← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
11/18/25: Foreclosures Surge, Epstein Scandal Explodes, Trump Latino Support Plummets
01:03:27
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host/Advertiser
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [00:09]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [00:15]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [00:19]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [00:36]
Podcast Host/Advertiser
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- [00:54]
Krystal Ball
Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop.
- [00:56]
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- [01:09]
Krystal Ball
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- [01:38]
Saagar Enjeti
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [01:40]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:47]
Saagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:53]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:03]
Saagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com Good morning everybody. Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. We have Crystal.
- [02:15]
Krystal Ball
Indeed we do. We have Kevin Hassett of the White House telling us we may have a quiet period in the labor market. Nothing to be distressed about just because of AI displacement. Might be a little, a little quiet out there in terms of job creation. Also some updates on Larry Summers, who was heavily featured in those Epstein emails that were released. He says he is now stepping back from some of his public commitments, so we will dig into what was revealed there and his response. Also a bunch of updates with regard to ice. First of all, Latinos who had voted in significant numbers for Trump abandoning him, also in significant numbers. And the Greg Bovino team has now moved to Charlotte and then they're apparently planning to go to New Orleans. They'll break down what we know about those deployments and also the aftermath of what happened in Chicago. Some new indications about what we may be planning planning in Venezuela. We'll dig into that. Sager has a property tax update for all of us. Excited to hear from him on that one and really looking forward to this interview we have with a top AI safety researcher. This is a guy who had left OpenAI because of his concerns about the direction of AI. He is sounding the alarm and he co authored a paper called AI 2027 that's gotten a lot of attention. That is his and his co author's best guess of how AI is going to develop and the major consequential, potentially civilizational risks entailed in this multi trillion dollar project that the oligarchs and our government, Chinese and everybody else are throwing tons of money at, tons of effort at. So really looking forward to speaking with him. I've watched a bunch of his interviews and read his paper obviously, so that.
- [03:49]
Saagar Enjeti
Should be a good one. Really interesting guy. I've seen a bunch of his stuff and I know some of you are familiar as well. We play clips of him here on the show. Thank you to everybody who has been signing up at a premium subscriber, BreakingPoints.com, you can help support our work, our Epstein journalism and more. It actually deeply helps us out over here. If you can't afford it, no worries. Please just hit subscribe to this video or any of the videos on our YouTube channel. And if you're listening to this as a podcast, please send an episode to a friend. We've got a ton of new listeners actually coming in from the Epstein issue, which we're deeply proud to have you all here for trusting us with your news diet. So please send an episode to your friend if you're interested, or rate us 5 stars on your favorite podcast platform. It really helps other people find the show, but let's go ahead and start there. With the economy and this quiet period being described here by the White House in this AI, they're saying it's just a little cooling off. It's just a little bit of a blip of what's happening. Let's take a listen. Last CPI report, we got surprised 48 Bloomberg economists on the downside and even had some sort of temporary bad news because there was a refinery that was shut down. If you're looking at the top line number, I think that there have been mixed signals in the job market and really, really positive signals in the output markets. As you know, we've got GDP now running close to 4%, we've got productivity running up around 3%. And so I think that there could be a little bit of almost a quiet time in the labor market because firms are finding the AI is making their workers so productive that they don't necessarily have to hire the new kids out of college and so on. But because there's so much output growth and income growth, that's the kind of thing that, you know, a free market will work out relatively quickly as, you know, new ways to spend money emerge. Free market's gonna figure it out. Don't worry about it. Well, you know, it's one of those where I keep saying this. The Biden vibes on this are just so out of control. Like what they keep doing is they post charts, they say the economy is historically better than ever. If it is bad, it's always somebody else's fault. And if, you know, to the extent that it is somebody else's fault, we're also not gonn do anything about somebody else's fault. Right. So you can't. This is one of those where with AI they just continue to basically think that yes, it will shake out. It's free market Creative destruction, the libertarian's favorite word whenever it comes to this. And you know, maybe there is something to that. But part of what is so distressing and we're going to talk about with the AI 2027 plan is basically they keep saying stuff out loud like none of you are going to work in five years. And the government is just completely just letting it go. Just this morning, House Republicans are apparently scheming to try and put some language in that will block all states from regulating AI, any individual state. Remember this? They previously tried to pass this gambit and there was a pushback against it. And I'm increasingly just thinking like, look, I'm sorry, like we have to have Democratic check whenever it comes to our relationship with this technology, when billions of us are going to use it. And you out in your own words, if we take you seriously, it's going to cause mass layoffs. It's going to disrupt every facet of our society. It's just too important to leave it in the hands of Sam Altman. I don't trust him and I don't think anybody else should.
- [06:57]
Krystal Ball
Oh, or anyone.
- [06:58]
Saagar Enjeti
Or anyone.
- [06:59]
Krystal Ball
Or literally anyone else. I mean, so I actually have been thinking a lot about this this week, and increasingly, obviously, there's a lot going on with the Trump news. There's, you know, the Epstein files, there's the big beautiful bill, there's Venezuela, there's the ICE deployments. There's a lot of shit going on with the Trump administration. I'm increasingly feeling like the AI push is actually the main event.
- [07:20]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah.
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Krystal Ball
Is like the main. Not. Not just in terms of the consequences of it that I' been convinced of, but that, you know, in Trump's campaign, you'll recall, you had, first of all, him flip his position on a bunch of issues, including crypto, in order to please these tech oligarchs. You had a bunch of these tech guys who previously were like, more or less Democrats or voting for Democrats or supporting Democrats flip their support to Trump. You had Elon Musk himself coming in with, what, $250 million plus and taking an extremely aggressive, active role in the campaign, being influential in who Trump picked as his vp. And then what happens as soon as he comes into office? First of all, you guys will remember the images from the inauguration where he's surrounded by all of these tech barons. A striking image and a striking portrait of what was to come in that initial batch of executive orders. You remember, there was a whole slew of them, so it was somewhat lost, but immediately what he did was to roll back any of the safety guardrails that have been put in place by the Biden administration. The whole push of this administration has been to completely deregulate the tech industry. I mean, deregulation in general, but specifically the tech industry, and make it so that it was completely off to the races with this AI tech development with no brakes on the car. We had multiple press conferences with these guys. You see him at dinners with these guys. This is the central piece that this Trump administration really is about. They are placing this bet that, number one, we can beat China to ag, artificial general intelligence, and that, number two, it's going to magically solve more problems than it creates. When if you actually listen to the researchers of one of whom we're going to talk to today, if you listen to even guys like Sam Altman or Mark Zuckerberg, who's one of the least responsible actors actually in all of this, you listen to Elon Musk, they'll tell you we are planning to replace, at the very least, tens of Millions of jobs with robots like we are planning to make you irrelevant. This is already happening. We covered how Amazon, their plans to eliminate half a million jobs were leaked. The New York Times got their hands on it. They're already implementing this. There is a warehouse down, I believe in Shreveport, Louisiana, where it is largely robots already. So this is happening now. And the reason this clip from Kevin Hassett is so significant, I think, as far as I know, this is the first time the White House is acknowledging that that labor displacement is already happening now. It's happening exactly the places you would expect with coders and with new employees coming out of college so that those entry level jobs are being destroyed. People cannot get their foot on the ladder. That is where it starts. But they have much bigger goals. So when he says, oh, it's just a quiet time and plays it down and frames it, actually Sagar, like this is some plus. Oh, they're just, you know, these companies are getting more productive. It's a good thing, actually, that we're displacing all these workers and there's going to be a spike in unemployment and young kids coming out of college are not gonna have jobs to go to. That's how he's framing it. That's how they're thinking about it. And that's how these companies are thinking about it too, which is why they all go out and brag as much as possible about all the layoffs that they're doing.
- [10:29]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, you know, to think it back, actually, if you even roll the tape of our inauguration coverage, what we said is if you roll back, you may think that the most significant thing that happened in the Trump administration was AI. You know, considering all those tech CEOs, which we literally said on the day he was inaugurated with that picture, AI regulation. And all of that has also just been a morass. You know, you're talking about AI. I did a few monologues about it at the time. Unfortunately, the Biden rules, in my opinion, would have basically just crystallized too big to fail. With a lot of the OpenAI and others at that time, there was a little bit more of a hope for an open source direction. The Trump administration has abandoned even the bidenist administration's effective commitment to too big to fail and to regulation. Because what they've done, look, they need the AI companies to continue to investing in our economy. If they do stop building these data centers, we are in an official recession. Now we're going to get to some data that already shows some recessionary impact, but the Issue is the stock market and GDP is entirely reliant on these AI gains as part of the reason they're letting them let fly because they're like, look, without this we're screwed. I mean, you wanna talk about tariffs and all this other stuff, the discussion is totally different without a lot of these AI companies. And in general you're actually seeing recession and inflation problems that are bubbling up everywhere. Consumers are more miserable than ever before. Literally rock bottom sentiment. And of course the same type of Biden administration stuff trying to tell consumers that they're wrong. Like they're not wrong, they're empirically correct when it comes to grocery prices, housing, basic cost of living, health insurance, all the stuff that we cover here on a day to day basis. And the administration is doing the same thing, trying to blame other people. In fact, frankly, they're just doing it in an even dumber and more low IQ way. Here was Scott Bessen for his explanation on beef. Maria the beef market is a very specialized market. It goes in long cycles. And this is the perfect storm again, something we inherited. And there's also, because of the mass immigration, a disease that had been, we'd been rid of in North America made its way up through South America. You know, as these migrants, they brought some of their cattle with them. So part of the problem is we've had to shut the border to Mexican beef because of this disease called the screwworm. So we're not going to let that get into our supply chain. So yeah, the explanation is that some of these people have brought the cows with them and that that's the disease that is. Well, you know, I checked, by the way, I did check on that. What he's alleging is something called bovine spongiform encephalopathy. But from what we see on the CDC website and others, it is not necessarily because people are bringing cattle over the border with them. But regardless, you know, actually just heard from somebody yesterday and others like beef prices in terms of sticker shock at the grocery store are ones where people are paying a lot of attention. But I increasingly buy the housing theory of everything. And when you buy that and you look at the data, it's just a disaster. Not only in terms of home prices and rates, but. Put this next one, please, up on the screen. New foreclosures have now jumped some 20% in October, a sign of more distress in the housing market. Foreclosure starts, that's the initial phase of the process. Rose 6% for the month and we're 20% higher than the year before completed foreclosures, the final phase are up 32% year over year. Florida, South Carolina and Illinois leading the state in Florida in foreclosures. They say that some 36,000 U.S. properties with some type of foreclosure in October, such as default notices and others, that's 20% higher than the year prior. I mean there's a lot of potential reasons for that. Usually it's just that people's household balance sheet and debt, which we've also been covering here now for years, it does eventually catch up if you're unable to make those mortgage payments. Also potentially the government shutdown, who knows how many of them were workers in others who are already behind on their bills and just got a final, final screw turning there. So we don't know exactly what the reason is. But you know, if you lived through 07, you don't want to be seeing headlines like this. You just don't want to see it, period. Right. You want people to have enough money that they're at the very least they can make their kind of monthly bills. And right now with inflation at the grocery store, with housing, with rates and others, it just feels more unattainable than ever before, especially. And it's not about feeling. You can look at credit card balances, wages flat for over the last couple of years and you can say it's pretty obvious where things are right now.
- [15:10]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I just saw this from CNBC as well. It's a corollary to what you're saying about home foreclosures. Home Depot is cutting their earnings outlook as Home Improvement demand falls short of expectations. Apparently they missed their third quarter earning estimates. That's their third straight miss. They cut their full year profit outlook. The company said slow consumer spending and a weaker housing market have made Home Improvement demand worse than it expected. So you can see indications of this everywhere.
- [15:35]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, you can see it in that data. And then also because AI is the single bet, then you also start to have to pay attention to some of these people who are, you know, exiting their position. There was a huge one news yesterday showed. Let's put this up here on the screen. A4 Peter Thiel's hedge fund has now dumped his entire Nvidia stock and has cut back even on the Tesla position. I mean it's one of those where people obviously are trading and all of that all the time. But in general when you look at the people who are exiting and now starting to call the top, let's say on Nvidia you had Michael Burry, the famed Big Short investor. Again, it's always the caveat. He has called many since the Big Short and he was incorrect. But he is staking out a big position against an Nvidia and Palantir. But here what you see is that they sold some 537,000 shares in Nvidia. The stake would have been worth about $100 million as of the company's close price on September 30th. This teal selloff, coupled with SoftBank's sell off of its own Nvidia holdings last week, has fueled Wall Street's angst that the frenzy driving these stores may have peaked, putting at risk the trillions of dollars that are committing to AI advancement. Investors and analysts still looking to the third quarter results that were reported tomorrow to dispel worries of a bubble. At the same time, this I actually found kind of fascinating in a myriad ways. Put a five here on the screen. So the founder of Klarna, he's the Swedish billionaire. Now if you don't know what Klarna is, it's one of those buy now, pay later apps. So a guy who became a billionaire by founding a company which has basically saddled people with hundreds of billions of dollars in buy now, pay later debt. So he's, you could call him a debt billionaire. I think that's too fair. Now says I'm nervous about all of this AI debt spending. Seems to me he's an expert in debt that just me personally like the guy who literally created a novel way of debt in the 2000s, which that takes skill. I wouldn't say it's moral or anything but takes skill certainly to try and extract more money out of the consumer economy in the 2020s. This guy says I'm nervous about the trillions of dollars of spending on AI. He says the tech industry is committing too much money to huge computing infrastructure. He is a shareholder in OpenAI Perplexity Xai syrup through his family office. He told the Financial Times that huge sums being poured making nervous I think OpenAI can be very successful at a company but at the same time I'm very nervous about the size of these investments in data centers. That's a particular thing that I am concerned about. He himself calls himself an AI evangelist and he says an AI chatbot already handles 2/3 of his customers services inquiries over at Klarna. Now what he was pointing to though, and I would keep hammering this home on the show OpenAI and perplexity and all these places, they make money. No one's saying they don't make any money. They actually make a lot of money. But they have so much out the door that in terms of commitments that OpenAI itself, its current projected loss in 2028 is 78 billion. $78 billion of losses just in 2020 and a trillion dollars in spending commitments just for that one company. That doesn't even factor in Xai perplex all of these other data center commitments. So if you have even a marginal crawl back to reality, that is a crash for our economy and for our gdp, that that's the problem. And I mean, look, enough people are saying it at this point, I don't even really think you could call it a black swan event. It's one of the more predictable things. Their obvious business cycle is one of those things they teach you in like econ101 and everyone's just kind of on pins and needles waiting for it to happen. But Wall Street's irrational exuberance also, it doesn't seem to be fading. There's still billions of dollars being poured into this. So really nobody knows. Like, you could be, you know, you could either be a person who is, you know, crying wolf or something like that. Like nobody is exactly clear and nobody wants to miss out on the gains. But the richest, some of the richest fund managers in the world, they're taking profit, they're selling, and they're saying, hey, that's enough. We're gonna take the cash for what it is. That makes me very nervous.
- [19:52]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether.
- [19:54]
Saagar Enjeti
I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [20:01]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [20:06]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [20:21]
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- [21:23]
Krystal Ball
A lot of the logic of it is people don't want to be left on the sidelines because think of what has been advertised as the end state of AI is one of these companies is going to reach AGI and that's going to change everything. And the, you know, the company and the founders, the CEO, the executives, whoever's in charge at that time that are, you know, in charge of that company when they achieve AGI, not only are they going to become tremendously wealthy, they're also going to become tremendously powerful. Like tremendously powerful in a way that has never, we've never seen before in the history of the planet type of powerful if the promise lives up to what they're holding out. So, yeah, these guys who are megalomaniacs want to make sure that they are have a stake in the winning team when that all comes to pass. Now it's possible it never does come to pass. Our guest today will say, you know, he thinks it is, he believes that they are going to get to that point, but it's possible they never do get to that point, that it stays sort of in the realm of what it is now, which is still causing a lot of havoc and displacement and a lot of significant consequences at quiet time in the labor market, as Kevin Hassett put it. But it's possible, you know, that's the sort of thing like we could as a society sort of metabolize and deal with, with you know, significant pain, but we could deal with over time. They don't want to be left out of the big seismic revolution that they think is possible here with AI. So that's why, even as everybody knows that this is a bubble in some sense, but why the money is going to continue to pour in is because of that dynamic. The last piece we have here is, you know, getting back to the nuts and bolts of people's lives. And obviously the AI data center build out has a huge impact on that as well. Republicans increasingly blamed for poor economic conditions. We can put a six up on the screen. This is an area where Republicans traditionally have an advantage on the economy. Trump Specifically has had a major advantage on the economy that's been his consistent strength up until this term. And now according to this NRCC pollster. So this is a Republican pollster for the first time in two years. Voters whose top priorities, inflation and the economy, now prefer a generic Democrat for Congress by 13 points over a Republican. And I'm not sure if it was by this pollster or a separate one they pulled specifically on. Okay, who do you blame for health care price increases? Overwhelmingly, people said the gop. Who do you blame for electric bill increases? Overwhelmingly, people said the gop. So if you wanna know why the election was so incredibly lopsided this year and why, you know, I think Republicans are headed for yet another significant reckoning in the midterm elections, you'd be hard pressed to find a better explanation than this one.
- [24:04]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, no, I mean the economy. Look, people always blame the party in power. That's why Biden was blamed for four years. And as I said four years ago, almost to the day, you have to be appear as if you're doing something about it, as if you care about it. And instead, you know, you're blocked. That's why the Epstein thing is important, because you're blocking that while also seemingly not doing much for me and obsessing over your own personal quest to get the Nobel Peace Prize because you've ended 90 wars now or whatever at this point, right, The Democratic Republic of the country. Everyone is celebrating, of course, the end of potential end or whatever of that conflict. But that stuff, you know, the narcissism and all of that, people can deal with a lot as long as thing or economy is doing well. The classic bumper sticker of the Trump era or the Biden era was. Could use some mean tweets right now as long as the gas was $2. And just like. Well, the whole point beyond that is I don't care about the personal conduct or whatever as long as things are going well in my life. And it's like, well, if things aren't going well in your life, well, then that stuff actually all really does start to matter. That seems to be the overall endpoint for a lot of this. And look, I don't know, I mean, you know, you don't want to read too much into a single day movements, but there's just been like slow kind of movements in the S&P 500. There was one yesterday, there was a drop. Futures are down again this morning. We're not. You know, things can change literally on a dime here, but Federal Reserve doesn't look like it's going to step in and do anything drastic anytime soon. Right. So things generally seem to be in stasis for now and stasis is trending in a down direction. If you look at house balance sheet housing and more, nobody is planning anything radically to save you. In fact, they're probably planning something radical in the opposite direction, which I'll get to in property tax bit like, if anything, the people who are at the top in the status quo are doing everything they possibly can to preserve said status quo. And in a way, I think they're, they are girding themselves for a potential crash to insulate them from any potential chaos and make it so that the younger people and the new generation will not only bear the entire brunt, but will be the ones who are totally screwed while they're completely safe.
- [26:16]
Krystal Ball
I mean, it's wor. When you think about the AI aspect, it's much worse than the status quo because they're actively planning and celebrating feeding you to the wolves. I mean, that's what Kevin Hassett is saying. It's like, oh, it's great that these, they don't have to hire these kids on a college anymore. That's, that's great. It's improved productivity. That is their goal. Like, their goal is to make it so that you are irrelevant. Your labor is relevant. Like, forget about cheap labor. They want no labor. They want to hand as much off to the robots as they possibly can. That's their goal. That's the stated goal of all of these tech executives. That's when you ask yourself the question, okay, these trillion dollar spend that OpenAI has planned and these other companies somewhere similar ballpark figures as well, how are they going to make that money? It's not going to come from you and me signing up for a ChatGPT subscription. No, it's going to come from giant companies who are willing to pay large sums of money to get rid of you, to get rid of your labor. That is what they're betting on and that's what this administration has gone whole hog behind. This is a central driving force, if not the driving force of this administration. That's why these guys gave Trump so much money. That's why they did so much for him for his election. You know, they're also sort of directly involved in the mass amount of wealth that he's accumulated through his crypto scam. Like this is the play. And so, you know, when Kevin has it comes out and is openly celebrating and justifying significant layoffs and Lack of hiring because of AI development. Everyone needs to pay attention to what their actual goals are and the way that they are using policy and executive orders and funding and financing and relationships to build this whole thing out. And thank you for the flag about that. They're trying to do this thing again of states can't regulate AI, which is absolutely insane. And everybody needs to be screaming the rooftops about this.
- [28:07]
Saagar Enjeti
That's why I'm not. I'm not exactly sold on the master plan, because I don't think it is. I genuinely think it is a absolute alliance of convenience and of stupidity. Republicans are dumb and they like money. Right. And they want job creators or whatever. Now, Elon and all the rest of these people, no question. Okay? Of course they're sucking up to Trump to try and get as much out of it. A lot of it is to try off, hold off regulation and basically to convince them that they're the single driving engine of the economy. And I think that is true. It also aligns with their overall posture towards deregulation itself, because that's something, like, built into the Republican psyche. What they mostly want is to be left alone. I think that's bad. I mean, especially Sam Altman and Mark Zuckerberg and Dario, I mean, Dario, he just goes on TV and he's like, none of you are gonna be working in five years. And everyone's just supposed to accept that as they're like, oh, okay, got it. I mean, they genuinely act as if they're going to face no consequences. And so, yeah, I mean, I just.
- [29:05]
Krystal Ball
To be clear, I don't think Trump gives a shit about any of it at all. Like, he cares about, oh, the stock market keeps going down.
- [29:12]
Saagar Enjeti
Exactly.
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Krystal Ball
That's what I'm saying. You know, I think he wanted to stay out of prison and get back in the White House.
- [29:17]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [29:17]
Krystal Ball
And these guys were willing to throw tons of cash at him. And he's checked out of this administration, handed off significant chunks of it to other aides, whether it's, you know, Stephen Miller, Marco Rubio, or whoever. And so, yeah, I'm not saying, like, that he's a devoted AI acolyte. I don't think he gives a shit. But I think he's turned this whole part of his administration over to these tech oligarchs and basically sold his presidency, this aspect of his presidency to them. And they're gonna get whatever they want from him. I mean, the H1B conversation, like, fits in that. Right. And you. And you flagged at the time when he went on the all in podcast during the campaign and was like, I'm gonna staple the. The visa.
- [29:56]
Saagar Enjeti
Visa to the diploma.
- [29:57]
Krystal Ball
To the diploma. And you were like, what? How does this fit with the other things that he said? Now listen, you guys. You know I'm pro immigrant. I am also pro major reform of the H1B program, which is genuinely exploitative and undercuts. Does undercut native tech workers as well. So for him to come out now and be like, I want 600,000 Chinese students in our universities and he's still prosper and I'm still pro H1B, ask yourself the question, why are these two things so dissonant from the other things that he said on the campaign trail? And it's because it's what these tech oligarchs want. He's gonna do whatever it is that they want. He sold this part of his presidency to him, to them, to me, that's just, like, abundantly clear. And those answers to Laura Ingraham are just one example, one small but significant example of the way that he has outsourced this whole part of his presidency which is unbelievably important to literally all of us. To the worst people in the world.
- [30:55]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, well, they seem uncowed and they definitely seem to have a lot of power, which is part of the problem.
- [31:03]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [31:07]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [31:13]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [31:17]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News, reporting for America.
- [31:32]
Advertiser Voice
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- [32:01]
Podcast Host/Advertiser
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- [32:34]
Saagar Enjeti
Speaking of worst people in the world, what's going on with Larry Summers?
- [32:37]
Krystal Ball
So Larry Summers, former Treasury secretary, who has been basically the scene of every great to economic crime in our recent past, whether it's the bank balance, whether it's nafta, you could go on and on with him, continues to have tons of influence for unknowable reasons within the Democratic Party and was part of this center for American Progress push to create their own. You know, they were like, oh, the Republicans did Project 2025, we're gonna do Project 2029. So he was very influential, part of this development within center for American Progress of the economic plan of Project 2029, which is terrible. And it's part of the centrists and the corporatists trying to keep a hold on the Democratic Party even as the base revolts against them. And Zoran Mamdani is the most popular figure in the Democratic Party. So lo and behold, this isn't a big surprise. We knew Larry Summers had a significant relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, which he had apologized for in the past. But this man is all over the Epstein emails that just came out. One of the central characters, Trump, is mentioned a lot more, but Larry Summers is mentioned a lot and we have direct emails, unlike with Trump, we have direct emails between Larry Summers and Jeffrey Epstein that come out of this. And they, I'll show you some of them. They're pretty wild. The sort he was getting like relationship advice to chase after some lady while he's married, by the way, from Jeffrey freaking Epstein and was messaging with him right up until he is put in literal prison. So very deep relationship with him. Okay, so after all of this came out, there's a bunch of public pressure and he is now, as of yesterday afternoon or evening, could be one up on the screen. He's now announced that he is going to step back from all public commitments in light of those messages that were revealed with Epstein saying he is deeply ashamed and hopes to, quote, rebuild trust and repair relationships. He will, however, continue teaching at Harvard. Let's put the next piece up on the screen. American Prospect has been doing some fantastic reporting here. I have to think that some of the pressure that came from Daniel Boguslaw here at American Prospect and others. Ryan also highlighting his emails and also some Chinese government official connections. I'll get to that in a moment. But they talk here about the way he was guiding this project at the center for American Progress. So according to people with knowledge of the arrangement, one of the leads on the economic policy plank for the Project 2029 project is Harvard professor and former treasury secretary Larry Summers, who has now been exposed is regularly exchanging emails about his personal life with notorious sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. Officially, Summers has the title of distinguished senior fellow at cap. All three sources confirm CAP is compiling a policy blueprint in the event of a Democratic presidential victory in the next election. Summers had taken a leadership role in advising the project's economic policy arm. Two, the sources said they also said Summers was the final sign off on a CAP housing policy paper set to be released next week. And they have. CAP has now confirmed that as part of his announcement that he will be stepping back saga from public commitments. He is also stepping back, will no longer be involved with center for American Progress and presumably this policy project.
- [35:48]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, but I think what's important to note about Summers is first of all, you know, this whole. I'm deeply ashamed. It's like, dude, you're really deeply ashamed because he got caught, okay? You know, and in terms of his. Look, you could already judged him on his policy record in the Clinton White House or anywhere else as the Trump admin or as the Harvard University president. Like, he clearly had a long relationship there with Epstein. But what's really disgusting is the way, look, remember, this is all post sex offender conviction number one. Number two, in terms of Larry, his own wife is apparently sending Epstein recommendations for books, including Lolita. All right? Which if you'll remember, he actually was found with a first edition copy copy of Lolita, which is, I mean, disgusting. Yeah. If you don't know what it is, Google it. Okay? And it's one of those where inside of this, you know, piece about his lecherous behavior and luring this woman and kind of looking to Epstein as like this wingman. Literally. That's the way that they describe it. You're like, this is so repulsive. And I saw a very interesting piece in the wrap, actually, where a columnist was coming to grip with the fact she was like, you know, I've long been an insider, and every Thanksgiving I am confronted with a relative who believes that the world is run by a global pedophile elite. And she's like, now it's painful to admit that they were cracking. I'm like, yeah, it's true. I mean, Look, I'm a cynical guy. I've lived here for a long time. You hear stories, you know about things and all of that. Even not like, when you really read the birthday book, it's shocking. Like, it's shocking to see some of the world's richest, most powerful men, including our current president, past presidents and others. But, oh, Jeffrey, I mean, Trump, wonderful secret. The check thing about the girlfriend, the.
- [37:44]
Krystal Ball
Drawings, the intentionally childlike, the childlike that probably freaked me out more than anything.
- [37:49]
Saagar Enjeti
And remember that I still haven't been able to track that guy down. I've been looking for him. The guy with the child drawing where it looked like literally some eyes wide, shuttle pianist type thing. Like, it's. I. I'm telling you, I tried for days to actually find the guy who drew that. I think he lives in Spain, but, you know, completely unable to find. The fact that he hasn't come out at this point is kind of weird, in my opinion. He was a small child at the time that that drawing was done. You'll recall, you know, some of the emails that I was reading recently, Epstein replied to somebody and was like, please send a picture of you and your child always puts a smile on my face. Weird. Sorry. Weird. All right. Weird. It's one of those where you look at their own, like, winking, nodding behavior. Not to mention, I mean, remember the birthday book? They literally were making rape jokes in there. They're like rape fantasies about wearing masks while they're holding guns and knives, about going out and, like, just finding someone to violently rape them. Like, this is the stuff they joked about. So, like, if you're joking about that, what's actually happening, I mean, behind the scenes and from a very, very young age. So the fact is, is Larry Summers was a part of that. And what we always try to say is like, yeah, the whole point of the Epstein story is it ain't just Summers. It's Leon Black, it's Les Wexner, it's Trump, it's Bill Clinton, it's Bill Gates, it's the Nobel Peace Prize people. It's a bunch of Israeli former prime ministers.
- [39:15]
Krystal Ball
It's.
- [39:17]
Saagar Enjeti
No, no, no, no. It's four that he has known connections to. Now, in terms of potential lecherous behavior, you're right. But in terms of having direct connection to, we have at least some mentions of four separate Israeli prime ministers that he's had a connection to. Mongolia's president, Cote d', Ivoire, the daughter there of the leader. I mean, this is. Paints a picture which is. I mean, it's Eyes Wide Shut. Literally, like it is a actual representation of a look at the end of the day, what do people always say? Like, absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so we already know that people who are filthy rich live a very different life from all of us. In fact, just yesterday, I'm one of those suckers for one of those Wall Street Journal stories which is like how the ultra rich are living in luxury. And it's like these super rich Miami real estate developers just invite a Wall Street Journal reporter along with them to brag about their private dinner clubs and their jet setting lifestyle. And I was like, wow. People not only have no shame, but it's one of those where you're like openly bragging about how the richer that you are, how pleasant it is to get away from as many peasants as possible. I mean, they say this shit out in the open. I mean, they say it in a more polite way. Obviously. It's like, oh well, real luxury is not. Whatever. My point is just like they, everybody's. It's almost just like out in the open open now at that point. And I mean, that's why I think the Epstein story matters. It's because it just shows that they transcend a level above where not even normal, but like normal ish people are. And they act with a totally different set of rules. And that set of rules corrupts at the soul level, at the financial level, at the government level. And those are the people broadly who are in charge of, of the world's riches and of the world's governments. I think we should all grapple with that.
- [41:07]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, I think having a bunch of billionaires is inconsistent with democracy. I think it does, like you said, corrupt you on like a deep foundational level where, yeah, you just don't see yourself as part of this sea of humanity. And there's also this level of decadence and boredom that seems to come where it's just like, you know, you're just looking for more and more elaborate displays of like wealth or opulence or you know, decadence in other ways. With Larry Summers in particular, I really want people to, I don't know if people how much you know about this man, but he's sort of the ultimate Washington, like serious thinker, you know, very highly esteemed. Harvard obviously has advised multiple presidents. He's always consulted to Trump, still would, you know, I mean, Biden still was talking to him. Obviously, even now, even before these emails came out, we knew about this relationship with Epstein. But center for American Progress is still bringing him in for their economic policy plank. Like, he's seen as the ultimate, like, serious economic thinker, especially in Democratic circles. And so, you know, to have these emails revealed which are disgusting. Let's put the next Harvard Crimson tear sheet up on the screen which details some of them. So a somersault clandestine relationship with woman he called a mentee. Epstein was his quote. Wingman and Sager used that terminology. Like, that's how they referred to it, right? That's not our characterization. That was how they referred to this relationship. And so I'll read you a little bit of this. They say in a sequence of texts and emails between November 2018 and July 5, 2019. What happens in July of 2019? Sagar. Yeah, Epstein goes to prison. So he's emailing this man right up until he goes to prison. Summers turned to Epstein for advice on his pursuit of this woman, who he described as a mentee. Epstein was quick to chime in with assurances and suggestions, describing himself in one November 2018 message as Summers. Wingman then explains how they became public. Summer's correspondence with Epstein, a financier who pled guilty to soliciting prostitution from a minor in 2008, ends just one day before Epstein was arrested on new sex trafficking charges. Together, the messages show Summers placing extraordinary degree of trust in Epstein, asking him for help in navigating a relationship that blurred the boundaries of his professional and personal lives. Again, by the way, Larry Summers married during this entire time. Mary Summers, who was married since 2005, told Epstein he thought the woman was reluctant to leave him because she valued his professional connections. Epstein told him in one June 2019 text, she is doomed to be with you think for now I'm going nowhere with her except economics mentor. Summers wrote. I think I'm right now in the scene very warmly in Rear View mirror category. She must be very confused or maybe wants to cut me off, but wants professional connection a lot and so holds to it. Summers wrote in a March 2019 exchange, explaining why he believed she continued to engage with him despite tensions. Which, listen, is also disgusting that he knows she doesn't really want to be with him romantically, but he has this powerful position and sort of hold on her. So he's using that to maintain the sexual relationship, even though what she really wants is actually just the mentee relationship is disgusting. Like, that's what he's acknowledging in these emails to Epstein is like, that's the hold that he has on her, and that's what he's gonna exploit to keep.
- [44:36]
Saagar Enjeti
Her close it's like a. I mean it's like a parody of me too. You know, it's one of those where it's like the, you bring together power, the power dynamic. Yeah, yeah, right. I mean, God, like. And look, you know, it was a critic and stuff of me too. But like some of these people are real. Like some of these creeps started for a reason. I mean, I have no other way really to describe it. Put some of the emails, let's go to B4 just to show everybody. Let's put it up here on the screen again. March of 2019. He says, we talked on the phone then I can't talk later. Didn't think I can talk tomorrow. I said, what are you up to? She said, I'm busy. I said, awfully coy you are. Then I said, did you really rearrange the weekend we were going to be together because guy number three was coming? She said no, his schedule changed after we changed our plans. I said, okay, call me when you feel like a tone was not of good feeling. I didn't want to be in a gift giving competition while being friends without benefits. This is Larry in March 2019. How old is he at this point? Like 60 something. Epstein, she's smart. Making you pay for past errors. Ignore the daddy, I'm going to go out with motorcycle. You reacted well. Annoyed shows caring. No whining showed strength. I mean, yeah, like this is literally like, I don't know, it's like teenage behavior, which weird even at that point. But these are 60 year old men who are ultra rich who are also in Larry Summers case, literally married. I mean, I have no idea how he can ever show his face in public ever again. Let's go to the next one, shall we? In terms of, of the emails, same thing, you know, this was from Larry Summers to this woman who he was wooing. He said, I wanted to show how grateful I am and have been for your support. Also for the support of my father's work. This is what she's saying. I don't say these things often but I hope it implies, you know, it's one of those where he is exploiting this relationship and his own past relationship with her father to like try to woo this girl, I mean, or this woman. Right. At the time I just think it's really.
- [46:30]
Krystal Ball
So this is the woman that it appears the messages were about. And so he had this mentee relationship with her. But in addition her dad is a CCP official. So you know, I mean there's just all sorts of Layers of morally professionally inappropriate. I mean, it's gross. And then the fact that this man is still was up until this moment, so trusted by so many people in power here in D.C. is extraordinary. Up on the screen here from Zed Jelani. This was the original. He's deeply ashamed after new Epstein emails. And we'll pause public engagement. There you go. That's the tale of Larry Summers here. But he's just emblematic of so many. And the fact that Epstein had these close relationships with people like him who are held in such high esteem by so many elites and look to for guidance and wisdom and serious person, blah, blah, blah, is part of how he was able to maintain all of his, you know, his wealth and his connections and his banking relationships. This is one piece because he would. People would. He would use the fact that like, oh well, Larry Summers trust me. Well, Bill Gates trusts me. Well, Elon Musk trusts me. So why wouldn't you? And the fact that they all had this cone of silence around it is how it was perpetuated for so, so long.
- [47:55]
Saagar Enjeti
And they had no moral standards. I mean, again, even if somebody was like, hey man, so and so, he's a good guy. I'm like, yeah, maybe. And then you do a Google search and you see conviction for. I'm like, yeah, I'm good. You know, it's like it'd be one of those where I'd be like, do you know about this? And if they're like, oh yeah, but you know, he said she actually was, you know, she looked 18 or something. I'd be like, oh, bro, like this is not happening.
- [48:19]
Krystal Ball
And even if so, yeah, they led to downplay. Alan Dershowitz still out there downplaying it. Like, oh, you know, the girl was, she was 17. It's just one. They were so harsh on him, blah, blah, blah. But these emails again, leading up until literally he's arrested day before he's arrested and put in prison. This was after Julie K. Brown.
- [48:40]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, I know.
- [48:41]
Krystal Ball
Had done all of her reporting for the Miami Herald about how no, there were dozens of girls were talking down to what the youngest was like 13. So he got this slap on the wrist, totally rigged and inappropriate, literally illegal, sweetheart deal. All of that is in the public domain. So even if Larry Summers wanted to be tricked by Epstein's, you know, oh, well, it was just, you know, I hired a prostitute once and I didn't know that she wasn't whatever, which is still disgusting. Right? But even if you wanted to buy that at this point in time, it's all out there. I mean, we have learned more over the years, but the general shape and the web of how to disgusting this was was out in the public record. And he was still seeking relationship advice for his affair from this man. Yeah, just grotesque.
- [49:30]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah. Again, I mean, they live in a different world than the rest of us. I guess. I don't really have another word for it.
- [49:39]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [49:43]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [49:48]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [49:52]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [50:08]
Advertiser Voice
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- [50:37]
Podcast Host/Advertiser
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- [51:10]
Krystal Ball
So we have a bunch of updates for you with regard to Trump's ICE deployments across the country, but wanted to start actually with a polling update. Of course, Trump and the Republicans. Republicans took a lot of pride in the gains that they made with Latino voters, particularly in this election cycle. Have really pinned a lot, actually staked a lot on this realignment of working class Latino voters towards Republicans. Let's check in on how that's going.
- [51:31]
Poll Analyst/Reporter
Latinos on Trump and immigration. You know, back a year ago, what did we see on the issue of immigration? Latino voters trusted Kamala Harris more than Donald Trump, but by just two points. One, two. Look now at Donald Trump's net approval rate of on immigration among Latinos, he is 38 points underwater. That is a 36 point shift essentially from where we were a year ago on immigration. Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are basically tied on the issue of immigration. And now on the issue of immigration, Latinos despise, hate Donald Trump. Trump's not approval rating among Latinos in early February, again, he was just two points underwater. Look at where he is now, late October, minus 34 points. 34 points underwater. A shift of 32 points over the course of this year. I should point out, this is the CBS News you got Paul, but I was looking at the averager polls. I was looking at our own poll, very similar shift. 2025, 30 point shifts on the net approval rating away from Donald Trump among Latinos overall. What did we learn from the 2025 elections? I took the highest Latino percentage area in both New Jersey and Virginia. New Jersey, it was Union City. Look at this. 2024 president, 2025 governor shift. There was a 52. I'm laughing because you never see any numbers like this. A 52 point shift towards Mikey Sheryl from how Kamala Harris did on the margin. Mikey Sheryl ran away with this. Kamala Harris did win that vote, but by a small margin. Mikey Sheryl did 52 points better. How about in Virginia, Manassas park, look at that. A 22 point shift towards Abigail Spamberger from how Kamala Harris did.
- [53:08]
Krystal Ball
Did.
- [53:08]
Poll Analyst/Reporter
Back in 2024, we saw huge Latino shifts in both New Jersey and Virginia.
- [53:14]
Krystal Ball
And I think, Sagar, that Latinos are one of the biggest swing blocks in America. You know, Democrats really took for granted that, you know, Latino support and also had this very caricature, ish view of what they wanted in terms of, you know, super serving a soft on immigration message and that that would be enough to hold them in the coalition forever. And you and I have been tracking, you know, especially in 2020, you saw these significant shifts down in Texas and Rio Grande Valley. Then you saw in 2024 even more shifts towards Trump. And then I think Republicans have somewhat made the mistake of just assuming that like, oh, now they're in our coalition and that's it and nothing is gonna change.
- [53:48]
Saagar Enjeti
That's especially true in Texas where a lot of the gerrymandering relies on the Latino swing. Yes, that's the biggest mistake. I mean, look, no constituency should be taken for granted. I do also think it's caricature ish to say that it's only about immigration. One of the things that we always said is, yeah, it Turns out Latinos are like everybody else. And in terms of we care about the economy. Actually, we're not all the same. Actually, a Puerto Rican in New York is not the Same as a 5th generation Mexican ish guy in South Texas. Turns out, yes, we may understand each other's language. We're totally different. We have totally wants, dreams, whatever. Our entire daily life is distinctly different than also a Cuban or Paraguayan in South Florida and then also a Chicano in Los Angeles. We're all the same. Okay, actually, in that we're all different. That's it. And mostly we're just claiming that we're all different. Yeah, we are. It's a tautology, but it's true. It's one of those where, yes, we are in a massive country. We all individually live in our areas where our wants, needs can be like, ish, the same, but the circumstances of our life are very different. And so we generally vote in terms of our own interests. And this is why. Remember the Tony Hinchcliffe thing? They're like, oh, Puerto Ricans, they're not gonna take that. It's like, yeah, actually they voted overwhelmingly for Trump and especially down in South Florida. And it's like, yeah. Why? Well, because it turns out, like, they're not like little sissies that can't take a joke again, just like everyone else. So in this case, I think they're net on immigration in the same way other people are net negative on immigration. They're like, this feels chaotic. That's what it's about.
- [55:23]
Krystal Ball
I mean, I would say that there may just. Given the racial character of the way the immigration push has been executed with the Kavanaugh stuff, the number of US Citizens who happen to look Latino or have Latino surnames or whatever, who have been stopped, who've been arrested, who haven't been believed, even when they pull out their driver's license. Like, I think it probably does hit a little extra if you're Latino and you see the way that people who look like you and, you know, have similar names, come, have similar ethnic backgrounds are being targeted. Your communities are the ones that are being, you know, most targeted by ice. Like, I do think that, that, that is certainly a significant factor here as well. But in terms of the latest. So Bavino's crew of customs and Border Patrol, which are the. We talk about ICE as kind of a catch all. CBP is actually the most aggressive. And Bavino has been. He's the one who did the big apartment raid in Chicago. He's been sort of the most wild and has the most militarized sort of forces behind him. He also in Chicago and I think this is part probably of why they're leaving the city of Chicago at this point. There were a bunch of court orders that came down to really constrain their use of force. In particular their use of tear gas, which had been totally just wild and indiscriminate. We showed you the video here of them like spraying tear gas into a car that was passing by that had a one year old strapped into the seat. American citizens, by the way, one year old strapped into the seat. And they just pepper spray them as they're driving. But so in any case, there have been a bunch of court orders against him. He had to admit in court that he had lied about a number of incidents as well. So they've left Chicago, now they're in Charlotte. We can put C2 up on the screen. This is from a day ago. I don't know what the Update is, but US Border Patrol arrests 81 on first day of Charlotte immigration crackdown. We've seen backlash in the community there. There's videos, similar videos of Chicago coming out of Charlotte. And apparently the idea is to stay there for a relatively short period before heading down to New Orleans. We also have some numbers here about, okay, so, you know, did they get the bad guys in Chicago? Was it all worth it? All the, you know, Blackhawk helicopters, zip tying children, pepper spraying near Halloween parades, shooting an American citizen who was an activist five times. Was this all worth it? Put C3 up on the screen. 2.6%. 16 people on the list of 614 that had to be provided to the court in one of these cases, 2.6% of them had any criminal history at all. I mean, that is so pathetic. They said, I think in this article or one of the other ones that I read about this, that, you know, normal Chicago PD would in a single weekend come into contact and have dealings with more than 16 people with criminal records. So when they use all this rhetoric about the worst of the worst and you know, these are the worst people on the planet, this is what we're actually talking about here. Barely any of these people had criminal histories. In the big apartment raid that they broadcast on social media they were so proud of, they put out all this propaganda about used to Blackhawk military helicopters swoop in, knock down doors, drag out children in the middle of the night, American citizens, all the rest. Guess how many people they ended up charging from that? 0. 0. Again, we were told this building was infested With Trender, Trender Rug had taken over this building. It was lawless gang violence. I'm not gonna say that there weren't any sort of crimes being committed in the building because people complained about, you know, drug use and this sorts of thing that was going on. You had a total slumlord who owns the building, who's probably the one who, by the way, who called in ICE what they were able to actually charge them 0 people out of this whole thing. So it's very important for people to understand the way that they will routinely lie and misrepresent what they're doing. And there was also Sagar, just a big New York Times piece backing up other reporting as well. That because DHS has shifted their priorities, the actual investigations into sex trafficking or human trafficking or drug dealing, those sorts of things have fallen by the wayside. So that they can pick up Jose at the Home Depot.
- [59:36]
Saagar Enjeti
Steph. I mean, administration doesn't have credibility on this. They haven't had credibility since secot. In my opinion. Yeah, that's painful for me to say. All right. I mean, you know, I like, I want deportation. I want law and order. I still think, you know, broadly, I think criminals and all that should be prioritized, deported. And I mean, yes, it's great. I know the left is now a re found love of deporting criminals and illegals. Not they ever actually wanted to under the Biden administration. But okay, you know, cool, cool that we're now accepting that. It's very frustrating, to be honest, because you're watching the entire credibility of the ideas behind mass deportation or deportation itself be eroded. This is like an abolished ICE activist dream, to be honest. Like, you know, you have more political credibility than ever before. And the case of immigration restriction will probably be damaged now for generations to come. I think that's very damaging. And I do blame the administration because they're the people who ultimately have to enact this policy. And I think that they've cartoonishly behaved and they're creating more chaos. And so, yeah, I mean, I've just resigned. I'm like, look, I think it's over. Like, I think we've got three and a half years. They'll clownishly, you know, continue this type. And then, you know, do we have the cernovich tweet?
- [60:49]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. C5.
- [60:50]
Saagar Enjeti
Can we put C5 up here on the screen? This has been sticking in my head only. I mean, I've also been saying it, but what he said. Mike is a prominent conservative activist. He says during a recent visit in D.C. the talk of everyone was how overt the corruption was. It's at levels you read about in history books in nearly every department. Lots of do people just think Democrats will never win and they'll all get away with this. And I mean, I think this not just about immigration. I think about this broadly with a lot of the administration. And you can make fun, such a cash grab. You can make fun all you want. There were lots of well meaning people in the election who voted for legitimate immigration concerns. And ultimately, you know, the crime for people who use those, you know, to then not only enrich themselves, but do damage to the cause, it's devastating. I mean, it's one of those where like, look, you know, if you, if you think back for, I don't know, let's say Biden any, you know, if you, if you believed in those types of politics and then you have a bad leader and a bad administration who does tremendous justice, like that's a crimp, you know, like that's criminal. Right. Actually, because it's really a lot of voters and others and we talked yesterday about the whole Fuentes, like racialism thing. I mean, they're doing everything in their power to try and basically like, basically empower this like racialist view of the world basically at this point. And yeah, I mean, it's honestly like, it's really depressing because what it does show you is, is how cartoonish like the behavior here is. And look, I'm not gonna deny there are real people's lives who are also at stake here. I mean, I maintain even if you're, quote, not a criminal and you came here illegally, I still think you should be deported, but good luck making that argument in the future. If people look at Black Hawk helicopters and all this other stuff, they're gonna say, at the end of the day, I'm not willing to make that trade off. I'll continue to make the case. I still believe it. But if this is the way that it actionally, it's kind of like when people try to defend socialism or whatever and everyone's always like, well, you know, look at, has it ever worked before? Right. If the practical example that anyone in modern memory can have of this, they're gonna be deeply skeptical for generations to come. And I think that, you know, I think my friend Raihan Salaam wrote this years ago about Trump and maybe he was right. He wrote it back in 2015. He's like an OG immigration restrictionist. And he was like, I think Trump will do damage to the cause. Cause for you, I actually ridiculed him at the time. I'm like, well, he's the only one who won. And, you know, now he won again in 2024, but perhaps he's been vindicated in the long run.
- [63:17]
Krystal Ball
Interesting. Speaking of that corruption piece, put C4 up on the screen. This is just like, shit. Like, this is crazy. Kristi Noem, who loves to do these freaking photo shoots and is just an embarrassing person in general. Oh, lo and behold, ProPublica, by the way, has been doing some very good reporting. Firm tied to Kristi Noem secretly got money from $220 million DHS ad contracts. I mean, what do we even need DHS ads for to begin with? You guys want to see what these ads look like, and then I can tell you more about the details of this firm and who all is involved with it. Let's go and play C6. This is one of the ads that this firm was involved with creating. Why do I love these wide open spaces? They remind me of why our forefathers came here. Not just for its beauty, but for the freedom only America provides. I'm Kristi Noem. From the cowboys who tamed the west to the titans who built our cities, to the dreamers who chased the impossible, America has always rewarded vision and grit. Our greatness calls people to us for a chance to prosper, to learn, live how they choose to become part of something special. Anyone who searches for freedom can always find a home here. But that freedom's a precious thing, and we defend it vigorously. You cross the border illegally, we'll find you. Break our laws, we'll punish you. Harm American citizens, there will be consequences. But if you come here the right way, your American dream can be as big as. As these endless guys from President Trump and me. Welcome home. So I had noticed.
- [64:59]
Saagar Enjeti
I'd noticed some of these ads, and I was like, this is a little weird.
- [65:02]
Krystal Ball
Little weird?
- [65:02]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah. Well, because on Fox News in particular, they'd be like, you need to leave. And I was like, how many illegals are watching Fox News? I mean, I'm only watching Fox News because I have to for work.
- [65:11]
Krystal Ball
You really think that some ad of Kristen Elm and a horse is going to change your decision about where? I mean, it's just. It's a total vanity project. She, like probably many others, wants to run for president, I assume. And so this is a way. They flooded the big, beautiful bill, flooded DHS and ice with just insane amounts of cash. And so this is the type of shit that they're doing with it this little ad campaign, which by the way, so again, $220 million. They kept one beneficiary of the nine figure ad deal a secret. According to ProPublica records and interviews show a Republican consulting firm with long standing personal and business ties to Noem and her senior aides at dhs. The company running the Mount Rushmore shoot, called the Strategy Group, does not appear on public documents about the contract. The main recipient listed on the contracts is a mysterious Delaware company which was created days before the deal was finalized. No firm has closer ties to nome's political operation than the Strategy Group. Group played a central role in her 2022 South Dakota gubernatorial campaign. Corey Lewandowski, who is not only her top advisor at dhs, which is the part they put in here, is also her rumored boyfriend, has worked extensively with the firm. And the company's CEO is married to Noam's chief spokesperson, Tricia McLaughlin. So there you go. Strategy Group's ad work is the first known example of money flowing from Gnome's agency to businesses controlled by her allies and friends. And you know, there's, there's this. No secret why they decided to hide this, because it is blatantly and clearly disgustingly corrupt and just total cash grab at every level of this administration. And it's true. I keep thinking about Steve Bannon telling, I don't remember what conference he was at. He was like, if the Democrats get back in power, some of us are going to prison. Now, I don't think Bannon's already been to prison. I'm not aware of him committing any new crimes. So he's not at the top of my list. But like, yes, this level of corrupt dealing, it should be punished. The level of lawlessness, like when crimes are broken. I do think that some of these officials should fear for their freedom after this administration is through, because I can tell you the Democratic base is gonna be looking for a candidate in 2028 who is willing to say Stephen Miller and Kristi Noem should be in jail.
- [67:29]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean, you know, can't say you weren't warned. And yes, if you cartoonishly disregard the law, I mean, in, in Kirsty Noem's case or Stephen Miller, even if my opinion is what's going to happen is Trump on his way out, will do the Hunter Biden thing, the preemptive pardon for any and all, whatever. And so, no, I don't think anybody's going to prison. But whenever it comes to investigations in the interim, what a lot of people don't know is that the government doesn't pay, let's say, for your legal fees, like when you get called before Congress, especially if it's on. On a private matter. And so many officials. This happened in the Clinton administration. This happened in the first Trump administration. You'll remember I said this during Doge. I was like, man, I hope you guys are. Elon will be fine. He's rich. Everybody else, I'm like, you better lawyer up, because when the Dems come calling and the House Oversight Committee with subpoenas, these guys charge like $1,000 an hour, and sometimes they can take 12, 15 hours for transcripts and for interviews. And you need a counsel in the room that entire time or when you're calling before, like, that level. Look, it's. That's what. That's how government has worked now, basically, since the Kenneth Starr affair. Like, every time the opposition party, no matter who it is, is in power, they try to do investigations and subpoena power and all of that. And yes, there's a huge political incentive. So if you're see Kristi Noem, I think she'll probably figure it out. Donors. If you're Trisha McLachlan or, like, one of the junior people, those are the ones where I'm like, I would be very worried if I were you.
- [68:57]
Krystal Ball
Or, you know, some of these ICE guys who are out on the street. Like, just because Steve Miller, Greg Pavina, or whatever told you to do it doesn't mean that you're totally protagon. This actually dovetails into the Venezuela segment we're about to do where some of these military service members who are being tasked with, like, murdering random people in the Caribbean or in the Pacific are seeking outside legal counsel.
- [69:17]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes. Yeah.
- [69:18]
Krystal Ball
Because they are concerned about their own legal liability, and they do not trust the guidance that they're getting within the administration.
- [69:38]
Podcast Host/Advertiser
You know what?
- [69:39]
Saagar Enjeti
A girl's best friend is not diamonds. Her lawyers. From executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a.
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Krystal Ball
Fiery new legal drama.
- [69:47]
Podcast Host/Advertiser
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- [69:49]
Saagar Enjeti
You can't afford to miss.
- [69:52]
Krystal Ball
Make it Ray. Showtime, ladies.
- [69:55]
Podcast Host/Advertiser
Stand up straight, then breeze into that.
- [69:58]
Krystal Ball
Room like a storm no one saw coming.
- [70:02]
Saagar Enjeti
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