← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
10/3/25: Flotilla SEIZED, Pete Oven Baby LIES, ICE Criminal Mayhem
00:58:55
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
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Krystal Ball
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- [00:31]
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- [00:33]
Krystal Ball
Substitute for medical advice. See website for more hi there, this.
- [00:36]
Josh Clark
Is Josh Clark from the Stuff youf Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff youf Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff you should know true crime Playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:05]
Ryan Grim
Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast.
- [01:09]
Krystal Ball
Recently I had a conversation with the one and only Madonna when I was.
- [01:14]
Saagar Enjeti
Broke and I had no friends, nowhere to live.
- [01:16]
Krystal Ball
I was held up at gunpoint, I was robbed. All these horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was. So I'm not going back.
- [01:29]
Ryan Grim
Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:35]
Saagar Enjeti
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [01:37]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of the show.
- [01:44]
Saagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:50]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full show unedited ad, free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:01]
Saagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com Morning everybody.
- [02:07]
Krystal Ball
Happy Friday. How's everybody doing? Great. Excellent. Got a bunch of stuff to get to. Ryan's gonna give us A flotilla update. We've got some Mayor Pete weighing in on Israel and Gaza spreading misinformation. We've got the most horrific ice raid and trampling of everybody's rights that I can imagine. We got shutdown updates. We got Riyadh upd. Got all kinds of stuff to get to this morning. Right, Griffin?
- [02:31]
Griffin Davis
And most importantly, Taylor Swift's new album. You know, potentially the, the worst thing we'll have to talk about all day.
- [02:38]
Krystal Ball
And there's a new, new album. Like, like a new, new album.
- [02:42]
Griffin Davis
I didn't even see this apparently came out just. And just in time for my birthday. So we're going to break all that down. We're going to get copyright struck. It'll be great. Emily, are you excited?
- [02:50]
Krystal Ball
I know it's your birthday, Griffin. Happy birthday.
- [02:52]
Saagar Enjeti
I'm excited for his birthday.
- [02:54]
Griffin Davis
That's right. Everyone in the comments, you have to be nice this time. Okay? All right.
- [02:59]
Krystal Ball
Always. Love you, Griffin. You're like fan favorite.
- [03:02]
Griffin Davis
I don't, I don't read them, but they do get sent to me. I read the emails, I don't read the comments. Okay, all right, well, let's get right into it. Let's start with some flotilla updates. Now, the majority of the flotillas have been intercepted on their way into Gaza. And this video was released by Ben Gavir taunting some of the flotilla activists. Let's take a listen.
- [03:30]
Krystal Ball
He's calling them terrorists, in case you didn't get that.
- [03:50]
Griffin Davis
All right, so that's most of it. It goes on from there. And there's other videos of the IDF boarding the ships. And it seems like their new angle is that there was actually. They're showing there's no aid on these ships, actually, and that it was all a PR stun. Ryan, where are we at with all of this and especially with your drop site correspondent, Alex?
- [04:09]
Ryan Grim
Well, he's with everybody else. And as we understand, basically everybody has been moved to a space inside the Kitiat prison, which is down in southern Gaza, notorious as a torture camp. But our understanding is that they're all being held together in a, in a big, in a big space like you, like you saw there. Actually, in the background of that, of that video. We haven't gotten any reports of any significant violence or any, you know, mistreatment other than being illegally taken into custody. They were, they were not in Israeli waters when the Israeli warships, you know, boarded and captured them. The International Court of Justice has an order in place instructing Israel that they are forbidden from blocking humanitarian aid into Gaza. So not only did they not have the authority to board the ship? They were actively flouting the ICJ when they, when they boarded the ship. Israel claims that it was enforcing a legal naval blockade, but that assertion is rejected by the International Court of Justice.
- [05:25]
Krystal Ball
I also want to just sit for a second with Ben, sorry, Ben gvir, having the audacity to call them terrorists when first of all, what are they doing? They're trying to bring in like baby formula to people who are being starved to death. And second of all, he is a literal convicted terrorist. So, you know, talk about projection here. Convicted in Israel of support for terrorism.
- [05:47]
Saagar Enjeti
Right. I was wondering if either of you could address, like I'm seeing a bunch of Israeli propaganda videos after having boarded the ship go viral. I don't know if you guys have seen any of those being like, there was no aid. The ships. These aren't serious people. If you guys have, that's, that's what the Israeli propaganda has been over the last 24 hours.
- [06:05]
Ryan Grim
So the, so Alex had told us that every ship had, you know, significant quantities of particularly baby formula that, because that's, you know, and, and, and other like, you know, peanut butter style nutritional supplements that are, that are helpful to people facing severe malnutrition.
- [06:25]
Krystal Ball
And didn't I see that Israel had deemed peanut butter like a luxury and wasn't allowing that in whatsoever. Which of course is one of the.
- [06:31]
Ryan Grim
Like which is one of the most.
- [06:32]
Krystal Ball
Staples of fighting malnutrition.
- [06:35]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Israel did not post videos of that. I mean, you can certainly find places on the boat that don't have aid in them.
- [06:46]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah. So yeah, soldiers going through the boats and saying there's nothing in here there. It was all for show.
- [06:52]
Ryan Grim
Blah, blah, blah.
- [06:55]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes. This one is the one I'm talking.
- [06:56]
Ryan Grim
About bring into Gaza, which explains one thing to me. I'm sure it explains to you that.
- [07:02]
Saagar Enjeti
When we and multiple other countries offered.
- [07:04]
Krystal Ball
Them to take this aid and bring.
- [07:06]
Ryan Grim
It to the godslands, we could facilitate a safe arrival. They flat out rejected it.
- [07:11]
Griffin Davis
Now Ryan's going on. Yeah, exactly.
- [07:15]
Ryan Grim
And on that, on that point they did say like, okay, we will, we'll take the aid to Ashkenaz, we'll take the aid here and then we'll deliver it. Which is the, just kind of an insult to anybody's intelligence is like, if Israel was facilitating the entry of aid into Gaza, this, this flotilla would not exist.
- [07:36]
Saagar Enjeti
We wouldn't be here.
- [07:37]
Ryan Grim
Like, like if, yeah, if we trusted you to bring in the aid, like it's not for a lack of aid in the ports or on the trucks. Like the ports and the trucks that surround Gaza are filled with aid. It's not that there is a lack of aid.
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Saagar Enjeti
Right. It's not a baby formula shortage.
- [07:54]
Ryan Grim
There's no shortage. The shortage is of a willingness by Israel to allow it to get into Gaza very explicitly tying, feeding and treating the population to the ceasefire that is on the table now. They explicitly include those provisions. So if this soldier has some indication that that's all fake and actually Israel will just let them in, then they should tell the negotiators that because there seems to be some confusion among the negotiators who have made it a central part of the ceasefire offer that we will stop starving you to death if you accept these terms.
- [08:32]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, but again, the drop site correspondent is on one of these boats, right, and says there's aid on the boats.
- [08:37]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, he's, yeah, he, there was, there was, he was. I mean, these are not huge boats, so let's not kid ourselves. It, you know, it would be enough for, to help a couple families. But like, yeah, there, he said there was, there was definitely, you know, as it was packed with as much kind of baby formula as they could take because, you know, they, they thought that with 50 ships there was a chance that some would get through. And so if some got through, they wanted them stacked with formula is to.
- [09:08]
Krystal Ball
Establish a humanitarian corridor. The point is not we have sufficient aid to feed the population. The point is we need a humanitarian, a reliable humanitarian corridor so that aid can be brought in systematically to feed and provide for a population that is being starved and displaced and bombed, etc.
- [09:29]
Griffin Davis
So my question for you guys are you just real quick is like, why aren't more. I haven't seen any prominent Democrats talk about this. Like, I haven't seen AOC and Bernie talk about the flotilla. Like, what is the dangers politically that why so many people are gun shy about these, you know, activists around the world, a lot of them American, you know, being taken by the IDF and humiliated by Ben gvir. Why is no one talking about this?
- [09:57]
Krystal Ball
I mean, I presume the same reason why they're reluctant, you know, across the board. You know, we do have a number of Democrats now who've said it's a genocide. You have the Progressive Caucus that has signed on to the Block Block the Bombs Act. So you have progress in that direction, but you still have this just incredible reluctance and, but, you know, it's especially noteworthy, Griffin, to your point, in the face of Some European countries actually being pressured into acknowledging it, sending their, you know, naval ships to ensure the safety. That sort of pressure. And, you know, you also have some European politicians who are on board, were on board this flotilla, which kind of forced the hand, I think, of some of these European countries as well, when I believe, you know, like in Italy isn't there. Aren't there Italian members of parliament who were on board? And that sort of pressured Meloni to have to step up and do something, even though that was very much against what she, what her politics are and what she wanted to do.
- [10:56]
Ryan Grim
Right, right. And the, you know, the dock workers shut down the Genoa port. The. They had 300,000 people Italians in the street protesting this. In the US there was, you know, this morning there was actually a protest at the Elizabethtown in New Jersey weapons plant, which hopefully I'll have video before we're done this show this morning. But that's. That was, you know, that's dozens that most people should be, should be applauded, but it's not 300,000 people. So, like, people are not out in the streets here. People are not shutting the ports down. And so that changes the political calculation. So Democrats can kind of ignore it and get away with it.
- [11:34]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I was gonna, I was just gonna share this and I want to get Ryan's update on this as well. I saw Jeremy tweeting about this poll of Palestinians in Gaza that found only 8% fully support Trump's plan, 18% reject it, 25% strongly opposed, 41amendments, he says. New York Times interviewed four Palestinians. A Gaza ran this headline. Many Palestinians say Hamas must accept ceasefire plan. You know, at the same time, of course, like, we know the horror in the sense, like, this just has to end at any cost. And I know that was what you were hearing, Ryan, from Palestinians as well. So what's your sense of. Of where any of that is?
- [12:14]
Ryan Grim
Right, that's the balance. Like, pretty much everyone I spoke to had the. Basically the same take, which is, this is a rotten, corrupt bargain, but if it's take or leave it, take it and just. And live another day, that it has to end, that all this just has to stop. And so, yeah, the New York Times framing was a bit like, as if people were excited and grateful for the offer. But I think it's. I think it's separate. I think a better way to understand it is just anything that ends the suffering under any circumstances, on any conditions, any terms. End this. Like, just stop. This is it. This is torture. Like, we're all. We're dying.
- [13:03]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [13:04]
Ryan Grim
So. But is the, do they like the idea of Tony Blair setting up some colonial administration?
- [13:11]
Krystal Ball
Unbelievable.
- [13:12]
Ryan Grim
Funded by, you know, and backed by like Oracle software. No, I don't think you're gonna find anybody who's like, yeah, I'm really looking for. Forward to that. But compared to dying in a famine, sure.
- [13:25]
Krystal Ball
I mean, it seems to me like the deal is crafted to basically snuff out the Palestinian liberation movement, like to end the project completely. Is that their sense? Is that your sense? You know, is that in Jeremy's conversations with Hamas and P officials, that their sense?
- [13:42]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, that's the, that's the idea. Yeah. That. Because if you have this enclave in this kind of dystopian techno lockdown and people are in camps where, you know, they might even not like they might even, you know, let's say they take all their phones and give them new, you know, Oracle devices or whatever that have, you know, only approved apps on them.
- [14:09]
Krystal Ball
They already have control of their phones, forcing them to watch Netanyahu speeches and whatever.
- [14:13]
Ryan Grim
And very, you know, very strictly control movement and more aggressively control in the future, like what gets in and what gets out and then build, try to build a bunch of high rises or something. How they're going to do that is, is going to, is difficult to see because just remove, removing the unexploded ordinance itself is like a 10 year project because of the vast amount of munitions that Israel dropped that haven't exploded. Jesus, you know, Hiroshima. Levels of unexploded ordinance everywhere. And so imagine trying to then dig that out and those unexploded ordnance.
- [14:52]
Saagar Enjeti
Someone's going to make a lot of.
- [14:52]
Ryan Grim
Money to dig in.
- [14:55]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's going to be a boon for some contractor.
- [15:01]
Ryan Grim
Right? Right. And it takes forever.
- [15:04]
Saagar Enjeti
Yep.
- [15:08]
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- [16:08]
Josh Clark
Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff you Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff youf Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff youf Should Know true Crime Playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [16:41]
Krystal Ball
All I know is what I've been told and that to half truth is a whole lie.
- [16:46]
Maggie Freeling
For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.
- [17:02]
Krystal Ball
I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.
- [17:04]
Maggie Freeling
We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.
- [17:13]
Ryan Grim
Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.
- [17:20]
Maggie Freeling
My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.
- [17:30]
Ryan Grim
I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.
- [17:35]
Saagar Enjeti
That y' all said.
- [17:36]
Krystal Ball
They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.
- [17:44]
Maggie Freeling
From Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.
- [17:54]
Ryan Grim
America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.
- [18:03]
Maggie Freeling
Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [18:26]
Griffin Davis
And while we're wondering where the Democrats are in response to this, we've got a clip that Crystal shared with me this morning from Andrew callahan of Channel 5, who got to interview Pete on Israel Palestine. Let's take a listen on where the future of Dem leadership is.
- [18:43]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
Yeah, the word socialism scaring people and.
- [18:44]
Ryan Grim
That sounds like a huge thing is Israel Palestine.
- [18:47]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [18:48]
Ryan Grim
Where do you stand on that stuff?
- [18:49]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
Well, I'm gonna put my coffee down. There's so many things that have to be said, and what I've learned is if you don't say all of them, people think you're abandoning them. So here's some things in no particular.
- [18:59]
Saagar Enjeti
Order he thinks, that's so profound.
- [19:02]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
There are unspeakable or taking place in Gaza. I know that those unspeakable horrors are something that was unleashed by a war that started with unspeakable horrors being perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th.
- [19:16]
Ryan Grim
Well, I mean, that was at the beginning of the conflict, of course.
- [19:19]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
I mean, this goes back to 47, and it goes back before 47, but this is exactly my point. The moment you say anything, but the moment I talk about disgust at babies being put in ovens and people being flayed by Hamas on October 7, somebody says, well, you're not talking about the history of the Nakba and what happened with the displacement of Palestinians. And the moment I express disgust at watching people in Gaza being starved, somebody says, well, you must be excusing what happened with Hamas.
- [19:44]
Krystal Ball
No.
- [19:45]
Ryan Grim
Yeah.
- [19:45]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
Now, there is nothing intrinsically anti Semitic about speaking up for the rights of Palestinians. At the same time, a lot of people I know who lie awake at night worried about their kids going to college or walking the streets, you know, hear expressions of support for Palestinian civilian life and think about the fact that even though nothing about that makes you soft on anti Semitism.
- [20:09]
Ryan Grim
Yeah.
- [20:09]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
The experience has been that those two things, Expressions of support for Palestinian civilian life and expressions of anti Semitism have sometimes traveled together because there is, in fact, an explosion of anti Semitism going on in this country.
- [20:24]
Griffin Davis
So what are we. What are we. What are we to make of that, folks?
- [20:28]
Krystal Ball
I mean, he got filleted for going on with the. The pod save guys and having metaphoric. Metaphorically, yes. Absolutely nothing to say. And clearly he learned nothing from that, because however long that answer went on, he said literally nothing. And his biggest upset is that people are mad at him for trying to. Both sides, for not being willing to take a clear stand. That's. He's like, you know, I don't get it. Why when I say babies are baked in the oven, which is a literal lie, why do people correct me on that? Why do people want me to take a clear moral stand here? I don't get it. Why can't I just bullshit this the way that I do literally everything else? And I just. At this, like, I. I actually am pretty shocked that he did the babies baked in the oven thing because that has been dispelled since, like, one week after October 7th. That was one of the first things we figured out. I mean, those of us who had intellectual. Intellectual capacity knew it was a lie immediately, but that was one of the first things that we found out. Oh, no. This was just utterly and completely made up. And yet here he is, almost two years into a genocide, still repeating atrocity hoaxes. Unbelievable.
- [21:43]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. And talking about, like, flaying people and babies baked in ovens almost two years later. Yeah. It just reflects a real extraordinary lack of not just courage, but any curiosity around the actual event itself. But he does seem to have genuine frustration that his whole thing here doesn't work. This is his thing, and Obama does this, too. But Buttigieg is even much more of an offender where instead of just like.
- [22:20]
Krystal Ball
Temu Obama on this.
- [22:21]
Ryan Grim
Exactly. Like. Exactly. But instead of answering a question.
- [22:27]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
You.
- [22:27]
Ryan Grim
State a bunch of facts, and often you state facts that are somewhat in tension with each other, and it gives an audience a sense that you're being thoughtful. And you hope that in all of that smoke, they don't notice that you actually never answered the question. You just kind of reformulated the question in a series of assertions. And he's very upset that that trick doesn't work here.
- [22:56]
Krystal Ball
And here's the thing.
- [22:57]
Ryan Grim
That frustration is real.
- [22:59]
Krystal Ball
And here's the thing that he doesn't get is, like, liberals used to eat that shit up. Right?
- [23:03]
Ryan Grim
Yeah.
- [23:04]
Krystal Ball
That Obama style. Like, oh, let me demonstrate all the intellect that I have and all the paragraphs, all these facts that I can lay at your feet. Yeah. Oh, he speaks in paragraph. He's so intelligent. No, liberals, including. I'm not just talking about leftists, liberal Democrats. Right. That I've had at gals. They are not. They are not. They want you to give an answer. They want you to be a leader. They want you to have moral clarity. And. Because if you can't say, two years into a genocide, this is a genocide, it's outrageous. It needs to stop. I'm disgusted with myself that I was complicit in it. If you can't say that, how are you going to stand up to Donald Trump? Like, that should be. It should be easy to oppose a genocide. And if you can't do that, how am I going to trust you to fight on any number of other things? So, like, if this man thinks that he has a prayer of being the nominee in 2028, first of all, zero percent of Black people continue to support him. That's number one. Number two, literally is zero percent. Literally zero. Number two, wildly, wildly out of touch with where the Democratic base actually is at this point. They are disgusted with leadership, they are raring for a fight, they are horrified by what we've been involved in in Gaza. And they are looking for people who have the slightest shred of moral integrity to actually be willing to take a stand there rather than low key continuing to smear people who stand up for Palestinian rights as being anti Semites.
- [24:35]
Saagar Enjeti
It's that answer was not the answer of a politician who is in touch with his own party's base. It was the answer of somebody who's vaguely aware of where the polling is and knows that he has to like, try to find a way sound profound. Like that was the, the most ridiculous part of the interview is how he's acting like he is. He's come up with some novel way to communicate about this intractable problem. And it sounds like somebody is vaguely aware of the polling, but also has those donors tripping in his ear. And for Republicans and Democrats, we had a great glimpse of what this actually looks like when the New York Times confirmed gray zone reporting about Turning Point donor Robert Shulman, who is apparently like a father to Charlie Kirk, like a mentor to Charlie Kirk and revok literally millions of dollars and cut himself off from Turning Point usa. Not because Charlie Kirk said anything, but because Charlie hosted Tucker Carlson and Dave Smith at a Turning Point conference recently. That is the magnitude of the pressures. But if Buttigieg can't say, stand up to them, then he should stay the hell off the podcast circuit because it's not going to get any better for him until he is honest.
- [25:43]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, you know, the crazy thing to me is back in the Tea Party era, you had this major upset, like calamitous shocking upset of Dave Brat over Eric Cantor. And most Republicans looked around at that and said, holy shit, this is a different landscape. I better adjust. I better be looking to my right. I better be paying attention to these like, nobody weirdos who are primaring me. Like, I need to get it together. Democrats had that moment. That moment was Zoran Mamdani beating Andrew Cuomo by 12 points. Right. A landslide. Totally reach, reshaping the electorate. Polls were wildly off, coming out of nowhere, destroying this like, legacy political figure. And instead of really taking that in, they have layered themselves with all kinds of cut. Well, it's New York City. Well, I don't know. That doesn't really count. Well, I'm not really paying attention to that race Well, I think it's really because, you know, he's sort of like abundance ish. And that's why people like it. Like, you know, I mean, he's young and handsome, right? He, he understands social media. That's what it really is, is his, his mom's a film director, so he's got these like, great videos. Maybe if I just make some like quick cut, vertical, vertical recorded videos, maybe I too can capture this magic. Like they either dismiss it entirely or they come up with the dumbest possible reasons why they think he won so that they can avoid learning the very clear lessons that they're. That the message that was sent to them through that election. And so I think you are going to have some Democrats who are really caught, caught unawares by primary challengers, by major figures who are taken out. I don't know who or what that's going to be, but I think we're going to be in, they are going to be in for some major surprises this year because they have done everything they possibly can to avoid learning the lessons that are transparently in front of them right now.
- [27:40]
Saagar Enjeti
This is one of my favorite polls. You just see favorability for the Democratic Party is this Gallup in July among Democrats is really right now similar to the levels that it was among Republicans in the Tea Party years. So it's not even just like these obvious examples of Mamdani, Bernie almost beating Hillary and almost beating Biden and AOC beating Joe Crowley. I mean, Democrats have had this gift of waking up to where the bases handed them on a silver platter over and over and over again.
- [28:08]
Griffin Davis
And Emily, what about mtg? Look at MTG out here. She's got like some of the most like small dollar contributors. Like, is she, is she more in touch with her base than the rest of the party? And is she like on this issue alone, like, is this catapulting her to some new echelon?
- [28:26]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean, it always depends with Republicans because there's a ton of daylight between people who say, like, oh, wrap up the war, but still like ardently supportive of Netanyahu and Israel. So it's always hard to know what it means when a Republican says at this point to upholster that they support Israel or not. But she's definitely more in touch with the millennial Gen Z Republican voter, that's for sure at this point. So we'll see. Going for her, small dollar donations are something that should also be eye opening to Republicans.
- [29:00]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, we shouldn't overstate the amount of the Republican shift because still overwhelmingly Republicans are pro Israel. Right. And see the world more through like they're our ally and, you know, they're more like us or whatever the, the worldview is. I can't even really wrap my head around it at this point. So most of the shift, boomer Republicans are still right where they've always been. Lockstep Israel, by and large on board with, you know, what Trump is doing and the, the everything for Netanyahu strategy. They're, they're totally there. It's really just among young Republicans that you begin to, to see a split. But that's, you know, I mean, I feel like Israel is kind of freaking out about that. I feel like that's a big part of the reason why they're taking over TikTok and installing Barry Weiss as editor in chief of CBS. Like, I can't even, you know, if you told me, yes, if you told me some of these things, that would be reality now, like, Tony Blair is going to take over Gaza and Barry Weiss is going to be editor in chief cbs, I would be like, I mean, you just like, I literally could not have made it up. I could not have made it up in my mind.
- [30:06]
Griffin Davis
All of those, those young viewers at CBS News, the young demographic.
- [30:11]
Saagar Enjeti
It was a great birthday gift to you, though, Griffin.
- [30:14]
Griffin Davis
That's right. Yeah. I'm, I'm excited. I'm happy for our colleagues, our sister podcast and their success.
- [30:20]
Saagar Enjeti
You're mostly happy for your friend Olivia Rheingold. We all know that's what it does.
- [30:25]
Griffin Davis
I like content creators, so why don't we move on to ice? We've got some horrible news stories over the weekend, and this one really struck Crystal that she wanted to share. This was happening in Chicago, I believe, where the use of Black Hawk helicopters was used. Let's take a listen to a little bit from the local news.
- [30:49]
Krystal Ball
She says they took everyone and then asked questions later. It just treated us like we were nothing British. Fisher said she came out to the hallway of her apartment complex on the corner of 75th and South Shore Drive in her nightgown around 10 Monday night, only to find ICE agents yelling police. It was scary because I've never had a gun put in my face. They asked my name and my date of birth and asked me did I have any worse? And I told them, no, I didn't. She says she was then handcuffed and released around 3am Fisher says she was told if anyone had any kind of warrant out for them, even if it was unrelated to immigration, they would not be released, says an app video shows the chaotic scene overnight. Neighbors tell us there were dozens of ICE agents. Neighbors like Ebony Watson says they ducked for cover as they heard several flashbangs go off. They was terrified. The kids was crying. People were screaming. They looked very distraught. I was out there crying when I seen the little girl come around the corner because they was bringing the kids out, too, who had them zip tied to each other. That's all I kept asking, where's the morality? Where's the human?
- [31:53]
Griffin Davis
Yeah, so it keeps going on. But there's more reports also of like, yeah, them dragging children out into, out of their homes. Some of the children were naked, apparently, zip tied. And so, yeah, what are we, what are we to make of this? Especially after Trump has meme war declaration of Chicago. I think a week or two ago is when he posted that meme of napalming Chicago. So I guess he's following up on his promises here.
- [32:20]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, he also promised in that Quantico speech this week to use these cities as training grounds. By the way, that was at 44.
- [32:27]
Krystal Ball
Minutes in explicitly talking about unleashing the military with all of the top generals assembled there against the enemy within. And like these ladies that you just saw there on the street who are American citizens who did nothing wrong. That is apparently what he means. I mean, I just, I, I know that there's a lot that's shocking in the world. I know there's a lot that's shocking in the country. I really want people to sit with what happened here, okay? They used Black Hawk helicopters in the middle of the night to rappel into an apartment building. They pulled everyone out, broke down the doors, destroyed their belongings. There were no warrants. Okay? Little kids who were sleeping naked or in their underwear pulled out crying, zip tied together and thrown into U haul vans. Little American kids. Okay. It wouldn't be okay if it's immigrants, by the way, but I know this is like an important distinction for a lot of people. Other people, grown ups, adults, seniors, dragged and did nothing wrong. Middle of the night, again, unclothed, zip tied together, thrown and detained for hours. For hours. No ability to make a phone call, no lawyer, no warrant, nothing. Like, these are criminal acts. These are criminal acts being committed by the dhs. They have decided that our rights do not exist, do not matter. That through brute force, they can literally do whatever they want to whoever they want. That's what we're talking about here. And this isn't the only instance. New York Times had a report on a number of American citizens who'd been swept up by ice. You know, one man, he was trying to get to his work site. American citizen, veteran, army veteran, by the way, had his windshield smashed in by ice. They shot pepper spray in his face, and they pulled him out, arrested him, and held him for three days. No call, no lawyer, nothing. They think they can do whatever they want. And that's what I want people to really understand. Okay, this is about immigration, but it's also not about immigration. This is about a regime that thinks they can literally act with impunity because they have the power and they have the guns. Some of these, These Democratic mayors and governors, like law enforcement needs to protect these citizens. They are being abused, they're being assaulted, they're having their rights violated, they're having their possessions destroyed. This apartment complex may not even open up again. They may be completely displaced. I just. I am. I am completely floored. I'm. Without words, like, I. It's hard for me to be shocked by what this administration does at this point. When we were talking about pulling naked kids out of their beds, zip, tying them together and throwing them in the back of a U Haul van in the middle of the night. How can anyone. I don't care if you love Trump or hate Trump or you're anti. Whatever. I don't know how anyone morally justifies this and feels okay with it and thinks that it doesn't directly implicate your own rights in your own life.
- [35:43]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, this the also. But I think this also implicates the rogue nature of ice. Like, ICE is a genuinely dangerous agency. People started calling it out around 2017, 28. It was only created in the wake of 9, 11, and it produced this rogue culture where anything went. I don't know if you remember in 2018 or 2019, several members of the squad went down to the border and before that, the intercept and also ProPublica, like, obtained the Facebook chats. Like, the Facebook page. This private Facebook page had like, hundreds of not just ICE agents, but top officials in ice. And it was insane. Like, genocidal rhetoric like rape threats, death threats. Like, the most. The most disgusting type of stuff that you can. That you can fathom was being put out onto this massive Facebook group with senior officials at ICE on there and hundreds of agents, and absolutely nothing was done about that. And now we have an entire rogue government. So it's not fair to call ICE rogue anymore. ICE is now aligned with this administration and is being told, all of those impulses that you've had all of these years, those are Good. Feed them. Go for it. We've got your back. And yeah, Crystal's point that it shouldn't be done to anybody, but of course it's not going to stop it. So called illegal immigrants.
- [37:34]
Saagar Enjeti
So there's absolutely no excuse. I mean they have helicopters in Elgin, if you know the area. Elgin is a suburb of Chicago, like a sleepy suburb of Chicago. And I'm sure there are a lot of Venezuelan migrants who have in the case in Chicago, the Chicago raid that we were talking about earlier lived in these apartment buildings. They brought a helicopter, military vehicles in Kirsty Nome into Elgin. And sometimes people, when I say that this is a LARP act like I think that's not serious. It's, it's actually like it's calling something a larp, like a fascist larp. I think that's extremely serious and I think that's what they're doing. They're. If you go to the dhs, Twitter, it's obviously it goes beyond a LARP when you're actually detaining people. But I'm, I'm using that to, to say that they are doing this performatively. They are detaining US Citizens for the performance value that they see in this like, like theater of Blackhawk helicopters or helicopters at all in suburban Chicago with Kristi Noem and the photo ops. Remember this is again Homeland Security where Kristi Noem is doing all of the photo ops. Like their, their position on the performance is that it's like just as much of a part of the game. And so that's where they're really leaning into it. And it's abhorrent. I mean, it's just, it's, it's so unserious. And I say that coming from a different place than you guys, which is there are really serious. I think they're like extremely serious operations that need to happen because there actually are people who came who are criminals and in fairly big numbers during the case of the Biden administration that are actually endangering US Citizens. There are people who are here who need to go through the legal processing system because they're US Citizens and wages are on the line. And I know, I disagree with you guys on that point. But like, I think, I believe in the process and I believe that the Biden administration left the Trump administration in a position where the American people wanted to see the process. But that's from my perspective, this is like even more horrifying because of that, because it is so unserious. And if you go to their social Media, they are posting the most, like just the dumbest stuff on the DHS Twitter feed. And I'm sure it's like that on Instagram too. And so I just feel like they're sacrificing something that's really serious for a LARP and B, endangering like people's rights. And it's not impossible that some of these guys end up actually like incarcerated down the line.
- [40:12]
Krystal Ball
They need to be. I mean they genuinely, like, these are criminal acts and you can go and you can watch. In California, ICE stormed a car wash and again they've been greenlit by the Supreme Court to just racially profile, by the way, stormed a car wash and a 79 year old American business owner comes out to try to say, hey, I have paperwork for these workers, like what's going on? They throw 79 year old American business owner, throw him to the ground, jump on him, break his ribs, give him a head trauma, head injury, ends up in the hospital. He is now suing them. You can watch this on video, right? And this is the part like, you know, I just told you about the guy, American veteran in, in a car. Like there are so many Americans who are caught, I don't even want to say caught up in this, who are being targeted by their own government that is vastly more terrifying than some Venezuelan migrants living in your apartment building. Go ask those ladies, I mean one of those ladies who there at the end of the clip that we showed, she was saying, I kept asking, where's your morality? What are you doing? These are kids. And they said, one of the ICE agents said, and I quote, fuck them kids. That was their view. Fuck them kids. These are, whether they're immigrants or Americans. And this was mostly Americans in this apartment complex. That's their view. That is profoundly more dangerous than any, you know, potential like Trenda Aragua member, when your government that has the full force and power of the state is acting with complete and total impunity. That is a vastly greater danger than anything that we have seen in terms of undocumented immigrants coming into this country. And this is the part that I feel like no one ever grappled with or talked about when, you know, they were at the RNC with the mass deportation now signs and everyone's cheering this and the vibe shift, blah, blah, blah. Especially for there was a contingent of, of libertarians. And you know, I like Dave Smith, but he's, he's emblematic of this type who embrace this sort of thing and it's like in order to separate undocumented immigrant from citizen. It requires a massive police state apparatus. That is what necessitate, like that is what is necessitated by this mass deportation strategy. And by the way, if you care about, you know, if, if you care about going after the criminals, getting, getting criminals down, et cetera, they're doing a piss poor job at that. Drug trafficking convictions are way down because.
- [42:58]
Saagar Enjeti
They'Re also going to lose all public support. They're going to completely lose all public support too.
- [43:02]
Krystal Ball
Like they want to be raiding a random apartment building, they want to be raiding the Home Depot. This is explicitly what Stephen Miller has said. So it's the polar opposite of going after the violent criminals. The majority of the people who are now in ICE custody for the first time have no criminal conviction whatsoever, are not indicted. They're not like these are just people who cross the border illegally, which is a civil infraction, and are being treated like they're, you know, serial killers. It's insane. And so it should be surprising to no one the way that this, this stripping of rights from immigrants, any rights, the ones that they're entitled to, stripping of all rights from immigrants, was going to bleed over into American citizens. And we are seeing that expansion over and over and over again. And I'm just, I don't know, I'm, I'm horrified, I'm absolutely horrified by what we're seeing happening here in our country with so little pushback from the so called opposition party too.
- [43:59]
Ryan Grim
And also the Chicago's Mexican American population is like well over like 100 years old. Like this is, it is a fab. It is a part of the fabric of Chicago culture and, and society. You know, the Mexican revolution and then, you know, the, the need for factory jobs, Factory workers in World War I really, you know, drove this massive pull of, of Mexicans who moved up to the Chicago area, which is roughly the same time that Stephen Miller's family got here. Like they like Stephen Miller's family and a lot of these Chicanos, you know, have, have equal amounts of claim when it comes to the, the duration of the time that they've spent here in the United States. So like pretending that you can, you know, take a heritage American.
- [44:46]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, yeah.
- [44:47]
Ryan Grim
And the. Exactly. And the is in Supreme Court is.
- [44:51]
Krystal Ball
In Fuentes, a Chicago, he's a Chicago area Latino.
- [44:55]
Saagar Enjeti
That's right.
- [44:56]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. The Supreme Court like believing. So the Supreme Court legalized like this like skin color test that you know, from like they, you know, put the, put the little paint stick up by somebody's face and the darker they are the, the more right ICE has then to like, you know, smash their face into the, into the sidewalk. But it actually belies the, the, the real history of, of Chicago. And I was talking to some people from Chicago last night. They were saying it's like a ghost town and huge parts of the city, people just scared like in their own country, scared to go out.
- [45:32]
Krystal Ball
So I shot and killed a guy in or around Chicago. And then they lied about, about it. You know, they claimed he was a criminal. They claimed that they were, you know, severely injured. Whatever video came out and it was complete and total lie. Like this guy had no, was not a criminal, no criminal record whatsoever. And they ended up killing him. Like that's, that's, that is the level of impunity that we're talking about here. And I don't know, I just feel like if they're, they keep, they're just allowed to get away with you. We, we all watched that woman outside the courtroom in New York who was upset because her husband was being arrested to be deported. She's there with her two little kids. This thug takes her, grabs her by the hand hair, throws her on the ground again, all recorded, we all can see it. And she ends up in the hospital with a head injury. And the guy initially I says, oh, this was unacceptable behavior. Week later he's back on the job. Not even a week later he's back on the job. What do you think these new recruits who are coming in, the big beautiful bill has makes ICE the largest law enforcement agency in history. What do you, these new recruits who are coming in, who are looking at this, what do you think that their attitude is going to be like, like if you're sign, if you're seeing those videos, if you're seeing the 79 year old business owner having his ribs broken, if you're seeing the man who was shot to death on the side of the road, if you're seeing this lady who gets thrown to the ground like, and you're, you're like, yes, that's me. I want to be part of that. This is only going to get worse.
- [47:06]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, I just, I also just want to emphasize this makes everybody less safe because once again, I think the Trump administration has this idea there's a public mandate to do, quote, mass deportations, which everybody is going to define differently. Seriously, like, there is no consensus number for what a mass deportation would look like or what it should look like. And there have already been backlashes in the public. You see Rogan and others who have moved away from what the, quote, mass deportation administration looks like. But they're losing. I mean, this is going to jeopardize an enormous amount of public support for the project of actually ridding the country of violent criminals. And there are some violent criminals here. And so everybody is less safe because the Trump administration right now is, is choosing to prioritize this theater. And I don't mean that again, like it goes beyond theater because it's actually happening, of course, but I'm saying they're a huge part of their animus for doing it the way that they're doing it is. It's not just about disincentivizing people to continue coming into the country and getting people to self deport. It's not just about that. It's the show of force that, that, you know, the, the people inside the administration are loving. And again, you can tell this from their social media. It feels like this, this culture war backlash to the Biden era. You see this with the Pete Hagseth speech this week. It's, it's this idea of putting on a show of fighting back against like, the culture of weakness and anti Americanism and all of that. And if it leads to, as it is in this case, militarization of suburbs like Elgin, the, the public is going to rightfully start pushing back and then you, you going to lose any, like, scrap of public support for what people did say they wanted to see at some point. Now, again, what that looked like nobody had. Some people might have been comfortable with a small number of, quote, mass deportations compared to what the Biden administration was doing, but that's all going to be gone for the Trump administration the more that continues. And again, this is like, rightfully so. These are US Citizens and you are incompetently, like, acting a fool because you want to play dress up and use the Blackhawk helicopters and because the President is saying we should use these cities as a training ground for the military. That is not American and it is not conservative.
- [49:34]
Krystal Ball
And it meant. Because Stephen Miller is a sadistic freak and he runs the government. I mean, that's whose policy this is like. And they're, I mean, this is the thing that is so. I don't know, I don't even know the words at this point, but it's so terrifying to grapple with because they can't be so stupid as to think this stuff is popular. It's not. Right. You've already.
- [49:58]
Saagar Enjeti
Oh, no, I actually think they do. I, I'm, I seriously think that they do. I think they're in their own bubble.
- [50:03]
Krystal Ball
Like the left was, it seems to me like they genuinely don't care what the election results are. Like, they will, you know, the, the level of overreach is so insane that it just seems like they have thrown electoral politics to the side. And I'm like, well, okay, well what does that mean? You don't think that there's ever going to be any sort of electoral repercussions to the acts that you're taking here? You know, they're so proud of like, oh, Trump was able to win over some significant amount of Latinos and even there were some number of black voters who came back to him. Like, that is, that is all gone, right? The young people that voted for Trump, that is all gone. And yet they continue in this completely unhinged fascist takeover. And so that's what makes me ask like, okay, well what is the plan then? Because clearly they don't think there's ever going to be any potential of electoral consequences is they're going for the whole thing right now. They're going for the whole enchilada. That's what NSPM 7, by the way, that Ken Klippenstein has been reporting on is about. We're going to make sure we don't even have a political opposition. Like they don't even exist. Which Democrats are doing a good job of basically making reality all on their own. But they are taking a little bit of a stand this week. So we'll give them a little bit of credit for that. But you know, Trump made that comment in that speech as well. He's like, I thought there'd be pushback. I thought we'd have a fight. There's no fight. Right? They're going for the whole thing. And so acts like this, it's not just about immigration. This is a demonstration of force. This is a demonstration to the public, citizen, non citizen alike. We can do whatever we want to you. You better stay in line, you better pray, you better be on our good side because that is the only thing that will protect you. These rights that you imagine you have, they don't exist. Look at the Supreme Court. They give us everything we want at every turn. The only thing that they stood up against was like, I guess we're going to keep the Fed in place. That's it. That was their line there. Other than that, on the shadow docket, Trump has gotten his way. So, yeah, greenlit. The racial profiling, all of this, the rescissions, all of it, yes, your rights don't matter here anymore. And that's what these that's what these overt acts, rogue lawless criminal acts, assaults. Bring naked children out in the street, stuffing them in U haul vans, killing someone on the side of the street and lying about it, throwing business owners. That's what they are meant to convey. We can do whatever we want to you whenever you want. So you better shut up and sit down and get in line.
- [52:38]
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- [53:38]
Josh Clark
Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff youf Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes then if we Good news for you. Stuff youf Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff youf Should Know True crime Playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [54:12]
Krystal Ball
All I know is what I've been told and that's a half truth is a whole lie.
- [54:17]
Maggie Freeling
For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story I'm telling you.
- [54:33]
Krystal Ball
We know Quincy killed her.
- [54:35]
Maggie Freeling
We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.
- [54:44]
Ryan Grim
Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.
- [54:51]
Maggie Freeling
My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, producer And I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.
- [55:01]
Ryan Grim
I did not know her, and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that she.
- [55:06]
Saagar Enjeti
Y' all said it.
- [55:06]
Krystal Ball
They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.
- [55:14]
Maggie Freeling
From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to.
- [55:24]
Ryan Grim
Blame America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.
- [55:34]
Maggie Freeling
Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava For Good plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [55:56]
Griffin Davis
So we got. Got PR problems with this, and we've got other PR problems happening in the Trump administration, which I think will move us nicely to a little bit of Epstein news that Emily shared with none other than Howard Lutnick kind of stepping into the ring here.
- [56:15]
Saagar Enjeti
So Howard Lutnick went on the Miranda Devine New York Post podcasts, which gets a lot of dishy stuff because Miranda, like, knows these guys pretty well and was able to, you know, pull some of these thoughts out of them. And this is, like, sneakily one of the most candid things a Trump administration official has said since the entire Bindergate Bondi fiasco. Fiasco of especially earlier in the summer. I think Lutnick was just comfortable in a conversation with Miranda Devine and said this. Griffin's about to play the clip about what he thinks on Jeffrey Epstein, having known him.
- [56:50]
Krystal Ball
The guy's gross, right? With my wife, the guy's gross. This was not, oh, the deep nuance of Howard Lut. This guy is gross. Right. So how come Bill Gates and all.
- [57:02]
Saagar Enjeti
These other people could hang around him.
- [57:04]
Krystal Ball
And not see what you saw? Or did they see it and ignore it?
- [57:09]
Ryan Grim
Or.
- [57:09]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
No, they participated.
- [57:10]
Krystal Ball
Right. That's what his M.O.
- [57:12]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
Was. You know, get a massage. Get a massage. And what happened in that massage room.
- [57:16]
Krystal Ball
I assume was on video.
- [57:18]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever.
- [57:21]
Krystal Ball
Blackmailed people.
- [57:23]
Mayor Pete Buttigieg
That's how he had money.
- [57:24]
Griffin Davis
Interesting. So he assumes some of it's on video.
- [57:28]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, and Ryan, you can speak more to this, but Howard Lutnick was firmly ensconced in the world of New York finance, exactly in the type of position of somebody who would have been for years.
- [57:38]
Krystal Ball
Didn't he literally live next to Epstein? Am I right about that?
- [57:42]
Saagar Enjeti
I don't Remember that? Let me look it up. But he's the person who would be in a position to know. Yes. And so he's hearing this for years and years and there you have him just breezily saying, like, yeah, he was pulling guys in to have massages. And I'm sure they're all on video. This is the Commerce Secretary. This is the Commerce Secretary. And his own boss, the President of the United States, wrote the very most charitable way to put it. Like, what's even, the, what is even the word? Like, cheeky birthday letter to a guy who. The Commerce Secretary, again, is saying, yeah, everyone. Like, he's saying it so breezily, as though the implication is, yeah, everyone knows that he was pulling guys in to get massages in his townhouse and he was gross. They knew it and they did it anyway. That implicates the President.
- [58:30]
Ryan Grim
Right. They didn't do it anyway. They did it because of that. Yeah.
- [58:33]
Krystal Ball
By the way, I did check he did live next door to Epstein in Upper east side. That Upper east side mansion. Lnick was the next door neighborhood.
- [58:40]
Saagar Enjeti
Park Avenue. Is that what it was? Yeah, yeah.
- [58:43]
Ryan Grim
He was the founder of can't, or at least the CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, the, you know, absolutely massive financial services firm that was at the top of the World Trade Center. So yeah, he, he's, he's right in that, in that social circle. Yeah. What he's saying is that it's, it's not that people saw what he was doing and hung out with Epstein anyway, despite that they were hanging around him because of that. Like, that was the draw for people. He was not like Brow, you know, he was not twisting their arms to get these massages. And then like Lutnick says, he believes that they were getting filmed at that point. It doesn't matter if they were getting filmed or not. Like if you're one of these guys, like a Gates or somebody who's in that room. And then as Lutnick says, whatever happens, happens. And you're not sure if it's. If the cameras are on, you now are under the thumb of Epstein because, because maybe he's got film, maybe he doesn't. He probably does. You don't want to find out the hard way. So then he's got you. But as, you know, as, as is also the case, he barely needed blackmail over these people. Like he was, he had money and power and connections and people wanted to be part of that.
- [60:12]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [60:14]
Ryan Grim
And so blackmail is like almost a little extra little a la carte item that he could bring.
- [60:20]
Krystal Ball
I feel like, that really comes out in some of the correspondence that was revealed between JP Morgan executives who were, like, debating whether to keep him on. And, you know, there were several, several in particular who tended to be his advocate, but one specifically who had been to the island. And there's this grotesque email exchange between that dude and Epstein talking about, like, oh, I had a great time with whatever Disney, Snow White, I think it was. And he says, oh, well, who would you like next? And he's, I think, you know, Beauty and the Beast or something like that. I mean, seems clear what is being referenced there. And so, you know, you've got it working all the way. So Epstein is bringing in money to JP Morgan. He's bringing deals he's able to bring in. He facilitates a meeting with Netanyahu, facilitates a meeting with Elon Musk, bringing in all these big players. Bill Gates, I think, is one of the people that he brought in as well. He's trying to set up some. Something with them. So he's making them money, number one. Number two, this dude is, like, enjoying the time on the island. He's having a grand old time and doing whatever's happening there. And so he's benefiting monetarily, he's benefiting sexually, he's benefiting in terms of, like, his lifestyle. And then also he knows that if this guy ever wants to pull the pin on me, he can do it. So he's also under his thumb that way. And it seems pretty clear like, that Lutnik's general assessment is correct, that, you know, these guys were getting benefits and they knew that there would be a cost to just, like, distancing themselves from Epstein, from certainly being a whistleblower with regard to Epstein. So they just decided to enjoy the perks instead of doing the correct and obvious moral thing.
- [62:09]
Griffin Davis
And to Emily's point, it must be a good interviewer because, like Lutnick, why are you bringing Epstein up right now? We just had the Charlie Kirk memorial. Like, people were forgetting things.
- [62:21]
Ryan Grim
Like, one of a kind, too.
- [62:24]
Griffin Davis
But, like, you know, the Epstein, like, it's been a long September, but September started with the drawing, the Trump drawing of the premature woman in the Jeffrey Epstein book. And then the Charlie Kirk assassination happened, and largely the conversation was over about the Epstein book and stuff like that. But like, nope, let's refresh. Let's bring it back.
- [62:46]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean, that's the danger of. Of sitting down with Miranda Devine, who is, like, just friendly with a lot of these guys and is also very curious about deep state issues. So It's, It's. She's in one of those rare positions where she can pull some of that, extract some of that information very casually out of guys like Howard Lutnick. I mean, Lutnick is, like Ryan said, it's. It's not surprising that hard to pull.
- [63:07]
Ryan Grim
Anything out of him.
- [63:08]
Saagar Enjeti
Stumbled into this little disclosure. But that is a good reminder. There were videotapes confiscated from Palm beach, videotapes confiscated from the Manhattan townhouse. We do not know anything about what the government knows from the surveillance network from the Houses that was apparently uncovered. All of the guys like Lutnick seem to believe that there were hidden cameras. We saw the pictures the New York Times released of cameras in the bedroom. There's very clear evidence Epstein was just aggressively recording what happened in his homes. And Black using that as blackmail. And we know that the government has unreleased information that would help us understand that better, because we know some of these records were seized from the Houses. So that is a giant. I mean, continues to be one of the biggest unanswered questions that the government seems to have zero interest whatsoever in ever coming up with a response to.
- [64:07]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, guys, do you want to. We should probably talk a little bit about the fact that there was supposed to be a jobs report this morning, and there's no jobs report this morning. And I think we bought some Joanie Ernst soybean updates as well. But, I mean, this is. This is a huge story. This is something that, in a more normal time, this would be red alert, you know, breaking news, everyone be freaking out and losing their minds. And I'm sure there are plenty on Wall street who are still freaking out and, you know, losing their minds. But this is supposed to be jobs report Friday. Every Friday of the month, you get the government BLS jobs report. Everybody waits to see what those numbers are. They're highly. They're the most, I would say, anticipated numbers that come out of the government, and this week, we're just not getting them. Now, that is partly because of government shutdown. It's partly because Trump fired the previous BLS commissioner because he didn't like the numbers he was getting. It's partly because the dude that they picked to. To be swapped in for BLS commissioner was like a total incompetent crank that even some on the right were like, this guy can't possibly do the job. And they pulled his nomination. And so now we're just, like, flying blind on the economy. This comes on the heels of a different privately compiled jobs report from ADP that was negative and that also had a downward adjustment for the prior month. So things not looking so great in terms of where we are economically at this point.
- [65:33]
Griffin Davis
Point, yes. Let's watch that clip and more on the second half of the show where we'll get into that and more subjects like the Riyadh Comedy Festival. And we'll be answering some of your AMA questions from the Breaking Points Premium members. If you want to sign up, watch the second half of the show, breakingpoints.com and we'll see you all on the other half.
- [65:56]
Saagar Enjeti
One more part of that tease. Crystal will be live alone on the streets of Baltimore for Tommy.
- [66:01]
Krystal Ball
That's right, Tommy.
- [66:03]
Saagar Enjeti
She will be coming to us live from Baltimore.
- [66:06]
Krystal Ball
Although I think I'm supposed to be supposed to be at night, so I'm gonna have to hang out there all day. That's fine. I like Baltimore.
- [66:12]
Saagar Enjeti
Okay.
- [66:12]
Krystal Ball
It's a nice, it's a nice song.
- [66:13]
Griffin Davis
And you have to listen to. You have to be blasting Bad Bunny on a boombox as well.
- [66:18]
Krystal Ball
Great American artists. You know, you know, folks, if you.
- [66:22]
Griffin Davis
Don'T know what we're talking about right now, there's an incredible. Tommy Lauren takes down Crystal Ball. Larryn.
- [66:28]
Krystal Ball
That's right.
- [66:29]
Griffin Davis
Sorry it's been so long. So if you want to see Crystal Ball get absolutely humiliated, owned, wrecked, destroyed, and see her liberal tears, you can check out that interview drinking them now.
- [66:42]
Ryan Grim
Corey Cori Bush is running for congress against Wesley Bell. So maybe we'll talk about that.
- [66:47]
Krystal Ball
Oh, nice. I thought she was already. I thought that was already official.
- [66:50]
Ryan Grim
She announced this morning.
- [66:51]
Krystal Ball
Oh, cool.
- [66:52]
Ryan Grim
It was nice. It was. It was expected. But she's now officially in.
- [66:55]
Krystal Ball
Let's go.
- [66:57]
Griffin Davis
So much to happen and talk about on the second half of the show. And we'll see you all there in just a moment.
- [67:05]
Krystal Ball
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- [67:37]
Ryan Grim
Recently and you probably handed over your insurance, your ID and even your Social Security number.
- [67:42]
Krystal Ball
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- [68:07]
Saagar Enjeti
Terms apply.
- [68:07]
Ryan Grim
Have you ever heard a story so unbelievable it just had to be true? Roofman is the jaw dropping new film about Jeffrey Manchester, played by Channing Tatum, a man who becomes infamous for breaking into over 40 McDonald's through the roof, then secretly living inside of Toys R Us for six months. With humor, suspense and heart, Roofman is a cat and mouse story that will keep you hooked until the very end. Don't miss Roofman. Only in theaters October 10th.
- [68:34]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast.