← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
11/11/25: Dems Wave White Flag For Trump, Trump Blames Biden For High Costs, Maxwell Sweet Life In Club Fed
01:09:26
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast. I turned off news altogether.
- [00:08]
Saagar Enjeti
I hate to say it, but I.
- [00:09]
Krystal Ball
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [00:15]
Saagar Enjeti
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [00:19]
Krystal Ball
We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America. This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Tour Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard. Yeah, I mean, if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case? Clear sound? These are not standard things. You're only gonna get them with the JBL Tour Pro 3, baby. And I love the sound of JBL and goes. These earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others. TouchSC smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling and the one of a kind audio transmitter which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in flight entertainment. What more could you want first doesn't follow. Grab a pair@jbl.com no it's not too.
- [01:23]
Saagar Enjeti
Soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is.
- [01:27]
Krystal Ball
Happening now through November 22nd.
- [01:29]
Saagar Enjeti
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and too faced. Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.
- [01:51]
Krystal Ball
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [01:53]
Saagar Enjeti
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of the show.
- [02:00]
Krystal Ball
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:06]
Saagar Enjeti
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:17]
Krystal Ball
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com Good morning everybody. Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?
- [02:28]
Saagar Enjeti
Indeed we do lots of recriminations on the Democratic side after they shut down Cave and Angus King says standing up to Trump didn't work. So we'll break all of that down for you. Trump is out floating $2,000 checks. Ghislaine Maxwell is asking for a commutation of her sentence and getting lots of special perks that she gets to play with the puppy while she is in prison. Who wouldn't love that? Incredible things happening there. Also incredible things happening in the White House yesterday where the former Al Qaeda leader turned president of Syria made a historic visit and got sanctions relief and all sorts of things. Wild world that we're living in here. We have new indications of an AI bubble that we are tracking. We're also taking a look at the fight over on the Republican side over Miriam Adelson's loyalty and what countries she's citizens of and all that sort of stuff. And the co founders of AIPAC Tracker are going public exclusively with us. Previously they've been anonymous. Obviously their information gathering has been incredibly influential in terms of raising awareness about AIPAC's influence in our country's politics. So really excited to share with you guys that interview that we recorded with them yesterday.
- [03:36]
Krystal Ball
Yep, that's right excited for that. Thank you to everybody who has been subscribing to the show breakingpoints.com if you're able to help us out. That's how we get stuff like the APAC interview. We are a place to see and be seen right for the APAC tracker, which of course has been very influential. So thank you very much breakingpoints.com to become a member. If you can't afford it, no worries, please just go ahead and hit subscribe to our YouTube channel and if you're listening to this podcast, please send your favorite episode to a friend or rate us 5 stars. It really helps the show grow. But with that, let's go ahead and get to the shutdown.
- [04:06]
Saagar Enjeti
Let's get to the Dems and what's going on with them. So Chuck Schumer obviously, and I think appropriately taking a lot of heat for being leader while manufacturing this shutdown. Now he put out, I'm sure this leak came from his camp yesterday about how he was really opposed to the cave and that he was behind the scenes working to push these senators who ultimately caved to hold out for longer. Of course, if that is true, which I'm very doubtful of, that just means that you're extraordinarily weak. However, Jeanne Shaheen, who was the lead negotiator of the deal to end the shutdown, she said no. We were in touch with leadership throughout, basically backing up some of the reporting that was coming out of the American prospect in other places. Let's go ahead and take a listen to what she said.
- [04:48]
Krystal Ball
Senator Chuck Schumer, your leader on the Senate, said, I cannot support a continuing resolution that fails to address health care. I am voting no. Did you do this outside leadership and was there a big push for you not to join the others and break the 60 threshold?
- [05:05]
Saagar Enjeti
No, we kept leadership informed throughout. Kept leadership informed throughout. Was there a big push to get you to not go alone? No, no, we were, you know, talking to leadership and of course, I mean, we talked to Rokata about this yesterday. He said basically like, do you think we're stupid? Of course Chuck Schumer was involved in this. And you can see it even in the strategy of which senators went along with the shutdown deal. They were, none of them are up for reelection. They know this is politically toxic for their own base. So it's all people who are either retiring or not up until at least 2028. And so your two options here are either Chuck Schumer was sort of like tacitly good with this or affirmatively pushing it, or so weak that he couldn't hold his caucus together. Either scenario, not a great look for him.
- [05:47]
Krystal Ball
One of the things the inside reporting has come out is that Chuck Schumer hold this whole so called gang of Democrats, like moderates in his office sometime in October, about a month or maybe like three or so weeks ago. And he was like, look, just at least hold out until November 1st. And this actually fits with a lot of the stuff that we reported throughout. They were gonna wait until November 1st for open enrollment. They were gonna get their news cycles about premiums go up. And he was like, okay, if you guys cave after that, so be it, you know. And allegedly he said that he wouldn't stop the deal. But of course, you know, like if he wanted to, he absolutely could have. I think the complicating factor in this is that what changed was the 2025 election day. And it was very clear how much energy a lot of the Democrats had. It was a blowout. I mean, to cover that One statistic, that 18 out of 18, whether it would've been a good night for Democrats and that actually genuinely would have the calculus if you are Chuck Schumer. I do think, and more and more that I've sat with it, I think that the Thanksgiving travel ended up being the deciding factor because SNAP was already on the ropes. But, you know, I don't think they actually cared. I think a lot of them, and this is One of the things that Trump did is apparently the administration specifically target our airport here, Reagan National. They're making travel hell for a lot of the congressmen and the senators who are flying in and out of D.C. and I mean, if you think about who are the people who fly a lot, it's like upper middle class, mostly liberals, especially at this time, people who. Or higher income. So I mean all signs, and this is not just me, but including some reporting out there, the Thanksgiving travel things seem to be one of the major pushes for a lot of these so called moderate Democrats, which kind of interesting actually in terms of why they decided to fold.
- [07:22]
Saagar Enjeti
It's not just their own inconvenience and the people who are like their primary supporters and all of that. It's also the airline industry gives.
- [07:30]
Krystal Ball
Right. Well, I talked about that bailouts, you know, if they went through that, they would have had to get bailed out. It would have been really bad.
- [07:35]
Saagar Enjeti
I'm sure airline lobbyists were blowing up their phones and others as well. And then. But I actually think another key part was the threat from Trump to nuke the filibuster. Now to me that would have been a superior end where you're like, you stay strong, you go to the mat and you force the Republicans to nuke the filibuster. Something they don't really want to do because they like these lame Democrats, like having the excuse of the filibuster because that gives them a reason, a good excuse for why they can't actually deliver. These are the, I mean, the filibuster is the best friend of the lame corporate Democrat who really wants to serve their donors, but wants to posture like they care about serving the American people. And so they can always throw up their hand. The filibuster, it's so hard. We'll never get 60 votes, we could never do anything, et cetera. So I actually think that the potential threat of getting rid of the filibuster was another piece that really pushed them across, I guess the finish line or whatever, the cave line, the pathetic line, the loser line. I mean, these are also people who wanted to cave from the beginning. So they were looking for any possible excuse, any possible off ramp that they could potentially take, just to underscore what a group of pathetic losers this is. Angus King, who's technically an independent of Maine, went on Morning Joe to justify his vote. And by the way, guys, I was watching some MSNBC yesterday. They are across the board irate. I mean, it really is like the level of backlash in the Democratic Base is quite astounding. Including the Joe Scarboroughs of the world, including the Rachel Maddows of the world, who is seldom critical of the Democratic Party. But any case, Angus King said this extraordinary thing to Joe Scarborough, which is that, quote, standing up to Trump didn't work. Let's take a listen.
- [09:16]
Krystal Ball
Well, Joe, you have to go back to what the strategy was at the beginning of the shutdown. There were two goals, both of which I support. One was standing up to Donald Trump. The other was getting some resolution on the ACA premium tax credit issue. The problem was the shutdown wasn't accomplishing either goals. And there was practically, there was zero likelihood that it was going to. In terms of standing up to Donald Trump, the shutdown actually gave him more power. Exhibit A being what he's done with SNAP and SNAP benefits across the country. Oh, by the way, Joe, you're going to love this. Guess who's getting paid during the shutdown? Not the park rangers or air traffic controllers. The ICE agents. Under special law, under that big awful bill that they passed last summer, the ICE agents are being paid. Nobody else is. So standing up to Donald Trump didn't work. It actually gave him more power.
- [10:13]
Saagar Enjeti
Standing up to Donald Trump didn't work. Like, literally resign. I mean, seriously, like, if you want to be in the opposition party and actually fight, which is what your own voters are demanding you do, and your view is that. That standing up to Trump doesn't work. Like, genuinely, you should step aside and let someone else in who has a different idea, a different conception of power, because this is utterly pathetic and it's not even true. Saver. Like, Trump was freaking out after this election, like, screaming at people that the government needed to be reopened. The pressure was all on the Republicans. They were owning the shutdown. All the chaos at the airports and whatever, that was falling squarely at their feet. So, in fact, it was working. And I think Ezra Klein made a great point in his piece, which was also decrying this pathetic deal that they struck, saying, listen, the thing Trump is gonna take from this is that they will always cave. Like, all you have to do is threaten them, bully them, hold on a little bit, and you're going to get your way. We always suspected that would be the case with the Democrats. They had a chance to push to prove everyone wrong this time, but instead, once again, they demonstrated their, like, habitual weakness. And that even when they hold all the cards, even when there's just been this national reckoning that sent as clear a message as possible that people are Rejecting the Trump administration and they are behind you in this strategy. That that's the moment you choose to cave is beyond pathetic.
- [11:39]
Krystal Ball
It's absolutely pathetic. Especially, I mean, yeah, the election demonstrated that Republicans are under enthused and Democrats are turning out to vote. Like, what else do you possibly need? You're like, yeah, people are behind you to actually, in terms of your strategy now, in of how it all plays out, what we saw with, first of all, with Angus Kent, he's not even sharp up there, you know, I mean, he's barely get a sentence like, fling.
- [12:01]
Saagar Enjeti
Over his wall, get outta here.
- [12:01]
Krystal Ball
This is why, you know, people get mad at me about targeting old people. Sorry. All right. Like, you know, you can't be having these people up there at the top for decades. This is what happens. I'm not gonna continue to go down that road. But the point that demonstrates is how weak they are. And I made this point yesterday where I actually think a lot of people should be really mad. I mean, they immiserated tens of millions of people completely imm. Millions of people.
- [12:25]
Saagar Enjeti
Do you know how many people they got Nothing.
- [12:27]
Krystal Ball
I mean, I told you that story. I was at the grocery store and this lady is like, you know, going through a wallet. She's talking about being furloughed. Cause they asked, hey, can you donate to the food bank? She's like, I need a donation because I'm furloughed. I can barely afford these groceries. I was, you know, the food banks around here are going crazy. I know so many people who are furloughed. You screwed them for nothing. And you got the same deal. You melted down air travel. Millions of people had to do. You know, look, you know, I don't cry for the consultant business class, but it's not. Not, you know, sometimes people have to fly home for funerals or for weddings. You know, I've seen people. I've seen brides get stuck during cancellations. It's horrible. All right, so, like, you can't be doing this to people when you are going to. You took the same deal, which was on the table three weeks ago. And by the way, my insurance is still high and so is yours. Right? So it's like nothing changed.
- [13:13]
Saagar Enjeti
I literally got nothing. No, I was. I was at the Y with my son and there was a lady at the counter who was like, you know, I have to cancel my membership. Can I get last month back? I'm furloughed. It's like, yeah, I mean, you screwed with people's lives. And for what? For the Same thing you could have gotten on day one. I mean, it really is. It's enraging. And I know we're not the only ones who feel that way. I mean, I genuinely think, like, there was already a lot of, like, Dem Tea Party energy, a lot of takes out there that are like, that's it. Grant Blattner will be the next senator for Maine. Like, those types of candidates who demonstrate that they are actually committed to a fight and are willing to say, chuck Schumer is out, there is no way in hell I'm voting for Chuck Schumer as leader again. Those are the type of candidates who are going to succeed. If Chuck Schumer is behind you, which he is behind Janet Mills, he is behind Haley Stevens. There are other candidates, other sort of, like, centristy candidates that he is backing, whether publicly or more surreptitiously. That is a mark of shame for those candidates. And people are going to look at that negatively in a Democratic primary and vote for their opponents simply because they are disposable, Disgusted, they feel betrayed. They're horrified by this continued demonstrated weakness coming from the Democrats. And lo and behold, the one thing they supposedly got, which again, had been on the table from the beginning, is a vote sometime in December on the ACA subsidies. Well, it's a vote in the Senate. There's no guarantees that the House is even gonna take it up. And Mike Johnson yesterday confirmed what all of us with three brain cells could see, which is that they're not gonna take it up. He says, no, I'm not gonna commit to a vote in the stuff. Let's take a listen to that.
- [14:56]
Krystal Ball
We'd like to bring back to the table because that will actually solve the problem and not just subsidize insurance companies. So you're not committing to bringing up a bill that deals with the Obamacare subsidies before they expire? I'm not committing to it. Or not committing to it. What I'm saying is that we do a deliberative process. That's the way this always works. And we have to have time to do that, and we will, in a bipartisan fashion.
- [15:15]
Saagar Enjeti
Sounds like something Trump would say. I'm not committing to it. I'm not committing to it. I mean, they're not going to vote on it because he doesn't want to put his people on the record if he doesn't have to, because it'd be unpopular to vote against this. But they also don't actually want to pass the subsidies. So this is all thoroughly, completely predictable. And speaking of the backlash and how widespread. I mentioned Ezra Klein, like Jonathan Shay, near Tan, like really ideologically broad spectrum of liberals and lefties who are furious at the Democratic Party right now. There are a few exceptions, but they are pretty lonely voices at this point. Yesterday, the ladies of the view were taking the Democratic Party to task as well. Let's go ahead and take a listen a little of that.
- [15:55]
Krystal Ball
I want an opposition party. I think the Democrats caved. I think the Democrats let down the American people. And like you, Whoopi, I have absolutely no faith that the Republican Party will come to the negotiating table in good faith. You know, you do something like this, shame on you. The first time you do it twice, three times, four times. Shame on me. Shame on the Democrats for even believing that the, the Republicans will even vote on it. There's no guarantee in this new deal that there's going to be a vote. There's no even commitment to have a vote. So the bottom line is the Democrats went into this after a blue wave out of the American people saying we do want the opposition, the working people want the Democratic Party to fight for them. And now they just caved and surrendered. I think Chuck Schumer, his days are over. If he cannot put that. If he cannot keep his caucus together. If he cannot keep his caucus together, he needs to go.
- [16:57]
Saagar Enjeti
A number of Democrats in the House at least have come out and called for Chuck Schumer to go. Rashida Tlaib being one of those voices, obviously, we talked to Ro Khanna yesterday, who was the first of those voices. So kudos to him for showing some leadership there. I could put a five up on the screen. I think there's roughly eight Democratic members of the House who have come out and said that Schumer needs to go. Unfortunately, not a single senator, including Bernie Sanders, was asked about it yesterday. He expressed, you know, his differences of opinion with Chuck Schumer, but refused to call for him to step aside from leadership. So very disappointing that there's no senators, Democratic senators who are willing to listen to their own voters about the direction that the party should go in and, you know, allowing it to continue to be led by a guy who can't even say whether or not he voted for the Democratic senior nominee in New York City is pretty pathetic. At the same time, let's put a six up on the screen. Apparently, internally, tons of recrimination. This complete BS Dems go Ballistic over Senate Shutdown deal. You had Moveon come out as well and say Schumer should resign. This is about these Internal Dem party text message chains where people were just losing it over this deal. We can put next one up on the screen, a 7. It's being called a complete betrayal. This is about the 2026 Democrats who were all uniformly slamming the shutdown deal. And as we mentioned before, the most vulnerable senators, people like Jon Ossoff who are up this year, they voted against the deal because the politics of voting for this thing are trash. And so even they had Roy Cooper was the candidate that you see there, who's moderate governor of North Carolina. He's certainly no lefty. Even he was critical of this deal. In Maine you had both Graham Platner and Janet Mills who were critical of it. All three of the main the Senate candidates in the Michigan Democratic primary were critical of it and some went even further. Let's go ahead and listen to Graham Platner put out video again calling for Schumer to resign. Let's listen to that.
- [19:00]
Krystal Ball
This happened because Chuck Schumer failed in his job yet again because they do not understand that when we fight, we win. When we hold the line for working families, for working people, we win. But they don't get this. They see all of this as a game. These are just numbers on a sheet of paper, not people's lives. We need to elect leaders that want to fight. We need to elect leaders that care about people that care about the actual outcomes of policies. Call your Congress people, call your senators and tell them that Chuck Schumer can no longer be leader. Call your congressman and tell them that they cannot vote for this when it comes to them on Wednesday. We need to fight back. But sadly, until we elect more Democrats that understand that fighting is what we need to do, we're going to find ourselves in this position over and over and over, over.
- [19:58]
Saagar Enjeti
Look, I think this is going to be a litmus test for the a bunch of Senate candidates this year. And you know, this will be fuel on the fire of that anti establishment Democratic Party base backlash. Long overdue by the way, in my opinion. But you know, the level of disgust they already had with Democratic leadership is going to be just like, you know, multiplied by tenfold by this betrayal. And they haven't forgotten the fact that in the first opportunity to use their leverage and force a shutdown that they just didn't even bother. They haven't forgotten about the fact that they've just seemed to be weak kneed and pathetic all the way along. And then you get one thing, finally, okay, they're gonna fight a little bit and then instantly cave At a time when the Democratic Party is riding high, when they should be feeling a lot of momentum and sense of, okay, we're doing something, we're fighting. People see that we're gonna move into the midterms, we're well positioned. Instead, you've just sucked all the wind out of the sails of the party after what was monumental victories last year.
- [20:59]
Krystal Ball
You definitely have. I do wonder, though, if it actually helps a lot of these candidates because they can run against the party establishment. That was part of what made the Tea Party actually successful, is they weren't running as Republicans. They were running against the Republican and the Democratic establishment, which is what people were mad about. So I actually would be happy if I were a Glenn Platner because he's already said he doesn't support Schumer. So it's like this only emboldens.
- [21:19]
Saagar Enjeti
Oh, it definitely benefits them politically.
- [21:21]
Krystal Ball
I actually think the insurgent candidates. This is a good thing. I turned off news altogether.
- [21:28]
Saagar Enjeti
I hate to say it, but I.
- [21:30]
Krystal Ball
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [21:35]
Saagar Enjeti
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [21:40]
Krystal Ball
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America. Military life isn't predictable, but earning your master's degree can be. With American Military University's 40 + flexible online master's programs, you can stay mission ready while you get market ready. Learn anywhere, anytime, with an education built to keep pace, steady, reliable and always accessible. Plus, military service members, veterans and their families can save up to 45% on master's tuition with AMU's special rates and grants. Learn more at AMU Apus Edu Steady through every mission.
- [22:25]
Saagar Enjeti
Every holiday shopper's got a list. But Ross shoppers, you've got a mission.
- [22:29]
Krystal Ball
Like a gift run that turns into.
- [22:30]
Saagar Enjeti
A disco, snow globe, throw pillows and.
- [22:32]
Krystal Ball
PJs for the whole family, dog included. At Ross, holiday magic isn't about spending more, it's about giving more for less. Ross, work your magic. I do think one of the things though that this does demonstrate is how ill conceived I think the shutdown was from the Democratic side in the first place because as you and I discussed, like, it wasn't really about healthcare, right? Like that's not what most people were up in arms about. At the end of the day, only 7% of people are even affected by Obamacare premiums. It's just not that many people like in the grand Scheme of things. That's not the ultimate problem with health insurance. You know, health insurance's number one problem is cost. People were mad about Trump for a whole host of reasons. I think, you know, healthcare premium was like number 50. They decided to kind of make that a lynch pin. And to their credit, we're sitting here talking about it. So it definitely kind of worked.
- [23:20]
Saagar Enjeti
But you know, it definitely reframed the conversation.
- [23:22]
Krystal Ball
It reframed the conversation about healthcare. But you know, if you read the centrist arguments, they're like, can you anyone point to me how the shutdown would have worked out better? And I was like, you know, the one thing they have going for them is that because they put their whole strategy just on healthcare, they didn't really have like a fulsome nature of ass. And this is on Schumer and on leadership too. And this kind of gets to where the Platners and others, like when they come into office. You also have to professionalize what it is you're asking for, right? So I mean, by the way, I also think that many of the asks and the so called whims were lame as hell. Like they were like, oh, no more riffs. You know, like government employees. Like, I'm sorry. Like nobody gives a shit about government employees getting fired. Like no one. Yes, healthcare. Like I just said, it's only 7% of people who are on the Obamacare exchanges. Most of them are elderly or small business business owners. Like you're myself not exactly the most tender demographic politically. They needed something real and maybe something not even necessarily attainable, but stuff that actually got to the heart of what people are very upset about with Trump. But I mean, this is part of the failure you and I have talked about. Like with Venezuela, right? Like if I were designing something, I'd be like, no, invasion of Venezuela. Right? That's in part of the deal. If I were a Democrat, what are people most upset about? ICE and stuff like that? I'll put some writers in there and be like, we're not signing shit until there is some actual agreement on behavior of ICE or border patrol. Like the stuff that people are really mad about. This is where I think the Republicans did a better job in some of their shutdowns, where they got to the heart of what people were pissed about. Like it became a line. 2013, the big shutdown. It was over DACA. Like that was it. Immigration was the number one issue. Remember Boehner suing Obama in court about, like that was what the entire thing was about. That gave people a Real reason to fight. It's also why the cave wasn't really as much as a cave as this one. So this is really, I think, an indictment of the Democratic establishment for trying to pick a poll tested thing to fight on and not coming to terms with, like, what are we mad about at the Trump administration? And this gets to, you know, establishment failure too. And even the heart really of it, like, at the end of the day, these people are fighting to subsidize insurance companies. This is why I can't get past with ACA premiums. Like, look, you know, my in laws. Insurance went 1800 to 4200. That's horrible. It's devastating. But, you know, 1800 was also a shitload of money. And the money's coming from us paying health insurance companies who are continuing to jack up prices. That's, you know, I don't know. I can't really get past that. I guess, like they needed something concrete. What's the base mad about? Put those five things down on a list. We all come together, we at least kind of agree on some of them. We gotta get three out of five before we do anything.
- [25:55]
Saagar Enjeti
I think the base just wanted to see them fight. Yeah, you know, I don't think they cared that much about the details. I just think they wanted to see Trump get punched in the nose, which he was last week in the elections for sure. And then it's after that. That's the moment when, in spite of the fact you got literally nothing in terms of a concession, that's the moment that you're gonna decide to cave. I mean, I think that's the part people just cannot get past. And so, you know, I have been saying this from the beginning too, of like, like, you know, what's really animating the Democratic base is a lot of Trump's just like, you know, insane authoritarian overreach. The masked agents in the streets, the National Guard deployments, those sorts of things that really gets the core of what the base is concerned about. Leadership has been very squeamish about pushing back on any of that. You know, they've always, from the beginning, oh, this is a. The Epstein files is a distraction. Oh, talking about Kilmar Abrego Garcia is a distraction. Talking about National Guard in the streets is a distraction. We need to just talk about egg prices and that's it and nothing else. And, you know, the few. I think that strategy has proven incorrect. And I think that the, you know, the American people have been pretty horrified by a lot of the abuses that they have seen. And these things, you know, they go together. You don't have to only talk about the economy or only talk about the abuses. You can talk about the way that Trump has basically seized the power of a king. That's why the no Kings protests were so, you know, so appealing to people and made a lot of sense to people that he's favoring the oligarchs over ordinary people. He's sending these thugs in to abuse ordinary American citizens. Meanwhile, he's denying you food stamp benefits and giving out taxes and cuts to the rich, et cetera. There is a coherent message there. But Democratic leadership is very afraid of talking about anything that has to do with that touches on crime whatsoever, that touches on immigration whatsoever. And so they've been very squeamish about that. So instead they picked this issue of the health care subsidies that they felt like would be a good wedge. And in a sense, it was. Republicans realize it's gonna be a problem for them when everybody's healthcare premiums skyrocket and they're stuck holding the bag. That is still the case. And the people I've seen online, they're like Tim Millers of the world from the Bulwark, who are making the case that actually Democrats won this fight, et cetera. That's what they're pointing to is basically like, look, they raised the salience of the issue of health care. It's a very good issue for Democrats. They did fantastic in the elections, in part because of the shutdown strategy. Republicans are gonna be on the record and have to own completely now, and everyone will know that they own the fact that healthcare premiums are skyrocketing. And there is something to that. Like, I don't think that it's that, like, Democrats politically did achieve some things out of this strategy, but Matt Stiller was making this point that I think is similar to what you're saying of effectively, the real issue with the shutdown strategy is that the Democratic Party apparatus doesn't really know what it wants. They were never really on the same page about, okay, what does victory look like in this? What is the resolution that we're actually aiming for here, how we're going to effectuate that outcome. And since they were sort of muddled and confused and on different pages, different people had different goals in the shutdown down. That's how it becomes easy to peel off these eight lame corporatist Democrats to get them ultimately to cave. So I think the party is really in a. It's in a transitional place right now. Right there is A true battle going on between the Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries way of doing business that has been rock solid in the Democratic Party for years and years. And these new insurgents. And the new insurgents definitely have the energy of the base of the party. Zoran Mamdani being emblematic of that. Graham being emblematic of that. Up in Maine. You've got a very close three way race now in Michigan right now between Abdul Al said and Mallory McMorrow who's kind of like, you know, progressive ish, but a little bit more mainstream. And then Haley Stevens who's the pick of Chuck Schumer, who's just like, you know, totally normal establishment type of Dem. So you have a battle going on right now within the Democratic Party and I don't think that they're going to be able to really solidify any sort of clear agenda until you get to like 20, 28. And you have this out in a Democratic primary and you have a new leader and someone who has some sort of Democratic legitimacy. One last, one last point. Let me put this up on the screen. We looked at some of these word clouds Yesterday. This is a 8. Just to underscore how the strategy really was putting pressure on the Republicans and very politically damaging for them right before the cave. So if you go back to October 9 through 13, you see, you ask people, okay, what negative things have you heard recently about Trump? It's all about shutdown and government and tariffs. The next week they ask again, still shut down government tariffs. The following week, it's ballroom, White House, East Wing destroying. And then November 1st through 3rd, you know, leading into the elections, it's shut down food stamps, snap government. So, you know, the Democratic messaging for the first time really, I think was, was breaking through. You know, this, these were the messages that wanted to. I think that's reality, reality thing.
- [31:07]
Krystal Ball
There's 42 million people who are on food stamps. Yeah, that's just a shitload of people. Like, you know, think about it. That's more people than work for the federal government. We sat here and talked about people who were furloughed. That's only 2 million people. This is 42 million. Literally 21 times the number. What is that? 1/7 of the entire United States? Like, that's crazy.
- [31:26]
Saagar Enjeti
I was looking at some polling from you guys and one of the questions was just like, are you on food stamps or someone in your family? And for people under 50k, it was 50%. Yeah.
- [31:37]
Krystal Ball
So there you go.
- [31:38]
Saagar Enjeti
Who either themselves were on food stamps or someone in their family? So they're taking like a direct hit. They're seeing personally what an impact it is. So. But in any case, you know, that's where things stood when they decided, like, let's just take a deal that gives us literally nothing.
- [31:53]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. You know, just thinking about it, again, broadly, I don't know. I think. I think one thing that is the problem in this fight with the split over who the party is, is you can overread. You know, like one of the things, like the centrists are totally convinced that they have won because of the Spanberger and Sheryl victories.
- [32:13]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [32:13]
Krystal Ball
The Mamdani people, like yourself, are also totally convinced that they've won. And I don't think really either are correct. I mean, you know, yes, you won some and then others won others, and neither vision has dominated at a national level for, like, who the party is. Right. And both are like, pretending that the other side doesn't. Well, actually the centrists are more pretending the left part doesn't exist. Buttigieg not congratulating Mamdani. Insane. Like, literally insane. I'm like, dude, like, what? He's a Democrat. Like, why can't you just be like, congratulations. I actually don't understand it or even remotely where it comes from. Kind of a. More of a secondary point, though, what you risk in the interim couple of years, though, is you don't really have a national brand of resistance or a vision for alternative, and that's how you lose. Even when you, let's say, have the shutdown fold. In some ways, a lot of Republicans can point to that and be like, look, Trump was an effective leader against the Democrats whenever they were all up. I mean, by the way, even in the elections, yes, I think the Democrats did very well. We're still talking about an off year 2025 election. The idea is some national referendum is ridiculous. Like a vast majority of people didn't even vote. And midterms is going to be much more voters still a much lower turnout election than what eventually comes in 2028. I've been thinking, I really think a lot of this is a victim of no primary after Biden. You know, it really is shocking to think how the Democrats have not been able to hash out their differences since 2020. And even that was kind of a rigged primary with COVID and with Obama coming in. So the last time there was like a real fight, it was 2016. So just watch. Watching how this all plays out, the cognitive dissonance between the two sides, I think that's the biggest consequence. And it does show you the ratifying and healing nature of democracy. One reason why Trump is lockstep is cuz he won like he won multiple times. 2016, he won the primary in 2024 and he got the popular vote. Like no Republican can credibly stand up and be like, actually my side is correct. Right. You have to defer to the leader. This rudderlessness, I think is really a real problem for them. And it also shows, I think, some of their risks going forward because they don't have the answers to the irreconcilable questions inside of their coalition. And both sides can be like, well, no, see, our guy won in New York and people in Virginia are like, well, we won in Virginia, we're not the same. This stuff needs to get hashed out at the national level.
- [34:29]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, for sure. But I would say I still think even if with the Democrats being lame and weak and sucking. Well, they were lame and weak and sucking going into these off year elections and they romped. I mean, it was maybe not a nationwide referendum just because of it being an off year election, but literally every race went Democrats, literally every, regardless of the state Supreme Court races In Pennsylvania, Proposition 50 in California, Virginia, New Jersey, Georgia, Mississippi, across the frigging board. And so I think that probably the cake is baked for a backlash election in 2027, even with the Democrats being like lame and not offering any kind of a vision. But you're absolutely right. I mean, this is what is being hashed out right now and it's gonna be hashed out in these primaries to come. I think you're already seeing it. And so to me, probably the biggest political legacy of this shutdown fight is just further enraging the Democratic base and radicalizing them against their own leadership. There's already been a lot of that. This I think is just fuel on the fire. And to your point, like the Graham Platners of the world, the Abdul Al Saids of the world, like the more renegade outsider candidates, this is going to inure to their benefit. So for the corporatist Democrats who caved thinking that this benefits their political worldview, I think they have only further alienated their own voters from the brand of politics that they espouse.
- [36:03]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I absolutely think that's correct. And I don't disagree on 2026, that's not real. I was more really talking about 2028 because there's no credible, like we won at a national level. That's what really, you know, that's Trump shut Everybody up in 2024. Not with the primary, but with the election. We were like, it's over, okay? It's maga. Like, it's period. It's done right, won the popular vote. There's no more if, ands or buts. Obama did the same with Hillary. He crushed her in the primary. It was just done. Like you can't, you can't really argue about it anymore. Hillary, I mean, in some ways kind of did it to Bernie in 2016. At the end of the day, she did win. I don't think she did a very good job and she didn't bring those people in, so a lot of them didn't come out to vote. But this just really shows me the power of actual Democratic politics. And that's a bigger indictment of the establishment. Not just about the shutdown, but like going back and the fact they've never really been battle tested, you know, over these last eight years. I think it's a real issue. I turned off news altogether.
- [37:03]
Saagar Enjeti
I hate to say it, but I.
- [37:04]
Krystal Ball
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [37:10]
Saagar Enjeti
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [37:14]
Krystal Ball
We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts next. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [37:29]
Saagar Enjeti
Every holiday shopper's got a list.
- [37:31]
Krystal Ball
But Ross shoppers, you've got a mission like a gift run that turns into.
- [37:34]
Saagar Enjeti
A disco, snow globe, throw pillows and.
- [37:36]
Krystal Ball
PJs for the whole family, dog included.
- [37:38]
Saagar Enjeti
At Ross, holiday magic isn't about spending more.
- [37:41]
Krystal Ball
It's about giving more for less. Ross, work your magic. Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained.
- [37:47]
Saagar Enjeti
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- [38:30]
Krystal Ball
Who is this man inspiring so many of these, in my opinion, shit libs in their own victories, despite the fact that again, in my opinion, some of the lamest people literally on the planet. How does a Mikey Sherrill win by 10 points in New Jersey. How, how is this even possible?
- [38:46]
Saagar Enjeti
Isn't it like, I think it was like 13, 13 points.
- [38:49]
Krystal Ball
Don't even get me started in a state that you can got lost by five points just a year ago. Literally a year ago. Well, this is how Trump is now floating some new proposals which his own administration says are totally fake. Many of them are flailing in response to affordability, which we'll remind you he also recently called a con job in an interview, including floating the so called 50 year mortgage, which we have a little bit more of. But now in an attempt to try and defend the tariff policy. And the tariff policy of course, which is under fire at the United States United States Supreme Court seems very likely to get shut down. He's floating something called a tariff dividend of $2,000. Let's take a listen. We're going to be bringing them down without tariffs. We would be, this country would be in such trouble as they were for many years. That's why we owe $38 trillion. And one of the things we're going to do, we're going to issue a dividend to our middle income people and lower income people of about $2,000 and we're going to use the remaining tariffs to lower our debt for the last several months. Eggs, gas, dinner costs for Thanksgiving, way down. But other things, as you noted, have gone up. Beef, coffee, auto repairs. Is this a voter perception issue of the economy or is there more that needs to be done by Republicans on Capitol Hill or done in terms of policy more than anything else? It's a con job by the Democrats. They're saying they just have a, you know, they put out something, say today costs are up. They feed it to the anchors of abc, CBS and NBC and a lot of other, and you know, cnn. It's a con job if you're, and I mean the Biden vibes here are just so strong. It's like every single time. What did Biden say? He said Republicans are lying about inflation. They're lying about grocery prices, they're lying about this. They would do similar things. They would float some bone dead, you know, idiot policy. Same thing. Like the tariff dividend, which again, look, we all know it's not gonna happen. They don't have the unilateral authority to just cut you a $2,000 check. If they did, every president would do it. Not everyone, but a lot of them would have done it or they would've tried to do it in the past. Yeah, you need Congress. Oh, Congress is gonna do a $2,000 dividend check. No, it's not happening. And so they're flailing, completely flailing about here. And this is where I think MAGA has a sickness. Now I just talked about how Trump, he won popular vote and so he took over the Republican party. But part of the sickness is nobody can speak out about an obvious drubbing in the election. Cuz all Trump has to say is it was a shutdown and I wasn't on the ballot. It's like, yeah, true dude, but you're never gonna be on the ballot again. Okay? So all the other people who still have to have a career in politics need some flexibility and freedom. Well, what happens, you have one Republican literally once who's talking about cost of living. Marjorie Taylor Greene, and now he's attacking her. I'm not gonna go too much into it, cuz you guys are gonna cover it tomorrow. And it really is kind of a separate conversation. But think about it like in terms of MAGA media, there is nobody out there at a prominent MAGA level. From Fox News, Ben Shapiro, the Blaze. I mean, who else am I thinking of who can honestly admit that shit is bad right now economically for a lot of people. There's just not that many of them, they stay silent and then they'll do their show on some woke left. You know what I'm saying? It's like, guys, this is so boring at this point. Your shtick is over. And so after an election like this, they need to come down and just be like, this is a huge problem. Like this is a massive signal boost. People are pissed about affordability. We need to come up with a set of issues. We're already probably going to lose in the midterm elections if we have any chance of building on some sort of legacy of 2024. You gotta win back some of these votes. Voters, let's look at the cross tabs and say, hey, what went wrong? Where? What can we fix? No Republican is capable of saying that nationally. And it's because of Trump. Cause Trump will attack them from the national pulpit. He said, Marjorie, oh, she's lost her way. Marjorie's lost her way. But Lindsey Graham hasn't, who we're doing fundraising for. Okay, okay. I mean, yeah, I mean, listen, what's the signal? The signal is if you kiss his ass no matter what, even though you were an ideological opponent, whatever, doesn't matter as long as you're fealty to him, him personally, that's the only thing that you're allowed to do. You're not allowed to speak up about the issues that you see that are out there. Even, you know, Tucker, look, you know, a lot of the war is over. Israel, frankly, a lot of the war also, though, is over. You know, he did that episode with Charlie Kirk right around the time, a couple weeks before Charlie died. The whole episode by Charlie was about economics and young people. And he said young people are feeling hopeless affordability. A lot of it was about zoron, actually. You should go back and watch it if you're interested, because frankly, those were two of the only people in the entire apparatus who were even willing to talk like that without sounding like, you know, that they were Democrats or something. And that's what I see out in the landscape right now. It's truly a sickness in the party and in MAGA media. MAGA media even more so because this party is very downstream of a lot of Internet posters and podcast people and they had just, they have their heads so far up their ass whenever it comes to these issues.
- [43:54]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean, there's two lanes. And this is something Emily has mentioned before of part of the appeal of Nacvuentes is that there is really there are very few venues for Trump criticism that aren't like liberal or leftist.
- [44:08]
Krystal Ball
That's very true.
- [44:09]
Saagar Enjeti
And so, you know, you've got these a number of dynamics, but one of them being that most of MAGA media is just grotesquely sycophantic in a pathetic and embarrassing boomer cringe kind of a way. And so, you know, if the only guy, one of the only guys who's saying critical things from the right also happens to be a neo Nazi. And then, by the way, you also have this whole censorship regime of like, if you say anything against Israel, you're literally an anti Semite. That's part of what is fueling the rise of Nick Fuentes within the Republican Party and why he is such a potent force with young men in the party in particular. But Sagra, you're selling our Dear Leader short. He does have some really important ideas for how to deal with things like housing affordability. Yesterday we mentioned his brilliant, genius idea for a 50 year mortgage loan. Even Laura Ingraham was not really buying this one. Let's take a listen to that.
- [45:04]
Krystal Ball
Your housing director has proposed something that has enraged your MAGA friends, which is this 50 year mortgage idea. So a significant MAGA backlash, calling it a giveaway to the banks and simply.
- [45:17]
Saagar Enjeti
Prolonging the time it would take for.
- [45:19]
Krystal Ball
Americans to own a home outright. Is that really A good idea. It's not even a big deal. I mean, you know, you go from 40 to 50 years and what it means is you pay. You pay something less from 30 that some people had a 40 and then now they have a 50. All it means is you pay less per month. You pay it over a longer period of time. It's not like a big factor. It might help a little bit, but the problem was that Biden did this. He increased the interest rates and I have a lousy Fed person who's going to be gone in a few months.
- [45:49]
Saagar Enjeti
It's not even a big deal.
- [45:50]
Krystal Ball
It's not a big deal. Also, did everybody notice? He doesn't even know how long a normal mortgage is? You said it was 40 years. Yes. Okay. You know, we don't all have specialized banking instruments from Goldman Sachs on our commercial real estate properties. Most of us are dealing with the shithead mortgage brokers at whatever. A bank or rocket mortgage, you know, that you're lucky enough to even get if you can qualify for one. Yeah, I mean, this is like, remember what was it? Wasn't it Dan Quayle who didn't know how much a gallon of milk cost? No, I'm thinking of George H.W. bush, how he was like mystified at a grocery store checkout counter because he hadn't seen barcode scanners. This was in the 80s.
- [46:23]
Saagar Enjeti
But the point the whales thing was not knowing how to spell potato.
- [46:25]
Krystal Ball
Potato. You're right. Yeah, sorry.
- [46:27]
Saagar Enjeti
That was his humiliation moment.
- [46:28]
Krystal Ball
But yeah, hw and that image went viral in whatever 1990s terms. Why? Because they were like, this man is so rich and so old. He literally has not been to a grocery store in like 25 years. This stuff matters. I mean, we talked yesterday about the White House. These things, the symbols, you know, they strike at the heart of how out of time touch a person can be. I also think what it gets to is. I've said this before too. I remember about Biden. Biden would do something very similar where a year or so in office, he would still talk about January 6th and he would talk about Trump. Well, Trump is now in the same boat. It's November 11th, dude. I don't wanna hear about Biden anymore. Does anybody else? One of the nice things I like about America is when a guy like Biden sells off, we're all just like, who? Like, we get temporary amnesia. We're like, who are you talking about? Because what we expect is that when a new guy, government comes into power. Yeah, you can blame Biden for A couple of months after that you own it. Especially now at this point, especially with the way that you dominate media. So I see that where he blames Biden interest rates, I mean, I don't think he's wrong to blame a lot of the actions of the Federal Reserve. But as we demonstrated yesterday, interest rates alone are not the issue. It's price. Prices are 50% higher than they were six years ago. That's the whole ball game. It's all supply. Then we have all these boomers with massively appreciated assets. Average first time home buyer today is 40 years old. The average person who's like looking at a house I believe is in their 60s in terms of their ability to offer cash. There's no incentives whenever it comes to first time home buyers, even if there are some modest mortgage interest or whatever doesn't remotely make up for the fact that wages have not kept up place. That's it. There's literally nothing else to say about it. All you have to do is attend hack supply. You need to throw a Manhattan level project level of stuff at it. There's no other way, simply. And yet we're all just, you know, working around the edges. And this is what's leading to the doomerism for a lot of people who are much younger. I was just looking, you know, I put some tweet out about boomers, don't get it. And of course, you know, a vast majority of boomers are like, well I graduated in 1985. I was like, yeah, well in 1985 the average first time home buyer was 29 years old. Today it's 40. Okay, so things have radically changed. Median income relative to buyer. There's no comparing the world.
- [48:43]
Saagar Enjeti
The median age of a home buyer now is 59 years old.
- [48:46]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. We can't live like this. I mean it distorts the whole market. We talked yesterday about developers and supply side. So if all the rich people are old, what do you do? You build houses for rich people and for old people, that's who you're going to cater your market. It's basic economic. You have to have some sort of intervention. A 50 year mortgage turns you into a permanent renter to the bank and also makes you somebody who's paying. You know, what was the example that we gave? It was like compared to a 30 year, they would pay a quarter mil in interest, but compared to a 50 year, they're paying a million, a million dollars for like a $500,000 home. Over the lifetime of Your mortgage. I saw a hilarious tweet where there was an old man like in a diner and he's like, he's owned this place for 49 years and somebody said he's only got one more year to pay it off. He's like 80 years old. Can you imagine that? Like if you buy a house in your 30s, you're 80 years old and you might pay it off. And let's say you move after eight years, which the average person does whenever they have it, you're gonna have zero equity after closing costs. You're gonna be flipped upside down like most people. You know how most people are upside down on their car loans? You're gonna start having people negative equity in their home loans. That's what the net result of a 50 year mortgage. That's exactly what happened.
- [49:59]
Saagar Enjeti
You're exactly right. Well, and it's also, it's, you know, for a guy who's supposed to be like this post liberal president is the most neoliberal idea you could possibly come up with. Like we're, it's a market based solution, you know, like we're not going to actually do anything to help you or like, you know, actually come in and shape the market. So the more housing is being built, we're just going to make it so that banks can bilk you for even more interest and you can be even more in debt than you already are. So yeah, there's a reason why that idea was panned across the board. I actually want to play next B6, which is Scott Besant speaking of the $2,000 idea, which is a complete and total fantasy. Besant really gives away the game here because he's asked like, okay, so what form is that going to come in? Let's go ahead and take a Look. This is B6. Let's listen to this.
- [50:47]
Krystal Ball
The $2,000 dividend could come in lots of forms in lots of ways. George, it could be just the tax decreases that we are seeing on the President's agenda. No tax on tips, no tax on O overtime, no tax on Social Security deductibility of auto loans. So you know, those are substantial deductions that are being financed in the tax bill. Because of all the extra tax revenue, there isn't more room to get checks back to people.
- [51:17]
Saagar Enjeti
So when people hear that, what's the reality of it? When do you think that people would.
- [51:21]
Krystal Ball
Get these $2,000 checks in the mail from the White House from this plan? Well, again, it will have to be passed by Congress. But the reality is just the this, that because of Biden's inflation, which averaged 5% over four years, that people on average lost about 30 $400 in purchasing power, and they've gained about 1200 this year. But there's still room to go. And so we're making up ground fast, but the fact is that people are still down about $2,000 relative to what their purchasing power was when Joe Biden took office. And so we understand that people feel like there's an affordability problem, but we're closing the gap fast. And with these policies and potentially, you know, rebate checks, we might close the whole. The whole gap really, really fast.
- [52:02]
Saagar Enjeti
Okay, really fast.
- [52:03]
Krystal Ball
But you're not. You won't say exactly when, whether that's Q1 of next year. Not me, not yet.
- [52:09]
Saagar Enjeti
Okay, so you've got Besson saying, like.
- [52:13]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, it'll show up as a deduction.
- [52:15]
Saagar Enjeti
If you think about it, you've already gotten $2,000 stimulus. If you really think about it in the right way. You know, we did that whole tax cut thing and mostly went to the. The rich, but some of it, little tiny shreds of it might have gone to you. No tax on tips. That. That could be the form. And then you have Hassett, who's like, well, let's talk about Joe Biden. You know, economics were bad under him and, like, maybe low key. The $2,000 that you're going to get is in theoretical increased purchasing power from lower inflation. So, you know, that it demonstrates to you just how real of an idea it is. And has it even said, like, look, actual checks would have to go through Congress.
- [52:52]
Krystal Ball
So that's what I said. All right. I mean, look, the whole thing is a farce. Yes. Oh, you're gonna get it. It's kind of like the way they did Social Security, where they technically made Social Security tax free by making it tax eligible, like on your. In terms of your deduction. It's too complicated to explain, but the basics is 88% of people get Social Security. They get it when they file their taxes. In terms of being tax free, it's not that they. They get like less of a check or more of a check, if that makes sense. So this is the similar way where they always are trying to play with it. And it just reminds me, I mean, for all of the talk about moving back Paul Ryan, one of my big brain moments where I was like, holy shit, these people are so out of touch is I was dragged to this meeting with Paul Ryan. I guess it was like 2017. He sat back in his chair. And he was like, as a result of our tax legislation, the average American will save 700, and that is enough to remodel their kitchen. And I was like, $780 a year. And I was like, that's what you're sitting here bragging to me about? I was like, what a joke. I was like, these people are done. They're going to lose. And that's exactly what happened. That's what he said. First of all, it's not enough to remodel kitchen. All right. I don't even know if he's going to buy a sink.
- [54:02]
Saagar Enjeti
All right, Maybe you can get some new hardware on the cabinets.
- [54:04]
Krystal Ball
It was 2017. It was 2017. So I guess there was less inflation. But even at that time, I didn't own a hose. It was like living in a shithole apartment. But even at that time, I was like, I don't think that's enough to remodel, I'm pretty sure. But that's the level of discourse that these people all try to fall back on. I don't know. It's pathetic. It's genuinely pathetic. And it also shows how out of touch they are, really, with consumer sentiment, something that we've been flagging here. We used to flag it a lot under the Biden administration. You can do it now, too. The University of Michigan survey, brutal toll for the way that people feel about the economy. B5. Let's take a listen. This is consumer sentiment, the current conditions. Consumer sentiment could be the current conditions or it could be future expectations. We're looking at current conditions. And get this. According to the University of Michigan, we are dealing with the worst ever. The worst ever view of current conditions dating all the way back since 1951. This is record breaking in the way you don't want to be breaking records. And get this, Kate, it is down 30%. Consumer sentiment of current conditions down 30% from January when Donald Trump took office. But take a look here. Trump blame. Trump's policies have worsened economic conditions in America. Look at this. We're dealing with a super majority here. We're talking about more than three in five Americans, 61%, who say that Trump's policies have worsened economic conditions. And how about worsened your own finances? Again, we're dealing with a majority here. 51% of Americans say that Trump's policies have worsened your own finances. This is double trouble for the President of the United States. I decide to look at pure, pure independence. Those who don't lean towards either side. And look at this disapprove of Trump on the economy. Among pure independents, we're talking about 4 in 5, 4, 5. 79%. I'm laughing because you rarely ever see a number this high. 79% of pure independents disapprove of Trump on the economy. How about this? This is no outlier, Kate. This is no outlier because look at Marquette University, their law school. 76% of pure independents disapprove of Trump on the economy. When you put it all together with the approval ratings, it averages out to a net approval rating on the economy. Among pure independents of. Get this. Minus 58 points. What a disaster. There's like, no, there's barely even words to bring all of that together. So good luck. You're Joe Biden now. That's basically the same numbers that were racking up in 2021. We covered it here day in and day out. They lost their way. What happened after that? They became laser focused on you. Oh, they became laser focused on a foreign war. They were seen as duplicates, doing not enough for people who were at home. They seemed like they were out of touch, old and focusing on the wrong things and then trying to dominate on some cultural issues. Shall we all remember how that all played for the election?
- [57:05]
Saagar Enjeti
It's just like napping in the ocean. The script is written during a press conference.
- [57:09]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, same shit. I mean, the script is written, by the way. It's actually similar sycophantic dynamics. The king was obviously, you know, Biden was obviously decrepit and dementia ridden by 2021, if not even whenever he ran. Nobody could say it. If you did, you were a conspiracy theorist. Well, this time around with Trump, it's like, if you say even anything, even moderate, like MTG about, hey, I think we should focus a little bit on prices, you get excised like the Dean Phillips of the world or any of the other Democrats who tried to originally. And then eventually, sometime around mid-2027, in the middle of the election, everyone can start to say the truth out loud and there will be a civil war. And at that point, what do you think's gonna happen? You know, it's the same shit literally all over again.
- [57:54]
Saagar Enjeti
You know, of all those numbers that we. That Harry Anton put up there, the one that really struck me the most is where it said, a majority of people actually say, Trump's economic plan has directly hurt me. Yeah, because a lot of times you'll have a negative sense overall of the economy, but people will say, but I'm actually doing okay there. You had very little Discrepancy between the percent who were saying. Saying Trump's policies have made the economy worse and the percent that said Trump's policies have made my life worse. Directly my economic situation worse. So when you have a majority who are feeling that direct impact. Yeah, that is political.
- [58:31]
Krystal Ball
Well, he tied himself to the tariffs. He made it. I mean, he keeps. The economy was his number one thing when he ran, obviously. And then two, he tied himself directly to the tariffs. People either felt the problems with the tariffs or they feel the general chaos with their stock portfolios or anything. I mean, if you look, you and I run a business for that entire Liberation Day period, we were like, no big expenses like at our company. How many other people are like that? I'm sure there's a ton. Look at the job market. There's a ton of people who are like, man, between AI and the government and all this other nonsense, not hiring or we're firing, we're just. We're spending no big money. Projects which originally may have been greenlit or not being green lit. This stuff cascades throughout the whole US Economy. And, you know, home price prices flat or high. Mortgage rates flat, basically not that much lower than they were. Electric bills. Electric bills going into winter, higher. I mean, genuinely, economically, what's all that different from last year? I can't think of. If anything, it's worse. If you look at all the private data, by the way, when the shutdown ends and we actually get some of those numbers, bls, it's gonna be bad. I was just looking. Adp, you know, just this morning, put out a new. Put out a new report, which here, let me just pull it up very quickly, but ADP just had a payroll report that came out, I think maybe like an hour ago or so which showed the exact similar types of losses in terms of payroll. So it's not good. It's really all of the data points. Same with Biden. He wasn't singularly focused on it. To most people, it's quite obvious Trump cares more about some bullshit Nobel Peace Prize nonsense.
- [60:07]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, you have the insult to injury of Trump, too, throwing these opulent.
- [60:12]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, that's part of it too.
- [60:13]
Saagar Enjeti
At Mar a Lago and building out his East Wing and redecorating his marble bathroom and whatever. So you have not only are not focused on me, but you are living this lavish, Great Gatsby, roaring twenties opulent lifestyle in all of our faces and giving away the store to a bunch of billionaires.
- [60:37]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [60:47]
Saagar Enjeti
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [60:51]
Krystal Ball
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBA NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [61:06]
Saagar Enjeti
Every holiday shopper's got a list.
- [61:08]
Krystal Ball
But Ross shoppers, you've got a mission like a gift run that turns into.
- [61:11]
Saagar Enjeti
A disco snow globe, throw pillows and.
- [61:13]
Krystal Ball
PJs for the whole family, dog included. At Ross, holiday magic isn't about spending more. It's about giving more for less. Ross, work your magic.
- [61:23]
Saagar Enjeti
No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is.
- [61:27]
Krystal Ball
Happening now through November 22nd.
- [61:29]
Saagar Enjeti
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like.
- [61:32]
Krystal Ball
Mac and Too Faced.
- [61:33]
Saagar Enjeti
Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.
- [61:53]
Krystal Ball
Turning now to Ghislaine Maxwell. There, of course, was a big pause in any potential vote on the Epstein files in the United States Con 54 days they stayed out of session, including refusing to swear in a new Democratic member of the House because she would have signed a discharge petition to force a vote on said Epstein files, Adelita Grijalva. She has now officially traveled here to Washington, D.C. to be sworn in and will probably be signing this petition very shortly. Here's what she had to say.
- [62:21]
Saagar Enjeti
So it looks like I'm going to get sworn in this week. After seven weeks of waiting. I almost can't believe it's true. I am really upset that one of the first votes that I will take is on a bill that does nothing for affordable health care for the American people. And I also have to say that we have to do something to make sure that one person can't silence the voices of 813,000 people. This can never happen again to another member elect that is waiting in the wings because someone doesn't want to do their job or because they're playing politics.
- [62:56]
Krystal Ball
So that was Adelita Grijalva. She won that special election. Mike Johnson and KRU decided not to swear her in again largely because of the Epstein situation. And at the very same time, we're getting some very, very troubling details from a whistleblower inside of the federal prison system. Let's go and put this up here on the screen. This is from The Jeffrey Epstein case regarding Ghislaine Maxwell and her current club Fed treatment. Now, according to a whistleblower who has approached the United States Congress, they are saying that Maxwell has received what was described as, quote, concierge style treatment at the minimum security prison camp she was transferred to, including customized meals, permission to go to exercise after hours, time to play with a puppy that was being trained by an inmate to become a service dog, among other things. So you could see that is a little bit interesting. The whistleblower, by the way, also claims that a top official at the prison camp complained he is, quote, sick of having to be Maxwell's bitch.
- [63:58]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, I mean, fair, fair.
- [64:00]
Krystal Ball
It's objectively crazy. You're running a federal prison camp. Most of the inmates are fraudsters. White collar criminals. They're white collar criminals. You're not even. You're not even allowed in this prison. If you're a sex offender like Ghislaine Maxwell, if you're a murderer or whatever, you must. There's something called a point system. I was doing some research in the federal prison system. Like, you need a very, very low number number of like, points like violent crime and all that usually keeps you out. A place like a federal prison camp. Pedophiles and all that, they're not allowed in there either. It's a very specific type of inmate. It's kind of a cushy place. That's why it is what it is. And they have a lot of. They have a lot of, like, leeway. There's not as many guards, a lot of them, you know, they can smuggle food in or whatever. Like, people kind of look the other way. So when Ghislaine shows up here, these guys are not. First of all, it's a type of inmate who's not even supposed to be there. But then second, there's obviously pressure from somewhere about her treatment inside of this prison camp. So if a top prison official is saying, I'm tired of being her bitch, somebody is telling him, you have to be her bitch. Who is that person? Is it in the DOJ at the Bureau of Prisons? You know all of this, by the way. I mean, the Bureau of Prisons, are we all gonna forget was the entity which oversaw the suicide released the video, if you wanna call it that, of the evidence, again, if you wanna call it they who covered up and did the investigation, you know, of the so called suicide, which there's a million holes to run through. So this stuff just stinks. I mean, the entire thing stinks.
- [65:26]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean, we know it comes from Trump. There's no mystery around it. We know she knows stuff he doesn't want out. She has all this power and leverage. You know, ever since she started getting her cushy treatment, guess what? The lease, the Wall Street Journal and everywhere else stopped. She got her prison transfer. She gets to hang out with her public. Another thing that they said here that was noteworthy is she gets to have more access with visitors who have computers so that she can have outside electronic communications against something that is completely barred and banned for any of the other inmates who committed much lesser crimes than she committed. So it's insane. It's straight up what's going on here. She has dirt on Trump or on his friends or all of the abides of that he doesn't want to be made public. And so, in effect, not only is this prison official her bitch, but Trump is her bitch. He's doing her bidding and getting her the special treatment. That's what's happening here. And by the way, she's also putting in her application for her sentence to be commuted. And Trump has been going on a pardon spree. Pardoned all these fake electors, part of the January 6th Stop the Steal bullshit. Just pardoned them. I saw someone else, the husband of this Republican representative just gotten pardoned this morning for some sort of healthcare fraud that he committed, by the way, as we're talking about healthcare. And so she's on the list for potential partner commutation. And every time he gets asked about it, he won't deny it, he won't rule it out whatsoever. So I think everyone should expect that that is a very likely outcome, especially when you see the details of the, the special treatment, the cushy concierge style treatment that she's receiving at this Club Fed.
- [67:14]
Krystal Ball
I don't think you can draw another conclusion at this point. It's like it just has to be some very high level people in the White House who are telling them this is the way that it all has to be treated. I mean, how else can you explain all of the changes in policy and the prison movement and now the top prison officials saying that she's treating me like her bitch? It's crazy, the commutation. I, I still, like, as corrupt as I believe things are and as crazy as I. Things are, the fact, like if, if he commuted her sentence, I, I have no. Can you even imagine, like the.
- [67:49]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes.
- [67:50]
Krystal Ball
The break.
- [67:50]
Saagar Enjeti
No, no, because I can imagine.
- [67:51]
Krystal Ball
No, no, no. I mean, the reaction. I'm not saying he, he wouldn't do it. I'm saying the reaction to that, it would confirm everything.
- [67:57]
Saagar Enjeti
But the reaction wild because MAGA has mostly shut up about this at this point.
- [68:03]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, but even that would be, I mean, I would hope it's a, it's a bridge too far. I did say that, you know, a lot of these people are sycophants and all of that, but, like, would we really all just sit here and allow something like that to go? I don't think so. But look, I could be wrong. I do want to say, I want to give a major shout out to Ryan Grimm, who, I mean, story after story from Ryan and from Mars over at drop site is just confirming beyond my wildest dreams when I laid out all of the Israel connections with Epstein. If I had this stuff, I would have been less careful in my language and like 100% I'm willing to just say it out loud. Let's put his story up here on the screen here. He had a block. You guys broke this down on the Friday show. But Epstein helped sell, helped Israel sell the surveillance state to Cote d', Ivoire, an African nation. And some of the allegations inside of the story are absolutely wild. They talk about his relationship with Eiyud Barak, about the sale of his military technology, about the daughter of this leader and how she herself was ensnared kind of within him. This is just one of the latest Epstein stories that they've dropped. They dropped previously one that also involved Africa. Israeli intelligence. He's got a new one actually out just this morning.
- [69:13]
Saagar Enjeti
Hold up. Israeli spy stayed for weeks at a time at Jeffrey Epstein's mansion. Leaked emails show Epstein working on a wire transfer to Ehud Barak's top aide Yoni Koren, who regularly stayed at his mansion. I'll read you the the leaks of this. So this is again Ryan and Maz. An Israeli military intelligence officer stayed at Jeffrey Epstein's Manhattan apartment on at least three occasions, including once in February 2013 while working as a senior aide to then Israeli Minister of Defense Ehud Barak. Yoni Koren made his intelligence career working in covert operations alongside the Mossad, remained a lieutenant colonel in reserve duty after he officially left the Intelligence Directorate. He stayed in Epstein's apartment again for two two weeks in October 2014 and a third time for 10 more days in September 2015. DropSite compiled evidence of these days from schedules released by the House Oversight Committee last month and Barack's hacked emails. On all three trips, Corn appeared to be conducting official or unofficial business. A Times of Israel article from late January 2013, a few weeks Before Corn's first documented stay identifies him as still actively serving as the bureau chief for the Israeli Ministry of Defense that month. And it goes on from there. But yeah, tldr this guy, Israeli military intelligence officer, high level senior aide to the Defense Minister, then Defense Minister of Israel, Ehud Barak, staying at Jeffrey Epstein's mansion on the Upper east side for two weeks at a time, you know, 10 days, two weeks while he's conducting business. I mean it's confirmed. Like it's confirmed he was an intelligent asset for Israel. Israel, period. Done dusted. We know now. And the other wild thing that we always bring up and I think really bears mentioning is, you know, Ryan and Maz, they're just going through things that have been publicly released now, either from the House Oversight Committee or from these, mostly from these hacked emails. This is all available to any news outlet who cares to look through them and do the reporting. And none of them do, none of them care to go through the email emails. None of them want to put this sort of information out in the public domain. And that is wild. That is incredibly revealing in and of itself.
- [71:25]
Krystal Ball
Again, I wish I had this six months ago when I was really like on a tour of it because like this is all I. This is actually what I needed, like the actual statecraft stuff behind the scenes of the nitty gritty on how you are a very useful person. One of the things also that always annoyed me is the assumption, you know, when we talked about intelligence asset was that they're being run by Israel or run by CIA. It's not like that. The point was, is that he had a blackmail scheme or who knows what exactly what he was doing behind the scenes. But he had access to a lot of sketchy money circles that was very convenient for huge numbers of intelligence agencies, power brokers, et cetera, with a lot of these Israeli public officials. And he used his influence behind the scenes here obviously to benefit the state of the of Israel. Four separate times documented that Ryan and Maaz have now shown us. I mean, what else do you want? How else would you describe that relationship? Right.
- [72:17]
Saagar Enjeti
We don't need anything else here straining the, you know, language and definitions.
- [72:22]
Krystal Ball
Exactly.
- [72:22]
Saagar Enjeti
Say that it's not what it is.
- [72:24]
Krystal Ball
It's just, it's open, it's shut. If this was any other person, if you just neutral said, here are four separate instances where he acted and used his private interest influence to benefit a foreign state. How would you describe that person who also was involved with like this trafficking ring and was also an extremely high net Worth individual under extremely suspicious circumstances. Come on. All right. I mean, it's like a movie character. It would be so obvious to any neutral observer. But yeah, I mean, this is where the mainstream press stuff and maga, I mean, they pretended to care. Nobody's caring anymore. They got them. Nobody retweets, nobody covers it all just is out in the open. Obviously. It's great, you know, where's the free press at? Yeah, well, they're interviewing Mossad. You remember that? Remember when she interviewed Mossad, Barry? And she was like, so was Epstein ever Mossad? And he was like, no, of course not, Barry. You know, it would never happen. You're like, okay, I'll take your word for it.
- [73:21]
Saagar Enjeti
I guess I'm enjoying the Colombian President, Pedro Gustavo Petro.
- [73:26]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [73:26]
Saagar Enjeti
Going after Trump on the Epstein front. And by the way, we just murdered some more random people out in the ocean. Two more boats were blown up. Claimed to be traffickers this time at least. Oh, in specific, it was for me at least.
- [73:37]
Krystal Ball
Not Venezuela. Yeah.
- [73:38]
Saagar Enjeti
At least for.
- [73:38]
Krystal Ball
Anyway, it's no longer in the loop. The Venezuela thing, I really. It has died down very recently. Kind of an interesting internal thing. I think the election had something to do with it. But I also kind of believe that some of the pushback that we were providing in terms of the intel and just how bullshit the case was, was.
- [73:55]
Saagar Enjeti
Made a difference somehow.
- [73:56]
Krystal Ball
I really do think it actually made a difference at some level.
- [73:59]
Saagar Enjeti
But in any case, I'm appreciating the Colombian President taking Trump to task for his Epstein ties. He said recently a clan of pedophiles wants to destroy our democracy to keep Epstein's list from coming out. They send warships to kill fishermen and threaten our neighbor with invasion for their oil. They want to turn the region into another Libya full of slaves. So the Epstein, you know, as I have explained, pedophile, Mr. Petra has gone global.
- [74:24]
Krystal Ball
Petro is desperate to get sanctioned cuz he's actually not that popular. And he wants the Lula treatment. He wants Trump to sanction him so that he can become very popular and his leftist coalition can prevail in Colombia. So that's mostly what explains. I mean, it is funny. You can't get me wrong. He's trying to say the most outrageous shit about Trump. Cause he's desperately seeking some sanctions from the U.S. state Department, who, by the way, the State Department is aware of this. Rubio doesn't want him to get real elected. And so his advice to the President has been, sir, you just got to have to shut up and take it. And knowing Trump, we'll see if that's not going to work. So that's a little inside baseball for everybody here on the show.
- [75:17]
Saagar Enjeti
No, it's not Too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is.
- [75:21]
Krystal Ball
Happening now through November 22nd.
- [75:23]
Saagar Enjeti
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like.
- [75:26]
Krystal Ball
Mac and too faced.
- [75:27]
Saagar Enjeti
Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.
- [75:46]
Krystal Ball
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