11/21/25: SEDITION! Trump Threatens Dems, ICE Flees After Lies EXPOSED, GOP PANICS In TN Special Election

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Summary: November 21, 2025 — “SEDITION! Trump Threatens Dems, ICE Flees After Lies EXPOSED, GOP PANICS In TN Special Election”

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Main Theme & Episode Overview

In this episode, Krystal Ball, Sagar Enjeti, and their panel take on the biggest stories shaking US politics and civil liberties this week. The core topics are:

• Trump’s “sedition” rhetoric and heightened threats toward Democrats
• Exposing ICE and CBP misconduct and the chaos of recent federal enforcement actions
• On-the-ground reports from the Tennessee special election, featuring interviews with insurgent candidates Justin Pearson and Afton Bain
• The deepening divide over war powers, illegal orders, and the military’s complicity in controversial foreign operations Throughout, the tone is critical, urgent, irreverent, and determined to call out power on both sides.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Media Skepticism & Setting the Stage (02:10–03:31)

• Krystal and Sagar emphasize their commitment to real, independent media: “This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.” (Sagar, 01:46)
• The crew take a few satirical jabs at mainstream news and political absurdities, laying the groundwork for a show dedicated to clearing away partisan “rage bait.”

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2. Leaked Epstein Emails & Establishment Corruption (03:31–05:00)

• Emily reports a major whistleblower leak: 18,000 new emails from Jeffrey Epstein’s Yahoo inbox, now being analyzed. “Bloomberg got a copy… but they never published the emails and they never made the whole cache public. So now, now we’ve got it and we’re going to do what we can to make as much of it public as possible.” (Emily, 04:00)
• Epstein’s links to Steve Bannon and Indian PM Modi are teased as areas of interest.

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3. Deep Dive: The Tennessee Political Earthquake (05:00–08:48)

Candidates Spotlight

• Justin Pearson: Progressive State Rep, previously ousted for anti-gun violence protests, challenging a pro-Israel incumbent.
• Afton Bain: DSA member, running in a deep-red (Trump +20) district, focused on affordability, social justice, and anti-genocide stance.

The context:

• Rising progressive energy in Tennessee; Justice Democrats betting heavily on Pearson.
• Deep historical and demographic mismatches between old-guard Democrats and an increasingly young, diverse base
• Kamala Harris’s campaign visit is debated as a mixed tactical move.

“That’s a primary where [Pearson]'s got a decent shot. There is a real mismatch between Cohen and the district, especially with the rising salience of Israel as an issue.” (Krystal, 06:29)

Steve Cohen and “the personal Pearl Harbor”

• Discussion of Cohen’s earlier attempt to join the Black Caucus, ongoing local power struggles, and how older establishment politics is being challenged by a new generation.

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4. MAIN SEGMENT: Trump’s “Sedition” Outburst & the Democrats’ Provocation (09:02–19:44)

The Democrats’ Video

• Several Democratic lawmakers—mostly with military/intelligence background—release a video urging service members and intelligence agents not to follow unlawful orders.
• “This administration is pitting our uniform military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens like us… You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders.” (Mark Kelly/Slotkin, 10:38–11:02)

Trump’s Response

• Trump posts to Truth Social calling such appeals “seditious behavior punishable by death.”
• Krystal argues Dems cleverly baited Trump into an over-the-top response: “They can point to the video and say, this is just literally the Constitution… and of course, Trump is insanely unhinged, calling for them basically to be executed.” (Krystal, 11:29–13:36)

On Democratic hypocrisy & war powers

• Ryan is cynical about the sincerity of “National Security Democrats,” pointing out their typical hawkishness abroad.
• “I would love to know if they would say this about someone who’s pushing the button for the drone that’s, you know, taking out people in the Middle East. Slotkin’s literally CIA…” (Ryan, 14:48)

“Do not commit crimes, please. And Trump’s like, how dare you?” (Emily, 16:45)

Subtext: Division, Norm-Breaking & Legal Precarity in the Military

• The significance of high-ranking military officers increasingly worried about illegal orders.
• A spate of dismissals and intimidating tactics removing internal checks (fired JAG officers).
• “People are starting to imagine what the post-Trump world is going to look like… they’re starting to take more seriously their legal responsibilities and potentially illegal or criminal actions.” (Krystal, 24:04)

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5. ICE/CBP Violence & Scandal in Chicago (31:40–45:27)

The Incident

• Chicago activist shot 5 times by CBP; agent later bragged about his “marksman” skills in texts (Krystal, 31:40).
• Initial government claims (she had a gun, vehicle was rammed) collapse under evidence: bodycam footage and texts reveal direct misconduct and fabricated stories.
• Eventually, all charges against the activist are dropped: “If she did nothing wrong… and they have this video evidence, and they’re just letting her go. What other conclusion are we supposed to come to here?” (Krystal, 35:06)

Broader Pattern

• Judge finds repeated, elaborate DHS/ICE/CBP lies—falsifying reports, employing excessive force, attacking protesters, even using AI (ChatGPT) to invent credible incident narratives (Krystal, 38:28).
• The officers’ fabrications include wild allegations (fireworks as gunshots, nails in shields, protesters “ripping” beards off agents) all debunked by footage.

“The level of consistent lies and deception all the way to the top here is so extraordinary that this judge is just like beside herself.” (Krystal, 41:35)

Implications

• Legal pressure (body cams, exposure) in Chicago forced ICE/CBP to flee to other cities as accountability increased (Krystal, 43:52).
• Emily and Ryan reflect on the dangers this lawlessness poses to public trust and to any legitimate immigration enforcement.

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6. Exclusive Interviews: Tennessee’s Insurgent Candidates

a) Justin Pearson—Progressive Challenger (47:28–58:54)

• Describes “federal occupation” in Memphis, with increased deportations and ICE raids, including traumatic stories of families torn apart:

  “We are starting to see people being kidnapped after dropping their kids off at school. ICE actually threw allegedly flash bombs… and separated some twins from their mom and dad.” (Pearson, 48:39)

• Outlines his case against incumbent Steve Cohen: “He has done all that he possibly can do… we’re in a different moment right now. This moment requires… a new vision, new energy, new direction.” (Pearson, 50:55)
• Policy platform: categorical anti-genocide, against military funding to Israel (“I will never support the sending of money… for the bombing and killing of people—it’s just not something that I’m going to do.” 55:30); championing climate justice, universal basic income, and constituents’ material needs.
• Concerns over unchecked AI/data center developments in Memphis: “Data centers are popping up in communities without any community input… utility rates skyrocketing… aquifers being depleted for this technology to exist for billionaires to make more billions of dollars.” (Pearson, 57:02)

b) Afton Bain—DSA Progressive in an R+20 District (59:13–76:46)

• Explains the rare window caused by a special election in a gerrymandered Tennessee district. “It is the last flippable red to blue congressional special election in the entire country… our polling in October showed us six points down and we are shrinking those margins every day.” (Afton, 59:48)
• Cites affordability, fatigue with Republican “trifecta,” and grassroots organizing as reasons the paradigm is shifting.
• Addresses viral “out-of-context” attack ads (64:52) and campaign smear attempts, highlighting her deep commitment to her city.
• Survived political retaliation for advocating civil rights: “[Video] they’re promulgating that I’m against law enforcement… there was an incident at the legislature where someone tried to follow me into the building in a ski mask.” (71:08)
• Discusses her anti-genocide and anti-corporate-PAC stances, stressing authenticity and willingness to build bridges across divisions.
• Describes aggressive pressure and intimidation during the campaign but remains optimistic, calling for turnout:

  “I have, I’ve been really jaded and this is the first time that I’ve been excited. And we are, I think we’re inspiring a country…” (Afton, 76:09)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "They can point to the video and say, this is just literally the Constitution… and of course, Trump is insanely unhinged, calling for them basically to be executed." — Krystal Ball (13:29)
• "If she did nothing wrong… and they have this video evidence, and they’re just letting her go. What other conclusion are we supposed to come to here?" — Krystal Ball (35:06)
• “I will never support the sending of money across and overseas for the bombing and the killing of people. It's just not something that I'm going to do.” — Justin Pearson (55:30)
• “If you say we need to get some money to a country to bomb and to kill somebody overnight, Democrats and Republicans alike run back to the Capitol to be able to sign off on that, and I won’t.” — Justin Pearson (55:44)
• “Immigrants are not the reason your grocery prices are high.” — Afton Bain (74:04)
• “Hearing President Trump mention my name was probably the highlight of this campaign. I thought he was going to be like, Ivanka’s way cuter than Afton Bain, blah, blah, blah, she’s not a real blonde. But no, he said, went the historical conventional route, which was I’m a left wing lunatic." — Afton Bain (74:44)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• Intro/Setting the stage: 02:10–03:31
• Epstein emails leak: 03:31–05:00
• Justice Democrats in Tennessee & special election dynamics: 05:00–08:48
• Trump’s “Sedition!” truth & Dem video on illegal orders: 09:02–19:44
• ICE/CBP corruption in Chicago: 31:40–45:27
• Interview – Justin Pearson: 47:28–58:54
• Interview – Afton Bain: 59:13–76:46

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Episode Tone & Final Reflection

Breaking Points delivers this episode with their signature mix of urgency, humor, and blunt analysis. The show’s commitment to exposing both Republican and Democratic hypocrisy is on full display, especially on matters of accountability, war powers, and abuse of law enforcement. The show is also notable for giving a platform to insurgent candidates locked out of mainstream coverage, and for unspooling the complex, human costs of both national policy and local malfeasance.

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Useful for those who missed the episode, this summary captures the stakes, the scandals, and the personalities animating today’s most urgent US political battles—and delivers the highlights with quotes and detail true to the show’s no-nonsense ethos.

Transcript

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[Listener/Caller]

I turned off news altogether.

[Krystal Ball]

I hate to say it, but I.

[Listener/Caller]

Don'T trust much of anything.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's the rage bait.

[Krystal Ball]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Emily]

We got clear facts.

[Ryan Grim]

Maybe we can calm down a little.

[Emily]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Podcast Host (Ad Reader)]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Krystal Ball]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Krystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Ryan Grim]

We need your help to build the.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com Good morning everyone.

[Krystal Ball]

Good morning. How goes it?

[Justin Pearson]

Doing good.

[Host/Interviewer]

Emily, are you doing air traffic control this morning? Are you saving the planes?

[Ryan Grim]

I am. There's so much exhaustion with the FAA that I'm here to help though. I'm in the White House basement under the press briefing room because I'm new media pool today for the Trump Zoron meeting, so I'll be there for all of the highlights.

[Emily]

You have to ask whether or not Trump approves of Mamdani's plan to require New York City children to learn Arabic numerals.

[Ryan Grim]

This is.

[Emily]

You have to ask. People need to know this.

[Krystal Ball]

They do. I mean, he's right. He's absolutely right. Ryan's such a pro, man.

[Ryan Grim]

I'm gonna ask if he supports the full burka over the Statue of Liberty.

[Emily]

Why don't.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, ask him why 80% of young women prefer Sharia law. The Republican Party.

[Emily]

And what. What's wrong. What's wrong with Roman numerals? Like, you know, the. The Judeo Christian civilization is. Is sourced out of. Out of Rome, according to Ben Shapiro's latest book, why are we Not Teaching Roman Numerals?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

You guys have given me so much to work with.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Take. Take notes. M. Take notes. Don't forget these.

[Emily]

Oh, and tell. Tell him. Tell him.

[Host/Interviewer]

There you go.

[Emily]

Tell them that we just got 18,000 more emails from Jeffrey Epstein's Yahoo inbox. Shout out to Distributed denial of secrets. DDoS is the same nonprofit whistleblower site that got Ehud Barack's email.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, wow.

[Emily]

And shared that with us. Now, now they got this, his Yahoo inbox and they, they've given us access to that as of yesterday.

[Justin Pearson]

Very special.

[Krystal Ball]

Have you started searching through. Have you had a chance to work with it at all?

[Emily]

Yes, a little bit. And we put a couple of pieces from it in our story that just went up this morning about Epstein and Bannon and Modi and Epstein's relationship with India. There's a lot in there. Interestingly, you see some emails being forwarded in 2020, so after he died. So clearly somebody from his estate or somebody was like, monkeying with it. Now you can't fabricate emails to, like, you can't go back in time and make up new emails. But I would, I would suspect that some of the best stuff probably was deleted out of this thing before it got to us. Bloomberg got a copy, a version of this a while ago and did a couple stories out of it, but they never published the emails and they never made the whole cache public. So now, now we've got it and we're going to do what we can to make as much of it public as possible. If you guys want to, like, search around in it, let me know and I'll figure out a way to get you access to it. We're going to try to make the access public, too.

[Ryan Grim]

That's awesome.

[Emily]

We're working on that. Yeah. See what Trump thinks of that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

One.

[Ryan Grim]

A message from Ryan Grim.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that one. I would actually like to see his reaction to sir 18,000 new Epstein emails just dropped. Your reaction? What do you expect people are going to find in there?

[Ryan Grim]

I'll just get called a pig.

[Host/Interviewer]

I know. I was going to say we're asking for a piggy. We're begging for piggy on that one. All right, well, we're going to after making sure Emily's getting kicked out of the conference later today. We've got a big show right now on Friday. We have two guests later in the show. We got. Who do we got, Crystal? We got Justin Pearson, Afton.

[Krystal Ball]

Afton Bain. So they're both running in Tennessee. Afton is running in a special election that is actually happening like right now. Early voting. Voting has already started. It is a Trump +20 district. It is a very Republican red district. But Democrats at least were getting a little bit excited about like a slim possibility maybe they could pull off the unthinkable here. Afton is, you know, she's like a DSA member. I mean, she's very against the genocide. She's really foregrounded affordability in terms of her campaign. Interestingly though, Kamala Harris is coming to the district, which I'm not really sure about that being the right decision. We'll ask her all those questions. And then Justin Pearson, you guys remember may remember him as being part of the quote, unquote, Tennessee three kick down. He he is a state rep kicked out of the legislature because of this protest against gun violence. He is now challenging Steve Cohen, who is an incumbent, very pro Israel incumbent Democrat representing Memphis and an older guy as well. And so Justin is like this insurgent. He's backed by the Justice Justice Democrats challenging him from the left. I really, you know, admire what his, you know, the courage that he has had in the state of Tennessee, the way he stood for his values. So I'm really excited to speak with him as well. And I have to think that's a primary where he's got a decent shot. You know, it's one of those where there is a real mismatch between Cohen and the the district and especially with the rising salience of Israel as an issue and being such a schism between the base and Democratic Party elite. So I just talked to the Justice Democrats, to two of their, their comms director and their campaigns director. They're feeling very bullish about this race as well. They're quite careful about where they resources and their funds. So this is one that they're in full force behind. So excited to talk to him as well.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Justin Pearson]

Show well, I was just going to.

[Ryan Grim]

Say Ryan, you probably covered Cohen a lot. He's one of the weirdest members of Congress.

[Justin Pearson]

He is.

[Emily]

And colorful and often a delightful way. Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, true.

[Ryan Grim]

He's.

[Emily]

I, I covered. When he was first elected, there was this controversy because he tried to join the Black Caucus.

[Ryan Grim]

That was him. I forgot about that.

[Emily]

Yeah, he argued and I covered this meeting and everything. He argued that he represents a black district, a majority black district. And so what is it? Is it about the members or is it about the constituents? Yeah, like, isn't, isn't they. Are we representing the people? Who cares what color? I am. I'm representing a majority black district. You should not disenfranchise all of my constituents from this block inside the House. I thought I had a fair argument. He did not. He did not prevail on that. They then tried. They. The, the kind of black establishment in the district ran sort of a kind of underground kind of black primary to say, like, if we have more than one candidate challenging him, it's going to split the vote and he's going to win easily. And so the, the, the establishment there rallied behind one candidate and he crushed her. And they haven't tried since. So that was a long time ago in a different era. And that was pre genocide, too. And so we'll, you know, we'll see.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, he's calling this race his personal Pearl harbor, so we're excited to dive into all that and more.

[Emily]

Maybe we should get him on. He's like, Like Emily.

[Krystal Ball]

He's a character. Yeah, he's a character. I've had dealings with him as well. Yeah.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

All right, well, stay tuned for a Future Friday show. Mr. Cohen, you know, we got a lot of other news stories, but let's start with a little bit of death, sedition. Donald Trump. Donald Trump posted Truth. Yeah, he did a truth. He posted a truth on Truth Social where he says seditious behavior punishable by death. Now, I saw this first, and I had no idea what it was referring to, but I realized after doing some research, it's referring to our friend Alyssa Slotkin in a video that she made, if I'm correct. Right.

[Krystal Ball]

Her and others. Senator Mark Kelly, the. What's his name? Out of Pennsylvan Pena. Interesting populist guy. Anyway, it's a number of Democrats who either have military or intelligence, in the case of Lissa Slotkin backgrounds, who made this video, saying effectively, like, listen to our service members out there. You are not obligated. In fact, you have responsibility not to follow unlawful orders. You want to go ahead and play that Griff.

[Host/Interviewer]

Let's take a listen.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I'm Senator Alyssa Slotkin. Senator Mark Kelly. Representative Chris d'. Aluzio. Congresswoman Maggie Galania. Representative Chrissy Houlihan. Congressman Jason Crow, that was a captain in the United States Navy, former CIA officer, former Navy, former paratrooper and Army Ranger, former intelligence officer, former Air Force. We want to speak directly to members of the military and the intelligence community who take risks each day to keep Americans safe. We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now.

[Krystal Ball]

Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This administration is pitting our uniform military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens like us. You all swore an oath to protect and defend this Constitution. Right now, the threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad, but from right here at home. Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders.

[Krystal Ball]

No one has to carry out orders.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That violate the law or our Constitution. We know this is hard and that it's a difficult time to be a public servant.

[Krystal Ball]

But whether you're serving in the CIA.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The army, or Navy, the Air Force, your vigilance is critical. And know that we have your back because now more than ever, the American people need you. We need you to stand up for our laws, our Constitution, and who we are as Americans.

[Krystal Ball]

So this is interesting to me on a number of levels. First of all, I mean, Mark Kelly, Alyssa Slotkin, people will probably be familiar with them in particular as United States senators. Like, these are not, you know, these are not radicals. This is very centristy, you know, these are the national security Dems. And so, you know, to, to put out this video I thought was actually very savvy and sort of like almost something that the Republicans would think to do because I assume they figured they would effectively bait Trump and the Republicans into a sort of meltdown response, over the top meltdown response. And then they can point to the video and say, this is just literally the Constitution. Like, this is just pointing out that you are not obligated to follow unlawful orders, and in fact, you are obligated to not follow those unlawful orders. And of course, the backdrop drop of all of this is the National Guard deployments, which in certain instances have been deemed to be unlawful. And in particular the bombing of these various boats, which is on, I mean, I don't even think it's fair to call it shaky legal ground. It's just invented non existent illegal ground. And there was some reporting. I don't know if you guys saw Saga and I, I think Sagar and I covered it where there's groups, there's outside groups that will give advice, legal counsel to service members. And they've seen a huge uptick in outreach from current service members who are asking them, like, am I in legal jeopardy here for participating in this? So this is a very real and live issue. I'm sure it's something that Slotkin and Mark Kelly and the others involved him in hearing from their constituents and concerns from within the military. So, you know, for me, it was interesting to see these centrists take a, what I think is an intentionally, like both very solidly grounded, but also sort of intentionally provocative in terms of trying to get a response from Trump. And then, of course, Trump is insanely unhinged, calling for them basically to be executed such that that's a question that his press secretary had to actually field. Like, do you want, basically, do you want lawmakers from the opposition party to be murdered for treason? Do you want.

[Host/Interviewer]

I got that. If you want me to pull it up before we.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, let's hear it.

[Host/Interviewer]

Emily, react.

[Krystal Ball]

Brian.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Thank you, Carolyn. Two questions. We were talking about four earlier in this briefing about the president's orders. You were going back and forth about what's. What the ad said, what you'd say. My first question is the ads, the advertisement that Senate Democrats were featured in. So the first question is, no matter what the order is, could be to any administration official, military, otherwise, no matter if legal experts might think it's illegal, does the president expect those cabinet members, Mitra's officials, to go ahead with those orders regardless of any, any outside thinking or the president expects his cabinet officials and the administration to follow the law and to demand accountability and hold people accountable for their dangerous rhetoric.

[Krystal Ball]

And I would just add that if.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This were Republican members of Congress who.

[Krystal Ball]

Were encouraging members of the military and.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Members of our United States government to defy orders from the president and from the chain of command. This entire room would be up in.

[Krystal Ball]

Arms, but instead it is the other way around. And I think that's quite telling. I'm going to let you all go because the president.

[Ryan Grim]

Excuse me.

[Krystal Ball]

So, Emily or Ryan, you guys can jump in your thoughts.

[Ryan Grim]

I do think Slotkin and Kelly and centrist Democrats in general, it's, it's particularly, I mean, this is what makes me feel more cynical about what they're doing. As someone who's like, obviously very concerned about the, not even bothered to like the administration, not even bothering to justify basically on like publicly at least their strikes and like the, the war powers that they have to be doing this. I'm very cynical about Slotkin and Kelly and Centristems coming out with this messaging, because I would love to know if. If they would say this about someone who's pushing the button for the drone that's, you know, taking out people in the. The Middle East. I would love to know, maybe even a US Citizen in the Middle East. It just.

[Emily]

Or Caribbean.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, or. Yeah, or. Yep, exactly. And so I feel like.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, I think they are talking about the Caribbean, aren't they?

[Ryan Grim]

Probably, yeah. That's what I'm assuming that they're talking about.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So it just, it feels like a really cynical way to jump into all of this from people who I don't think would have any interest. And I'm sure they're like, all for regime change in Venezuela as well. I mean, Slotkin's literally CIA, so I just am cynical about it. But I don't know, I mean, it's kind of funny to see Slotkin stepping into her. Her lane here.

[Emily]

Well, that's where the National Security Democrats really are. You know, feel their oats. Like they, they feel so comfortable in that space of defending the Constitution and standing up for democracy and norm. So, like, this is, this is their. This is their spot. Even if it's, even it's. If it's cynical and to Crystal's point, clever in the sense that they're going to say something totally anodyne. Hey, don't do anything illegal. And Trump's gonna absolutely freak out.

[Ryan Grim]

Right? He said the craziest stuff.

[Emily]

Do not commit crimes, please. And Trump's like, how dare you? And Caroline Levitt's like, I find it very telling that she would tell them not to commit crimes.

[Ryan Grim]

No. Trump was like, we'll kill you.

[Emily]

Just saying. I find that very telling.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I mean, but, like, I do actually think it's clever. And yeah, of course they're like, you know, hypocritical, like Slot Canning, Mark Kelly. They've had, you know, we both know what their position on the genocide has been and how they were all on board with it. And there were no concern about unlawful orders or, you know, international law or any of that when that was concerned. So the, the cynical nature of this is sort of like, you know, to me, so obvious is to be beside the point. I actually, it's funny you say therefore, Ryan, like, upholding the norms. And I actually see this as a little bit norm breaking for them because they're, they're, you know, I mean, it is.

[Emily]

Good point. Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

They don't come out and say, like, you cannot follow the orders to murder the random people in the Caribbean. That is the implied subtext. But everybody knows that that is there. And that is actually to, like, actively go and directly speak to current service members and suggest that they may be violating the law by following the orders from this president, that the President's orders are unlawful, and that what they're getting from their chain of command, unlawful and unvetted. I mean, I think that in a different era, they would have found that to be out of bounds. Right. That's not our place. That's too far over the line. And so I feel like there has been some learning even from the center's Democrats, of, like, how to play this game, how to bait Trump in a way that he frequently baits the Democrats and get an unhinged response from him that just looks, you know, completely bananas and bonkers. And this comes shortly on the heels of him talking about, oh, we got to turn down the temperature after Charlie Kirk is assassinated. And now here, here he is retweeting some guy who said they should be hanged. That's what George Washington would have done for literally putting on a video like Ryan said. That's just like, hey, guys, don't break the law. He sentiment that they should be hanged for that.

[Emily]

That's a good point. And it should be seen with Ro Khanna's interview that he did. I think it was yesterday where he was even maybe more direct and talking about the Epstein files legislation that Trump signed into office.

[Ryan Grim]

He.

[Emily]

He was basically, he's speaking directly to people at the Department of Justice and saying, you know, this is not an opinion at this point. This is federal law. You have. You have to follow federal law. If you're going through these files, you're deleting things, you're obstructing, you know, you're obstructing the investigation. You're destroying evidence. There is a good chance that we will find out and that we will prosecute you once Democrats are back in power. So he said very clearly. Think about that now before you. Before you break the law. So, yeah, that is a little bit more aggressive and norm breaking for Democrats than traditionally.

[Ryan Grim]

Let's put up on the, on the screen here. This is reporting on a classified Justice Department memo that says US Troops will not be held liable in boat strikes. So what's interesting about this and actually really sad about this, is that war powers are just so broad that what they're doing is trying to find the meat of the article here, they're basically, they're justifying it by saying if you have this memo from the Office of the Legal Counsel, it covers anyone from future prosecution. And there's like, as much as I don't like that, there's like already precedent baked in that you're not going to get prosecuted for it. That doesn't mean it's right. But that's how the administration, this is not even public by the way. So they're saying it's about a 50 page opinion. It says the US is in a quote, non international armed conflict waged under Article 2 authority parties. And that armed conflict argument is what they did give in a notice to Congress. But it's in this again, classified 50 page memo that says because cartels are selling drugs to finance a campaign of violence and extortion, they are then justified.

[Host/Interviewer]

What does non international mean? Like, I didn't know that the Caribbean was part of the American nation. Like, what is that? What does that mean, non international every day?

[Ryan Grim]

I don't know.

[Krystal Ball]

Legally, I think, I assume it means, I'm not sure Griffin either. My reading of that was it means like it's an attack on American soil, effectively because of the drugs that are being brought into the US And I believe it was the New York Times, Emily also did reporting on this, you know, classified memo. And effectively, I mean what they're doing is rather than even relying on their own internal research and analysis of drug traffickers and where the drugs originate from and what the cartels are up to, they relied on the word of the president and his characterization and other administration officials characterization of what was going on here. In other words, total and complete lies. And they use that, that as their justification for the legal rationale in this memo. So, you know, I think this is where you also have to consider the moment that we're in, in the Trump administration where he is at maybe one of his weakest points ever. You know, I think you'd have to go back to just after January 6th to see after he's lost an election, his own election, and failed, you know, had his failed coup and even Republicans are at that particular moment, they've since gotten over it, but at that particular moment, condemning him from his for his actions. I think you have to go back to that time to see him as weakened as he is right now because you have, he's an old man, he's fallen asleep. He just got his ass handed to him in elections across the country. Republicans rebuked him on the Epstein files And he had to cave and totally flip flop. His approval rating is in the toilet. And everybody's looking at like, okay, this man is a lame duck. Now what is the future gonna going to look like? And so the reason that context is important is because you have a lot of criminal and corrupt behavior that has just been completely normalized in this administration. And just like Steve Bannon coming out and being like, you know, some of these, some of us, including myself, are gonna end up in prison if Democrats in power. I don't actually think that's true with Steve Bannon, with some of these other folks, they got to start thinking in that direction. You know, Chris, you know, I'm funneling frigging 200 plus million dollars into an aligned, you know, that her boyfriend, alleged boyfriend, Corey Lewandowski runs. It's just in, it's just insane, the levels of corruption. We're going to talk about what ICE and Greg Bevino, CBP, have been up to. Lying to judges, you know, repeatedly, even when there's body cam and other video evidence to directly contradict them. And so in that same vein, you have service members who are receiving these orders with like the flimsiest, or not even bothering to give them a justification, who are thinking to themselves, like, this dude is not going to be in power forever. Maybe my superiors will be protected, but will I? You know, are they going to like, are they going to protect me or are they going to save their own asses? So I think that's part of why this video lands in a particular way right now. And interestingly, from that report I was mentioning earlier about the, you know, the nonprofits that do this kind of legal work and legal advice to service members. They said it's actually mostly people who are higher up in the chain of command who are reaching out to them because they have enough insight to the system to know that the normal legal checks that exist to the extent that they ever do are not being followed. A bunch of JAG officers, a bunch of internal military lawyers were fired. So they're the ones who are like, hey, I'm not so sure about this. The rank and file, you know, enlisted men and women are not questioning as much because they just still have this sort of like naive faith that, well, if I'm being told to do this, it must have gone, it must be approved, it must have gone through the proper checks. So in any case, I think the fact that people are starting to imagine what the post Trump world is going to look like is another reason why they're starting to take more seriously their legal responsibilities and potentially illegal or criminal actions.

[Ryan Grim]

I think the OLC memo that we were just talking about is a sign. Well, I mean, they were, they apparently drafted it before the strikes started. No surprise there. But I think the, the leaks about it suggest, you know, this administration hasn't made a lot of this stuff public and has basically just been saying screw you to questions about the legal justification for all of that. Their response, the Pentagon's response is literally just the President is following the law or we're following the law. We're taking all steps, steps to comply with the law. But I think that is that some of the leaks suggest that there are concerns internally about people's asses being covered in the future if prosecutions came down the line. Now, honestly, having read a lot of the coverage of it and looked at the memo, I just think our war powers are so broad that anybody involved will probably be fine. And I think that's wrong. And our war power shouldn't be that broad. And I think a lot of people in the MAGA coalition think our war powers shouldn't be that broad. But we'll, but are just, you know, looking the other way on this one. But it's, it's, it's a sign, I think internally that there's discomfort.

[Host/Interviewer]

Are these Senate Dems coming out against regime change?

[Emily]

Ryan, it's just hard to see how a boat with. Even if the boat has like a handgun or an assault rifle on it, like how a boat off the coast of Venezuela can plausibly be read as a, as a military threat to the United States. So yeah, yeah, I agree with you that like, we don't have a system that ever is going to prosecute anybody for anything. Like that's probably true. But if a prosecutor did try, I feel like it would be pretty straightforward that we have not declared like, declared war on what, like boats. Boats would.

[Ryan Grim]

Enough to make people sweat.

[Emily]

Yeah, so.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, yeah, but the argument that they make is that because the boats are carrying drugs and the drugs are intended to give profits back to that would be used on military equipment. That's literally according.

[Emily]

They have no idea that that's true. None.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, they haven't prosecuted any of the, the survivors of these strikes haven't been prosecuted for.

[Emily]

They are completely making that up. It's also. It's not true. Like, as Saga and I reported, Venezuela and their diplomats have made clear to the U.S. we don't fund our military but with drugs. We fund it with oil and other minerals. Like, we're very open about. The whole reason that you want to like bomb us and do regime change is because of the wealth that we have from the oil and the minerals. That's where our money comes under the ground. So if somebody, if somebody, you know, let's say you kill somebody and your claim is, well, those drug, the profits from those drugs were going back to a military that we're not even at war with. Like, set that aside, like what, what military are we even, even at war with? What terror group is connected to Al Qaeda? Because you have to have a connection to Al Qaeda in order for the AUMF to work. Setting that aside, how do you know where those profits are going? You saw a boat leave, it looked to you like it was a drug boat and you bombed it. You don't know what organization that boat was with, whether it was a one off, whether, like you don't, you don't, you don't know like where that money is moving if you do go arrest those people. But like, like I don't think in a court if a person said, well I was worried that this money was going to go to finance x terror organization, like, okay, which one? So you can't just walk down the street and kill people and say that you thought that the people's money might eventually be used for something that you say is illegal. Like that's not a permissible reason to execute people. So that's why I think you could actually make the case. I agree with you that nobody, no, in no universe does that ever happen in our country.

[Host/Interviewer]

Ryan. But we got to move to ice. But my question for you is do these Senate Dems who are saying don't break the law, have they spoken out about regime change in Venezuela?

[Emily]

Because it's a decent number of a decent number about. Because they're being pressured by progressive, you know, anti war groups. They've been reluctant to, but an increasing number have, have reluctantly and you can see the reluctance in their statements and in their comments come out and said, okay, we shouldn't do this.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, okay, well that's a win for progressive anti war groups.

[Emily]

There we go.

[Krystal Ball]

Put the pressure on. I don't care what's in their heart. Like they're saying the right things. I appreciate that.

[Listener/Caller]

I turned off news altogether.

[Krystal Ball]

I hate to say it, but I.

[Listener/Caller]

Don'T trust much of anything.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's the rage bait.

[Krystal Ball]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Emily]

We got clear facts.

[Ryan Grim]

Maybe we can calm down a little.

[Emily]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's move forward from there.

[Emily]

NBC News reporting for America.

[Ad Voice]

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[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, let's, let's talk about some of what's going on in Chicago because I followed this story and I suspect a lot of other people did very closely. There was a woman who was a local activist, Chicago activist against ICE and Border Patrol. And there was an incident that occurred. There was some sort of a vehicle incident that occurred. She ended up shot five times with seven bullet holes in her, which apparently the guy who did it, the CBP agent who did it, was very proud of and was bragging to his buddies about what a great marksman he was. Look at all the holes I put in her body. He, he texted to some of his buddies and in immediately the story the government is telling diverges from the emerging facts. Okay, so their initial story is that she crashed into them and they had to protect themselves and that she had a semiautomatic weapon. And so that's why they were justified in shooting this woman. Chicago resident five times American citizen, Chicago resident, known local activist five times. Okay, so then that's their initial story when they actually filed charges against her. Already the story has changed. Okay? We find out that the place where they said that she was after the. The accident was not. Was not correct. We find out no longer they mentioning the gun. Previously they'd said there were all these cars that had blocked them in and they couldn't escape. And that was part of why, you know, they had to defend themselves in this way and they had to fire on her. Now we just have her and one other guy, whose mom, by the way, is out there saying, like, he's not even an activist, he just was literally driving his car in. Wrong place, wrong time. Okay, so. So the story the government is telling and the story that they are now telling in the indictment totally diverge. Then you have the lawyer for this woman, the one who got shot five times, saying, this is not what happened at all. In fact, we have viewed body camera video that shows they crashed into her. And then they said they said something provocative. I can't remember what they said, like, right before the CBP officer fired on her, like, take that or something. Something like that. Right. Showing a, you know, real intent, that there was no indication that she had threatened them whatsoever. And other various parts of the story fell apart. Fell apart. Then these text messages where he's texting with his buddies and bragging about what he had done here, then those come out. Then the vehicle that was involved in this, they're the, the CBP vehicle they like took from Chicago and took it away from the scene. Like it's seeming to conceal the evidence. Okay, but they're still persisting in these charges against her, that she was a violent threat, etc. Well, now they have just completely and totally dropped the charges. They have dropped the charges against this woman. And the, the lawyer is indicating that there was additional body camera and footage that was going to come out and additional text messages coming from this guy who shot at her. So now they're saying she didn't. I mean, they're not pressing charges against her at all. And again, they have body camera footage. So if she did something wrong, the government would really be able to prove it. And the government has a lot of advantages in these situations anyway. So it increasingly looks like they just straight up tried to kill this lady. And, you know, allegedly. That's really what it looks like at this point. If she did nothing wrong, that they can charge and they have this video evidence and they're just letting her go. Like, what other conclusion are we supposed to come to here? She was a Known local activist, you know, they had it out for her. And there are other instances that we now know where they sort of incited these sorts of accidents that have been caught on video that they've been called out in other trials. So this is a completely, completely insane situation here and I think shows you the level of chaos, lawlessness and outright violence that communities have been subjected to by these, you know, by these thugs that have been unleashed with our taxpayer dollars on American streets.

[Host/Interviewer]

There was another story I saw that there was a child predator sting and one of the members was an ICE employee and when they arrested him, he was like, hey, don't worry guys, I'm ice. Like, as if that was going to like let him lose.

[Krystal Ball]

Don't care, you're arrested anyway. Which kudos to them.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, well, how many times did they not arrest someone when they said, don't worry, I'm ice? You know, that's the other question.

[Emily]

Yeah, this is, I mean, it's hard to find a more egregious case than this because they very nearly and tried to kill the woman. Like you shoot somebody five times and brag about hitting them, putting seven holes in them, and you're that much of a sociopath that you brag about it. This is another human, this is a human being, this is a fellow American. It's hard to get more egregious than that. Yet we are seeing across the country judges just starting to lose it. On the Department of Homeland Security and on the prosecutors. You're seeing more and more filings coming out, rulings coming out from judges where they are indicating that they have been just flat out straight up lied to. Now the idea that some police lie is, you know, judges are familiar with that. So imagine what it takes for these judges to be as outraged as they are because they're used to like the little white lies, you know, from a lot of police officers in the courtroom. This stuff is just completely backwards stuff like their car rammed into us. And so that's why we either shot at them or beat them or arrested them. You see the video footage, it was DHS that actually rammed into them. So many examples of that. A case that came out yesterday that they were basically, you know, tapping their brakes so that there would be a car accident so that they could then.

[Krystal Ball]

Start on them driving erratically and doing brake checks to try to cause an accident in order to justify use of force.

[Emily]

Yeah, saying that they were saying that they were hit by a two by four with nails in. It turned out it was cardboard with nothing in it, saying that somebody ripped somebody's beard off didn't happen.

[Ryan Grim]

Saying that she's also licensed to conceal carry. So she was perfectly. The gun was in her handbag was perfectly legal.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And never. And she never did any. She never even reached for it. I mean. Yeah, and they just invented. Initially, remember, it was like this, you know, semi automatic weapon that she was threatening them with. And you know, I mean, they just like. Griffin, can you pull up this thread from Aaron Ricelet Riceland Melnick that has a bunch of the examples here? This is from judge Ellis, who he describes as the first federal judge to review extensive body cam footage of DHS's actions in Chicago. And she's the one who required them all, including Bavino, to wear body cam footage. And a lot of the lies are not. Not that it's excusable from like the rank and file either, but quite a number of them come directly from Bevino because he's not only running the operation, he is also on the ground, like doing some of the actions and assaulting especially some of the protesters. So he's got a number of the examples here. First, he says she finds DHS repeatedly misled the public. I'll go through some of the most egregious ones here. She says he says that she finds Chief Bovino gave not credible testimony stating he appeared evasive over the three days of his deposition. Deposition either providing cute responses are outright lying. On October 28, DHS claimed days earlier rioters had shot at agents with commercial artillery shell fireworks, forcing agents to deploy tear gas and riot munitions. Oh, it turns out the explosions were DHS's own flashbangs. DHS claimed agents were forced to use riot munitions to disperse an unruly mob. In fact, the scene was quiet. And then almost immediately and without warning, agents lob flashbang grenades, tear gas, pepper balls, stating yeah, as they do so. On Sept. Sept. 26, a DHS officer claimed they were forced to deploy riot munitions because protesters were becoming increasingly hostile. Hostile. In fact, the BWC video shows protesters were simply standing there when agents first deployed any force. DHS claimed an incident on Oct. 3 showed agents were in danger of being rammed. This is the one Ryan was referring to. In fact, body cam suggests the agent drove erratically and brake checked other motorists in an attempt to force accidents that agents could then use as justification for deploying force. She says all these errors add up. At some point it becomes difficult, if not impossible to believe almost anything DHS represents. For example, a top officer testified protesters had shields with nails in them. Except there were no nails and mostly it was cardboard. In another incident, DHS officers wrote that protesters had thrown a bike at federal agents. I remember the DHS Twitter account really publicized this one as like, oh my God, look at this violence we're subjected to. In fact, it was the agents themselves that actually took a protester's bike and threw it to the side. In another example that was not backed up by evidence, the head of ICE's ERO's Chicago field office testified a protester had ripped a beard off an agent's face and broken part of ice's building. There was zero evidence to back that up. And there are more here, including the use of ChatGPT to help fill out a report and create a credible narrative. So just, you know, typically, even though, yes, we all know that cops lie, that it's not anything new, but the level of consistent lies and deception all the way to the top here is so extraordinary that this judge is just like beside herself. How can you trust a word that any of these people say? I mean, we got gaslit on that thing that I was tweeting about, the video where they literally pepper sprayed into a car that had a one year old that just had to happen to be driving in the other direction. American citizens. And they had the gall to be like, we would never pop or spray a child. It's like, we can all watch the video. It's in the tweet that you're quote, tweet like it's right there for all of us to see. I don't even know what to say about this, but now they're in Charlotte. They're headed to New Orleans as well with this, you know, reign of terror campaign. Bunch of untrained buffoons who don't know what they're doing and are just out looking for violence, apparently.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, one of the ways that I look at this and somebody who, like I do, I do disagree with you guys on the amount of deportations that have to happen. But what I look at this and I think should be able to happen without people obstructing unduly and all of that. And I think that was going to be a challenge no matter what. But this is causing. I'm genuinely surprised that there hasn't been even more actually that there haven't been people who have, who have been killed in like, pretty high numbers. Because this is causing really, this like, theater is, I think, causing a lot of difficulties that are actually going to make it harder for them at some point to like, get genuine criminals. That's what they say they want to start with the worst of the worst. Getting, you know, people with genuine criminal backgrounds out of the country is going to be a lot harder. When you're mode of operation is primarily this, like, really, really theatrical approach where it's like intentionally ginning up clashes and then putting those out on. On social media, for example, the temperature is just being raised to crazy high levels. So it's. Yeah, it's. I actually think it's amazing that more people have not been seriously hurt.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I also don't think it's an accident that they, you know, left Chicago in this moment because there were more. There was more and more legal scrutiny of their actions. And this judge, Alice, had been this. There were a number of judges that were rebuking them and limiting the scope of what they were able to do. There's also a consent decree in place already in the Chicago area that, you know, provided a few more tools to, you know, for the. The justice system to. To work there. So I think that may be part of why they moved on to other cities. Because their use of tear gas had already been reined in. This judge had already ordered Bavino and every other agent to have body cameras on so that you could come out with some. This sort of litany of the distance between what they're saying and the fact that the reality was oftentimes the polar opposite of what that they were doing and that it was happening in a really way. So, you know, to me, that is probably one of the reasons why they decided to move on. And it's important because it shows that, you know, the legal pushback, it took time. There was a lot of pain and violence that occurred in the meantime, and kids getting, you know, worried about tear gas as they're getting ready for Halloween and all of that. But in the end, it did create, you know, enough pressure that they felt like, okay, we. We can't do this here the way we want to in the totally lawless, this unaccountable, violent way that we want to. So I guess we're gonna have to move somewhere else where we don't have those restrictions in place yet.

[Listener/Caller]

I turned off news altogether.

[Krystal Ball]

I hate to say it, but I.

[Listener/Caller]

Don'T trust much of anything.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's the rage bait.

[Krystal Ball]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Emily]

We got clear facts.

[Ryan Grim]

Maybe we can calm down, down a little.

[Emily]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's move forward from there.

[Emily]

NBC News reporting for America.

[Ad Voice]

The Wait is over. The Knicks Black Friday sale is on [e-mail] shop early and save up to 60% off site wide plus all kinds of limited time daily deals from the number one leak proof brand in North America. Don't miss your chance to save big on innovative intimates like leak proof underwear, wireless bras, shapewear and more. Everything is on sale. Millions have made the switch to NYX's revolutionary period underwear and there's never been a better time for you to try them too. During the Black Friday sale, save up to 60% on super comfy machine washable and stylish leak proof undies. Plus shop the best deals of the year on NYX's best selling assortment of wireless bras. Don't miss this chance to stock up on your Knicks favorites or try something new during the Nick's Black Friday event. That's knix.com the sale ends December 2nd and sizes will sell out. Go to nyx.com that's knix.com no it's.

[Podcast Host (Ad Reader)]

Not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is happening now through November 22nd. Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Max Mac and too faced. Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.

[Host/Interviewer]

All right, well, on that note, we're gonna move on. We've got here in the lobby. Welcome to the show. We've got Tennessee state Rep. Justin Pearson. How you doing man?

[Justin Pearson]

I' doing fantastic. How are you?

[Host/Interviewer]

Welcome. Welcome to the show. What's going on?

[Justin Pearson]

A little bit of everything. Running for Congress, which is a lot of fun and meeting people in the district. We also have got a lot going on here in Memphis from Trump's occupation with over 1500 federal agents, the National Guard deployment by our governor at Trump's behest, which has had hundreds of people here that's just been proven unconstitutional and now they're saying it's going to cost $8 million to take them out. So we've got a lot going on in Memphis, but the spirit of people remains strong as we continue to fight things like ice, which is really devastating our Latino community as well.

[Ryan Grim]

So Representative Pearson Kristol was basically asking if you could speak a bit to the experience in Memphis of having this massive operation, the massive deportation operation from the federal government and from the administration. If you could go just tell us a little bit about what that was like in Memphis.

[Justin Pearson]

Yeah. So being under federal occupation literally for the deportation of people in our own communities has been a devastating experience quite frankly. We are starting to see people being kidnapped after dropping their kids off at school. Most recently we heard of an incident where ICE actually threw allegedly flash bombs, flash grenades into individuals homes and separated some twin, some twins from their mom and their dad. And so the trauma of what we are experiencing is severe and we can't downplay that in any way, shape or form. It's very frustrating to see ICE in partnership with our own local police, in partnership with people who are supposed to be doing the work of serving and protecting our communities that are part of the terrorizing of our communities. Particularly for Latino folks in Memphis and Shelby county, we've had over 300 people be kidnapped, deported, displaced. It's causing a labor issue, it's causing an issue of parents not wanting to send their kids to school and these problems that they said they were gonna sol, such as violent crime and things like that they don't care about. It was never about that. And so we in a lot of cities that are experiencing this are all having to be eyes wide open to what this is, which is an attack on immigrants. And it is also a weaponization of military against democratically elected officials, particularly in Democratic led cities and black led cities by this administration. And the harm is going to be lasting. And our governor has said, and even this administration has said, you know, this could go on in perpetuity. Over half a billion dollars has been spent on this already. Billions will likely be spent by the time this is over and our communities are still going to be left broken, unsafe, harmed and children traumatized.

[Emily]

So Representative Cohen has been a pretty, correct me if I'm wrong, he's been a pretty well liked member of Congress in the district over the years. So like how, how are you differentiating yourself? How are you making the case that now is the time that actually he's. His time is up? Yeah, look Steve, correct me if I'm wrong, like he's. People like him, right? Like personally.

[Justin Pearson]

Sure. You know, you gotta, you gotta talk to him for more than than 10 seconds and, and there's new videos out that, that tell you who he really is. But look, he served for 20 years in Congress, 23, 24 years before that in the state Senate. He has done all that he possibly can do and he's done the best that he can do. And we can be grateful for his dec. Decades and Decades and decades of service while recognizing that we're in a different moment right now. And this moment requires us to participate, to engage, to fight back in a way that he really just does not have the ability to do right now. We need to have a new vision, we need to have new energy, we need to have a new direction. And I'm out every single day talking to constituents, talking to voters, and they're saying the same thing. Even if they voted for him in the past, they're just saying, you know what? It's time. There is complacency that you can have after you've been in office for so long that you're not able and you don't have the energy to bring the new ideas, to fight the way that we need for you to fight in this moment in time. And he, like so many other people with, who claim lots of seniority and lots of seniority, like look at where we are. That seniority, then snap benefits from being cut. That seniority isn't saving access to healthcare. That seniority isn't changing the things that are important to people in this district, such as the affordability crisis, the need for 44 affordable housing units, the fact that 38% of our kids are underneath the poverty line. Those are the issues that I think are becoming much more salient to people. And having someone who's done, you know, pretty much average job isn't going to be what voters want and what constituents are telling me that they want to have as we look ahead.

[Emily]

You know, it's funny when you talk about age and seniority more than, more than 20 years ago. How old are you?

[Justin Pearson]

You 30.

[Emily]

30. Okay. So you were, you were like nine years old. I was, I was a medical marijuana lobbyist and Tennessee was one of the states where I worked in. And I just cold called all the members of the legislature trying to find somebody to carry our bill. And Steve Cohen did it. He agreed. He agreed to do it. He ended up like using that as one of the things he ran on when he eventually ran for Congress. But yeah, you were, you would have been in like third or fourth grade trade at that time. So, you know, I, I think the age, the gerontocracy is certainly, I think an issue that's resonating with Democrats across the country. What about on the policy side? I know that you've been kind of a pretty aggressive critic of Israel's genocide. How do you compare your position there to Congressman Cohen?

[Listener/Caller]

One.

[Justin Pearson]

Yeah, one. My predecessor was 93 years old and I voted for her in the primary, and then she unfortunately passed away. And I voted for her even though she had died because she was better.

[Emily]

She was still on the ballot.

[Justin Pearson]

She was still on the ballot, and she was better then. Then even the person was running against her. And so I, I, I mean, yes, I know folks make a whole lot about the age issue, but it's just like some people still have the energy, still can do the work, still show up, still can fight, still can be serve as a conduit of feel like they deserve to have a position. They fight for it every single time. They never look down on you. They're never condescending. They're never trying to, you know, make you small, to make themselves big. There are people who are older, who have run for office who have done that. And that's not what we're seeing in our district in this race and with so many other people who I think are just clinging on to power not to be of service, but because they believe one reason or another that it is theirs and it doesn't belong to the people. But these seats that we serve in, it's a privilege to serve in. It is something that anyone owns that you can pass down or to pass to the next person. It is, it is something that we have to fight for every two years. When you're in the House for the, for the state or in Congress. Look, I, I will tell you this. I will never support the sending of money across and overseas for the bombing and the killing of people. It's just not something that I'm going to do. I, I am always frustrated that when I talk about the need for billions of dollars to tackle poverty, to tackle housing, afford resources to our veterans, because we have the most veterans in our district who are missing hundreds of millions of dollars over the last 20 years that my opponent's been in office, people look at me like I have three heads. But if you say we need to get some money to a country to bomb and to kill somebody overnight, Democrats and Republicans alike run back to the Capitol to be able to sign off on that, and I won't, because we have deeply entrenched social issues right here in our country. I've got people in my district whose houses are sinking into the country ground, people and kids. One out of five of our kids in this state are going to bed hungry. 38% of our kids underneath the poverty line. And you want me to send billions outside of this country? No, I won't do it. And so I don't support what we have been doing with the continual support for the military industrial congressional complex. And it's not something that I'm going to participate in to make. Make billionaires who are profiting off of these wars and more money. The money is not going to troops. It's going to these private contractors. And these private contractors are then funding the campaigns of elected officials and folks in Congress. I'm not supporting it.

[Krystal Ball]

Representative Pearson, can you hear me now?

[Justin Pearson]

I can.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, yay. Last question for you. And we'd love to have you back and, you know, keep track of your campaign as you progress, but we've got also Afton Bean Rating to speak with her as well. So it's a big Tennessee day. Yeah, that's great.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's great.

[Krystal Ball]

Exactly. Yeah, we're excited to speak with her as well. But I wanted to ask you, I. Memphis has been the center of some reporting from more Perfect Union and other outlets about the impact of data centers on the community there. And I wondered if you could speak to that and what your position would be with regard to AI in general and specifically data center construction and impact on local communities and electric bills.

[Justin Pearson]

Yeah, we have to be able to be intentional about the way AI data centers are being built, constructed, and the consequences that they have by putting people forward first. Right now, data centers are popping up in communities without any community input. And so we're finding that utility rates are skyrocketing. We're finding that people are dealing with noise pollution just like they are in South Haven where XAI is operating. The consequences of people's water and the water tables and the aquifers being completely depleted for this technology to exist for billionaires to make more billions of dollars. Right. It isn't about your life or my life improving. It's about them making more profits. We aren't seeing substantial benefits to these projects outside of maybe a little bit of the tax money. But our lives ultimately are not improving. And the question we have to ask ourselves is to what extent? Right when, What. What is the end goal here? And a lot of this artificial intelligence and automation is intended to deplete the workforce. And in our district, a lot of people work in warehouses, a lot of people work in jobs that you may not need a four year education for. And if you have AI, if you have robotics taking those jobs, jobs, we as elected leaders have not come up with a plan for what happens after. So there's an environmental consequence to our air, to our water, to our soil in some cases. And then there's the reality of what is this technology ultimately going to do to our communities. And if we don't have universal basic income, if we don't have the resources to take care of people after they lose their jobs, we are going to be in a very, very, very difficult situation as a country and in communities. And so this is one of the environmental justice and climate justice is one of the issues that is a priority, priority for our campaign and something I'll focus on in Congress as well.

[Krystal Ball]

Where can people support you if they're so inclined?

[Justin Pearson]

Yes, please support us. Go to votejustinj.com you can sign up to volunteer to donate and on social media at JustinJ Pearson. I'm so grateful to y'.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, great to great to get to speak with you. Thank you so much for taking the time.

[Justin Pearson]

Thank you so much. Let's keep going. I appreciate y'.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All.

[Krystal Ball]

Sounds good.

[Host/Interviewer]

All right. To keep the, the Tennessee flowing here, we've got another guest on the line. Let's bring her in. Hello. Hello.

[Krystal Ball]

Hi.

[Listener/Caller]

Thanks for having me.

[Host/Interviewer]

Hello. We've got State Rep. Afton Bain here on the show. What's going on? Afton, how are you doing today?

[Listener/Caller]

I'm happy to be here. It's a first time caller, longtime listener.

[Krystal Ball]

We love to hear that. A good start. Representative Bain, why don't you just start by telling us a little bit about the district that you're running for and you know who your opponent is and you know it's a very, very Republican district. I understand Trump won it by what, 20 plus points? Why you think you may have a shot to pull up a, pull off a big upset here?

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah. So I'm State Representative Afton Bain. I represent downtown Nashville and I've been in the Tennessee legislature for two years. This congressional special election came about because Representative Mark Green cashed in on his corporate checks, took a job in Guyana after voting for the big ugly bill and skip town and thus catalyzing a special election. It is the last flippable red to blue blue congressional special election in the entire country. If you all remember, in after redistricting in 2020, Nashville, which was a consolidated Democratic district, was cut into three. So this is one of those congressional districts and it includes the highest voter turnout precincts in Nashville. It includes our purple bellwether county of Montgomery, which is by the Kentucky border, includes Fort Campbell and goes all the way down to the Alabama border. Mark Green, when the redistrict in the aftermath of the redistricting said do not do this, it will backfire. And the backfiring is here it is an R +20 district, but our polling in October showed us six points down and we are shrinking those margins every day, which is why they've dropped $2 million in the race to try to prevent this upset from happening in the South. And this race is competitive for a few reasons. One is just the dissatisfaction from the federal administration that this administration has not delivered on the economic agenda it promised, promised. And two is the momentum is on our side. I'm a candidate who has never taken corporate PAC money nor will ever and don't answer to the special interest, as opposed to my opponent, who is a puppet to the puppet masters of the universe and has rubber stamped and only does things when the puppets masters tell him to do it. And the voters are recognizing that. So that's why this district has become suddenly really competitive.

[Emily]

Afton I've always thought that state legislators have a pretty unique. And city councilors to some degree too, but they're almost too low down. State legislators have a pretty like, unique window into, you know, how, how regular people are feeling about everything in general, but also politics in particular in a way that even federal lawmakers after they've been in Washington for a little bit too long, don't. And that people running for Congress for the first or second time also have kind of an advantage when it comes to, you know, what, what they're perceiving on the ground just a little bit more alive and awake to it. So what are you, like, what is the national media missing about, like, how people are feeling about the country, direction of the country right now? And what are we, what are we missing? Like, as somebody who's been watching this show for, for a while, I was.

[Listener/Caller]

Just pulling my Ryan grim book out of my. Sorry, I didn't know. I'm. Wow. I'm just fangirling right now. Big fans.

[Host/Interviewer]

Which one, Afton? Is it the drug one or is it the, is it the squad one?

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, no way. Oh, it's really right there.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's go into his hotness.

[Listener/Caller]

Oh man, I'm so honored. So I've been. I got my start as a community organizer in Tennessee organizing to expand Medicaid. And then during the 2017 Affordable Care act and medication, Medicaid cuts that fight. That fight. And I have been someone who's been trying to make healthcare more affordable in this state for a long time. And I think the paradigm is shifting and there's a few reasons for that. One is that we've had a Republican trifecta in the state for 15 years and it is not delivered for the Tennessee people. We are the most dangerous place for workers in the country. We have the highest maternal mortality rate in the country. We have the highest inflationary cost of groceries in the country. And they look around and there's no one else to blame, right? I mean, obviously they blame immigrants, but immigrants are not the reason our grocery prices are high. And I do think that the paradigm is shifting because the Republican trifecta has gotten lethargic. While they've been scapegoating and terrorizing, we have been building and caring for each other. We've been building the organizing muscle we need to actually win this election. And I think the affordability crisis is hitting everyone. I mean, it transcends geography fees. It transcends partisanship. I'm someone in the legislature who's fought to end Tennessee's regressive grocery tax by closing corporate tax loopholes. It's something I've been organizing around for the past three years. And I've built a base of people on either side that know that I stand against corporate rule and for the people. So there is a shift, and it is going to happen in Tennessee. And as W.E.B. dubois once said, as goes the south, so goes the nation.

[Host/Interviewer]

Afton. I'm in charge of drama clips. And there's a recent clip going around that we wanted to give you a platform to respond to this. You know, in our business, we call this, like, chimp clipping when it's clips out of context. This felt like an out of context clip. But I'll read a little bit of the quote here. Apparently you said, I hate the city. I hate the Tennessee Bachelorettes. I hate Pedal Taverns. I hate country music. I hate all the things that make Nashville. I hate it. Now in the audio, I mean, the.

[Krystal Ball]

Bachelorette part is a little bit fair, isn't it?

[Ryan Grim]

It's so fair.

[Krystal Ball]

Sure, you weigh in on that often.

[Host/Interviewer]

But what would you like to say about this clip that's floating around?

[Listener/Caller]

So I'm gonna say something I haven't said, and I. I think it's funny. I hope my parents don't kill me, but I do not hate country music. I was conceived after a George Strait concert singer I personally attacked, but it just shows. The New York Times reported that there's a 48 page dossier of me which includes, you know, clips. I had a podcast back in the day called Grits Girls Raised in the south, and I was lamenting about, you know, the things that are wrong with our city. Obviously taken out of context, obviously hyperbolic. And I don't feel that way at all. I have spent the past decade of my life pouring blood, sweat and tears into my city and my state to make it better for working people. And I think I, I think it's backfiring. I mean, they really just, they're digging, they're digging, they're digging deep. And clearly they, they, they've dug. They. Yeah, I don't know. They haven't dug far enough.

[Ryan Grim]

I guess about a year ago. Oh, sorry, I was gonna say about a year ago, almost exactly. We had Zoran Momdani on the show and Nobo, who he was at the time. I forget whether Griffin or Ryan gets the credit for that booking, but I remember we were asking him, it was right after the 2024 election, about his pitch, if he was talking to any of those people who swung for Trump in the 2024 election around New York City and some of the boroughs. And he said, in fact, just over the weekend, he had been out talking to people and trying to pitch himself actually to Trump voters, which is something that Democrats were very reluctant to do during the first Trump administration. And in the interim. So how are you, Are you finding that when you talk to people who are Republicans, Trump voters, you're able to connect with them on your policy agenda?

[Listener/Caller]

So, as a state legislator, I've worked really hard, obviously, Trump handedly won Tennessee, and I have worked really hard to create entry points for people waking up to the fact that they've been scammed by this economic agenda. And it's important right now, especially in the south, under authoritarian capture, we have to create entry points to broaden our coalition of people who believe, believe that democracy needs to be restored. And so I think that I do have cross partisan appeal. I will say that my worst enemies do say that I'm likable and authentic, and I'll take it. And for the culture, I've really tried to. Obviously, I've got my own politics, but I don't equivocate. And my Republican colleagues in the legislature, they said, even if I don't agree with you, I know where you stand on the issues, and that's where my constituents know I stand. And finally, just the special interest interest, we're seeing a wave of Democrats in the south that aren't beholden to these corporate entities. And it's extremely popular. And I've been endorsed by End Citizens United. I will fight to end dark money in politics. And that's something that absolutely resonates across party lines.

[Krystal Ball]

Sorry, let me, let me ask you A tactical question here. So some of the thinking, you know, from people who, like me, who aren't in the district was like, maybe if people there don't really notice there's an election going on, maybe she could sneak through. Because, you know, it's very typical, difficult district, even as I think people can see what a. What a compelling and extraordinary candidate that you are. And so some of us got a little nervous when we saw that Kamala Harris was coming to the district. She's obviously very polarizing figure and would certainly draw a lot of attention to the race. So I'm curious, your view on her coming in the. You know, the reason the decision was made to, you know, to have her come in and how. What impact do you think that has on the race?

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah, I mean, she. I'm grateful for any support from anyone across the country. The south has been historically disinvested. Disinvested in. And I know that uniquely and innately as a Southern organizer, so any support is welcomed. The district does include North Nashville, which is historically black communities. And so to see the faces of those HBCU students that have never seen a political figure like that in our city, it was really rewarding to see the smiles on their faces.

[Krystal Ball]

Cases.

[Listener/Caller]

But I'm also someone who has. I've never been the political insider. I've never been the chosen party candidate. And so I think in my political career, my trajectory, most people that I've worked with know that. And so if it, you know, if my party's not doing the right thing, then I will. You know, I'm not beholden to them in any way. And there are multiple times in the legislature that I voted with my constituents over my own beliefs and biases. So I'm definitely someone that is welcome to community feedback and will represent the interest of her district over that of the party.

[Emily]

What are the. What are the ads like in the home stretch? Are they hammering the. Like, I hate the bachelorettes and I hate Memphis. Like, what are you seeing blanket the airwaves? And what's your. What's your ad like? How much. How many resources, like, do you have the resources you need to, like, compete down the stretch? And so what's the. What's the final competition look like?

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah, so the ad they're running just some background. In May, we had a massive, unprecedented ICE operation with our Tennessee Highway Patrol. They worked clandestinely to pull over 369 community members, of which were my constituents. And prior to that, I'm a social worker. And so I had been conducting a community needs assessment in the most Hispanic part of my district. And they said, we don't feel like our elected officials are doing enough, and we think racial profiling is the number one issue of our concern. So I took that as a mandate, and when I showed up, I decided to monitor their activities in my district. I recorded a video that then Representative Andy Ogles retweeted and called for my arrest. The Department of Homeland Security then retweeted it and called for my arrest. There was an incident at the legislature where someone tried to follow me into the building in a ski mask and gloves. I basically had to go underground for three weeks. And so I say that because that's the video they're promulgating, that I'm against law enforcement, which is not true. And they, you know, it's the federal overreach right now that we're seeing. And I find it satirical that people who have lauded small government for so long are suddenly okay with masked federal agents pulling people out of cars in front of their kids for them never to be seen again. So that's the video they're using. It's. Although they have chosen some cute photos of me, so I will. I'll hand that to them.

[Emily]

That's unusual.

[Krystal Ball]

Not all bad. Yeah, not all bad.

[Listener/Caller]

Not all bad. But what's interesting about this race, and then our videos are. The first one was on a mechanical bull in Nashville, and it's. There's a billionaire on the mechanical bull, and it's like, you know, they get a free ride in Washington, and then all Tennesseeans are being thrown off as statistics are being read. And we've got another one dropping in in on Monday. The spending has been. We've obviously been outnumbered three to one, but I hope the cavalry is coming because this race is super, super, super tight. The polling on both sides is showing it, and that's why they're coming hard for me. But it is a race that's winnable, and I'm just really honored to be the. The Democratic nominee.

[Krystal Ball]

And afton a few things before we let you go that'll be important to our audience, and I'll just give them all to you. And you can. I have a feeling you're not gonna have any trouble fielding these. No APAC or other Israel lobby money oppose the genocide, would block future weapons sales to. To Israel.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah. I've been outspoken against. You know, I voted in the Tennessee legislature to ensure no foreign interference in our elections, and I think that it obviously extends to Israel. And I've spoken out numerous times on the House floor against this. So I do have a track record.

[Emily]

What's the, what, what would reelection look like? Is this a one and done situation? Like how do you, how do you stay in office if you get in there?

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah, the mechanics are tough. Right. Because the, the aftermath of, unless we can build a coalition of people who will reverse the Medicaid cuts, whoever's in office next year is going to be blamed for the aftermath of this bill that passed in July. And I'm not naive to that. I think what it would take is a cavalry of a cadre of social workers. Right. Because people are going to be disenrolled from Medicare, Medicaid, ssdi. Right. And you're going to have to be be re enrolling people in these public benefits. Additionally, I think it's going to take a lot of effort to combat the mis and disinformation. Right. And it's going to have to be localized organizing. So we're going to have to have really embedded field staff within these counties and I'm going to have to go into the lion's den and these rural county Republican parties and hopefully make my case. Like, you know, I know you're going to probably spend hundreds of millions of dollars douse me next year, but please give me a chance because I promise, like, even if I, even if I'm not agreeing with you, like, I'm happy to have a conversation and I welcome the relationship.

[Ryan Grim]

Right.

[Listener/Caller]

All right, well.

[Host/Interviewer]

Oh, okay. Sorry. Go Ryan. Last question. Ryan.

[Emily]

Yeah. Just to Emily's point, like, what is the thing that works the best with these Trump, Trump supporters who are open?

[Listener/Caller]

It's, I have, I've knocked thousands of doors in Tennessee about, and have spent, spoken to about really contentious issues and it's creating, it's sowing seeds of cognitive dissonance that you don't force down their throats. Right. And so I think if we can just continue to highlight how this agenda isn't working and build the entry points, they can come off. But I've said this with my whole chest from day one, is that immigrants are not the reason your grocery prices are high. And when they come back with, well, you know, all these questions, it's like that's, that's not the reason you're struggling. Like, you know, anytime the culture war reaction, it's like, well, is that going to fix i24, which is our highway? Is that going to build another hospital? Right. And I've been dogged about that and I hope it's, I really Hope it's resonating with the district. And as one of my conservative talk show radio host friends, which I go on conservative talk radio, said, you know, you're a lot like Trump. I was like, say more, please.

[Ryan Grim]

You've got great hair.

[Listener/Caller]

And he goes, you're authentic. And people know that I'm the same person I was in fifth grade, that I am as a legislator, that I will be as your congresswoman. And you know where I'm going to stand on that. And just briefly, hearing President Trump mention my name was probably the highlight of this campaign. And I thought he was going to be like, Ivanka's way cuter than Afton Bain, blah, blah, blah, she's not a real blonde. But no, he said, went the historical conventional route, which was I'm a left wing lunatic. So that's, yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Standard issue, fair from there.

[Host/Interviewer]

Anyone else got any final questions?

[Krystal Ball]

If anybody wants to be part of that cavalry coming in here, help you get across the finish line, where can they, where can they support you? And I guess I was curious, you know, how I think early voting has started. What indications are you getting there real quick?

[Listener/Caller]

It's so close, and trust me, I'm, I'm a jaded electoral organizer as well. I've been. One must imagine Sisyphus happy right as he's rolling the boulder up the hill in a state like Tennessee. We are so close. And it's going to come down to turnout in Nashville, and it's going to come out down to sporadic voters who historically don't vote but need to be excited. So if you're in Nashville, please, please, please check your voter registration, see if you're registered to vote in the 7th Congressional District. Aftonforcongress.com, we've got phone banking. It is, I want to say, 12 days until election Day. And I just, I don't know, I've, I've, I've been really jaded and this is the first time that I've been excited. And we are, I think we're inspiring a country and I'm just really honored to be the nominee at this moment in time in American and Southern political history.

[Krystal Ball]

Amazing.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, and the, the podcast is Grits. That's the podcast. Never mind the podcast. The podcast is Breaking Points. Thank you, Afton. And people can. We'll put the link in the description video if people want to learn more about you. And thank you and good luck.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, thanks.

[Listener/Caller]

See you on the other end.

[Krystal Ball]

You got it.

[Emily]

Always great to have a Breaking Points viewer on.

[Ryan Grim]

I love it when people are starstruck by Ryan. I was walking around.

[Krystal Ball]

Very common.

[Ryan Grim]

Walking around the DNC with Ryan was an experience.

[Emily]

That's funny. Well, in other words, she has no chance. Nobody who is a fan of this show.

[Krystal Ball]

And things are changing, Ryan. Things are changing. Times are change. She's got. I mean, that's a tough district. Very tough district. But you can see why people are excited about. I mean, she's very impressive. Like, she's knows what she is all about. Not afraid to say it. Like, very excellent candidate. So be interesting to see. She's. If she's able to pull it off, it would be. Oh my God, it'd be insane. You know.

[Emily]

I mean, also there are parts of Nashville that are just like overrun by tourist garbage. I assume that's what it means.

[Ryan Grim]

It's absolutely true. Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, yeah.

[Emily]

Who in Nashville would disagree agree with that?

[Krystal Ball]

True Nashville. I mean, that would be like New Yorkers being offended by like saying that Times Square sucks, you know, like. No, the true New Yorkers, like. Yeah, we avoid it. Like the play, obviously.

[Ryan Grim]

You know, watch out.

[Krystal Ball]

I think a lot of.

[Host/Interviewer]

I love, I love the Eminem store Fridays.

[Ryan Grim]

The Eminem store.

[Host/Interviewer]

There's a. There's a raising canes there. That is apocalyptic.

[Ryan Grim]

The Virgil is in Times Square was fun.

[Justin Pearson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

So I don't know. Speak for yourself.

[Krystal Ball]

I've been there with my kids a number of times and it was. It was hellish. Every. Every single.

[Ryan Grim]

I've been on Bachelorette pedal pubs.

[Host/Interviewer]

Wow.

[Ryan Grim]

I've done the.

[Host/Interviewer]

You are the problem enemy number one.

[Krystal Ball]

Problem.

[Ryan Grim]

Not by choice, not by choice, not by choice.

[Krystal Ball]

I didn't even know what a pedal pub was. But now that you say it, I understand what it is.

[Host/Interviewer]

You, like bike and drink, right?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

You don't really bike. I mean, they have pedals, but you're not really pedaling.

[Host/Interviewer]

You're not even pedaling.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Wow.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. But the Austinization of Nashville is not just complete, but even on another level. Yeah. And it's become this like sort of corporate. It's very like Atlanta coated now. Like a very heavy. You know, like a lot of people who are from New York and Los Angeles now in Nashville.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, I. When I lived in Kentucky, I spent a decent amount of time in Tennessee. Not just in Nashville, actually around the state. And it truly is actually one of my favorite states. It's. It's natural beauty wise. It's extraordinary. And Nashville is like. I mean, it's fun and kitschy or whatever. But. Yeah, I could see being annoyed if you are actually from there by the Bachelorettes and some of that stuff. So I.

[Host/Interviewer]

And again, I got. I gotta say, I think she was being sarcastic. You know, this is another podcaster and coming up in Power. So, you know, we can't always, we can't talk about old clips and people transform their new Trump voters podcast though.

[Krystal Ball]

I bet it was good. Yeah, I bet it was good. She's got. She's got it, man. I bet it was she and the I've had it ladies, they need to hang out.

[Ryan Grim]

I was gonna say that would go hard.

[Krystal Ball]

I knew it goes so hard. I'm definitely gonna. I'm gonna hit Jennifer up after this and be like, I've got someone you need to have on.

[Host/Interviewer]

All right, on that note, we are going to head over to the second half of the show where we've got a bunch more news and AMA questions to talk about. Of course, that's breakingpoints.com if you want to see. Sign up and get the full show. Anything else before we head out? Nope. All right, see you guys on the other side. Bye. With Venmo Stash, a taco in one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back. Nice.

[Justin Pearson]

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[Host/Interviewer]

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[Justin Pearson]

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[Host/Interviewer]

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[Krystal Ball]

The weather outside is frightful. The fire is so delightful. Delightful. And you're living your best holiday life.

[Listener/Caller]

In Old Navy jingle jammies. Because honestly, it's not the season without them.

[Krystal Ball]

They're instant spirit wrapped in flannel. Get the whole family in matching sets.

[Listener/Caller]

For the photo, the cocoa and the big morning.

[Krystal Ball]

Old Navy has the classics like plaid.

[Listener/Caller]

And plenty of fun new options too, including exclusive Disney prints. Think Mickey and friends, Stitch and Angel. Even Star Wars Jammies.

[Krystal Ball]

Find Jingle Jammies and all your festive.

[Listener/Caller]

Favorites [e-mail] com this is an iHeart podcast.