← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
11/20/25: Epstein Files Coverup, Bipartisan Epstein Deal, MAGA Revolts On Trump AI Regulation Ban
01:04:19
Loading summary
Transcript167 lines
- [00:00]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [00:09]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [00:15]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [00:19]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [00:36]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is happening now through November 22nd. Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and too faced. Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts.
- [00:54]
Krystal Ball
Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop.
- [00:56]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
Our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here. Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five day fasting mimicking diet works at the cellular level to rejuvenate you from the inside out, providing real results that include fat focused, sustainable weight loss with no injection needed. Next Gen builds on the original prolon with 100% organic soups and teaspoons, a richer taste and ready to eat meals. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute and backed by top medical centers, Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolic health, skin appearance, fat loss and energy. Get 25% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com iheart that's prolonlife.com iheart hey guys, Sager and Krystal here.
- [01:49]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this.
- [01:57]
Saagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:02]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:13]
Saagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com Good morning everybody. Happy Thursday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have? Crystal?
- [02:25]
Krystal Ball
Indeed we do. So a new plot to hide the Epstein files is coming into view. Dems and Republicans also, after voting to release the Epstein files, which was good, come together in an absolutely disgusting, grotesque, corrupt deal. So we'll break those details down for you. Meanwhile, D.C. republicans and Trump himself working overtime to try to block any sort of AI regulation at the state level. You know, we gotta talk about that one. Some shocking new polling on the midterms. We'll break that down for you. Trump's case against Jim Comey is four falling apart spectacularly in an absolutely humiliating fashion. And Ross Barkin is going to join us to break down a number of things that are going on in New York. Specifically was our mom, Donnie. He is actually coming to D.C. to meet with Trump. He also last night showed up at a meeting to block an endorsement of Hakeem Jeffrey's opponent. So lots going on there. And there are a whole bunch of other primary challenges from the left coming in New York City specifically. So super excited to talk to Ross about all of that.
- [03:22]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's exciting. The, the Zoran Arbori's all grown up. He's already blocking endorsem for the blocking endorsements for Hakeem Jeffries challengers. Just tragic to see the world of politics. Thank you to everybody who is signing up BreakingPoints.com to become a premium subscriber. We have been overloaded with new listeners and viewers because of our Epstein coverage and we're very happy to have you. Please support our work if you're able to breakingpoints.com if you're not, no worries. Please just hit subscribe to our YouTube channel and if you're listening to this as a podcast, please send an episode to a friend or rate us 5 stars. It really helps the show grow. But as you said, Tromp has officially signed the new bill. He did it in the dead of night in silence with no cameras. Not exactly something he's known to do. This is the man who will call a press conference in the Oval Office for like we are updating the way that we, you know, have hurricane planes or something and turn it into a one hour long thing.
- [04:20]
Krystal Ball
He could have had the victims there. I mean, that's what Ro Khanna I know at least probably Thomas Massie as well, Marjorie Taylor Greene were suggesting do a signing ceremony, ownership over it, have the survivors there behind you. But no, not his choice.
- [04:32]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes, he signed it late last night. And in fact I was in touch with some of my friends who still cover the White House. They actually were sent home as reporters when the bill was delivered to the Oval and he signed it in private and then they released it only through official channels. This is very rare again for the Trump administration. I can't tell you how many bill signings I attended when I was a White House report. It's very common it's one of the ways that, you know, it kind of turns something into a press conference. And again, he does this all the time for various small little things. So, you know, interesting behavior. Let's go and put this up here on the screen. Then Trump signs the bill authorizing the release of the Epstein files. The actual law text itself is really important. It now says that the attorney general has 30 days to make available unclassified documents related to the disgraced financier and his associate Ghislaine Maxwell. The difficult part is. What did I just say? Unclassified. And already the Attorney General is laying the groundwork for some significant redactions in the eventual release some one month from now. Here's what the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, had to say.
- [05:36]
Krystal Ball
Does the new investigation by the Southern District of New York U.S. attorney prevent the department from releasing all of the remaining files? So we have released 33,000, over 33,000.
- [05:48]
Saagar Enjeti
Epstein documents to the Hill, and we'll.
- [05:50]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
Continue to follow the law and to have maximum transparency.
- [05:56]
Saagar Enjeti
Also, we will always encourage all victims to come forward. So clearly she didn't say no, because the question very specifically, does the new investigation prevent the DOJ from releasing all of those files? Now, this is in combination with Ken Klippenstein. He's got a new report. Let's go and put that up here on the screen. The Epstein bill passes as top officials circulate plans to block transparency. And so what he has been able to reveal is that if you actually read the text of the law, there is a national security concern. Carve out that is inside. HR 4405 requires the attorney General to complete the release of the information, including a DES classified information, to the maximum extent possible. This raises two concerns. First, it may not be feasible to properly undertake an extensive review in such a short period of time. Second, ignores the principle declassification should rest with the agency. So this is exactly the national security argument that he warned about, which would be used to block the disclosure from the DOJ and from the FBI with their hundreds of hundred thousand files or so that are in very good flag from him. What it does represent though, is that just like with JFK or with, you know, UFOs, with anything, just because they put something out doesn't make it true. Just because they put something out doesn't actually mean that it's usually not indicative of even further of a coverup. So that is the flag where we are. I do want to take a moment to celebrate Thomas Massie and Ro Khanna. I Mean, you know, I said that I'm a cynical guy, I don't usually expect anything to really happen here. And I thought it was dead the moment that Trump and all of them started to come after it and they just kept fighting, kept fighting, kept fighting. 427 to 1 in the house of Representatives. Never seen anything like it. Brute force it through the Senate. Even though Mike Johnson and Trump said that the Senate wanted to change it. No senator wanted to be on the record saying that, no, we're not gonna vote against it. And Donald Trump cowed in the dead of night, forced to sign this piece of legislation which he fought tooth and nail for over two months to try to defeat. So things are still possible in this town, folks. I mean, it's amazing to see, honestly. Warms my heart.
- [07:55]
Krystal Ball
I don't know if, for the first.
- [07:56]
Saagar Enjeti
Time in a long time, I don't.
- [07:57]
Krystal Ball
Know if we've ever seen a. I think you have to go back to like John McCain blocking the ACA repeal and replace to think a similar sort of defeat. But this one was so comprehensive. He was looking at, Trump was looking at losing some 100 potentially Republicans. And that's why he ultimately was like, well, geez, I just gotta, I mean, I just gotta. If you can't beat him, you gotta join him. What else can I do? And I'll just try my best to message that really the Democrats are all the bad guys and there's no Republicans and I'm certainly not implicated here. Even though we've already seen the birthday book, we've seen his name littered throughout these files, and we've seen the special treatment that Ghislaine Maxwell is getting down at her Club Fed as well, which is also very indicative of the fact that he's worried about what she could present to the public. So give a lot of credit to everyone that was involved. Ro Khanna, Thomas Massie, first and foremost, Marjorie Taylor Greene, also very impactful on the Democratic side. You have to think, Sagre, you remember when we interviewed Alyssa Slotkin, her line and the official line of the Democratic Party was Epstein is a distraction. Sure, we're interested in it, but this is a distraction from the price of eggs or whatever. Not to say those aren't important issues as well. Of course they are. But Ro Khanna was like a dog with a bone with this thing. He understood, and I think in large part because he goes on shows like ours and goes on all kinds of different podcast shows and goes and is out there in the country as well, he understood that this really struck a nerve that it really went to the core of Donald Trump's brand. The way he had presented himself, not just to the country, but to specifically to his own base. He knew this would be a very difficult issue for him. And that instinct and that insight ultimately paid off. Now, we were never Pollyannaish about thinking that this was gonna be some silver bullet. And now all the truth is gonna come to light. That is not how these things work. They are certainly engaged right now in, I mean, I think they've been engaged in a cover up the whole time. The Trump administration is likely scrubbing the files. They're using this investigation to block things. All they have to do, because the bill says unclassified information, all they have to do is, oh, well, this is classified. Sorry, you can't have it. And those pieces that they don't want to come out will not come out. But you know what, at least, at least we now have a tool. Just like with the JFK bill that was passed in the 90s. It gave researchers and activists a tool to try to force and compel the federal government to come out with documents. And over time we've learned more and more and more. My own personal opinion is, even if it is just like Larry Summers or Bill Clinton or whatever the Democrats are that we get the dirt on, that's fine. I mean, that is a step forward. And I think everybody already sees and knows that Trump was very tied up in these circles in various ways, as he was Jeffrey Epstein's best bud for like an entire decade and his littered name littered throughout the emails that we already have released. So, you know, with all the caveats of the way they're gonna go about trying to scrub this and trying to cover up and cover Trump's ass and all of that, I think we still have to acknowledge that this is an extraordinary against the odds victory and ultimately really, you know, a victory for these survivors. A victory for truth and discovery about foreign influence in our government as well, specifically with regard to the nation of Israel. Not that the media is continuing to like really cover that aspect outside of a few notable examples.
- [11:02]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, they're getting kicking and screaming to that and when they do, they just pearl clutch around it. But we'll get there. As you know, it's a long march in this war. Been covering it since 2018. I went back and saw the very first video ever done on the subject. And look, as you said, you know, even covering stuff up, that in and of itself tells a story, the 911 Commission, the infamous 28 pages, we all knew it was in the pages eventually started leaking out, and soon they became public with the Saudi connection and all that was revealed. And now it's basically part of lawsuits and others against the Saudi government. It put the Obama presidency in a very tough position. Whenever he tried to block that, finding Saudi Arabian government, you know, liable, he literally tried to block it. And the entire United States Senate voted against. So these things do have power. It will take a long time. It's like, you know, again, have covered so many of these things. Just this morning, there's a new CIA report that actually boasted about tricking Congress on JFK. This is from the 1970s, but, I mean, again, look, look, I know at the time when we needed it, it didn't come out. That said, the fact that we still have all this, the truth matters. And yes, even if they do cover up the Israel connection and all that, we can get to that. You know, by the way, we have enough in the public domain already in order to basically say that it's done and dusted in terms of what he was. Even if it's just Larry Summers and the Rothschild family and y. That's actually still a pretty big deal. Yeah. Or JP Morgan or any of these other people. Look at what's happened now with Larry Summers. I'm like, yeah, good. These people should be revealed for who they are.
- [12:32]
Krystal Ball
And think about if a Democrat does win the White House in 2028 and all the dirt has been released on the Democratic side, what you think they're gonna. Then they're gonna be okay. The law compels me to release the rest of what we have with regard to Trump. So if you are just fixated on what was Trump's involvement here, which honestly, I think is somewhat fair, given that he is the President of the United States. You know, this law also makes it so that just with the change of leadership, you don't require any new legislation or anything of the sort to have a tool to again press the government to release additional information. So, huge win here all around. Speaking of Larry Summers, so we covered previously, he has announced he's stepping back from all of his public commitments. He resigned from the OpenAI board. He stepped down from his role crafting economic policy over the center for American Progress. But he is continuing to teach his Harvard classes, or he was yesterday.
- [13:24]
Saagar Enjeti
Now he is no longer.
- [13:25]
Krystal Ball
Oh, he's not.
- [13:25]
Saagar Enjeti
You know, after this video came out.
- [13:27]
Krystal Ball
Oh, really? Oh, I missed that.
- [13:28]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah. Late last night.
- [13:29]
Krystal Ball
So that was. Okay. I missed that. I guess I was that in any case. So he went in front of his class and, you know, explained how much he regretted his interactions with Jeffrey Epstein, which, just a reminder, he was talking to this man up until the day before he was arrested. So this was not like, oh, it was the 2000. I had no idea. I really didn't understand. No, this is after the. After he's a convicted sex criminal, registered sex offender. This is after all of the reporting from Julie K. Brown and others about the extent of his. Of his network and this elaborate global pedophile ring, like all of that is out there. And Larry Summers is using him for advice for how to sleep with this woman who was not only his mentee, but also the daughter of a Chinese party official. So in any case, this is Summers explaining to his class how much he regrets all of these interactions.
- [14:19]
Saagar Enjeti
Some of you will have seen my statement of legrat expressing my shame with respect to what I did in communication with Mr. Epstein, and that I've said that I'm going to step back from public activity, but for a time that I think it's very important to fulfill my teaching obligations. And so with your information, we're going to go forward and talk about the material in the class.
- [14:51]
Krystal Ball
Not the most awkward beginning of a class I could possibly imagine. And the text on the screen because the student surreptitiously recorded this was like, this is how Harvard classes start. Professors apologizing for their Jeffrey Epstein ties.
- [15:02]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes. Well, yeah. So as of late last night, Larry Summers has revealed he will not finish his semester of teaching. As Harvard investigates Epstein ties and looks. You know, maybe I'm just woke because I have a daughter now, but yeah, I mean, could you imagine being a woman in that class or any class being taught by Larry Summers when the Epstein emails are about him trying to leverage his, like, power and connections? Larry Summers, like, hitting on this woman while he's married and then bragging about it to his wingman, Jeffrey Epstein. I'd be like, no, like, get this fucking creep away from my kids, man. I mean, how could you possibly say that this dude can be in a position of any power or influence on young girls in class? Like, no fair. Yeah. You know?
- [15:49]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. I mean, he went to great lengths to be. She wasn't a student, but she was. He described her as, like, his mentee. So he and he talked in the emails about how, like, I don't think she really wants this romantic relationship anymore, but she still needs me for my guidance. And basically, like, I'm in this powerful position. So maybe that just keeps her around, like, actively talking about the way he's exploiting this power dynamic to get in this woman's pants. Really disgusting stuff. And then also, like, I think Larry Summer, in my opinion, Larry Summer should have been drummed down in public life long ago for his complicity and, you know, NAFTA and the bank bailouts and I mean, he's just been at the, as I said before, the scene of like every great economic crime in recent American history. That wasn't enough to push him out, but at least temporarily, there are some repercussions. Woke is back. There are consequence culture. It's here. And you know, fairly so, I would say in the case of Larry Summers. Yeah.
- [16:41]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean, seriously though, there's this whole talk right now amongst a certain group of people that are like, oh, this is like a me too witch hunt. I'm like, is it like. No, for real, though, like, he admitted to trying to cheat on his wife with Jeffrey Epstein, bragged about it as a lecherous creep well into his 60s and leveraging his own power. I don't think that that's like the same as the Aziz Ansari Jezebel article. Right. I mean, and by the way, even whenever it comes to that, I'm like, wait, so are we saying, like, Matt Lauer never should have been, you know, fired? Like, no, I don't think anybody is really saying that.
- [17:11]
Krystal Ball
Okay.
- [17:12]
Saagar Enjeti
What people are saying is that, yeah, I think it went too far or it became a mania or hys. I haven't seen that happen yet with the Epstein case. If anything, it's the opposite, is that there are a lot of people who just openly are able to go on cable television as we'll get to in a little bit, and we're like, oh, he was just a guy, my constituent there, who was texting me. So, yeah, I mean, whenever it comes to this, it's one of those where what's the standard, like, you have to be a full blown convicted criminal, like Epstein was right. In order to be canceled, quote, unquote. I don't know, I just think the whole thing's crazy.
- [17:44]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. Maybe it is an indication we're coming to a healthy place with all of this where we can evaluate the claims against someone on their merits and consider what appropriate consequences are. And it's not just, you know, if there's anything said about you, then you're canceled. And it's not believe all women. And it's also not believe all men. It's like, yeah, okay, we can process these things. We can see the totality of who you are and how long. I mean this was years that he was so, so close with Jeffrey Epstein. I mean it's anyway also he's in.
- [18:13]
Saagar Enjeti
A position of immense power. I just talked about the professor. That's the least of our problems on the board of OpenAI. You want this freak on the board of the. Of chatgpt and of determining standards for national suicide. What we just talked about. What?
- [18:27]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
No.
- [18:27]
Saagar Enjeti
Okay. I mean, come on.
- [18:29]
Krystal Ball
Well, I mean, and I'm like also very sort of selfishly interested in getting him out of this center for American Progress.
- [18:35]
Saagar Enjeti
Right.
- [18:35]
Krystal Ball
Project 2021 effort as well separate and apart from the Jeffrey Epstein piece because of his terrible economic ideology. So in any case, I do have a sub motivation there. I will I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [18:50]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [18:55]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [18:59]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [19:15]
Commercial Announcer
The wait is over. The Nick's Black Friday sale is on now@Knix.com shop early and save up to 60% off site wide. Plus all kinds of limited time daily deals from the number one leak proof brand in North America. Don't miss your chance to save big on innovative intimates like leak proof underwear, wireless bras, shapewear and more. Everything is on sale. Millions have made the switch to NYX's revolutionary period underwear and there's never been a better time for you to try them too. During the Black Friday sale, save up to 60% on super comfy machine washable and stylish leak proof undies. Plus shop the best deals of the year on NYX's best selling assortment of wireless bras. Don't miss this chance to stock up on your NYX favorites or try something new during the NYX Black Friday event. That's knix.com the sale ends December 2nd and sizes will sell out. Go to nix.com that's knix.com it's 5:23pm.
- [20:17]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
One of your kids is asking for a snack. Another is building a fort out of your clean laundry and you're staring at a half empty fridge and thinking what are we even gonna eat tonight? Or you could just hellofresh it with over 80 recipes to choose from every week including kid friendly ones. Even for picky eaters, you'll get fresh ingredients and easy step by step recipes Delivered right to your do no last minute grocery runs. No. What do we even have? Fridge staring. And the best part, you're in total control. Skip a week, pause anytime, pick what works for you. It's dinner on your terms. The kids can even help you cook. Yeah, it's gonna be messy, but somehow they tend to eat the vegetables they made themselves. Try HelloFresh today and get 50% off the first box with free shipping. Go to HelloFresh CA and use promo code MOM50. That's HelloFresh CA promo code MOM50. HelloFresh. HelloFresh, Canada's number one meal kit delivery service.
- [21:18]
Krystal Ball
Let's put a 4 up on the screen. We finally have one other outlet that is doing some reporting on Epstein's Israel connections. So in some of these emails, and this is very interesting, this is from another friend of ours, of course, Branko Marsatich, who does fantastic reporting over at Jackman magazine. And he writes that in these newly released files, it shows Jeffrey Epstein claiming to have been involved in Ehud Barak's 2019 election challenge to Benjamin Netanyahu. He says this well past time to ask questions about the billionaire pedophile's links to Israel. Yeah, here, here on that one. And it's wild. He's actually emailing with Steve Bannon. And one of these emails got a lot of attention because he says something like, now you can understand why Trump stays up at night's wedding when he knows that you and I are in touch. But what the mainstream press, when they reported that one out, what they left out of the equation is that the content was him bragging about how influential he was in Israeli politics. And he's using that to say, look at how influential I am here. That's why Trump has gotta be so stressed about my connection with you and lay up at night. And this was like, again, very close to the time that he ends up being arrested in prison and then dead. So one other subplot story of this though, is that one of the emails that the mainstream press did reproduce, they messed up, it said in it, ehud like Ehud Barack. And they messed up the transcribing that and they put it as chud. So instead of E H u D, multiple news outlets put C H u D. So which totally buries the context of what this was all about. Was that intentional or not? I don't know. You guys can be the judge of that. But very interesting accidental oversight here from the mainstream media, which has still continued to trend that Epstein ties to Israel. Like some. It's fringe anti Semitic conspiracy, even though it's all like documented and reported.
- [23:15]
Saagar Enjeti
I do want to give a shout out to the pod save bros who recently shouted out shout out.
- [23:18]
Krystal Ball
That's right.
- [23:19]
Saagar Enjeti
You know, after Tommy Vitor claimed previously that it was a conspiracy.
- [23:23]
Krystal Ball
Oh, did he? Yeah, yeah.
- [23:24]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean it's one of these where all of these people. I get it, okay. To them it seems icky because it all bubbled up on the bad side of the Internet and with bad right wingers like look, you know, many of us were not speaking out of our ass. The trail of the evidence was actually all there for anybody who wanted to see. It's been there since about 2021. And it doesn't just rely singularly on the Alex Acosta quote. Like if we look at the weapons background and the Khashoggi's and who all of that he was working with and who he was interested in and broadly his own connections to his. The fact that he went to Israel while he was signing his non prosecution agreement. It was all there, okay? It was out in the open and they never wanted to acknowledge it. At this point with the drop site report, it's like done dusted in terms of how connected he was to the state of Israel, but they just can't get there. And this is kind of reminds me of the Cuomo thing you just said with Larry Summers on the merits. Summers should be nowhere because of who he was. Like his own. The sex Epstein stuff is kind of secondary. And for some reason like with Cuomo, everyone was like, oh well, his me too investigation. That's why it's like, no, the nursing home thing alone was enough to say how can we possibly ever trust your judgment? I think that the reason why there's been a lot of like capital D Democrats who are interested in the stories cause they see like it attacks Trump and you know, they don't care about Larry Summers or Bill Clinton at this point. Not should you? But guys like that is kind of the secondary element of it. Now the reason why like any sort of blackmail or any of that matters from Trump to, to Clinton to any of these other people in power is because of the foreign leverage with these governments that he was working with. That's what makes it actionable and actually impactful in terms of Beyond Money or JPMorgan Chase, but brokering governments and leaders and security agreements, that's what puts it in the realm of the public interest in my mind is not just that connection. And so I do think, think, you know, kind of like with JFK or any of these other stories where I think it's easy to sit there and dissect Magic Bullet, but I think it becomes more interesting to zoom out and be like, okay, so why did they kill him? Right. You know, it's like, it's not just about the plot.
- [25:38]
Krystal Ball
Was he pursuing that were such a threat that they had to take him out?
- [25:41]
Saagar Enjeti
My opinion was all about Cuba, right? I know there's a whole Israel secondary part of the JFK stuff. I haven't seen enough to back that up. But in my opinion, it was mostly about Cuba and then eventually became an ideological, like, sphere that morphed into Vietnam. That's why Oliver Stone is obsessed with that, because he had to go fight in Vietnam when he was 18 years old. And his entire life was like, you know, impacted by that. And he became obsessed with that question. And it is. I mean, he described it as one of the most impactful turning points in American history. He's correct about that. You have to go and to look at the consequences. I think same in here. So I think one of the things for all of us is we can't let this part of the story die.
- [26:18]
Krystal Ball
We really can't.
- [26:19]
Saagar Enjeti
Like, it's such. It's so important, you know, to make so that media cannot try to spin this in the direction that they want. Cause it's also to their benefit. Where I've seen this mainstream media thing which is starting to catch on now, which is like, oh, well, there was no big sex blackmail story. I'm like, well, again, I've always said it's not about that per se. It's really about the network and the stuff that he was able to get away with. And then leveraging those connections to money and to power on behalf of multiple foreign governments, including, yes, the state of Israel. Like, that's what it's actually about. So that's my.
- [26:54]
Krystal Ball
You know, I mean, we have, like, you have to be blind at this point not to put some of the puzzle pieces together. Trump, I think we can say definitively now, is very concerned about whatever Ghislaine Maxwell could say. Right? So clearly he would have thought that Jeffrey Epstein knows at least whatever Ghislaine Maxwell knows. And he would. I mean, he was close friends with this man. He knew the level of connections that she. He had. He would have known about the globe trotting and known about all of these influential peoples and people and governments that he was connected to. Like, I think at this point, it would be incredibly naive to not think that Trump believed Epstein had things on him that would be very, very damaging, if not fatal to his political career. And you do have this email from Epstein to Steve Bannon, again, one of Trump's closest confidants, very soon, before he ends up in prison, saying, now you can understand why Trump wakes up in the middle of the night sweating when he hears you and I are friends. And listen, guys, you also have to say, it is in Trump's first administration that Epstein ends up dead. So this is the sort of communication that's going on. Steve Bannon reportedly said before Epstein he thought was the one person who could take down Donald Trump. Epstein ends up in prison and then dead under the first Trump administration. And now his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, is getting Club Fed treatment down with her puppy. And she's like, the warden's her bitch. She can make him do whatever she wants to do. I mean, this is crazy shit, guys. So open your eyes. Nothing is definitively proven, but open your eyes to the picture that has emerged at this point. And I would say that it is an incredibly important line of inquiry to understand how this impacts today. Not what did Trump do in the past. How does this impact Donald Trump and his conduct of foreign policy today? Right now, that is the most important question with all of this.
- [28:53]
Saagar Enjeti
It's just so disgusting. And, yeah, I mean, it's one of those where this is what, again, people, they don't want to zoom in. Like, the point is, is it's about Trump. It's also, it's been going on for 20, 30 years. Like, who wants to know, right? With Israel and all these other foreign governments, for all of these leaders. I mean, I mean, don't forget the British Ambassador to the United States of America was fired because of the Epstein connection. He literally, do you remember in the email, he said, oh, it's a travesty of justice. What's happened to you? He said it was unjust that he was condemned. Back in 2006, we all just. The Prince, Prince Andrew, there was a.
- [29:36]
Krystal Ball
Chastity of justice, but it was in the other direction.
- [29:38]
Saagar Enjeti
Prince Andrew just got stripped of all of his royal titles. And of course, there's people out there like, oh, it's all a witch hunt. I'm like, yeah, maybe the king knows a little bit, something that you and I don't know. Okay, Maybe that's what it is. Just happened to think that. Not to mention the Prince Andrew, or I guess Andrew, we can now call him Andrew Mountbatten. Andrew Mountbatten has all these sketchy Financial dealings, you know, with his wife and leveraging his. It all fits together. For what purpose we don't 100% know yet. So I'm looking forward to some of the future releases regardless of what they cover up because in information there's always power. Let's go to the last story here. This is a five. This is about quote, Democrats are going to come to regret this. After Epstein vote, Trump is ready to attack. So Trump now has directed the DoJ to open an investigation to all the Democrats who are named in the Epstein file files. Fine with me. Cool. All right, let's get it out into court. There is some concern though that by citing an active DOJ investigation that they will actually be able to cover up some of the Epstein stuff in terms of redactions. However, don't forget that even at the end of prosecution that you will still be able to eventually get access to them within this. But it could be a delaying tactic. Regardless though, I mean as we're our last block is a about James Comey. When you have to file stuff in court, you'll learn a lot of stuff.
- [30:58]
Krystal Ball
You learn a lot.
- [30:59]
Saagar Enjeti
And that's something that's not been to the benefit of the Trump administration on multiple different occasions. So I'm looking forward to this no matter what comes of it because we will learn quite a bit.
- [31:08]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, well, he wants to flip it and make it. I mean his language is, oh, this is just all about Democrats. There are no Republicans implicated. And I just think like we're so far past people seeing it through that lens that it's ridiculous. And you know, I even wonder if he really follows through on all of the, you know, all of the bluster that he has here because we're going to talk about the Stacy Plaskett thing. We covered that before, obviously. We covered Larry Summers, et cetera. Republicans really seem to think like Democrats are like desperate to protect Bill Clinton at this point. Like it's fine, like it's okay whatever comes out about him. We're not all that panicked about it. So I have a feeling he's going to have a hard time really going on the offense on this thing after spending so much time and continuing with an active cover up of any potential negative or damning or even just suggestive implications for him himself.
- [31:57]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, you are absolutely correct.
- [32:02]
Krystal Ball
I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [32:06]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [32:11]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to divide people.
- [32:16]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little bit. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [32:31]
Commercial Announcer
The wait is over. The Nick's Black Friday sale is on now at knix.com shop early and save up to 60% off site wide plus all kinds of limited time daily deals from the number one leak proof brand in North America. Don't miss your chance to save big on innovative intimates like leak proof underwear, wireless bras, shapewear and more. Everything is on sale. Millions have made the switch to NYX's revolutionary period underwear and there's never been a better time for you to try them too. During the Black Friday sale, save up to 60% on super comfy machine, washable and stylish leak proof undies. Plus shop the best deals of the year on NYX's best selling assortment of wireless bras. Don't miss this chance to stock up on your NYX favorite or try something new during the Nick's Black Friday event. That's knix.com the sale ends December 2nd and sizes will sell out. Go to nyx.com that's kn I X.com.
- [33:31]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
It'S 5:23pm One of your kids is asking for a snack. Another is building a fort out of your clean laundry and you're staring at a half empty fridge and thinking what are we even gonna eat tonight? Or you could just hello fresh with over 80 recipes to choose from every week, including kid friendly ones. Even for picky eaters, you'll get fresh ingredients and easy step by step recipes delivered right to your door. No last minute grocery runs, no. What do we even have? Fridge staring. And the best part? You're in total control. Skip a week, pause anytime. Pick what works for you. It's dinner on your terms. The kids can even help you cook. Yeah, it's gonna be messy, but somehow they tend to eat the vegetables they made themselves. Try HelloFresh today and get F50% off the first box with free shipping. Go to HelloFresh CA and use promo code YUM50. That's HelloFresh CA promo code YUM50. HelloFresh CA. HelloFresh, Canada's number one meal kit delivery service.
- [34:33]
Saagar Enjeti
Speaking then of Stacy Plaskett and the corrupt dealings going on in the House of Representatives, the People's House. Our great representatives, the founders conceived of the great civilian legislators who would rise up amongst its constituents, come to washing, work on our behalf. And after this Democratic representative from the US Virgin Islands was caught literally live texting Jeffrey Epstein in the House of Representatives in the middle of a meeting. Her defense is, I was simply texting with my constituent. And that has now been embraced by her colleagues to help cover her up. Let's take a listen. I believe that Jeffrey Epstein had information, and I was gonna get information to get it. The truth. Truth.
- [35:16]
Krystal Ball
Having a friendship with him is not.
- [35:19]
Saagar Enjeti
Something that I would deem to have.
- [35:23]
Krystal Ball
If individuals are not involved in illegal.
- [35:26]
Saagar Enjeti
Activity, extending his criminal enterprise or his.
- [35:31]
Krystal Ball
Financial enterprise or all of those things, I think that we need to look.
- [35:35]
Saagar Enjeti
At what people are doing moving forward.
- [35:38]
Krystal Ball
Wait, let me just better understand that. What is that point? Because at the time, he wasn't a secret offender and it had been detailed.
- [35:43]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
All the sexual abuse.
- [35:44]
Krystal Ball
There are a lot of people who.
- [35:45]
Saagar Enjeti
Have done a lot of crimes.
- [35:46]
Krystal Ball
Her texts with Jeffrey Epstein were not illegal, but in your view, were they appropriate?
- [35:52]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, Stacy Plaskett is not accused of violating any house rule, any law, any statute, and without even going to the ethics committee, much less a court, they want to arraign her on some charges based on a newspaper article that she did something lawful, however ill advised it may have been. She took a phone call from one of her constituents. Is his position that anytime Jeffrey Epstein got somebody on the phone and he got a lot of people on the phone, that person is suddenly guilty? That sounds like guilt by association. That sounds like collective guilt. Collective guilt. Guilt by. I'm like, yeah, yes. Again, am I just the only guy who won't meet with convicted sex offenders? For real, though, like, you know, if I don't get it, these politicians, all these other people. Also, you know, when you meet politicians, especially the ones where I. It's not some like the. It's not usually brokered by the pal and the other person. There's usually a bunch of staff involved and they do background checks or at least cursory Google searches on the people that you're ostensibly supposed to be meeting with. By the way, he has her phone number. And did you hear her defense? A lot of people are convicted of crimes like what?
- [37:02]
Krystal Ball
What? This is one of these where it's like, you just gotta come clean.
- [37:05]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes.
- [37:06]
Krystal Ball
You gotta say, listen, he was incredibly influential in the Virgin Islands. I mean, that's the truth.
- [37:11]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, he was one of my richest constituents.
- [37:13]
Krystal Ball
Probably their richest constituent. Certainly one of. And there were incred. Like, it was incredibly interconnected between the political class of Virgin Islands and Jeffrey Epstein. And so, you know, I mean, I think she could say that. And then she could say, you know, because of his long dealings with Trump, I Thought he might have something interesting. Okay, I get that. But, like, to pretend like, the other thing is she said this thing about, oh, we weren't friends, but the text messages are extremely friendly. He's telling her how great she looks up there, and she's like, oh, hurry up. I'm up next. You gotta give me something, etc. The tenor of the text messages is that this was not their only exchange by far and that they were actually very friendly. So. So I think at this point, you just have to say this was a horrible lapse in judgment. But I was just trying to get some information that would be useful because I knew his long relationship with Trump, et cetera, and apologize and move on. But for her to continue to double down and then for her colleagues to come to her rescue, like, this is really pretty appalling.
- [38:17]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's right. And why we started with that is just to give you, all of you, into how this great town of our work is that there were supposed to be a censure of her and of GOP Congressman Corey Mills, who we will also get to here in a little bit for his own disgusting behavior.
- [38:38]
Krystal Ball
Unbelievable.
- [38:39]
Saagar Enjeti
And what ended up happening is a little handshake among friends where the House Republican leadership met with the Democratic leadership, and they go, look, we won't go after your guy if you don't go after. After our guy. And they all shook hands, and we just had a couple cocktails at the. At the Capitol Hill Club.
- [38:57]
Krystal Ball
They say bipartisan.
- [38:59]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, they say bipartisanship is it. You cover for our girl, we'll cover for your boy. Right?
- [39:04]
Krystal Ball
That's.
- [39:04]
Saagar Enjeti
That's what it's all about, folks. It's just all about making sure we just sweep it under the rug and we all just continue like friends as normal. And Anna Paulina Luna, GOP congresswoman, actually revealed some of this on the floor at the House of Representatives, putting it all into view. Here's what she had to say. For what purpose does the gentle lady from Florida seek recognition?
- [39:23]
Krystal Ball
I have a parliamentary inquiry.
- [39:27]
Saagar Enjeti
The gentle lady from Florida will state her inquiry.
- [39:30]
Krystal Ball
I was wondering if the speaker of the House of Representatives can explain why leadership on both sides, both Democrat and Republican, are cutting back end deals to cover up public corruption in the House of Representatives for both Republican and Democrat members of Congress.
- [39:42]
Saagar Enjeti
Gentlelady has not stated a proper parliamentary inquiry.
- [39:46]
Krystal Ball
Thank you very much. But I think the American people know what happened tonight.
- [39:51]
Saagar Enjeti
So we go through Corey Mills. You guys want to know about him? Let's go and put this one next one up here on the screen. I mean, you got to go read through this. Ms. United States files restraining order against Corey Mills. Do you want to go through some of the accusations?
- [40:04]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. I mean, buckle up. So this guy basically is disgusting, abusive creep, allegedly. And also incredibly corrupt with his international arms dealing business. Business. So first way that he came to the public's attention as a potential abusive asshole was there was a police call from his girlfriend here in D.C. initially alleging domestic violence. Now, when the police showed up, she had bruises, but she recanted her story. Okay. Apparently, after that hit the news, his other girlfriend down in Florida, she a former Miss USA pageant queen, she sees that he's having this relationship in D.C. and is like, dude, we're supposed to be together. What the hell? And breaks up with him. He continues allegedly to harass her for months, threatening her, threatening her new, new boyfriend, threatening also to release explicit images that have been shared in the context of their relationship. And lo and behold, drop site. Our friends over at drop site, of course, did the first report. They were the first ones to get their hands on these text messages that he was just relentlessly sending to her and truly disgusting and incredibly threatening things. And so she filed, ended up filing a restraining order. That restraining order was granted. So he is not allowed to contact her, not allowed to be anywhere around her. So the judge found it credible enough. And, you know, it's a relatively significant bar actually to be meet to get a judge to believe that you're in sort of like imminent danger of harm. So that's who this dude is. Then in addition to that abusive, harassing, stalking behavior over months. In addition to that, he also is accused of corrupt dealings with this, his arms dealing business where he has government contracts, in spite of the fact that he is himself a member of Congress. So there's also a lot of questions about that. There also were questions of potentially him misrepresenting his military service and stolen valor. Now, he denies all of these claims, et cetera. So this is all alleged, but he's really the total package, this guy. Just a great, great, honest man, seemingly, and delight to be around on every level. In the context of reporting this out, Dropsite spoke to a number of his former romantic partners. And by the way, this guy was married up until like just a couple years ago too, by the way. Anyway, they spoke to a number of his romantic partners, and two of them separately described him independently as a psychopath. So just so we're aware of who we're dealing with and who Democrats agreed in this corrupt deal And Republicans agreed in this corrupt deal to cover up for.
- [42:54]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's right. And like you said, there is the allegations against him for federal contracting. There are the stolen valor, actually allegations that have been levied against him. And there's this allegation about misconduct, dating, violence. Let's go. You guys want a little preview before, shall we, into who these great legislators are? I mean, this is a screenshot.
- [43:17]
Krystal Ball
So this is messages with the D.C. girlfriend who called the cops for assault and then recanted his story. And this is where he is effectively pimping her out to one of his friends, allegedly. And he says, and you'll be a good girl and do anything he wants or asks. Of course, I aim to please. She says, he can have you as many times as he wants, any way he wants and finish anywhere he chooses. Right, babe? Yes, baby. And what can you not do? Won't say no to anything Chris wants. Yes, babe. And drop site reported on this as well, that actually the male friend that was involved with this was like disgusted by him pimping out his girlfriend in this manner. So listen, adults can do whatever, consensual, et cetera, but we're talking about someone who's accused of assault, who's accused of stalking, who's accused of harassment over months, had to have a restraining order issued and that is the person that they're covering up for.
- [44:08]
Saagar Enjeti
He denies it, I guess, even though the read the message.
- [44:13]
Krystal Ball
He claimed the videos that he was threatening to release of her were her baking cookies.
- [44:19]
Saagar Enjeti
Makes sense.
- [44:20]
Krystal Ball
Judge didn't buy it, do you?
- [44:23]
Saagar Enjeti
You make up your mind for yourself, shall you? So, yeah, that's what our great representatives came together this week to cover up to Stevie Plaskett, who was texting Jeffrey Epstein live in the middle of a hearing. She says a lot of people are convicted of crimes. He was just one of my constituents. Jamie Raskin and Hakeem Jeffries basically then do a deal with the Republicans when both don't get to be censured. And so I just think if you really want to see how it all works, who gets protected.
- [44:51]
Krystal Ball
But Rashida Tlaib, she got censured for saying, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
- [44:55]
Saagar Enjeti
It's one of those where, I don't know, I very rarely genuinely feel like sick to my stomach. And I'm not naive. I've lived here for a long time, I get it. Stuff that all goes behind the scenes. But when you all breaks out into the open and the way that they just nakedly cover up for One another. And again, these are supposed to be our representatives. And this is what they're spending their time not only doing on our dime, whenever they're, they're here in Washington, this is what they're doing to preserve each other's party reputation. Because at the end of the day, that's all that really matters to them. It's disgusting. So let's go to another one because this also just demonstrates the kind of, you know, the criminality and the narcissism that dominates at the highest levels of American politics. Let's go ahead and put B5 up here on the screen. Been wanting to cover this for quite a long time. So there was this recent retirement of a congressman, Representative Chuy Garcia. He timed his retirement this month in a way that advantage his chosen successor. This eventually led to a potential rebuke from his own representatives. Democrats in the House of Representatives. It was a reprimand. It doesn't carry any formal penalty. But what happened is he announced his retirement this month, one day after the filing deadline for candidates had closed. That way, his chief of staff was the only candidate who knew about his retirement, had enough time to collect 2,500 signatures to run for the seat. So basically boxed out the ability of anybody to be able to actually open and run. And this is supposed to be some progressive who believes in democracy, okay? It's like all they care about is themselves is passing the torch chosen. They don't give a shit about the voters. It's completely rigged. And what's so disgusting about it is that when I can never say this woman's name, Glusenkamp Perez. When Glusenkamp Perez, this congresswoman, where is she from Washington? Tries to censor. She gets blown up by the Democratic Party establishment, by the way, including a lot of progressives and others who were like, this is the improper way to go. Why can we not cover, Just call this out for what it is. This is a type of crap that happens every single day all over, you know, in D.C. and the way they rig the rules and the petitions and ballot signature, challenging, but this is one of the most overt that I had ever seen. He claimed he was retiring abruptly because of his wife's declining health, but he gave a heads up to his chief of staff so that they could take the seat. And if you're, you know, that person who lives in this district, like, you should feel outraged, you should feel betrayed. This is the state of Illinois, which is a machine state. And you know, in his defense, he's probably like, yeah, people do this shit all the time, right? What's wrong with that? Well, you know, what's wrong with it is we are supposed to live in an ostensible democracy.
- [47:48]
Krystal Ball
And again, and this is the party that's supposed to care about democracy as well. And, you know, I think a lot of progressives, like Chuy Garcia sort of generally voted in a progressive manner. I think he had a lot of. Has a lot of friends in the caucus. So they sort of felt bad on a personal level. But it's like, put that. You gotta put that aside. You know, you gotta. Okay, you can say like, I like his legislative record, but this was unacceptable there. That's not that hard to do. And one of the people who gave a long, elaborate explanation for why she opposed Marie Gluzenkamp Perez, who, by the way, I'm not a fan of Marie Gluzenkamp Perez, but on this one, on the merits, she's just correct. But AOC put out this long tortured tweet about why she thinks this is the wrong move at the wrong time. Just to give. I'll give her rationale. We can put this up on the screen. She says, this is how I feel about it. Oh, my gosh, this is Ackman length. Guys. Buckle up. I loved machine politics and got to office defeating an incumbent who got in that way. How? However, there are quite a few problems with choosing to grind the entire House to a halt to force all 435 members across the country to do a rush vote on this one individual instance of many, mind you. One, why is it that this objection wasn't brought up until now? The author had no problem when Bill Posey did it. Or even earlier this year when a member's account was tweeting postmortem for an election. The standard of this resolution is unevenly applied. And choosing to enforce it by privileged resolution for some. But other others does open legitimate questions of rationale or motivation. Why not care about this for them, but care about it now? The question has not been answered. Okay, well, maybe we start the trend of caring about this now. That would be a positive, wouldn't it? Okay, number two, this is why the Ethics Committee exists. Establishing this process as precedent will mean all 435 members of the House will be forced to vote on a slew of individual member indiscretions determined by political convenience or whoever's in the majority. I don't think it's the best use of my constituents time to sort through the details of every individual matter of a person acting out of accordance with the steam the office once a week for a float for vote under rushed circumstances. The House has an investigatory structure of this for a reason. If there was a complaint filed with ethics or an investigation buried and then ignored, I'd understand that's not the case here. 3. These specific kinds of resolutions can only be executed on a partisan basis because the mechanism of seeking privilege on this can only move forward with GOP leadership's blessing. That means partisan enforcement. I do not want to open the door to that. Make it nonpartisan or don't bother. That's why the Ethics committee is structured the way it is. It is for this resolution was dropped on a fly out day to begin voting on a fly in on a fly in day. Giving people no time to review the details of the matter while they're home in district on a weekend On a matter of local politics that nobody had familiarity with. It's really. That's so not true. We had familiarity with it. It's not hard to understand. This was not a complicated situation. In any case, people are genuinely not familiar with the details of the surprise vote because this is the kind of thing brought to ethics precisely to investigate and confess firm details. So bunch of like process related concerns about, oh well, we have this other committee that's supposed to handle this and this wasn't the time or the place. Even though I totally loathe machine politics, but I don't even really know about this anyway. I mean it just, I think it all just rings very hollow ultimately, like on the merits. What he did was wrong. Why is that so hard to say? Like, okay, maybe you don't like that this is always the process going forward and probably won't be, but would it be such a bad thing if you did have the precedent set that when people handpick their successors and rig the primary process to guarantee that their hand picked successor is effectively the next congressperson for the district, I don't think that's a terrible precedent to set that you vote on those things and you express your disapproval as a body that this is not the way democracy is supposed to work.
- [51:17]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, the process shit, it's maddening. Just like first of all, who are you? Are you mis process you supposedly stood up against machine politics, politics and all of that, or do you stand for representation at the end? Like that's what it's all about, right? That's what it's supposed to be. And so you've become the creature which you allegedly ran against. I ran against it's like, okay, now you're taking part in the exact same thing. Actually, it would be a phenomenal precedent to always censure anybody who ever did anything like this. That's literally, that would be one of the best things. It would be something that allegedly, again, you know, Democrats, they talk so much about democracy and this was one of the reasons, in my belief that the whole Jan6 attack on Trump didn't work, is they were like, well, you guys didn't even have a primary. You guys covered up Biden. So we're supposed to listen to you on lectures about democracy? No, we don't believe that you believe in democracy at all. That was a huge critique. And then, look, is everybody in America gonna hear about this stuff? No, I don't think so. But it's enough. It's enough of a signal that protecting the party is the only thing that matters. Matters still to a lot of these people. And you know, anything process oriented just bullshit in my opinion. Because that's what the establishment does when they have, when they've lost on something, then they critique on the process. That's what they do.
- [52:32]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, agreed. I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.
- [52:39]
Saagar Enjeti
Don'T trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.
- [52:45]
Krystal Ball
It feels like it's trying to, to divide people.
- [52:49]
Saagar Enjeti
We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.
- [53:04]
Commercial Announcer
The wait is over. The Knicks Black Friday sale is on now@Knix.com shop early and save up to 60% off site wise. Plus all kinds of limited time daily deals from the number one leak proof brand in North America. Don't miss your chance to save big on innovative intimates like leak proof underwear, wireless bras, shapewear and more. Everything is on sale. Millions have made the switch to nyx's revolutionary period underwear. And there's never been a better time for you to try them too. During the Black Friday sale, save up to 60% on super comfy machine washable and stylish leak proof underwear. Plus shop the best deals of the year on NYX's best selling assortment of wireless bras. Don't miss this chance to stock up on your Knicks favorites or try something new during the NYX Black Friday event. That's knix.com the sale ends December 2nd and sizes will sell out. Go to nyx.com that's kn I x.com.
- [54:05]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
It's 5:23pm One of your kids is asking for a snack. Another is building a fort out of your clean laundry. And you're staring at a half empty fridge and thinking what are we even gonna eat tonight? Or you could just hellofresh it. With over 80 recipes to choose from every week, including kid friendly ones. Even for picky eaters, you'll get fresh ingredients and easy step by step recipes delivered right to your door. No last minute grocery runs, no. What do we even have? Fridge staring. And the best part, you're in total control. Skip a week, pause anytime, pick what works for you. It's dinner on your turn. The kids can even help you cook. Yeah, it's gonna be messy, but somehow they tend to eat the vegetables they made themselves. Try hellofresh today and get 50% off the first box with free shipping. Go to HelloFresh CA and use promo code Dinner50. That's HelloFresh CA promo code Dinner50. HelloFresh CA HelloFresh, Canada's number one meal kit delivery service.
- [55:06]
Saagar Enjeti
Turning now to AI. So I did update all of you that in the new, you know, funding structure for the government, the Republic were trying to insert some language of regulating states, making sure that they are not allowed to regulate AI. Well now this has become a full fledged fight from the Trump administration and it was especially had gasoline poured on the fire after Jensen Huang, Elon Musk, Greg Brockman from OpenAI all were at the White House for the Saudi state dinner and the three of them apparently met with Donald Trump and are continuing to to push this ban on states from being able to regulate AI. There is a new report, let's put this up here on the screen. From the information that the Trump administration is working on an executive order to try and to foil state AI regulation. This comes on the heels of Trump himself actually putting out a truth to this effect Again after meeting with all of these AI executives, you can see from the truth he says investment AI is helping to make the US economy the hottest in the world world over. Regulation by states is threatening to undermine this growth engine. Some states are even trying to embed DEI ideology into AI models producing woke AI. Remember black George Washington? We must have one federal standard instead of a patchwork of 50 state regulatory regimes. We can do this in a way that protects children and prevents censorship. So obviously a lot of this is being pushed hard by the AI companies specifically because they do not want individual states where they have to comply with different regulations. Of course, you know, it's definitely to their benefit and I think this is the whole ball Game. Because when you see, like, the state of California, obviously, where all of these people are headquartered, that's what they're actually terrified about is safety standards and others that would require them to comply in a certain way. But I think more broadly, this is really about control, because these people want to become gods. They say it out in the open. Dario literally says, none of you are gonna work in five years. Elon, very recently. What did he say? He's like, all of you are gonna be phenomenally rich and very happy. I mean, it's the World Economic Forum meme. You will own nothing and you will be happy. We promise you'll be rich. Wink, wink.
- [57:18]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, we don't have any plans for happy.
- [57:19]
Saagar Enjeti
We don't have plans for that, but we promise that you will. Yeah, we promise you will be rich. And we're like, okay, cool. You know, why should I take your word for it? Exactly. And I do want to get. Give honestly a good amount of credit. There are some states, even Republican states, that are standing up. But first, let's listen to Trump himself on the issue. C1, please. Let's take a listen. We will work closely with friends and partners like those in this room to build the largest, most powerful, most innovative AI ecosystem in the world. And we are going to work it so that you'll have a one approval process, not have to go through 50 states in the United States. You know, you can't go through 50 states. You have to get one approval. 50 states is a disaster because you have one woke state and you have to do all woke. You'll be back into the woke business. We don't have woke anymore in this country. It's virtually illegal. But you'll have a couple of wokesters, and we don't want to do that. We want to get the AI done. Bunch of wokesters in charge over there of AI. I mean, look at. Listen, I'm not going to say woke, AI or whatever of that is not. Not a issue. But I think it actually is one of those things that belies the problem, which is. Yeah, because they get to program whatever they want, including political and cultural ideology, into the AI and that has massive effects for everything. So, yeah, not just culture, race, but, oh, suicide. The one that I'm hands down the most concerned about. Pornography, sports betting. I told you all this shit is coming. It's already here. The Microsoft copilot literally is running ads on the NFL Network and be like, Microsoft copilot will help you do your fantasy team, which is a wink, wink to sports. The Most degenerate behavior. That's all they're trying to do, is to make it just even more addictive, make it integral and essential. And that's why it does need regulation. And if the states are the only people who are gonna stand up for it, good. You know, that's a good thing. Because, look, I mean, this is all moving so quick, quickly, with so much money, and the ambition for control has never been more overstated by leaders of an industrial revolution. Literally never. Even if you look back, you know, to the origins, a lot of the times, the people who were in charge even of the railroads or the factories, any of that stuff, they were always trying to pitch it, yes, as good for themselves, but they're like, look at all this benefit to humanity. I don't even think that they try this time for any of the benefits that are supposedly there. It's pretty out in the open. They want to become trillionaires, literally. They want to become transhumanists. And they. Their. Their plan is to put everybody out of work and to roll up the riches of the nation into their selves. Sorry.
- [60:05]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, they. They. The only reason they really have to put up with us now is two things. First of all, they need workers, and second of all, they need people to buy stuff. But already, and Ryan was pointing this out, like, the consumer economy is so skewed towards the wealthy that they barely need most of the population just to keep the, like, consumer economy, economy going. They want to make you irrelevant. I mean, this is the main event of Trump administration 2.0. There's a lot going on. There's a lot that's consequential. I'm not saying it's not. This is the main event. This is what you need to keep your eye on, because this is truly, like, they're going for complete and total control in a way that has never been possible before in human history. How do you think it's going to go for democracy or for society at large? If you have one of these companies achieve superhuman intelligence and be able to truly get rid of most of the workforce? How do you think this is all gonna go? Think of the level of control right now. We're talking about, like, before the show started. If you ask Grok, who is more fit, Elon Musk or LeBron James, Grok will tell you Elon Musk is more physically fit than LeBron James. And that is, like, literally, you can go and look right now at the answers that it will give you. Okay, so this is the level of megalomania. And we're gonna hand this incredible power, like global power and control to this handful or single individual, totally psychotic. This is insane. And so Trump, he was on the ropes, he was being sued, and he had all these criminal cases against him. He wanted to get back in the White House to make all of his problems go away. He changed his position on a number of things. He threw fully in with the tech oligarchs, who, you know, there's an idea that these tech bro types were more on the Democratic Party side. And I think, like, socially liberally, that's true. Especially in the Obama era, there was a real close symbiosis. They let all their mergers go through, etc. But they have deeply authoritarian instincts. They're like, move fast and break things Ethereum. That means they don't think there should be any Democratic checks on what they're allowed to do. So even though the Trump tech world marriage was kind of an odd fit to begin with, it makes sense when you consider a guy who has zero respect for norms, institutions, traditions, et cetera, and who is an authoritarian with a tech world, which is similarly egotistical, and think that they should be able to rule everything and run everything and have absolutely no checks. And so you had this coming together in this Trump administration, in this Trump campaign. Elon, of course, gave more than $250 million. You had them involved in picking JD Vance as a vice president. Peter Thiel has always been very influential, bringing all these people together, the inauguration, they're all there. You see these repeated dinners where they're there, they're sucking up to Trump. This is the main event of the Trump administration. And so I think I would not be surprised at all if he signs an executive order that says, we're gonna sue you. Our Justice Department's gonna sue you if you try to rein this in even a little bit, because every single move he's made is to just completely unleash this thing and hope for the best. And Trump doesn't give a shit about anything or anyone. He's happy to suck up his crypto riches and let his oligarch friends do whatever the hell they want, want. And he does not give a shit about whether or not you have a job in the future, about even whether human society lasts beyond his life, which is a genuine question if we continue in this direction. So I think from the immediate effects in terms of what it does to all of our brains and the sort of the degenerate behavior as Sager describes it, I think those are genuine concerns to the way it's already spiking our electricity bills, the way it's destroying water systems, the way it's degrading our environment to the medium to longer term. We already see the job loss kicking in to the more existential threats of what this means for our democracy and for human civilization altogether. We need to come together and fight against this with everything we have. We need people who are like across the aisle, cross partisan, cross ideological coalition who care about the future of humanity and want to put some checks on these people because they are absolutely out of control.
- [64:32]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah. And I mean the way they sell it is like, well, we gotta beat China and all of that. And it's like, look, and I recently said this, I did a podcast with the Bloomberg guys over at Odd Lots because they asked me about that and I said the technology is not the same thing as the companies. Right. Because the point around this, let's say in terms of our objection, is specifically about the monopolization and the control by single individuals. And yes, I know it's a meme that I only care about sports betting or we. To be honest, the one that I care about the most is mental health is suicide is the. When I read those transcripts of those kids who are interacting with ChatGPT and being like, hey, you know about advising about how to hang himself with nooses and notes that combined. Emily sent us a study yesterday about how short term video consumption consumption has nuked cognition. If you have a society which is deracinated through vice, which I focus on, through which is illiterate or functionally illiterate and not doesn't know how to think for itself, which increasingly short term, short form video content consumption and outsourcing knowledge to ChatGPT, put those together, you are basically a meat sack vessel who is using opiate of some kind, you know, in order to numb your pain and then outsourcing all of your thinking to this like godlike machine which has no qualms about validating where you at not trying to help you and can encourage you to kill yourself. Oh, and by the way, that includes states where there is assisted suicide, which Sam Altman literally said, if it's legal, yes, we would direct you. I cannot think of anything more dystopian like the suicide thing and the mental health stuff, the pornography again, I mean.
- [66:16]
Krystal Ball
Think about it like mass surveillance too. Mass surveillance, we rarely talk about that.
- [66:20]
Saagar Enjeti
So you take a society, you pump them full of weed and alcohol and gambling and make it so that socialization itself is bad. And then you Create this chat bot which will fulfill all of your fantasies to make sure that you never leave. What do you think is gonna happen? Right? I mean, that's the stuff that I'm the most. 10, 15 times more worried about than anything else. And the sick part is it's good for their business because it means that you're gonna sit there and you're just gonna keep typing and typing and it's gonna be the most. I mean, already people are addicted to their phones now. Make, you know, romantic relationships into that. It's bad. And, yeah, like, that is where the concern about regulation and democratic input and making sure that, you know, Sam Altman isn't the only person or Elon or any of these other people they're trying to follow up. You cannot allow these people to do it.
- [67:04]
Krystal Ball
They're trying to colonize our money even to an even greater extent than they already have, trying to colonize our minds and strip us of our genuine humanity. I mean, that's what, like, the capitalist class has always sort of seen us just as like meat sacks and widgets to plug into their business as and how they see fit. But with this technology that becomes increasingly possible where they can just render us, they don't have to care about us at all. They can just render us irrelevant completely. So, yeah, when Elon prom, oh, we're all gonna be. So I don't think I would. I don't think I would take him at face value with that. Go look at Elon's history of how his promises ultimately were. How did Dogeco tell me about that one? How much money did we save in Doge? How did that work out? I mean, this man, whatever, all of them are none of them. There's no human on the planet that should be trusted with this level of power. More Perfect Union has been doing really great on the ground, reporting about the impact of these data centers and also the community push pushback against these data centers. And I think this is a very important part of this fight because it's the part that's the most visible in people's communities. The rest of it, the chat bots, the videos, it's sort of insidious, right? Like, it's not that different from just being able to Google stuff. I think parents a lot of times don't really understand the way that kids might be using ChatGPT or Grok or other LLMs. So it's a little bit more sort of under the radar. Whereas the data centers are incredibly visible. They're having. Having this big Immediate impact in communities. They're having this big, immediate impact on people's electric bills. So I think it's a very, very important part of the fight. They recently did a video about the impact of one of these data centers. This is C2. Let's go ahead and listen to this.
- [68:40]
Saagar Enjeti
I grew up here and I wanted my kids to be able to do the same. And we welcomed Meta, which opened a data center in our town.
- [68:45]
Krystal Ball
We were behind an 18 wheeler once and it backed up and we almost got killed.
- [68:50]
Saagar Enjeti
My eye.
- [68:51]
Krystal Ball
I had to go map those people out. She'll say Meta's stupid. She just doesn't like it and I don't like it. We've been there for like, since I was alive and Puppet was alive. So I don't really like that. We're gonna have to move.
- [69:03]
Saagar Enjeti
We went to Holly Ridge, Louisiana, where Meta's new Manhattan sized data center is being built. Meta's new ads claim these communities welcomed data centers, but residents painted a very different picture. We had no voting on it, no.
- [69:17]
Krystal Ball
Community meet, no nothing.
- [69:20]
Saagar Enjeti
It was done all under the table.
- [69:22]
Krystal Ball
And when it was said and done, there was nothing nobody could do.
- [69:25]
Saagar Enjeti
You're planning to leave? I've been here 81 years. I can't stay here with nobody I can talk to. My mom has been out here all her life, 82 years. She's really not happy about it, but does want to leave too. Do you think they care about the people that live here?
- [69:42]
Krystal Ball
No, I sure don't.
- [69:45]
Saagar Enjeti
Residents emphasize the increased traffic violence from Meta's truck. I dug through police reports and found a 600% increase in vehicle crashes on the roads surrounding Meta's construction site in the last nine months. The playground at the front of the school, they're not letting y' all play on that, right?
- [69:59]
Krystal Ball
No. Meta trucks don't watch out. If they try to stop, they will direct into the gate. And that's why they're saying we shouldn't go out there and all that, because there's too many wrecks and Metatron and they could crash. I really love that playground.
- [70:18]
Saagar Enjeti
Do you wish you could play there?
- [70:19]
Krystal Ball
Yes.
- [70:20]
Saagar Enjeti
Residents also shared their distrust in the quality of their water and the lack of support from elected officials to address it.
- [70:26]
Krystal Ball
My neighbor was washing my clothes and.
- [70:29]
Saagar Enjeti
Messed up a whole load of whites.
- [70:31]
Krystal Ball
Because it come out stained from that brown water.
- [70:34]
Saagar Enjeti
Do you feel like it's safe to drink?
- [70:36]
Krystal Ball
No, I buy water.
- [70:37]
Saagar Enjeti
Have you heard anything about them addressing that? Are they. No. No. Have you gotten any information about the project at all from anybody?
- [70:45]
Krystal Ball
None at all, except on the Internet.
- [70:47]
Saagar Enjeti
And on my Facebook.
- [70:49]
Krystal Ball
The data center is the size of Manhattan. And these, you know, tech companies have so much money to throw around. I mean, talk about the influence of money in politics. Like, that's why these things are going up everywhere with very little from the politicians pushing. But at the ground level in the communities, and I say this, living in a community that is having a number of battles over these data centers myself, there is a huge level of pushback. More Perfect Union did another video that I really encourage you in partnership with hey, John Russell on Mingo County, West Virginia, one of the poorest counties in the entire country. Former coal, I mean, still coal country. But obviously a lot of the coal jobs have gone away economically devastated. And the political officials decided at the state level really to locate this data center there. And you have a bunch of residents who are furious about. But their governor and their legislators in West Virginia pass a law limiting the amount of local control that you even have. So even if your community doesn't want this data center there, they can just come over the top and put it there against your wishes. So I think, like I said, I think this is a very important part of the fight because it's so visible and there's so much pushback across the board, whether on the left or the right. There are reasons to hate these things going in your town 100%.
- [72:01]
Saagar Enjeti
And like I said, I want to give a shout out to some governors, including some who I'm personally beefing with at the moment. Let's go ahead and put this up here on the screen. Listen, I'm a straight shooter whenever it comes to these. Ron DeSantis actually is speaking out. He's saying stripping states of jurisdiction to regulate AI is a subsidy to big tech and prevents states from protecting against online censorship of political speech, predatory applications that target children, violations of IP rights, data center intrusions on power and water resources. The rise of AI is the most significant economic culture shift occurring at the moment. Denying the people the ability to channel these technologies in a productive way via self government constitutes federal government overreach and less technology companies run wild. Not acceptable. Agree. Endorse. Go to the next one, please. This is from Governor Spencer Cox over at Utah says Governor DeSantis is correct. States must be able to regulate the tools of AI that could severely impact our kids, our families, our constitutional rights, our security. We've already made the mistake of allowing social media companies to destroy our children's mental, mental health, tear our country apart. Let's not do it again. And so last one C6 just to show you, I mean, this is bipartisan and it's all over the place. Some of the most populous states in the country, Pennsylvania lawmakers bipartisan coalition are outraged at the federal attempt to prevent states from regulating AI. So I expect some of the states to rise up and to try. But if Trump does sign an executive order, there'll be a lot of litigation. We'll continue to track the story.
- [73:38]
Krystal Ball
You know what? A girl's best friend is not diamonds her lawyers.
- [73:42]
Saagar Enjeti
From executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a.
- [73:45]
Krystal Ball
Fiery new legal drama.
- [73:46]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
It's our own boutique women representing women.
- [73:49]
Saagar Enjeti
You you can't afford to miss.
- [73:51]
Krystal Ball
Make it r showtime, ladies.
- [73:54]
Saagar Enjeti
Stand up straight and breeze into that.
- [73:57]
Krystal Ball
Room like a storm no one saw coming.
- [74:01]
Saagar Enjeti
Hulu Original Series All's Fair now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
- [74:08]
Podcast Advertiser/Host
No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is happening now through November 27th. Second shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and Too Faced. Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.
- [74:37]
Saagar Enjeti
This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Tour Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard ye. I mean, if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case? Clear sound. These are not standard things. You're only going to get them with the JBL Tour Pro 3, baby. And I love the sound of JBL and goes these earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others. Touchscreen Smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling and the one of a kind audio transmitter which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in flight entertainment. What more could you want? First doesn't follow. Grab a pair@jbl.com this is an iHeart podcast.