10/6/25: Soybean Farmer Rips Trump, Shutdown Polling, Van Jones Blames Foreign Misinfo On Israel Criticism

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – October 6, 2025

Episode Theme:
This episode centers on economic anxieties in the U.S.—from soybean farmers’ frustrations with Trump’s trade and bailout policies, to the instability bred by the AI tech bubble—and the shifting political landscape around the government shutdown. Krystal and Saagar also dig into the controversy sparked by Van Jones’ comments on Israel criticism, exposing the state of public discourse and media influence.

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1. Economic Fallout: Soybean Farmer vs. Trump’s Argentina Bailout

[02:05–06:43]

Key Points:

• A viral segment features a U.S. soybean farmer outraged at the Trump administration’s $20 billion bailout to Argentina, a key competitor.
• Farmer details how Chinese soybean purchases shifted to Argentina after the bailout, disadvantaging American farmers.
  • “So all my premium went to Argentina. Man, I haven’t gotten into weigh in on Argentina. That is so patently insane that we are bailing these people out literally just because they’re Trump friendly...” – Krystal Ball [03:40]
• The discussion highlights perceived incoherence and incompetence in current U.S. trade and bailout policies, with negative repercussions for American agriculture.
• Saagar notes Japan's new prime minister’s vows to renegotiate their trade deal, reflecting broader global disarray.

Notable Moment:

• Krystal on bailout priorities: "There are so many instances on the world stage and here publicly where things just make genuinely no sense." [04:30]

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2. The AI Boom/Bubble: Inflation, Inequality, and a Risky Future

[06:43–12:06]

Key Points:

• The only sector showing robust growth is artificial intelligence, propelled by massive capital expenditure, especially in data centers.
  • “The AI bubble is, quote, 17 times now the size of the dot com frenzy and four times the subprime bubble.” – Saagar Enjeti [05:25]
• Saagar raises alarm about recessionary conditions in 22 states, disproportionately affecting “flyover country” and farming regions.
• The hosts connect the AI boom to policy issues:
  • No tariffs on imported computers benefiting tech giants, while farmers suffer under adverse trade conditions.
  • Most AI/data center investments are not yet profitable, posing dangers dubbed "a bubble situation."
• News update: AMD stock soars after OpenAI-AMD collaboration, challenging Nvidia.
  • Krystal questions stock market logic: “You're spending money but then your stock goes up (…) That’s not how this works.” [09:21]

Insights & Concerns:

• Krystal expresses skepticism about generative AI’s creative value, calling much of it “TikTok slop.”
• Saagar is concerned by the rapid progress of AI and the public’s inability to discern real from fake:
  • “…we are not, as a society…the economic piece is one really important piece. Just like, as a society, are we ready for this? Think of people falling for some of the crap that's being put out now that is obviously AI and people are falling for it.” [10:49]

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3. Government Shutdown: Apathy, Blame, and Messaging

[15:02–24:02]

Key Points:

• Trump publicly attempts to blame Democrats for the ongoing government shutdown:
  • “Well, I call them Democrat layoffs. They’re Democrat layoffs. They're causing it." – Donald Trump (clip) [15:18]
• Krystal observes unprecedented public apathy about the shutdown, contrasting it with the major coverage in previous years (2013, 2018):
  • “There's not a single story about the shutdown. Not one.” [16:19]
• Saagar credits “shutdown fatigue” and a higher bar for outrage in the Trump 2.0 era as reasons for indifference.
• Polling breakdown:
  • Approval for handling the shutdown: Trump (32%), GOP reps (28%), Dems (27%)
  • Only ~28% (Dems) & ~23% (GOP) feel their own party’s position is “worth” the shutdown
  • On blame: 39% blame Trump/GOP, 30% Democrats, 31% both equally.
• Krystal critiques Democrats for failing to provide messaging that energizes their base:
  • “Among Democrats, a congressional shutdown quote, is it worth it? Only 48% say yes. Which to me that's a huge messaging failure from the Democratic Party…” [20:17]
• Both hosts stress that voters see Dems as “weak” (64%) and Republicans as “extreme” (59%), with “strong” also ranking high for Republicans.

Notable Quotes:

• Saagar: “People just don’t like it. People just don’t care. They distrust reactors. This is dysfunction.” [19:12]
• Krystal: “The number one word describing the Democratic Party at 64% is ‘weak’, and the number one word describing the Republican Party at 59% is ‘extreme’.” [22:01]

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4. Van Jones, Foreign Disinfo, and The Israel-Palestine Narrative

[26:31–34:08]

Key Points:

• Van Jones, on Bill Maher, attributes the proliferation of graphic images of Gaza to a foreign disinformation campaign, specifically from Iran and Qatar:
  • “If you are a young person, you open up your phone and all you see is dead Gaza baby…” – Van Jones (clip) [26:56]
• Saagar and Krystal push back, noting zero evidence for these claims and suggesting the American public’s genuine horror at Gaza’s plight instead explains viral content.
  • Saagar: “Most Americans are horrified by the idea of our tax dollars going to murder Gaza babies.” [27:31]
• Van Jones issues an online apology, but the hosts see it as incomplete and deflective.
• The conversation turns to censorship risks with TikTok’s acquisition by pro-Israel interests (Oracle, Fox), and the likelihood of increased suppression of pro-Palestinian views.
• Krystal: "If there is foreign influence over American politics, what country comes even close to Israel? There's not a single one." [30:29]
• Hosts highlight perceived double standards in media discourse, especially around which atrocities can be discussed.

Notable Moments:

• Krystal: "They just can't fathom that a lot of people just aren't buying their bullshit anymore." [30:25]
• Saagar (on Van Jones’ evolution): “Bay Area Maoist radical…called for Palestinian liberation…now getting $100 million from Jeff Bezos, wearing the hostage pin at a pro-Israel march.” [32:44]

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5. Closing Reflections on Media Power and Shifting Perspectives

[33:54–34:08]

Key Points:

• Both hosts reflect on how recent events have fundamentally shifted their own views on Israel/Palestine, with Krystal stating she was previously neutral.
  • “To see it now, I'm like, oh, my God.” – Krystal Ball [34:08]
• Saagar and Krystal note the growing divide between media narratives and public sentiment, especially with the appointment of Bari Weiss as editor-in-chief at CBS, signaling further normalization of pro-Israel messaging in mainstream media.

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Timestamps of Key Segments

| Segment | Start | End | |---------------------------------------|--------|--------| | Soybean Farmer & Argentina Bailout | 02:05 | 06:43 | | U.S. Economic Health & AI Bubble | 06:43 | 12:06 | | Public Apathy on Shutdown & Polling | 15:02 | 24:02 | | Van Jones, Disinfo, & Israel Critique | 26:31 | 34:08 |

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Memorable Quotes & Moments by Timestamp

• Krystal Ball [03:40]: "That is so patently insane that we are bailing these people out literally just because they're Trump friendly..."
• Saagar Enjeti [05:25]: "The AI bubble is, quote, 17 times now the size of the dot com frenzy..."
• Krystal Ball [16:19]: "There's not a single story about the shutdown. Not one."
• Saagar Enjeti [19:12]: "People just don’t like it. People just don’t care."
• Krystal Ball [22:01]: "The number one word describing the Democratic Party at 64% is weak, and the number one word describing the Republican Party at 59% is extreme."
• Van Jones (clip) [26:56]: "If you are a young person, you open up your phone and all you see is dead Gaza baby…"
• Krystal Ball [30:29]: "If we were to say that there is foreign influence over American politics, what country comes even close to Israel? There's not a single one..."

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Tone & Style

Krystal and Saagar maintain their signature blend of skepticism toward power, informal candor, and willingness to challenge both mainstream parties and media narratives. Their tone ranges from frustrated and alarmed (when discussing economic malaise and media spin), to sardonic (when covering public apathy or Van Jones’ missteps), always with a view toward surfacing stories and perspectives undercovered by the mainstream.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• U.S. economic policy continues to fuel inequality and leave large swathes of the country behind, with tech bubbles propping up metrics while rural and middle regions languish.
• Both parties are suffering a crisis of public trust, with voters split between seeing Republicans as “extreme” and Democrats as “weak.”
• The fusion of tech, media, and politics is fostering censorship risks and manipulating public discourse, especially on foreign policy issues.
• Even longtime commentators and journalists are shifting their views in response to recent international crises and media alignments.

This episode offers a vivid snapshot of today’s political and economic unease, with Krystal and Saagar as critical guides through the headline fog.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

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[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Saagar Enjeti]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Krystal Ball]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] all right, after that long discussion, we're going to turn now to the economy, shall we? Let's go ahead and start with this viral segment here of a soybean farmer furious with the Trump administration for bailing out Argentina after he has himself suffered tremendously from tariffs. Let's take a listen. Well, like we talked earlier, we went from 12 billion to zero. And then, you know, as a farmer, we get up one morning and you give Argentina, which is our second biggest competition in the world. They're the largest exporters of soybean meal in the world. So I get up one morning, I turn the news on and you get $20 billion of taxpayer money to my competition and Then the Chinese buy, I think the figure is 30 or 40 containers ships, which is about 65,000 metric tons of per ship, which is like 2.2 million bushels. So they buy 12 or 14 billion dollars worth of soybeans from the Argentinians after the tax holiday. And here's the caveat to it. They give $2.30 over the November board while I'm getting 50 cents under the November board. So that makes the argentinian soybeans about $12.42 a bushel. I think that's the real figure they gave. So all my premium, they all went to Argentina. So all my premium went to Argentina. Man, I haven't gotten into weigh in on Argentina. That is so patently insane that we are bailing these people out literally just because they're Trump friendly. I mean, and because a bunch of hedge funds, yeah, of course, hedge funds and VCs, et cetera, who placed bets on the Malay dream. And now our own people are like, hey, what the fuck dude? And then we had the leaked text messages that came out from, what was it To Scott Bessant about the Chinese. Just the way that these people, people have handled this, it offends me more than anything. Like the lack of coherence, the incompetence. It is unbelievable. And it would be funny if it weren't for guys like that. The soybean farmer bailing out, Argentina becoming the laughingstock, having no real trade deal here with China. By the way, I've been tracking closely, the new Prime Minister of Japan previously had said, I'm going to renegotiate that trade deal. So let's see how that goes. We turned Japan against us. Great. Awesome. There are so many instances on the world stage and here publicly where things just make genuinely no sense. Like no sense whatsoever. And so putting it all together with the economy, that's what worries me. Because at the same time, the one industry which is actually getting quite a bit of help from the federal government is AI. And there's some worrying stuff out there. Let's put this up here on the screen. The AI bubble is, quote 17 times now the size of the dot com French frenzy and four times the subprime bubble. One analyst is saying, of course, look, we can always find an analyst to say everything. But of course I like the headline and I do think it kind of underscores some of the issues that we are having where we talked extensively about this. AI capital expenditure and data center spending specifically is the only thing propping up our economy. We would almost Certainly be in a recession if it were not for AI data center spend. That is a highly inefficient way to make sure that you have GDP growth because it is not in any way distributed across the economy. It is not literal opposite of what a thriving small business labor market and all of that is supposed to look like. If we look in the opposite direction, what do you say you see everything else trending in the wrong direction. C3, for example. Please, let's put this up here on the screen. Quote, are we in a recession? Yes. If you live in one of these 22 states. And so they specifically point, if you look at those recession numbers, part of it is the flyover country where a lot of it is farming. That's where a lot of that is coming from. You have the Pacific Northwest, you have Maine and a lot of the northeastern corridor actually here in our own home state. And then including down right federal government. And then actually this is very concerning if you look down south because down south and specifically around Florida, the panhandle, these states were supposed to be booming under the new economy with work from home and with new investment. Georgia and all these other places were supposed to be getting a lot of money. And so anyway, I am when you look at some of these, it's very worrying and you consider that if you have 22 states, a lot of them in places are not going to be data center Reliant and or anything that has to do with the technology company or oil and gas. Like you can see in Texas, it's expanding. You're already having issues and they already say treading water and a lot of big economies, including California. So it's not a rosy picture when we put it all together.

[Saagar Enjeti]

No, absolutely not. And worth reminding you guys, we're supposed to get a jobs report Friday. We did not get a jobs report Friday. That was partly government shutdown, partly that we don't have a BLS commissioner. The one that gave the numbers Trump didn't like, got fired, the new guy. Even conservatives were like, this guy can't do the job. And so his nomination had to be pulled. They previously had delayed an inflation report, but there was an ADP private jobs report that came out that showed a very damaging jobs number and a lower revision for prior months as well. So things looking incredibly shaky. And to go back to the piece about the tariffs and the way this is in fact a impacting everybody put C4 up on the screen. I mean this is just, this just kind of tells you everything. So while the soybean Farmers are getting screwed every way in five ways. On Sunday. You have basically no tariffs on computer imports. So for these giant companies that are building out these data centers, they're not having to bear any extra costs from the tariffs. And you have this massive computer import surge due to the AI boom. So this speaks to the tariff policy. It also speaks to the increasing consolidation of our economy in this very speculative AI data center boom. And it's possible, by the way, just like with the dot com bubble, that AI genuinely does turn out to be transformative and that a bunch of people lose their asses and we have a massive crash and contraction and a bubble bursting because most of these investments that are being made and we're talking insane amounts of money being thrown at AI and at data center build out right now. Most of this is not profitable. They're still in this land of like, well, we'll figure out how to make money down the road, but we have to be the ones to win the AI race. And so of course that could set out. I got one for you right here. Bubble situation.

[Krystal Ball]

Huge news just this morning. AMD stock is up like 40%. OpenAI and AMD have announced a massive new computing deal quote marking the new phase of the AI boom. Five year agreement will challenge Nvidia's market dominance as OpenAI plans deployment of the AMD new chip. Their stock is literally booming overnight. I think it's actually carrying a decent portion of some of the gains this morning. But what does that mean? I mean, do you remember we. I. Oh yeah, I was on with Ryan where OpenAI invested 150 billion. I forget. Into who? Into some company and then their stock went up by like 150 billion and you're like, wait, what? You're like, you're, you're, you're spending money but then your stock goes up. I think it was Nvidia. That's what it was. It was like we're going to spend X, Y and Z and then our market cap is going to go up by X, Y and Z. It's like. But no, the money's going out of the company, right?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Not how does this work?

[Krystal Ball]

So how does this work? You're like, what? Look, I'm not a smart person, I guess when it comes to stocks because I would have predicted a crash a long time ago, but something about this, it just doesn't seem right. And then the Sora, you know, I originally was kind of excited for Sora. Once Sora too came out, I'm like, this is literally just TikTok slop. Like AI TikTok slop. I saw Mr. Beast and other people being like, oh, it might replace creators. I don't think so. At least for right now. To my eye, it looks like shit, so. And I have yet to see a piece of creative AI art that actually, actually passes the smell test. But I don't know.

[Saagar Enjeti]

They're getting close, though. They are.

[Krystal Ball]

Have you seen anything compelling? Like, actually good?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes. So Kyle and I were talking about this last night and he was showing me these videos that people made of like, I don't know, WWF, like 1990s WWF remakes. But it'll be like Tupac Shakur and Vicki. Right. And because you're telling it to do it in that style, the camera quality is low. So it's a little fuzzy. The way that if you watch some 1990s media, the way it would look, and they pull that off really pretty well.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, I've seen some of these 90 eras cuts.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

Take me back.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I feel like those are the ones where it comes closest. If you're trying to create a video that has the quality of like, you know, 4K cameras in 2025 or whatever, and that level of Christmas, people have a little bit of that uncanny valley. Like, there's a weird sheen to them. It's just not quite right. But they're getting pretty close. I mean, the level of the rapidity of the development is. For me, it's very unsettling. I personally think we should just shut it all down because we are not, as a society. The economic piece is one really important piece. Just like as a society, are we ready for this? Think of people falling for some of the crap that's being put out now that is obviously AI and people are falling for it. You're gonna have a total failure and inability of society to understand what is real and what is false. Things that are real. Remember Trump with the thing they were throwing out the White House window and he was like, oh, that's probably AI, like things that are actually real. Or you can look at the images in Gaza that propaganda said, oh, that's not real, that's fake, that's AI. Whatever. There will be that dynamic where things that are really happening, people say are fake, things that are fake are gonna be deemed as real. It's going to be topsy turvy. And we are, as a society in no way prepared to deal with that reality, let alone the other implications in terms of jobs, displacement and what the social contract is going to look like, all of that. So to me, I find it all. I'm very troubled by all of it.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm worried as hell. You know, we were talking the first Sora video that went viral was a surveillance video of Sam Altman.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

And I said, can you imagine if this shit had been around just a few weeks ago when Charlie was shot and Tyler Robinson deep fakes that were going around. You can see it happening like this. Also to the discussion we just had about potential division and all of that. I mean, these boomers barely know what's real on Facebook. Have you seen some of the stuff they're already sharing?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes. Which is those weird bridge videos where people are like on a glass bridge and it falls apart and then a dog rescues a girl and whatever and people are believing this stuff. Yeah, it's really scary. I mean, I'm not sure that some of the Tyler Robinson stuff that I have seen isn't a. I don't know for sure. I'm not sure. Right. These surveillance, they're grainy. Whatever. You could fake that easily already. So I don't know. Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices with sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anime is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus, our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise clean quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming [e-mail] Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming and performance that won't quit so you can push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high quality streaming with Intel Wi Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power [e-mail] lenovo Lenovo for over 50 years.

[Krystal Ball]

They redefined rock. The spirit lives on. Monday warrior mean stride Today's come saw your me me pride Getty Lee and Alex lifeson. Rush live 50 something tour. Sign up for presale access at Ticketmaster. Legends don't stop, they evolve. Rush, why don't we get to shutdown?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, lot going on here in terms of obviously. Still government shutdown appears to be an impasse as well. Trump is trying to pin the blame on Democrats. We'll show you some polling to indicate whether people are buying that or not. But let's go ahead and take a listen to Trump.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, I call them Democrat layoffs. They're Democrat layoffs. They're causing it. We're ready to go back. Record setting economy. We have a record setting country. Prices are way down.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We're doing better than the country's ever.

[Krystal Ball]

Done and the Democrats hate seeing that. It's up to them. Anybody laid off, that's because of the Democrats. Despite the current Democrat induced shutdown, we will get our service members every last penny.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. You're worried about it. And Sagar, I'm sure you saw how they were like forcing people's like out of office replies to blame the Democrats and putting up messages on the government websites. I mean Hatch act, what's that? Apparently doesn't matter anymore. But that's his framing.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes. Well, you know, I said this this morning. Is this the weirdest shutdown you've ever been through? 2013 and 2018, it was the biggest story in the world.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Front page of the New York Times. There's not a single story about the shutdown. Not one.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Really?

[Krystal Ball]

I went to the front page of the Wall Street Journal. OpenAI is the leading story. Nobody cares. It's crazy. I mean, look, this may be DC bias, but 2013 and 2018 especially, I cover the White House in 2018 every single day. Shut down, shut down, shut down. When I was in the White House briefing room, shut down when Trump was doing a press conference. All we're asking about is a shutdown. If you were in the White House today, what's the number one question you would ask? Probably Portland or Gaza. I wouldn't ask Trump about the shutdown. Yeah, it's weird.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean, it's on our show. We put it in. Yeah, you're right.

[Krystal Ball]

It doesn't feel like the stakes are high and I don't know, I mean, it's a weird situation. Right? Because if you can shut the Whole government down and nobody cares. Did the government really shut down? I mean, I'm not saying that there won't really be effects or any of that, but it is kind of an interesting question as to the. Maybe. Maybe a lot of us are just a nerd. We went through 2018, not much change, let's be honest. Was the longest shutdown in American history was 35 days. I lived through it, half of it was through Christmas. So I guess people just kind of ignored it. TSA still functioned, troops got paid, whatever. Right. Maybe that's just where we are now. Like this is just baked into the process. Even though it's a sign of like genuine small D, like Democratic failure in terms of the Republic. But it's odd. I've been trying to think through it cause I have my old brain, DC brain for a shutdown where I'm like, oh, what about a deal or a gang of Nine or there's nothing. Nothing is happening. Yeah, everyone's out of town.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, they're not even here. I think it's shutdown fatigue from all these years of shutdown politics. I think it's also just, you know, so many extraordinary things are being done in this, in Trump 2.0 in particular, that the bar for like freak out is really high. And so. And I also think Doge plays in there too, where you had all of these insane cuts in the hatchets and 100,000 federal employees just resigned as part of that like fork of the road thing. Their time was up, that just happened. And so. So these massive cuts to the federal government that have happened under the Trump administration also just feel sort of like, oh, you know, this is what we're doing, apparently. So I think that's part of why. I don't know, that's how best I can figure it out is just even in my own sense of like, you know what I'm most concerned about. The shutdown to me is important for Democrats to take a stand, cuz it's the only place they have power and to try to fight back. But I would say also the issue suite that they picked is really important. Very critical healthcare for people. It's a place where Democrats are winning the rhetorical battle. People broadly support the expansion, the ACA subsidies, et cetera, but it also doesn't get to the beating heart of what the base cares about. And so I think that's part of it as well.

[Krystal Ball]

Definitely. Let's put the polling up there, shall we? Let's just go ahead and skip forward. D three guys, please. And you can see how the government is handling the shutdown for Trump, a 32% approval. Representatives, 28 congressional Democrats is 27.

[Saagar Enjeti]

People just, people don't like it. People just don't care. Okay, this is, they disprove reactors. This is dysfunction. You know, that's generally how people feel about everybody involved.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's go to the next one, shall we? And continue. Concern about the government shutdown on the economy, very concerned, 49%. But everybody else either somewhat or not concerned. Let's continue and we can look at this. Are the positions worth a government shutdown? Democratic position, only 28% say worth it. The Republican position, only 23% say worth it. If you look at not worth it, it's 40 and 45 and then not sure is basically equally tied to some 30%. Continue please. Basically showing you, by the way, that people are not fully on board in terms of who's to blame for the government shutdown. You have the plurality, 39% say Trump and the Republicans, 30% say the Democrats, 31% say equally. So there's a lot of like, eh, either Trump, Democrats, both equally going around kind of hatred of the political system. And then finally, let's go to the last one among Democrats, a congressional shutdown quote, is it worth it? Only 48% say yes. Which to me that's a huge messaging failure from the Democratic Party because, you.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Know, with your own people it should be higher.

[Krystal Ball]

You need to be in the 90. If you had polled Republicans at the height of the 2013 shutdown, was it worth it? I can guarantee you it would have been like 80 or 90%.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Oh, you think so?

[Krystal Ball]

During that Tea Party wave, the Obama, the hatred where everybody was, they were ready, they were like, we are done.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And this is where I do feel like the, you know, what the base wants them to make a stand on is like National Guard needs to be out of our cities, like those sorts of the authoritarian crackdown pieces. That's where the energy is with the base of basically like you can't fund this authoritarian government. And so the healthcare piece is smart for a like general audience messaging. And it does put Trump in a bit of a bind and the Republicans in a bit of a bind because, you know, the fact that health care is about to get wildly more expensive is genuinely a bad thing for them. That's like a really, it's like a, you know, red flashing light that is blinking that is about to be a major political problem for them. So they do have some incentive to deal with that and be able to Extend those subsidies and not have those issues for the midterms. You've got some frontline Republicans who are in swing districts who feel like, let's just go ahead and, you know, and go ahead and extend these subsidies as well. But if you're trying to energize your own people and, like, have them committed to this and really be on board, and we're, like, going to the mat and we're not going to cave, et cetera, it's not really quite. It's not quite the right message. It's very focused test. It's very like, what polls the best. What's our best strategic tactical advantage? I understand it. And by the way, I'm not saying it's not important. I'm just saying in terms of where the energy and the base is, this is not really it.

[Krystal Ball]

Do we have that tweet about being weak? Do we have that which you mentioned?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, maybe I can just talk about it. Okay, here. So they asked people, like, what words best describe the two parties, And I think they gave them some choices. So it wasn't just, like, free form. They gave them some choices. So the number one word describing the Democratic Party at 64% is weak, and the number one word describing the Republican Party at 59% is extreme. And so that's kind of. I mean, I think that's how people view these parties. It's like the Democrats are weak and lifeless. Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries, not exactly inspiring any confidence in literally anyone at this point. And then the Republicans are, like, off their rockers doing all this crazy stuff. But they're strong. You know, there's a. The next one down for Republicans is strong. Wow. So that's, you know, that's kind of the way that people are viewing this. And, yeah, I mean, I do think that's the biggest problem. And that's what people. People don't understand. Not to go too far afield, but that's what people don't understand about the appeal of Zoron is that. Or even, like, you know, you brought up Graham Platner earlier. But putting aside, like, the content of the policy, there's a sense that these guys, like, know what they believe in. They're willing to take heed over it, they're willing to take a stand, et cetera. And that is so sorely lacking within the Democratic Party. I do think that just, like, a content, free sense of this is a person who has a strong view of the world and is willing to stand on a principle is a big part of their appeal.

[Krystal Ball]

I need to see it in a more. That's why I'm watching Graham much closer than New York is a blue city. Like look, no offense to the guy, I think he ran a good campaign. Good for him. I want to see it work in like an actual polarizing state or a place where Republicans have won in the past. That's where I'm curious to see what that brand and all of that will end up looking like. Because that's the ultimate question of can you actually oppose the national party on in your own state and overcome that in the way that the Tea Party Republicans were? Or are you just gonna be looked at as a normal Democrat? If that makes sense.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. Well that's. I mean that would be their greatest appeal is just like you're willing to actually stand up to the Democratic Party and separate yourself from them because they have a terrible, terrible, terrible can we.

[Krystal Ball]

Shout out Crystal for the core power 42 gram? I freaking love them.

[Saagar Enjeti]

They're so good.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, they're the best. They're like it is a magic elixir of those. Whatever that drink is. Nope, nope. We're not getting paid for this. I have a case of those in my house. I frickin love them.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Saagar Enjeti]

So Van Jones on with Bill Maher over the weekend and decided to make a joke about dead Gaza babies, in his words, showing up in everybody's social media feeds. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

[Krystal Ball]

I love this conversation because I think people, those of us who went to college, give a lot more credit to college courses for how the world works than I do. This is not about critical race theory on college campus.

[Saagar Enjeti]

This is about Iran.

[Krystal Ball]

Iran and Qatar have come up with a disinformation campaign that they are running through TikTok and Instagram that is massive. If you are a young person, you open up your phone and all you see is dead Gaza baby. Dead Gaza baby. Dead Gaza baby Diddy. Dead Gaza baby.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Dead Gaza baby.

[Krystal Ball]

That's basically your whole team. So that's not dei, that is a geopolitical. No, but the adversary that is deliberately trying to divide the west against itself.

[Saagar Enjeti]

There is so much to say about this. First of all, there's zero evidence that any of this has to do with an Iranian or Qatari disinformation campaign. But these are the sorts of things that you can just casually throw out and people just accept it rather than, oh, I don't know, the fact that most Americans are horrified by the idea of our tax dollars going to murder Gaza babies. Maybe that's a big part of why people are sharing that content and are feeling the horror at the morally compromised position that we as American taxpayers are being put in here. That's number one. Number two, you got Thomas Friedman and Bill Maher both there chuckling, giggling. Number four.

[Krystal Ball]

And the audience.

[Saagar Enjeti]

You've got the audience. I will say, having been on the show, they like, tell the audience when to laugh, but it's not an excuse. But I'm not saying we dox them. What's going on there?

[Krystal Ball]

We don't dox them. But guys, you gotta think about that one a little bit.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Van felt enough pressure that he did put out this apology, sort of put this up on the screen. He said, I made a comment on Real Time with Bill Maher about the war in Gaza. That was insensitive and hurtful. I apologize. The suffering the people of Gaza, especially the children, is not a punchline. I'm deeply sorry it came across that way. No, it was. You meant it as a punchline. It was supposed to be a laugh line. Anyway. What's happening to children in Gaza is heartbreaking. As a father, I can't begin to imagine the pain their parents are enduring, unable to protect their kids from unimaginable harm. I'm praying and working for immediate end to this war and for peace and safety for every family caught in its path. I'm truly sorry for the pain my words cause to people who are already suffering more than anyone should. So, okay, so he felt pressured to apologize, but he still does not take back this narrative that the reason why, yeah, you're seeing atrocities in your feed is because of some foreign misinformation like propaganda psyop. And I think it's really important that we sit with that at a time when it's official now Bari Weiss is gonna be editor in chief of cbs. Sent out her letter, got Oracle, the Ellisons and Fox News taking over TikTok. And already reportedly some censorship that is occurring there. And we could put the Ellison just so you know what their deal is, but E3 up on the screen. Oracle executives say love Israel. Or maybe this isn't the job for you. They were sending people who objected to the company's just all in pro Israel stance for mental health resources. Like there was something wrong with you if you just didn't agree with that. So anyway, those are the people who are buying TikTok. And it would not surprise me if the justification that they use for increased censorship of pro Palestinian views is exactly what Van Jones is pushing here.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I mean if we're gonna be real real here, like who are the. Who's the number one spreader of foreign propaganda on social media? Be honest. Like especially in the wake of October 7th, what I gotta go through all the hoaxes that we have had to drip through over the last two years.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That they're paying influencers $7,000 per post.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I do. I wanna see more documentation on that one. Cuz it seems so insane, but I would not put it past them. Right. At the very least, who do you think if we were to say that there is foreign influence over American politics? Is there? What country comes even close to Israel? There's not a single one. And yet he's like this is some Qatari or foreign disinformation op. I don't know. I mean, I just Think this is massive cope on the part of a lot of the pro Israel community. They just can't fathom that a lot of people just aren't buying their bullshit anymore. And you know, the fact, I guess you're right. You know, he felt like he had to apologize. And I don't love whataboutism necessarily. Let's say in October 19th, if you had the balls to go on the Bill Maher show and say every single time I open my social media feed, it's oven baby, oven baby, oven baby. Can you imagine? Can you imagine? And by the way, that from what we know so far was not true. Correct. All right. According to Haaretz and all. Ask ChatGPT if you want to.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Don't ask Pete Booty the obvious. Don't ask me buying that particular disadvantage.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, but I mean, can you imagine and how you canceled, you would be.

[Saagar Enjeti]

If you said, oh, forget about it.

[Krystal Ball]

Which, by the way, it was true because they spread that overwhelmingly to the entire American population, to everybody on social media, to everybody who engaged in politics so that they wouldn't, so that they would say something like, yeah, but what's happening in Gaza is horrific. But did you see what happened on October 7th? That's still the line that they use today. I don't know. So, you know, it's like if we're going to be, if we're going to be able to laugh and all of that at everybody, which I'm actually fine with as long as it's equally distributed. I don't see, I don't see a world where today you could take to the Bill Maher airwaves and say what I just said, like on October 19th, which is crazy because Bill himself, Bill.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Wouldn'T be there chuckling, that's for sure.

[Krystal Ball]

Right? But Bill, this is what's so nuts. Bill himself was canceled September 17, 2001 for saying that actually we are the cowards because we launched missiles into the Middle east and it seems like it's not cowardly to crash a plane into the Twin Towers. So he said that once upon a time. And yet now his show seems to be part of the same machine.

[Saagar Enjeti]

There's something to be said too about Van's journey, let's say. I mean, this guy, yes, this guy.

[Krystal Ball]

Was 100 mil from bezos buys a.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Lot Bay Area Maoist radical, signed some sort of 9, 11 truther type conspiracy letter, was alleged to kick down on the Obama administration because he was too extreme. And now like, and by the way, specifically, specifically on Israel, Palestine, called For Palestinian liberation, I believe, called it an apartheid. I mean, he was in the.

[Krystal Ball]

Like, to go from apartheid, like, this.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Is wild, the lefty position. He had some. I don't know, I saw some people sharing some like. Like, liberation rap album or something where he was talking about Palestine. I mean, he was on the left, like, truly on the left. And then, you know, then he's in Obama world, then he's on CNN and he's getting 100 million from Jeff Bezos. I remember he appeared at that, like, pro Israel march early on.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, he's wearing the hostage pin.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Did you see that? Yeah, exactly.

[Krystal Ball]

That alone.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And it's like, I just. I don't know. Well, the whole world is going the opposite direction. While the whole world. How many people, including Emily's, talked about this. How many people have had their eyes open to, like, what the state is and what it's doing and their lies and their propaganda, et cetera, and you're going in the other direction.

[Krystal Ball]

I would count myself in that category.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I don't know.

[Krystal Ball]

I didn't hate Israel before this.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I would count myself in that. And I, you know, I had the critique, you know, apartheid, all of that, but in terms of, like, just how sick it was, I did not. I did not understand.

[Krystal Ball]

I was. I was totally. I was genuinely neutral. I didn't care. I didn't support military aid or any of that. I don't really support military aid to most places. But, yeah, to see it now, I'm like, oh, my God. So congratulations to Barry Weiss with all the new editor in chief over at cbs. By the way. She sent out. We'll probably talk about this tomorrow, but she sent out a letter of 10 journalistic principles. And the first one is journalism that reports on the world as it actually is. So that's number one. All right, got it. So we'll preview a little show maybe what we'll talk about tomorrow. All right, thank you guys so much for watching. Sorry we went over time, but that's what we do here. We'll see you tomorrow. With the new IHOP Value menu. Six bucks is all it takes to go to your happy plates, where stacks of pancakes with bacon and eggs are just six bucks every day. French toast, sausage and eggs are, you guessed it, six bucks. And fluffy omelets come with a side of pancakes and only cost 6 bucks. Go to your Happy Plates every day at IHOP. 7 bucks in some locations, available every day for a limited time at participating restaurants in the U.S. hours may vary. No substitutions. Not valid. With other discounts or promotions. Prices may vary. What kind of man would let this.

[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

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