11/13/24: Trump Taps Fox Host For SecDef, MAGA Revolt Over Rubio, Putin Ramps Up Offensive, Interview Live From Gaza, Socialist Runs For NYC Mayor

Summary

Podcast Summary: Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – Episode Released November 13, 2024

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosted by iHeartPodcasts, delivers a fearless and anti-establishment perspective on current events, holding the powerful accountable. In the episode released on November 13, 2024, titled "Trump Taps Fox Host For SecDef, MAGA Revolt Over Rubio, Putin Ramps Up Offensive, Interview Live From Gaza, Socialist Runs For NYC Mayor," hosts Emily Jashinsky and Ryan Grim delve deep into a myriad of pressing political and global issues. This summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, complete with notable quotes and timestamps for context.

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1. Trump’s Nomination of Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense

The episode opens with a vigorous discussion on President Donald Trump's nomination of Pete Hegseth, a longtime Fox News contributor, as Secretary of Defense.

• Background of Pete Hegseth:

  • Hegseth boasts an impressive educational background with degrees from Princeton and Harvard’s Kennedy School.
  • He is a decorated veteran with two Bronze Stars for his service in Iraq and Afghanistan.

• Controversial Appointment:

  • The nomination sparked immediate backlash, with lobbyists and Pentagon officials expressing confusion and concern. Ryan Grim remarks, “[...] what the Pentagon was thinking nominates Pete Hegseth,” highlighting the unease within defense circles ([04:57]).

• Political Implications:

  • Ryan Grim questions the Senate's response, noting, “Even for Trump, you're sort of grading on a curve with his weird appointments” ([06:02]).
  • Emily Jashinsky adds, “He’s one of these Christian Zionists who believes that Israel is going to help usher in the Rapture” ([07:19]).

• Quotes:

  • Ryan Grim: "Putin's getting ahead of the deal." ([02:37])
  • Sagar Enjeti: “[...] Pete Hegseth is absolutely solid about ending the war.” ([08:41])

2. Senate Majority Leader Selection

With Mitch McConnell approaching the end of his tenure as Senate Majority Leader, the episode explores the potential successors and the implications for Republican strategy.

• Candidates in the Fray:

  • John Cornyn, John Thune, and Rick Scott emerge as primary contenders.

• MAGA Influence:

  • The selection process is heavily influenced by MAGA-aligned senators who favor a shift away from McConnell's centralized leadership.
  • Ryan Grim notes, “Senate Leader McConnell is the longest serving party leader in the history of the Senate” ([55:10]).

• Quotes:

  • Ryan Grim: “For Senate Republicans, this means closing the book on the Mitch McConnell era of governance.” ([63:04])
  • Emily Jashinsky: “Rick Scott is not perfect, but he’s made a political calculation that populism is where the votes are.” ([66:20])

3. Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy’s Department of Government Efficiency

President-elect Trump appoints Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to co-chair the Department of Government Efficiency (DGE), a move that raises eyebrows regarding potential conflicts of interest and the department's legitimacy.

• Nature of the Department:

  • The DGE is a private, non-governmental commission aimed at advising the government on improving efficiency.
  • Emily Jashinsky expresses skepticism, “There is some MAGA. McKinsey.” ([14:01])

• Discussion:

  • The hosts debate the practical influence of the DGE and its potential to address government waste.
  • Ryan Grim cautions, “This is giving Deloitte,” implying parallels with major consulting firms.

• Quotes:

  • Ryan Grim: “It's just quite unusual to see someone like Elon in this role.” ([15:02])
  • Emily Jashinsky: “It's Gilded Age level stuff.” ([18:13])

4. Mike Huckabee Appointed as Ambassador to Israel

Mike Huckabee, known for his strong Christian Zionist views, is appointed as Ambassador to Israel, a position that intertwines religious prophecy with foreign policy.

• Religious Overtones:

  • Huckabee believes Israel plays a pivotal role in biblical end-times prophecy.
  • Emily Jashinsky discusses, “Huckabee is that variety of Christian Zionists and having him serve as the ambassador to Israel is absolutely extraordinary and historic.” ([22:48])

• Quotes:

  • Zoran Mamdani: “Today Jennifer and I and others had a chance to go see the Western Wall of the Temple Mount. The Western wall tunnels so much of the Old City.” ([24:58])
  • Ryan Grim: “It's dispensationalism, essentially,” referring to Huckabee’s theological stance ([29:20]).

5. Russian Counteroffensive in Kursk

The podcast shifts focus to the escalating conflict between Russia and Ukraine, particularly Russia’s intensified offensive in the Kursk region.

• Current Situation:

  • Ukraine reports high Russian casualties, with significant troop movements including North Korean special forces.
  • Ryan Grim highlights, “Russia racing against time to retake Kursk ahead of Trump ceasefire.” ([70:46])

• Potential Trump Intervention:

  • Speculation surrounds how a Trump administration might influence or negotiate in the ongoing conflict.
  • Emily Jashinsky explains, “Trump wants to end this war so that he can deliver on a kind of campaign promise.” ([73:22])

• Quotes:

  • Zoran Mamdani: “Everyone here knows like from the ground. Tell them, like I can tell you that the United States is killing us...” ([93:23])
  • Ryan Grim: “If Putin is able to make significant advances, it gives him leverage going to any potential ceasefire.” ([75:39])

6. Interview Live from Gaza with Abu Bakr Abed

A poignant segment features Abu Bakr Abed, a contributor from Daribala, Gaza, providing a firsthand account of the dire conditions following the expiration of U.S.-imposed deadlines for Israel to improve humanitarian aid.

• Conditions in Gaza:

  • Severe shortages of food and medical supplies.
  • Abu Bakr Abed shares harrowing experiences: “I dream of food every day. I imagine our fridge full of meat, lettuce, milk and cheese.” ([80:54])

• Critique of U.S. and Israeli Policies:

  • Abed condemns the U.S. for continuous military support to Israel, exacerbating the humanitarian crisis.
  • Emily Jashinsky cites the State Department’s inadequate response ([92:31]).

• Quotes:

  • Abu Bakr Abed: “The United States have never ever wanted peace. And it's responsible for every conflict that is happening across the globe...” ([93:17])
  • Emily Jashinsky: “Abu Bakr’s latest article is a very powerful dispatch.” ([109:09])

7. Mayoral Candidate Zorhan Mamdani’s Progressive Platform

Zorhan Mamdani, a socialist candidate, outlines his ambitious plans to address New York City's cost of living crisis, public safety, and housing issues.

• Policy Proposals:

  • Free buses to reduce assaults on transit workers and improve public safety.
  • Creation of mental health outreach centers within the subway system.
  • Closure of Rikers Island by reallocating funds from policing to community services.

• Engagement with Voters:

  • Mamdani emphasizes meeting directly with working-class voters to address their immediate economic concerns.
  • Zoran Mamdani: “Freeze the rent for every rent-stabilized tenant… bring universal childcare into New Yorkers’ lives.” ([113:27])

• Quotes:

  • Zoran Mamdani: “These are the price points that are pushing New Yorkers out of the city that they call home.” ([117:10])
  • Ryan Grim: “Rick Scott is not perfect, but he’s made a political calculation that populism is where the votes are.” ([66:20])

8. Tulsi Gabbard’s Potential Nomination for Director of National Intelligence

The discussion touches on former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard’s speculation as a candidate for Director of National Intelligence, highlighting internal tensions within Trump’s circle regarding her suitability.

• Internal Dynamics:

  • Despite her popularity among the MAGA base, Gabbard faces trust issues from Trump-affiliated elites.
  • Emily Jashinsky notes, “She is beloved by the MAGA base, it's interesting that she may end up with nothing super substantive.” ([52:25])

• Quotes:

  • Ryan Grim: “He [Trump] has a lot of political calculation that populism is where the votes are.” ([66:20])
  • Sagar Enjeti: “I've been talking to people here in Gaza... This is something to keep us free from the United States administration.” ([108:47])

9. Senate Majority Leader Election and Its Implications

As Republican Senators cast secret ballots for their new Majority Leader, the episode analyzes the potential outcomes and their broader implications for the Republican agenda and Trump’s influence.

• Key Points:

  • John Cornyn is seen aligning with Rick Scott and Mike Lee’s conservative priorities.
  • Mike Lee advocates for procedural reforms to empower conservatives within the Senate.

• Quotes:

  • Ryan Grim: “Senate confirms cabinet and court nominations. The majority leader sets the tone and makes procedural decisions with massive consequences.” ([55:10])
  • Emily Jashinsky: “If they come out of this with either Rick Scott or John Cornyn, the Mike Lee wing, the conservative wing, is going to feel pretty good about it.” ([69:26])

10. Conclusion and Forward Look

The hosts conclude by reflecting on the interconnectedness of domestic politics and international conflicts, emphasizing the critical nature of upcoming political appointments and elections. They underscore the need for vigilance and accountability in shaping both national and global policies.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Emily Jashinsky: “He’s one of these Christian Zionists who believes that Israel is going to help usher in the Rapture or whatever.” ([07:19])
• Ryan Grim: “Pete Hegseth is a pretty unorthodox pick. There’s no question about that.” ([06:29])
• Zoran Mamdani: “I have hope. I have hope in people like you. They continue protesting and tackling the government every single day.” ([105:14])
• Sagar Enjeti: “The United States have never ever wanted peace. And it’s responsible for every conflict that is happening across the globe...” ([93:17])

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This episode of Breaking Points intricately weaves discussions on domestic political maneuvers, international conflicts, and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, providing listeners with a comprehensive analysis of the current socio-political landscape leading into 2025.

Transcript

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[Ryan Grim]

[e-mail] Gifts that's livenation.com Gifts hey guys, ready or not, 2024 is here and.

[Advertiser]

We here at Breaking Points are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election. We rely on our premium subs to.

[Ryan Grim]

Expand coverage, upgrade the studio, add staff.

[Advertiser]

Give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It just means the absolute world to have your support.

[Advertiser]

But enough with that. Let's get to the show.

[Emily Jashinsky]

All right. Good morning and welcome to Counterpoints. The neocons are on the march sacking the Trump administration.

[Ryan Grim]

It looks like it's 2004 again here.

[Emily Jashinsky]

In D.C. it really is. We're going to talk about Trump's personnel choices. Who's in, who's out? Over on the Senate side, Republicans are going to pick a new leader.

[Ryan Grim]

That's right, Mitch McConnell is the longest party leader in the history of the Senate, so he's there voting on his replacement as we speak right now. So we'll have a full breakdown of that. Tons of interesting stuff to go through.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And it looks like Vladimir Putin is trying to claw back as much territory from Ukraine in the Kursk region before Trump comes in and tells him it's over potentially.

[Ryan Grim]

Right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Trump said, can't happen while I'm in there.

[Ryan Grim]

No, he'll make a deal.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Just going to make a deal.

[Ryan Grim]

So Putin's getting ahead of the deal.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. So there is actually a lot of jockeying going on around the world awaiting Trump swearing in on January 20th. And we're going to talk about this kind of joint North Korean Russian offensive that's underway.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, I mean, just incredibly important development in the history of this war. And Ryan, we have a guest who we'll be going over recent developments in Gaza with.

[Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Drop site contributor Abu Bakr Abed, who was a sports journalist before October 7, has kind of been forced into kind of wartime correspondent duty. Yesterday was the 30 day deadline that the State Department and the Defense Department had given to Israel to improve, to measurably improve specific metrics in Gaza or else face consequences to the tune of losing access to US Weapons. That deadline was yesterday. They met none of those metrics. Things have gone backwards. And we'll talk to Abu Bakr about what, you know, what he has found and talk about his recent piece for Dropsite. And we'll also play some footage from yesterday's State Department briefing, which may be a new low for this State Department because they are the ones that sent this letter, they're the ones that set this deadline, they're the ones that set the metrics and they're the ones that then have to pretend like they never did any of that.

[Ryan Grim]

You're gonna wanna stick around for the footage from the briefing if you haven't seen it. And all kinds of crazy political things going on in New York City, per usual. But actually I would say even more interesting than usual. And so we have a mayoral candidate joining us. Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Socialist Zorhan Mamdani, who was elected in that 20, either 2018 or 2020 when there was that upsurge of kind of DSA candidates getting elected to the New York City Council and also the state Senate and State House. Now he's going to run for mayor on a sweeping progressive platform. That's exciting.

[Ryan Grim]

Hey, we'll see what happens.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

Excited to talk to him. All right, let's start in our A block with new Trump appointments. Just an absolute flurry coming out from the Trump Vance press list last night. These announcements were like, coming every 10 minutes.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Coming fascist and furious.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Damn it, Ryan. Let's start with Pete Hagseth. So if you're not familiar with Pete Hagseth, he is a longtime Fox News contributor, which is probably where most people are familiar with him.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Before Trump got to know him, no doubt. Right.

[Ryan Grim]

I'm sure that is where Trump got to know him. But he has been named the Secretary of Defense appointment. He's been named as Trump's nominee for Secretary of Defense. And I actually got a little bit ahead of the curve saying he's been named Secretary of Defense because most of the time you can kind of assume that. I'm curious, genuinely, even with the Republican Senate, what happens with the Pete Hegseth nominee? Because it was a full blown freak out. Lobbyists were furiously texting Politico reporters. Who the f is Pete Hegseth? You can imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth that was happening literally at the Pentagon when this announcement came out around what, like 9pm last night, just sort of exploded, even for Trump. This was a quote that a lobbyist gave. And I actually, I think it's kind of funny. I mean, I agree with it, not in the way that the lobbyist does, but even for Trump, you're sort of grading on a curve with his weird appointments. This one sort of was surprising still, even in its weirdness. But before he was over at Fox, Pete Hegseth was, he's from Minnesota. He went to Princeton undergrad, Harvard, Kennedy School for his Master's.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Trump loves those credentials.

[Ryan Grim]

He really loves those credentials. Although Pete Hegseth says that he sent his Harvard degree back, he mailed it back to Harvard, and then he.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Trump loves that even more.

[Ryan Grim]

I'm sure Trump loves it. He enlisted and served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He has two Bronze Stars, he's decorated, and he went and worked with, with a group that both of us are pretty familiar with, which is the Concerned Veterans for America. He was the CEO of that group. So it's a pretty, I mean, it is a pretty unorthodox pick. There's no question about that.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We'll talk more about him at the end of this block. He's kind of an America first guy, but also like messianic kind of Israel supporter in a, like, over the top way. One of his top accomplishments previously in lobbying Trump was to talk him into pardoning Eddie Gallagher, who became this kind of hero on the right or for some elements of the right, but committed, like just straight up war crimes and became this kind of cause celeb because you try to find some factions, try to find the worst war criminal and then defend them, to then expand the bounds of like, of what's possible. And Hegseth was in on that and lobbying Trump on that. On that pardon.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, he was definitely lobbying Trump on the pardon. Sager posted last night. He said, I know this about Pete Hegseth on Ukraine. At least he's absolutely solid about ending the war. And I also know the Pentagon brass will absolutely lose it over his pick. They tried to nuke him in the first term, but it seems he may get the last laugh. That's an allusion to Trump attempting to nominate Hegseth for Veterans affairs last time he was president. And it just didn't work because. Exactly. Some of the reasons we're talking about there was this institutional opposition or even like disgust to plucking someone from a News Corp. Studio in Manhattan and bringing them to an appointment in D.C. now that's why I'm genuinely curious what happens in the Senate with this nomination. There's a lot of on the right people are pretty damn happy about it because it's sort of sticking it to the Pentagon and saying basically, screw your credentials, screw your. I mean, obviously he has the Ivy League pedigree, but you know, screw your. Jake Sullivan's like this guy, you know, he might not talk like Jake Sullivan, but he has a better sort of on the ground understanding both of where the public is and where everyone else is and where like what happens if you're an actual combat veteran, etc. Etc. That said, there's obviously concerns you could imagine like a Lindsey Graham having about the managerial task of actually overseeing the Pentagon.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, and also Lindsey Graham and he, Lindsey Graham's not really an America Firster. He's. He loves every war, including the one in Ukraine and elsewhere. And so if Hexith is going to be pushing back against some of those conflicts, even if he is kind of more militant when it comes to, say, Israel, not more than Lindsey Graham when it comes to Israel, but equally so. It'll be interesting. Do you think that. How do you think recess appointments and the Senate are even going to factor in here? Because we'll know more by the end of this show perhaps when the Senate votes. Senate is voting this morning on who its leader will be. Trump had said that he wants a leader who's going to allow recess appointments so he can get through. Yeah, we'll see how the Senate feels about that because that's the Senate sacrificing Some of its power to the executive. What's your sense? Or will he just name acting people?

[Ryan Grim]

I think he would gladly name acting people. And that's kind of the leverage he has over the Senate to confirm people. So, yes, I mean, that's. The Senate leader, I think, will probably acquiesce to recess appointments because if you're.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Pentagon's secretary, you want it to be. You want a confirmed position. Because he's gonna have problems managing the Pentagon as it is.

[Ryan Grim]

That's a good point.

[Emily Jashinsky]

If he's not an officially confirmed member of the Cabinet, then his enemies inside the bureaucracy will use that, say, sorry, I didn't cc you on that. You're not actually in the job.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So when you are, let us know. Right.

[Ryan Grim]

That's a really good point. So that's, I think, probably another reason that they're gunning for the recess appointments, which basically is just an easier way for the Senate to get around appointing. Do you want to explain the recess appointment? We'll talk about it a little in.

[Emily Jashinsky]

The Senate block, but basically in the Constitution, it says if the. If the Senate is recessed, which it used to be back when they traveled from Wyoming to Washington by horse.

[Advertiser]

Right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

For many months, if the Senate was in recess, then the president could appoint somebody and that person would serve until the next term's recess or whatever. And so what previous presidents have done is they try to get their Senate leader to kind of go into recess for a certain amount of time so that they can then put people into office through a recess appointment without going.

[Ryan Grim]

Through the nomination board.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Bush tried to do this a lot when Democrats were blocking him. And Bush would try, like presidents try to do it, because even if their own party controls the Senate sometimes, because the Senate is just slow and annoying.

[Advertiser]

Right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And so that's why you often see if you turn on C Span and it says they're in pro forma session, the reason they're in pro forma session is because then they're not in recess. That's to block the president from making any appointments. We're not doing any work, but we could. So don't try to prepare.

[Ryan Grim]

We are prepared to work.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So don't try to slip anybody through here.

[Ryan Grim]

Last thing I think about Pete Hegseth here as Dan Caldwell, who is. I think he used to work at Concern Vets. He posted last night. I have known Pete Hegseth for over a decade. Like a lot of vets, his foreign policy policy views evolved as the forever wars dragged on and their costs soared. If you were Calling him a neocon. You have no clue what you're talking about. I think that's accurate.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

There's some clips dropping of Pete Hegseth talking about Ukraine early in the war, talking about different continents. He changed his mind on Iraq, for example. He was like a vehement defender of the war in Iraq, which is sort of understandable. When he served, he had a different level of insight into the conflict than a lot of the keyboard jockeys now criticizing him for that. But his views have shifted, like many people, and that's to his credit. I would say that's being intellectually honest with yourself to especially having served and coming back and sort of looking at American foreign policy through a different lens. So there's something very interesting about this appointment. It is completely unorthodox. It is Trump loving Fox and Friends. I get all of that. I also think it's like the Pentagon is an abject disgrace right now and it's going to be actually sort of enjoyable to watch the freak out.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And Dan Caldwell, you mentioned there, he's a strong anti war, anti neocon voice and I think that makes this show interesting because it would be easy to flatten Hegseth as just the maniac that he is when it relates to Israel. And we'll talk about that in a bit. But it's much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Ryan Grim]

Mm, yeah, 100%. Yes. Yeah, he's shifted along with a lot of people who sort of watched the experiment of post Vietnam imperialism play out and has been a part of, like that actual experience. So he's an interesting guy. I've interviewed him before. He's pretty thoughtful. So, Dan and the people at Concern Bets now it sort of gets pegged as a Koch group and it was funded by the Koch brothers.

[Emily Jashinsky]

The Kochs have interesting. The Kochs partly fund the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, where Treated Parsi and others are. So Kochs are interesting when it comes to foreign policy.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. So it's just sort of funny to see the neo.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Their money comes from the Soviet Union, so you got to love that. I'm not making that up. Go Google that.

[Ryan Grim]

So it's just funny to see him get pegged as a neocon. And we'll talk more in a moment, but we also have to get to the Elon and we'll get back to foreign policy. But yes, like we said last night, there was a flurry of appointments coming out after what, like 8pm we had the show basically set and then, you know, we kept getting more and more. One of which was the news about Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy now heading up the Department of Government Efficiency, or Doge.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Co heads. Yeah, Co chairs of this fake commission.

[Ryan Grim]

Except it's not fake, it is real.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Basically it's a private non governmental commission that will be able to advise the government on what it ought to do.

[Ryan Grim]

It's giving Deloitte.

[Emily Jashinsky]

There is some MAGA.

[Ryan Grim]

McKinsey.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. There is a possibility that Congress could appropriate money for it and incorporate it somehow into the government. That's possible, but they wouldn't want that.

[Ryan Grim]

Because Elon would have to. I'm sure Elon would. Whatever his formal role is at this department, non governmental department. He would then have a slew of conflict of interest.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Be annoying paperwork for sure.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, he might even have to like, if he wanted to stay at this Department of Government Efficiency, he might actually even have to formally disentangle himself financially from certain things. Which is why this is not a government. It's why he's not being appointed to a government post. Because, you know, Trump admires his work on Starlink and Tesla and whatever else and he would not be able to keep most of that business if he went into government.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So I look forward to seeing what this, what this commission does and what it recommends should be. Should be interesting.

[Ryan Grim]

Now, do you have a similar take to many others that this was a Susie Wiles maneuver as incoming Chief of staff to keep them as far away as the. From the West Wing or any type of governmental position as possible?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Not necessarily. Because do these guys really want all the smoke that comes with being government employees?

[Ryan Grim]

I think Vivek might, but.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And maybe he'll still get something else.

[Ryan Grim]

I was thinking that too. This doesn't necessarily preclude him from.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, Vivek thrown in there is just kind of funny.

[Ryan Grim]

Also, there's a world in which you can also see this as a snub to Vivek. I don't know if you saw Elizabeth Warren trolling this, but Elizabeth Warren was like, okay, so you have a Department of Government Efficiency and you have co heads. Two people created a department to tackle waste with a position for one person that includes two people.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I think there's some redundancies there. It's also hilarious, of course, because Elon Musk loves to famously say, well, they create a new government agency every minute, so the next minute he's gonna create a new government agency.

[Ryan Grim]

Here we are.

[Emily Jashinsky]

To take on government agencies.

[Ryan Grim]

Except it's not even a government agency to your point. It's like a sort of a fake government agency. It's, you know, we'll see. There's a lot of government waste, no question about it. And you can, you could find some of it on the left, you can find some of it on the right. You could look at wasteful animal testing, for example, as the white coat waste guys do, or you could look at all kinds of bloated red tape nonsense, as a lot of people on the right do. So you can find stuff, and it's still not going to really make a drop in the bucket when it comes to the debt. You could literally eliminate the entire Pentagon budget and you're still not putting a significant debt in the national debt. That's actual, like, math. That's how significant the level of debt is right now. So all that is to say good luck to Elon and Vivek also. This means Vivek said he has to take himself out of the running for the Ohio Senate seat. There's a world in which you can see this as a massive snub from Donald Trump. Vivek has been one of his loudest champions and defenders. I'm not entirely sold on that because I think he's probably very excited to be alongside Elon Musk, the literal most powerful, richest man in the world, heading up this, like, what they see as this massive effort. And Trump said that they're going to be working alongside the White House and the Office of Management Budget. So omb, that could mean basically a very limited type of role or that could mean something really extensive, depending on how much they put into it.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. All the insight into that will come from mapping out the federal government will be extremely lucrative for both these gentlemen. No question about it. Speaking of maniacs.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, actually, that's a great point. Yes.

[Advertiser]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Before we get to that, Elon Musk does extensive business with the federal government. He's a huge recipient of subsidies. Right. So having him sort of with the sandbox to decide what's waste and what's not is there's a reason why it's not part of the government and it's an outside effort.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So this is Gilded Age level stuff.

[Ryan Grim]

It is actually Gilded Age level stuff. And, you know, alongside, we're about to talk about Mike Huckabee. There was also an announcement. Bill McKinley is going to be Trump's White House counsel. Kristi Noem was named as Homeland Security CIA director. Nominee is former DNI John Ratcliffe. Bob Lighthizer is under consideration for, quote, trade czar, that kind of role. He Used to be ustr, US Trade Representative.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And he's good.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. So anyway, those are just some of the big names that were coming out over the course of the day.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Ratcliffe. Before we get to Huckabee, Ratcliffe, he's kind of a, you know, he bucked. He bucked the kind of intelligence community establishment during his first term.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And is like a anti Deep State guy from the Deep State. Is that. How would you describe Ratcliffe?

[Ryan Grim]

I think that's a good way to put it. I believe he's bad on fisa. I'll have to double check that.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh, for sure.

[Ryan Grim]

But yeah, I'm going to. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he caved on the 702 stuff and it's not entirely surprising. But if you're anti Deep State, you're really anti Deep State.

[Emily Jashinsky]

But he's. When he becomes a top spy, he's gonna want all his spy powers. That's. Yeah, yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So that's, you know, there's some interesting.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Stuff, but he's been critical. A little bit of FISA court, et cetera.

[Advertiser]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Com cocktail Mike Huckabee named Ambassador to Israel Famously Sarah Huckabee Sanders Father the reason we know Sarah Huckabee Sanders originally is because she is his daughter, the former governor of Arkansas. And so Hegseth is one of these Christian Zionists who believes that Israel is going to help usher in the Rapture or whatever. It's one thing to have your Pentagon secretary believing that and you're like, maybe he won't. He'll just be executing some policy and he's focused on the entire world. It's not just Israel. Huckabee is that variety of Christian Zionists and having him serve as the ambassador to Israel is absolutely extraordinary and historic. Just an incredible moment. We think we have some of him riffing on this. Right? Let's put up a four here. What happens next? It's about the end times and quite frankly, some of us think we may just be living in them. So Max Lucado, so good to see you. Thanks for joining us and welcome as we talk about the end of the world. Well, Governor, I wouldn't be anywhere else. I'm supremely honored to have these moments with you. And yes, I do believe we're not just in the end times, we're in the end of the end times. It's moving fast. Max, when you say that, it scares a lot of people. They think, oh, no, the end of the world. That's just terrible. Your whole book is focused on quite a different perspective about the end times.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You say in this book, it's not.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Something that we ought to be afraid of. It's something we ought to embrace and look forward to. Okay, that didn't make me less afraid, Max Lucado. That actually made me a lot more afraid.

[Ryan Grim]

Maxicato is a very popular Christian author.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So tell us about. Well, let's play Hegseth and then tell us. Try to make us a little bit less scared about the period that we're about to try. Here's hegzether8. This is a 4B.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But we are here in Jerusalem.

[Ryan Grim]

And.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Today Jennifer and I and others had a chance to go see the Western Wall of the Temple Mount. The Western wall, tunnels, so much of the Old City. And as you stand there, you can't help but behold the miracle before you. And it got me thinking about another miracle that I hope all of you don't see too far away, because 1917 was a miracle. 1948 was a miracle. 1967 was a miracle. 2017, the Declaration of Jerusalem as the.

[Advertiser]

Capital was a miracle.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And there's no reason why the miracle of the reestablishment of the Temple on the Temple Mount is not possible.

[Advertiser]

I don't know how it would happen. You don't know how it would happen.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But I know that it could happen.

[Advertiser]

That's all I know.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And a step in that process, a step in every process, is the recognition that facts and activities on the ground truly matter. And that's why going and visiting Judea and Samaria, understanding that sovereignty, the very sovereignty of Israeli soil, Israeli cities, locations, is a critical next step to showing the world that this is the land for Jews and the land of Israel. And I believe, as was mentioned, he.

[Advertiser]

Said, you need to.

[Zoran Mamdani]

What was mentioned is you need to buy the ticket. Don't just wish for 40 years to win the lottery. Buy the ticket. I would submit to you in light of the support you have in Washington, D.C. the support you have amongst patriotic Americans, amongst evangelical Christians, amongst believers, amongst Republicans, even amongst some Democrats who can barely say it anymore in Washington.

[Advertiser]

Buy the ticket.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Take your action, do what needs to be done here in Israel, because I truly believe this is a moment where America will have your back. You have Donald Trump in the White House. You have Mike Pence as vice president. You have Nikki HALEY at the U.N. you have true believers in Israel and America that have your back.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Okay. So he's talking about these True Believers, 1917. That's obviously a reference to the Balfour Declaration, where, you know, Britain says that they support the establishment of a homeland for the Jewish people in Palestine. When he talks about Judea and Samaria, that's the west bank talking about sovereignty over the West Bank. We'll talk about the later. The Israeli government is now saying they're going to annex the West Bank. When he says the reestablishment of the temple on the Temple Mount. Yeah. Now we're talking biblical stuff here. We're not talking there about.

[Ryan Grim]

We're talking revelation.

[Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We're not talking about building a new temple by human hands. Right. We're talking about ushering in the. What, Second coming here.

[Ryan Grim]

Well.

[Emily Jashinsky]

What are we talking about here?

[Ryan Grim]

So I thought of a way to make this less terrifying, actually, while he was speaking, which is. I don't think it's gonna make it better, though it might be less terrifying. But this is basically the worldview that has informed Christian conservative policy towards Israel for. I mean, I would say post 9 11, that's where, I mean, obviously it's been around since before that. But post 9 11, I think is where it really. And you probably watched this play out in the Odds is where it really sort of congealed into a powerful political force as our policy in the Middle east became more aggressive. I shouldn't say more aggressive, but it's. I mean, it's fair to say when you actually have ground invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, there was a lot of justifying it with this particular Christian evangelical worldview that gave it a lot of power, especially with a generation of Christians at the time. And I think Pete Hegseth talks a lot about Israel as, through the conservative lens, as being a representative or a bastion of Western civilization. So I don't know to what importance he ascribes each version, like to what.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Importance he talks about. That's the kind of. The secular version of it, both. Right. But the spiritual version is that Jews in Israel are going to be the cannon fodder for the Apocalypse. Right. And so it's bring the Lord Savior back or something.

[Ryan Grim]

And I don't know if this again, makes it less terrifying or more comforting, but that has basically been the engine of evangelical support for political Israel for a while.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Uneasy alliance, political Israel.

[Ryan Grim]

It's reading the kind of nation of Israel as political Israel as the country right now of Israel, into different sections of the Bible, which is why people like Max Lucado and there are varying degrees of seriousness as people approach this. But it's why people like Max Lucado look at what's happening in the world and say we're in the end of the end times. Because you can kind of piece together parts of Revelation from what happens in the news.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And Huckabee is rejoicing. He's not afraid. He's rejoicing because he's going to meet his Lord and savior or whatever.

[Ryan Grim]

It's dispensationalism, essentially, meaning. So what you're hearing Hegseth talk about there is the Third Temple. And if you combine this with the fact that there are some Netanyahu allies or part of that right wing coalition that he kind of has to keep happy and keep together, who are also trying to rebuild the temple because they also were trying to usher in the messianic age and they, in a real.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Temple, they would build an actual physical temple.

[Ryan Grim]

They literally have the plans for building a temple. And what they have to do is.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And they have to do that to fulfill some of the prophecies of Revelation, right?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, exactly. And so you have to reclaim control of the Temple Mount, which is obviously not in Israel's control right now. That's why you see people like Ben Gavira walking into like, you've seen this over the last couple of years. And it terrifies a lot of people when you have like Ben GVIR making a big point of going to the Temple Mount and all of that. It's an effort, a legitimate, serious effort to rebuild the temple.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Hamas October 7th attack was called Al Aqsa Flood.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And which was named for their response to those exact provocations.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, Al Aqsa is the mosque that's on the Temple Mount. Right. And they would not even. They would reject the term Temple Mount. And that's the. So that's actually like really the crux of all this conflict. At the end of the day, Al Aqsa is an extremely important site for Muslims. It's where a lot. It's where Muhammad ascended to heaven from. So. And that's the place of Solomon's Temple, if you're Jewish or you're Christian. So it's kind of at the heart of the conflict. And that's where. Yes, this, it's just as a piece of land, extremely important. If you are interpreting what's happening right now biblically to political Israel, as whenever these prophecies talk about the nation of Israel or Israel as a collective, if you're interpreting that as political Israel, then yeah, it's pretty Easy to jump from point A to point B.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So we're all gonna die.

[Ryan Grim]

Maybe.

[Emily Jashinsky]

But that could be good.

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, we are all going to die. To be fair.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's true. We will all eventually die.

[Ryan Grim]

We are all going to die. Now, should we move on to Marco Rubio or.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Let's. One more producer Mac says. Emily, this did not make me feel any better.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, sorry, Mac. But I mean, Mac's producer.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That didn't make me feel any better either.

[Ryan Grim]

Producer Mac is from Georgia, so he's probably been surrounded by a lot of this.

[Emily Jashinsky]

He had his chances to be saved, and yet here he is. Ethan. Ethan Mack.

[Ryan Grim]

You know, some of the stuff does go into, like, pretty wacky territory pretty quickly. And I don't agree with this is just not where I come down on this. Even as an evangelical, it's not where I come down on it. And it frightens me a lot, too. So do I know or do I think that Pete Hegseth is going to act on this? I mean, yeah, he's Secretary of Defense and he's very clear about how his religion informs his worldview. This is everything to Mike Huckabee, who is now the ambassador to Israel. But do I think it will mark a significant departure? No, because we are so. We've already wrapped our arms around the.

[Emily Jashinsky]

There's the good news, right?

[Ryan Grim]

It's high.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We're already so maniacally like one directionally headed in that. Headed there.

[Ryan Grim]

It's not gonna change that much. Yeah, I don't know that it changes that much.

[Emily Jashinsky]

The pedal's already on the floor.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Yeah. There you go.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Excellent. Wonderful. That made me feel better. It's better all over here now.

[Advertiser]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

We can also make ourselves feel better by reveling in the suffering of Marco Rubio, who two nights ago was reported to be named to be Secretary of State. There was some interesting caveats in the reporting. I think you and I were both immediately hearing from our sources afterwards that said, this is not actually a done deal, right? Like, he's leaning towards Rubio very strongly and then probably Rubio still gets this position. But we're almost 48 hours now away from the leaking of the appointment and there's still no official word. And if you just followed along with that first block, you saw that he's been throwing official names out every 10 minutes and every time one comes out and it's not Marco Rubio, it's another slight to Marco Rubio, who is facing fierce opposition from the world of Tulsi Gabbard, Tucker Carlson. I don't know this from my reporting, but you would imagine Donald Trump Jr. People like him have said that they are opposed to people like Rubio who come from the neocon wing, as you saw from that compilation that we just put up. And we can actually play a little bit of Tulsi from last summer talking about Rubio as well. It's a six.

[Advertiser]

I think it would be a huge.

Mistake for President Trump to choose him.

Because he represents the neocon warmongering establishment.

Of Washington D.C. which stands diametrically opposed to the very policies that President Trump has always stood for, going all the way back to when he ran for President in 2016 through that first term in office. The things that he's talking about wanting to do now. And it would just, it would send the wrong message to a lot of folks who are very concerned about the.

Fact that we are on the brink.

Of war with Russia and China and Iran and North Korea.

If Marco Rubio is his vice president.

Then that is, that is what we will face.

And it will cause a lot of.

[Ryan Grim]

People to question what kind of foreign.

[Advertiser]

Policy will actually be executed. Will be the one that Trump wants and stands for or will it be one that will continue the deep state neocon warmongers.

[Ryan Grim]

That was July 10th.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Right. And so Rubio has adopted domestically a lot of Trump's or whatever you call it, the populist nationalist stuff when it comes to he's become more pro worker than he used to be. He's supportive of child tax credits and other supports for, you know, working families. Foreign policy is just an unreconstructed neocon right.

[Ryan Grim]

So this is if we skip ahead one element to a 8 because Ryan just made the same point as Kurt Mills, who's the head of the American Conservative. He said Rubio is a strange pick. He has won plot. It's on the new right in recent years for his Catholic social conservatism and industrial policy economics. But foreign policy, widely viewed as the area in which he is pre Trump also sets up a Hillary Biden dynamic with Vance. And as if to kind of make Kurt's point Jon Fest this is a seven waited in sort of inexplicably he.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Wait for him to be appointed.

[Ryan Grim]

He didn't have to say anything, but he went for it. He tweeted, unsurprisingly, the other team's pick will have political differences than my own. That being said, my colleague, Senator Marco Rubio is a strong choice and I look forward to voting for his confirmation. This is the John Fetterman that ran on a full blown populist, I would argue, even like Bernie adjacent.

[Emily Jashinsky]

He endorsed Bernie at one point, had the endorsement of Bernie in one of his races.

[Ryan Grim]

His Senate campaign was in Pennsylvania, but it was sort of the version of Tim Waltz that a lot of people really loved about John Fetterman is that he was talking to voters in red counties with borderline, I would say, democratic socialism and making people like it. So talking to Trump supporters and making people like it. So that that's also part of Rubio's project on populist economics. There's no question about it. He has been really successful at sort of shoehorning those into the conservative movement. He's been a part of a really good shift on the right foreign policy. Ryan, you know this better than I do. His approach in Latin America in particular has been quite aggressive. Neoconservative is unreconstructed. Neoconservatism is a great way to put it. He did vote against the round of Ukraine funding that got really controversial. What was this back in January? February. Although some have pointed out he kind of took a interesting route to get to why he was voting against it. I think he has shifted a little bit on. I think he's very disillusioned with American foreign policy as a whole. But that doesn't translate into Latin America.

[Emily Jashinsky]

No, extremely. Like the Miami Herald has a, you know, is already reporting that Cuba, Venezuela, any country that is not run by a kind of right wing government right now in Latin America is panicked at the possibility of Marco Rubio becoming Secretary of State. Diaz Balart likely will be chair of House Foreign Relations. So that'll be two, you know, Cuban Americans who have a quite vengeful approach that they take towards Cuba in particular, but also anybody that smells like Cuba to them, which is, you know, anybody kind of to the left of Javier Milei. And so, yeah, that's dark, but he might not get it, which is wild. It'd be amazing if this falls apart.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, he truly, at this point, when Trump is going through Ratcliffe and Pete Hegseth and it's leaked to Maggie Haberman and I think she co by lined that with Jonathan Swan, both people who are pretty well informed in Trump world, that was a couple of days ago now and Rubio world is pretty prepared for this to happen. There was some bickering back and forth over the Rick Renell camp, former ambassador to Germany and the Rubio camp. Not the Rubio camp, but some like new right type people who are even just trying to report on this. There's been some bickering back and forth about whether Grinnell's trying to backstab Rubio. And this is like a big controversy.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I can only imagine he is.

[Ryan Grim]

He says he's not.

[Emily Jashinsky]

He's never seen a back.

[Ryan Grim]

He hasn't like, he says he's not. But it's hard to imagine that, you know, Don Jr. And Tucker Carlson are absolutely having input in this transition process. One of the funny bits of reporting is from Axios that Trump is basically hold in a makeshift situation room at Mar a Lago where they have prepared kind of video decks for him. When he names a person, they can put it on a series of monitors, which I compared to the great scene in Princess Diaries 2 when they're trying to choose a husband for Mia.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Show me his Fox appearances.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I think that's actually what's happening. So the reporting suggests that's what's happening so that he can see how they would defend him. Probably explains why Kristi Noem goes to dhs, which is a pick that I find just enormously objectionable for many reasons. But anyway, all that is to say Rubio could end up not getting the Secretary of State position because there's jockeying against what some people in MAGA world see. And Tulsi Gabbard, we're gonna talk about her in the next block, but she would be one of these people who would see him as an unreconstructed neocon, especially because of his support for coups, essentially in Latin America. Very similar rinse and repeat foreign policy in Latin America that we've had for decades. He's obviously Cuban, so he has a very hawkish approach to the Cuban government and the sanctions regime. He's been friendly with Bukele.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Trump is fine with that.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah. He's been friendly with Bukele, he's been friendly with Milei. So those relationships are there.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And in case Trump is watching this from his little situation room, of course, let's play one clip that we think ought to sway him in the opposite direction when it comes to some of these pics. Look who is so excited about your picks, Mr. President Elect. Let's roll a nine here. I know Mike Walts.

[Advertiser]

Full disclosure, he's a friend of mine.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I feel like this.

[Ryan Grim]

Elise Stefanik, Susie Wiles. This is probably about as team normal.

[Advertiser]

As you get when it comes to Donald Trump picks.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, I think Elise, whom I've known for many years can certainly do a fine job at the UN And I think Mike Walts will be a fine National Security advisor. I should. I should probably say I'll be for him or against him, whichever would help.

[Advertiser]

Me more, given my relationship with his boss.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So Trump's making that man happy with a lot of these picks.

[Ryan Grim]

He really is. Listen, we just went through a huge list of different people in their careers and different points in their careers and all of that. But if you are, let's say you're Donald Trump Jr. Or you are Tucker Carlson, and you're looking at this list as that graphic in a 5 showed just some of the upset in Trump world over Marco Rubio that's going to extend. This is there are a lot of people, John Bolton is an example, but there are a lot of people who are more establishment types in Trump world who are looking at this and are really, really happy because they feel like it shows Donald Trump is surrounding himself with, quote, unquote, serious people. They're not gonna be so happy about Pete Hegseth, I'm sure. And that's where the Senate rubber could meet the road when some of these senators are asked to actually vote on that. But if they're actually asked to vote.

[Emily Jashinsky]

On that, let's move on to somebody who has not gotten picked yet, and that is former Democrat and former Independent, and now Republican, former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. You can put C1 up on the screen here. So she was, you know, she's been jockeying, she's been close to Trump, she's made inroads to some of his team, yet is struggling so far to gain purchase inside the administration. What's your read on this?

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, this is a hugely conspicuous absence. I don't know. I mean, you followed Tulsi Gabbard's career.

[Emily Jashinsky]

For a long time, since before she was elected.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, right. Yes, Absolutely. And if we put the next graphic up on the screen, this is B2. This is a quote that we got from someone who's inside the transition world and explained it as thus. Because Ryan and I are both trying to poke around and seeing what is going on here. And this source said Tulsi is not fully trusted by Trump World. That is the bottom line. If you're looking around and wondering why this woman who was used as a surrogate and a powerful surrogate at that, I would say one of Trump's most powerful surrogates, which is why he recognized that and used her all over the campaign. I Mean, this is somebody who comes from. She was. What's the formal title? Co chair of the DNC or deputy chair of the dnc.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, she was on. She had vice chair, I think something like that.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, one of the vice chairs in 2016. And so the Trump campaign recognized that there was a lot of power in that message. Much more powerful than the flip side of Kamala Harris using Liz Cheney and Tulsi Gabbard's a great speaker and she's a good surrogate for Trump and Trumpism. And so she's a recognizable face that was all over shows like Megyn Kelly talking about Donald Trump. And now even as there are leaks about her eyeing as that first graphic set of defense secretary job. She's totally. I mean he went with Pete Hegseth.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

You know this is another source told me someone who is a senior administration official and Trump won. She is the universal pick amongst base conservative MAGA World for Department of Defense. So this was before the Hegseth announcement came out. So she even has purchase with, with MAGA World. There are people in MAGA World who really, really love her. But because she is, as my understanding is because she's such a new convert to Trumpism, Trump World just doesn't fully trust her with one of these positions, which is she's beloved by the base. So if she ends up with absolutely nothing, that speaks to a level of distrust that I think has been kept from public.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. And as Summit, somebody who's in Trump World put it to me, he said, quote, she rubs people the wrong way sometimes. Which actually that follows her from the Democratic Party. Like that was a problem she had over there as well. Maybe some of this is misogyny. Not saying that's limited to Republicans at all. But also she's interesting and different and iconoclastic and that can rub people the wrong way. So there is some personal stuff going on here. The source also said he thought that she was still in the running. No, he's still in the mix. Being talked about for a Director of National Intelligence, which is wild. Like you know, because she was a couple term member of Congress.

[Ryan Grim]

Right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So to move from there to Director of National Intelligence would be a rather extraordinary leap. But also reflects the way that Trump has kind of upended things and made things that would be completely impossible in a previous era possible.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, we'll see if she gets that. I'm sure she's trying to be in the race for it. There are other people who you would imagine might be ahead of her, but she does Have. I think her foreign policy departs from even Trump's insignificant ways. Syria is a good example. And from Hegseth in very significant ways.

[Emily Jashinsky]

It's a very interesting foreign policy. She's far right when it comes to Hindu nationalism aligned with Modi. Basically a huge supporter of the war on terror like drone strikes and some of the Islamophobia or some of the hostility to political Islam that is inherent in some of that far right wing Hindu nationalism is present in her support for a global war on terror. And support for the global war on terror is not really consistent with the kind of America first, you know, try to attempt to retrench American power projection. So your point about Syria is a good one. So she's against regime change wars, but supportive of lots of drone strikes against Muslims. So it's like, yeah, she's different.

[Ryan Grim]

She doesn't fit neatly into one box or the other. Meaning if you're distracted.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh, she sort of does. She fits neatly into kind of like a Modi box.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, but one box in Trump world.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Or the other box in the United States.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, if you don't fit into one of the like you're not fully in. You couldn't perfectly be described like in the Tucker box and the Don Jr box or in the Marco Rubio box. And so if you're.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And there's elements of her that all different factions like.

[Ryan Grim]

But all different factions, all different factions.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Are uncomfortable with different elements of her.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. Which would mean that you don't have a lot of like full throated advocates for an actual like substantive defense position. Maybe she'll get something that is like more involves a ceremonial public facing representation of the administration's policies. I don't know, there's probably something like that around, but it is. I think given how heavily she was used on the campaign trail, given how much she is absolutely beloved by the MAGA base, it's sort of interesting that she may end up with nothing super substantive.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, we'll see. And she might. She might get a big job. We'll see.

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[Ryan Grim]

As we speak this morning. Right now, Republican Senators are casting secret ballots for their new Majority Leader in the upper chamber. Their options are the very enticing trio of John Thune, John Cornyn and Rick Scott. I said that sarcastically obviously, but it looks like right now there's some leaks coming out of the meeting, which is happening again as we're speaking. It looks like it's going to be John Cornyn. That could obviously change. So why does any of this matter? There are some obvious reasons and then some less obvious ones too. With a majority in the Senate and likely majority in the House, Republicans will be able to pass major legislation when Donald Trump is inaugurated in January. The Senate confirms cabinet and court nominations. The majority leader sets the tone and makes procedural decisions with massive consequences. Even if all of this is often obfuscated by very confusing inside baseball, here's how our friend Rachel Bovard, a longtime Senate staffer, including on the steering committee, put it in the Federalist yesterday, channeling what I think is fair to say the broader sentiments of the conservative world. Rachel wrote, quote, for Senate Republicans, this means closing the book on the Mitch McConnell era of governance, marked by heavily centralized management and open hostility to the Trump agenda and the Republican base. On November 13, they will elect a new leader for the first time in nearly 18 years and have a chance to usher in a new leadership that is accountable to the conference and the priorities of the evolving base of the Republican Party. So the majority leader is the party's chief negotiator. If he won't go to the map for, let's say, cutting Ukraine funding or a hardcore border bill, MAGA senators and Donald Trump can't do that much about it other than exert public pressure, which is powerful, and then play hardball in smoke filled back rooms. So why is this a problem for Republicans? Trump is claiming a mandate, so why would any of the options for majority leader be a thorn in his side on these issues? Issues John Thune and John Cornyn are long time allies of Mitch McConnell, who has made no secret of his personal disdain for Trump. Thune and Cornyn, both from red states, joined the Senate in the Bush years. Rick Scott entered politics as Florida governor in the Tea Party wave and then joined the Senate in 2019, where he quickly aligned himself with the MAGA movement in 2022. Es McConnell insisted on his tradition of not releasing a policy agenda. Scott sought to fill that vacuum with a plan to rescue America. That was what it was called. He courted conservative thinkers and journalists, including myself, seeking to establish himself as the populist alternative to McConnell, operating on the understanding that McConnell was ailing and also deeply unpopular at the time. Scott was talking to people again. I had conversations with him about all of this, really laying the groundwork. And it was a clever movement. He was buying goodwill with people who would be in positions to offer public support of him, including people in the Senate, including people in the media. But backlash over the plan's points on the social safety net, which were used by Democrats in their Campaigns brought about a consensus in some Republican circles, actually in Republican circles generally, that Scott was kind of in over his head, got ahead of his skis. Nevertheless, after the GOP's disappointing 2022 midterms, Scott scored 10 votes in the secret ballot election. Senate Leader McConnell still got 37, but picking off 10 was pretty impressive given that a lot of senators were being publicly asked by reporters to say how they voted. National media is now acting like Rick Scott's challenge basically came out of nowhere. It did not. He has been laying the groundwork for this over the course of several years and sensing an opportunity to either change leadership or pressure them to be better. Mike Lee really followed in the footsteps of the House Freedom Caucus recently. The Freedom Caucus obviously pushed Kevin McCarthy to make all kinds of concessions in exchange for their votes for his speakership. And Lee put out a list of parliamentary demands to empower conservatives. He's been working hard in public and private to push the list and to push Rick Scott's bid. The demands are super granular. They sound super granular, but would be pretty consequential. Consequential. Lee wants four weeks of time for debating and amending omnibus bills. He wants a floor schedule for appropriations. He wants to reform something called filling the tree in the amendment process. And he wants wants term limits on leaders and then goals to be stated upfront every year. Trump himself has treated the question of recess appointments as a litmus test for the next leader. Ryan and I talked about that earlier in the show. Getting through recess appointments would allow him to fill up his Cabinet quickly and without pushing members to take controversial votes. Now it's all similar stuff to what happened with Kevin McCarthy demands that kind of harken back to the Tea Party years when conservatives were demanding leadership. Listen to the base. Lee, of course, would arguably be a better and more appealing and charismatic leader than Rick Scott himself. But Lee's libertarian slash populist streak means he almost surely would not be able to secure enough votes from a conference that still includes centrists like Susan Collins. Earlier this year, Donald Trump Jr. Tweeted, quote, RINO Senators John Thune and John Cornyn both want to replace Mitch McConnell once he finally gets put out to pasture. Both of them also voted to send billions more to Ukraine. MAGA must do everything in our power to either stop to stop either of these rhinos from ever becoming Senate leader. Both men are seen as being aligned with more of the donor class than the base on foreign policy and the border, voting as Ukraine hawks and supporting Senator James Lankford's Trojan horse, McConnell pushed border deal earlier this year. To say the very least, they are out of step with most Republican voters. But just about anyone in a leadership position in Congress is going to be, which is why the bench of potential successors to McConnell isn't very deep. It's either two friends of his or the one guy crazy enough to take those guys on. Rick Scott is not perfect, but he's made a political calculation that populism is where the votes are. So that means the MAGA agenda will clearly be better off with him in power, even if he's an unlikable ambassador for the cause and struggles to actually get anything done. Now, those are both serious problems and recognizing Scott's odds, MAGA operators in the conservative movement seem to have secured some concessions from John Cornyn, who's politically ambitious enough to recognize that it's wise to pull a little bit of a McCarthy here and give those guys something. Just last night he released a Dear Colleague letter saying that he's with Rick Scott and actually with Mike Lee on some of those priorities about how they could reform Senate procedures. So in if MAGA world, if conservatives can defeat John Thune, it'll be a win either way for maga, which would have simply gotten nothing if Lee hadn't mounted this effort behind the scenes. And it's a win for actual conservative voters, by the way, who will also now have a little bit more of a voice in D.C. whether you like MAGA populists or not, this will empower antiestablishment voices. The real question now is just how much it will empower. So, Ryan, you've covered the Senate for a really long time. Some of this is actually leftover from the Harry Reid era. You covered Harry Reid very closely. Filling the tree, I think, is a process that Harry Reid was sort of a pioneer of, at least in recent history. So I'm curious, from the perspective of somebody on the left, the anti establishment wing of the Democratic Party has played a little bit more nicely with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and now Hakeem Jeffries, then the Freedom Caucus guys and Ted Cruz and Mike Lee did, especially in the Tea Party era, Rand Paul as well. Some of this sounds great even from a bipartisan perspective, like actually having four weeks of debate on omnibus bills, having your party leader say what your goals are at the beginning of every year. I don't know. It actually just seems like a way to make the Senate work better.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Right, but just like the Freedom Caucus reforms that they successfully extracted when the rubber hits the road, they get tossed out. Like bills still get put on the floor and moved quickly through, despite promises that, oh, you'll get 72 hours to look, everybody will get to amend, like, all of these promises that they make about democracy end up kind of just getting tossed out when in reality. But yes, from a just small D. Democratic perspective, it would be nice if we had Democratic institutions again. Yeah. No, I mean, at some point you're like, hold on, you've got the president, the Supreme Court, and Congress. And then if Congress is run by four people who are all from red or blue states and basically cannot be voted out. So the four people being, you know, the House Democratic leader, House Republican leader, Senate Democratic leader, Senate Republican leader, they call them the firm. Those are the big. They call them the big four. If then the only way that you can, as a voter, influence power is by switching parties from Republican to Democratic.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Since none of the representatives or senators have any power because they're just at the, you know, they're just at the whim of this big four. Like, how different is that than China? Like, in China, like, you know, the government is responsive to people's will, not through Democratic elections, because they don't want to get overthrown. They want to make people happy. They want to keep prices low. They want to keep the economy growing.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I'd rather have elections.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Sure. But if all your elections can do is narrowed down to this tiny margin, it's not that impressive of a system from a Democratic perspective.

[Ryan Grim]

So a lot of the objectionable foreign policy that most voters would say, if you put this, this in front of me on a ballot referendum, I would vote it down. Most of that gets packed into these omnibus bills that aren't really debated on. So the senators just say, this was my leverage at the last minute. That's just what we had to do to get this other priority. And if you have more debate on omnibus bills, you probably will get a slightly more representative foreign policy, because senators will have to take a little bit more heat for having these conversations in public. So that's at least, I mean, and Cornyn, last night, literally last night came around and he put out a Dear Colleague letter, essentially agreeing with a lot of the tenets of the Lee plan that Rick Scott had pushed. And so a source told me, basically, this is a win for us either way, as long as it's not Jon Thune. So if they come out of this with either Rick Scott or John Cornyn, the Mike Lee wing, the conservative wing, is going to feel Pretty good about it. Even though people like Ted Cruz do have longtime connections with Thune, because he was a McConnell, he's obviously a McConnell ally, a McConnell deputy. You had to have good relationships with him. You had to make inroads with him in order to get anything done, which, I mean, Rick's got. How much can he get done? He's broadly disliked by a lot of people and he's putting out things about how he was a business leader, trying to convince some of the establishment people to come over to him because he was a business leader. And now you and I could talk about his record as a business leader.

[Emily Jashinsky]

He oversaw basically the greatest Medicare fraud in the history of the United States, somehow is not in prison, and instead is on the cusp of being, you know, Senate Majority Leader John Cornyn. Yeah. Is an old school chamber of Commerce Democrat from Texas.

[Ryan Grim]

Republican.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, yeah. Did I say Democrat?

[Ryan Grim]

You said Democrat. But a lot of people on the right would be like, yeah, yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, he would have been a Democrat in the 60s, 70s, from Texas, actually. Actually, he may even have been when he was younger because it was a one party state, but it was a Democratic state back when LBJ was around. He has spent decades, or at least close to two decades raising money for his colleagues in the Senate Republican Conference and is very attentive to their needs and is well liked by them. And so if he wins, and it'll be because that old school method of winning power still works. When these people were running for the Senate for the first time, he was there in their district, raising money for them, connecting them with donors, making sure they won. And people feel a real loyalty for that. When Rick Scott was in charge of electing senators, he put out some stupid plan where he was gonna tax half.

[Ryan Grim]

The country, those entitlements that people were like, you're cutting social game.

[Emily Jashinsky]

What are you doing? You're making it harder for us to win an election rather than easier. When your job is to make it easier. If Rick Scott sneaks through, it'll be because the establishment split them, split their votes between Thune and Cornyn, which would be an impressive own goal on their part.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. Yeah. And a couple other things to mention. Trump has so far stayed out of the race. And obviously, I mean, they're voting now. Even J.D.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Vance, who's there, Trump wing, is very clearly Rick Scott.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Yes. Although, you know, Cornyn is obviously trying to be really friendly with those folks. And I think Trump just wants whoever wins. That's probably the correct theory as to why he stayed out of it. J.D. vance wouldn't say who he was voting for according to at least the earlier reports we're getting when he was or who he was supporting when he came to the Senate today. So Trump is on Capitol Hill today. He's actually going to talk to people. He's going to the White House today. That's another important, important subplot in today's crazy news cycle with all the appointments and all of this going on. But Mitch McConnell is the longest serving party leader in the history of the Senate. So that's why this is extremely consequential. Thune and Cornyn had a lot of negative things to say about Donald Trump over the years when it came to things like the Access Hollywood tape. Obviously they voted differently than a lot of the MAGA wing would want them to in Ukraine. So there's this real deep seated fear that they will do everything they can to undermine the goals of the MAGA agenda when it's actually rubber meets the road in legislation. And even just as they're fundraising and negotiating and all of that stuff, Mitch McConnell is seen as somebody who, going back to the Tea Party years, was undercutting the hard right in fundraising and at his Senate leadership Fund and with those various groups. So it's a pretty consequential position and definitely a new era in the GM gop.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. Interesting. Up next, Russian counteroffensive in Kursk as both sides await kind of Trump's intervention in this conflict. So if we can put D1 up on the screen, it's very hard to know what's going on in the war between Russia and Ukraine, obviously, because both sides are pushing their propaganda. But according to the Ukrainian forces, the last couple of days have been among the highest rates of casualties, almost 2,000 apiece in two straight days for Russian forces as they have launched a counteroffensive. Now, Ukraine does not break down how that includes whether that includes killed, wounded or taken prisoner. But the reason that it, it's plausible that Russia is suffering huge casualties, that they are trying in the space of a couple of months to take back as much territory as they possibly can before Trump is sworn in on January 20th. Over the weekend, you put up D2 here. There are a lot of reports that Russia was massing 50,000 troops for this Kursk counteroffensive, many of them actually North Korean special Forces.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yes.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So this is where, because what they're trying to do and what they claim that they have successfully been able to do is mass this 50,000 person fighting force without taking troops away from anywhere else on the front lines. And so it would stand to reason that because they are just throwing as many people as they can at the Ukrainian defenses, that they are indeed suffering significant casualties. But that doesn't mean that they will ultimately be able to be stopped because they have more manpower than Ukraine does at this point. Now, obviously, the defensive line is much easier to maintain with landmines and with drone technology. Meanwhile, Russia is launching enormous numbers, apparently of suicide drones at the Ukrainians. So this is going to be hell on earth probably for the next several weeks or months as the two sides jockey for position ahead of what they both expect will be some kind of a forced ceasefire. You put up the third element here. This is an article from Newsweek making the same point. Russia racing against time to retake Kursk ahead of. Ahead of Trump ceasefire.

[Ryan Grim]

That's, I think, an interesting way to frame this. And you talked about that when we opened the show up a little bit. And I guess. How connected do you think this is? I mean, this is happening against the backdrop of all of these actually fairly hawkish appointments, some genuinely heterodox, but, like, fairly hawkish appointments coming out. So how connected do you think this is from Donald Trump? I should say, how connected do you think this is? The potential shift in policy under Donald Trump, which, by the way, we don't actually know what it would be because Trump repeatedly, over the course of the campaign trail, hedged on his plan. He said he doesn't wanna say his plan because that would be telegraphing too much to world leaders. Obviously, people are worried that Trump is going to appoint people who are. Or Trump already has appointed people. For example, Rubio didn't fully back the Ukraine spending just several months ago. And that Donald Trump will be more aligned with Tucker Carlson on Ukraine, and he'll appoint Tulsi Gabbard and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. To powerful positions, and he'll be listening to them. So far, that's not really what is foreign policy. It looks like it'll be shaping up to be in the second administration. But how connected do you think it is to the possibility? What we're seeing right now is connected to the possibility that there's a hawkish shift in Washington.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I think it's completely what we're seeing here.

[Ryan Grim]

Interesting. Yeah, because Biden's been pretty hawkish.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Not hawkish. I think that Putin really does feel like. And Zelensky feel the same way. I think that Trump is going to try to end this war so that he can deliver on a kind of campaign promise. And Trump has said that there has to be a negotiated end to this. And so I think, I think everybody feels like the end is coming. Whether Trump can actually enforce an end is an open question, but people think that he's going to try. We can put up D4 here. This is Fox News reporter Trey Yingst who's saying you can't understate how challenging the front is right now for Ukrainian forces. Updated maps show multiple Russian advances in Donetsk. This comes as reports indicate 50,000 Russian and North Korean soldiers staging for a counter offensive. Curse. So they're making advances in Donex while also pushing here as well against a very much depleted force. Zelensky, just the other day, actually, we can put up D5 here. This is at a press conference with European media where Zelensky said, look, we're not, you know, Trump can try to push me into a deal, but I'm not, I'm not going to make one. Zelensky said, I believe that President Trump really wants a quick decision to end the conflict. But he added, quote, it doesn't mean that it will happen this way. Zelensky stressed that a peace process must be just and not risk leaving Ukraine vulnerable. Quote, trump wants this war to be finished. Zelensky continued, acknowledging that while everyone shares that. God. That Ukraine is not going to be kind of pushed around. So there is. That's the Lenski's claim. So everybody is aware that Trump wants to end this. What that actually means, what Trump does with that and what that means on the ground is the thing that they're fighting through now.

[Ryan Grim]

And obviously, if Putin is able to make significant advances, it gives him leverage going to any potential.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And right now, Ukrainian. Ukraine is in Russia.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Which.

[Ryan Grim]

Right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Ukraine is hope with no plan to exit. Right. And some in Ukraine, I hope, like, okay, this is our leverage then, to get back Ukrainian territory. We'll give you back this Russian territory. So we'll see. It's almost 2025, and this is a war that's been going for years that really shouldn't be.

[Ryan Grim]

This is awful. And North Korea's involvement is also, I think, reasonably disconcerting. Well, I mean, wrapping all of the nuclear powers into one conflict, what could go wrong?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. Come on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

All right, Ryan, we have a guest lined up that is. I'm very eager to get this perspective. Someone who you've worked with at Dropsite.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Who'S written for Dropsite, Abu Bakr Abed. A reporter from Daribala joins us next to talk about what conditions are like there after the 30 day deadline given by the United States to Israel to increase humanitarian aid has expired, so stick around for that.

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Joining us now from Daribala, Gaza is Abu Bakr Abed, contributor at Dropsite News. Abu Bakr, thanks so much for joining us.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Thank you so much for having me as well.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And let's start. We can put his put your dispatch up on the screen here. This was in Dropsite yesterday. Incredible first person report that also gets into a lot of the kind of technical details as well as what's going on. I just want to read a quick portion from it for people so they can get a flavor for it. You write, I dream of food every day. I imagine our fridge full of meat, lettuce, milk and cheese. I sometimes talk to myself at night when I'm hungry and have nothing to eat. I dream of when I will be able to sit at a dinner table with my family again. My nephew and niece, both 2 years old, wake up every day crying for an egg. Their mothers don't know what to do. To distract them a bit, we show them videos of eggs on the Internet. You also, you write about some anecdotes where a mother breastfeeding a baby, waiting in line for hours for something and just coming up empty. But your story also gets into the data and the stats about what is getting in. So as you compare the conditions that you've been able to report on over the last several weeks and a month, if you compare those to several months ago, how do those compare? Because the State Department said Israel has one month to improve. Did things improve?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Not at all. No, unfortunately, because I've been hearing from the Secretary Blinken since the start of this genocide, but he's absolutely been lying. Because what we see on the ground is that even humanitarian organizations are not allowed to operate well across the territory. But at the same time, what I need to tell you is that even aid is not distributed well to families. Like for example, a lot of families here are groaning in pain and groaning in hunger every single day because there is no aid reaching them on a very daily basis. Because these people have been displaced. They have no hope at the moment. They don't work. Their families don't have anything to do with this war because they're not important to this war. So they say that if there are humanitarian organizations working on the ground, so why are we not receiving aid every single day? And I can tell you that there are many families here in particular around me, where I am at the moment. And they can tell you that since the start of this genocide, they haven't received any aid boxes at all, at all, Literally at all. And let me start with myself. I haven't received anything from the start of this war. But it's very important to tell you that our main objective, our main hope is that this war must end. We don't need aid. We don't need anything. But what we've seen over the last two weeks in particular is that people have been calling out the world to bring in some aid, to bring in flows of aid and quite, you know, enhance the humanitarian situation inside Gaza. But instead, the United States has sent more weapons to Israel, more bombs that killed much more families, many more families around Gaza, here and there, at least over the past two weeks. It's just the start of October, like over the last 30 days, we're talking about more than 100 people have been killed in Dorbala. And yesterday, tents were set ablaze, yet once more time, and two children were killed. Many others were unjust. So it's a very apocalyptic situation here.

[Ryan Grim]

And I know you're familiar with all of the arguments from people in the west in particular, who will say the reason this food isn't getting to the people who need it is because of Hamas, and Hamas is to blame for people. If people are hungry, it's because of Hamas. But then a lot of people will add to that argument that it's a mythical famine, that it's not really happening when those two positions are sort of mutually exclusive. But what do you say to people who just cannot. What is the way for food to actually get to people who desperately need it? How can countries go ahead?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's some sort of know that war planes, aid. War planes, like, threw aid upon us. And this has been repeated over the course of time. But this is a humiliation. This way and method has killed hundreds of people. Like there is an aid box thrown over a tent and it just damaged this tent and people inside it are killed. But the way is. The safest way is to open the two crossings that Israel has closed for past 30 days and since May because the Rafah crossings has been closed since May. And you mentioned something like, again, like, Emily, I'm not a political person, but what I've seen on the ground yesterday, because people haven't been aware of that. I wrote that on Twitter, but I deleted it then. I mean, in Al magazine, refugee camp in Central Gaza, that is surplus for me. To me, if things are like what people are thinking about, then why yesterday they are not. For me, they're not Hamas fighters because they are local security forces. That's what we call them. That's how we should call them. Yesterday they intercepted the work of a group of gangs and militias that tried to hijack an aid tribe coming from Karma Abu Salem to central Gaza. So if it is about Hamas, if we talk about that, then why this? Why the local security forces yesterday risked themselves and went out just to intercept this work, this absolutely disgusting and disgraceful work. But we need to know that these people, these gangs are assigned by the Israeli military to cause chaos and to cause disorder, sort of confusion and turmoil among people and deprive thousands of families trapped in the territory from this very important aid. Because I myself and a lot of families, every single family around ghost here in the south, there in the north, they are buying aid. And we buy that by extremely excessive and unimaginable prices. And the prices are skyrocketing. But also it's very important to know that the Edward gets either to you, Ryan, to Emily or the audience, people, look, respect us, we are humans like you. The aid we're getting is absolutely of the lowest equality they send us. Absolutely the lowest equality. Talk to people here. They have had many times like severe gastroenteritis, hepatitis A virus. And then when they are dispatched to the hospital, we've been talking to doctors from the ground and they told us that it is because of this aid, because this aid is, is absolutely so bad, it doesn't make any sense, it tastes so bad. So do not allow the flow of aid to get into the territory, into Gaza, the besieged enclave, and then send us or dispatch some sort of very bad quality aid. That is not the case because we are humans, don't send aid like we are. We're accepting the fact to be starved. But do not humiliate us and dehumanize us by sending such so called aid that you are sending us, which is absolutely non eatable at all.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, you write in the article about how much of the flour is completely bug infested. That pet food is becoming something of a staple. But I'm wondering if you could elaborate a little bit more on what you were saying about the gangs who have risen up because there is a lot of suspicion from outside. So how is it that the idf, how is it that Israel is allowing all of these gangs to flourish? You know, they're able to. Drones are, you know, flying constantly everywhere they can see these armed gangs going around, you know, hijacking aid. They attack. They attack Hamas if they are able to see them. But they, yet they allow these gangs to go forward. What is the relationship here?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean like there's a very important thing to know which is that like all what is happening on the ground, because I've been speaking to some merchants from the ground and what they can tell you is that all things, all of these events, the train of events is happening near Karma Basale. It's all about that area which is, which is the crossing through which things are allowed to interdisciplinary trap. But what happened here is that the Israeli military is sending quadcopters and drones to like for surveillance tasks and to watch over what is happening nearby. And then when they say, because they mark their, you know, their gangs and they're assigned to gangs and militias, so they see one like apart from their gangs, they directly pump these, these, this group of people. Like for example, if they are local security forces, because there is a difference between, again, there's difference between the resistance fighters who are Hamas fighters for people who are fighting Israeli military and a difference between the local security forces. The local security forces are absolutely civilians. They have nothing to do with Hamas. So they are not Hamas to bomb them and kill them. So that is what is really happening relationship is that we've seen here in south that a group of people in the southwest of the camp have been armed by the Israeli libertarian weapons and et cetera. So when you talk about like Hamas doesn't have the ability to have such weapons. So you can expect that these people are causing such a great deal of panic among people even that during the night hours, like some people are getting out of their houses and they are then, you know, held at gunpoint by these gangs and they are threatened just like to give everything they have. So a lot of people have gone through such an experience because of these gangs who have created such chaos. And a lot of people have lost many things. Like for example, if a merchant has a big amount of money coming out, like going out to bring some goods or something, and of course there are unimaginable prices and then they have such money. And then those gangs signed by the Israeli military and the Israeli army are going to face them, confront them and take all this money from them under the threat of gun fire and, you know, killing them.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. Israeli politicians have talked about the strategy of propping up and arming gangs in order to kind of sow dissension inside of Gaza and to undermine Hamas is that people's understanding of what's going on?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean there is, yeah, they already know but it's just because that like there is a lot of cows inside the Turkey so we don't know where aid does go. I'm very sorry but people have to know to understand even that those gangs, it is very surprising in shocking but we've seen this on the ground which is those gangs, some sometimes belong to the humanitarian organizations working on the ground. So for example Honora or World Certification, I'm not going to say black, I'm saying for example but I've seen people who are responsible for this sort of acts in the territory stealing and hijacking a drugs. They belong to those humanitarian organizations. I've been speaking to people and outside like the audience until telling them all the time that the humanitarian organizations do not operate well, not only because they are under the threat of the Israeli military, no, because most of them, like some of them inside are responsible and viable and they are the mastermind of these acts of hijacking, etc. So we will understand and know that these humanitarian organizations are also responsible for what they are going through. But the main reason we need to know that all of this has been caused by the Israeli military. So there is nothing to do with the civilians or the local security forces. The local security forces are doing their very best. They are exerting strenuous efforts to secure the flow of aid and the entry of aid to all people around Gaza. But Israel simply bombs them. So that's what is really happening on the ground. And people have to also realize the fact that like signing people and we are in a time that people would easily give up their principles and their, you know, their, I mean greed just to find some sort of living and try to resist them in such incredibly harsh circumstances. So they are easily bamboozled and deceived and persuaded by the Israeli army to work within such a very, you know, a very bad and immoral way.

[Ryan Grim]

Ryan, should we play the State Department clip?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, let's roll. I wanted to get your response to the State Department spokesperson Vidan Patel. Yesterday was the deadline for Israel, the deadline set by the United States and metrics set by the United States. That deadline hit yesterday and here's how the State Department responded. I want to get some of your response to it. This is Vidant Patel, this is E4.

[Advertiser]

Why did you bother to put in.

[Emily Jashinsky]

350 trucks a day if it doesn't matter?

[Advertiser]

I'm not going to speak to the, I mean you keep saying you're not going to speak to specific metrics, but you guys are the ones that made those. We didn't, we didn't give the Israelis.

[Emily Jashinsky]

30 days to do all this stuff. You guys did.

[Advertiser]

And now those 30 days are up. And as you heard from everyone so.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Far and these aid groups that came.

[Advertiser]

Out last night, they haven't met them and all of a sudden you say that the metrics that you put out don't matter.

[Ryan Grim]

I never said that they don't matter.

[Advertiser]

What I said was these are metrics exactly like you've put out.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's not a rabbit hole.

[Advertiser]

Meaning I don't want to take up.

[Ryan Grim]

Time getting into a specific tit for.

[Advertiser]

Tat on truck numbers.

[Ryan Grim]

What's your response to that exchange between Matt Lee I've seen that, yeah, I've.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Seen that yesterday I saw it. But it's already, as I told you, that they are just manufacturing the genocide in Gaza. They are liable for every brutal act of killing children, disempowering them and dismembering them. And they are not allowing any sort of way to get it. They're just lying to people all around because everyone here knows like from the ground. Tell them, like I can tell you that my nephew, his nieces are who haven't exceeded five years old. They can tell you that the United States is killing us because they have, you know, they have that sort of knowledge right now of what the United States is about because it's really important to know that the United States is copy trading the genocide in Gaza. And you can see right now how many, like there is a full generation of amputees in the city. You can go out in any of the citizens in Gaza either in the south and north and you can see at least two to three people amputated. And this is a result and a symptom of this Israeli, Israeli as American genocide happening on the ground. So the United States have never ever wanted peace. And like I look, I've been like, I'm not a political person yet once again. But when I can tell you that the United States have never wanted peace and it's responsible for every conflict that is happening across the globe, even in Ukraine, even in Sudan because they are armed the RSF that is responsible for the genocide in Sudan. So it's the United States, the United States States have never wanted base and it will continue supporting and funded genocide in Gaza and army Israel because it's Israel, it's their friend, it's their, you know, ally. It's their, you know, stone chest, you know, friend, et cetera. But again, I mean, like, if the United States ever, ever cared about us, this would end. From a very, very call from Biden in the beginning and all week of this war just, it was simply put. It was just simply put. Hamas told that, like the fighters, the resistance, as we call it, told the Israeli military that we could exchange prisoners. And what we know so far is that after a week, the Israeli army has killed more than 5,000 people in Gaza. So this sort of retaliation is more than. This is more of a disproportionate in response to what Hamas did. Okay, but then when things were put, and the conditions were put by Hamas and resistant fighters here, Israel said no. And they put one condition, which is not to enter Gaza, not to invade Gaza and cause this sort of havoc upon the city. But then Israel said no. Biden could change things and could force Israel not to go ahead with its annexation and plan and to be sieged and life. But again, Biden wants to work, wants to erase Gaza because it's getting benefits from occupying a land, a very, you know, a very tiny trip that is, that is full of, you know, many resources, like sources like gas, et cetera. Because you can see the pier there that has been built, like many months ago. It's used because people are expecting, right now, local experts are expecting to geographically, you know, experts are expecting that this bill will turn into. Will be turned into a port seaport to allow the Israeli military or the Israelis to do, you know, this sort of commercial transfers between other countries, between Europe and Asia, because Gaza is in Asia. So you can see that. Unfortunately, I'm sorry to say this, we're very, we're very hopeful people. And I'm just hopeful. I'm only 21 years old, but I can tell you I've promised myself that I will emerge from this with hope. Again, I'm not political person, but what is really happening is first and foremost and always is perpetrated by the US Israel could not even stay one month in Gaza without the support of the United States.

[Ryan Grim]

And actually that might be a good opening here to rule E4, which is a clip of code Pink activists, antiwar activists here in the United States some months ago, approaching Senator Marco Rubio about his support for the war in Gaza. And this is obviously as Marco Rubio now, this was before, but now is being considered for a Secretary of State role here in the United States. So let's go ahead and roll E4. Marco Rubio's response to the code Pink activists in the Senate hallway. Senator Rubio, will you call for.

[Advertiser]

No, I will not.

[Ryan Grim]

On the contrary.

[Advertiser]

Are you filming it? I want you guys to get this.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I want them to destroy every element.

[Advertiser]

Of Hamas they can get their hands on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

These people are vicious animals who did.

[Advertiser]

Horrifying crimes, and I hope you guys post that. And what about the civilians? Every day, Hamas should stop hiding behind civilians, putting civilians in the way. Hamas knew that this was going to lead to this. Hamas has stopped building their military installations underneath hospitals.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So you don't care that 15,000 have died? You don't care about the babies that are.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I care.

[Advertiser]

I think it's horrifying. I think it's terrible. And I think Hamas is 100% to blame.

[Ryan Grim]

So that's obviously an ascendant view in the incoming Trump administration, and I'm so very representative. Go ahead.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I'm sorry to cut you off. No, I'm so fed up with this claim that it's all about Hamas. It's all about what is happening. Like, for example, I'm not Hamas. I have no connection with Hamas. My family doesn't have any relationship with any Hamas members. Okay, then why am I being subjected to brutal and Shia and pure brutality and barbarism and starvation then? This is the question. A lot of families. The Gaza Health Ministry has just announced today that Israel has completely wiped out more than 4,500 families with no survivors. Tell me, among the dead, all are more than 17,000 children. Most of them are under five years old. What have they got to do with Hamas? I mean, it's utterly despicable and utterly disgusting that people are still believing in these things. And again, the Israeli military is forced in. The military service warned all those who have exceeded 18 years old in their colony. I'm not going to say territory, but here you have the choice. You never, ever, Hamas is going to tell you that you have. You are obliged to belong to us. Never, ever. And we have to know that there are four more than four political parties in government Gaza. So where is Hamas in this equation that people are still claiming, talking about, that we can justify the murder of more than 17,000 children, 10,000 women? I mean, look, I'm truly fed up with that. Like to deliver that. Even some journalists from the Times, the Sunday Times in the UK and other places like the Guardian have asked me about this sort of, you know, things that. About Hamas and about others, but already we have nothing to do with them. Like a lot of people here, you talk about that less than 40,000 Hamas fighters. Okay, so how many families are in Gaza? Much, much more. Many, many more than that. You're talking about more than 200,000 families. Then why has have 40, like 5,000. Around 5,000 families being wiped out with survivors? Like for example. I'm going to give you an example. Like Dr. Maisarus Rais, whose name went viral when he was killed along with his wife in Gaza City. He was a chivalry scholar and he was killed, brutally killed in cold blood along with his entire family. And they are still under the rug, by the way. A lot of people are selling the rub. Like my neighbor's child was bond like November last year. Today, today, 10 days later from today, it will mark him. It will mark a year that from the time he was born and still he's still under one year. One whole year. He's five years old. He's a. He is a disabled child. And then tell me what has he got to do with him now past? Look, it's utterly irritating and I don't know, like, if you want to justify it again, it's very important, Ryan and Melly, to be a human before being a journalist. If you're not a human, then don't be a journalist. Like, it's very simple as that. There is a four people that is being exterminated at the moment. They have nothing to do with Hamas. Okay. And don't tell me that Hamas lies behind civilians because, look, I'm not trying to say anything about this, but. Of course, of course. Like, for me, I don't see anyone like, around and I don't know them just to justify the killing of, you know, many people, many innocent wives. Like, I've lost my entire aunt's family. Like, I mean, what have I do with that? I don't know what, what I can tell you, but. And that's that just a client, this.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. And the man, that man is reported to be headed to become Secretary of State to replace Antony Blinken. What has been the reaction among people in Daribala or others that you've spoken to in Gaza to the Trump victory in the election? Do people expect it to get worse, to stay the same? What are people. What's the response? Response?

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's a very good question. Yes, I wanted you to ask me this because, like, they have the same opinion of Trump. He's a genocidal war criminal. And that one, Biden is a genocide. And we have no hope at all in Trump to append the current situation at all, at all. Like, we don't have anything we need to remember that is that Trump, when he was the president of the United States, he announced and declared Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and he is responsible for the process of normalization with Arab countries, with Israel. So this is something to remember that he is a cause for what is happening. Because I'm sure if he didn't do that Arab countries in such a very difficult time and in the face of this sort of extreme adversity, they would really move and act and intervene to stop what is happening in the ground. But I can tell you that even we don't know about politics, but we have heard like Trump has just like does just have a bad reputation on people in Gaza. So it doesn't have any good thing to do with Gaza. And people know and understand realize that Trump, that Trump will worsen the situation inside the besieged enclave and that he will kill and be responsible for another vergin renewed version of the genocide that Joe Biden, the genocide Joe Biden started on October 7th of last year.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And just I'm curious on a personal level, if you don't mind me asking, it's mid afternoon there now in Gaza. What have you eaten so far today? And like what is your hope for what you might have before the day is over?

[Sagar Enjeti]

You can see how the electricity was cut off. This is one of the main things that is, that is happening right now in Gaza. So it's very expected that I'm talking to you, you are spinning the light and I'm hoping and I'm like a human being, I'm a human being, I'm supposed to be a human being. And I'm just like wishing, hoping for a day instead of you, like for a moment, like give me like a moment of your life, of your worst day to me so that I can feel at least that I'm a human. But what vegan software is that again? It's just like some loaves of bread you have some if you have it even, and they are made by, you know, they are made by bug infested flower of course, because there is no flower that has been allowed to enter the strip. But at the same time we have like as I wrote in the space, we have some like start at this local plate and with some olive oil. So that's what we eat every single day. And it's just one time. So we are making a process here, we're making a schedule here. You know, like we, we may not, we minimize things so every, everyone has a pop a portion, everyone has to eat every single day, not eat, you know, all day or you know. No, I mean like you can't eat all day. There's no way that you can eat all day. No, it's just a small portion, a small part that you can eat all day because you want to maintain what you already have at your home. You want to maintain that. So if you eat like a little bit more than what is expected, than what is, I mean, what is like a loaf of bread or some loaf of bread or something, then you will run after food. And this is something we, we want to try to, you know, we want to avoid as people here in Gaza. But as a 21 year old person, I mean, this is not the first war I've been through. The first five, five wars in Gaza have been many genocides. Now this is the biggest genocide I've been through. But I can tell you that I, again, I have hope. I have hope in people like you. They continue protesting and tackling the government every single day. And I hope that things will change because I will never, and I can never lose hope at all, at all because I've been instilled into that to hope is to live. No matter what circumstances are inflicted upon you, no matter what hell is afflicted, we're going to be, I'm telling you from here, I don't know if I'm going to survive this brutality in this hellish time. But I can tell you that if I, inshallah, if I survive this inshallah, which I'm very hopeful about, we're going to be the leaders of a free world. All this young generation has been educated during this time about Palestine, about the double standards of the Muslim community. The hypocrisy of an entire Western media outlet, channel and network will lead the prosperity of this free work. There will be free work led by us. So no matter what happened, what has happened, I'm going to see hope, I'm going to freeze hope. And I have everything to keep smiling no matter what happens and no matter what has happened.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, I hope that for you, Abu Bakr. And I know that you've talked about wanting to return to sports journalism, which was your love before you were kind of requisitioned into what you've been doing for the past year. I just want to thank you for sharing these stories and this perspective with us and give you our very, very best from everybody here.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, thank you so much. It was really important and very, you know, very interesting to talk to you. But again, I just want to tell you once one thing. In the end it is about you that will lead to change, we hope in you. And please never ever think about leaving us alone because you are the reflection of our and I'm 100% confident and proud of your work, Ryan. If you work Emily, it is your responsibility to lead that exchange. And that exchange should be marked by your names. And we're going to make this word free from the United States. That must be free from the United States administration, of course not its people.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, all the best. We promise we will. Everybody watching should check out Abu Bakr's latest article over at dropsitenews.com just a very powerful dispatch. Thank you for what you do and we promise we'll keep it up.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Inshallah. Bye bye. All the best.

[Advertiser]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Mayoral elections are coming up next June. Joining us now is Zoran Mamdani, who's a candidate for election and New York State assembly member. Is that right?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yes, that's correct.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yes. I remember covering your first race, part of this kind of DSA wave that that kind of swept its way into power in New York City and across the state and has kind of reshaped the politics in an interesting way. What gave you the idea to jump from there to running for mayor?

[Zoran Mamdani]

You know, the cost of living crisis, to be frank with you, New Yorkers across the five boroughs are struggling to afford even a shred of dignity in their lives. And Mayor Eric Adams has used almost every opportunity opportunity to exacerbate that crisis. He has raised rents on more than 2 million New Yorkers by 9%, rates we haven't seen since a Republican was running City Hall. He has supported Con Ed when they put in an application to raise New Yorkers utility bills by about $70 a month. And he has sat on his hands whenever he's had the opportunity to provide any kind of relief. And this is a position that New Yorkers should look to as one that gives them respite from the economic crisis in the rest of their life as opposed to one that is pouring gasoline on the fire that is already consuming them now.

[Ryan Grim]

It's also kind of an interesting position to be in as someone with your politics where you have a lot of populism. And Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, also someone from the DSA wave, was posting on her Instagram over the last couple of days asking people who voted for both her and Donald Trump because she had some split ticket and some shifts in her own district towards Donald Trump. Why they saw her, why they would vote for both her and for Donald Trump. What if you were talking to a voter who for example, would be someone maybe who voted for Donald Trump and would vote for you? What's your pitch to them? Even talking about the cost of living crisis, something that is probably very serious for a lot of people who may have voted for Donald Trump. How are you having those conversations? Basically as a populist, I actually spent.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Much of Sunday on Hillside Avenue in Queens and Fordham Road in the Bronx, which were two of the areas in New York City that swung most toward Trump, saw even greater drop offs of voting overall. And when I spoke to voters about why, they told me it was cost of living, that they remember having more money in their pocket four years ago that they couldn't afford their groceries today. And it was despair over war and the genocide in Gaza and a feeling that Donald Trump, as insincere as we know this to be, was the only candidate speaking to them about a desire for a more affordable life and bringing peace back to the world. And these are a lot of the issues, namely the economy and the inability to afford the price points that dominate people's day to day lives. And so when I spoke to those voters and I asked them what would it take to bring you back to the Democratic Party because many of them had previously been voting for Democrats and they said a focus on these very issues. And so I told them about my mayoral race and my opening promise to freeze the rent for every rent stabilized tenant, to to make buses fast and free for the more than a million New Yorkers who ride them every day, and to bring universal childcare into New Yorkers lives whether their child is six weeks of age or five years. Because these are the price points that are pushing New Yorkers out of the city that they call home.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And so the movement that you've kind of come out of and been a leader of is kind of an entanglement of a couple of different currents. On the one hand it's the Bernie Sanders we're going to make sure that you can afford your rent, your college, your groceries, you can make sure you can live a dignified life. And then there's the cultural elements of it which became associated with a lot of it. Defund the police, abolish ice and on and on. When you talk to voters, where do they see that wing of the party coming from? Do they associate it more with we're going to make people's material lives better or do they associate it more with the other elements that Fox News will talk about and Democratic Party leaders will kind of condemn whenever there's some type of electoral problems for them?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I would say that Bernie is probably the figure that looms largest in voters minds when thinking about the left wing of the party. And his response to Tuesday's election is one that has been found to be quite compelling to a lot of these very working class voters that I spoke to, which is a response that the Democratic Party left working class Americans a long time ago and now working class Americans are leaving the Democratic Party. And I think that it is an association with an inability to afford those day to day expenses. And you know, I would also say that at the same time as nearly half a million New Yorkers, fewer New Yorkers voted for Harris than had voted for Biden four years ago. We also saw the passage of Prop 1, which was a proposal to enshrine reproductive rights and truly civil rights for all, including trans New Yorkers pass at quite staggering margins across the state. And I think that this is also indicative of the pass across the country which passed on issues that should be central to the Democratic Party party. And yet voters trust referendums more than they trust Democrats. And it's time that we ask ourselves why is that the case and how can we deliver on those actual issues.

[Ryan Grim]

And in some sense obviously the rumor candidate Andrew Cuomo is the perfect foil to this like left populism for all of the reasons. And you're in the state assembly obviously very familiar with the Cuomo legacy in Albany. So in what sense or how hard will it be should he enter the race to kind of get people's attention? Is it easier to get people's attention because he has so many obvious vulnerabilities politically, but he'll come in with a lot of built in media, institutional knowledge within media organizations and ability to sort of suck a lot of oxygen out of the room for himself. What's that dynamic gonna be like for you if that happens?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think Andrew Cuomo knows that the longer he's in this race, the more difficult it is for him. And that's he's yet to announce his candidacy because he doesn't want to expose himself to four, five, six months of an actual inspection of his record. He wants to simply coast on the reputation that he used public dollars to burnish. A reputation he was more interested in than actually saving New Yorkers lives at the height of COVID And what I am excited by is the opportunity to tell New Yorkers why we are in the situation we are in when we're looking at a mental health crisis. Crisis. Here is the former governor who shut down so much of what would have been helpful in this moment to respond to these very crises. Here is the governor that cut hospital beds. Here is the governor that took an ax to almost every single kind of public institution he could find to ensure that it was not worthy of any funding in the future. And I think it's high time that he understands that accountability is a word that also applies to him.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Do you accept. Do you expect him to run as a Democrat or as an independent? Like, what's. What. What are. As people are gaming this out, what's. What's your path to Democratic domination? And where do Cuomo fit into that?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I expect him to run as a Democrat, though I wouldn't put anything past Andrew Cuomo, because I think he's more interested in power than anything else. My path to the Democratic nomination is to speak to the working class of New York City. You know, I say this as a socialist. I say this as someone who is running an unabashedly progressive campaign campaign. There are far more New Yorkers who feel left out by the economic policies of Mayor Eric Adams and Democratic leadership than there are that identify with any one political persuasion. And my goal is to go to every single one of the five boroughs on a regular basis and to speak to those New Yorkers about how we could actually make their lives better. Not speak to them about values or ideas, but speak to them about tangible, deliverable policies that we can enact from the very beginning of a mayor virality that will literally make their life more affordable.

[Ryan Grim]

And how are you handling the crime question? Because this is one of the. Ryan kind of asked about this, but it's also, you know, we've seen, like, I've been talking to Ro Khanna a couple of times. We asked him about this actually on our show last week in California, New York, obviously, New Yorkers have some, you know, concerns that are similar just in a material sense to what people in Northern California, Los Angeles have also been dealing with over the last couple of years. And a lot of people would point, you know, voters might say, well, this is downstream of the defund the police movement, etc. Etc. But just in conversations that you're having across the boroughs, you know, there's obviously room between defund the police and reforming the police and all of that. So where's your conversation going when people bring those concerns to you?

[Zoran Mamdani]

You Know, most of the time, they bring it to me in the context of public transit. They feel the least safe when they're thinking about subways and buses and things of that nature. And I think it's important, important to identify that, because that means that the solutions to that feeling have to lie within those very places. And one of the reasons that we have been fighting for free buses is, you know, I led and won a the first New York City free bus pilot in last year's state budget, where we made one bus free in each borough. And what we saw is that by making that bus route free, assaults on bus drivers dropped by 38.9. And these are the kinds of assaults that they are not just assaults on the driver. They are also assaults on the passenger sense of safety in that moment. And if you're able to fundamentally transform the experience of getting on the bus, getting to where you're going, you feel that much more safe. And I think, additionally, one of the reasons that many New Yorkers have identified feeling unsafe when they're taking the subway is the fact that the subway has become the de facto site of mental health crises across New York City. And it's critical that we actually understand that and respond to it in those very places. And what I mean by that is, at the same time as right now where we have many vacant commercial units across the subway system, we could transform those vacant commercial units into mental health outreach centers. We could actually empower and create mental health responders so that the people that are responding to New Yorkers in crisis are not other New Yorkers or not police officers, but are people trained specifically for that episode.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And what would that cost? What would that look like? How would you develop that program?

[Zoran Mamdani]

So we're going to be putting forward a proposal to create a new department, the Department of Community Safety, which would build on the successes we've seen in Philadelphia's Hub for Hope program and policies that even the BART system has implemented, implemented around mental health responsiveness. And the cost is something that I'm quite confident will be within the costs we're already spending on police overtime, which nears about a billion dollars every single year, or the Eric Adams proposal to spend $225 million on creating a new cop city in Queens. This is all possible within the fiscal sense. It's just a question of if there's the political will.

[Emily Jashinsky]

What about Rikers? It's still open. It's a complete travesty and a disgrace. Why hasn't Rikers been closed yet? And how would you get it closed.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think it hasn't been closed because Eric Adams simply has no interest in closing Rikers Island. He has no interest in taking any kind of action beyond that of impunity when it comes to corrections, when it comes to policing. I have been to Rikers island many a time. One of the last times I went to Rikers island, an incarcerated New Yorker tried to take their own life in front of a colleague of mine. That is the level of despair we are talking about on this island. And it is a legal requirement to close Rikers island in the next mayoral term. But Eric Adams speaks about the law as if it's a suggestion. So what I would do is from the very first day, I would make sure that we are following policies that make that legal requirement environment a reality and that we actually close Rikers Island. We do so by ensuring that we are keeping New Yorkers safe. And just to the question of cost that has come up, it costs around half a million dollars to have a New Yorkers on Rikers, have a New Yorker on Rikers Island. But we are only willing to spend about $50,000 sometimes to house those very New Yorkers which would keep them out of that kind of a place. I think we have to realign our priorities.

[Emily Jashinsky]

One of the obstacles has seemed to be neighborhood opposition to alternatives to Rikers. Like how do you, how do you overcome that?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think one of the key things is there are a lot of people that we are throwing away putting onto Rikers island that are actually need not be in that kind of a facility. They need not even be in a borough based jail, frankly. And I think what we need to ask ourselves is when there is a woman who is selling cotton candy outside of school without a license and the police put her in cuffs and then she's visited by ICE the next day, do you feel safer that she is in a cell? And I think that that's what's so offensive about Eric Adams's policies is they have nothing to do with sense. They only have to do with this sense of impunity on a day to day basis. And it stems across multiple agencies. How we haven't been willing to create new solutions to problems that have continued through multiple mayor alleys.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, it's wild what people are in Rikers for just sitting there for a year for having stolen like 10 newspapers out of a box or like one guy I know of a sandwich, like just complete insanity. Anyway, Zorhan, thank you so much for joining us. This is a race we'll be following pretty Closely. It's going to be interesting. No doubt.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure.

[Ryan Grim]

Appreciate it.

[Emily Jashinsky]

You got it. That was Zorhan Mamdani, a mayoral candidate. The thing that makes his race possible, actually, is matching funds in the New York City mayoral race. So he'll have the resources to get his name out even without having gigantic billionaires or real estate developers or whoever else behind him. It'll be an interesting one to watch.

[Ryan Grim]

In a crowded race with matching funds. You could argue that's a big advantage to Andrew Cuomo just because of name recognition.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh, for sure. Andrew Cuomo. He's going to be in the mix, man. Might come back.

[Ryan Grim]

That's for sure. Yeah, that's for sure. Also reports from Jake Sherman over at Punchbowl that Tulsi Gabbard's in the mix.

[Emily Jashinsky]

For confirming our reporting here at Breaking points slash counterpoints that she's in the.

[Ryan Grim]

Mix for Director of National Intelligence. Pretty obvious that that would be, since it's one of the big foreign policy vacancies and she's yet to have gotten an appointment that she's in the mix for that. Although it won't. There's little she can do to probably alleviate the trust questions that will linger. Which means if she is appointed to that position and she's not fully trusted by Trump World, that's a pretty interesting dynamic, too.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, we'll see. Gonna be exciting.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, I'll be back here tomorrow replacing Sager. We have a girls show, so I don't know what we can do to compete with the Bro show, but we'll do our best.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I'm sure it'll be. I'm sure it'll be fun. No Friday show this week.

[Ryan Grim]

No Friday show this week.

[Emily Jashinsky]

You guys will be okay, though.

[Ryan Grim]

I think everyone's all right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We'll see you next week. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye.

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