← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
11/17/25: Trump Brands MTG As Traitor, Trump Flips On Epstein Files In Final Hour
00:56:44
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast. I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [00:09]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [00:15]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [00:19]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [00:36]
Krystal Ball
No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is.
- [00:41]
Saagar Enjeti
Happening now through November 22nd.
- [00:43]
Krystal Ball
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and Too Faced. Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.
- [01:05]
Saagar Enjeti
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- [01:08]
Krystal Ball
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- [01:57]
Saagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:02]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:13]
Saagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com Good morning everybody. Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have? Crystal?
- [02:27]
Krystal Ball
Indeed we do. We are going deep on what's going on in maga. Trump feuding with MTG and Thomas Massie. We got a late night reversal from him on the Epstein files. Now he's telling Republicans that they should vote for the release. This is a huge deal. So a lot to get into there. Meanwhile, Nick Fuentes is declaring that MAGA is dead. And so that is certainly worth discussing and debating whether or not this moment does in fact spend spell the end of the of MAGA effectively and how weakened President Trump is in this moment. We've also got Marjorie Taylor Greene telling the truth about Israel on CNN, much to Dana Bash's shock and chagrin. Israel also asking for a 20 year security agreement. Typically those have been 10 year. They're asking for more money as well, seemingly an acknowledgment that they understand the politics of Israel are shifting very quickly here in the US and we got some stuff from the Democratic side of the aisle as well, including new reporting on how Chuck Schumer, politically speaking, is a dead man walking. He probably won't get pushed out of leadership, but very unlikely that he would be able to run and succeed in 2028. So lot that's going on there as well. Don't want to lose sight of the Dems in all of this.
- [03:37]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, of course. I mean look, there's civil wars in both parties. That's really, I think, the theme of the show. Everybody please go ahead and sign up BreakingPoints.com to become a premium subscriber. You can support all of our work and if you can't become a premium subscriber right now, no worries. Please hit subscribe to this YouTube video or to anywhere on our YouTube channel if you're watch and if you're listening to this podcast, please just go ahead and send this episode to a friend. We have a huge amount of people who are now coming in in terms of new viewers, new listeners because of a lot of our Epstein coverage, which we've been on for the last five years. So first of all, it'd be great to have your support. You know, we never lost sight of the Epstein issue. But second, if you are, you know, if you like our Epstein coverage and somebody in your life is interested, please just send one of our episodes, one of our videos to a friend. It really helps the show grow. Rate us 5 stars on a podcast platform as well. But let's go ahead and start with mtg. As Crystal said, this is definitely the biggest news of the entire weekend, and it demonstrates a variety of different things, is that there's a huge split right now in the Republican Party being forced over Israel over Epstein by association, perhaps because of the association between those two. But MTG has now come under fire despite being one of the most loyal people to Donald Trump in the lead up to the 2024 election but exposing a rift on what MAGA America first and all that means in the first year now of the Trump administration. Let's go ahead and put the truth up there that came on some Friday night. Trump officially unendors Marjorie Taylor Greene. Here's what he had to say. I am withdrawing my support and endorsement of Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene over the great state of Georgia over the past few weeks, despite my creating record achievements, blah blah blah. What he continues to say is basically that she has lost the plot and that she is focusing on the Democratic Epstein hoax. Marjorie Taylor Greene responds. Then let's go and put her text please on the screen. President Trump just attacked me and lied about me. I haven't called him at all. I did send the text messages today. Apparently this is what sent him over the edge. The Epstein file. Of course he's coming after me. Hard to make an example to scare all Republicans before next week's vote to release the Epstein's files. It's astonished how hard he is fighting to stop the Epstein files from coming out that he actually goes to this level. But really most Americans wish he would fight this hard to help the forgotten men and women of America who are fed up with foreign wars, foreign causes, are going broke trying to feed families are losing hope of their ever achieving the American dream. That's what I voted for. I have supported President Trump with too much of my precious time, too much of my own money and fought harder for him even when almost all Republicans turned their backs and denounced him. I don't worship or serve Donald Trump. I worship God Jesus as my Savior and I serve my district GA14 and the American people. I remain the same today as I've always been. I will continue to pray this administration will be successful because the American people desperately deserve what they voted for. For me, I remain America first and America only. The text messages were especially noteworthy. Let's go to move those guys. Just to show you the exact text that she sent Donald Trump and which apparently are what sent him over the edge. This one directly to djt. Check the flight logs of Epstein's plane. Bill Clinton is there like 26 time. Hillary 2 for many of us releasing the Epstein files has always been for the women who were victims of Jeffrey Epstein, but also because we believe the Democrat bad guys like the Clintons were entangled involved with him. Epstein was a spider that wove the web of the deep state. Lean into it a second one that he sent to Natalie. This is one of Trump's chief aides who often drafts a lot of his truth socials. She says here, in every single interview I have done, I have defended President Trump. I've said over and over, the women say he did nothing wrong. And their attorney, he says he's the only one who's helped. And the Democrats had four years to release the files, but did nothing. Stop ignoring the women. Many of them literally voted for President Trump and say so publicly. Them being raped as teenagers is not a hoax. So this is really what sent him over the edge, Crystal. And I think it is exposing the rift entirely in terms of MAGA as a cult of personality and whether that cult of personality could withstand this issue of the Epstein files. Now, originally, there was a lot of MAGA pushback. Many of the biggest MAGA voices eventually retrenched. They decided to defend Donald Trump. You had the assassination of Charlie Kirk, which was kind of a coming together moment. But since that assassination, the Israel issue just continues to completely split apart the entire Republican Party. And Epstein has now become, I think, the flashpoint, not only because of his own connections to the Israeli government, but also because of Trump's complete reversal on the issue, despite, you know, we'll get to this in a little bit. He did eventually come out and say, release the Epstein files. That was a total 180 after basically throwing his entire administration's power at stopping that discharge petition. They just took that beating in the 2025 elections. Trump is at his absolute weakest right now. This is a battle over 2028. But it also exposes to the nth degree just how much of MAGA itself Trump only defines about his own personal loyalty, like endorsing Lindsey Graham and un. Endorsing Thomas Massie or going after him, going after mtg now in this specific way. And I do think this is the first time I've seen Trump actually weak with a lot of Republicans. And a lot of people are disgusted with his handling of this issue and of his own endorsing of mtg.
- [08:42]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. What I would say is do not underestimate this woman. Don't underestimate her.
- [08:46]
Saagar Enjeti
I agree.
- [08:47]
Krystal Ball
Because think about the fact that you have never had a Republican who turned on Trump and succeed, that Trump didn't get the better of that, didn't get excised from the party, didn't end up Jeff Flake or Liz Cheney or something like that, where they're just completely now anathema to the party, the base hates them, they're traitors, et cetera. He's trying to do that with Marjorie Taylor Greene and he is not succeeding. He's trying to do that with Thomas Massie, and he is not succeeding. This tells us a couple of things. Number one, I think both Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene chose the most intelligent possible issues to turn on Trump. Okay? Israel and the anti Semitism, wokeness, panic, and Epstein. Those are the first issues where we've really seen him vulnerable with the base and with an energized online constituency. So the issues she chose are incredibly, incredibly intelligent. And then she has gotten the better of him in all of these exchanges. Now, I don't know what is in Marjorie Taylor Greene's heart. I don't know what's in Donald Trump's heart, but we should look at all of these people as savvy political actors. And every single play that she has made has been extraordinarily savvy. Her messaging about how she always grounding it in her Christian faith and how she wants to reach out to the other side and how much she cares about the women here and how she's listening to them. And by the way, the women say, you did nothing wrong. So what's the problem here? Why don't you release it? This is the deep state. Didn't you say that's what you're all about? Her messaging at every turn has been extraordinarily clever and extraordinarily effective. So listen, Marjorie Taylor Greene may not come off as like an intellectual. I don't think she is an intellectual. But this is a very, very savvy political player who appears to be really the first Republican we have seen to turn on Trump in any significant way and actually come out on top of that exchange.
- [10:51]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's right. The thing is about Marjorie is that I think that what we take away from her is the same thing that Trump used to have as a superpower, which is authenticity. She really hasn't changed all that much. And to the extent that she has changed, which we'll get to in a little bit, she has apologized. I mean, when is the last time that you saw self criticism at a national stage level for a politician who is in real time assessing both new and actually grappling with the stakes of what happened and instead of blindly just supporting the sitting president? And I think that is something which a lot of people cannot. This is part of the reason why I don't think that many MAGA or MAGA aligned figures are gonna have a hard time explicitly moving past Marjorie Taylor Greene, because everything that comes from her seems authentic. On the Epstein issue, from the Israel issue. Glenn Greenwald says something interesting, which is, if you look at the founder's conception of a citizen legisl, there is something genuinely refreshing about Marjorie Taylor Greene where it actually does seem like this is a person who's taking in new information, reassessing and actually sticking to a set of principles that she tried to from the very beginning. You can potentially see it as a cynical move, and maybe it is, and maybe it's just authentic and it's strategic, which makes you something called a good politician. But that's really the way that I'm looking at this right now with Marjorie. We did have President. We did have Marjorie Shelley Greene now explicitly, I mean, embracing the fight with Trump. This is the other thing. It's not just one of those where Republicans in the past who have been attacked by Trump will be like, we have our differences. But of course, I still support the president. She's in full on attack war mode. Let's go to the next one, please. Just to give you an example, Marjorie Taylor Greene now blaming Trump for some of the threats that she has received. She says the hoax pizza deliveries has started now to my house, to my family. We have received a pipe bomb threat on my construction companies. President Trump's unwarranted and vicious attacks against me were a dog whistleblower to dangerous radicals that lead to serious attacks on me and my family. I've been down this road before. As a matter of fact, I campaigned all over the country defended Trump. I received dozens of swatting calls in my house. My family members will take these pokes, pizza deliveries, even more severely. I have received some of the most death threats of any member of Congress that led to multiple men being convicted, serving time in prison. All of that came from the left. Now President Trump has called me a traitor, which is untrue and horrific. Mark Levin has called me a traitor. So have other prominent, likely paid social media activists. This puts blood in the water, creates a feeding frenzy. It could ultimately lead to a harmful or even a deadly outcome. The timing of this just happens to be days before we take the vote on releasing the Epstein files. I love America, the American people. I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. I am not a traitor. However, when the President of the United States irresponsibly calls a member of Congress of his own party traitor, he is signaling what must be done to a traitor. I fought harder than anyone else to get Trump elected. I support this administration and the promises we made in the campaign. I'm a Republican in good standing. I've paid all My dues, my voting record is one of the most conservative in Congress. I'm proud of that. The toxic and dangerous rhetoric in politics must end. We need healing in this country for all Americans. And I think what strikes me again about that is the confrontational nature that she is taking there to Donald Trump. But she's also very strategically calling out the word traitor. What does the word traitor mean? Right. Remember we talked about this when Hillary, for example, accused Tulsi of being a Russian ass. It's like, you can't just say traitor and treason and imply that people are explicitly against the country itself. Well, they happen to disagree with you on this issue. She also points out people like Mark Levin and others who are supposedly not traitors to Donald Trump because, of course, they support Israel, and they support Trump only because he is explicitly pro Israel. And so she's again drawing the contrast between fighting for an issue set and in here, the Epstein one, where Trump is really on the ropes and pointing out the inconsistencies in who he goes after and who he doesn't. Trump did respond to her comments. Here's what he had to say late last night.
- [14:44]
Krystal Ball
Her life could be a danger. Because of the rhetoric.
- [14:47]
Saagar Enjeti
Her life is in danger. Who's that?
- [14:50]
Krystal Ball
Marjorie Taylor Greene, she says.
- [14:52]
Saagar Enjeti
Marjorie Traitor Greene. I don't think her life is in danger.
- [14:56]
Krystal Ball
I don't think, Frankly, I don't think.
- [14:58]
Saagar Enjeti
Anybody cares about her. Okay, what about you? Nobody cares about her. He's trying to write her off as irrelevant. It's just not. I mean, you cannot get your way out of this. And, you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene, again, she's very, very effective. More recently in a lot of her interviews, fighting against the traitor label. She took to CNN yesterday. Let's take a listen to what she had to say.
- [15:19]
Krystal Ball
I stood with President Trump when virtually no one else did. Campaigned all over the country, spent millions of my own dollars helping him get elected. And I think that's incredibly important. And I do support him and his administration, and I support them in delivering the campaign promises we made to the American people. His remarks, of course, have been hurtful. However, I have something in my heart that I think is incredibly important for our country, and that is to end the toxic fighting in politics. And this has been going on for years, and it has divided our country, split up friends and families, neighbors, and it's not solving our problems. The most hurtful thing he said, which is absolutely untrue, is he called me a traitor. And that is. That is so extremely wrong. And those are the types of words used that can radicalize people against me and put my life in danger. What do you think happened?
- [16:24]
Saagar Enjeti
What do you think is the reason for this?
- [16:30]
Krystal Ball
Unfortunately, it has all come down to the Epstein files. And that is shocking. And, you know, I stand with these women. I stand with rape victims. I stand with children who are in terrible sex abuse situations. And I stand with survivors of trafficking and those that are trapped in sex trafficking. And I will not apologize for that.
- [16:55]
Saagar Enjeti
So, I mean, if you look at the framing there, her attack on Trump, she seems somber in there. She's calling for unity. I mean, this seems to me like all of the hallmarks of a 2028 presidential run. And I don't think it's an accident that this comes on the Epstein issue, that this comes after Trump just took a beating in the midterm elections. And more importantly, though, it was a time for choosing for Trump. Trump has chose now to be just ridiculously pro Israel. He's chosen a lot of the business community. He's ignoring a lot of the economic problems and basically attack anybody who distracts from the issues or even dissents and says that they're not true MAGA going after them with the full force of his administration. And he's very unpopular right now. He's in Biden territory. So this is part of what explains everything.
- [17:42]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [17:46]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [17:51]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's tried to divide people.
- [17:55]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America. So you're telling me that the AI that's meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage on top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI to change how you do business. Let's create Smile to business IBM.
- [18:42]
Krystal Ball
No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is.
- [18:47]
Saagar Enjeti
Happening now through November 22nd.
- [18:49]
Krystal Ball
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and Too Faced. Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and Body Mist. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here. Here's the thing is, number one, the timing as you're Pointing out he just took this absolute drubbing coast to coast. Everybody knows it's a sign of major weakness and backlash against his administration. He's a literal lame duck. He's an old man. He's falling asleep in meeting, and he's extraordinarily unpopular. And then you have this real sore spot with the base where it's the one issue on the Epstein files. It's the one issue where they are extremely dissatisfied with how he's handling it. Then you think about who Marjorie Taylor Greene is. You know, she's not Liz Cheney, neocon type, right? Marjorie Taylor Greene does not exist outside of maga. Right. She is not a member of Congress. If Donald Trump never is on the scene, she comes directly out of this movement as like, you know, a Facebook posting. QAnon Mom. That's who she is. So she has credibility there with Trump's base as like, you know, this isn't some sort of legacy Republican who just saw the writing on the wall about maga's ascent and decided to conveniently and cynically bend the knee. No, she springs directly out of maga. So she has some purchase and credibility to say, I am actually representing the true principles of maga. Now, that has never worked in the past. In the past, Trump has been right that he has always gotten to say, no, I get to say what MAGA actually is. But now you have enough weakness and enough dissatisfaction on these key issues that you start to be able to gain some purchase with that sort of argumentation, especially when you are a person like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has that kind of credibility. The other thing I notice, you know, you were talking about how she's apologized for some of the toxicity and the toxic politics that she has embraced. I mean, this is someone who has used extraordinarily violent extremist rhetoric against her political opponents. You know, she's been on board with everything Trump has done basically up until this moment and up until this year. And to be clear, I think you should evaluate every politician as a cynical actor. Like, sure, she has her own political goals, and the moves she's making in this moment align with whatever those political goals are. But it's also interesting to me, her approach is really a direct contrast from how Trump conducts himself on the political scene, because his motto is always, never back down, Never apologize. Right? Even right now where he's doing a total 180 and now saying, yes, go ahead and reverse release the Epstein files. He's pretending like that was his position all along. Like, he'll never admit that he got something wrong, he'll never apologize. And so stylistically, she is striking this incredible contrast, which I also think has a certain appeal to people. Now, I don't wanna go too far because, look, I'm not in the Republican base. I don't know ultimately how that will shake out for 2028, whether people will see her as a traitor to the cause, whether she will ultimately end up in like a Liz Cheney kind of bucket it as a quote, unquote, traitor. That's certainly what Trump is trying to accomplish. And I am a little skeptical of the fact, like, you know, the fact I find what she's saying appealing is a bit of a red flag to me. Like, is this kind of like a Fetterman of the right, you know, where, you know, people on the. People who are Democrats are like, look at her on the View, look at cnn. Look at how reasonable she's being in contrast to this madman. And that makes their own base, the Republican base, hate her. That is a possibility as well that I want to put out there, too. But right now, in this moment, I think she's been extremely savvy and picked exactly the right weak point in his defenses to sort of take her stand here. And also, Sager, yes, she's going directly against him, but then again, she's also draping herself in. I support this administrator. I spent millions of my dollars to get this man elected. I still want him to succeed. I want him to accomplish the things that he ran on for the American people. So it's also not a total hard break where she's just saying, I'm done with this and now moving to the other side. And I think that also is part of what's savvy about the way she's positioned herself.
- [23:11]
Saagar Enjeti
I think that's an extremely important point. Let's understand MTG and the Liz Cheney type phenomenon. Now, what would attacking Trump in a, quote, liberal way look like? Right. It would be by attacking him. I don't even. I'm not even. I can't even really think. Probably on immigration, I mean, yeah, let's.
- [23:29]
Krystal Ball
Say Liz Cheney, it was on January 6th. That's when she turned on. Right. So here you could say, you know, you may be on CCOT or maybe on like the National Guard deployment and the authoritarianism. Right, those sorts of things.
- [23:42]
Saagar Enjeti
Right. But that's not it. So it's not the liberal framing of the critique. It's actually why I think it's so effective is it's explicitly about the campaign promises and the spirit of why Trump got elected in the first place and saying, hey, that was a betrayal. Now, the reason I think it may resonate with you or other like commentators is that one of the ways that a lot of the Democrats have recognized to try and gain background is they're like, well, one way that we have to win is in a bigger tent is to convince people to vote for us. And one of the ways to do that is to say the other person that you voted for didn't deliver what you promised. Now, but that's an important distinction in terms of what makes somebody a quote, turncoat and somebody who is actually authentically within, in that ideological sphere and then speaking out against that. The Republican critique of her right now, like the pro Trump critique, is that she's undermining the administration, not that she is somebody who has turned on everything that she used to believe in the past. I don't think that that's the case now. In terms of her stylistic apology, I read that very much in the way of actually coming to terms with a couple of things. First and foremost was the Israel criticism, because I think it was a huge eye opener for her in particular to take in a lot of the information about Israel to conclude ultimately that we should not militarily support this nation. She even went so far as to call it a genocide. And I think what she understood is that in the past, you know, for a lot of politicians, they just bought the Israel propaganda kind of hook, line and sinker. And what they watch is that nasty rhetoric be employed against them for simply acknowledging basic truths like, hey, you're slaughtering a lot of women and children. And I do think that that in particular a lot of the nastiness and the rhetoric, when they see how that is weaponized against them for merely just speaking their own mind and for trying to uphold those very principles that makes them reassess how they themselves have acted in the past and also how you want to try and build some consensus in the future. And so this is one of those where what they're all everybody is trying to sketch out bets right now. We were just looking at the morning this morning, Ted Cruz attacking Tucker Carlson. Part of it is because he wants to make a 2028 run. Part of here with MT explicitly picking and saying, hey, I feel like a lot of the promises are being betrayed. But you know, also with mtg, you know, to give her at least some credit, you know, if she is cynical, she often talks about her children and she talks often about the ability to purchase a home. Her Home state of Georgia, by the way. I was just, we were just looking at some economic stuff this morning. Georgia is not doing very well in terms of their economy. They just had those Democratic swings against them. Like if you want to preserve ability to win or winning this of the recent Republican coalition, you have to kind of return to a lot those roots. She also, she passes a vibe check in terms of her ability to go and to do a lot of what Trump did in the original 2024 campaign. She was just on the Tim Dillon podcast. I thought she handled it incredibly well. She can go on the View. She handled herself, I thought there quite competently. She could pretty much go anywhere and handle anything. And that is something again, which I don't think that Donald Trump would actually do very well on a podcast right now if he's actually even remotely challenged, let's say on Epstein or any of the promises that he originally made in 2024, because the power is now real for her. She can actually critique. And that's a very, very powerful. I've talked previously about kind of the rise of Nick Fuentes and others, and one of the things that Emily has said, I'm borrowing this, it's not my take, but I think it's so deeply true, is there is not a lot of space in the MAGA machine and in particular in Republican media for people who are not liberals to critique the Trump administration. That doesn't exist. There's no permission structure. It's a lot like Joe Biden saying he's senile back in, what, 2023. That was like, we could not say those things in Democratic aligned spaces, even though a huge portion of the Democratic base was like, he's too old, he's too old, he's too old, he's too old. Well, there is a lot of American dissatisfaction, including people who voted for Donald Trump, who again, are not liberals. These are not bleeding heart liberals, but they are upset. And so to see them validated in this politician, it seems courageous. It's a big bet again. Will it work out? I mean, who knows, right? It's only November. There's three years to go still. Two years basically till the actual primary really gets started in. Is it Iowa still for the Republicans? I forget. I think it's still Iowa and New Hampshire. Like, yeah, look, nobody's gonna make any declarations and she could absolutely crash and burn that midterm elections will be an interesting test. She's unendorsing. He said in a follow on truth, he wants somebody to run against her. Let's see, let's see how it works out. But he's also going against Thomas Massie, and it doesn't look like that's really working out that well. For example, his most recent critiques I think are probably only gonna strengthen Thomas Massie. Let's put that on the screen. For example, what we have here, Trump says, did Thomas Massie, sometimes referred to as Rand Paul Jr because of the fact that he always votes against the Republican Party, get married already. Question, question, question. Boy, that was quick. No wonder the polls have him at less than 8% chance of winning the election. Not true. Anyway, have a great life, Thomas. And question mark. His wife will soon find out that she's stuck with a loser. So I mean, I think that that was a really, I don't know, I mean, it's one of those where a lot of people just looked at that are viscerally disgusted. Thomas Massie's wife tragically died, you know, of a hell of. His previous wife tragically died, you know, of a health incident. And he was obviously heartbroken recently. Just got remarried and he seemed pretty happy. I think that's great. I think most normal people are like, wow, that's fantastic. Congratulations, Thomas. Even in his announcement, he kind of made an ode to his dead wife and how he misses her all the time. And I think the visceral nature in which Trump attacked Massie is Massie. You can say whatever you want about him. I've criticized him here. I don't agree with everything that the guy says, but it's like mtg in. I believe that what he says is what he thinks. And that's the most right now. The biggest differentiation in all of politics is for Trump to attack him like that. That pushed a lot of people the wrong way. Cause it's like, really, you're gonna attack Thomas Massie not only politically, but on his personal life. And then you're gonna embrace Lindsey Graham and all of these other people who are explicitly against your so called campaign promises. And you know, we could talk personal life there too. All day long if we want to. It's like, who is your venom reserved for? And I think that really pushed a lot of people the wrong way.
- [30:13]
Krystal Ball
Crystal, I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [30:19]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [30:25]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide me.
- [30:27]
Saagar Enjeti
People, we got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News, reporting for America. So you're telling me that the AI that's meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage? On top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI to change how you do business. Let's create Smile to Business. IBM.
- [31:16]
Krystal Ball
No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is.
- [31:20]
Saagar Enjeti
Happening now through November 22nd.
- [31:22]
Krystal Ball
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and Too Faced. Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body makeup. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here. Let's be honest, if Trump said this about a designated MAGA enemy, no one would have a problem. No one on the right would have an issue with him. No, no one would have any issue with it.
- [31:55]
Saagar Enjeti
And he's done it many times, Right?
- [31:56]
Krystal Ball
Of course. Yeah. I mean, we could go back like the John McCain guy. Prefer my soldiers who don't get captured. I told Ted Cruz's wife was ugly. The fact that people are taking genuine issue with Trump crossing a moral line here, that people on the right are taking issue with that is a sign, number one, that they hold Thomas Massie in relatively high esteem and also see him as a principled actor. Right? And number two, it's a sign of Trump's weakness. Again, you know, the fact that there's anyone out there saying this was too far and this is disgusting, and I can't believe it. I mean, how many too far disgusting things Trump says and does, like, all the fricking time, right? So then it's like, okay, well, why was this one too far? And you know, ultimately, again, listen, Trump has been. He's been president twice. He almost won, you know, the second time as well. He's been a very intelligent political actor. So maybe we'll look back after all of this and say, you know what? He was right. Thomas Massie lost the primary. Trump was able to crush him. Marjorie Taylor Greene has been marched down to the party. She's got enough future. That's all still very possible and on the table. But right now, in this moment, I think we're seeing cracks and fissures that we've truly never seen before. And we're seeing a weakness with Trump with his own base that we've also really never seen before. I do want to go back to this Marjorie Taylor Greene side because this was the one where I saw the most pushback from the right on things that she's been saying and doing because she did that big interview with Dana Bash, and Dana asked her, I think, quite reasonably, like, okay, well, you're upset about Trump calling you a traitor. I've never seen you upset about his comments going too far before, even though he uses that type of rhetoric all the time. So why is it different now that it's you and leads to pretty, you know, an extraordinary admission for a politician of like, look, I'm sorry, you're right. You know, it's a reasonable criticism. And I'm sorry. Let's take a listen to a four.
- [33:55]
Saagar Enjeti
You posted on X that President Trump is, with his comments fueling a, quote, hotbed of threats against you.
- [34:03]
Krystal Ball
Obviously any threats to your safety are completely unacceptable.
- [34:07]
Saagar Enjeti
But we have seen these kinds of.
- [34:09]
Krystal Ball
Attacks or criticism from the president at other people. It's not new. And with respect, I haven't heard you.
- [34:17]
Saagar Enjeti
Speak out about it until it was directed at you.
- [34:24]
Krystal Ball
Dana. I think that's fair criticism. And I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country. And it's been something I've thought about a lot, especially since Charlie Kirk was assassinated, is that we. I'm only responsible for myself and my own words and actions. And I am going, I am committed, and I've been working on this a lot lately to put down the knives in politics. I really just want to see people be kind to one another. And we need to figure out a new path forward that is focused on the American people. Because as Americans, no matter what side of the aisle we're on, we have far more in common than we have differences. And we need to be able to respect each other with our disagreements.
- [35:19]
Saagar Enjeti
Wow.
- [35:20]
Krystal Ball
And Tagra, I wonder what you make of that, because the whole ethos of MAGA is own the lips. Like, it's never been like some principled intellectual, oh, we have these positions and we stick to them. Listen, there's some imaginary version of that that some think tankers have tried to put into place, but the reality is the core binding principle is own the libs. Give no quarter to your enemies. Give no quarter to anyone who is at to the left of you whatsoever. And so this was the thing that I saw. You can tell me if you think differently, but that she got the most pushback from conservatives of basically like, how dare you go on cnn, in the lion's den and you apologize to them. And right on the heels of Charlie Kirk's assassination and you wanna go and she didn't apologize to you. There's no accountability here whatsoever. How dare you go in and say that you're sorry for participating in toxic politics. So I think this is in some ways the riskiest approach that you're going on the View and being very conciliatory, Going on CNN with Dana Bash and being very conciliatory here. I wonder what you make of it.
- [36:25]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean it's fascinating to me because the reason. Okay, let's explain too. The real reason is because the post Charlie Kirk unity thing was yeah, we all disagree, but what we're gonna do is we're gonna unite and we're gonna get Trump administration to declare war on antifa or whatever. Right, use NSPM 7. We talked about all of that. Well, she kind of had the similar take that I did is I was like, man, we have a sick culture, we have a sick society. It's actually really shocking to see somebody just assassinated in cold blood over their political views. And if we're all gonna have to live together, then there's just a simple way to get past that. Trump's initial response, I was like, oh my God, it's the worst possible thing type of thing, pouring gasoline on the fire. That's what he does. He's often done it to his own political benefit. But I do think, I really believe that this is her genuine belief because she mentions the Charlie Kirk assassination and she also look, as you said, about owning the libs. At a certain point though, at what point does it just become the central driving thing? If you care about anything, if you really do care about anything, you can hate liberals. I certainly have my moments. But, but at a certain point, if you have children, if you care about housing, if you care about economy, if you care about jobs, if you care about people's ability to simply exist in the world, at what point does that just actually directly obscure all of the things that the administration has done, is doing or is not addressing in those core issues? That's really where I thought, you know, the big jump point for 2025 was, is a lot of people really did vote. I think not only in terms of opposition to Donald Trump, but a lot of people didn't come out to vote. You know, the so called swing coalitions and others who were largely supportive of Trump in 2024 cause actually thought he was gonna help their life. And I do think that we're entering perhaps an age where the material, kind of the material outlook of your life, especially if you're my age, if you're 33 years old, I don't think it's good. I think it's bad. I think that if you're Gen Z, if you're younger in particular, I don't even. I don't. I mean, do any of us truly have a hope of doing better in life than our parents did? That is the actual American dream. People talk a lot. And many people have been willing to go past that in order to vote for something cultural. You know, 2022, as an example, even Trump, I think in a lot of ways, 2024, she's making a bet that those things are becoming so bad, so ever present that she actually wants to try and to focus on that. And so I do think, you know, there's a commendation. Part of the reason why I think a lot of the Republicans are speaking out against is ultimately that is what unites, you know, much of MAGA is, is, look, there's a reason they don't talk a lot about the inconsistencies within maga. There's a reason that they don't acknowledge the Epstein files mentioning Trump. There's a reason they don't talk about the corruption, let's say, of the Trump administration or any of the many faults from personnel, the inconsistent Venezuela. A lot of the stupid and insane stuff that they have done currently is because it's about uniting in opposition to a different political agenda. And I think that if you start to, to look at things in more material views and also with a lot of the other country, it does kind of lead you back to where Marjorie Taylor Greene is right now. And I do think, considering how that view of power has been now exercised by the Trump administration and a lot of people reject it. It's also not all that politically popular right now. People don't really care about owning anyone if your life is not getting better. They just don't.
- [39:54]
Krystal Ball
I have a burgeoning theory, a little, A little kernel of a theory that I'll put out there and people can tell me what you think about this because honestly, I don't know enough about Facebook world to really say for sure, but when we think of someone being very online, we think of them largely being like super on Twitter. Right, super on Twitter and these weird podcast realms or whatever. JD Vance is that version of very, very online. And we've been talking here about increasingly since Elon purchased just Twitter. It has sort of Damned the Republicans in a sense because they believe that all their like sadistic, you know, fascist porn nonsense is actually, is way more popular than it actually is. And so they've been totally out over their skis. The DHS just like Nazi posting on Maine, all this kind of crap. Right. Marjorie Taylor Greene is. This is also very online, but she comes out of like the, the Facebook boomer mom world, which is still more, which is more connected to those like material concerns, you know, inflation and oh my God, here's the prices at the grocery store. And also is gonna maybe have more of that sense of, you know, just sort of disgust at the overall, at the political system and the nastiness and the viciousness. So it's. Again, this is, I'm flirting with this theory. I'm not asserting it for sure, but her different orientation here and the fact that she's been able to put to pick up on some vibrations within the Republican base that other politicians did not pick up on and be a little bit ahead of the curve, maybe because she is in touch with a different constituency than most Republican politicians have been and that, you know, the J.D. vance's of the world are. So that could be part of why she's positioning herself in a different way. Because the media and the content she's consuming and the people that she is sort of centering her views on and you know, using as her own barometer for where the bases are. A different group than the kind of like elite influencers and podcasters that many Republican politicians are much more attuned to.
- [42:00]
Saagar Enjeti
Very maybe could be online. I could just be being a little bit more in touch. You know, just go talk to people, go ask them what's, what's bugging. You know, I talk to a lot of newer parents. That's who I've mostly been hanging out with. What are people complaining about? Daycare prices. Right. They're talking about inflation, they're talking about the difficulty of juggling things, buying a new house, interest rates that dominates 95% of the discussion. It's not even really political. But you and I both know that is political. Whereas, you know, if you're online or if you're very on Twitter, then a lot of it is like, oh, so and said this how nasty of the left or why we have to crush them. I do, I've always said, I think the Twitter thing has been a huge problem. I think a lot of them are huffing their own bullshit. They are basically the mirror image of the Biden administration. They're posting charts about how well the economy is doing when every piece of consumer sentiment data says that it's going the opposite direction. All you have to do, if you are just as consistent as you were under the Biden administration at looking at fundamentals for why people angry, discontent, upset, which leads to the Trump popular vote in 2024, then it doesn't. All you have to do is stay consistent to that to see the same playbook run under Trump. In fact, a sign that you're a hack is if you're doing the opposite of what you said back in 2024. So, you know, maybe she's just staying consistent with that. I have no idea what it is, but it is noteworthy. And of course, what's most noteworthy is this is on the issue of Epstein, I turned off news altogether.
- [43:29]
Krystal Ball
I hate to say it, but I.
- [43:31]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [43:36]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [43:40]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America. So let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and everywhere, but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere?
- [44:09]
Krystal Ball
Seems like something's missing.
- [44:11]
Saagar Enjeti
Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives to change how you do business. Business. Let's create Smile to business. IBM.
- [44:27]
Krystal Ball
No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is.
- [44:32]
Saagar Enjeti
Happening now through November 22nd.
- [44:34]
Krystal Ball
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and Too Faced. Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.
- [44:58]
Saagar Enjeti
Turning now to the issue of Jeffrey Epstein and their vote to release the Epstein files, an extraordinary late night truth from Donald Trump saying Republicans now should vote to release them. Let's put it up here on the screen. As I said on Friday night aboard Air Force One, to the fake news media. House Republicans should vote to release the Epstein files because we have nothing to hide. It's not what he said and we'll show you that audio just in a second. But he says it's time to move on from this Democratic hoax perpetuated by the radical left lunatics in order to deflect from the great success of the Republican Party, including our recent victory on the Democratic shutdown. The Department of Justice has already turned over tens of thousands of pages to the public on Epstein. Are looking at various Democratic operatives. Bill Clinton, Reid Hoffman, Larry Summers and their relationship. The House Oversight Committee have whatever they are legally entitled to. I don't care, exclamation. All I do care about is that Republicans are back on point which is the economy, blah blah blah. So the whole point is he just says nobody cared about Epstein when he was alive and if the Democrats had anything they would have released it before a landslide election. Some members of the Republican Party are being used and we can't let that happen. Let's start talking about the Republican Party's record setting achievements. Not fall into the Epstein trap which is actually a curse on the Democrats. Not us. Make America great again. So what he's saying is let's vote to release the Epstein files because it only implicates the Democrats. Let's not talk about the Epstein files because if we do, it's gonna distract from Republicans. If we do talk about them, it is actually just all about the Democrats anyways. So I am completely absolved also just to be clear, 100% because people are not making this emphatic. As of literally 48 hours ago, he was telling everybody don't vote for The Epstein files 100%. His own white House brought Lauren Boebert to the White House Situation Room to be briefed by the FBI director and the Department of Justice telling her please do not sign this discharge petition. He called Nancy Mace. Huge lobbying effort. The only reason he's saying it now and giving permission is that it looked like at the very least 50 and possibly up to 100 Republicans were gonna vote for the Epstein files released anyways. And so he backtracked originally. Here's what he said on Air Force 148 hours ago ago. Take a listen. Why was your team encouraging Congressman Boebert.
- [47:10]
Krystal Ball
Congresswoman Mace to not pursue this?
- [47:12]
Saagar Enjeti
We think it's bad to talk about it because it gets away from the subject of how well the Republicans are doing. We have the greatest economy. We have the largest investment ever made in our country's history. We have all of these great things happen. We have very little inflation whereas he had record setting the biggest inflation in history. All of these things are good. And when you talk about the Epstein hoax, what happens is you're not talking about how well we've done. Mr. President on that subject. The whole purpose behind that, they want to waste people's time and some of the Dumber Republicans like that. Mr. President, on that subject, are we going to see. It's mostly Democrats, So there you go. That's what he said. So whatever he claims, as I said, Republicans should vote for it. That's not what he said, Chris. That's what you all showed there. He got. This is a. This was 100%. I've never seen this before. I've never seen him get absolutely destroyed. Like he had to do. This is W and Obama level, like in the second term, where the base or the Republican Party is gonna take a vote against the White House and the White House just has to eat shit and swallow it and pretend that they supported it the whole time. I've never seen this in 10 years of covering Donald Trump.
- [48:26]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, no, I mean, it truly is a first. First. They were whipping super hard against these. This thing. They were threatening Republicans that he would maybe, you know, endorse an opponent against them. They were offering carrots. So we'll support you in your race if you don't vote for it. I mean, they were going all in. And then apparently what happened is when they realized we're going to have mass defections here, he thought it would appear less weak for him to completely flip. Flip and now support. Oh, of course I want you to support releasing the files. I've always wanted that. You know, we all, like five minutes ago, remember you being adamantly opposed on the other side of this. He thought that would be a less weak position than watching perhaps some 100 Republicans vote against his explicit wishes. Now, the other game that's going on here is you'll recall that we could put B3. Let's go and jump forward to B3 and put this up on the screen. He asked Pam Bondi to investigate the Epstein ties to various Democrats. Reid Hoffman. I don't. Larry Summers. There was one other one as well. But in any case is like, look into those things in the Epstein files. Not him, of course, even though he's mentioned thousands and thousands of times just in the emails that were released last week. But don't look into that. Just look into some of my ideological adversaries. And so what Thomas Massie and others who understand this process are saying is that if there's an ongoing investigation, he could use that and his government could use that to say, even if this vote goes through the House and this vote goes through the Senate and he signs it, that those certain files, oh, we can't release those because now there's an ongoing and active investigation. So that may be part of what the game that's going on here as well, not to mention these files are being held by his own government. I don't think anyone has any expectation that they're not going to be, you know, scrubbed, manipulated, pieces withheld that are unflattering to him or to his ideological allies. So I think he just decided the risk was too great on the other side and the political damage too great on the other side of continuing to appeal. Like he was, you know, super guilty. Obviously, from his behavior, he looked really, really guilty and then extremely weak when a significant chunk of your own party, over your active wishes, still votes for this thing. And one more thing, Sagar here is you got to give Ro Khanna tons of credit here. This is his bill. This is Ro Khanna's bill, a Democratic bill. And while Democrats, early on, you remember back when we interviewed Alyssa Slotkin, the line coming from almost all of them was the Epstein files are a dist. Sure, we'd like to know what's in them, but those are a distraction. We need to be focused on the real issues affecting the American people. And like most people, felt like you could do both. And number two, just from a pure political standpoint, I think Ro Khanna recognized, just like Marjorie Taylor Greene did and Thomas Massie did, this is a real weak spot for Trump. This is a real problem for him. And so we need to press on this. We need to be like a dog with the bone on this thing, thing. And lo and behold, his insight there and his persistence to push this thing and to get ideological allies on the other side of the aisle in Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene and others to stand alongside him, that is causing maybe the biggest damage, the most extraordinary damage that we have seen to Trump and his image with his own base, that in the whole time that he's been on the scene.
- [52:08]
Saagar Enjeti
Absolutely. Part of it is also just the extreme nature of the issue. Like, this is Epstein. This is a disgusting pedophile. This is a guy who was hanging, palling around with literally the global elite. This is now a 10 year, a five, six year long thing that's baked in, I think, to a lot of American consciousness, especially for newer entrants into the political spectrum. Because let's say you're a younger person, you already know that the system is right. You hate a lot of the elites. Then you learn about the Epstein thing, you're like, wow, they're actually like depraved disgust. They protect their own interests and all. And then you see Trump, who you believed was somebody who would speak against the system, who was revolutionary, who promised to release those files, come in, be named in those files, lobby, act guilty, make it so that they're not going to be released, do everything possibly in your power to try and con the American people to say that there's nothing in them. Exactly. Even though many of the members of your administration said they were in them. It's just too much for people. That's why I think this issue is the one on which there is such a break. It's also where a lot of Republicans, they're like, look, man, people can forgive for a lot. They can't forgive covering up pedophilia. It's just one of those where that transcends or is supposed to all political lines. Right? And that's part of why the salience of this issue is so important. Not to mention all of the foreign connections, including to Israel, which I think is a big reason why they also don't want most of the truth to actually come out. It's heartening to me to see Republicans who do try and do take the Trump tack just get ridiculously attacked. Let's put this one up here on the screen. This is B4, please, just to give you a little bit of a taste. You had Congressman Troy Nails. He's a very Trump sycophant. He tries to take the Trump line. He gets destroyed in a lot of his replies. He says, I'll be voting no on the Epstein hoax. The Democrats are using the hoax to distract us from the winning of the Trump administration. My message to Republican colleagues, don't let this noise keep us from delivering on the mandate the American people gave us. As you guys can see, he's got over 17,000 replies. And look, you know, Trump is not. Twitter is not, not entirely real life. But if you look at it, you know, a lot of these are big time Republican reply accounts that are like, this is disgusting. There's not a single good reason not to do it. Pedophile protector, you know, even Nancy Mace, other congressman. It says weird and sketchy how you guys are acting here. You've got APAC tracker that's all up in there. By the way, Marjorie Taylor Greene has been posting a lot of her APAC tracking, you know, graphics, just to show you the AIPAC tracker who we had on earlier that they say is not going to, that they say just to show everybody how powerful they are. And now AIPAC is even fundraising off of the interview that we had with AIPAC tracker to say that those are the radicals that are Trying to take them down. But I just wanna show people, I think this thing with Congresswoman or the Democratic Representative Stacey Plaskett, where she was getting texts in the middle of a hearing hearing from Jeffrey Epstein, is part of the reason, I think is that a lot of Americans actually do understand not just the bipartisan nature of this, but how it really does ensnare all elites. And the more that Trump, who was a revolution against those elites, appears to just be one of those people, which you could always say maybe he was. And that's been a lot of the critique. But to really hammer that home in this story, that is what people find so disgusting. You know, I think about it and so let's give an example here. Just the fulsome nature of. Part of the reason why these files need to be released cuz they implicate so many people, is these show that in a 2019 hearing, Michael Cohen, he's testifying that Epstein is texting the Democratic representative from the US Virgin Islands where he owns the island and who that island has done quite a bit to cover up a lot of what he did while he was there. Let's watch the video and let's take a a listen. Obama was President of the United States and while we were once driving through a struggling neighborhood in Chicago, he commented that only black people could live that way. Attorney client privilege. Yes, I will turn it over. You, as my friend Mr. Meadows pointed out, misled this committee even today in a written submission that contradicted your testimony. You have suggested you are going to review that. Did you review, Are you going to review it? Now our next break to correct the record. Yes or no? Yes. Question. You helped out the President's campaign or were involved in the campaign as a representative, as a spokesman, even in your words today, was your idea for the campaign dating back to 2011, is that accurate? Yes or no? Yes. Mr. Weisenberg and other individuals. Ms. Rona, who are those individuals? Are they with the Trump Organization?
- [56:44]
Krystal Ball
They.
- [56:44]
Saagar Enjeti
Are there other people that we should be meeting with? So Allen Weisselberg is the Chief Financial Officer. Uh huh. You gotta quickly give us as many names as you can so we can get to them. Yes, ma'.
- [56:56]
Krystal Ball
Am.
- [56:56]
Saagar Enjeti
As Ms. Rona, what is Ms. Rona's position? Rona Graff is the Mr. Trump's executive assistant.
- [57:02]
Krystal Ball
And would she be able to corroborate.
- [57:04]
Saagar Enjeti
Many of the statements that you've made here? Yes, she was. Her office is directly next to his and she's involved in a lot. I mean, how crazy is that? Crystal you literally have her getting live text messages from Jeffrey Epstein, prodding questions. She's looking down at her phone, using those questions with Michael Cohen, and then he's praising her good work. All of this matters. Let's be 100% clear. Why does it matter? Put the next one on the screen. Julie Brown has done a great job of covering this. We've covered it here as well. Some of the US Virgin Islands corruption that has happened with Epstein. As she points out, she has accepted huge amounts of money from. Epstein was one of the few people who refused to return campaign contributions even after it was clear he had committed a lot of the crimes against girls. So just again, to show you all, and remember that there were all kinds of COVID ups going on in the U.S. virgin Islands, including with prosecutors and others to stop some of the crimes in the estate from being released out into the public. And she, he is at the center of all of this. So that's the point, is this does ensnare everybody. Yeah. It ensnares Trump. I don't personally care whether it ensnares Trump, Democrat, whoever. I just want the information to come out because I do think it's so important to show how depraved and disgusting the American elite is, not just in their personal conduct, but how they'll do business with anyone, and how that person who is in this depraved universe uses it to his own ends to enrich himself and to act on behalf of multiple foreign governments. I think that's a pretty big story. I think it confirms what a lot of people think about our system, about our government, about the way things in power actually work. But that's part of why Trump, who's in power, doesn't want it to come out. So you put this stuff together. This is why it all needs to come out. We can't have people like this in Congress, period. At least that's my standard.
- [58:54]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. Now, in fairness to her, after major pushback, she did decide to return the contributions that had come from Epstein.
- [59:01]
Saagar Enjeti
Okay.
- [59:02]
Krystal Ball
But you know, the. Yeah, I mean, look, if anyone is out there watching a program that only cares about the Epstein connections on one partizan side or the other, like, you need to get a new. You need to get a new media habit. Because obviously what Epstein exposes first and foremost is that, you know, these partisan differences when you talk about at the elite level level, oftentimes they crumble and they operate in very similar manner. But I will say at this point, the most important information to know is about the president of The United States, specifically because of those foreign government entanglements that drop site alone effectively has been covering, in particular with regard to his connections to Israel. We need to know if the President of the United States is compromised by Israel or by, you know, there was a Russian connection too. I'd like to know about that as well, or any other country that may be involved. Does Trump believe that these foreign governments have information on him that he would not like to come out? That is a very active question and that is very, very important and central right now, given the political power structure. The last thing I'll say, just to go back to that Troy Niels or whatever that guy's name is that put up that embarrassing tweet about how he was going to vote against them. Like, what does he do now? Now, Cuz now Trump's turned completely, and now he says, no, I want you to vote for the release. So this guy who completely humiliated himself on Trump's behalf out of his sycophantic nature, to bend the knee and say, no, no, sir, I promise I will do the thing that you want me to do and vote against this release. Now Trump has completely flipped his position. So what's this dude gonna do? I mean, it's just the level of humiliation that is gonna come for you. You. If you try to be like a good Trump foot soldier. It's. This is the most routine thing we have seen over the course of multiple Trump administrations at this point. Like, you will be humiliated. You will be forced to defend things that are completely indefensible. You will be made to, like, eat your words and just completely cuck yourself and look like the lamest, weakest person on the planet. So congratulations to that guy. Waiting. Go.
- [61:13]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, I totally agree. And let's, let's end with this new ad that's being released by many of the Epstein survivors. It's being played nationally to try and release the Epstein files and just keep the issue salient. Let's take a listen.
- [61:39]
Krystal Ball
I suffered so much pain. So much pain. So much pain. I suffered so much pain. I was 14 years old. I was 16 years old. 14 years old.
- [61:56]
Saagar Enjeti
This is me. This was me.
- [61:57]
Krystal Ball
This is me when I met Jeffrey Epstein. This is me when I met Jeffrey Epstein. There are about a thousand of us. It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows. It's time to shine a light into the darkness.
- [62:37]
Saagar Enjeti
Very powerful, as you can see there. You know, from the Epstein survivor. I think they're going to keep this a live issue. It's not going away, any attempt by the Trump administration to try and cover it up. Good luck to you folks, because I don't think that it's going to work. Foreign. This episode is brought to you by pbs, home of Ken Burns. His newest film, the American Revolution, reveals untold stories of people, some familiar, many forgotten, who risked everything to change the course of history. It's the story of a war that was bloody, complex and profoundly consequential. Ken Burns and his co directors Sarah Botstein and David Schmidt, shine a light on how this historic fight for independence lit the spark for freedom that still burns today. Stream the American Revolution on the PBS app. Don't miss it. Tis the season for identity theft. This time of year most of us are checking off our holiday gift lists. But guess what? Identity thieves have lists too, and your personal information might be on them. Protect your identity with LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss by yourself, even if you keep an eye on your bank and credit card statements. If your identity is stolen, your own US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. And all plans are backed by the million dollar protection package. The last thing you want to do this holiday season is face drainage accounts, fraudulent loans or other financial losses from identity theft all alone. Make this season about joy, not Identity theft with LifeLock, save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code IHEART or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms apply. Ah, greetings from my bath festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four. No fees, no interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal. Save the offer in the app ends 1231. See paypal.com promoter points can be redeemed for cash and more. Paying for subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 this is an iHeart podcast.