Podcast Summary
Breaking it Down – A Multiple Sclerosis Podcast
Episode: MS and Relationships: Balancing Love and Care
Date: June 12, 2025
Hosts: Helena and Nick
Guests: Dr. Ashley Brown (Psychotherapist & MS intimacy specialist), Sophie & Delvin (MS patient and partner)
Episode Overview
This episode offers an honest, emotional deep-dive into how multiple sclerosis (MS) impacts relationships and intimacy. Through expert advice and heartfelt, real-life experiences, the hosts and guests explore the shifting roles, emotional hurdles, caring responsibilities, and sustaining closeness when one partner lives with MS. The episode aims to break taboos, normalize tough conversations, and offer practical tips on communication, boundaries, and mental health for couples navigating these challenges.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Setting the Scene: Love, Intimacy, and Care with MS
- Relationships are often transformed when one partner has MS.
- Language around “carer” is debated: some reject the term while others embrace it.
- Intimacies and roles shift: Partners may find themselves negotiating new roles as carers, patients, and lovers.
(Nick, 00:33)
2. Sophie & Delvin: A Journey through MS as a Couple
Introducing Themselves and the Diagnosis
- Sophie diagnosed with MS in 2016, symptoms from 2014.
- Delvin became both a partner and a practical carer, adjusting to new domestic and emotional responsibilities.
Early Challenges and Role Shifts
- Delvin found the transition to caregiving difficult:
"I had to sort of, in a weird sense grow up in the relationship, sort of mature quicker than maybe what I was ready to when she was... Got a diagnosis."
(Delvin, 04:24) - Sophie’s independence was challenged, triggering guilt and fear:
“There was this awful feeling of like, this is not what he signed up for... I had to give up my control of things, which was really difficult for me. But then, always that feeling in the back of my head that I’m a burden.”
(Sophie, 06:05)
Emotional Impact & Communication Barriers
- Both describe mutual feelings of ‘not being understood’ due to different experiential realities.
- Communication initially suffered, but both have grown to accept that "we can't be in each other's shoes," and work towards "meeting in the middle" with understanding.
(Sophie, 09:21; Delvin, 11:08)
Mental Health and Self-Perception
- Sophie’s diagnosis heightened her health anxiety and depression; Delvin struggled with the inability to “fix” things:
“If you could, you'd get a magic wand and fix it all…”
(Sophie, 12:25; Delvin, 12:25) - Both partners described feeling ‘useless’ or like a ‘burden’ at times.
Intimacy and Connection
- Physical and emotional intimacy are impacted by MS symptoms, fatigue, and the demands of family life.
- Finding new forms of closeness outside traditional intimacy is vital:
“It’s about finding ways to keep connected… not your regular intimacy, but...ground[ing] each other and support[ing] each other.”
(Sophie, 13:31) - Honesty and patience are crucial.
Overcoming Isolation & Affirmation
- Sophie: “It’s a really lonely place... I feel like I’m holding him back… What if he could do great things in his life, but now, or opportunities missed out on because he’s got to think, ‘if I’m not around, who’s helping Sophie?’”
(Sophie, 16:50) - Delvin’s perspective: “It made no difference...was always going to get married, was always going to have a family. I don’t feel that way [about leaving]...I just take it in my stride and we deal with whatever problems MS can cause.”
(Delvin, 19:44)
Navigating Daily Care
- Delvin adapted his work schedule to help with personal care tasks (e.g., showering, dressing, wheelchair use), and Sophie describes the hit to her self-esteem and initial pride at needing such support.
“I used to be this uber-independent person...it’s quite a hit to your self-esteem to go from that to someone helping you wash your hair or shave your legs.”
(Sophie, 26:44)
Communicating Openly: “Open Talk Sessions”
- Over time, Sophie and Delvin developed their own method—formally setting aside time to ‘just talk’ without interruption or expectation of response.
“If one of us has something on our minds...we call an ‘open talk session.’...When he talks, I don't listen to respond; I just listen.”
(Sophie, 31:07) - These sessions create a "safe place" for vulnerability.
Advice to Others in a Similar Situation
- Live day by day; don’t overthink the future.
“Thinking too far ahead is just suffocation.” (Sophie, 43:05)
- Lower expectations, show patience, find balance between separate and shared interests, and recommit to each other:
“Sometimes you have to strip back to basics, like what connected you in the first place…”
(Sophie, 46:50)
3. Expert Insights with Dr. Ashley Brown
Dr. Brown’s Background
- Clinical psychologist with expertise in trauma, sex, and relationship therapy, specializing in people with MS.
Relationship Evolution
- MS disrupts predictable ‘life scripts’ (dating, marriage, children, etc.).
- Both patients and partners grieve their old roles and expectations.
On Intimacy: Sex, Non-Sexual Intimacy & Avoidance
- MS symptoms, treatments, and care roles can medicalize formerly sexual interactions.
“Partners often tell me they’re afraid of hurting their partner… when you start taking on more caring roles, it can reinforce that fear…”
(Ashley, 61:05) - Avoidance of intimacy often spirals: withdrawing from sex can lead to withdrawal from all physical closeness, increasing emotional distance.
Breaking the Avoidance Cycle
- Solve mechanical issues (e.g., lubricants, aids) early.
- Prioritize regular, vulnerable communication; schedule relationship check-ins and explicit time for intimacy (sexual or not).
“People that pencil in sex or pencil in intimacy, tend to have overall better relationship satisfaction…”
(Ashley, 62:19) - Communicate appreciatively—affirm what feels good vs. only correcting what doesn’t.
Partners’ Perspectives & Emotional Labor
- Partners may feel “they can’t say anything at all” about their own loss, burnout, or needs for respite because they don’t want to appear selfish.
“When you let really small things build up, it turns into this bucket of resentment…”
(Ashley, 68:33) - Both partners’ emotional needs must be seen as equally valid for a relationship to thrive.
Navigating Control, Boundaries & Burnout
- Sometimes care partners try to “fix” their loved ones, which can be experienced as controlling.
“You have to love someone for who they are now, not who you want them to be…”
(Ashley, 73:08) - Both sides must develop radical acceptance, compassion, and the ability to ask for help—be it for respite, space, or emotional support.
Playful Strategies & Practical Tools
- Use humor and creativity: examples included ‘taking it to HR’ (formally filing a complaint/request in jest), or conflict resolution ‘back to back’ for less confrontational conversations. [Ashley, 76:32; 79:05]
- Regular relationship check-ins prevent issues from festering.
Professional Help: Psychosexual Therapy
- Available via NHS sexual health services; helps with both emotional and practical sides of intimacy.
- Private and remote/virtual options exist.
On Language: “Carer” vs. “Partner”
- Most prefer being known as “partner with caring responsibilities” vs. “carer,” as the latter can feel like a job title and overshadow the mutual aspects of the relationship.
“I find that most partners don’t like being called carers...They want to be seen as someone who is part of their partner’s life, but it is not the only thing they do.”
(Ashley, 84:15)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- Sophie:
"If I think too far ahead or focus on the future, it literally is suffocating. So I learned to take things day by day." (06:05)
- Delvin:
“It made no difference to me whether she had MS or not… we deal with whatever problems MS can cause. We will get through it.” (19:44)
- Sophie:
“Sometimes you have to strip back to basics, like what connected you in the first place...” (46:50)
- Dr. Ashley Brown:
“Avoidance is the number one big bad wolf in psychology.” (61:06) “You have to love somebody for who they are now, not who they might be in the future.” (73:08) “Most partners don’t like being called carers... They want to be seen as someone who’s part of their partner’s overall life.” (84:15)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:33 — Introduction: Theme and guests
- 03:10–48:59 — Sophie & Delvin’s story (roles, challenges, intimacy, mental health, practical advice)
- 51:46–88:06 — Dr. Ashley Brown interview (relationship evolution, intimacy, communication, terminology, therapy)
- 90:00–92:37 — Final reflections and resources
Practical Takeaways
- Don’t overthink the distant future—focus on ‘one day at a time.’
- Communicate openly and intentionally—try scheduled ‘open talk sessions’ or weekly check-ins.
- Be patient, empathetic, and willing to adapt roles.
- Intimacy isn’t only sexual—foster non-sexual closeness, too.
- Address the practical (mechanical) barriers early (aids, schedules).
- Caring partners also need support, respite, and validation.
- Consider creative strategies to approach tough topics or boundaries (e.g., “take it to HR,” humor).
- Seek professional help if needed—psychosexual therapy can be valuable.
- Use language and identities that suit you as a couple; don’t let “carer” define the relationship.
Final Thoughts
This episode offers an unfiltered look at the emotional landscape of loving and caring for someone with MS. Through honest dialogue and expert insight, listeners are invited to reframe expectations, recommit to communication, and embrace a more compassionate, adaptive partnership—one grounded not in perfection, but in patience, openness, and shared commitment.