populism is a recurring element that both challenges and strengthens American democracy.
- Future Implications: With Trump entering a second term, Lake invites listeners to ponder the future trajectory of populist influence in shaping national policies and institutional integrity.
Notable Quote:
"Our republic has endured because it can accommodate movements and leaders that seek to overturn elites."
— Eli Lake [33:53]
Key Takeaways:
- Populism is deeply ingrained in American political culture, resurfacing in various forms throughout history.
- Donald Trump’s leadership style and rhetoric bear striking similarities to Andrew Jackson’s populist approach.
- While populism can invigorate democratic participation and challenge corrupt elites, it also poses risks to institutional stability and constitutional governance.
- The interaction between populist movements and established political parties often determines the long-term impact on the political landscape.
For Further Listening: Stay informed and explore more historical analyses by tuning into future episodes of Breaking History from The Free Press. Visit thefp.com for more insights and discussions.