← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
11/13/25: WH Refuses To Post Job Data, Israeli Owned Landlord Behind Evictions, Wall St Hysterical Over Lina Khan, Starbucks Strike
01:06:14
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- [00:00]
Michelle Eisen
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [00:09]
Sagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [00:15]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [00:19]
Sagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.
- [00:25]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
NBC News brings you clear reporting.
- [00:27]
Sagar Enjeti
Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [00:36]
Michelle Eisen
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- [01:05]
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- [01:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Hey, guys. Sagar and Krystal here.
- [01:36]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:43]
Sagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:49]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:00]
Sagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com all right, let's get to the job, shall we?
- [02:07]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. So Emily and I covered yesterday this ADP report that came out that said that there were roughly 10,000 jobs being lost every single week in October. And that report has taken on a lot more significance because due to the government shutdown, we aren't getting government data. So we have to rely on people like ADP who are compiling data. So yesterday, Caroline Levitt was getting asked about, hey, you know, when might we see some actual official government jobs numbers. And she revealed we may just never actually release the October jobs report. So let's take a listen to that. The Democrat shutdown made it extraordinarily difficult for economic economists, investors and policymakers at the Federal Reserve to receive critical government data. The Democrats may have permanently damaged the federal statistical system with October CPI and.
- [02:58]
Michelle Eisen
And jobs reports likely never being released. And all of that economic data released.
- [03:03]
Krystal Ball
Will be permanently impaired, leaving our policymakers.
- [03:06]
Michelle Eisen
At the Fed flying blind at a critical period.
- [03:09]
Krystal Ball
So she's saying not only are they not releasing those past numbers, but they may have permanently damaged the systems. Pretty wild, Sagar, at a time when I think people are very interested in what direction the economy is at it.
- [03:23]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, they're like, oh, we just can't release the data. Especially after they've helped fire the BLS commissioner and now their new commissioner isn't going to get the votes. So it's just. Yeah, interesting, isn't it? Look, in general, even with some of these stats, it's almost not even necessary when the only stat that matters is the consumer sentiment. Consumers are saying that this is the worst economy in 20 years. Okay, I believe them. Like at the end of the day, I don't think that people are delusional whenever it comes to consumer sentiment which is based on expectations and based on reality as well as the lack of change over the last few five years. At every structural level, life is shit. I just think that that's basic and it doesn't take a genius or some BLS month by month data to look at it and just look at the basics of healthcare, of home and daycare or childcare or any of those three things, groceries as well, and be like, okay, obviously things are not trending in the right direction. Also at the same time the AI stuff just hovers above all of us entirely. Billions of dollars moving and changing hands with no expectation of real profit and the real of a genuine crash. Put this up here on the screen. Like for example, just show you how crazy shit is getting. So SoftBank Masaoshi San SoftBank has sold some 5.8 billion of their stake in Nvidia to pay for open air deals. Okay, so he sold his stake in Nvidia according to their more recent quarterly report in order to help fund their $30 billion spending plans alone just on OpenAI. So they sold at AI basic stock in order to fund other AI deals. This is billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars. We're talking about 100 billion alone that's pledged just to spend on projects here in the US and the thing is, is remember with stocks, this is what we talked about with Palantir, with Nvidia and everything, everything is built on future value, on expectations. So I mean, one of the things I just can't get away from is this is not.com in that some of these companies, it's not that they're making no money. OpenAI is making a good amount of money. They're making 20 million, $20 billion a year, roughly on target. But the thing is, is they have a trillion dollars that they have to spend in the next 10 years. And so for their expectations to meet reality, they're making it so that you have like a mo, you know, a pretty successful company. But the value, the inflated value that's propping the whole market up and everything is about exponential growth for the next 10 years with an expectation of value of 6,700 billion in the future. That would be more than any other company in human history. So you're like, okay, I mean that's, that's literally the delusion that you have to believe. So I'm not saying it's.com as in it's not diapers.com or pets.com or any of these places where, you know, it's totally out of whack. They do make a lot of money. But the problem is that the valuation is made. So it's not. You can't just be successful. Like, why can't you just take the win? Yeah, we make 20 billion and be valued normally they have to be valued as if they're a trillion dollar company. And so when you crash even back to reality, all of us will still suffer because of the, because of the way that market ripples, interest rates, you know how many other. Oh my God, I was reading today life insurance companies, a quarter or something of life insurance is parked in some AI or data center bets. Right? So, yeah, what if people will die? Right.
- [06:47]
Krystal Ball
We don't even.
- [06:47]
Sagar Enjeti
And you have to pay that out. Remember aig, all of that, like, it's all, nothing has changed. It's all deeply interconnected.
- [06:53]
Krystal Ball
I honestly, I think it's vastly worse than the dot com I do because of the amount of money that we're talking about here and because of how much shittier our economy is now. Like, you know, back in 2000, we still, there was more stuff that we still, we still had more of a real economy, of course. Right. We were only partially in the six years in neoliberal destruction of any real actual economic activity. Now we're in this, you know, la la land of just complete financialization and fantasy where our entire economy is a bet on AI. And so, and the center of the whole thing is Nvidia, right? You've all seen the chart of like, here's Nvidia and here's all the arrows going circular to this one and back to that one and whatever. Nvidia is the center of all of that. And so that's why when SoftBank, who was a major player, major investor in the space, like major investor in the space, when they're like, we're selling all of our stake in Nvidia, people are like, hmm. Now as Sagar said, what, what they're saying is basically like, look, we need the cash because we're, we're still all in on AI. This is, we need the cash because we committed to open AI, that we're going to make this investment. So this is how we're doing. It has nothing to do with our assessment of Nvidia, but it still was very head scratching for people at a moment when a lot of analysts are looking at what's going on in AI and saying this looks like a giant bubble. And just ask yourself this question as I was talking about how much, how wild the valuations are and how much exponential growth in revenue they would need to be able to actually like fund the build out that they've committed to. We talked about this before. It would take like every single iPhone user on the planet $34 of revenue for them, for them to meet revenue projections, et cetera.
- [08:42]
Sagar Enjeti
I haven't.
- [08:43]
Krystal Ball
And then ask yourself the question, ask Yourself the different ChatGPT models that are coming out, are they exponentially better? They're like modest improvements one over another. And the story of AI is that as it gets better, the improvement goes exponential because as the AI improves and the AI can start to train itself. Now what you could say is, okay, well, that only that exponential curve, that really happens when you hit AGI and then you've got the AIs training the other AIs and that's when you get to this exponential growth curve. But you know, if you're looking for indications that the promise here may not match the reality of where we are, I think one very important indication is that after the chat bots came online and the initial shock of like these LLMs and how much improved they are over ordinary search and all the things they can do and all the research that they're capable of processing and all of that, they have not really improved that Much. There's still tons of hallucinations. I was asking Grok yesterday for, hey, what's out there in the Epstein files that were just released that's about Trump? Just every reference that has been flagged. Can you pull it for me? The only things it pulled were the three initial emails that the Democrats had released. And then when I pushed it, it was like, no, this is it. So, I mean, and I'm sure you guys experience if you use any of these ChatGPT or GROG or whatever you use, they hallucinate and make shit up all the time. So, again, if this is going to be. If this is going to justify the spend and the valuations and all of the hype and the hysteria and the incredible mass bet that our society, that thanks to our political leadership, our society has placed on these things, you would think that they would be improving pretty dramatically over this time period. And we just aren't really seeing that.
- [10:42]
Sagar Enjeti
I said yesterday, cure cancer or get out. You know, it's one of the. That's what you said was gonna happen in the interim. If you're just doing pornography and data.
- [10:50]
Krystal Ball
Science and like a glorified Google search.
- [10:53]
Sagar Enjeti
Look, I mean, let's not discount it too much. It's cool. I like, especially for math. Like, I use ChatGPT for math a lot, but all of stuff I could do in Excel. It's just that I don't have to do the actual, like, formulas there. Right. And I specifically use it for, like, personal finance. But. But to say that you should totally trust it. I'm telling you, as you just said. Oh, absolutely. I'm talking about basic shit, like, absolutely. I remember once I was like, hey, when I was looking at super bowl statistics, like some NFL stuff, and I was like, well, who won the super bowl in this year? They just said the wrong team. I was like, that's not true. And you're like, oh, yeah, you're right. You're like, what? That's impossible. It's one of those where, like, you'll say, that's not true. Recheck it. And they're like, yep, you're right. I've done that with math all the time. Especially if you're using, like, complex stuff. If you ever want to go and calculate, you know, we talk about mortgages here all the time. So I'm constantly in chatgpt and be like, oh, if I have a 6% mortgage and this, this and this, just to be able to talk about it on the show, their math is wrong. Like, 25% of the time, like all the time. It's just totally wrong.
- [11:49]
Krystal Ball
Well, and it was, these AI agents were supposed to be like this huge game changer in terms of, oh, that's what's going to like you know, really revolutionize and you know, in the corporate space and whatever. And we're going to talk about, I mean I do think that there is AI job loss and I think they're in particular companies are assuming they're going to be able to use AI to replace entry level workers, even though they haven't really figured out how to do that yet. So they're just hiring fewer people based on their assumption they're going to be able to figure that out. But in any case, the AI agents have not been, that's not been a game changer either. So I mean to me the best possible case is that it doesn't ever reach AGI, that it's sort of like self driving vehicles where it gets up to a point and then the growth and the trajectory really stalls out. It's very difficult to solve that like last mile of the problem. That's actually my hope because I think AGI is such an incredible like looming disaster for humanity. And Matt Walsh apparently agrees with us on that. I saw him posting, well, my buddy.
- [12:50]
Sagar Enjeti
John Coogan has described it as, he's like, okay, maybe it won't be AGI, but it could be like the credit card where you know, like frictionless payments, that was good, you know, and then he creates more revenue and you know, the frictionless payment means that some companies can accept. I was like, yeah, that's all great but that's not curing cancer, you know what I'm saying?
- [13:06]
Michelle Eisen
Right.
- [13:06]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, and I'm fine with that actually. I have no issue like with a better math machine.
- [13:09]
Michelle Eisen
Cool.
- [13:10]
Sagar Enjeti
That's, I like that better. Google not worth where it currently is. And that's my fear.
- [13:15]
Krystal Ball
I mean my, my fear is that, I mean my, my biggest fear is that they do achieve their goals and try to replace all workers. Because you know what, what is better than like a union busted, low wage workforce that you can exploit and abuse is no workforce whatsoever. That's the ultimate capitalist dream. And that's what they're aiming for, that's what they're driving for, is to make all of us absolutely irrelevant. So I hope that progress stalls out and that it never reaches that capacity. Put C4 up on the screen. This speaks to that. So deep seek leadership here warning that AI could eliminate most jobs in the next 10 to 20 years. Deep Seek of course, being that Chinese based LLM which really sort of shocked the world with its prowess and operates much more efficiently requiring much lower levels of compute, doesn't require all of this like mass data center build out that we've seen here. In any case, he says during this period societal structures will also be greatly challenged. Tech companies should play the role of guardians of humanity. At the very least protecting human safety than helping to reshape societal order. I don't know, I'm not feeling too good about letting like Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman and Elon Musk and Peter Thiel be the guardians of humanity. Not feeling great about that direction.
- [14:31]
Sagar Enjeti
Me personally or the ccp if they win the AI race, right? It's like neither of these particularly any.
- [14:38]
Krystal Ball
Human being, even the best person I could, most intelligent person I could think of, I don't really want that kind of power consolidated in any one person. So when you see someone making these sorts of pronouncements and he's far from the only one, you can see this from any number of these tech barons who are leading the charge here. This is their expectation and it's their goal. And they're talking openly about how they are working to upend society completely. And I think people are just starting to gain awareness of what their long game really is. And it's hard to wrap your head around cause it seems preposterous, right? Especially when you're just messing around with chatgpt and Grok and it's giving you bullshit wrong answers. You're like, this stuff is never gonna be that transformational. I hope that's true. But you know, the people who are involved closely in working on this think, think very differently. We have to take that seriously.
- [15:29]
Sagar Enjeti
Of course you take it seriously 100%. And I think just the diff, the reason why AI is having so much backlash right now is because like people are just not happy with the economy. Go put B8 up here on the screen. They don't like the idea that tech titans are going to control their entire destiny. B8 please, just to show everybody. So how's the economy doing? Corporations say better than ever. Workers and consumers are saying, I'm in hell. Corporate confidence in the economy is running close to a 20 year high while unemployment expectations are closing in on a 40 year high. You just can't get away from this stuff. And in general people are correct. You know, just to back up your point, what you were saying earlier, can we put B6 on the screen just to show you if you read this JP Morgan report to drive a 10% return on our Modeled AI investments for the 2030 would require 650 billion of annual revenue in perpetuity, which equates to $34.72 a month from every current iPhone user.
- [16:25]
Krystal Ball
Just let that sink.
- [16:26]
Sagar Enjeti
That's what they're building their current PE ratios and you know, investments on. It's just not gonna happen. B7 then just to back up as well, the AI boom quote is looking more fragile than ever. Where they look at the current versus the three month high and they also talk specifically about losses. OpenAI is currently projecting that losses will swell to 74 billion in 2028. This is what I said earlier. You guys are making $20 billion a year. 20 billion, that's cool, right? That's a big ass business. But your capex is 74 billion in losses in 2028 even with modeled increase in your overall profit. And the Journal, you know, they're actually doing a great job just by highlighting all of this is that you know, right now investors are currently expected to stomach $150 billion alone in OpenAI losses. $150 billion alone in OpenAI Losses. And that is where the ChatGpts of the world and others are basically just saying, yeah, we know it's not that great right now, but it's going to get better. You have to bank on exponential growth and all of this. And I'm just sorry, like I don't buy it. I don't think a lot of other people should buy it. And in the interim, what will happen is a crash. Like an epic crash. It could be just like. Or it could be 2007. The ripple effects will be devastating for everybody else. Remember, the bankers were all mostly fine after 2008. Nobody. It's not even just about jail. They're all actually rich. Like if they just, if they held out like those are some of the richest people in America right now. And so even people who are like, well I didn't have anything to do with mortgage backed securities or even if you never took out a subprime loan, well, if your commercial paper got screwed and you got laid off, you still got affected by it. That's what's gonna happen. That's actually what's going to happen. And I talked about the life insurance stuff, the people who are tied up in this pension funds. If you think Dodd Frank fixed anything, I have a bridge to sell you or I have a car to sell you a 25% interest.
- [18:24]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, the something I really was thinking about yesterday and that The Derek Thompson piece we had about how corporations are like, you know, they're feeling great, their sentiment is an all time high and consumer sentiment is an all time low is, you know, used to be that I think there was a good case that you could like good free market case you could make that like if you give the corporations what they want, they're gonna grow, there's gonna be more jobs that's gonna benefit America more broadly. It was like what's good for GM is good for America. Like that sentiment, it wasn't totally true, but it had some truth.
- [18:58]
Sagar Enjeti
It was a lot more true than AI is now.
- [19:01]
Krystal Ball
Now the best thing you can do as a corporation is to lay off your workers, right? I mean it's always been the case that those sort of cost cutting is rewarded. But I think the relationship between how your average American is doing and how corporations are doing, it's not only not correlated anymore, they're actually directly at odds with one another. So the better that corporations are doing in the stock market, the worse that your average person is doing. And AI makes it so that that is like dramatically obviously true. We can put C5 up on the screens talking about these like Gen Z workers who are coming into the job market right now. And they talked to one of the bosses, gave the New Yorker this quote, there's just no reason to deal with young employees. AI is taking entry level jobs. What happens when Gen Zers can't start their careers? Starts off with this truly heartbreaking story about this guy who did the whole thing, went to a good college, gets the job at the consulting firm. And what is his job? His job is to go in and help different companies like Automate use implement AI to automate certain processes so that they don't need as many workers. And then lo and behold, he automates himself out of existence. You know, it's the modern day version. Reminded me of that ad that Obama did famously against Mitt Romney where the guys like build built the stage on which their own layoffs were announced. It's sort of like the AI version of that. He built out the automated processes that allowed his own firm where he was a high performer because he was really great at using, you know, building out these AI processes for different companies. He built out the process that replaced himself. And so like I was saying before, even if companies haven't totally figured out how to replace entry level workers with AI, they assume they're going to and they're very uncertain about the state of the economy right now anyway. Tariffs and Trump and Things feel a little wobbly and not sure that we wanna bring on a bunch of people right now. Anyway, so the zoomers are coming outta college. Increasingly there just isn't that entry level work. And so if you never go through that process of doing the shit work of the I'm gonna compile the spreadsheets and do the analysis and crunch the numbers for the higher ups, how does that work? What does that even look like in terms of a workforce? So, you know, these are dynamics that are already taking hold at a time when the AI promise has not reached its full fruition or anything close to what is being ultimately promised.
- [21:39]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, exactly. With the scut work. Yeah, no, like the whole. No, all entry level work is scut. And the whole reason is not to gain skill. It's to acclimatize to the workplace. It's to like learn basic norms about how to send emails and what it's like to be an adult. Like that's 95% of it, you know. And what you do is through osmosis, you see other people do a little bit more complicated and you're like, oh, that's how you approach that. And then slowly you get handed a little bit of responsibility. But I mean, what does everybody who ever wants to join the workforce say? I just need an opportunity to learn a little bit of something. That's it. That's what you're ultimately hiring for. Especially when you're looking at a 22 year old straight out of college or an 18, 19 year old who's coming out of trade school. No one's hiring you for your skill, it's for your ability to learn. That's it. And so if you take that out, it's devastating. You know, I think for a lot of younger people, I turned off news altogether.
- [22:32]
Krystal Ball
I hate to say it, but I.
- [22:34]
Michelle Eisen
Don'T trust much of anything.
- [22:37]
Sagar Enjeti
It's the rage bait.
- [22:39]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [22:43]
Sagar Enjeti
If we got clear facts, maybe we can calm down a little.
- [22:49]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
NBC News brings you clear reporting.
- [22:52]
Sagar Enjeti
Let's meet at the facts. Let's meet the at. Move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [22:59]
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- [23:29]
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- [24:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, let's move to landlord, shall we? I've been wanting to cover this story. I just think, I mean again, classic. Just nobody wants to touch it because of spooky labels around antisemitism, et cetera. Let's just say from the top, this is not in any way anti Semitic. What we are trying to is just cover the story of housing, which the nation highlighted in a way that I have seen very rarely reported on from the New York Times or from anybody else. So they're the people who did the work and so they're gonna get the credit for it. And of course the only reason that it's not being able to be published anywhere else is cause people are afraid of being criticized. So let's put this up here on the screen. What the nation did is highlighted quote the Eviction Kings, one of Israel's biggest companies. How is taking over huge swaths of US Real estate and how tenants are paying the price. So they specifically highlight these stories about how a company, for example, they highlight this one person who went down during an eviction hearing and they say, how did you get to court? Quote, he could have told her about the company that brought Conrad at Concord mills in Charlotte, North Carolina in March of 2022, the one that they had installed a new slew of gadgets that he said he didn't need before raising rent by nearly 400amonth. He could have told her about eviction notices that the company kept filing against him. The ones that came, he says, with an onslaught of fees that virtually guaranteed he'd never be able to fully back into his feet. He could have told her about the act that ended up tearing up his leg two weeks prior, causing him to need help just to get from his park truck into the courtroom, talked about going through it because he had nowhere else to go. In the eyes of the court, it didn't matter. He owed Money that he didn't have. So he was thrown out May of 2024 and spent the following months homeless, showering at rest stop, sleeping in his truck. And what he specifically talks about is his company, referred to as American Landmark, a major corporate landlord with some 34,000 units concentrated in 111 mega complexes like Conrad, across eight southern states, North Carolina, Florida and Tex. Nearly two thirds of properties purchased after the COVID pandemic began. And the company with private equity structure that allows investors from all over the world to bet on the growth of a real estate portfolio. It is now America's 34th largest landlord, they say based on a review by the Nation and type investigations of thousands of records from dozens of properties, as well as an interview with its CEO, it's clear that the company model inevitably leads to frequent displacements of tenants. And specifically what they all sue is they look at some 43 different tenants who faced eviction notices from across the American south and the Sun Belt. They report a wide array of issues that they say led to their case and specifically to get to the Israel connection. What they say is that because American Landmark is owned entirely almost by Elko, one of Israel's largest corporations. For years, Elko, via its electric super brand has done extensive business, quote in Israeli settlements in west bank and East Jerusalem. And they drive many thousands of Palestinians obviously from there. Elgo has maintained deep ties to the Israeli military and of course has been long part of like the Israeli establishment. You can say all of that objectively. This is an objective fact that you have a landlord here which is operating in the US and one of the reasons I think that this is worth highlighting is the problem of corporatized landlordization in the first place. No one is saying Israel controls everything. I want to be very clear about that. It's a 34th largest landlord. But it's emblematic to me and I thought of this Nation story in the same way that we can worry about Chinese purchases of large swaths of farmland or any foreigners. By the way, anybody ever go down to Miami? Do you know what percent of Miami is owned by people with foreign addresses? It's crazy. New York City, San Diego, Los Angeles, Chicago, here in D.C. foreign ownership of land is a huge problem and especially when it turns into a financialized instrument like in these big mega towers across the the Sun Belt. One of the promises of the Sun Belt is it's cheaper to live there. That's why a lot of people move down there. Well, you know what's happening is they're all getting rolled up into these giant equity investments for private equity that's yielding money now to who knows who, from Israeli companies to Chinese companies, Russian companies, sketchy Brazilian companies, money laundering from all across the world. And the people paying the price are us who have to pay a couple thousand dollars a month in rent and who are having gadgets and all these other things put in there. So I thought it was just a good piece to demonstrate how when you have this financialization plus internationalization of America's housing market, this is the end result.
- [28:23]
Krystal Ball
Ultimately and the other connection here, I mean, the fact that this company is so deeply involved in what are illegal settlements in the occupied west bank and Jerusalem. Think of what they're doing there. They're actively pushing Palestinians off of their land. And then think of what they're doing here, which is what the Nation documents is they're using all these additional fees and tricks to push Americans now out of their homes and at nine times the rate of your average landlord. And you know, this is what a lot of big management companies want to do. They like to push people out of their houses. Why? Because in a lot of places you have restrictions on how much you can hike the rent. So long as someone is occupying that apartment when they leave, you can jack up the rent much further. We've actually seen this with some of these ICE raids like the apartment building in Chicago. There's some indications that what happened there is you had a sleazy slumlord from out of state, not out of country, but from out of state, who wanted to kick a bunch of tenants out of the building to make it easier on them so they could, you know, reset the rates. And so what they did was effectively like call in ICE to clear everybody out of that building. And you know, that appears to be part of what it looks like. That may have been the story too with that whole trender Aragua apartment building in Colorado as well. So there are lots of tricks that landlords use to try to kick people out of their apartments so that they can hike up the rent even further than they would otherwise be allowed to do. And what this documents is this Israeli company is apparently like they have really innovated in terms of the tactics that they use, the predatory, exploitative tactics that they use to make it so people cannot stay, cannot possibly afford the fees and the add on additions in order to stay in their apartment. And so they end up out on the street. I mean, this is why when we talk about the first of all, I think it's immoral to work With a company that is, you know, participating in the illegal settlements in the west bank, that's number one. But number two, you know, when we talk about the housing market and we think about like the abundance style solutions where you're just, you know, trying to relieve permitting issues and build out more, it's like, yes, that is part of the problem. But if you're not confronting these issues with, you know, entrenched capital interests, then you're only dealing with one sliver of what the issue is here. You have to tackle all of these problems, and this is certainly one of them. The other one, you know, that we've talked about before is like the algorithmic price fixing in the rental market as well. And you know, the rental market and the home ownership markets can be deeply connected in terms of what people are able to afford. So in any case, you know, there you go. This Israeli company that works in the settlements, kicking Palestinians off of their land, also working here at home to kick you and other Americans out of your home.
- [31:32]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. And I think what it highlights is just how structural it is, how difficult it is to even get your foot in the door here. You just have to be extraordinarily lucky if you wanna make it in a high cost of living today. Good luck, man. Seriously. And I hate to say that I really do, because the promise of cities was that people could come here if they wanted to. Unlike Ben Shapiro. Not saying you have to leave if you're bored, but the promise always is like, this is where the action happens and the network effects and you get to meet people, but you can't do that and then stay for a while. If you make it so that Only the top 1% are the people who can afford to live there. That's sick. Actually. It's really.
- [32:15]
Krystal Ball
Or that you have to move when you have kids. Cause there's just no way that you could afford to raise a family.
- [32:19]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, that.
- [32:20]
Krystal Ball
Really hollows out the heart and soul of a place. One of my buddies is just completely childless.
- [32:24]
Sagar Enjeti
I was just talking to one of my buddies. All right, Here in Northern Virginia, we have the most expensive county for the first five years of daycare. Daycare cost right now arlington, Virginia is $146,000 over five years. 150 grand for five years. All right? What's the point of even fucking working at that point? What's your after tax income whenever you look at daycare and then, oh, but if your wife doesn't work that 20 year, or your husband, I don't Judge, you know, whoever doesn't want to work. Whoever doesn't want to work. Oh, well, then good luck saving up for your down payment. And if you do happen to have a down payment, guess what? The boomer down the street, he's got cash in his portfolio and he's gonna buy you out and he's gonna make sure that you don't even have a chance. And then you're gonna end up living 95 minutes outside of town in a three bedroom rancher built in 1960 with the luck of living on a quarter acre lot. If you can afford it and if you overcome everything I just discussed, put D2 up here on the screen. For example, the median age of a U.S. home buyer is now 61 years old. Okay, 61. All right. The share of first time buyers has now fallen to a record low of 21%. Does anyone wanna riddle that one for me? And you know, everybody gets mad at me about my war on boomers and talking about property tax and all this is why 61, that's the median. Does everyone remember median from elementary school? So what does that tell you about the number of people over the median who are over the age of 61 who are purchasing houses and how skewed the market is? This is like called, this is literally the grounds for like violent representation revolution. Whenever we talk about landlords, property ownership and you people, like, I'm the nice version of what's coming, just so you all understand, like, and they're trying to pass this stuff, exempting themselves from property tax and from school tax to make so that not only can you not afford a house, but they don't have to pay for your children's school. Like they, they don't get it. 61 is insane. That is a sign of the sickest society on earth that prioritizes people who are on their way out instead of the people who are on their way in. And it's not just for me. Okay? I'm okay. But I know too many people who are not okay who have to make really difficult choices. And in very often they either have to leave their job or leave the place where they actually want to live because it's way too expensive. And structurally things are not designed for your flourishing. Whenever you have children versus when you're older in the country, you cannot look at that chart and tell me otherwise. And this landlord story is definitely part of it. I mean, here in Washington, people, I literally know people paying 3, $4,000 a month in rent, $48,000 a year after tax, Income, I'm talking not that, like two, three bedrooms. All right? Not big. And these corporatized places, it's the same thing. They slap you with all these fees and, you know, they're constantly a gym and a pool and all this other stuff. And the next thing you look. No, if you look at the itemization of all this stuff for increase in rent, that's where it all goes. And then apparently it's being pushed by all of this. How are you supposed to work your way out of it? I genuinely don't see a way that you can. And these are people who are all making good money. That's the craziest part. So what if you're not making good money, then what do you do? You just do what?
- [35:35]
Michelle Eisen
Leave.
- [35:35]
Krystal Ball
And then they're like, I can't believe these young people voted for Zoron. He's such a radical. Like, you're lucky that that's what they're doing.
- [35:43]
Sagar Enjeti
You're lucky Zoran's a nice person. The mean version. Yeah, we'll leave it at.
- [35:48]
Krystal Ball
Hopefully we're not gonna find out, but at least Trump is solving it with the 50 year mortgage. So then that's gonna make everything better. Yeah.
- [35:55]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [35:56]
Krystal Ball
Well, apparently the idea was so terrible, we put C3 up on or D3 up on the screen. Apparently the idea was so terrible that even, like, you know, within the White House, they were like, what the hell are we talking about here? Proposal wasn't fully vetted by top Trump administration officials. Apparently this guy, the same. What's his name? Pulte. The same guy, yeah, Bill Pulte, who's like scouring records to find how Letitia James checked the wrong box one time on some mortgage application and is using that to gin up charges against Trump's enemies. That same guy is the one who came to Trump with this meme about FDR did the 30 year mortgage and so you're gonna do the 50 year mortgage and you're both great presidents. And Trump just saw that and was like, yeah, great. Love that. Love that idea. And I don't know if I've ever seen such immediate sort of horror, visceral horror, at a wonky policy proposal from across the ideological spectrum, as I've seen at this.
- [36:52]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, we're coming off of the cost of living 2025 backlash, the Zoran Mamdani election in New York City. And what we're also looking at here is this is the question of our time. Like, I really am coming back to this. Can we pull over an element. I didn't get to it in our last block. C3, please just pull it over here. I've referenced it a couple of times here on the show, but this is that study which says that rising housing costs have caused some 51% of the total fertility rate decline between the 2000s and the 2010s and some 7 percentage points fewer young families in the 2010s. That will only be compounded by a factor of like 5, considering the 50% increase in housing that has come since 2021 alone and from Gen Z and younger millennials, people like myself. So if you put that together and you can just see the existential nature through which lack of property ownership, lack of stake and lack of hope for people have for a foundation of the future, it is not a surprise of not only politics, but of like everything. And I, you know, I have all these boomers in my replies who are always like, well, you have no idea. If you look at, you know, housing and costs and all that, guys, look, facts are real. You can go and look. The average home price home buyer in 1985 was 29 years old. Remember that graphic I used to put up all the time about 1971, where if you look at the median wage, medium home price, medium cost of car and everything, it was just dramatically more affordable. I won't be lectured by people who were literally able to buy a home in the 1980s and then experience the bull markets of the 1990s and made an absolute shit pot of money and then are using the political system to their own benefit and to lobby for property tax deduction, free Social Security, free healthcare and every other free thing that they can possibly think of. So I don't know, I look at that study, I look at the modern election, like you said with Zoran. They're calling him radical. I mean, in my opinion, it's nothing compared to what is coming.
- [38:52]
Krystal Ball
I mean, his policy platform actually is quite moderate. Like if you poll the entire population, every single one of the things his that he, his court promises that he ran on gets majority support. So he is actually the median, like the moderate in terms of where the population is. I think you have another update for us though. Sagar is really influence on our.
- [39:12]
Sagar Enjeti
I've been wanting to, I've been wanting to cover this for a while since we broke that story about Alexandrovich. Just an update for everybody. Let's put it up here on the screen in case I have not forgotten, please. I've not forgotten about the story I do still track it and I have people in Vegas who send me tips a little bit about this. Put D4 up there on the screen just so I can break it down. You'll remember Tom Alexandrovich, the Israeli cybersecurity official who was ensnared in a bust where Las Vegas PD and HSI at the Homeland Security Agency teamed up, where they were chatting with men on these apps proposing as underage teenagers, in this case a 15 year old girl. And basically luring these individuals in for an operation to try and get people would be pedophiles off the streets. And so this is really official. Tom Alexandrovich was taken into custody. He admits under waves his Miranda rights. He admits in the interrogation, starts dropping all these hints about meeting with the FBI, meeting with the nsa, immediately flies back to Israel. After posting bail, he appears via Zoom in court from Israel. And his most recent defense all hinges on app verification. Okay, so the lawyers, by the way, very pro Israel lawyers who are representing this man in Vegas are challenging the undercover officer because they're saying that because the apps terms of service say that you have to be 18 to use it. That he had reason to believe that the person he was chatting with was 18 years old belies the fact that in the transcript they're like, I'm 15, like they say. So like I am 15 years old. And he under again. You can go and read the docs that I released. Abe waves his Miranda and basically admits to it while he's testifying or not testifying. But he's being questioned, presumably not on the initial interview, in the interview with FBI officials. It's all out there, you know, directly. A second officer testified that a source shown to Alexandrovich in the video call said they said quote, of age just over 18. The decoy literally said, quote, I'm only 15, I'm only 15. I'm not allowed in over since I'm only 15. Said it twice in the transcript, according to the grand jury's documents that have been released. So. So during the interview, Alexandrovich is saying, well, she pushed me to show up in an Uber with a condom in my pocket. Okay, it's Tigger Cirque du Soleil. So good luck with that in court. I don't know, I mean, could work. He has remained out of custody and out of the country. He's on a $10,000 bail and the Clark County District judge will be hearing petitions on November 24. Trial is scheduled for March. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. And remember, all of this is happening to all of this is happening in absentia. He's not here. He's not committed to coming back. It's all coming via Zoom. The judge actually admonished the lawyer earlier for not appearing even via Zoom and saying that the lawyer needed his, you know, her needed permission for all of this. So we're still following the case and the Israelis and other people are just hoping this stuff will go away. But we will continue to keep you guys updated.
- [42:28]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [42:32]
Michelle Eisen
Don'T trust much of anything.
- [42:35]
Sagar Enjeti
It's the rage bait.
- [42:37]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [42:41]
Sagar Enjeti
If we got clear facts, maybe we can calm down a little.
- [42:47]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
NBC News brings you clear reporting.
- [42:50]
Sagar Enjeti
Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [42:57]
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- [43:58]
Krystal Ball
All right, well, we were talking about Zoran before. Let's go ahead and check in on how the Wall street types are handling his victory in New York City.
- [44:06]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
Here is CNBC wealthy who might be looking for a therapist after yesterday's election. And more importantly, we're looking for therapy. When they heard that Lina Khan. Yes. Was joining the transition team. Which just goes to show you, looking back at the Biden administration, I mean she had a very important job in.
- [44:27]
Sagar Enjeti
The and we had her on all the time and hung.
- [44:29]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
I think we should have her back and talk about.
- [44:31]
Sagar Enjeti
We'll have her back.
- [44:32]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
So let's Just.
- [44:33]
Krystal Ball
Let's just know.
- [44:33]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, so as long as we know.
- [44:36]
Krystal Ball
What I mean, she is a.
- [44:39]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
Sure. No, but that's what I'm saying.
- [44:40]
Sagar Enjeti
She was running a very important.
- [44:43]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
Yes. Well, no, I wonder what. I wonder what it portends for business in New York. It was funny.
- [44:49]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, it's great for business.
- [44:50]
Michelle Eisen
Awesome.
- [44:51]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
A number of business leaders in New York reached out to me yesterday. I was traveling back from London, and it wasn't even the election result itself. It was when. It was when this Lina Khan announcement was made. It was like they. They were sort of, like, frozen in place and talked. I mean, some of the texting and back and forth was more about sort of what had happened to the merger business. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of bankers in this city, financiers in this city, and sort of what the approach is. I don't know if she's going to a role in the future.
- [45:26]
Sagar Enjeti
What can she do, though?
- [45:27]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
I mean, future group or not. What my question was, this appears to nationalize a city mayoral staff.
- [45:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Right.
- [45:36]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
Instead of saying we're gonna operate the city as good managers, which is what the mayor's job is, it somehow makes.
- [45:42]
Sagar Enjeti
It seem like we're going to be.
- [45:44]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
A platform for some national ideological. I don't know.
- [45:48]
Krystal Ball
The way Lina Khan freaks these people out is absolutely amazing. And, of course, they're referring there to the fact that she's been named to be part of the Zoran transition team. And, I mean, it's just wild soccer, because, like, yeah, you would think she.
- [46:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Was some swashbuckling corporate destroyer. Like, look, no offense, Lena, I'm a f. You know, you definitely did some good work. But let's be honest about what really went down under the Biden administration.
- [46:10]
Krystal Ball
Like, I think by any reasonable metric, she was the most effective Biden administration official.
- [46:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [46:16]
Krystal Ball
Like, genuinely, like, trying to deliver, even if they're small victories for consumers also, you know, involved in these big, you know, pushback on these giant mergers. And that's why they absolutely hate her. I mean, the war on her from the Wall Street Journal that Matt Stoller tracked was unhinged. And so now not only they have Zoran, but they have Lina Khan in New York City, and they are just losing their minds. And, I mean, they ask a good question like, okay, well, what is she actually gonna be doing? Because when she's at the ftc, like, that makes sense. You're dealing with all of these giant mergers and pushing back on them, but what are you gonna do at the New York City level? And there's reporting from Semaphore this morning from Ben Smith that says, I'll just read you what they write here about how she's seeing her role in New York City. Lina Khan thinks beers at Yankee Stadium are too expensive and that she has the law on her side. Since the progressive antitrust crusader was added to Mayor Alexei Mamdani's transition team, the business community she harangued as chair of Joe Biden's Federal Trade Commission has been puzzling over what she might be up to. Local politics, after all, is a strange soapbox for trust busting where federal law reigns. Well, people familiar with the transition have an answer. Khan has been scouring city and state laws, some overlooked by past mayors and some too new to have been tested yet for legal footing for Mamdani's priorities. It's a skill set the Yale trained lawyer wielded while running the ftc, where she dusted off laws, some dating from the early 20th century, and sued companies under novel theories of harm. Excavating and enforcing the law is how one transition advisor put it. Lena herself spoke some to this recently.
- [47:49]
Michelle Eisen
Let's take a look at that coming from the ftc. I'm going to be especially focused on things like how do we make sure that we have a full accounting of all of the laws and authorities that the mayor can unilaterally deploy. I think one thing that was really shocking to me at the FTC was just how much dormant and unused and underused authorities had just been on the books. Like literally Congress had passed laws sometimes saying things as uncontroversial as it should be illegal to say your products are made in America when they aren't. And sometimes they had just been ignored by the FTC and not really enforced. So, you know, want to make sure that to the extent that the city has a robust set of laws that the mayor can enforce, that we're going and understanding what is the full authority.
- [48:37]
Krystal Ball
And I think it's, I think putting her on the transition team is very important, both substantively and as a signal because what she is good at is, like she said, scouring the laws to figure out where Zoron actually has power and what he can do to deal with even things like he talked about like the halal cart issues and the soccer tickets being too expensive for New York residents and those sorts of things that can improve quality of life and push back on some of the power of some of the local interest holders. So in a sense, I think they're kind of right to Be freaked out about her.
- [49:10]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes and no. I mean, it's one of those where look for them. I don't know. I don't understand these Wall street street guys. Did you guys not get filthy rich under the Biden administration? Like, what are we all. They literally act as if like she decapitated them. The S and P was up like 80% under the Biden administration.
- [49:26]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, but they.
- [49:26]
Sagar Enjeti
You're all very wealthy.
- [49:28]
Krystal Ball
Merger bonuses.
- [49:29]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay?
- [49:30]
Krystal Ball
I mean, and that's what I mean. That's a big part of why they hated her. And I mean, she was like, on the one hand, you know, we still live in a shitty, like, system with terrible rigged rules. Her view, though, was. Was somewhat revolutionary. I mean, we had had this counter revolution in terms of antitrust law basically being dormant, where as long as you could show that like you were lowering prices for consumers, then it didn't matter how big you were, it didn't matter how exploitative. It didn't matter if you were Amazon and screwing over all these third party sellers. The only relevant thing was price. And her view was. No, that you have to look at the broader picture here and see the way that these consolidation of power have important impacts not just on price, but on labor, on markets, on the ability for small businesses to compete. And so that was a dramatic change. I don't think they're wrong to feel like this was someone who was a real enemy, especially since she did not any longer, but did have some purchase both with the Democrats and with the Republicans. So I'm interested to see what she has to do. We can also check in on the Upper east side moms who are equally freaking out in a totally hysterical way, apparently on Facebook group chats about Zoran's election. Put E3 up on the screen. This was part of an entire article. E3 guys up on the screen. This is part of an entire article, I think, from New York magazine digging into these Facebook groups and their reaction. Upper east side, famously very, very wealthy, hence where Jeffrey Epstein had his mansion and went for Cuomo pretty solidly. And so they write here, after the New York City mayoral race was called for Zora on The night of November 4, the mothers of the Upper east side began began to panic. Shocked, one Facebook user wrote anonymously in the moms of the Upper east side group, which has 35,000 members. With all my love for New York City, I can't believe 50% plus of the city voted for this joker. Wondering who's actually leaving to where? Florida residents of the neighborhood synonymous with gilded Age mansions and tony private schools had voted for Cuomo, a staunch supporter of Israel who campaigned on a tough on crime agenda by a 24 point margin. The more than 300 comments responding to that anonymous post are full of mothers looking for property in New Jersey or Florida predicting that Mamdani's promise to make buses free will lead criminals to rape and kill innocent passengers and airing their worries that New York City is on its way to becoming 1930s Germany. I mean, the level of hysteria, like you can never point to a single thing this man has done or comment that he's made that would make you think he's somebody Sharia law implementing Islamist jihadist who just like hates Jews and is gonna massacre. I mean it's just completely hysterical insane thinking. And yet like I think they actually believe some of this crap. I think they have bought into the Greenblatt ADL line about who Zoran Mandani is.
- [52:27]
Sagar Enjeti
That's what I was gonna say. Let me. Well first of all, okay, let me split the difference. Cause the free bus thing is actually fair in terms of talking about criminals all over the New York City subway system. It's not exactly peachy in terms of homelessness on the New York City subway right now. So let's put that one to the side. Although even then again, saying raping and killing is like. I mean, it's like, let's, we can calm down. We can say that they're still aren't.
- [52:47]
Krystal Ball
Riding the fricking bus anyway. These wealthy ladies on the Upper east side, I guarantee you they haven't seen the inside of a public bus in New York City. They're on the top probably in their entire existence.
- [52:56]
Sagar Enjeti
Fair point. So let's just say let's protect poorer residents who rely on the bus from criminal homeless people. Okay, let's say that. And by the way, that will be a genuine problem for Zoron if the, the whole place gets overrun with a bunch of fentanyl addicts. That will actually be something that people should focus on now on the 1930s subway or the 1930s point. This is in my opinion, a massive indictment of the ADL and of the liberal Zionist media project in general. The free press, the adl, and all this because by the way, all these ladies, they're probably Democrats, okay? Or at least voted Democrat. Like a voted for Cuomo. They probably voted for Obama in 2008 and Eric Adams. Right, exactly. So like let's, let's be very clear about like who these people are. They are consuming a large like media apparatus which is built on exploiting as much fear of their past as possible. And I think that that's really irresponsible and deranged. And that's what's led to a lot of this. Like they're, they're actually spreading stuff saying like that. And by the way, this is not just about Zoron. It's also about people like me or like any others who speak out against the state of Israel. They're like, they are straight up anti Jewish, okay? That's what they like, they really believe like the pogrom stuff and like they're buying guns or like afraid for their lives. And like, I think that's really dangerous because the point that everyone's been trying to make from the beginning is like criticisms of the state of Israel is not Christian Jews, like period. And no matter how many times you say it, you still get branded as a literal Jew hater. And like I, I have experienced this like actually lost like people in my life and others who are like, dude, you hate Jews. And it's like, I don't, like, what do I have to say to convince you otherwise? Nothing actually. It turns out like no matter what I say, criticizing the Strait of Israel actually just whips them up into like such a state level of hysteria. I guess because of the way they were raised about, you know, Israel is the only place that we're safe and all, which I get. But you know, like, that doesn't mean that I have to buy into it.
- [54:58]
Krystal Ball
But like you live on the other east side.
- [55:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I know, it's like, but then you're pretty safe. That's the whole problem is it starts to break down. It's like, guys, you all live here, like, you know, it's a bit so safe and why don't you leave? Nobody's saying you have to stay. You know, it's like, if that's your homeland, then go, you know, we don't care actually. But the whole point is just that they have whipped themselves into a level of hysteria where they actually believe this. It's so deeply irresponsible. And the ADL and all those other people, they absolutely are to blame also because they're whipping them up, you know, the ADL and others for their own. Like they have a self interested reason, like because they're getting a bunch of donations they want. Like do you guys see how they actually prosper whenever people are afraid? That's the issue that I have with all of these like groups is that they've created this situation where some rich lady on the Upper west side or east side is like actually worried about the Jewish children. Like, I'm sorry, I don't think that that's a major concern with Zoran Mamai or frankly, in any major American city. I'll say it, I'll say it. Okay. I don't think it's a big problem if it's about an Israel thing that's a little bit different, but it's not, you know, most people, nobody really cares that much whether you're Jewish or Hindu or whatever. You can mostly walk down the street. I've traveled the whole country mostly, never had an issue. I don't know. Like, it's like, is that. Why is that. Why does that feel so. So that feels transgressive to say at this point. Like, they want you to believe that. It's like been whipped up to a.
- [56:24]
Krystal Ball
Crazy point at this point. I think there is a genuine rise of anti Semitism and I think it has everything to do with the practices of the ADL and the insistence that every Jewish person be conflated with this genocidal state of Israel and the insane censoriousness around any legitimate criticism of Israel whatsoever. Yeah, I do actually think that that is fueling a significant rise in anti sea. The rise of Nick Fuentes on the right and how many young conservatives buy into his genuinely neo Nazi views. Like, you know, these ladies and their hysteria are a small subset of what helps to feel that genuine anti Semitic rise in sentiment. And like I said, the insistence that every Jewish person is, you know, that Israel's their number one issue and that they're absolutely committed to this genocide that is being committed against Palestinian. But that's my point about that fuel actual racism.
- [57:12]
Sagar Enjeti
That's my point about the adl though, is that they like it. That's. They want people to be anti Semitic.
- [57:16]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. Because that's their business.
- [57:17]
Sagar Enjeti
Because that's the only way they can make money.
- [57:19]
Krystal Ball
Their business model, I mean, that's Israel's entire business model. Like the only way that like, the more anti Semitism there is, the more they can make their argument. That's why we have to say that have the Jewish state, et cetera.
- [57:30]
Sagar Enjeti
So these incentives, by the way, run in everything. How many years have I been talking about blm, ACLU and all these other places who profit off of like, you know, it's like the Human Rights Campaign. They were dead after the gay marriage happened. Oh, and then the trans thing became their billion dollar new cause. This is the case for all of these bullshit nonprofits just by the way. And so, like, that's my issue, is that they're basically doing the exact same WOKE playbook that they allegedly criticized people for all over the years. In a lot of ways, these people are the biggest snowflakes that exist. Read this shit. This is Snowflake behavior.
- [58:00]
Krystal Ball
Hysterical.
- [58:01]
Sagar Enjeti
100%. And by the way, if you don't want to worry about public buses, nobody forced you to live in New York City, okay? Nobody forced you to live in New York. You chose to actually live in an urban area.
- [58:12]
Michelle Eisen
Yeah.
- [58:13]
Sagar Enjeti
On beach. If you want to feel better. Right. If you don't want to worry about.
- [58:16]
Krystal Ball
I promise you, the rest of the city will not mourn.
- [58:18]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. You can live in a suburb and nobody would care. You're like. And I'm not. Look, everybody has a right to feel safe and all that. And like I said, I think that the free bus thing, you know, the left is going to have to contend with what it's like to actually have to live in a society and to police, like, violent thug behavior from people who are repeat criminals. Good luck with that, Zoron. We'll see if the BLM activists actually let you govern a city properly. But that is actually a very separate question than whether Jews are safe in New York City or not. The question, by the way, again, should be, is everyone safe in New York City? Why can't we just say that? Like, why can't everybody just be safe in New York City? And of course, it's like this. It's like this victim mentality that has been totally, totally propped up by this entire, like, NGO industrial complex, which, by the way, again, feeds this victimhood. It's sick, actually, because, you know why it's bad is, you know, I almost feel bad for them. Like, they're. They're living in a state of hysteria, like, online. That's horrible. That's a bad state of mind to be in. Anybody who's living that way, like, you need help for real, I don't know. I blame anybody.
- [59:24]
Krystal Ball
They can talk to their therapist about it.
- [59:26]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, yes, you're also right, by the way. Can I just say toniest? Private school. What a great word. I forgot the use of that word.
- [59:34]
Krystal Ball
The word Tony.
- [59:35]
Sagar Enjeti
The word Tony as describing aristocratic. That is a real throwback. So that's some good lexicon vocab.
- [59:42]
Krystal Ball
All right, well, speaking of class dynamics, I guess we'll say we've got. Joining us now a spokesperson for the Starbucks Workers United Union to make a big announcement. Let's get to that. All Right guys, we've got some big breaking labor news this morning. And so joining us to make a significant announcement is Michelle Eisen. She's the national spokesperson for Starbucks Workers United. She's also a more than 15 year plus barista at the Buffalo store, correct, Michelle?
- [60:11]
Michelle Eisen
Yes, I was at the Buffalo location, the first one to organize in the US back in 2021.
- [60:16]
Krystal Ball
Amazing. Well, welcome to the show and why don't you just let people know what you guys are up to.
- [60:22]
Michelle Eisen
So this morning, Starbucks baristas went out on our largest unfair labor practice strike. On the campaign to date. There are over 1000 baristas right now in front of their stores picketing, protesting the company's refusal to return to the bargaining table with new proposals that meet our remaining demands and their vicious union busting. And we are in over 40 cities currently and prepared to exit escalate accordingly if Starbucks does not respond to our demands.
- [60:52]
Sagar Enjeti
And so tell us a little bit about, you know, it's been several years. We covered the origins of the Starbucks unionization movement here. What's the life like been with the company, you know, acquiescing to certain demands. Have there been union busting? What's the relationship like right now with management?
- [61:07]
Michelle Eisen
Okay, well, it's been a wild ride. It's been four years. You're right, it has been a significant amount of time. I'm, it's unfortunate that I have to report that the company spent most of that time union busting, violating US labor law left and right. They are the most egregious violators of U.S. labor law in modern history. That's not debatable. They have found liable guilty over 400 times. ALJ judges across the country have found them guilty of violating workers rights over 400 times. There are over 700 pending unfair labor practice charges that have yet to be litigated. And just this year alone they committed 125 more. So back in 2024 the company approached the union and said, hey, we're done fighting. We want to reach an agreement. We are promising by the end of 2024 to reach a fair contract deal with our unionized workforce as well as resolve the outstanding legal issues. They have failed to do both of those things and instead continued to fight workers every step of the way and violate U.S. labor law. And workers are, are absolutely tired of it. There are a few remaining demands after nine solid months of bargaining back in 2024 that the company has just refused to give us any real proposals or solutions on. And those are more take home Pay, like making sure their workers can pay their bills, fixing the staffing issues in our stores, which are just atrocious. If you've gone into a Starbucks anytime recently, you'll see very understaffed stores. And at the meantime, at the same time, baristas are not, not being given the hours they need to pay their bills and then continuing to violate the law and refusing to resolve any of these unfair labor practices that are just hanging over their heads and really hurting the brand reputation, hurting their workers. And workers are ready to escalate accordingly. We set a time for the company. We launched the strike authorization vote a couple of weeks ago. We said you need to return to us with some resolutions by November 13, which is red Cup Day. It's an iconic day for the company. Here are our demands which have been very clear to you for the last six months. And they failed to return. So workers are in action right now and they're going to stay out there and they're going to get bigger and stronger until the company does return.
- [63:25]
Krystal Ball
How many stores do you have unionized at this point, Michelle?
- [63:28]
Michelle Eisen
We have won over 650 locations in 45 states and D.C. but unfortunately the company did announce that large round of store closures about a month ago. So There are currently 550 open union locations and that's over 11,000 Starbucks baristas that are unionized.
- [63:48]
Krystal Ball
And how is the treatment of the unionized stores and baristas compared to the non unionized?
- [63:54]
Michelle Eisen
Quite honestly, every Starbucks barista is suffering right now. All of the policies that have rolled out under Brian Niccol have only made workers jobless harder and they have not improved the environments in these stores. They have not improved the customer experience at all. Which is why we've actually only seen our organizing increase under the reign of Brian Niccol. We've organized over 160 stores I think just since he stepped into that role. So non union or union workers are recognizing that this company is not willing to step up and take care of them. They are willing to invest millions upon millions of dollars dollars in other places like $96 million pay package that Brian Niccol got for just the first four months of his employment with the company. They spent $81 million on a four day managers conference in Vegas this past June. So we know the company has money. They are obviously not hurting for money, but unfortunately they're not investing in their hourly workforce. The people who bring in that revenue, the people who create those relationships with the customers that get them to come back into these stores and spend money Every single day. They're just, they're not putting the money in the right place. And the unionized workers are fighting very hard to improve this business. Like, we want the company to be successful. We want the company to succeed. It would be counterproductive for us to not want that. And we've presented a lot of options to the company to help fix, fix these issues. Wouldn't it be nice to walk into a Starbucks for your peppermint mocha this holiday season and not have to wait 40 minutes, not have to see two or three baristas running around doing the job of five or six people because they simply have not allotted enough labor to cover the business that that store is doing. It's wild to me when we see or I hear a store manager say something like, oh, well, you know, people just don't want to work. There are baristas who are dying for hours, who are begging to be scheduled so that they can pay their bills so that they can qualify for these amazing benefits the company says they offer. And they're just simply not being scheduled. So this is not a matter of not having enough workers. It's a matter of not scheduling these workers enough to cover the needs of the business and to make sure that they have the ability to qualify for benefits and pay their, their bills. So many Starbucks baristas depend on SNAP and Medicaid. Why is a multi billion dollar corporation have employees that are subsidized by the government? That doesn't, that just doesn't compute.
- [66:25]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, right.
- [66:26]
Sagar Enjeti
Great point.
- [66:28]
Michelle Eisen
And so we're, we're just, we're done waiting around. Baristas are tired. This will get bigger. It will be the biggest and longest strike in company history if the company doesn't return to meet the demands. And we're, we're asking our allies to stand with us. For every single barista who is out there on the strike line, a dozen allies have committed to not cross the picket line and not shop at Starbucks while workers are on strike. That equates to tens of thousands of people who are not going to spend their money at Starbucks this holiday season. So this is a very clear message and we're ready. We're ready. We've been ready for months, we've been ready for years really, to settle this contract. We know it can be done for less than a single day's sales. It will cost less to settle a multi year contract with the union than less than one single day sales for this company. Less than they paid Brian Niccol by millions of dollars for the first four months of his employment less than they spent on this four day managers conference in Vegas, which was over $80 million.
- [67:33]
Krystal Ball
Michelle, tell us a little bit more about those allies who have committed to standing in solidarity with you. And then also finally, what are you asking of the public?
- [67:44]
Michelle Eisen
So we had a sign on letter that went out from a bunch of different organizations. I believe the total number was in the tens of millions of, they represented tens of millions of people. And they all said, you know, the folks we represent are committing to not cross the picket line should workers have to go on an unfair labor practice strike. And here we are and we're not going to spend our money at Starbucks, we're not going to buy gift cards for our kids, teachers, we're not going to go get our peppermint mocha, you know, while we're doing our holiday shopping. We're just going to stay away from Starbucks while workers are on strike. And so we've got student activists at their colleges doing the same thing, talking to their fellow peers, talking to their administrations about not having Starbucks products on their campuses. And we've got labor allies, we've got the entire US labor movement, we've got the global labor movement standing behind these workers because, you know, we're all the working class. Unless you're in the top 1%, you are a worker and you rely on your employer to compensate you fairly for your labor, you know. And so they have just pledged to not cross the picket line and to not spend their money at Starbucks. Starbucks. And so what we're asking is that people uphold that. We have a site, no contractnocoffee.org you can go there, you can get up to date information on striking locations. You can sign our pledge to not cross the picket line and to not spend your money at Starbucks while workers are striking. And you can join us on the picket line. Workers are making a sacrifice. This is the holiday season. We are, you know, workers are sacrificing their time with their families, they're sacrificing wages, they're sacrificing potentially, you know, losing benefits over not going into, into work, being on strike to protest this company's failure to return with new proposals that solve these issues and failure to resolve these legal issues. And so say hello, Honk if you see them on strike. Join for a little bit, drop off donuts just there. There will always be more workers in this country than there will be CEOs. And we have to stand together. So this is, this is that moment and this isn't this is an easy win and I think the company ultimately will see that this can be settled. This can be settled so quickly. We could get back to the table tomorrow. We could solve the issues. We could improve workers lives, we could improve the experience for the customers and overall, it will improve the company as a whole.
- [70:25]
Krystal Ball
All right, Michelle, no contract, no coffee.org is the website. Couldn't agree with you more about the importance of working people being organized. The lack of that organization I think is one of the big things this country is suffering from right now. So thank you so much for your commitment and the work that you've done on this front.
- [70:42]
Michelle Eisen
Thank you.
- [70:44]
Sagar Enjeti
Thanks for watching, guys. We appreciate it. Friday show tomorrow. See you then.
- [70:50]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
Abc Wednesday, it's the CMA Awards live.
- [70:53]
Sagar Enjeti
That's what I'm talking about. Wow.
- [70:54]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
With performances by Lainey Wilson, Kelsey Ballerini, Zach Topp, Riley Green, Ella Langley, Kenny Chesney, Megan Maroney, Brandi Carlisle. And the hottest collabs, Miranda Lambert and Chris Stapleton, Jabuzzi and Steven Wilson Jr.
- [71:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Big X the plug featuring Luke Combs.
- [71:09]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
It's country music's biggest night hosted by.
- [71:13]
Krystal Ball
Your girl, lainey Wilson.
- [71:14]
NBC/CNBC Announcer
The CMA Awards live Wednesday, 8, 7 Central on ABC. And next day on Hulu.
- [71:19]
Sagar Enjeti
Ah. Greetings from my bath, festive friends. The holidays are all overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money. Getting 5% cash back when I pay in 4. No fees, no interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal. Save the offer in the app ends 1231. See paypal.com promoter points can be redeemed for cash and more. Paying for subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 make their.
- [71:49]
Krystal Ball
Holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. A gift that tells a story and shows you know theirs that doesn't just sparkle but speaks. From new festive charms to forever rings and personal engravings, this season give a gift that's perfectly theirs. Whether you're shopping for a shiny surprise for your significant other, matching bracelets to celebrate your friendship, or a heartfelt gift for a family member. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now@pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store.
- [72:20]
Michelle Eisen
This is an iHeart podcast.