← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
11/17/25: Fuentes Says MAGA Is Dead, CNN Stunned By Epstein Israel Connection, Israel Demands 20 Year US Deal, Schumer Career Over
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Sagar Enjeti
Binge. Listen this and all your artist stations, plus any song from our library of millions of songs, all ad free. Get your free 30 day trial of iHeartRadio All Access. You'll love it. Don't be basic, be extra. Start your free 30 day trial of iHeartRadio All Access now.
- [00:20]
Krystal Ball
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- [01:24]
Sagar Enjeti
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [01:26]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:33]
Sagar Enjeti
This is the only where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:39]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [01:50]
Sagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com.
- [01:58]
Krystal Ball
Epstein obviously dovetails to a much broader sort of breakdown going on within MAGA centered around Nick Fuentes, who is an overt racist and neo Nazi and he is another element and factor here that is splitting the Republicans apart at this moment. And he had some pretty interesting comments recently about how he believes that MAGA is dead and also pointing out some of the hypocrisy of the right and of other MAGA influencers where they want to Draw the line at him. But they are perfectly okay with hateful, racist rhetoric when it comes to other. Other groups, ethnicities, religions, et cetera. Let's take a listen to C2 after this year.
- [02:43]
Sagar Enjeti
2025 is the year that MAGA died. This is the year that this hat is no longer controversial. The hat is not edgy. The hat is not provocative. It doesn't even mean anything. This hat is dead. This hat is dead now, metaphorically speaking. And this is the future. And let's look at the ledger. On the side of maga, you have Lindsey Graham, Ben Shapiro, Marco Rubio, Randy Fine, Mark Levin. Apparently, all of that is MAGA. Together, they support war with Iran, Chinese students, H1B visas, 300,000 deportations all year. And then on the other side, apparently, what is not maga, what is kicked out of maga? Wacky crazy haters, Republican haters, Democrats, Third Worldists. You got Tucker Carlson, Marjorie Taylor Green, Thomas Massey, Andrew Tate, Nick Fuentes, Alex Jones. He got all these people on the other side in favor of America first, mass deportations, no foreign students, no foreign workers, no war with Iran, no war with Russia in Ukraine. What has become of the movement? It's been inverted and it is now dead this coming Monday. And I said, fuck Islam. I said, these Muslims need to go home. Fuck them. They're barbarians. They're Third World, as they like to live in open sewage and bomb crap. You think any conservative would disavow me? Any of them? Any Republican? You think? If I was known for saying that, do you think I would have any trouble getting into CPAC or the New York Young Republican Club gala or the gop? Of course not. Because Laura Loomer has access to the White House and she says stuff like that. Ben Shapiro has access to Trump and. And he says stuff like that.
- [04:47]
Krystal Ball
I mean, he's got a point, doesn't he's right. Listen, and listen. I want people to be totally clear, because Nick Fuentes is trying to whitewash his image right now and is being sanitized with the help of any number of podcast hosts, but Tucker Carlson being one of them. This is a man who says he loves it, thinks Hitler is cool and denies the Holocaust and is an avowed racist, hates Jews, but all sorts of other ethnic groups as well as. But he's completely correct there at the end when he says, you know what? If I said all the things that I say. If I said the things that Randy Fine says and Lori Loomer says about how Muslims are disgusting and they're savages, and they all need to be deported and it's a horror show. It would be no problem. So you are not gonna be able to draw the line, like, if all that hateful shit is fine for all these other groups, you're not gonna be able to draw the line when it comes to Jewish people. And he's 100% correct about that. You know, I also think, like, I'm curious to your view though, on his assertion that effectively MAGA is dead. I think that in a sense he's correct about that. And the fact that they have completely compromised any sort of moral credibility they could possibly have in order to gatekeep a character who's an avert, like neo Nazi, like Nick Fuentes. I mean, these people support a genocide. They are implementing a refugee policy that is whites only. They're doing mass racial profiling of Latinos, including Latino American citizens across the country. They're sending people to seekot. And you think you're gonna have any sort of moral standing to then be like, no, here's where we draw the line? It's ridiculous.
- [06:27]
Sagar Enjeti
I think that on the Israel issue is where it's the cleanest headshot. And this is also why this entire conversation about trying, it's like, oh, they must disavow. It's like, guys, nobody more embodies no enemies to the right more than the Zionist right. You can say literally anything about dual loyalty for Muslims, about wanting Palestinian children to starve in Gaza, about wanting and having joy, which, here's the thing, they say all this shit, they're like, I get joy when I see Palestinian children being killed in Gaza. One of the people who has been openly going after the Heritage foundation has been increasingly making fun of Palestinian women and children who are in tents in Gaza who are being flooded by more recent rains, which obviously is a mass spreader of disease. So you want the moral authority to tone police what is or isn't? I mean, it's like, again, you know, I can't possibly be lectured by the likes of Randy Fine who said he wants to nuke Gaza. It's like, dude, you are literally openly celebratory of deaths of women and children. And the same standard that you want applied to rhetoric against Jews is ones that you directly use against Muslims. Not even really just Muslims, because it's really just anybody who you disagree with, period. They most openly go after Muslims. So in what? And by the way, then also they talk about damage and about how hurtful and hateful rhetoric and all that is, who has the most power who has the most power? The people who have openly cheered on the deaths of women and of children, of funding, you know, much of what is going on there, of directing US Policy. So it's very obvious that, you know, if you look at actually has been the most harmed by hurtful rhetoric. It's you, like you're the biggest people for mass murder. And yeah, I mean, look on the MAGA being dead point, we have counted out Trump before, and that's why I don't. I mean, look back in after January 6th, you could have made a good case that people were gonna move on. Didn't work. Right? He won. Not only just won the nomination, he won the election by popular vote. Right. So I'm not ready to just sit here and discount their own political talent because they've pulled many, many rabbits out of a hat before. Now, whenever it does come to the Israel issue, and specifically with the current fight that is happening right now, this is something where you cannot both sides it. And I think that perhaps is where he is most correct in terms of it is Rubio, it is Laura Loomer, Mark Levin, the pro Israel crowd, which have most directly hitched their wagon to Donald Trump. And more directly, they're making it the direct litmus test for 2028. Now, the anti Israel right, or I guess the pro America right, is also doing the same thing. Part of the reason that that Tucker Fuentes interview is happened, I believe I have no inside information, is genuinely to force, you know, a choice for a lot of people who are in the American right wing to be like, okay, well, what do we find most offensive about what's happening here? And you know, like you said, look, I mean, God, you know, you know, Nick, he's a very, very smart guy in terms of calibrating a lot of his language. Now currently to be the most appealing to mass audience in the hopes that a lot of people may forget. However, for all the people who complain about him, as I have said here before, he literally was working on the Kanye west campaign. He was dead, irrelevant, and a joke. Back in 2023, October 7th, resurrected his entire image because he had something to criticize, to expose, and to fight against. And that's part of the reason that he is in the prominent position of where he is right now. And that's entirely a creation, I believe, of the Zionist right and of the way that they've handled themselves over the last two years. It's one where if they correctly see them as a threat, but they are the mirror image in a lot of ways rhetorically and to the effect also of destroying maga. Israel is destroying maga. Israel is destroying the Republican Party. It already destroyed the Democratic Party. It's destroying much of the Republican Party. Cause it's about generational lines and it's not just about the actions in Gaza. It's fundamentally a question of who do you work for and who do you care about the most. If you care about this foreign nation at the expense of ours, which you can directly say about Islam, but you're not capable of saying it about this, well, you're a hypocrite. And you're the people with all the power you directly, it appears, you know, this is the one issue in which you're willing to compromise all of your principles. That's what makes people go crazy. You know, I read that quote from. You may not have seen it. There's a long piece in the New York Times about Tucker Carlson. What he says there is, he was like, I was truly shocked to find out that many of the Republicans who I have been friends with and others do not care nearly as much about free speech as they allegedly pretended to over the last 10 years. I feel that way too. I mean I actually do feel more galled by a Ben Shapiro or by a myriad of other right wing figures the Trump administration, to not only run on a position of free speech to be against the woke left and to say that this is bad and anti American and then to come into office and directly use anti free speech measures to shut down dissent again over of a foreign country. That's why the Israel issue resonates, is because it's the one where people are willing to compromise everything that they've ever said before in order to act seemingly on behalf of this foreign power. And it's what gives the cleanest hit to a Nick Fuentes and anybody else. And so in my opinion they have nobody but themselves to blame. Why should we listen to you about tone policing? We can't, I can't deal with it.
- [12:12]
Krystal Ball
I mean as I think it would be ideal if you had two political parties that both were able to gatekeep actual neo Nazis. But when you have, you know, I mean listen, on the, on the Democratic side, why was Israel such a problem for Democratic leadership? It's because it exposed the hypocrisy of their, of the distance between their rhetoric about human rights, right, and these like humanity, liberal international humanitarian values and claiming to care about democracy and international law and all these things and then an active genocide. And it just, you know, the base looked at that, and it's like, this is disgusting. Like we actually do believe in these international human rights values. Like we actually believe people should have equal rights and we shouldn't support ethnostates and apartheid and genocide. And we cannot understand why you would be such incredible, disgusting, murderous hypocrites when it comes to this. You know, on the right to go a level deeper even, even than Israel, MAGA is increasingly centered around Christian nationalism. So it's okay for you to then say, okay, well the Muslims have to go and the Hindus are disgusting and they have to go. But no, no, no, we're gonna draw the line and we're going to protect. You can't say anything hateful about Jewish people. Nick Fuentes is the logical conclusion of the philosophy that they have centered within the MAGA movement, increasingly centered within the MAGA movement. So when he says MAGA is dead, I think he's absolutely right because he is like the logical end state of MAGA and the fact that he is critical of them from the right. And you have Trump, who is incredibly weak at this point, who just took this electoral shellacking, who is a lame duck, who is an old man, increasingly looking like an old man falling asleep in meetings, falling asleep while he's standing up at White House events, who's lost control of his own political party, can't even get them to vote his way on the Epstein files has to completely 180. Everyone is jockeying for what is going to come after Trump. And so through the fact of his political weakness and the exposing of the ideological fissures, flaws, hypocrisies and lies of this sort of core MAGA ideology. I think Fuentes is absolutely right. And you know, you can already see, and this is part of what's happening with Marjorie Taylor Greene, part of what's happening with Thomas Massie, part of what's happening with Ted Cruz. You can see everyone starting to jockey and JD Vance obviously starting to jockey for what is going to be next. This administration is already a failure. You know, there's nothing Trump could do at this point to like pull a rabbit out of the hat and totally remake the economy. The economy is going in a, is headed south and probably only going to get worse. None of his 50 year mortgage ideas are going to pull it out of the tailspin. They're betting massively on AI technology that's going to replace, you know, millions of workers in their ideal like the three whole thing is completely bankrupt and is increasingly exposed as so, so, you know, I listen, I'VE been wrong about Trump before. I thought he would lose to Kamala, you know, so people should take my words with a grain of salt. I've been wrong in the past, there's no doubt about it. But I have never seen this level of weakness in the coalition, this level of genuine sort of like foundational fishers. And I've never seen someone from within the movement be able to go up against Trump and get the better of him. And now we have effectively like multiple people who are able to do that and pull it off.
- [15:59]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, look, let's talk about maga.
- [16:01]
Martha Stewart
Right?
- [16:01]
Sagar Enjeti
Again, about what you were saying now. I mean, I think that's a convenient left explanation. Cuz one of the things that they dream about is that anybody who is opposed to immigration is racist. Right. I mean, that's literally kind of been the talking point now for over a decade about Trump. I personally did not believe that and I don't think that a lot of people, people believe that either who supported Trump in the 2024 election. People wanted less chaos. There are legitimate non racial arguments to make about immigration restriction. There are a lot also to make, let's say even about Israel, antisemitism, about nationalism itself. If we talk about the intellectual heirs of American nationalism back to the early days, let's say with the Progressive Party under Theodore Roosevelt, there was an explicit element specifically to free fight against know nothings and the other strain of racialism and anti Catholicism that was in the right and instead to make it about the nation centered in and of itself, to include the Irishman, the Scotsman, as long as people were able to forego, you know, their attachments to foreign nations and to buy into a national civic project like, you know, you're saying that's what maga's all about. I don't believe that. I actually don't believe that. That's really what a lot of the people who voted for Trump and believed, you know, America first itself as an ideology itself. Now I think Fuentes likes MAGA to be this because that's he wants. Right. And part of what Trump has always done is he's been kind of a Rorschach test, where you could see civic nationalism if you want, you could also see overt racialism if you want to. Some of the actions of the administration don't necessarily make the case that I'm making here. And that's where that becomes the logical endpoint where when you start to use free speech to go after people who are criticizing Israel, when you are overtly just really allowing ethnocentrism itself to be a primary argument for immigration instead of anything economic or to be to your own benefit. That is where it validates some of the MAGA that you're talking about. One that I've personally been trying to go fight against now for 10 years. But I'm not gonna sit here and say that I have been successful. I think that that movement itself about competence, about civic nationalism, which again I still believe validated in 2024 election, a lot of people were actually on board with that vision and they did win the popular vote. First time a Republican has done it since 2004. That is an extraordinary achievement. All of this is to be said here is that if they want to go down the rabbit hole of people who vote for Mamdani or socialist Muslims and that Mamdani itself, socialist Muslim, needs to be denaturalized, be deported, then don't be surprised when the other side of that coin is going to be exposed. When we got to start talking about dual loyalty and about foreign, you know, about being beholden to foreign ideologies or any of that. You cannot gatekeep in that the better option is to basically embrace everybody on the terms as Americans and to debate. But that's not what they've chosen to do. And that's also why, you know, that's why if you accept that framing which many current modern Republicans do, which is to make it about foreign entanglements when it comes to a Zoran Mamdani and not instead about the campaign issue and the campaign related stuff itself for why a lot of people voted for it, let's say on affordability, then you do go down the ethnic rabbit hole, which is to his direct benefit. That's what he wants more than anything. I mean, you know, it's ironic cause he's talking there about, if I said this about Muslims, it's like, dude, I'm pretty sure you have said all that about Muslims number one. But number two, you like, it's not.
- [19:42]
Krystal Ball
Like he's some lover of Arabs or Muslims. You know what, let me also say.
- [19:46]
Sagar Enjeti
I'm no great fan. I mean, I've made plenty of comments here and I think it's totally legitimate to talk about Islamic migration or any of that. I will talk that all day long. As long as, as long as what we're trying to strive for is American values and non racialized view of the world. Okay, that's very different. But what they celebrate openly is this discussion of, you know, about what they celebrate openly Is this framework explicitly around America must be a, you know, Christian white nation which a lot of the Islamic stuff kind of basically, you know, tacitly embraces. They just have a Jewish carve out for it. And he's like well no, I don't want that Jewish carve out too. So then you can't be surprised when this happens. Right. So in a lot of ways, you know, you have your own, you have only yourselves to blame. And this is really where Richard Henania, you know I have to give credit where due his abeliophile defense notwithstanding is like which he docs has recently taken up as a cause. What he says is about the groiperization of a lot of Republican politics is if you openly embrace denaturalized deport type rhetoric about anybody who opposes you, then it's not an accident that some Fuentes anti, literally anti Jewish is going to be openly embraced within that framework. Because that is the end point. And if that's the choice, well I think it's pretty bad and I'm out of it.
- [21:24]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean it, it reminds and I'm, I don't remember who said this. It might have been actually it might have been Hannity, I'm not sure. But it reminds in a sense of the rise of Trump where you know, people, Fox News or the George W. Bush Republican Party would, would flirt with rhetoric but he would come out and say it more directly. And so increasingly, especially in Trump 2.0 with Stephen Miller being such a central figure who is a blood and soil white nationalist like once the ethno state is, is, you know, quite upfront about that and that is his ideological project and it drives him day and night when you have him in charge and you have the DHS posting the way they are and the videos and the social media content that they put out and the way that they conduct themselves and the things that they say. And yes, Laura Loomer being a close advisor and describing herself as a proud Islamophobe who is just openly racist. You have embraced a racialist view of the world. That is your view. That is the policy you're implementing. That is a lot of the communications that are coming out. But you aren't going that next step of being quite as overt or frankly quite as consistent as Nick Fuentes is. Nick Fuentes says yes, I am an overt racialist. Yes, I want this country to be for white Christians. That's what we should have. And guess what? Jews are not white Christians. So they're out. So he is taking the more overt, consistent view of the ideological project that they set in motion. Now, I'm not. I think that my own view is that you're right. Soccer. I don't think that some, many of the people who voted for Trump, I don't think that they want an overtly like, neo Nazi, outright racist party. I think that there are many people who voted for Trump who are going to be repelled by that. But that is sort of the. That is what they have set in motion. That is the logical endpoint of the ideology that especially in Trump 2.0, they have put in place and heavily, heavily flirted with. So that's why I think, when I say I think he's right, that MAGA is dead, because Nick Fuentes and others. But Nick Fuentes is sort of forcing a choosing. He's forcing a divide. He's forcing a choosing. Are you going to be this overtly racialist, white nationalist, ethnostate, white blood and soil project? Are you going to do that? And are you going to be consistent about it, even when it comes to the Jews? And there aren't going to be any sacred ethnicities or religions or, you know, or sacred cows, everybody's on the table. Or are you going to be, you know, some sort of a. Some sort of a squish and believe everybody should have equal rights and that we should live together in this sort of like pluralistic democratic project that has been imperfectly practiced in the US for many years. He is forcing a choosing. And that's why I think, when that plus Trump's political weakness and being a lame dunk and all of that sort of stuff is why I think he fundamentally is correct about MAGA being broken apart and being dead and not meaning anything. And now people are going to have to pick sides of where they are. And picking the Ben Shapiro side of it's fine to hate everybody except the Jews, I don't think that that's gonna be a sustainable place to continue to stand.
- [24:57]
Sagar Enjeti
No, it's not a sustainable place. And that is ultimately what is fracturing all of this. You can't support a literal Jewish ethno state. And overtly to the point where you're willing to sacrifice all of your American principles and then say, no, we shouldn't have an ethno state here. You're like, come on. Okay. I mean, it's just so ridiculous. And this is part of what is broken down a lot. I mean, look, I find it really tragic. I think it's bad, and I think it's really Grim. Because what they don't understand is that their embrace of Israel has led to this embrace now of overt racialism. They also don't understand that for a lot of people, let's say, if you're younger, you're 22 and you're just getting into politics, you haven't, you know, Crystal, you and I have been aware of Fuentes and like the Gruiper phenomenon or whatever for eight years. Right. So we remember a lot of the past, but they don't. They actually have no idea. They don't, you know, they currently see, oh, this is very reasonable, of course. Oh, calling out Trump. Well, yep. If that's the tack that we believe in, we should fully take it, you know, in this direction. And so I fully understand how disgruntled and especially people who love degenerate activity and are seething, coping with a variety of vices of which everybody knows that I hate. And you embrace hateful politics, especially also in the age of large unemployment and inability to meet a spouse, you're fully addicted to pornography, phone. You're really in a place where it does not seem society wants to help you. I can always intellectually understand, as I have read many books of previous countries where this has happened, how this can go down that direction. I don't think that that is an embrace of that. I think we can just all simply understand that radical politics are a logical consequence of the current conditions that we live in. Part of the reason why I attack those conditions vehemently, part of the reason why we talk about AI and many of these other phenomena. But the problem too for the Republicans is they're not really trying to address many of those issues I just described as. Well, if anything, they're probably making it worse with a lot of the rise of AI. So in a multi kind of factorial way, I always look at who's in power, who is to blame. I think they're the ones to blame now. You know, people have agency. If you're gonna say overtly racist shit, be openly anti Semitic. Yeah, screw you. Okay. You know, nobody is absolving people who hold those views. But it's also not difficult to see how that it could be a logical endpoint for how you end up in this right now. And, you know, Charlie Kirk saw that coming with a lot of the Israel stuff that they were dealing with over at TP usa. It's a problem now for the entire not just Republican Party. That's just a problem for the nation broadly because, you know, like you were saying about Norms and gatekeeping. If you're willing to blow gatekeeping, institutions, rhetoric and all of that on behalf of a foreign government for Israel, then you, in my opinion again are the person then who opened up the so called gates to every crazy person in America because you have no moral authority anymore. You have to restore some sort of moral authority and civic understanding between people so that we can all re agree kind of on what guardrails and all of that were. That's part of the reason I hate the mainstream media, right, is because I'm like, listen, I know yeah, independent media is in some great bastion, but I thought that some of the norms and the things that they find offensive, whatever, are horrible and are bad. But what we're living through is kind of a reformation of that. And we're living with the logical consequence of what I think again, a lot of these establishment people propped up and they normalized, you know, ethnostate worship and sacrificing principles on behalf of foreign government. Well, where did you think it was going to go? And many people were warned about this too. Zed Jelani in particular has been at the forefront always about how openly embracing and supporting current Israeli government, Israeli policy, the destruction a lot of the domestic policy which is overtly on behalf of Israel, not only increasing anti Semitism, undermining American values and how ultimately the idea that we should all just be treated equally is kind of directly undermined by a lot of the pro Israel project. And that's so when people take that seriously, that type of rhetoric, they will embrace the American kind of end of that. And that's scary for everyone, Jews included, but not just them.
- [29:23]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, indeed. And I mean, I want to be clear, I don't think that Fuentes style Neo Nazism is going to succeed as a political project. I don't think it's a majority coalition, but I do think it is succeeding at destroying maga. And I think that it, and look, put it on full display, let people see what the views are, the hate and the ugliness that is embraced by people with an avowedly central racialist worldview. And I think most Americans, I have enough faith in this country that I think most Americans will be repelled and disgusted by a group of people who are, you know, follows a guy who says that he thinks Hitler's great and the Holocaust was, was faked or exaggerated and that he's worried about quote unquote, organized Jewry and you know, all the horrific things that he says about every minority group. I think that will be rejected by Americans. But but he certainly has caused. Like I said, he's caused a choosing within the Republican Party. And it's probably a good, good segue here to our conversation about Israel and what's going on there.
- [30:40]
Oprah Winfrey
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- [31:38]
Sagar Enjeti
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- [31:53]
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- [32:54]
Krystal Ball
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- [33:12]
Sagar Enjeti
LLC Turning now to the question of Israel in the American right and also as I mentioned previously about not just the right but also the mainstre. There was an incredible, incredible exchange between Marjorie Taylor Greene and Dana Bash over at cnn. Dana Bash has been pretty vehemently pro Israel from the beginning of the October 7th attack and has consistently defended the government and made accusations around anti Semitism on cnn. But here in particular, Marjorie Taylor Greene raises drop site news and Ryan Grimm's reporting around Epstein and Israel connection. And Dana Bash seems aghast, unaware. And this is one of the most exposing clips I've ever seen yet on the issue. Let's take a listen. You questioned who and what country is.
- [33:57]
Krystal Ball
Putting so much pressure on Trump to keep the Epstein files hidden and you included a picture about donations from pro.
- [34:05]
Sagar Enjeti
Israel lobbying group aipac.
- [34:07]
Krystal Ball
What are you trying to say there? Well, I think it's the question that many Americans are asking, especially when we saw information recently come out in these emails that the oversight committee that I serve on has released. And we saw Jeffrey Epstein with ties to Ehud Barak. We saw him making business deals with them also business deals that involved the Israeli government and seems to have led into their intel agencies. And I think the right question is to ask is, was Jeffrey Epstein working for Israel? And I'm proud to say I don't take money from aipac. I don't take money from any special group of people. I'm just representing my district and the American people. And so that's what I was referring to.
- [34:59]
Sagar Enjeti
I just want to be clear. Are you saying Israel is pushing the President of the United States to cover up the Epstein files? And what evidence do you have that that is.
- [35:09]
Krystal Ball
No, I simply. No, I simply asked. No, I simply just asked out loud, is there a foreign government? It could be any foreign government, but is a foreign government pushing to keep this covered up because people just don't understand the big fight against.
- [35:27]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, you had AIPAC up there. It was pretty clear which government you were talking about.
- [35:35]
Krystal Ball
I'm questioning that government in particular and questioning any other foreign government.
- [35:41]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, it's pretty clear which government. Yeah. What's wrong with talking about that government? The evidence is straight up. It's right there. I mean, what's the problem with it? It's just so ridiculous and it's just crazy. I really believe that the Israel Epstein connection is one of the reasons why not just Trump, but a Lot of the conservative media was so reluctant to actually go full on in the release of the Epstein files. I've always found it a little bit ironic. I've been at the story, you know, the Mossad theory and all that. With Epstein. It was a theory. Now it's basically confirmed in terms of his acting as an agent, often on behalf of Israel. Not just for Israel, many other foreign governments, but there was originally like this belief, oh, it'll just be the Democrats that are going to be implicated. Well, one of the reasons why it appears he got the sweetheart deal and more at least again my personal theory is because of his power broken connections all across the world. Israel, Russia, Saudi Arabia, all of these different governments. Mongolia, the Cote d'. Ivoire. That's what Ryan and the full picture have revealed of the backstory behind Epstein. Money laundering, pedophilia and all of that was the pedophilia was like a thing that he did at times with the global elite. But the money laundering and his connections, his ability to be a power broker perhaps at times intertwining the two, although there's not a ton of evidence to support that at the very least was why he was protected at some level by some of the most richest and powerful people. So the very fact that that cnn, Dana Bash are acting like this is new information that they'd never even heard about before, it just shows you still the information bubble that a lot of the mainstream media and all of them are swimming in. And it's just such a disgrace that Ryan and Dropshott are the only people who are willing to report those emails that shows like ours are the only people even willing to talk about it. And you know, a lot of the public is just living in, they have no idea if they're not reading or paying attention. The New York Times will talk all day long about Epstein and Trump, which is fine, I don't care, publish it, you know, sure, it's definitely a story. Epstein Israel is also a big story. Where are you guys? Nothing.
- [37:45]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, Ryan Grimm and Murtaza Hussein on every single byline with regard to the connections between Epstein and various Israeli figures, spies, former Prime Minister, dealings with foreign governments on behalf of Israel. Like they are literally the only ones who are doing this reporting. And then not only are the only they the only ones that do the reporting, then the mainstream press just pretends that this reporting doesn't even exist. I mean I actually believe that Dana Bash doesn't even know that it exists. And so she's conducting this interview like these questions to Marjorie Taylor Greene are some kind of a gotcha. Like, are you insinuating that there's some Israel connection here? And she's like, yes, I am, because that's been reported out. So if you aren't aware of that piece, then, you know, Epstein is just effectively about morality, which is important. Like I think the, you know, people want to know about the sleazy behavior of politicians and global elites and the way they're all interconnected and cover for themselves. And that has a lot to do with power. And so I don't think that, that you can just dismiss that on its own. But if you're not tying that in with Israel specifically, but more broadly, any other federal foreign governments, as Marjorie Taylor Greene represents there as well, if you're not tying those pieces together, then you're not really connecting it to the present day and the risk and the danger from this president right now and why this should be a central story and why it is really important and has immediate bearing on the conduct of our own foreign policy. So it's just wild to see her living in this completely different universe where any sort of Israel Epstein connection is purely like fever swamp, conspiracy, anti Semitic garbage. That's how she sees it. And that's I think, how most of the mainstream press sees it as well. Either that or they're just like, you know, themselves covering up for Israel, which is certainly possible in many cases, but a lot of it is just they sort of see that as icky conspiracy that they're not gonna dirty their hands with. And so she sees it as some like gotcha question to Marjorie Taylor Greene rather than a legitimate line of inquiry. And probably maybe the most legitimate line of inquiry and concern with regard to releasing the Epstein files today.
- [40:07]
Sagar Enjeti
I think this is a problem. I also, I want to normalize cuz a lot of Democrats are very new to Epstein, right? They never paid attention. Now that Trump is involved, they're frothing and they're like, this is great. And I've noticed this with like Ezra Klein and all of them. They see the political utility, but to them it's still icky because Republicans have been talking about it, let's say for five years. And they kind of think, like you said, it's conspiracy dream guys, the Israel thing, it's real. Okay, let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. It's not just they're so new to the story that they think anybody who's talked about that in the past, conspiracy brain, they don't know where they're talking. No, no, no, no. We have the evidence now. Look at what Ryan and Murtaza have reported. If I had that six months ago on Tucker Carlson and all that, I would have blown it out. And I was trying to be careful at the time about. Well in terms of theories and speculation it's over security agreements with the presidents of Mongolia. It's done. Military technology. Ayud Barak, you combine that with everything that we already had in terms of a lot of the evidence. There's not even a discussion at this point in terms of acting on behalf of Israel. We need to get this into the bloodstream of the, you know, the Midas touch folks and others. Cuz right now everything is just focused on Trump. The point as you just said is the connective tissue from yes, just Trump also being mentioned but the Israel part and its potential relation to foreign policy and also of the double standard that we use in terms of counterintelligence and more on the issue and potentially why Epstein was able to get away in the sweetheart deal with this non prosecution agreement. That's how you connect the two sides of the coin. And unfortunately CNNs of the world and others still want to brand that as anti Semitic. No, it's just a fact. It's literally just a simple fact. I also did I would be remiss if I didn't show the more recent developments in conservative media. Let's put this up here on the screen. The American Conservative published this. I love it. From Daniel Boguslaw who's great new FARA filings which are the Foreign Agent Registration act filing show plans to promote pro Israel messaging at the conservative Salem Media Network. So you know, people at Salem Media include they say 82 radio stations across the US major websites, manages high profile websites, town hall, red state, influential platforms, conserving discourse. Some of the programs that are featured include the Charlie Kirk show, the Nadesh d' Souza show, the Josh Hammer show, the Right View with Lara Trump. Well now according to the company data, the Network generates some 80 million monthly page views, 37 monthly ads. So it's obviously it's influential. And so these new FARA documents show that Salem Media may have already begun integrating paid for Israeli government narratives across its extensive network of platforms. This is according to this report from the American Conservative. Salem did not respond by the way, to the American Conservatives request for comment. The Israeli government retained Salem Media's chief strategy officer Brad Parscale, who is the former campaign manager for Donald Trump to advocate for Israeli interest through a $6 million financial arrangement so this is all directly acknowledged in Fara, but it also, by the way, Dinesh d' Souza very recently has been attacking Tucker Carlson. Perhaps it's legitimate, but it does, you know, genuinely raise a question when you see vast amounts of money like this being thrown around to Brad Parscale, who's working for Salem, and its potential influence on the conservative landscape and discourse. So that's part of the reason why all of this is so important.
- [43:32]
Krystal Ball
Isn't Parscale also doing some trying to train AI chatbots to be more pro Israel?
- [43:39]
Sagar Enjeti
I did see a story behind that.
- [43:41]
Krystal Ball
I think he's involved with that as well.
- [43:42]
Sagar Enjeti
I did see a story behind that. I definitely would like to. I would like to explore it more. I hadn't seen it fully confirmed, but this one, I was like, ooh, they have them dead to rights. So, yeah, if you see people from there, I mean, look, it's a legitimate question. That's part of the reason our business is set up the way that it is. Primary funded. Nobody can be coming around here saying, oh, you're getting paid by X amount interest or whatever. And if your views just happen to align with the advertisers, maybe that's just the way it is. Like, I don't think Josh Hammer is pro Israel because he's being paid by Pro Israel. You know, you could say a lot about the guy, but I don't think that's why I think he genuinely believes it. With Dinesh, though, I really don't know personally and with a lot of the others there, but at the very least, it just goes to show you, buying influence because they recognize or trying to buy influence with Brad Parscale and potentially with ads and all this other stuff, specifically because they think that they're losing the information war. And it's because they have a reality problem.
- [44:37]
Oprah Winfrey
Some moments in your life stay with you forever. In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on ebay years later. There are certain books that don't just give you information. They shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me. Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back. Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one. So I started searching, and that's when I found it on ebay. That's what I love about ebay. It's not just a marketplace. It's a place where stories live Shop ebay for millions of finds, each with a story. Ebay things people love. Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [45:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Binge Listen this and all your artist stations plus any song from our library of millions of songs all ad free. Get your free 30 day trial of iHeartRadio All Access. You'll love it. Don't be basic, be extra. Start your free 30 day trial of iHeartRadio All Access now.
- [45:50]
Martha Stewart
This is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. Hello darlings. I have a little seasonal secret to share. It's the new Kahlua Duncan Caramel Swirl, Kahlua, the beloved coffee liqueur and Dunkin, the beloved coffee destination paired up to create a treat that is perfect for the holidays. Imagine rich velvety caramel swirling through bold coffee flavor kissed with that signature Kahlua warmth. It's like wrapping yourself in a cashmere blanket, but for your taste buds, whether you're hosting a holiday brunch, trimming the tree, or just escaping your relatives for a moment of peace, this is your go to indulgence and what your cocktail cart has been missing. Kahlua and Duncan, a pairing so perfect is like me in a well organized pantry. So go ahead, treat yourself. After all, the holidays are about joy, celebration and the little caramel swirl never hurt anyone. Cheers.
- [46:51]
Krystal Ball
My dears must be 21 or older to purchase. Drink responsibly. Kahlua caramel swirl cream liqueur 16 alcohol by volume 32 proof Copyright 2025 imported by the Kahlua Company New York, NY Duncan Trademarks owned by DDIP Holder LLC used under license Copyright 2025 DDIP Holder LLC let's talk more about that reality problem because we don't want to lose sight of what is happening in Gaza right now. Put D3 up on the screen. Truly horrific. Mass rainfall and flooding when you have people who are largely still living in tents with very limited supplies, very limited to no sanitation, soaking wet, freezing, any ownings and belongings that they still have completely destroyed. You know, and this is after years of horror. So you can only imagine how broken down they are and how dispiriting it is now to also have these horrific floods that are just, I mean it's complete and total, complete and total nightmare as as winter looms and at the same time, let's put this up on the screen. This is pretty incredible. Israel now is seeking a new 20 year security agreement with the US doubling the usual turn term and adding what they describe as America first modifications to win the Trump administration support. Israeli and US Officials told me now in the story, if you read it, the two things that they mention as America first provisions are, number one, like the doubling of the length of the agreement and the fact that they want more money than they're already getting, which is insane. And number two, some sort of a, like, you know, military tech collaboration which would further sort of entrench their interest and intertwine us with them, etc. But to me, Sagar, I mean, this is another very interesting fight. On the right, the fact that they are pushing for this 20 year understanding really indicates that they see the writing on the wall. They've already lost the Democratic base. It's gone, it's over. I think it will be a central litmus test in the 2028 primary. There's no doubt in my mind about that. But on the right, they also see these divisions and the writing on the wall with the, you know, the direction of the Republicans as well. So they're trying to lock in their position as much as they can because they don't have confidence that they'll be able to achieve anything approaching the same level of support in the future.
- [49:25]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I think it is. I mean, the 20 year memorandum is fascinating for a variety of reasons. Now, first and foremost, the reason that they want to lock it in for 20 years is because they can see that if they don't right now that a future administration may not do so. But second, let's actually read a lot of the agreement because what they want is they want continued aid to Israel, but the way that they're trying to sell it is the way that the Ukrainians did. So you'll remember for the pro Ukraine caucus, what they kept saying was, guys, we're not giving money to Ukraine, we're giving money to Ukraine so they can buy more weapons from us. So it's actually good for your economy. Now, obvious, basically money laundering, isn't it? It's like funneling money to a foreign government so that they can buy money from your weapons industry. It's like, well, we could just buy our own weapons if we wanted to and then we could decide when and where it goes and for what purpose. Seems reasonable if you ask me. But some of the changes that they say not only would change it from 20 years and make it to the 100th anniversary of their independence, but what they want to do is use some of the money for joint US Israeli research and development rather than direct military aid. And that would be defense tech Defense AI Golden Dome missile as the Israeli said. The fundamental thing though that we come back to is they still need the aid is for years there's been this debate, does Israel even need aid? You know, at this point, I mean it's a country with free healthcare, they have a fine economy According to them, Mr. High Tech, Silicon Valley nation, all of that. It's like, okay, fine, so if you can afford all of that and you can afford to literally pay a huge portion of your population to not work and to worship and to read the Torah, then why am I giving you billions and billions of dollars in order to subsidize that? It seems kind of sick, right? Well, this 20 year agreement is still a tacit admission. They need the weapons and they fundamentally don't have the capacity to defend themselves if they wanted to. Because a huge portion of their talking point is we stand, you know, we will always stand alone and if and when we need to. No, it's obvious, especially during the Iran crisis we saw that, look, you know, in terms of their missile defense, the Iranians were able to penetrate it. They bombed a lot of high value targets in the middle of Tel Aviv and across Israel, despite all of their great technology, which we are basically the ones running, selling. And in the April attack back in 2024, I believe it was the United States ended up shooting down the vast majority of the missiles that were incoming to Israel. They can't actually defend themselves to the degree that they would need to if they ever got into a full blown war. So the fact is they need the US security umbrella and all this talk of being this strong independent nation is bunk and it's ridiculous. Part of the reason, I've also always said too that, and this is, look, I'm a realist. Part of the reason too is also the benefit is because it creates more moral outcomes is would Israel have behaved in the way that it has over the last two years if it fully had to stand on its own two feet? No, they would do what normal nations have to do is they would have to assess the variety of threat actors or whatever in the region. They'd have to calibrate their response to October 7th to make sure that they could actually be sustainable to negotiate peace. The only reason they can act as belligerent as they do is because they have the backing of the full backing of the United States. That's what enables such all of not only just the atrocity, but they're basically like they're gangsterism in the region. That ultimately is what creates destabilization and so their admission that they can only survive really with a 20 year agreement from the US undermines their entire. How sovereign they are. No, they're a colony basically of the United States, like many other of our so called allies across the region too, by the way.
- [53:09]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, no, if they didn't have our backing, they couldn't act with this level of impunity. They'd have to maybe actually try to figure out how to get along with their neighbors rather than just constantly, relentlessly bombing them and murdering people. Let's put D7 up on the screen. It's an indication of how their propaganda efforts are going here in the US You've got Shy Devadai, who was the infamous Columbia professor. I'm not going to get into all the lore right now, but guys, if you aren't familiar with this character, you can go and look him up in the way that he's conducted himself. In any case, Ms. Rachel said wanting kids to live is not anti Semitic. Like I'd say that's, that's fair. And he says in reply, yes, but advocating only for non Jewish kids to live is. This is such a lie. And a. I mean, it's just so incredibly dishonest to portray Ms. Rachel as only caring about non Jewish kids, only caring about Palestinian kids. I mean, this is just not true. You can go look at the things that she said after October 7. You can go look at what she says all the time. She loves kids, period. She upholds the humanity of kids, period, no matter their racial or ethnic background. Unlike this dude, by the way. And so it's just unbelievable to me the way that Ms. Rachel has become this like central figure and just exposes the horror and the immoral nature of this, of this Jewish supremacist ideology that undergirds Zionism.
- [54:43]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. I mean, for Ms. Rachel, she's like, I am. So from the beginning, here's what did Ms. Rachel do? She was like, what happened on October 7th was so horrible. And what's happening in Gaza is so horrible. And by saying that latter part, they're like, you're an anti Semite. From that point forward, literally all she has done, and I've watched all of her videos on Gaza is she's like, look, I don't think that children should starve. I don't think they should be intentionally targeted. And she's been using a lot of her platform in order to try and raise money for children who have been wounded, let's say in Gaza, including videos doing them. Let's Say, you know, with, like, children who have lost limbs. What exactly is anti Semitic or wrong about that? In fact, from the very beginning, she's made it an explicit point to make sure that she does talk also about victims on October 7th and to specifically highlight the cause of. Of children themselves. There is nothing antisemitic about that whatsoever. So the fact that she gets attacked for talking about Palestinian children, if that alone is antisemitism, well, then, yeah, I mean, this to our whole Fuentes discussion, that's how you get here. If you're gonna say that everything, any criticism, even elevation in this case of Palestinian children is itself anti Semitic, and talking about their fate is explicitly undermining and not advocating for Jewish children to live. A lot of people are just gonna say, screw you. I can't even listen to you anymore. And, you know, by the way, a lot of the criticism, what they forgot about Ms. Rachel is for her. This is an issue that she deeply cares about. I've listened to interviews with Ms. Rachel before. She sees her vein very much in the way of Mr. Rogers. It doesn't take a genius to see that this lady's made plenty of money. Okay? So it's not like she can be attacked or bankrupted or any of that. She's probably, what, the most watched show in the history of Netflix? Something like that. Billions of views on YouTube. She doesn't need your endorsements or any of that in order to live now at this point. So for her, it's a cause that she just deeply cares about. And all she's done is triple down on her platform to try and raise awareness about the cause. And look, she still has not only a parental grassroots following, podcasts, and all them are, like, jumping over themselves to trying to book Ms. Rachel. And it's not about the Palestinian issue even then. It's about respect, I think, for her advocacy for children. And even mainstream figures look far past that, and they think that these attacks are ridiculous. So I agree. I think it's one of the most exposing thing that's happened in the discourse. It's like, really, they're going after Ms. Rachel for saying children shouldn't have their limbs blown off or starved? Is that the extent of where we are at Nat Row? And yes, apparently that's the answer.
- [57:18]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. And just before anyone chimes in, like, okay, but why does she only care about Gaza and Palestinians? Why doesn't she say something about Sudan? Not only she said something about Sudan, she literally also raised money. I know, for children in Sudan. So, you know, for all those people out there who only give a shit about Sudan, by the way, when it's to say, like, why don't you care about Sudan? Guess what? She also raised money for them and cares about those children as well.
- [57:46]
Oprah Winfrey
Some moments in your life stay with you forever. In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on ebay years later. There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me. Years later I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back. Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one. So I started searching and that's when I found it on ebay. That's what I love about ebay. It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live. Shop ebay for millions of finds, each with a story. EBay Things People Love Listen to On Purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, binge.
- [58:43]
Sagar Enjeti
Listen this and all your artist stations, plus any song from our library of millions of songs. All ad free. Get your free 30 day trial of iHeartRadio All Access. You'll love it. Don't be basic, be extra. Start your free 30 day trial of iHeartRadio All Access now.
- [58:59]
Martha Stewart
This is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. Hello darlings. I have a little seasonal secret to share. It's the new Kahlua Dunkin Caramel Swirl, Kahlua, the beloved coffee liqueur and Dunkin, the beloved coffee destination paired up to create a treat that is perfect for the holidays. Imagine rich, velvety caramel swirling through bold coffee flavor kissed with that signature Kahlua warmth. It's like wrapping yourself in a cashmere blanket. But for your taste buds, whether you're hosting a holiday brunch, trimming the tree, or just escaping your relatives for a moment of peace, this is your go to indulgence and what your cocktail cart has been missing. Kahlua and Duncan. A pairing so perfect is like me in a well organized pantry. So go ahead, treat yourself. After all, the holidays are about joy, celebrations and the little caramel swirl never hurt anyone.
- [59:59]
Krystal Ball
Cheers my dears must be 21 or older to purchase. Drink responsibly. Kahlua Caramel Swirl Cream Liqueur 16 alcohol by volume 32 proof Copyright 2025 imported by the Kahlua Company New York, NY Dunkin Trademarks owned by DDIP Holder, LLC used under license Copyright 2025 DDIP Holder, LLC. All right, should we get a little bit into the Democrats here before we wrap the show? We've got some interesting Gavin Newsom comments. Let's put this up on the screen. Speaking of maybe a time of choosing within, within parties, Newsom said this about, about Zoran Mamdani. He said, I think Mamdani is very good for the Democratic Party. I want a broad tent. I want a big tent. I want the party of mansion to Mamdani. I want to be more inclusive. We have to grow the pie. It's not about scarcity. It's an abundance mindset. And I mean, I think here's my view of Gavin. I think Gavin is having a very, a big moment with the Democratic base right now. I think right now you'd have to say he's basically like the 2028 frontrunner. And the reason he's gotten such purchase with the Democratic base is because he has positioned himself as this like anti Trump fighter. You know, he did the Prop 50 thing. He's on Twitter doing this whole like Trump posting type of thing. He hasn't been afraid to pick a fight with the sitting President of the United States. But statements like this should give you pause about whether or not this guy is really gonna be the guy. Because you are going to have. Within the Democratic base, there has been a level of radicalization where they find like the mansions of the world that just constantly capitulate. And by the way, Manchin is not like a populist. Manchin is a corporate guy. They find that disgusting. And so I don't think that the Gavin Newsoms of the world who are trying to be all things to all people and not pick a side in whether or not you're gonna continue to be a donor party or whether you're going to confront capital. That position of trying to be all things to all people is not going to be sustainable going forward. And we all know which side Gavin Newsom is actually on and which side he is ultimately gonna pick 100%.
- [62:10]
Sagar Enjeti
It's actually kind of fascinating to see the way that he is grappling like the Mamdani to Manchin thing. I think Gavin, his calibration right now is really losing people because he did best when he was standing against Trump, right? And he actually, let's give him political credit, he came out against the shutdown deal. He said it was caving, he said it was bad. But he is trying to retain his ability To. To tap a lot of the donor base and to still live in a world where you get to raise money from all of the rich people, many of whom are also pro Israel, and then also live in the world of political success. For a Zoran Mamdanya for more populist style candidates, I don't think that that circle can be squared. We talked about the whole Fuentes thing earlier. I just don't think you can live with that anymore. Unless the billionaires are literally just gonna stop advocating for the stuff that they do, which you and I know they'll never do, and they'll just accept. They'll be like, we hate Trump enough. They're willing to just back you up and you can say whatever you want. That is actually theoretically possible. I wouldn't entirely put that off the table, but I don't think that that's going to happen. So then, dude, you're gonna have to make a choice at a certain point. And that AIPAC answer, that was the first time I actually doubted him. I was like, oh, my God, wow. Like, wow. Because what I respect is his talent. He's a Cal. He is. You know, calibration is bad, in my opinion, because you don't believe anything. But if I respect talent and the ability to follow that talent. But in that moment, I was like, man, your inability to be authentic or even to give a normal answer on that was just a huge sell. And this is another example of, you know, it's constantly calibration. Keep the donors happy, try to keep the voters happy. Due to a certain point, you're just gonna have to choose. And by the way, I mean, I'm curious what you think. I feel like the billionaires, they'll come home if Gavin's ultimately the nominee, and he just says, okay, screw you right now for the primary, they would come home because a lot of them will be against Trump and they'll ultimately have faith that he'll be better on policy than, let's say, a more populist left style Dem. So it's also just bad politics, in my opinion.
- [64:23]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, no, I mean, that is a good point. If he postured like he was going to raise their taxes or do whatever other thing that they're totally terrified and disgusted by. But the thing for him is his whole rise to power, the whole reason that he's governor of California, I mean, listen, he has political talent. You know, personally, he gives me the ick. And he's like used car salesman vibes all over him. Like, Gracie Gavin, that's That's my sense of him. But, you know, he is a talented figure in a lot of ways, especially he can mix it up with people. He did great in that Ron DeSantis debate, whatever. But. But yeah, I mean, if he postured like he was going to be different in order to win the Democratic primary, I think you're right that they would still rather have him than a more, you know, someone who had a more consistent track record of confronting capital. There's no doubt about it. But his whole rise to power has been, I'm going to corner the market on the Silicon Valley donors. I'm going to corner the market on the, you know, the Hollywood donors. I'm going to corner the market. I'm sure he has plenty of, you know, New York City, Wall street type donors as well. That's really truly his base. And so I, I don't think that he is really fundamentally capable of going against them. And you saw that. That's why that AIPAC moment was very important, because it wasn't something you can spin. There's just, there's either a yeah, it's a yes or a no. Right. And increasingly a Democratic base is, you know, they see through these attempts to. Well, let me change the subject. Well, let me dodge. Well, let me deflect. There are some yes or no questions where you have to choose a side. And when it comes down to it, Gavin Newsom is going to choose the side of Capitol because that is what he has always been throughout his career, even as I think the base really appreciates the fight that he is sort of demonstrating against Trump right now. So another pretty wild moment in New Hampshire. So Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen was heckled, actually, by the guy who is in a primary against her daughter for an open House seat. And Jeanne Shaheen, of course, was the lead Democrat in terms of negotiating the shutdown cave. This was at like, a Democratic Party function. So it's a lot of like, you know, of her fans and just sort of like Democratic Party, the type of people that actually go to the committee meetings and serve on the boards and those sorts of folks who were in the room. But let's take a listen to that. So let me be clear. Nobody wants to extend the Affordable Care act tax credits more than me or more than Senator Hassen.
- [66:59]
Sagar Enjeti
Why did you vote for it?
- [67:00]
Krystal Ball
You look at our record and you tell me what you've done to protect the health care of Americans. And it's not even close to what we've done. So Sagar, she's like, very nasty and aggressive against this guy. And it's going to be interesting to see. So, as I mentioned, her daughter is running for Congress, and her daughter actually came out against the shutdown deal. So she's on the opposite side of her mom. But at this point, in the state with the Democratic base, even though in that room Jeanne Shaheen gets some support, the overall sense is, like, disgust over the shutdown cave. And so I wonder if the daughter, like, you know, catches some. Some damage here just from being in the same family. And then let's put this up on the screen of this. The guy who was doing the heckling, who is in this primary with Jean Shaheen's daughter. And he talks about his own medical issues and how fundamental that has been to his own politics in explaining why he decided to stand up and have this moment. So he says, Senator Shaheen, I suffered a severe spinal injury at age 15. My spinal cord had to be rebundled. I had eight rods and four screws put in my back. Four years later, one of the rods in my back snapped, and I had to have another major surgery. I developed arachnoiditis. I'm gonna go with a chronic pain condition that I live with for the rest of my life due to surgery complications. The first photo shows my spine. The second represents yours, and it's a box of wet noodles. I will never back down when it comes to health care. So the shutdown has injected another sort of litmus test issue within the Democratic primary and within Democratic primaries. And what I've seen, Sagar, too, is it's not enough to have opposed the shutdown cave, basically everyone who is running for office as they oppose it, including Jeanne Shaheen's own daughter. But the next level is saying that Chuck Schumer needs to go. And that's the one that a lot of candidates, including Peggy Flanagan in the Minnesota primary that we interviewed, including I interviewed Antonio Delgado, who's Lieutenant Governor of New York, challenging Kathy Hochul, aoc Can't come out and outright say it. That seems to be the one that is more difficult for some of these candidates to fully articulate and get on board with.
- [69:17]
Sagar Enjeti
Totally. And, you know, this also gets the Chuck Schumer element that you set up. Let's go to that next one and put it on the screen. E4. Just about how the shutdown has left people questioning his future more than ever. Like, you have a record number of Democrats who are speaking out specifically against Schumer's leadership in the House. You had Ro Khanna saying that he needs to resign. You had multiple others in the Senate grumbling about his handling of it. You have a historically unpopular Democratic leader here for his handling of the shutdown. He has to run again if he wants to in 2028. He has to run again for reelection if he wants to. The Democrats then would have to back him. You have candidates explicitly like Platner and others saying, I won't vote for the guy. So this demonstrates where so much of the grassroots energy is on the Democratic Party and this tying it back to Gavin. The fact that Gavin hasn't called for Schumer's head and still kind of maintains friendly relationship with Democratic leaders, that's just such a liability in this anti institutional moment. Like, you have to just be willing to come out and be like, no, he's done. He betrayed us. He's gotta go. Like, there's just only political upside to that. But because of political connections, he can't do it.
- [70:32]
Krystal Ball
With Gavin. I, you know, I don't expect anything different with some of these candidates who are positioning themselves as the progressive insurgent in the race. I'm like, I don't get it. What is the hang up here? Like, he doesn't like you. He's supporting your opponent. Why can't you just say, yes, we need new leadership. This guy has got to go. But that article is interesting because it says effectively, like, everyone knows this is Schumer's last term except for him. Like, he may be the last guy to not realize that his political career is over. Because, I mean, AOC is the most obvious potential primary challenger. I think she'd wipe the floor with him. But they mention any number of other. Pat Ryan is one other potential possibility. Letitia James. There are a lot of other New York politicians who I think would handily defeat him at this point in a primary. So, you know, I think he'll probably remain on as leader because I don't see any of the Senate Democratic Caucus that are standing up to say, okay, we've got to do something different is perplexing to me because you'd be such a hero. Like if you're Chris Van Hollen or whoever who's sniffing around a presidential run, you'd be such a hero to take that position. But I don't see any of them doing it. So I think he'll remain as leader. But, you know, come 2028, I think, I think he's going to be out. But, you know, yeah, on the Gavin point, you're absolutely correct. It's one more issue where if he gets asked the direct question, people are not going to like. They're not going to like his answer. They don't want this Weasley crap. They want these old failed leaders gone. They want a completely new direction. And it's really going to advantage those who are outsiders to the system. Like, you know, this guy who challenged Senator Shaheen who has, you know, he doesn't give a shit what Chuck Schumer of him or the grand platinum of the world or whatever, they're like, yeah, fuck that guy. It's easy for me to be able to say it. So it's another thing that's really gonna advantage outsiders in these upcoming Democratic primaries.
- [72:19]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, 100%. And just look, to back up on the polling, we can end it here. E5 up on the screen. Just look at this. Most Democrats think congressional Republicans compromise too much. 55%. Only 32% say right amount. Only 13% say not enough. So, I mean, look, it's overwhelming in terms of, of the majority. And then put the next one up there on the screen. Schumer apparently called the Democratic hopefuls, Andy Bashir, Josh Shapiro and J.B. pritzker and told them not to criticize a deal that opened, reopened the government. First of all, that's a sell on all three of them. If all three of them actually didn't do that, I'd have to go back and check their potential statements. But yeah, for all this talk about how secretly he was fighting against the deal, it's like, well, then why are you doing that, man? Why are you calling all of these hopefuls and telling them not to vote and tell them not to criticize the deal?
- [73:09]
Krystal Ball
Exactly, exactly. And once again, like in the Epstein block, gotta give Ro Khanna his due. Yeah, you do, because he was the first down of the gates to say, that's it. Schumer's gotta go. And then you had a number of other Democratic reps who followed behind him. But he seems to have, you know, much more of his finger on the pulse of where the Democratic bases than many other would be 20, 28 aspirants. And I include AOC in that as well, because she was very. When she got about Schumer, she did this whole, well, they all kind of suck. So what? I like sounding like Bernie's line on this thing as well. And, you know, he's. He's been the one who figured out Epstein was the place to push Trump and maga, and then is been much more in touch with the Democratic base in terms of their discuss with leadership. Yep.
- [73:54]
Sagar Enjeti
Exactly right. Okay, guys, thank you so much for watching. We appreciate it. We'll have a great show for everybody tomorrow. We'll see you then. When water from the pipes was pouring down, filed a claim with his Cox. We turned it around. Across America, over 600,000 small businesses look to Hiscox Insurance for protection.
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