11/19/25: Trump Meets MBS, MTG Calls Trump Traitor, Epstein Pursued Rothschild Bank, Obama Official Laments Holocaust Education

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Date: November 19, 2025
Main Topics: Trump Meets MBS, MTG Calls Trump Traitor, Epstein’s Rothschild Bank Ties, Obama Official on Holocaust Education

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on a high-stakes diplomatic meeting between Donald Trump and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) at the White House, the political fallout from a historic House vote to release Jeffrey Epstein-related files, and an examination of shifting social attitudes on Israel, antisemitism, and the impact of Holocaust education. The hosts—Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti—navigate complex global politics (Saudi-US relations, Middle East peace efforts), domestic political drama (Marjorie Taylor Greene vs. Trump), and revelations about elite banking, cyberwarfare, and intelligence circles. They close with a fiery critique of the establishment’s response to evolving narratives about Israel and Gaza.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s White House Summit with MBS and US-Saudi Relations

[02:23–13:00]

• Recap of Visit & Announcements:

  • MBS visited the White House. Trump designated Saudi Arabia as a “major non-NATO ally” and announced a new Strategic Defense Agreement.
    • Trump: “Tonight, I’m pleased to announce that we are taking our military cooperation to even greater heights by formally designating Saudi Arabia as a major non-NATO ally... and signing a historic Strategic Defense Agreement.” (07:55)
  • The move followed similar deals with other Gulf countries in the wake of Israeli military actions.

• Mutual Flattery, Realpolitik, and the Khashoggi Murder:

  • Trump was effusive while fielding questions about MBS, brushing aside questions about the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
  • MBS called the Khashoggi killing “a huge mistake,” downplaying responsibility.
  • Krystal riffs, incredulously, “Did he say that it was a mistake that they carved him into pieces?” (12:28)
  • Trump: “[MBS has] done a phenomenal job. You’re mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial... but he knew nothing about it and we can leave it at that. You don’t have to embarrass our guest by asking a question like that.” (11:32)

• Normalization with Israel & the Abraham Accords:

  • Trump pressed MBS on Saudi normalizing relations with Israel, but Saudi officials reiterated demand for movement on a two-state solution.
  • MBS: “We want peace for the Israelis. We want peace for the Palestinians. We want them to coexist peacefully in the region.” (28:08)

• Tone and Subtext:

  • Saagar notes Trump’s “bullying, alpha dog” style toward MBS—slapping his knee, ribbing him, and putting him on the spot.
    • “It’s a level of friendliness you’d rarely see with any foreign leader, let alone the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.” (29:04)
  • The hosts reflect on the United States’ willingness to “deny, not overlook” egregious acts (Khashoggi murder) for strategic gain, and the normalization of relations with once-toxic actors.
    • Krystal: “In some ways, it’s humiliating, but in other ways, it’s just a blunt way out. It’s like, we’re not going to overlook that he did this. We’re just going to deny it… Don’t embarrass our guest.” (16:31)

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2. House Unanimously Votes to Release Epstein Files (& Political Fallout)

[33:57–45:31]

• Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Press Conference:

  • MTG claims Trump called her a traitor for pushing to release Epstein files; asserts people power drove a rare bipartisan action:
    • MTG: “A traitor is an American that serves foreign countries and themselves. A patriot is an American that serves the United States… This only became possible today because the American people… demanded that this vote happen.” (34:28)

• Trump’s Tense Position & Partisan Dynamics:

  • Saagar: “This is an issue that just absolutely embodies what people see as the swamp. And you can’t kind of hand wave it away.” (36:25)
  • Krystal speculates on Trump’s resistance: “For Trump to hold on this long really makes you wonder—what is he worried about is in there?” (38:22)

• Bipartisan Obstruction—Who’s Protecting Whom?

  • They discuss why presidents (Democratic and Republican alike) have moved cautiously, suggesting the real incentive is “protecting the intelligence community.”
    • Saagar: “The one incentive that ties them together is protecting the intelligence community. That explains the reluctance on both their parts.” (39:11)
  • Krystal: “If you’re not connected to the crimes, fine. But if your name is in the emails and you were trading your power as a US official to try to sleep with a Chinese Communist Party official’s daughter... sorry if that’s going to cause you a few days of bad press.” (42:19)

• The MTG–Trump Rift:

  • MTG publicly criticizes Trump for prioritizing personal allegiances and exposing herself to political risk to stand with Epstein survivors.

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3. Epstein’s Banking and Cyber Connections: Rothschild Bank & Israeli Cyberweapons

[51:25–61:08]

• Epstein, Swiss Rothschild Bank, and Israeli Cyber:

  • Krystal details new reporting: Epstein cultivated ties to the Swiss Rothschild Bank to finance ex-Israeli PM Ehud Barak’s cyberweapons ventures.
    • “Jeffrey Epstein pursued Swiss Rothschild bank to finance Israeli cyber weapons empire.” (51:25)
    • The relationship, initially denied by the bank, was in fact “very, very deep.”
    • Ariane de Rothschild directly courted Barak via Epstein: “If Ehud wants to make serious money, he will have to build a relationship with me, take time so that we can truly understand one another.” (Krystal quoting email, 56:00)
  • Epstein also connected Rothschild to powerful defense and cyber companies that are now ubiquitous online (referencing Akamai, Gardacor, etc.).
  • “They really made our world in a significant way... and are doing it again just so casually in their emails.” (59:27)

• Tech, Intelligence, and Casual Corruption:

  • The hosts marvel at the informality and arrogance in these circles: government officials, bankers, and tech visionaries exchanging messages about “national security, literally global security and just making money off of it, changing the world like it’s nothing.” (60:35)
  • Suggests mainstream media still underreports or understates Epstein’s true role—as a “fixer,” connector, and possible blackmailer at the intersection of politics, espionage, and finance.

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4. Obama Official Critiques Holocaust Education in the Social Media Era

[62:30–73:18]

• Viral Clip from Sarah Hurwitz, Obama Speechwriter:

  • Hurwitz laments that Holocaust education and unfiltered social media imagery (particularly from Gaza) have led young people to instinctively side with “powerless” Palestinians over “powerful” Israelis, fueling antisemitism.
    • Hurwitz: “TikTok just smashing our young people’s brains all day long with video of carnage in Gaza... They learn about big, strong Nazis hurting weak, emaciated Jews... So [when] they see powerful Israelis hurting weak, skinny Palestinians... they think the lesson of the Holocaust is you fight Israel.” (63:15)

• Hosts’ Critique:

  • Krystal pipes up, “My worldview is being rejected because people are seeing images of carnage, people are seeing facts… It’s not my worldview that needs to change. It isn’t that we should end the carnage. We should end the Holocaust education, and we should make sure that we can kill social media so people don’t see the images.” (65:08)
  • Saagar: “That’s the death rattle of the gatekeepers… She is truly upset that people have access to information that previously… was kept out.” (65:23)
  • Krystal: “Even if you don’t care about the people themselves. It looks really bad.” (69:40)
  • They both emphasize that a basic human/animal sense of justice is offended by images of civilians being bombed, regardless of educational framing.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On US-Saudi Relations & Khashoggi:

  • Trump: “He’s done a phenomenal job... a lot of people didn’t like that gentleman you’re talking about. Whether you like him or not, things happen.” (11:32)
  • MBS: “It’s painful and it’s a huge mistake.” (17:37)
  • Krystal: “‘Bureaucratic error, you know, he wanted documents to get married. They thought he wanted to be chopped into pieces. These things happen.’” (17:51)

• On Epstein and Elites:

  • Krystal: “If your name is in the emails and you didn’t do anything wrong, fine. If your name is in the emails and you were trading your power... for your own personal gain… sorry if that’s going to cause you a few days of bad press.” (42:19)

• On Social Media & Holocaust Education:

  • Hurwitz: “Unfortunately, the very smart bet we made on Holocaust education as anti-Semitism education… is beginning to break down… they think, ‘oh, the lesson of the Holocaust is you fight Israel.’” (63:15)
  • Saagar: “That’s the death rattle of the gatekeepers.” (65:23)
  • Krystal: “Even animals understand when a powerful force is attacking the weak, that’s wrong. You don’t actually need education to understand that.” (69:44)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Trump–MBS Meeting & Khashoggi Discussion: [02:23–13:00]
• Epstein Files Vote / MTG–Trump Fallout: [33:57–45:31]
• Epstein–Rothschild–Cyberweapons Ties: [51:25–61:08]
• Antisemitism, Social Media, Holocaust Ed: [62:30–73:18]

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Tone & Style

The episode flows with Breaking Points’ characteristic mix of sharp analysis, blunt critique of power, sardonic humor, and a populist, anti-establishment bent. Krystal and Saagar alternate between earnest policy breakdowns, incredulous asides, and ironic commentary, intentionally exposing uncomfortable truths and challenging official narratives.

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Conclusion

This episode pulls back the curtain on elite deal-making (US-Saudi, big tech, intelligence), the politicization of trauma and education, and the grassroots demand for transparency about Jeffrey Epstein. The hosts insist on confronting reality and spotlighting hypocrisy, offering a primer on why independent journalism is more vital than ever in a post-gatekeeper world.

Transcript

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Seems like something's missing.

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Learn [e-mail] sustainability huge mos a completar la frase Jingle blank ovio los jingle jammies Por que cuando Old Navy lanza los jingle jammies Sabes que las fiestas an comensado la nueva colecion es la mas grande atara fecha ventidos estampados en muchissimos estilos des cuadrados classicos hasta divertidos tienen camisetas con graficas ahuegos sudaderas medias mantas de lana os hueteres paramascotas con ciguetos Jingle jammies Anima y ha officiala temporada encuentra Jingle jammies Iotos articulos festivos and Old Navy Pun to come.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Emily]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Saagar Enjeti]

This is the only place where you.

[Krystal Ball]

Can find honest perspectives from the left.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

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[Saagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail].

[Krystal Ball]

Good morning and welcome to Breaking Points. Emily, how you doing?

[Saagar Enjeti]

I'm doing great. How was Portugal?

[Krystal Ball]

Lovely.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I don't doubt that.

[Krystal Ball]

Quite lovely.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. That's an evergreen statement on Portugal.

[Krystal Ball]

Sad to be back.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Big show, big show because Mohammed bin Salman was at the White House yesterday and in a very newsy series of Pressers. So there was the dinner that we are going to break down for everyone. But also his appearance in the Oval Office with Donald Trump where Trump fielded questions from reporters. They stroked each other's hands.

[Krystal Ball]

It sure did. No fist bumps, right? Yeah. No brochure bumps for those two terrorist.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Fist jabs isn't what is that what that was? That was Obama.

[Krystal Ball]

They live for the handshake.

[Saagar Enjeti]

They live for the handshake. That's right. And Ryan New Epstein reporting from Dropsite.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes. Yesterday the House voted almost unanimously right. To force the administration to release Epstein files. That will. Now that fight moves over to the Senate at drop scene. Drop scene. Drop site.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Not the first time that's happened.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes, we have new reporting that is difficult to describe without sounding like a lunatic, but it's all based in real documents and correspondence between Epstein and others. And we'll break some of that down. The media continues to find its blinders on when it comes to trying to figure out what it was Epstein did for a living.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's great for drops, though.

[Krystal Ball]

They just can't figure it out. It's such a mystery.

[Saagar Enjeti]

They're leaving it wide open for years.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's not look in the documents and in the correspondence to figure it out. Because who can say what he did?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Who could say. Who would want to do that level of journalism? Right.

[Krystal Ball]

We could say stick around. We'll talk about that. The economy continues to be in a very confusing state of like stasis and collapse at the same time. We'll talk about new data showing that more than half of homes are now losing value, which is the first time that's happened since 2012. You got a Home Depot warning and you've got places like Cava and others, you know, flashing warning signs that the consumer economy is, is crumbling, new hires collapsing, yet the stock market booming, data centers are getting built, the AI bubble continues to inflate. So who knows how that ends. We'll see.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Truly, it's another mystery. Another mystery.

[Women's Health Podcast Announcer]

All right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We'll also be talking about the protests in Mexico City. Not just Mexico City, mostly Mexico City. Breaking those down. There's been some coverage of them that doesn't quite get it right. So we're going to try to do a better job explaining what the heck is going on in Mexico. And then, Ryan, we have Van Lathan on the show.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes, Van Lathan, friend of the show, huge fan of Breaking Points. We're huge fans of his. So he's going to join us to talk about Chi Ose, who is launching a primary Challenge to Hakeem Jeffries and the kind of surprising turn of events that Zoran Mamdani and AOC are not in at all and actually kind of pushing back, like, now is not the time to challenge the caucus. The Democratic leader.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, this will be a good one.

[Krystal Ball]

We'll break that down. Plus a new ruling down in Texas that the gerrymander there is illegal. So California redistricted and then sent it to its voters to make sure it was legal in response to Texas doing its gerrymander. And now a Texas court says actually the Texas one's illegal. Man, be funny if the Democrats were like, all right, we're good, then we're gonna undo ours. Yeah, they will, but don't think they're going to.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Not gonna happen. We'll also be joined by Nicholas Eberstadt, who is, I would argue, probably the premier researcher on young men in the workforce or men in the workforce in general. And we're gonna be talking with him about the plight of young men with numbers now showing perhaps record levels of unemployment with this next next group of college graduates coming up in just a few months. If you are a recent college graduate, you know how hard it's been to get a job in this environment. So we will go through all of that. Make sure to subscribe. By the way, if you're not subscribed already, you can get a premium subscription over@breaking points.com where you get the second half of the Friday shows. You get every show with our commercials right in your inbox every single day. We appreciate it. We'll also be doing an AMA for premium subscribers after we tape today's show. So if you want access to those AMAs, breaking points.com no problem. If you can't subscribe on the videos, comment on the videos, subscribe to the channel, comment on the videos, and wherever you get your podcasts, it helps us a lot. Ryan, let's turn to Mohammed bin Salman's visit to the White House yesterday.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. So back in September, Israel decided to bomb Doha, where the. Where Hamas was gathered to deliberate about the latest peace agreement that Donald Trump had sent to them. That bombing quickly led to the United States making an offer to Qatar that they would be basically a NATO ish, non NATO ally, which meant that if Israel did that again, according to the terms of this agreement, the US Would then have to attack Israel or if anybody attacked Qatar, we would, we would attack. We would attack them in response. There are now two countries that have gotten non NATO agreements out of the decision by Israel to Bomb NATO. Because as soon as we offered that to Doha, everyone else in the region was like, wait a minute, hold on. It's like when you start inviting cousins to the wedding, it's like, oh, no. Like, wow, this is. There are going to be a lot of cousins getting non NATO agreements. So here's Trump last night inviting another cousin to the wedding.

[Mohammed bin Salman]

Tonight, I'm pleased to announce that we are taking our military cooperation to even greater heights by formally designating Saudi Arabia as a major non NATO ally, which is something that is very important to them. And I'm just telling you now for the first time because I wanted to keep a little secret for tonight. I just heard him say, oh, that's nice, that's another point you won today. But. And signing a historic Strategic Defense Agreement, which we just signed a little while ago. So congratulations, it's artillery.

[Krystal Ball]

And so this followed the earlier Oval Office meeting between MBS and Trump with this kind of mutual humiliation ritual, although it wasn't really humiliating on Trump's side because I don't think he's capable of humiliation. But, but certainly I think if you're mbs, the entire thing was humiliating start to finish. Yet he's going to walk out with pretty much everything he wants, including getting exonerated for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. In it, MBS promised he's going to do up to a trillion dollars. Nice round number. Trillion dollars in investment in the United States. How are people on the right responding to Trump making another deal with another country that says, we will commit our American military to defend this country also in the event of any upcoming conflict?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Honestly, I haven't seen much reaction like, whatever. It's like everyone right now is focused on the infighting. There hasn't been much reaction to this major foreign policy announcement.

[Krystal Ball]

Stuff is still, like, boiling, still going.

[Saagar Enjeti]

But I think also people see Trump, people on the right see Trump as this, like, peacemaker and dealmaker. Exactly as he casts himself and sort of ascribe to him this level of trust. Like, he knows the sort of attitude is he knows what he's doing or the postures. He knows what he's doing. He is just currying favor in a way that creates peaceful conditions. And that's probably the best summary of an average person on the right looking at what was happening. Because you made an interesting point where he says humiliating for MBS. But I know we have the 911 clip that it was addressed in the Oval Office yesterday. Of course. Well, why not? And you could argue, you flip this around it's humiliating for the United States as well.

[Krystal Ball]

Complete and total humiliation. Where we have our president, who knows better, lying about whether or not the guy killed somebody. And not just somebody. An American columnist for the resident columnist for the Washington Post. He also is giving them a whole bunch of F35s and a bunch of tanks. Like, so, like. And that has been a big source of contention. That has been a major desire of Saudi Arabia. Why? Like, what are they going to do with these F35s? Just, you're the richest country on the planet. Like, you want what you can't have. They couldn't have F35s. So they want the F35s.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Got to get those F35s.

[Krystal Ball]

Got to get the F35s.

[Saagar Enjeti]

The Red Rider BB gun of defense products.

[Krystal Ball]

And so an ABC News reporter pressed him on the assassination of Khashoggi, who was chopped to pieces with a bone saw in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Let's play that. And the reaction is Trump blowing all away.

[Saudi Official]

It's under the league, Mr. President.

[Mohammed bin Salman]

And Trump doesn't give a fist pump. I grabbed that hand. I don't give a hell where that hand's been. I grabbed that. He's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen. But he knew nothing about it, and we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guest by asking a question like that.

[Saudi Official]

Generous. It's really painful to hear, you know, anyone that been losing his life for, you know, no real purpose or not in a legal way. And it's been painful for us in Saudi Arabia. We've did all the right steps of investigation, et cetera in Saudi Arabia. And we've improved our system to be sure that nothing happened like that. And it's painful and it's a huge mistake and we are doing our best that this doesn't happen again.

[Mohammed bin Salman]

I'm very proud of the job he's done. What he's done is incredible in terms of human rights and everything else. And he's the crown prince, the future king.

[Krystal Ball]

Couldn't stop laughing there. Like he, like mbs, like, did he just burst into like a wide, like Cheshire cat grin?

[Saagar Enjeti]

It looked like it.

[Krystal Ball]

When he said he's done an incredible job with human rights. Did he say that it was a mistake that happened? That they carved him into pieces?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Something to that Here, let Me find the verbatim quote.

[Krystal Ball]

And while you're looking for that, Bob Woodward posted last night, he's like, I interviewed Trump January of 2020 about this exact thing. Trump said, I've gotten involved very much. I know everything about the whole situation. He's talking about Khashoggi. So what happened, sir? I asked. I saved his ass. Trump said, that's what happened. Saved whose ass? Mbs. Trump said they were coming down on him very strongly, but I was able to get Congress to leave him alone. I was able to get them to stop. You know, I'm very friendly with those guys. The CIA has looked into this. Turkish intelligence has looked into this. Everybody who has looked into this has concluded definitively that Saudi Arabia, mbs, ordered the killing, that a hit squad was flown into Istanbul. They lured him into the. Into that office. They injected him with some tranquilizing device, and then they used a bone saw, chopped into pieces, and then dissolved his body and took it back to the residence. This was not a mistake. This was not something slipping through the cracks. And this is a very long block. So I won't linger on my personal connection to this for too long. But I had lunch with him, with Khashoggi. With Khashoggi a couple weeks before he was killed. And he actually, because he was writing for the Washington Post, but they weren't publishing his columns very frequently. And so he wanted to start writing for us as well so that he could publish more for the air. Frequent. Yeah, more frequently because we were known as pretty adversarial to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the UAE and the other factions here. And actually, a friend of mine had. So he was in Istanbul. He then flew to London over the weekend. My friend had lunch with him that weekend right before he went to the consulate. And I said to him, are you sure you want to go into the consulate? He's like, no. They have assured me, I just need this paperwork for my wedding. It's going to be fine. So he goes into the consulate with his wife, his fiance staying outside. He's in there for a couple hours. She reaches out to a mutual friend of ours, who then calls me and is like, jamal's been in the consulate now for too long. And I'm starting to get nervous. And I did something I really haven't done, hadn't done before. I reached out to Kushner, who I had been in touch with, for stories. And I made sure to phrase it in a journalistic way, right? But I was like, hey. Which it was, yeah, hey, Jared, I'm hearing from Jamal's fiance that he went into the consulate and has not emerged. You know, can you see if you can confirm anything about this? I know you're in touch with mbs, maybe like to see what you can find out about this. Got the double check on WhatsApp. He had responded in the past, didn't respond to this. And I sent a couple more, hearing this, hearing this, hearing this. And then we immediately started writing stories like that this guy's missing. Went around the Senate, said, you heard anything? People said, no, hadn't heard anything. And then it was several days later that it finally emerged that he'd been killed. And so I know for certain that Kushner knew, like, while it was happening that it was happening. What he did, we don't know. Like, did he reach out to MBS and say, hey, there's a Washington Post columnist who went into your consulate and hasn't come out. What's going on with that? I don't know. We don't know. He's never been pressed on that, which is rather staggering. Saudi Arabia kind of laid low for a while. Nobody in Washington, almost everybody in Washington walked away from them. Some firms, you know, stayed, but almost all the firms, like, dropped them. And they. They became a pariah and toxic for a while. Biden, even in the campaign called them a pariah. But, you know, money talks and they're back, and now they're a non NATO ally with. And Trump is doing. In some ways, it's humiliating, but in other ways, it's just a blunt way out. It's like, you know what? We're not going to overlook that he did this. We're just going to deny it. We'll be like, you know, he didn't do that. Don't embarrass our guest.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Don't embarrass our guest saying that to the press.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

By the way, it reminded me of when a reporter was going after Zelensky's outfit, which is. You'd think that would fall under the not embarrassing our guest umbrella.

[Krystal Ball]

But what about MBS's outfit? That's not a suit, right?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes, that's a good point.

[Krystal Ball]

No tie.

[Saagar Enjeti]

The MBS quote yesterday was, quote, it's painful and it's a huge mistake. So you're right. That word is exactly what was invok, quote, about the journalist. It's really painful to hear anyone that has been losing his life for no real purpose or not in a legal.

[Krystal Ball]

Way, it was a mistake. You know, bureaucratic error, you know, he wanted documents in order to make sure that he could get married. They thought he wanted to be chopped into pieces. These kinds of mistakes happen.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. We should also mention, Ryan, that Adnan Khashoggi, who was Jamal Khashoggi's uncle on his father's side, is. Was in financial relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, as far as everyone can tell. And was involved in Iran Contra. Yep, was involved in Iran Contra. And I believe actually one of Trump's yachts in the 1980s had originally been commissioned by Adnan Khashoggi. I think it's also true that the Lady Ghislaine was originally. Was. Was commissioned by Adnan Khashoggi. Wild confluence of relationships.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And Jamal was a very highly regarded journalist, but he was basically, he didn't. He was. Let's not pretend that he was like some like hardcore champion of freedom and democracy and human rights. He was allied with MBN. Right. Who, who was MbS's rival. And MbS, NBN was actually closer to the CIA. MbS was closer to the UAE and Israel and they managed to like jump over NBN and make MBS the crown prince and that put Khashoggi on the outs. So this was. We're talking about an inter Royal family factional dispute here more than we're talking about something on principle. Although once he. What you find is that dissidents will use the arguments that are useful to them.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Of course.

[Krystal Ball]

And so he would make the arguments, those arguments on behalf of values of liberalism and freedom.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right. And. And Trump, of course, is not a novice in this space. He's. He's been involved in these types of deals and relationships going back quite a long time. Interesting that it was also happening against the backdrop of the Epstein file release, which we will get to in one moment as well.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Hello, hello, this is Malcolm Glabel from Smart talks with IBM. Today we're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari hp.

[Stefano Pallard]

Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Malcolm Glebel]

I'm still working on rolling my R's, but what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans in the digital age.

[Stefano Pallard]

Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something, so they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team.

[Malcolm Glebel]

You've got Ferrari, which has a long history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Stefano Pallard]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

[Malcolm Glebel]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit IBM.com Ferrari.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Are.

[TikTok Announcer]

You a creator on TikTok? This is your moment to elevate your content. Get ready for TikTok's Live Fest 2025, the biggest annual celebration spotlighting creators from around the world. Whether you're an aspiring artist singing in your bedroom, a home cook sharing your family recipes, or a gamer chasing victories in real time, there's an audience waiting for you every day. Creators worldwide hit that Go Live button on their screen to share a piece of their life and inspire millions of people. TikTok Live gives every creator a stage to unleash their talent and build their own communities. This year's Live Fest is your chance to show the world what you can do. You could have a shot at taking home real trophies and walking down the red carpet at their annual awards ceremony. So whether you're just starting out on TikTok or already growing your community, check out LiveFest2025 on TikTok to find out how you can be part of this global celebration. Let's elevate Live together.

[Women's Health Podcast Announcer]

Here's something good on women's health and longevity, a new podcast on iHeart. Join us for groundbreaking conversations with renowned medical experts. They'll share the latest breakthroughs, the good news about women's health, and the simple steps women can take to help them live healthier and happier every day. Be sure to listen to our episode Pelvic Strengthening youg Weight to Better Bladder Health, where we dive into the unique physical, emotional and social challenges associated with heavy bladder leaks. This episode provides supportive guidance for managing heavier leaks with expert tips on pelvic floor strength and product fit brought to you by Always Discreet, offering products that can support you in your daily life, and providing the comfort and protection you need to feel secure. Found at Walgreens, the women's well being destination supporting every stage. Listen to hear something good on women's health and longevity on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[Krystal Ball]

So, speaking about freedoms, Donald Trump responded to this exchange about the killing of an American journalist by telling the American journalists who asked about it that maybe they should have their license revoked for asking about it. Let's roll this one.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files?

[Krystal Ball]

Why not just do it now?

[Mohammed bin Salman]

Well, it's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It's the way you ask these questions. You start off with a man who's highly respected asking him a horrible, insubordinate and just a terrible question. And you could even ask that same exact question nicely. You're all psyched. Somebody psychs you over at abc, they're going to psych it. You're a terrible person and a terrible reporter. I'll tell you something. I think the license should be taken away from ABC because your news is so fake and it's so wrong. And we have a great commissioner, the chairman who should look at that.

[Krystal Ball]

Maybe Barry Weiss could run ABC too. How about that?

[Saagar Enjeti]

I don't know if that merger would get approved, but hey, probably. Why not?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. BC There you go. Just call it bc Just call it BC Broadcasting.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Barry Broadcasting BBC. And she can take over the BBC because of the controversy that they're having over there with Trump too.

[Saagar Enjeti]

You're coming up with all the solutions.

[Krystal Ball]

She can have them all. Yeah.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean we should just let you run the media.

[Krystal Ball]

No, I don't think Barry's got it under control. So speaking of embarrassing the guest awkward, but he got pressed on Saudi Arabia's role in 911 also. Let's roll that one.

[Saudi Official]

I feel painful about, you know, families of 911 in America. But you know, we have to focus on reality. Reality based on CIA documents and based on a lot of documents that Osama bin Laden used Saudi people in that event for one main purpose is to destroy this relation. To destroy the American Saudi relation. That's the. The purpose of 911. So whoever buying that, that means they are helping Osama bin Laden purpose of destroying this relation. He know that strong relation between America and Saudi Arabia. It's bad for extremism, it's bad for terrorism. And we have to approve him.

[Krystal Ball]

Wrong.

[Saudi Official]

And to build our relation, continue developing our relations. It's critical in the safety of the world. It's critical against extremism and terrorism.

[Krystal Ball]

Strike you as an innocent man there.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Just hands, totally clean. He's. When he was saying it's bad for tourism. That's a good one.

[Krystal Ball]

It was for a little while. Well, no, actually it was nine. I guess certainly the Khashoggi killing was bad for tourism for a little while.

[Mohammed bin Salman]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean he's not the comedy fests and the.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That's right.

[Krystal Ball]

It's all back. Trump also made an argument that I guess his tariffs are making America great again. Because Saudi Arabia is investing heavily in the United States to build its manufacturing base. Let's roll a 5.

[Saudi Official]

Many areas in technology, AI and materials, magnet, et cetera, that will create a lot of investment opportunities.

[Mohammed bin Salman]

So you are doing that now. You're saying to me now that the 600 billion will be 1 trillion.

[Saudi Official]

Definitely. Because what we are signing, it will facilitate that and we will build on it.

[Krystal Ball]

Go ahead.

[Saudi Official]

You worked hard.

[Mohammed bin Salman]

No, that's great. That's. I appreciate that. That's great. It's. No, we're doing numbers that nobody's ever done. And in all fairness, if you didn't see potential in the US you wouldn't be doing that. You don't want to lose money. We use tariffs to bring all this money in, and you're going to see the results in a year when these plants start to open up. We have more plants under construction now than at any time in the history of our country. And these are big plants. These are the biggest plants anywhere in the world.

[Krystal Ball]

And the backdrop here is that Trump has been pressuring Saudi Arabia to normalize relations with Israel. Saudi Arabia has continued to say, you got to give us something on Palestinian statehood. We cannot do it without it. Let's roll a little bit of the exchange on the Abraham Accords here at day six.

[Saudi Official]

Having a good relations with all of the eastern countries. It's a good thing and we want to be part of the accord, but we want also to be sure that we secure a clear path of two state solution. And today we have a healthy discussion with Mr. President that we're going to work on that, to be sure that we can prepare for the right situation as soon as possible to have that.

[Mohammed bin Salman]

I think we're, you know, I don't want to use the word commitment, but we've had a very good talk on the Abraham Accords. We talked about one state, two state. You know, we talked about a lot of things in a short period of time. We'll be discussing it further, too. But I think you have a very good feeling for the Abraham accords.

[Saudi Official]

Yes, definitely, Mr. President. We want peace for the Israelis. We want peace for the Palestinians. We want them to coexist peacefully in the region. And we will do our best to, to reach that date.

[Mohammed bin Salman]

And a defense agreement. Have you reached agreement on that? We pretty much have.

[Krystal Ball]

So, as you can hear from him, even the second time that Trump says, like, you've got a really warm feeling towards the Abraham Accords though, right? He was like, well, as long as there's peace and coexistence with the Palestinians, like, that is still, for domestic and regional reasons, a line that MBS is not able to cross. I think MBS personally, like, if it were up to him, he doesn't care. He'd be happy to join the Abraham Accords and strike endless business and political deals with Israel and just ignore the fact of the Palestinians. But he just, he knows that you, that he cannot do that. He just, he doesn't have it. The regional and domestic politics just simply won't allow it.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And if you're just listening to this, by the way, and you're seeing the clips, what you're missing is Trump literally slapping MBS on the knee. They were playing with each other's hands at one point because they went in for a fist bump. But Trump said he doesn't do fist bumps. It was a level of friendliness that you would rarely see between a president and any foreign leader, let alone the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.

[Krystal Ball]

And his friendliness. But it's also Trump's kind of little ribbing, bullying style that he has because mbs, as you can tell, is a very awkward figure. And so Trump kind of knee slapping him and pushing him around. It's like he knows he's kind of pushing MBS out of his comfort zone a little bit. And it's kind of an alpha dog thing that he's doing.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Oh, that's interesting. That's an interesting psychological reading.

[Krystal Ball]

That's my reading.

[Saagar Enjeti]

That is interesting, though. Now, they had this dinner last night. Did you see this, where Cristiano Ronaldo was there?

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, yes, I heard that he was there and that the dinner is where they announced that they're going to become a major non NATO ally.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right, yeah. Trump rolled out that announcement.

[Krystal Ball]

He had horses for him instead of camels.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, what else would you do? But, yes, that was announced just last night. Trump made it clear that's where we were going with the relationship. And this was a. I mean, again, you can understand why, but it was a packed dinner. Elon Musk was there. Ronaldo.

[Krystal Ball]

A lot of money there.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Cabinet officials, Howard Letnick, those types of people. Yes, lots and lots of money there. Red carpet was rolled out, to say the least, for MBS yesterday.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Hello, hello, this is Malcolm Glebel from Smart talks with IBM. Today. We're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari.

[Stefano Pallard]

H. Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Malcolm Glebel]

I'm still working on rolling my R's, but what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans in the digital age.

[Stefano Pallard]

Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something, so they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team.

[Malcolm Glebel]

You've got Ferrari, which has a long history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Stefano Pallard]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

[Malcolm Glebel]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit IBM.com Ferrari.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Are.

[TikTok Announcer]

You a creator on TikTok? This is your moment to elevate your content. Get ready for TikTok's Live Fest 2025, the biggest annual celebration spotlighting creators from around the world. Whether you're an aspiring artist singing in your bedroom, a home cook sharing your family recipes, or a gamer chasing victories in real time, there's an audience waiting for you every day. Creators worldwide hit that Go Live button on their screen to share a piece of their life and inspire millions of people. TikTok Live gives every creator a stage to unleash their talent and build their own communities. This year's Live Fest is your chance to show the world what you can do. You could have a shot at taking home real trophies and walking down the red carpet at their annual awards ceremony. So whether you're just starting out on TikTok or already growing your community, check out LiveFest2025 on TikTok to find out how you can be part of this global celebration. Let's elevate Live together.

[Women's Health Podcast Announcer]

Here's something good on women's health and longevity, a new podcast on iHeart. Join us for groundbreaking conversations with renowned medical experts. They'll share the latest breakthroughs, the good news about women's health, and the simple steps women can take to help them live healthier and happier every day. Be sure to listen to our episode Pelvic Power Strengthening youg Weight to Better Bladder Health, where we dive into the unique physical, emotional and social challenges associated with heavy bladder leaks. This episode provides supportive guidance for managing heavier leaks with expert tips on pelvic floor strength and product fit. Brought to you by Always Discreet, offering products that can support you in your daily life and providing the comfort and protection you need to feel secure. Found at Walgreens, the Women's well being destination. Supporting every stage. Listen to hear something Good on women's health and longevity on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[Krystal Ball]

So, a good friend of MBS's, by the way, was financier and sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Wow.

[Krystal Ball]

Jeffrey Epstein was the subject of a vote yesterday in the House of Representatives. We can roll a. Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has now been denounced by President Trump, embraced by some Democrats, held a press conference with Epstein victims outside of Congress. Here's Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I was called a traitor by a man that I fought for five. No, actually six years for, and I gave him my loyalty for free. I won my first election without his endorsement, beating eight men in a primary. And I've never owed him anything, but I fought for him, for the policies and for America first. And he called me a traitor for standing with these women and refusing to take my name off the discharge petition. Let me tell you what a traitor is. A traitor is a. Is an American that serves foreign countries and themselves. A patriot is an American that serves the United States of America and Americans like the women standing behind me. And I want to tell you that this only became possible today because the American people, whom we serve as representatives here in Congress, demanded that this vote happen. And they put more pressure on every single elected politician in this city than has ever been put on them. And today you are going to see probably a unanimous vote in the House to release the Epstein files. But the fight, the real fight, will happen after that.

[Krystal Ball]

So I think, Emily, that that's true, that the public did put enormous pressure on these representatives, including by electing, you know, Adelaide to Rohalva and, you know, getting 218 signatures on the discharge petition and forcing Trump's hand to the point where he said, you know, what, just everybody should just vote for at this point. Is that right? You think like, that this was a real kind of a rare dub for the people?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I mean, I absolutely think so. People may remember before the August recess on this show, I covered talking to a bunch of Republican congressmen on the Hill. It was just a couple of days before recess, and I was asking them, are you expecting to get questions about Epstein? Because at the time, Trump's line, and he's still using this now to some extent, but his line was, this is all a distraction. This is a Democrat hoax to get you to, you know, not focused on the one big beautiful bill and all of that. And I actually didn't get that response from Republican congressmen that I talked to who were saying, no, we fully expect to hear from our constituents about Jeffrey Epstein. And so I think that's exactly what happened. I think Trump learned that it wasn't going anywhere. The issue wasn't going anywhere. He saw that could not control the people like Marjorie Taylor Greene going all over media. It just would not die away. And I think Trump believed he had more control over the base. And he does have a lot of control over the base. But this is an issue that just absolutely embodies what people see as the swamp. And you can't kind of hand wave it away. And so while people may be willing to like bend over backwards and exonerate Donald Trump and say, well, he's, you know, nothing to do with Epstein, they are not willing to do that with Epstein overall say, go away, like this doesn't matter. And so I think genuinely the Republicans realized it wasn't just Marjorie Taylor Greene going on like the View. It was actually also that you had congressmen saying, we're going to have to vote for this discharge petition. We can't be voting against this discharge petition. And I think when Trump realized where the numbers were going, it was a cost benefit analysis. He was like, well, the cost of whatever comes out is worth the benefit to these guys of having to take the vote at this point.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

And for Trump to hold on this long really makes you wonder, like, what is he worried about is in there? Because he knows better than anybody that for years the Republican base was told the world government is being run by a secret cabal of predator pedophiles. Then you catch one and you're told, well, never mind.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

Like that's not gonna fly, right?

[Saagar Enjeti]

No, no. And it didn't.

[Krystal Ball]

If you hadn't spent years telling them that they were run by a cabal of pedophiles, then maybe you catch one pedophile who's in the cabal and you can get away with like, ah, nevermind, just a hoax. Let this one go.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right?

[Krystal Ball]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Pull on this string.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. And what I mean, the incentive, the explanation for why you have Democratic presidents and Republican presidents drain the swamp presidents and whatever the Biden presidency was defending or pushing back on disclosure is because the one incentive that ties them together is protecting the intelligence community. And so that explains, I think, the reluctance on both of their parts. I mean, it's not just Bill Clinton and Donald Trump having friendly relationships with Jeffrey Epstein. It's something deeper than that, which is why I also think Trump realizes, and I say this with no pleasure at all, but that they have some Amount of control over what is actually going to be released. He controls the government right now. And I don't know if you agree with this or not. Seems to me anything that would actually function as a smoking gun where you have Jeffrey Epstein in writing saying, I trafficked girls as blackmail to change foreign policy and make money in the process. Like, if you have that in writing, it has been destroyed or it will.

[Krystal Ball]

Not be released or it's been unalived. The person who could say that has been unalived.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes, yes, yes. And so the. It's obvious that you can.

[Krystal Ball]

The other person who could say that is getting kid glove treatment now in minimum security prison.

[Saagar Enjeti]

There you go. And so the Epstein story is not going away. So there's two possibilities. You can either look like you're for disclosure, or you can look like you're for stonewalling. But those are the only two options.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And so speaking of stonewalling, one method they're going to use is, well, this is all a matter of national security. So let's roll. Speaker Mike Johnson here. Doj or the FBI has already reviewed it and determined it is not credible. It is false information. Doing this and requiring this to come out could ruin the reputations of completely innocent people, such as those who have made may just have known Epstein, but knew nothing of his crimes or whose names he exploited. Think of this. Innocent people whose names he exploited and used to try to get close to his intended victims. Their names maybe in these files, and they had nothing to do with this. And so by just haphazardly releasing it, you're going to destroy their reputations. I mean, look, I think it is fine to say, just because your name is in these emails does not mean that you are a bad person. In fact, I don't know if you've noticed this. My former colleague, Akbar Ahmed, his name was in an exchange between Bannon and Epstein, but it was. I think Bannon was sending an article that Akbar had written at the Huffington Post, and Epstein said, that sounds like his name sounds like an SNL skit. And Bannon replied, quote, very gay Pakistani. So look, he's in there.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Vgp, vgp.

[Krystal Ball]

He's in there. I told him he should put that on a T shirt. Yes, but that doesn't mean that he was involved in the predator ring.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right?

[Krystal Ball]

There's plenty of names in there of people who were innocent. And if that's you, don't worry about it. You're gonna be fine. It's only if you're connected to the crimes, like A lot of people's names. A lot of people have had some problems that they've gotten attention that they haven't wanted because they've been in these emails.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right? Larry Summers.

[Krystal Ball]

But Larry Summers was, like, not cheating on his wife. Okay? That's between consenting adults. Fine, whatever. He was favorably treating a top Chinese Communist Party official who was a key, like, royal figure in the CCP with. With power over the Belt and Road initiative in order to get in his daughter's pants. Like, so that becomes an actual matter of public concern because he's trading US Policy or whatever levers he has in order for his own personal gain so that we can be disgusted by and sorry, Mike Johnson, that your friend Larry Summers is going to suffer a little bit because of this. Maybe he shouldn't have done those things. And so I think this, like, this thing from Johnson and everybody else, both parties who's doing it. Think of the innocent people. Like, no, the innocent people are the ones that were behind Marjorie Taylor Greene outside of Congress. The victims of Epstein. Innocent people. If your name is in those emails and you didn't do anything wrong, fine. But if your name is in the emails and you were trading your power as a US Official to try to sleep with a Chinese Communist Party official's daughter, and sorry if that's going to cause you a few days of bad press.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Well, there was also.

[Krystal Ball]

And maybe the open AI board meeting for you next time is a little bit uncomfortable.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean, there will be, quote, unquote, innocent people. I mean, if you were running in these circles at all and you had any possibility of having your name come up, even if it was in the most innocent of way, like, at minimum, it will be a headache. So I'm sure people are expecting a headache, maybe legal headache, and then maybe in their own personal lives. Like there was the department store heir, family who. He was the one who said, jeffrey, help me here. Is he a hooker? Is she a hooker? Did you see that email? That was a good one. So obviously he was exposed. Maybe his wife already knew it, maybe not. But he was exposed for his adultery. So that's probably. Probably more to come. And I would hope that everyone is relatively judicious as they go through the files and journalists reach out for comment and all of that. But I think, Ryan, generally you're correct that if you didn't do anything wrong, you should be able to explain what exactly happened, why you were in this conversation, why your name came up. Maybe you're a journalist whose article was being passed around there you go, just have to have faith in the truth.

[Krystal Ball]

There you go. Meanwhile, we didn't want to let the show pass without one of the funniest headlines that we've ever seen. We put up the next element. The headline, jared Kushner invited Jeffrey Epstein to party with Trump and Harvey Weinstein in 2013.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Hell of a party that would have been. Yeah, well, this was for the New York observer, and so it was an invitation from the company he used to.

[Krystal Ball]

Own, the New York observer newspaper. Yeah, right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And they put Kushner and his business partner's name on the bottom of it. But the guest list was ridiculous. It was like, Blake Lively, Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein. It was like, celebrities, New York people. It was like, to celebrate the anniversary of their New York observer in New York, if I'm remembering correctly. But, yeah, that's. That happened.

[Krystal Ball]

It's just whatever, because it's like Trump and Harvey Weinstein have been partying with celebrities for decades.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Trump has been a celebrity just because he hangs out with famous people. You know, up until he became president, like, there was no reason why he was a celebrity.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

He's a real estate developer. Like, what's going on here? But he hung out. He was famous, so he hung out with famous people. Weinstein famous hung out with famous people. And Epstein was at the center of. Epstein seems to be one of the best connected people on the planet from what we can tell from his emails. So would not be surprising in 2013 if you're Jared Kushner, that you'd want to invite Epstein to this thing, bearing in mind this is four years after his conviction for the underage prostitution thing. So it shows you that what types of things these elite circles are willing.

[Saagar Enjeti]

To overlook and rain. As we now talk about new dropsite reporting, I do want to say that the estate emails, in addition to the hacked emails that you all have been working through at Dropsite expose so plainly in ways that I think normally you have to, like, dig deep into the analysis of, like, history books to fully wrap your head around. And a lot of it is, you know, Cold War history that we see up close, like we're seeing right now in these emails. Just the plain, casual, banal corruption and geopolitical maneuvering from the emails over emails that are riddled with typos and unserious grammatical effort. And it's just all there for us to see. And it is really. It's jarring. I mean, it's not surprising, but just seeing it up close in writing is jarring.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Hello.

[Krystal Ball]

Hello.

[Malcolm Glebel]

This is Malcolm Glebel from Smart talks with IBM. Today. We're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari hp.

[Stefano Pallard]

Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Malcolm Glebel]

I'm still working on rolling my R's, but what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans in the digital age.

[Stefano Pallard]

Ferrari fans and superfans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community, and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team.

[Malcolm Glebel]

You've got Ferrari, which has a long history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Stefano Pallard]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology. And digital channels, are they enabled to create a deeper connection with our fans?

[Malcolm Glebel]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit IBM.com Ferrari.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Are.

[TikTok Announcer]

You a creator on TikTok? This is your moment to elevate your content. Get ready for TikTok's Live Fest 2025, the biggest annual celebration spotlighting creators from around the world. Whether you're an aspiring artist singing in your bedroom, a home cook sharing your family recipes, or a gamer chasing victories in real time, there's an audience waiting for you. Every day. Creators worldwide hit that Go Live button on the screen to share a piece of their life and inspire millions of people. TikTok Live gives every creator a stage to unleash their talent and build their own communities. This year's Live Fest is your chance to show the world what you can do. You could have a shot at taking home real trophies and walking down the red carpet at their annual awards ceremony. So whether you're just starting out on TikTok or already growing your community, check out LiveFest2025 on TikTok to find out how you can be part of this global celebration. Let's elevate Live together.

[Women's Health Podcast Announcer]

Here's something good on Women's Health and Longevity, a new podcast on iHeart. Join us for groundbreaking conversations with renowned medical experts. They'll share the latest breakthroughs, the good news about women's health, and the simple steps women can take to help them live healthier and happier every day. Be sure to listen to our episode Pelvic Strengthening your Weight to Better Bladder Health, where we dive into the unique physical, emotional and social challenges associated with heavy bladder leaks. This episode provides supportive guidance for Managing heavier leaks with expert tips on pelvic floor strength and product fit. Brought to you by Always Discreet. Offering products that can support you in your daily life and providing the comfort and protection you need to feel secure. Found at Walgreens, the women's well being destination, supporting every stage. Listen to hear something good on women's health and longevity on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes, if you're somebody who's curious about how this world really works, the release of all these documents has been a gift in that sense because it really does open a window into a world that is intended to be kept away from the public of the people who are actually making the decisions that shape the world that we live in. And we have one of those stories at Dropsite News yesterday. We can put this element. Recommend everybody go read this if you can. Headline makes you sound like a crazy person. Jeffrey Epstein pursued Swiss Rothschild bank to finance Israeli cyber weapons empire and yeah, let's pause for a second. I was like, as we're doing the reporting, you report what you have, not what you want. And as we're going through it, I'm like, could he have used a bank other than Rothschild, any other bank? It's like he's trying to make us look like lunatics. The Rothschilds were for centuries, you know, major financiers in Europe. They really faded over the last, you know, decades and century plus, but are still a, still a dominant financial institution in France and in Switzerland in particular, and particularly in Switzerland. They are among a bunch of banks that were, in fact under investigation by the Department of Justice for their willingness to, to engage in, in the kind of secrecy that is very helpful to people who are moving drugs, moving weapons, working with sanctioned individuals to finance projects. And Epstein worked with all of those kinds of people. And so this, this is the kind of bank that is very helpful to them. So what I'll go through just some of the reporting here, but 11 days before Epstein was found dead, there was this report in Bloomberg that he had met with Ariane de Rothschild, who is now the CEO of the Edmond de Rothschild Group, which is basically what the bank is called now. At the time, the bank is like, it's not true. They had no relationship. Since then, there's been some Wall Street Journal reporting on, on their relationship that showed that actually there was a little bit of a relationship that. So that wasn't quite accurate. What we can show is that the relationship was very, very deep. And just how deep we'll have some follow up reporting as well. But for now, what we can say is that when Ehud Barak left as Minister of Defense in Israel in 2013, he immediately was sought out by European banks as kind of a rainmaker. They knew that he was going to start working with oligarchs all over the world to set up companies and they wanted to be in the middle of that stream. And so he cuts a deal. I think it was Julius Baer Bank. And Epstein then quickly hears from somebody at the Rothschild bank saying, just saw that Ehud Barak was scooped up by this competitor. Too bad, because we actually would have liked to work with him. Which shows you a bunch of different things, one of which the banking world knew at that time that if they wanted to reach out to Ehud Barak, who was former Prime Minister of Israel for some type of relationship, the guy to go through was Jeffrey Epstein. At the same time, we report that Epstein, that Rothschild, because they were facing this Department of Justice investigation, needed new counsel. He went out and found an attorney for them, like on behalf of the Rothschild Bank. He reached out to Katherine Rummler, who was a top lawyer in the Obama administration. And she ended up representing the bank. And that is a matter of public record. She negotiated a non prosecution agreement.

[Saagar Enjeti]

She's at Goldman now. And she was also in these conversations that Michael Wolff has released where there's a public relations strategizing bowl session basically between Steve Bannon, Michael Wolff, Jeffrey Epstein and Kathryn Rummler.

[Krystal Ball]

Right, right. And so you know, she was also. Epstein also connected her with Gates. When Epstein was trying to build, basically he was trying to. Epstein, it seems like he was trying to take over the giving pledge and like move it into a new donor advised fund and be the, be the man behind the strings that never really completely got off the ground. So then Epstein ends up connecting Barak and Ariane to Rothschild. And we have some just absolutely wild quotes in here and we can put up some of these while I'm talking. You can just kind of roll through the different elements of emails and people can pause on those and read them. So in one of the notes, Epstein writes to Ehud Barak a message from Arian de Rothschild, where he says, and he's. So he's basically paraphrasing Ariana. He says, she says to Ehud, if Ehud wants to make serious money, he will have to build a relationship with me, take time so that we can truly understand one another, unquote. And so then Barak says he's going to defer to Epstein and you're gonna Love why I'm ready, he wrote, but I need your advice. Rehow ladies is your forte.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Can't argue that.

[Krystal Ball]

He then gives him some advice that is actually pretty decent. He's like, just be dependable and reliable and show up when you're supposed to show up. And this will work for her. And so they spend the next couple months and years building this relationship. What Epstein basically wants to do is to create a fund of funds that will create a vehicle that will allow all sorts of money from outside to flow through the Swiss bank and then finance Ehud Barak's growing empire of cyber weapons companies, which they don't call them cyber weapons when they're talking directly to Rothschild, but when they're talking to each other, they're talking about offensive cyber operations and read the story to get all the different details of it. But Barak over the years does end up building some of the key critical cyber technology, both offensive and defensive, that exists today, including some of the companies that are everywhere in the entire backbone of our Internet today. So it's hard to overstate just how influential Epstein and Barack were in building kind of the cyber world that we have today. You look up Gardacorpe or Akamai. So Gardacor was a company that was later acquired by Akamai, which is AKA Mai, and has since been integrated into basically the world's largest content delivery system. So they got their stuff in everywhere and they're constantly working with the Israeli intelligence apparatus, which is incubating all of these ideas. And then they flow up to Barack and then financed and kind of developed then by Epstein. And so they really made our world in a significant way.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And they're doing it again just so casually of their emails.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And what's interesting is that in the emails, sometimes he will say, this is too hot for email.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I know.

[Krystal Ball]

You call me. So what we're able to report now is just what he was willing to talk about on email.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

He knew that he was. He's like, this is an open email. We can't talk about X.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

So all this other stuff, he's fine talking about. So it's like. So then you're like, okay, what was he doing on those calls and what was he doing in person? He's like, we need to talk about this in person. And that'll be the subject, I think, of. Of some of our future articles here, because there are ways that you can piece together what he's been up to.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean, what you guys are already doing with that is incredible.

[Krystal Ball]

Just One other piece and then go ahead. Meanwhile, Rothschild also had a tax problem going on.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

Right in Israel, which Epstein helped her navigate as well. So people are like, what does this guy do?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

He's doing this kind of thing.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And Ehud, Barack was doing this on a Gmail, if I'm not mistaken. Larry Summers was doing this on a Gmail. It's all going back and forth on.

[Krystal Ball]

A bolt on an aol.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just remarkable for first of all how stupid that is, but also to see how cavalier they are about not national security, literally global security, and just they're going around making money off of it, changing the world like it's nothing. It's the job site. Reporting has been an incredible window and you guys are adding a lot of great context to make it easy to digest too. So if you're not reading this stuff.

[Krystal Ball]

You absolutely have to be, yeah, go and go enjoy it.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Go get it. Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Yep, you'll enjoy it. You'll be like, oh, Jesus, wow. But man. And some of the money did come through, but not, we don't know exactly for what, but there was a $25 million investment that Epstein was able to get through involving Rothschild and we're still piecing all of this together. So, yeah, wild stuff, wild, wild stuff. Meanwhile, there is a video going around that is going absolutely viral that we didn't want to pass up a chance to make sure that you saw. It's from the conference of the Jewish Federation of North America recently and it's liberal Obama speech writer Sarah Hurwitz talking about the twin problems that are, she believes, fueling antisemitism and she believes it is social media that is showing people pictures of, quote, carnage in Gaza and also a Holocaust education that has taught people that it is wrong when big powerful forces are aggressive towards the weak. Just an incredible two minute clip that I think you're gonna watch the entirety of and then Emily and I will discuss for a moment. Go ahead and roll this.

[Emily]

I think that since October 7th, but really before then there have been huge shifts in America on how people think about Jews and Israel. And I think that is especially true of young people. So we are now wrestling with a new, I think, generational divide here. And I think that's particularly true in that social media is now our source of media. And this, you know, it used to be that the, the media you got in America was American media and it was pretty mainstream. You know, it generally didn't express extreme anti Israel views. You had to go to A pretty weird bookstore to find global media and fringe media. But today we have social media, which is a global medium. It is shaped, its algorithms are shaped by billions of people worldwide who don't really love Jews. And so while in the 1990s, a young person probably wasn't going to find Al Jazeera or someone like Nick Fuentes, today those media outlets find them. They find them on their phones. It's also this increasingly post literate media. Less and less text, more and more videos. So you have TikTok just smashing our young people's brains all day long with video of carnage in Gaza. And this is why so many of us can't have a sane conversation with younger Jews, because anything that we try to say to them, they are hearing it through this wall of carnage. So I want to give data and information and facts and arguments, and they are just seeing in their minds carnage. And I sound obscene. And I think, unfortunately, the very smart, I think, bet that we made on Holocaust education to serve as anti Semitism education in this new media environment, I think that is beginning to break down a little bit because, you know, Holocaust education is absolutely essential. But I think it may be confusing some of our young people about antisemitism because they learn about big, strong Nazis hurting weak, emaciated Jews. And they think, oh, anti Semitism is like anti black racism, right? Powerful white people against powerless black people. So when on TikTok all day long they see powerful Israelis hurting weak, skinny Palestinians, it's not surprising that they think, oh, I know the lesson of the Holocaust is you fight Israel, you fight the big powerful people hurting the weak people.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, so Emily, where do you, where should we, where do we even start with this argument? My worldview is being rejected because people are seeing images of carnage, people are seeing facts. And because people have been taught that it is wrong when a powerful force uses its power to annihilate a weaker people.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And you can do that.

[Krystal Ball]

So therefore, it's not my worldview that needs to change. It isn't that we should end the carnage, we should end the Holocaust education, and we should make sure that we can kill social media so people don't see the images.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes, that's the death rattle of the gatekeepers. I mean, this clip, in a nutshell, is the death rattle of the gatekeepers. She is truly upset that people have access to information that previously she feels the gatekeepers were able to keep out, which is also somewhat wrong. Her idea that you used to have to go to a weird bookstore to get your Hands on anti Israel information. No, any bookstore had that. You can go ahead and walk into Barnes and Noble and pick up your Chomsky, it's fine. But also what she's really lamenting is the lack of control that the gatekeepers used to have to push people out. And it's convenient for her to just chalk that up to Fuentes or left wing critics of Israel. But it's obviously going well beyond fringe figures and it's not fringe, and it shouldn't be considered fringe to oppose what just happened in Gaza over the last couple of years. But she wants to actually relegate those views to the fringes and say, well, this is just craziness. But now it's mainstream because the crazies are mainstream as opposed to. Now it's mainstream because people had access to different information that you previously were able to gatekeep.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, the only line of hers that made any sense to me was when she said I sound obscene. And to me she does sound.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's a wild line.

[Krystal Ball]

She does sound obscene. And what I don't understand is how she can't see it. I don't understand this complaint about social media. After October 7th and every day up until the ceasefire, now there are a handful of fewer than 10, usually Palestinians being killed every day by Israel. You had about an average of 100 Palestinians killed every single day after October 7th for two plus years. And 80 plus percent, 90 plus percent, we're going by Israeli data here that gets leaked out. Civilians, they have smartphones in Gaza, they're able to share footage every day of the many dozens, the scores of people, up to 100 or more every day being killed in Gaza. How is that social media's fault?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right?

[Krystal Ball]

Like, what is social media? What is TikTok or Instagram? I know what they want them to.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Do, which is just not skinny Palestinians, as though that's some type of aberration. Right. That there was people seeing skinny Palestinians was misleading because it makes you think Palestinians are starving. That seems to be her point.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. So Israel wants to cut off food from getting in. Everybody loses weight in Gaza. The images of that are shared with the world. It's so hard for me to get my mind to a place where you don't say, okay, so we should actually let food in so people aren't starving. We should stop killing civilians so that we stop seeing images of civilians being killed.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

Instead we need to buy TikTok. We need to shut down the ability of people to share these images. But then the second minute of it is the most mind bending where she says it was smart of us to link anti Semitism and Holocaust to education because we talked about the Nazis and what they did and everybody understood that that was bad, but now we need to dial that back because we look like the Nazis. Yeah, that thinking to me is just, I can't, it's incomprehensible. I can't get there. Rather than her saying we're starting to look like the Nazis in the framework that we have set up with this education, so let's stop doing that. Let's not bomb these apartment buildings. Let's not bomb a tent city. Like, let's not displace 2 million people and then bomb them in their tents. Let's not do that. Because even if you don't care about the people themselves, it looks really bad.

[Saagar Enjeti]

You're being way too logical, way too logical.

[Krystal Ball]

So you're going to dial back and okay, you can dial back Holocaust education all you want. People as human beings understand that if a big powerful force is bombing unarmed people in their tents, that is wrong. You don't actually need education to understand that. You understand that as a human. In fact, almost all animals understand that, not just humans. In the animal kingdom, when animals give themselves up, oftentimes that animal instinct to devour them evaporates. Like when two dogs are fighting. If a dog gives up and exposes its belly and its neck, the other dog will back off. Those dogs did not need education to get there. It's not just a human impulse, it's an. It's across the animal kingdom for the most part. And so you can go ahead and root out Holocaust education all you want. People are still going to understand that if unarmed, innocent civilians are being bombed in tents, that's wrong. And the people doing the bombing are wrong and should be prosecuted and jailed. Everyone's going to understand that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Some background on Sarah Hurwitz. She is a very sort of mainstream Democratic establishment figure. She was appointed by Barack Obama to the US Holocaust Memorial Council right before the end of his second term. Right before Donald Trump took office. She was a speechwriter for Michelle Obama, Barack Obama, General Wesley Clark, John Kerry goes back to the early aughts, but has done the tour of kind of normie centrist Democrats over the last couple of decades.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, totally. I feel like I know her a little bit. Like she would be in my circles and I'm sure outside of this is a lovely person.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's a wild Say.

[Krystal Ball]

What has broken in your brain to get to a place where you think the problem is not what's happening or that it's okay.

[Saagar Enjeti]

To say that aloud. I mean, to say it aloud like you have the moral authority.

[Krystal Ball]

And as she was saying, it felt like a thought out. It felt like a structured comment, not like an offhanded remark that you make on a panel.

[Saagar Enjeti]

She felt smart and righteous for saying yes.

[Krystal Ball]

I think she had developed these thoughts.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

Planned them out. And she's like, this is. This is what I'm. This is what I'm going to talk about.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

And this, this is a useful thing to contribute.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Well, just as a reminder, like, increasingly, the way elites are going to talk about people who disagree with them are as people with alternative facts who occupy different narrative silos. And you know, it's going to be very patronizing, like, it's not your fault. You're just getting bad information. You can't be expected to know the truth when TikTok leads you in this direction or when social media is pushing you this way or that way, because we have no control. And so that's increasingly going to be the way that they treat just you and me, normal people who have different opinions than them and viewers, listeners who have different opinions from them is you just occupy a different narrative silo. And you can't be expected to know the truth. Like, I know. I mean, I have been a speechwriter, my goodness, for two decades. Like, I know what's actually going on here. But you, the poor average American who is being confronted with crazy YouTubers, we just need to fix the system of information delivery.

[Krystal Ball]

Maybe that'll work. I would suggest stop the killing starvation. One way to do it. Yeah. So nobody cares what I think, though some people do. No, I don't think Sarah does. Ah, greetings from my bath, festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money. Getting 5% cash back when I pay in 4. No fees, no interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal. Save the offer in the end ends 1231. See paypal.com promoter points can be redeemed for cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 ever noticed that everyone always wants more of a good thing? More rewards, more savings, more special offers.

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Krystal Ball]

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