1/12/26: Trump Threatens Jerome Powell, JD Vance Attacks Ryan, Tim Dillon Sounds Off On ICE, Iran War

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode: 1/12/26 – Trump Threatens Jerome Powell, JD Vance Attacks Ryan, Tim Dillon Sounds Off On ICE, Iran War
Date: January 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode, hosted by Krystal Ball and Ryan Grim (with Saagar away), tackles a momentous week in American politics. The hosts dissect:

• Donald Trump’s move to prosecute Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, raising alarms about Fed independence and financial market fallout.
• The killing of Renee Goode by an ICE agent, subsequent right-wing defenses, and the increasingly radical posture of federal law enforcement.
• Senator JD Vance’s public spat with Ryan Grim over the ICE shooting, exposing deep divides and misinformation in political discourse.
• Comedian Tim Dillon’s surprising on-air condemnation of the ICE killing.
• Growing tensions with Iran, Trump’s ambiguous red lines, and the potential for U.S. military escalation.
• The rising legitimacy crisis of federal institutions and the dangers of unchecked executive power.

The hosts promise a forthcoming, in-depth interview with Senator Chris Van Hollen, though the detailed transcript of this segment was not included.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump vs. Powell: Threats to Fed Independence and Market Turmoil

[05:25] Ryan Grim:
Jerome Powell released a statement declaring that the Trump administration, via the DOJ, has threatened a criminal indictment relating to Powell’s Senate testimony about cost overruns in Fed building renovations. Powell emphasized that this action is about political pressure to direct monetary policy.

“This new threat is not about my testimony last June... The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment... rather than following the preferences of the President.”
— Jerome Powell, read by Ryan Grim ([06:36])

Financial Impact:
Markets responded violently: stock futures tanked, the dollar depreciated, and gold prices surged to a record high. Wall Street's fear is the loss of Fed independence, potentially leading to monetary decisions dictated by the White House.

Political Context:
Trump’s fury stems, in part, from a summer 2025 confrontation where Powell reportedly embarrassed the president over renovation costs (“You just added in another building... That’s a third building... That’s why costs went up,” [09:29]).

Broader Implications:
Krystal Ball decries the overt use of DOJ as “Trump’s personal weapon of political retribution” ([10:46]), and notes even some Republicans are balking. Senator Thom Tillis (R-NC) has vowed to block Fed nominations until the issue is resolved ([14:06]), raising new institutional crises.

“I've always believed there should be more democratic control around the Fed. This is not democratic control, though. This is Trump of a monarch.”
— Ryan Grim ([15:29])

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2. The ICE Killing of Renee Goode and Federal Response

Background:
ICE agent Jonathan Ross shot and killed Renee Goode during a protest in Minneapolis. The administration immediately labeled Goode a “domestic terrorist,” and right-wing figures, notably Senator JD Vance, staunchly defended Ross.

Ryan Grim vs. JD Vance Twitter Clash ([19:10–21:40]): Ryan described the agent’s actions as “psychotic,” emphasizing that Goode was unarmed, shot through her side window, called “an effing bitch,” and left to die. JD Vance countered, accusing Grim (and the left) of lying about the facts, insisting Ross fired in self-defense and was directly threatened.

“These people are incapable of not lying about this... The shots came from the front of the car because that's where the officer was standing when he was hit by the car.” — JD Vance, read by Krystal ([19:45])

Ryan painstakingly refutes Vance’s version by pointing out the falsehoods (number/location of bullet holes, officer’s position, and “self-defense” claim).

Video Analysis and Right-Wing Spin ([21:40–24:05]): The hosts analyze the bodycam/phone footage—finding no evidence the agent was hit by the car. Instead, the right seems to focus on the victims’ identities (“liberal lesbian women”) to justify or dismiss the killing.

“For a rabid online movement like the New Right... the fact that they look like they're liberal and they're lesbians means they deserved it.” — Krystal Ball ([23:51])

Federal Response:
Authorities, including Kristi Noem and ICE higher-ups, parroted terms like “domestic terrorist” and manufactured supporting details (“stalked officers all day,” “attempted to run them over”) that the timeline and video evidence largely debunk ([27:16–30:25]). The investigation has been sidetracked by the FBI blocking state officials, deepening calls of cover-up ([49:26]).

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3. ICE Brutality, Growing Reform Demands, and Tim Dillon’s Rebuke

Escalating ICE Brutality:
The episode catalogs recent, egregious ICE abuses—more shootings (including in Portland), agents endangering bystanders, and reckless behavior caught on camera ([51:00–63:18]). Whistleblowing around organizational culture, abysmal training standards, and impunity (bolstered by administration rhetoric) intensifies public anger.

Rising Backlash and Calls for Abolition ([38:46]): Krystal notes that “Abolish ICE” is edging toward mainstream status, with new polling showing most Americans view ICE as excessively violent and out of control. Democratic state governments and activists are mobilizing, and ICE’s local legitimacy is eroding.

Tim Dillon’s Viral Condemnation ([54:36–56:44]): Comedian Tim Dillon, no liberal, shocked audiences by denouncing the ICE agent and the shooting's justifications:

“I don't believe from the angle I'm watching that the federal officer feared for his life... He could have shot the tires, they could have done other things. This idea that they have to just shoot them in the head...”
— Tim Dillon ([54:36])

He lambasted the agency’s low hiring standards and compared agents to “people that did backyard wrestling... people in their third grade report card, the teacher wrote that has violent tendencies.”

Krystal’s Response:
Krystal notes both poor training and the possibility of “officer-created jeopardy”—that agents intentionally provoke lethal situations to justify deadly force. The indifference post-shooting and blocking of medical care (“none of them thought she was worthy of life” [59:27]) is taken as proof of an in-group vs. out-group, morally bankrupt worldview.

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4. Weaponization of “Domestic Terror” Labels

Tom Homan on Protesters ([42:03–44:16]):
Former ICE head Tom Homan floated the administration’s rationale for labeling nearly any ICE protester as a domestic terrorist, stretching the term so broadly as to capture mere ideological dissent.

Krystal:
“They genuinely want to define any protesters, like anyone who disagrees with how they do what they do... in their opinion, that’s illegitimate.”

Ryan:
“Some elements of the administration have called the Democratic Party like domestic terrorists.”

— Ryan Grim ([44:16])

Legitimacy Crisis:
Krystal warns this campaign targets all opposition:
“This is about the way... they want this country to be and operate... the largest law enforcement agency by budget in history... Trump asking for a $1.5 trillion defense budget... They want to concentrate resources in a police, surveillance, and military state.”
— ([48:46])

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5. Political Fallout for JD Vance and MAGA Movement

Ryan and Krystal argue that JD Vance's overzealous defense of ICE ("least popular element of this version of Trumpism") positions him vulnerably for future political ambitions. Even AOC, they note, has countered with the simple line: “I don’t think Americans should be shot in the face,” sharpening the out-of-touch stance of Vance ([39:20–41:16]).

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6. Looming War with Iran – Red Lines and Escalation Rhetoric

Trump’s Mixed Messages ([63:23–69:19]):
Trump, on Air Force One, claims Iran “wants to negotiate” but says the U.S. might need to “act” first—leaving open the question of new military strikes or war. The ostensible trigger is Iranian suppression of protesters, yet the red line is shifting and undefined.

“Iran called. They want to negotiate... we may have to act because of what’s happening before the meeting.” — (Trump, paraphrased by Ryan Grim, [64:03])

Lindsey Graham, meanwhile, signals anticipation for imminent conflict:

“It's just a matter of time... We need to end this for the good people of Iran and... Israel. We need to take this guy down. He needs to leave. Standing up or laying down, I don't care.” — Lindsey Graham ([66:56])

Krystal vents regret for ever doubting “resistance liberals’” warnings about Trump’s temperament, suggesting the administration’s approach is worse than neoconservatism—“law of the jungle, might makes right” ([67:36–69:19]).

Protests, Regime Violence, and External Meddling:

• Over 500 protesters and over 100 Iranian security forces reportedly killed; accurate counts are elusive due to mass internet shutdowns and regime repression.
• Israel and US-linked groups (e.g. MEK) suspected of supporting unrest and spreading disinformation.
• The protests, triggered by systemic economic collapse (intensified by US sanctions), are now increasingly violent, with external actors seeking destabilization over regime change ([72:30–79:14]).

Krystal and Ryan express skepticism about both the justifications for US intervention and official narratives about protester motives and casualties.

“I don't really see any other affirmative case being made for why this is in our interest at all.”
— Krystal Ball ([73:46])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Trump’s DOJ weaponization:

“Trump sees the DOJ as his personal weapon of political retribution... It is incredibly overt. In any other time, in any other administration, would be a massive front-page scandal for weeks, if not months, if not years.”
— Krystal Ball ([10:46])

On the ICE killing and official self-justification:

“So it's not an accident that this is the way they approach it... we will make shit up on your behalf. You can do whatever you want and we will defend it... It's completely disconnected from reality. It doesn't matter if there's a video.”
— Krystal Ball ([31:10])

On the danger of unchecked power:

“He claims the powers of the monarch, that the only limits to his power are his own morality is the quote. So they don't accept the idea that there should be one standard of justice.”
— Krystal Ball ([35:06])

On the limits of public tolerance for authoritarian tactics:

“Abolish ice, which used to be, you know, sort of a fringe sentiment is creeping up on a majority position.”
— Krystal Ball ([38:46])

Tim Dillon on ICE agents:

“These are not well-trained law enforcement people... We are taking people that did backyard wrestling... this is your cousin who was in backyard wrestling. This is people. In their third-grade report card, the teacher wrote that has violent tendencies.”
— Tim Dillon ([55:31])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 05:25 – Powell addresses prosecution and Fed independence
• 06:36 – Reading of Powell’s statement on threats to Fed
• 10:46 – Krystal on DOJ as instrument of revenge
• 14:06 – GOP Senator Tillis blocks Fed nominees
• 19:10 – JD Vance vs. Ryan Grim Twitter fight over ICE shooting
• 21:40 – Detailed breakdown of shooting video
• 27:16 – Kristi Noem, administration, and manufactured facts
• 38:46 – “Abolish ICE” polling, mainstreaming opposition
• 54:36 – Tim Dillon denounces officer in viral podcast clip
• 63:23 – Trump on Air Force One: Iran war ambiguity begins
• 66:56 – Lindsey Graham’s war anticipation speech
• 69:19 – Krystal: Administration worse than neocons
• 72:30–79:14 – Iran: external meddling, protester perspectives

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Tone and Style

The episode is combative, wry, and unflinching: Krystal and Ryan channel anger, skepticism, and dark humor as they dissect what they see as radical right-wing overreach, the mainstreaming of authoritarianism, political hypocrisy, and an escalating legitimacy crisis for American institutions.

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Conclusion

This Breaking Points episode provides an urgent, deeply critical account of the week’s defining political battles: Trump’s attacks on the Fed; the ICE killing and its grotesque rationalization by powerful elites; fissures within the Republican Party over executive overreach; and the looming threat of another Middle East war. It’s an episode that lays bare how normalization of political violence, impunity, and reality distortion by those in power can spark mass backlash, institutional breakdown, and moral outrage across the political spectrum.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. A new year doesn't ask us to become someone new. It invites us back home to ourselves. I'm Mike De la Rocha, host of Sacred Lessons, a space for men to pause, reflect and heal. This year, we're talking honestly about mental health, relationships, and the patterns we're ready to release. If you're looking for clarity, connection, and healthier ways to show up in your life, Sacred Lessons is here for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Delaroach on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Grim]

Hola, I am Jorge Ramos. This week on the Moment, we take a look at Venezuela's uncertain future in a conversation with two people who have directly advised US Presidents Juan Gonzalez during the Obama and Biden administrations.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

We're really good at invading countries. We're very bad at nation building in.

[Ryan Grim]

Carlos de Rosillo during Trump's two terms. I can guarantee you that nobody in the Trump administration likes Delsey Rodriguez. Listen to the Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola ramos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Krystal Ball]

Hey, guys, Sager and Krystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Ryan Grim]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left.

[Krystal Ball]

And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Ryan Grim]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

Hope to see [e-mail].

[Krystal Ball]

Good morning, everybody. Happy Monday. Welcome to Breaking Points. A little bit of an unusual pairing today. I don't actually remember if we've ever done this in studio together.

[Ryan Grim]

I think we have over the years.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, I know We've done the show together, but maybe like, remotely. But anyway, this is exciting.

[Ryan Grim]

The real heads will have to look through the record books and try to figure it out.

[Krystal Ball]

They'll remember better than I will.

[Ryan Grim]

We all love the premise of the show, hearing from both sides, but sometimes you just kind of get sick of that. Right.

[Krystal Ball]

Sometimes you don't really want to hear from the other side. No. There is a very specific reason why it's Ryan and me. Today. We actually have Senator Chris Van Hollen on, which is going to change the format of the show a little bit. Ryan secured that booking. I've been really wanting to talk to Senator Van Hollen. So Sager graciously said, hey, you guys just handle the show so that we can do all of that. So we're gonna make sure to save a good bit of time to speak with the senator, who has been at the forefront of any number of significant issues. He's been pushing back on Schumer. He's obviously led the charge in terms of a lot of foreign policy, been very courageous with regard to Gaza, with regard to Kilmar Abrego Garcia. So wanna talk to him about a whole range of issues. Also, Ryan has a weird. Because, of course he does. A weird personal connection with Chris Van Hollen. You want to save that for the interview or you want to give it to.

[Ryan Grim]

We can save it. Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay.

[Ryan Grim]

So stick around.

[Krystal Ball]

Other things. We're going to try to get through all of this in the show. We may go through these things a little bit more quickly than we normally do because we are trying to get to that interview with Senator Van Hollen. But we have a big fight that's broken out now between the Fed chair, Jerome Powell and Donald Trump. The DOJ is investigating Powell now for some sort of criminal malfeasance with regards to the Fed headquarters renovation. And Powell is firing back. So we've got our eyes on the markets. That is a massive, massive development. We'll break that down for you. We've got big developments with regard to ice, including very own again, Ryan Grim fighting with the Vice President of the United States, so. Well, more accurately, him fighting with you.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, that's true.

[Krystal Ball]

He picked the fight he started.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, I called him psychotic.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, that's true. That is true. But in any case. So we'll dig into that, but there are a lot more details to come out there as well. And also surging, you know, ICE brutality across the entire country. We've got Tim Dillon weighing in with his thoughts on the killing of Renee Goode. We've got potential war with Iran and Trump making some new comments there. And then we have that aforementioned interview with Senator Chris Van Hollen. So lot to get into. If you guys enjoy the show, please Support [e-mail] and also if you cannot sign up for a premium subscription, totally get it. It would help us a lot if you guys subscribe to the channel. So if you're watching the clips and you haven't subscribed to the channel, please subscribe to the channel. Helps us in the algorithm. We really appreciate it.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And supposedly YouTube is starting to care again about subscriptions.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, really?

[Ryan Grim]

For a long time, YouTube, it was just a fake button that would. That just, like, made creators feel good that I have X number of subscriptions. But they didn't care what you subscribed to. They were gonna feed you what they thought would make you mad. Their algorithm would decide you had no real say about what you subscribed to or not. Supposedly they're going back on that.

[Krystal Ball]

Your algorithm, their choice, you might say.

[Ryan Grim]

What they're saying now is okay, actually, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna actually start taking into account what you have affirmatively told us you're interested in. So if you tell them you're interested in this show, they'll think about, they'll.

[Krystal Ball]

Consider maybe serving you a few more clips. Show it is also good for our egos. So that we appreciate that too.

[Ryan Grim]

That's true.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, Ryan, you want to break down this chair situation?

[Ryan Grim]

So last night, Jerome Powell put out a. Let's just roll a one here. This is Jerome Powell saying that on Friday he was basically served with papers that Trump is trying to prosecute him. On Friday, the Department of justice served the Federal Reserve with grand jury subpoenas threatening a criminal indictment related to my testimony before the Senate Banking Committee last June. That testimony concerned, in part, a multi year project to renovate historic Federal Reserve office buildings. I have deep respect for the rule of law and for accountability in our democracy. No one, certainly not the chair of the Federal Reserve, is above the law. But this unprecedented action should be seen in the broader context of the administration's threats and ongoing pressure. This new threat is not about my testimony last June or about the renovation of the Federal Reserve buildings. It is not about Congress's oversight role. The Fed, through testimony and other public disclosures, made every effort to keep Congress informed about the renovation project. Those are pretexts. The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates. Based on our best assessment of what will serve the public rather than following the preferences of the President. This is about whether the Fed will be able to continue to set interest rates based on evidence and economic conditions, or whether instead, monetary policy will be directed to by political pressure or intimidation. I have served at the Federal Reserve under four administrations, Republicans and Democrats alike. In every case, I have carried out my duties without political fear or favor, focused solely on our mandate of price stability and maximum employment. Public service sometimes requires standing firm in the face of threats. I will continue to do the job the Senate confirmed me to do with integrity and a commitment to serving the American people. And the financial fallout of this, the economic fallout, I'll read just straight from the Wall Street Journal. Stock futures fell, the dollar weakened, and gold prices jumped to a record after Fed Chair Powell said President Trump was seeking to press the central bank into cutting interest rates. The market moves.

[Krystal Ball]

Gold bugs really vindicated under this administration.

[Ryan Grim]

If you bought gold. Yes. Every day you're feeling better and better. The market moves point to reinvigorated concerns about Fed independence. And it says that tech are leading the crash in futures because tech stocks rely most heavily on interest rates. On interest rates and easy money. And so because they don't think. Clearly, a market doesn't think that, oh, well, he's prosecuting Powell. He's gonna get exactly what he wants. Cause if they thought that, then, like, oh, okay, let's buy, buy, buy. But instead, they're kind of shaken by this. We were talking about this earlier. You were pointing out that this was. This is kind of Trump airing out his grievance from last summer, where Powell kind of embarrassed him in front of the cameras. When, you know, Trump likes to dress down his subordinates and loves to then, you know, just be praised by them. Or they sit there silently and take it. Powell didn't do that. So let's roll. I think it's the third element here. A3. This is summer of 2025, and Tim has been with me for a long time, and you're in charge of the committee. Indeed. One of the reasons why I wanted to see it was the overruns of the expenses. One to figure out why. So we're taking a look, and it looks like it's about 3.1 billion. It went up a little bit or a lot. So the 2.7 is now 3.1. And I'm not aware of that. Yeah, it just came out that. Yeah, I haven't heard that from anybody at the Fed. Our notes had it about 3.1 as well. 3.1.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

3.2.

[Ryan Grim]

This came from us. Yes. I don't know who does that. You're including the Martin renovation. You just added capital. You just, you just added in a third building, is what that is. That's a third building. Whatever. It's a building that's being built. It's been, it was built five years ago. We finished Martin five years. It's part of the overall work. So. So we're going to take a look. We're going to see what's happening and it's got a long way. Do you expect any more additional crossovers? Don't expect them.

[Krystal Ball]

We're.

[Ryan Grim]

We're ready for them, but we, we have a little bit of a reserve that we may use. But no, we don't expect to be finished in 2027. We're well along, as you can see. Nice to take these off every once in a while. Okay, so the Fed did a renovation project. Trump thinks it's too expensive. Probably is. All renovation projects are. And now in order to make that case, he shows Powell this letter. Powell figures out immediately, you just threw in another building.

[Krystal Ball]

You just added in this other building that was completed years ago.

[Ryan Grim]

I'm not a developer, but if you add in another building that does increase the cost.

[Krystal Ball]

That's true.

[Ryan Grim]

That you can put on a piece of paper.

[Krystal Ball]

That's my understanding of how this works as well. Well, and so there's both a. So, I mean, obviously government agencies go over budget all the time. Renovations go over budget all the time. What makes this even theoretical crime? They're investigating whether he lied to Congress about the possible cost overruns. And so, you know, there's the political aspect of this, the retribution campaign. Obviously, Powell is not the first for Trump to try to go after. It has not been that successful yet, which I think is something that we should all be heartened by. They've tried to gin up these, like, mortgage fraud claims against Letitia James and others. Those have not really gone anywhere. Bunch of these things have gotten thrown out of court. Now they're going after Letitia James again. This time they're investigating something to do with her hairdresser. I mean, very obviously this is not about going after, like, we've got to find the worst criminals and the worst malfeasance and go after those people they're pardoning. They're looking to go after Trump's political enemies. It is incredibly overt. It is the sort of thing that in any other time, in any other administration, would be a massive front page scandal for weeks, if not Months, if not years. I still remember the whole thing about the IRS allegedly targeting Tea Party groups and not being independent and all of that, and that, what was it, a conversation between Clinton and. Who was it at the time, who was Attorney general? I mean, these things were, like, massive scandals, and now it's just out in the open. Trump sees the DOJ as his personal weapon of political retribution. He's mad at Powell because he didn't. Wasn't sufficiently slavish in that exchange, and most critically, because he hasn't done what Trump wants him to do with regard to interest rates. So there's that piece, and then, of course, there's the financial piece. So the Fed is supposed to be independent from the executive. Now, I think there is an argument to be made over whether that is the correct structure or not. However, in my opinion, Trump is pushing me more in the other direction. I was more open to it before. Now I'm like, do I want Donald Trump to be setting the monetary policy and the interest rates? No, I do not. No, I do not want that situation. And I don't think that Wall street is excited about that possibility either, which is why you see this. This market crash. The other thing, Ryan is like, Powell's term is up in May. You only have to wait this like it's a few more months, right?

[Ryan Grim]

What are you doing?

[Krystal Ball]

Why now? But so, and I think that's where you're flagging of this. You know, this moment that they exchanged and just him sort of like, hating Powell personally, where that really comes into the mix as well, because he's gonna be able to have his person, his, like, toady loyalist, who's gonna be vetted for, you know, his willingness to do whatever Trump wants him to do in a matter of months. Very likely this, if anything, throws a wrench into his ability to get that person. Put a two up on the screen. Thom Tillis, who is a Republican, but he's retiring Republican representing North Carolina, says if there's any remaining doubt whether advisors within the Trump administration are actively pushing to end the independence of the Fed, there should be now none. It is now the independence and credibility of the Department of Justice that are in question. And this is the critical part. I will oppose the confirmation of any nominee for the Fed, including the upcoming Fed Chair vacancy, until this legal matter is filed, fully resolved. So you now have at least one Republican saying, I am not going along with anyone until this whole thing is put to bed.

[Ryan Grim]

And why this matters is that he's on the Senate Banking Committee, where the Fed appointees would have to go. So is Chris Van Hollen. We could ask him about the dynamics there when he's here later. But that means that if he votes no, because Republicans have a two seat majority there, that's a deadlocked vote. So then to get him onto the floor, you'd have to, you know, basically have a floor fight to, like, pull him out of committee and go against the committee, which then puts people like Susan Collins, who's running for, you know, in a competitive seat in Maine, in a tough spot because it's now like, are you going to, you know, go against the Republican on the Banking Committee so that you can fuel this corrupt prosecution of the Fed chair? Like, so that put somebody like a Collins in a very difficult situation. Or even Ricketts in Nebraska who's facing Osborne.

[Krystal Ball]

And too, by the way, also many of these senators are very tied into Wall street that is not happy about these moves. So they're at odds between Trump's desires and the desires of their money.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. Right. This is one of those places where the Wall street wing of the Republican Party is like, bro, what are you doing? And, yeah, I'm with you in the sense that I've always believed that there should be more democratic control around the Fed. This is not democratic control, though.

[Krystal Ball]

No. This is Trump of a monarch.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And you could imagine, like the Fed has all of these different windows where they lend overnight to, like, if Trump was, you know, Trump does understand lending and interest rates because that's how he, like, has made his career, like just basically playing games with cash flow and interest rates and bankruptcy laws. He could go in there and be like, okay, this bank, let's lend to them at 0.25, these guys at 0.24. How do you get down to 0.20? Well, Trump Organization has a little bitcoin sale going on. Pump some money in there. So it is, it is an argument for certainly not allowing just like the unchecked control by one guy over trillions.

[Krystal Ball]

Of dollars from Trump.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught, the answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get Your podcasts. Every January, we're encouraged to start over. But what if this year is about slowing down and learning how to understand ourselves more deeply? What if this year is about giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help? I'm Mike delarocha, host of Sacred Lessons. This is a podcast for men navigating stress, emotional health, fatherhood, identity, and the unspoken pressures we're taught to carry alone. We talk honestly about mental health, about healing generational wounds, and about learning how to show up with more presence and care. If you want a healthier relationship with yourself and the people you love, then Sacred Lessons is the podcast for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Dolarocha on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike de la Rocha and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

[Krystal Ball]

Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

And I'm Harikunabolu.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a new year, and on the podcast Health Stuff, we're resetting the way.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

We talk about our health, honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed?

[Krystal Ball]

We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that.

[Krystal Ball]

We break down the topics you want.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

To know more about sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us affects our overall health.

[Krystal Ball]

We talk about all the ways to keep your body and mind inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone.

[Krystal Ball]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wanted to get to the very latest with regard to the killing of Renee Goode and the fallout from that. The way the admin is handling it, and one of the ways they're handling it is apparently getting in Twitter fights with Ryan Graham. Let's put B1 up on the screen here. This is the vice president. Now imagine you are vice president of the United States. And no offense, Ryan.

[Ryan Grim]

I agree.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't think that this would be how I'm spending my time personally. So anyway, Ryan said something I think is objectively correct. He said that the vice president was genuinely psychotic, innocent. He shot an unarmed woman twice through a Side window, and then called her an effing bitch, let her bleed out, and fled the scene. So this is in reaction to J.D. vance, you know, completely venerating the ICE agent who called him innocent who killed Renee Goode. And J.D. vance replies, these people, meaning you are incapable of not lying about this. Side window, question mark. You can see the photos of the car with bullet holes. The shots came from the front of the car because that's where the officer was standing when he was hit by the car. He is allowed to discharge his weapon in self defense. Ryan, it's interesting your response.

[Ryan Grim]

It's interesting to go through there and count the number of just falsehoods in.

[Krystal Ball]

It in his claim that you're lying. The number of lies, yes, like holes is a lie.

[Ryan Grim]

There's only one hole, bullets is a lie. Standing in front of the car is a lie. And that he's allowed to discharge his weapon in self defense is generally true, but not in the circumstances that he put himself in. It was self created risk.

[Krystal Ball]

Hit by the car does not appear to be true.

[Ryan Grim]

I would lost count of all the incorrect assertions in that thing. If we can put up the photo next to show if you really don't believe me, you put up B23 here. So this is an image of. This is one of the frames. This is before he has fired his first shot, MJ kindly circled in turn, MJ kindly circled the legs there. So for people who are confused because it's hard because the fact that the other guy's silhouette is like blocking the other dude. This would be open and shut across the spectrum if that other guy wasn't there and you could see him. So now here, this is. That's the smoke from the first shot that hits the. That does hit the front windshield. But notice where his legs were.

[Krystal Ball]

And look where that shot is. Okay. That is the front furthest corner of the windshield, which is not actually what you would hit if you were standing in front of the car.

[Ryan Grim]

Right, right. And so the fact that you can see his legs means that he was not in front of the car. If he was in front of the car, you wouldn't be able to see his legs. Now what, what started this was J.D. vance had said, quote, what the press has done in lying about this innocent law enforcement officer is disgusting. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. And he said that in response to the video that came from the officer's phone, which we noticed early on, we're like, wait a minute, is that a phone in his hand? Like, is he Actually, is that he actually filming. Turns out he was filming. It was leaked to Alpha News, which is a publication that has ties, has close contacts with, like, police unions in Minnesota. And so. And then the fact that there was a coordinated immediate response on the right to say this is. This vindicates him, suggests that they really believe that, like, they put this. They put this footage out. And so let's, let's. We can roll this footage. This is the footage that J.D. vance was responding to. So here he is. He get out of his car here. You can see the dog in the car. He's circling around, and then he comes around the side. And I think this image right here is what the right was seizing on. They're like, look, she's a liberal. Look at her face. You can tell she's a liberal. We told you she was a liberal. She deserved it. So now what he has here, he's gotten her license, so he has no reason to keep her in the scene. Keep her at the scene or anything else. He now switches hands. He moves his phone from his right hand to his left hand. So his. Now you see her turn to the right. You see that you saw her. Now he shoots her. And then he calls her an F and B. So you saw her turning the wheel to the right. That means he saw her turning the wheel to the right. His feet are on the side of the car. He then shoots her once through the front windshield, twice through the side window. J.D. vance sees that and just completely lies about what's in it.

[Krystal Ball]

They seem to. I think you're correct that the real thing that they find to be vindicating here is that these are liberal lesbian women.

[Ryan Grim]

Right?

[Krystal Ball]

And so for, like, case closed for a rabid online movement like the New Right Online edgelords, the fact that they look like they're liberal and they're lesbians means they deserved it.

[Ryan Grim]

Right?

[Krystal Ball]

And that is the real. I think that is the primary point of the video. And you've got, you know, the one woman, her wife, Renee's wife, who's there sassing the officer, basically fat shaming him.

[Ryan Grim]

And did they bleep out her saying that she was a veteran or something?

[Krystal Ball]

I don't know. And I think that's worth mentioning too, is like this. We have no way of knowing if this was edited in any way also to make this as favorable as possible for him. But then the other thing that they seized on is, you know, at the end when he fires the shots, the phone kind of goes. And they act like that's Definitive that he gets hit, even though the video does not show that at all. And in fact, we have much clearer videos. We showed one on the show on Friday in New York Times did an analysis. Wall Street Journal did an analysis that found, no, he actually wasn't even grazed by the car. He was to the side of the car. He was not hit by the car. But because the phone kind of like goes crazy in that moment, they, oh, he got hit. I saw some. Oh, he got hit. And he got hit hard. This proves that conclusively. It's like, it literally doesn't. And it makes you feel like you're going crazy when you watch these videos. And it is so clear what is going on here. Like, she was trying to leave. Now, you may say she shouldn't have done that. There's also. It's also very clear she was receiving contradictory orders at that point, so it was impossible for her to comply. So in any case, you could say she didn't do the right thing by trying to leave the scene. Does that justify her getting shot in the face three times? You know, we've seen now multiple videos of protesters who position themselves in front of ICE vehicles, including. You brought this up on the show. Or actually Emily brought it up and then you were challenging her on it. Kat Abogazella, who's a congressional candidate in Chicago, where they're trying to prosecute her because she was part of a group that was trying to stand in front of an ICE vehicle and they're getting pushed by that ICE vehicle. Okay, so by this logic, was her life in danger? Was she justified to, you know, if she had a weapon, pull out and shoot the ICE agent driving the car in the face? Of course not. Like anyone would look at that and say, that's absolutely insane. Not to mention it wouldn't if, like, it wouldn't even solve the problem because the car would then keep going. Right now you have what I saw one law enforcement, you know, I think retired law enforcement agents said, then you have an unguided missile. Then that creates other safety. Imagine there's children playing this. Imagine there's other people around. And you have now this car careening with the dead person at the wheel. So, you know, the whole thing and the approach to it, the immediate tagging of her as a domestic terrorist and not just the defense of, but the veneration of this officer and the comments from J.D. vance that ICE agents have, like him, have absolute immunity. You know, we are already seeing them sort of taking and running with that. I mean, the Number of videos I've seen of them just randomly assaulting people. We had another shooting in Portland. We still don't know the details of that. Two people were shot there. The government stories already not adding up with regards to the details that have come out there. So you know, the willingness to just completely deny reality is something that is very hard for me to grapple with.

[Ryan Grim]

It is. It's very tough. And Kristi Noem has really led the way in that with her initial press conference where she basically said implied that he was dragged by the car like she said.

[Krystal Ball]

Just before we play this clip, she said one of the vehicles, the ICE vehicles became stuck and ensnared in the snow. No sign of that. In any of the videos we've seen, law enforcement were attempting to push out this vehicle. Have you seen any of that? No, we've seen no video of that. When a mob of agitators that were harassing them all day, again we know she had just dropped her kid off at preschool or at at school. Began blocking them in, shouting at them and impeding law enforcement operations. ICE officers and agents approached the vehicle of the individual in question who was blocking the officers. We saw her wave them by, by the way roadway they could have gone by and with her vehicle and she'd been stock impeding their work. All throughout the day, ICE agents repeatedly ordered her to get out of the car and to stop obstructing law enforcement. She refused to obey their commands. She then proceeded to weaponize vehicle and she attempted to run a law enforcement officer over. That's what she had said. And let's go ahead and play. So Jake Tapper, just real quick before.

[Ryan Grim]

You go to that because there's this debate about whether or not she was quote unquote stalking them which doesn't change anything about whether or not it's justified in shooting her.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

The shooting was at 9:35am and we know for sure they dropped the kid off at school. I don't know exactly when school started. Anybody who is watching this either has kids in school or has gone to school themselves. It's not that much before 9:35. Like there's no even. It's one of these early starting schools at like 7:50 or something like that. That at most would give them 90 minutes to be following them around. But that doesn't remotely appear to be the case. Yes, it looks like a couple of minutes like this was like this was activism of opportunity. They're like coming home from dropping the kid off and they see this is the street.

[Krystal Ball]

They live blocks away.

[Ryan Grim]

And so they're like, let's get out. And like, let's, let's protest this. Like, so this is not like some, like, antifa train situation where they're like been stalking them all day long. Again, 9:35am is when this is happening. So, yeah. So anyway, so Kristi Noem again on Jake Tapper's show. Why did you not wait for an investigation before making your comments?

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, everything that I've said has been proven to be factual and the truth. This administration wants to operate in transparency. I have the responsibility as the Secretary of Homeland Security to know this information as soon as possible. Had just been in Minneapolis the day before, had already had conversations with officers on the ground and supervisors and knew the facts and decided that the department and the people of this country deserve to know the truth of the situation of what had unfolded in Minneapolis.

[Ryan Grim]

With all due respect, Secretary, the first thing you said was, quote, what happened was our ICE officers were out in an enforcement action. They got stuck in the snow because of the adverse weather that is in Minneapolis. They were attempting to push out their vehicle and a woman attacked them and those surrounding them and attempted to run them over and ram them with her vehicle. That's not what happened. We all saw what happened.

[Krystal Ball]

It absolutely is what happened. Those officers had been out on enforcement action. A vehicle had been stuck. They had come to help get that vehicle out. That's when this individual started blocking traffic for minutes and minutes.

[Ryan Grim]

And you said that the woman attacked them and surrounded them and attempted to run them over and ram them with.

[Krystal Ball]

Her vehicle, blocked the road for a long time and was yelling at them and impeding a federal law enforcement investigation.

[Ryan Grim]

She should have responded. I'm not so sure I agree with your police work there. It's so weird having a Fargo character as part of this whole thing. Like, what happened to the whole Northwest.

[Krystal Ball]

Nice thing or the like, not with the puppy killer.

[Ryan Grim]

Like, yeah, this is what happened. Yeah, that is what happened.

[Krystal Ball]

Like, we can see the video.

[Ryan Grim]

We saw it happen.

[Krystal Ball]

You know, I mean, and that's the point is like they, I think, I think it is the message they want to go out to all, to all of America and especially to ICE and CBP and all of these, you know, federal agents and their kitted out gear who've been searched into various cities is that we will make shit up on your behalf. We will completely lie. You can do whatever you want and we will defend it in, like, humiliating and embarrassing way in a way that is completely disconnected from reality. It doesn't matter if there's a video. It doesn't matter if people can see with their own eyes that something completely different happened. We will go to the mat for you, and we will lie on your behalf publicly and repeatedly. And I think, you know, so it's not an accident that this is the way they approach it. The other thing here is Tapper asked, you know, made a comparison between people who actually beat up police officers on January 6th and were pardoned by this president versus this woman. And I think many people, myself included, pointed out, like, okay, so, you know, you guys are very upset about Ashley Babbitt. I think there's some actually justification to be upset about Ashley Pavitt. Would it have been justified for many other protesters, rioters, on January 6th to have been killed by the cops there who were actually getting beaten and violently threatened? Let's go and take a listen to Tapper, make that comparison with her.

[Ryan Grim]

Those are law enforcement officers being physically attacked by this standard, would any of those officers be justified in shooting and killing the people, causing them physical harm?

[Krystal Ball]

Every single situation is going to rely on the situation those officers are on, that they know that when people are putting hands on them, when they are using weapons against them, when they are physically harming them, that they have the authority to arrest those individuals.

[Ryan Grim]

The president hardened every single one of.

[Krystal Ball]

Those people and make sure that they are getting justice for their actions going forward.

[Ryan Grim]

President Trump pardoned every single one of those people.

[Krystal Ball]

And every single one of these investigations comes in the full context of the situation on the ground. And that's one thing that President Trump has been so focused on, is making sure that when we're out there, we don't pick and choose which situations are in which laws are enforced and which ones aren't. Every single one of them is being enforced under the Trump administration. And the clarity of the law stands. And if people don't like it, these members of Congress and elected officials should go change the law and make sure they have that debate and policy.

[Ryan Grim]

I just showed you video of people attacking law enforcement officers. Undisputed proof, undisputed evidence. And I just said President Trump pardoned all of them. And you said that President Trump is enforcing all the laws equally. It's just not true. There's a different standard for law enforcement officials being attacked if they're being attacked by Trump supporters.

[Krystal Ball]

We just saw them, this individual and these instances and these investigations all have to be taken and done and done correctly in context of every situation that is happening on the ground. I mean, the Whole thing is just in group versus out group. And it's deeply un American. The idea is supposed to be, not that we've ever lived up to it, but there's one standard of justice for all, right? They don't accept that. They genuinely don't. And that's where you clued in on the video that they were so excited to share. What they wanted you to get is this is the out group, so they deserved it, right? Whereas January 6th rioters who were. Some of whom were actually assaulting police, well, that's the in group, so it's totally different. And, you know, that's what Trump's pardon schemes, that's what. What that's about as well. Like, oh, well, they're on my team now. So, you know, even though you may have been a former president who actually was involved in narco trafficking, a quote, unquote, narco terrorist, since that's the term of art now, it doesn't matter because you're on our team. So you can do.

[Ryan Grim]

He was a bitcoin bro.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, you can do. Yeah, you're close with Peter Thiel and whatever. So you can do whatever you want. And there is. He has said himself, like he claims the powers of the monarch, that the only limits to his power are his own morality is the quote. So they don't accept the idea that there should be one standard of justice. They want to rip that apart. They want to change that in the minds of the American public. And I think you have to say, with regard to their own base, they have accomplished that. Now, look, everybody is guilty on some level of hypocrisy, right? Of. There's a lot of tribal thinking and partisan brain. There's no doubt about that, that that is, you know, something that happens across the board. This is really something different in terms of the weaponization, the use of the federal government to try to codify and to actualize a reality where all that matters is whether you're on the in group or in the out group. And, you know, I don't think it'll work. I think people are disgusted by it. I'd actually be curious for your take on, you know, how do you. How you think this is going, like, for J.D. vance and his presidential ambitions, but they've convinced themselves that this is a strong place politically to stand. I don't think, you know, it couldn't be further from the truth.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023. When he was finally caught, the answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts. Every January, we're encouraged to start over. But what if this year is about slowing down and learning how to understand ourselves more deeply? What if this year is about giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help? Hello, I'm Mike De La Rocha, host of Sacred Lessons. This is a podcast for men navigating stress, emotional health, fatherhood, identity, and the unspoken pressures we're taught to carry alone. We talk honestly about mental health, about healing generational wounds, and about learning how to show up with more presence and care. If you want a healthier relationship with yourself and the people you love, then Sacred Lessons is the podcast for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike De La Rocha on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike De La Rocha and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

[Krystal Ball]

Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

And I'm Hari Kondabolu.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a new year, and on the podcast Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health, which means.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

Being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that, or am I just depressed?

[Krystal Ball]

We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that.

[Krystal Ball]

We break down the topics. You want to know more about sleep.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

Stress, mental health, and how the world around us affects our overall health.

[Krystal Ball]

We talk about all the ways to keep your body and mind inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone.

[Krystal Ball]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Abolish ice, which used to be, you know, sort of a fringe sentiment is creeping up on a majority position. Yeah. And the overwhelming majority of Americans say that they use way too much force and they're out of control because they can See these videos. And so this is insane, right? I mean, as much criticism as I've had for local police officers, like, you would never see them behaving in this completely, like just routinely in every situation, totally insane and illegal manner.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I think it is JD Vance tying himself unnecessarily, even like, he didn't have to jump in here to the least popular elements of this version of Trumpism or MAGA ism like that. So I think it's extremely damaging to him. I think clearly aoc, who I don't think will be his opponent this time, but maybe 20, 32, more likely. You've seen her kind of say, like, the difference between me and JD Vance is I don't think that the American people should be shot in the face. Like, it's like, how did you wind up positioning yourself in defense of this guy, calling him innocent, saying he should be thanked for what he did when the entire country, like, saw what he did.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So, yeah, I think it's actually extraordinarily dangerous for him politically. Like, I think he. And I think he. I think he recognizes that. I think he's a bit impulsive. He posts too much and now he's out there. And I think that's why he's saying just completely false things, because he wants to establish, at least among the Republican base, a set of facts which are that. I'm putting facts in, quote here. And the facts he wants to establish are this guy was hit by the car and the bullets came through the front windshield. Like, he needs. He wants those quote unquote facts to be established. And then he wants to show you that grainy, sped up video that they've been circulating, which if that's all you saw, you'd be like, oh, it does kind of look like he gets bumped in that footage.

[Krystal Ball]

Right?

[Ryan Grim]

Then if you watch it in the regular speed and you watch it in context with the other video, you're like, oh, he didn't get hit.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, I don't think he really cares about what facts he establishes. I think he wants the white nationalist griper part of the base to forgive him for having an Indian wife. And this is his.

[Ryan Grim]

Which is not gonna work.

[Krystal Ball]

It's not gonna happen. This is his attempt to convince them that he's one of them. He's one of them. That he will go full fascist, that he's all in on the race war, that he will lie on behalf of the regime. Like, he wants to convince them that he is one of the good ones and he is not Actually a race traitor. And, you know, I don't think that is ever going to work out for him. But he doesn't seem to have figured that out. This next piece I think is important. Tom Homan, who it's worth remembering, like actually got the job, got his initial job in government under Obama was where he was really elevated. His initial reaction after this happened was kind of like the normal reaction you might expect where he was like, we should have an investigation, right?

[Ryan Grim]

Not going to say anything about this until the investigation plays out.

[Krystal Ball]

And Tom Homan is a disgusting psychopathic cretin, okay? But even he was like, we should have an investigation and then we'll see. He has since shifted his tone as he's picked up on what this administration, this regime expects him to do. He got asked about this question of do you think she's a domestic terrorist? Let's go ahead and take a listen to this because I think this is an important piece. Is anyone who protests ICE a domestic terrorist in the eyes of the administration?

[Ryan Grim]

I can't say that, you know, it's a case by case basis. But, you know, if you look up definition of terrorism, is there violence, is there a threat of violence based on ideology that wants to change the way the government does what we do? Look at the definition of terrorism.

[Krystal Ball]

But was Secretary Noem correct to label her a domestic terrorist? Mr. Homan?

[Ryan Grim]

Look, we don't know what I don't know if Secretary Noem knows. What I know I can tell you is what they did is illegal. And if you look up a definition of terrorism, it certainly could fall within that definition. If you look at definition.

[Krystal Ball]

But you don't have evidence.

[Ryan Grim]

Pardon?

[Krystal Ball]

You don't have evidence that she's a domestic terrorist.

[Ryan Grim]

I don't know what secretary has that. I don't. I'm not going to judge what the Secretary says. But if you look up the definition of terrorism, it certainly can fall within that.

[Krystal Ball]

So Ryan, he says if you look up the definition, and true enough, if you look up the definition as offered by this government, he's probably right. And he says something else that's like she has an ideology that wants to change how we do what we do. Isn't. I mean, aren't we allowed to have an opinion about how the government. But in their opinion, they think no. And this is where Ken klippenstein's reporting about NSPM7 comes in. They genuinely want to define any protesters, like anyone who does disagree with how they do what they do. They think that's illegitimate. They think we won the election. We get to do whatever the fuck we want, and you don't get to really say anything. And if you do step out of line in any way, yeah, we think you should be put in this category of domestic terror. So I think in their minds, and according to the definition, which. The definition of terrorism is sort of, like, always fake and made up and extremely political by their definition, they genuinely see her that way.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, they've. Some elements of the administration have called the Democratic Party like domestic terrorists.

[Krystal Ball]

That's right. Yeah, that's exactly right. They don't think that opposition is legitimate. Even the incredibly weak, barely existent opposition offered by the Democratic Party, they find that to be too much.

[Ryan Grim]

And what they have managed to do is create actual opposition. If you've been watching this show, you've noticed over the kind of first year of the Trump administration, and Trump himself even commented on this, he said, wow, I thought there'd be more opposition to me, but the opposition has basically just rolled over. And that was more or less the case. Other than, like, Chris Van Hollen going down to El Salvador and a few, like, cases here and there, the party was just flat on its back, and so were a lot of activist groups. Now, because of them constantly poking this bear, people are actually starting to rise up and put up B7 here. So it's not just that people are now coming out on the streets of Minneapolis and confronting ICE wherever they find themselves. They try to go to the bathroom at Target and they just get yelled at the entire way in and the entire way out. They have lost all legitimacy within the cities where they're trying to operate. And now states, Democratic states, are trying to figure out different ways that they can set themselves up in an adversarial posture to ice. And they're seeing that the polling is against ICE and with opposition to ice. So the Trump administration came in with the administration flat on its back and with public opinion on their side when it came to kind of reversing Biden's immigration policies. And because of Stephen Miller's need for these kinds of images, they have now kind of flipped the entire political table against them.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, well, and I think that point about legitimacy is very important because if you talk to law enforcement officers, I mean, you will not be able to operate effectively. You have to have some consent from the local community. And that's actually what sanctuary city policies are about, is the idea is if there's no trust with local law enforcement, you know, in immigrant communities where you have a lot of mixed status families, where you have a significant number of undocumented immigrants, you're going to have more rampant crime because people are not going to talk to the local cops about what's going on. They're not going to assist in investigations. And so that is part of the rationale. And there's a. You know, there are studies that bear this out. It's a public safety rationale behind sanctuary city policies. But, yeah, I mean, if you go into Minneapolis and everyone there hates your guts and are chasing you around with whistles to alert everyone to you're in the neighborhood and this is what's going on, you're gonna have a lot harder time actually operating. I mean, Obama earned his moniker to Porter in chief, did it in a much. I mean, I don't support it. I think he did also things that were cruel, although not anything approaching this level of just like mass thugs, jackbooted thugs in the street, insanity with the largest law enforcement budget of anywhere of any time. But he was very efficient in what he was. He was actually much more effective in particular at getting the, quote, unquote, worst. The worst, which is what they're supposed to be going after, because they actually put investigatory resources towards focusing and prosecutorial resources towards focusing on criminals first and foremost and prioritizing them. So the goal here is not actually to sweep up the most number of immigrants possible. The goal is this show of force, and not just to scare immigrants, to scare anyone who would oppose this government. That's what this is actually about. It's, you know, immigration is obviously part of it, and those are the people who are most in the sights of these mass thugs in the streets and of this administration in general. But, you know, when they're recording videos, all this surveillance, there's new reporting out about mass surveillance systems. Also, in the context of this immigration sweep, that is not just targeted at immigrants. It's certainly not just targeted at undocumented immigrants. This is about all of us. This is about the way the very quite radical and revolutionary, very negative sense, in my opinion, way that they want this country to be and this country to operate. So when you put together the largest law enforcement agency by budget in history, with now Trump asking for a $1.5 trillion defense budget, I mean, you get the sense of they really want to concentrate taxpayer resources in a police, surveillance and military state, that is the direction that they're pushing things in. And immigration is the pretext for the buildup of that capacity.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And the other way that the federal government could have gone about this is to Say that this may have been a crime and we're going to investigate it. The officers going on leave, they have instead, you know, squarely positioned themselves on the other side. You can put up B8. The Daily Mail reporting that a bunch of masked ICE agents were photographed removing a whole bunch of stuff.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And I don't know if we know if they're ICE or FBI. I think the theory is that this is actually FBI removing a bunch of stuff from Jonathan Ross's house. He appears to have fled with his family. And so is this evidence? Is it just his belongings that he wasn't able to grab? And they're helping him out. But the FBI has now blocked state and local officials from being involved in the investigation at all. And I don't think that they care that it blatantly appears to be a cover up after Everybody from the President down to the vice, everybody involved has already said, no, he's innocent. Like, there's no one. Even if they hadn't done that, I don't think anyone would have confidence that Kash Patel's FBI is gonna do like a straightforward bang up, unbiased job in any of this. But, you know, it's clear what conclusion they have already made. They have no interest in actually gathering the facts. There are enough facts available, I think, to all of us already to see that this was, you know, this was not justified in any way. I mean, he put himself in front of that car, which in and of itself, that officer is called officer created jeopardy. Like you're trained not to do that. And yet not just with him.

[Ryan Grim]

And it strips you of your defense.

[Krystal Ball]

And it strips you of your defense. That's exactly right. Not just with him, but this seems to be a pattern in practice with ICE and with CBP going back years. There's a 2014 article that's circulating now about how they, how they do this, how they put themselves intentionally in danger in order to justify using deadly force.

[Ryan Grim]

Yep. And so the. We put up B9 here. This is, you know, the tensions are continuing to escalate here. You have the guy pointing, you know, first he points this, his like riot control weapon at the, at the person and then pulls a gun out and put. Puts it right in the. Pulls it right in the person's face. Just utterly, utterly provocative in a way that seems designed to kind of increase tensions.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

A decade ago I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught, the answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. Every January, we're encouraged to start over. But what if this year is about slowing down and learning how to understand ourselves more deeply? What if this year is about giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been feeling, holding, and knowing that it's okay to ask for help? I'm Mike De la Rocha, host of Sacred Lessons. This is a podcast for men navigating stress, emotional health, fatherhood, identity, and the unspoken pressures we're taught to carry alone. We talk honestly about mental health, about healing generational wounds, and about learning how to show up with more presence and care. If you want a healthier relationship with yourself and the people you love, then Sacred Lessons is the podcast for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Dollarocha on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike De la Rocha and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

[Krystal Ball]

Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

And I'm Hari Kondabolu.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a new year and on the podcast Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health, which means.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

Being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed?

[Krystal Ball]

We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that.

[Krystal Ball]

We break down the topics you want.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

To know more about sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us affects affects our overall health.

[Krystal Ball]

We talk about all the ways to keep your body and mind inside and out healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone.

[Krystal Ball]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go ahead and turn to some interesting comments from Tim Dillon. And I find what he says noteworthy because obviously he was a supporter of this administration. He is an immigration restrictionist. I listened to this whole thing, by the way. He does his classic sort of both sidesy stuff, but the clips that have gone viral are where he's not backing up the administration in this really at all. Let's go ahead and take a listen to Tim Dillon talking about how he does not think that this officer feared for his life in that moment.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

Now, I don't believe from the angle I'm watching that the federal officer feared for his life. At the speed she's going when she's turning the wheel. I don't believe that the federal officer feared for his life. He could have shot the tires, they could have done other things. This idea that everyone just. They have to just shoot them in the head.

[Krystal Ball]

So he says, I do not believe this officer feared for his life. He goes on to really go after the ICE agents for their lack of training. Now, with this guy, that's no excuse, cuz I think he'd been involved. I saw like 19 years he's been, you know, ICBP, whatever, involved in some way. And again, we'll talk about it on the other side. But in any case, he also goes after the ICE agents for their lack of training and professionalism. Let's say, let's take a listen to that.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

I don't believe the cop was justified in shooting her three times in the face, by the way. I've always believed this, and this is something that I've caught heat for, but I've literally believed it since I'm a kid. I don't believe you should ever shoot someone in the face more than once. I've. No, seriously. I think. I just think it's ridiculous so that they did that and they, you know, the guy. These are. These are not well trained law enforcement people in ice right now. We are taking people that did backyard wrestling. I mean, we are the people that are in ice right now. Or. I mean, this is your cousin who like, was in backyard wrestling. Like, this is tough. This is not the cream of the crop. You know, the guys who kidnapped Maduro, like Delta Force, Navy SEALs, this is not them. This is not the Delta Force Navy SEAL people. This is people that like had. This is people. In their third grade report card, the teacher wrote that has violent tendencies.

[Krystal Ball]

I saw one of the Chapo guys said that this was like a war of the unemployable versus the employed. And I thought that kind of nailed it too. But this guy doesn't have that excuse. And in a sense, I think it's a little bit of a. And Sagar and I, in our very lengthy debate, talk to some about the training as well, which is obviously an issue when you turn loose a bunch of thugs who have watched this sort of stuff and been like, that's what I wanna do. And you give them 47, in honor of our great president, days of training and there's reports coming out saying that many of them can like barely read and write and you just turn them loose and have the vice president say you have absolute immunity. Like that is a problem. That is definitely a problem. But I also think in a sense the training, like the fact that this man has been on the job for years, for like many years. I think in a sense the training is also the problem because clearly again, the way he operated here, it's not just him. It's not just him that's recording with the iPhone, right? There's pressure, both for surveillance reasons and also for content creation reasons to be recording all these interactions and hope that you get on the next viral hype reel. Right? The moving around the front of the vehicle. Now by the time the shots are fired, he's to the side of the vehicle. But walking in front of a vehicle with the engine on is directly contradictory to what any local law enforcer. I mean they have years and years and years, decades of training like data of how it goes and how you're supposed to approach in a situation where you've got a vehicle where the engine is on. And that is contrary to any of those training books. Yet what you see is many this is done. The same maneuver is used in many, many instances where they try to block in the, the vehicle with their body and put themselves into that jeopardy so that they can then justify more aggressive and in this case, deadly tactics. So I don't think the problem was that he didn't know what he was doing. I think he knew exactly what he was doing because you can see in that video, you know, when he switches the camera phone from his right to his left so that he's got his, you know, his trigger finger ready to go. This is someone who actually was very in control and knew exactly what he was doing in that moment, right?

[Ryan Grim]

And he finishes it with F and B and then they block medical care like so. And it's a case where you're where and lawyers who've looked at this said like that also is going to be a huge problem if it ever got in front of a jury. Because if this was, you know, purely self defense, then how do you justify, forget the second and third shots, not, not trying to help her with medical care.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean it's, that's. And that again shows you like, again, the in group, out group distinction. Because none of those guys thought this woman deserved to live. Clearly, none of them. I mean, not just the man who killed her, but none of them thought she was worthy of life because none of them tried to save her life. And they blocked the doctor who was there who wanted to intervene and help. They pointed a gun at him, said, absolutely not. We're gonna let her bleed out. That's what the choice was made.

[Ryan Grim]

And I believe it was on cnn, I saw an interview with a. With a police commander who had said, he's like. For instance, I once had two officers who were. Were shot at by a man, like, who shot directly at them. He missed them. They returned fire. They hit the guy. They immediately ran and got their medical gear and. And rushed to the guy to. That they had just shot.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Who had shot at them. And immediately start delivering attempts to save his life and call in an ambulance. Because at that point, you transition from. He's no longer a threat. You transition back into this protect and serve.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Like, this is. You're. That. This is your job. It's what you're trained to do. To just be, like, sauntering around and like, joking around and then hop into a vehicle and flee. Gives away the game. And did you see the ICE officer busted, going into the porta Potty?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, yeah, we can play. This is. I mean, this is just everything all in one, all at one. Because you've got him slipping, comically, slipping on the ice, like in a Looney Tunes ass kind of way. There's a lot of video of that in Minnesota right now. So he falls down. Okay. They're not sounding their best. And then goes into the port a potty with this detainee while this other agent sits in the car and watches. Ilhan Omar, who. This is in Minneapolis. This is her district. She posted like, can someone please tell me what's going on with this? Because I find this deeply disturbing. And there was another, I believe, ICE agent who was convicted of sexually abusing one of the detainees. These things that we're seeing, this is only just what we can see. Imagine what's happening behind closed doors where the cameras aren't allowed in. And by the way, on that note, they're now trying to block. There's a law that is supposed to require Congressional. Any members of Congress from being able to go and inspect ICE facilities at any time. Don't have to give notice. Kristi Noem just put out some memo saying, no, now you have to give a week's Notice, don't see how that is compliant with the law. There'll probably be a court case over that. But in any case, Ilhan and others showed up at one of these ISIS floors. They wouldn't let them in. So, you know, in direct violation of a law that, you know, Congress passed in response to concerns about exactly these sorts of things.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Omar said, this is deeply alarming. If anyone has more information, please share. Brooklyn center is in my district, and I would love any info you all can provide. Yeah. And when it's bad news, when you're like, oh, have you seen the video of the ICE officers, you know, slipping on the ice? And then like. And you're like, which one? Because then the other one, they slip on the ice and the guy, his gun discharges.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Like, there's. There's no world in which you're following proper gun safety and you fall on your gun discharges. Like, that's just not a thing.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, he almost took down his buddy there.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

That was alongside. There was another instance where they. Again, involved. Involved a vehicle, and they were trying to shoot the person in the vehicle, and he ends up, like, the bullet ricochets and he shoots the. His partner. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, just comically. Comically.

[Ryan Grim]

The ones being caught on video, like, there's somebody just happened to be filming that Porta Potty.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Like what? Like, so we're just getting the very, very tip of the iceberg.

[Krystal Ball]

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. All right, Ryan, you want to tell us what's going on in Iran?

[Ryan Grim]

So moving on to Iran, President Trump on Air Force One was asked about whether or not Iran has crossed. Crossed a red line yet. It's interesting. If we were just talking about a protester being killed in Minneapolis, Trump seems to have more concern for protesters being killed in Iran than he does here in the United States. Setting that hypocrisy aside, let's listen to Trump's back and forth to the press about whether or not he's about to start bombing Iran, I guess, on. In the interests of peace or something. Let's roll this. They called. They called you yesterday.

[Krystal Ball]

Is it so an option?

[Ryan Grim]

Iran called to negotiate Yesterday. Yesterday, the leaders of Iran called.

[Krystal Ball]

They want to negotiate.

[Ryan Grim]

I think they're tired of being beat up by the United States. Iran wants to negotiate. Yes. We may meet with them. I mean, a meeting is being set up, but we may have to act because of what's happening before the meeting. But a meeting is being set up. Iran called. They want to negotiate. And so we know that the foreign minister from Oman recently went to Tehran. There's some reports that he, he, he delivered some type of a message from the United States. Iran is responding, saying they want to get back into the Iran nuclear deal. But obviously, if you go to war against us, that will make those negotiations a little bit more difficult. If we can put up D1. According to the New York Times and other outlets, Trump has been briefed on new options for striking Iran. He has laid out what he has said is a red line, although it's not entirely clear what that red line is. It is if protesters are killed under certain circumstances, but not other circumstances, because some of these protests have veered into not just like riots, but armed attacks on security forces. Ron has said, I think more than 100 members of the security services have been killed. You've seen some, and you're seeing videos of that circulate. Police officer killed and set on fire. A nurse was killed. A firefighter was killed. There are reports of the beheadings of government security services. Meanwhile, you have at least 500 protesters killed at this point, and arguably probably thousands at this point. Like, it's. And Iran has cut the Internet, so it's very difficult to get, to get legitimate information out of there. Lindsey Graham was at an event last night and told people there he had to cut it short because he was very excited that we might go to war that night. Let's roll D2. But the reason I had to cut the speech off a little bit, and it was really very kind of you to do what you were doing. I don't know what. But this might be the night. It's just a matter of time now. Just a matter of time. Why is it just a matter of time? And you know what I'm talking about, don't you? This tyrannical regime needs to end. We need to end this for the good people of Iran and for our own selves and the people of Israel. We need to take this guy down. He needs to leave. Standing up or laying down, I don't care. He needs to go. And if we can pull this off, it'd be biggest change in the Mideast in a thousand years. Hamas, Hezbollah, gone. It's not even clear to me why Lindsey Graham would need to cut it short. Like, is he calling the shots here? Is he, like, picking targets? Like, what is his involvement with this potential bombing? Or does he just need to be in private to enjoy it, needs to.

[Krystal Ball]

Be alone to fully savor the moment?

[Ryan Grim]

Like, the fact that he's still so influential with Trump really undercuts the idea that Trump is not just a.

[Krystal Ball]

There are many things about this that have undercut the idea that Trump is Mr. Peace. I mean, to be honest with you, I think he is worse than the neocons. He's actually worse than the neocons because he has bombed, what, seven countries so far? And any of the, like, at least the neocons felt the need to, like, build up some sort of a case, have some sort of legitimacy with the American people. The full on barbarism and the complete law the jungle might makes. Right. Like, this is actually worse now. And I'm someone who, and I think you were too, probably in the first Trump administration. I was like, Bush is still worse. Like, Bush is still worse than what Trump has been. I can no longer make that case. Like, the resistance libs were right. Their most deranged takes on everything except Russiagate were 100% proven correct. I am sorry for ever criticizing you, you guys. And you know what? All the discussion of his moral temperament and his character, which I also used to sort of roll my eyes and no, you were correct. That actually did. That ended up mattering a lot in terms of the conduct of his presidency. So, yeah, completely vindicated. That first clip we played about where Trump is, like, maybe we'll talk about a deal. I would love to believe that's the case. But we've now had multiple instances where the possibility of diplomacy has been used as a pretext and a cover for a bombing campaign. So you can never, like, this could be yet another Trojan horn. Oh, we're gonna extend the arm. Oh, now we know where all of you are. So we can murder you. You just can't rule any of that out ever. Not to mention in that same clip, he says, well, we might have to take action before we can get to the negotiation table.

[Ryan Grim]

And there's also the thing where he's like, like, okay, yeah, we're doing a lot of war, but we're really only going to do it in our hemisphere. That's what America first means, just doing the war here. So, okay, you thought we were going to be, you know, a more peaceful administration. We're not. But it's just here, promise. And then like three days later, like, oh, and also we're going to bomb Iran.

[Krystal Ball]

Right?

[Ryan Grim]

Which is. I mean, you can, you can pick up a globe if you don't believe me. It's not in our backyard.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, yeah. Right now the Swedes are thinking of getting nukes to Protect themselves from, like, they're in a coalition of Nordic countries. Like, maybe we should get nukes. You should. Everybody should. I mean, that is the logic that we have created around the world. The only people we don't fuck with are the ones who have nuclear weapons. So I guess that's the way that people are increasingly looking at it. And who could possibly blame them for viewing things through that lens? You know, in terms of what actually happens here, I genuinely don't know because Trump doesn't. I think he doesn't want to get into some long protracted. He likes the theater of war. He likes being able to do his mission accomplished moment after the SEAL team or whoever goes in and does their, oh, my God, we kidnapped Maduro. And it was so spectacular and amazing and aren't we the best? And obviously right now, he actually posted that he's the acting president of Venezuela. I don't know if you saw that.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I did see that. Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

So he likes that. But he had enough caution around, you know, putting this Machado in and, like, completely doing the regime change thing, like, that's probably going to require more from me than I really wanna give. And he seems to have that same sense in Iran.

[Ryan Grim]

He said he's like, yeah, that's Reza Pahulevi. This fails, son, for the Shah.

[Krystal Ball]

He doesn't have the juice, doesn't have the support. And he's right. I mean, he's absolutely right. But the Israelis definitely want to. They want a regime change. But, you know, Trita Parsi is correct in saying what they really want is regime destabilization. Like, they don't care if Iran is a failed state. They're happy for Iran state. Yeah, they want it to be a Libya or a Syria or whatever. That's what their goal is. Now, is Trump, is he on board with that goal? We don't know. But it certainly seems like he is being increasingly persuaded by the ego kick that he got out of the Venezuela operation, plus these protests, which I think are helping to convince him that this would be easier than perhaps he thought in the past. So, you know, I don't think there's anything that we could possibly put off the table, especially when, again, mirroring the dynamic with Venezuela, where you have the Miami occupied government with Marco Rubio and others who are South Floridians who are very excited about these possibilities. You have a similar dynamic, obviously, with Mary Madison and people in the administrator Mike Huckabee and people in the administration who are very, very committed to what Israel wants. The, with regard to Iran. And they're just gonna keep pushing and pushing and pushing and cycling through arguments with him until they find one which works. Which is exactly what happened previously with Iran and which is exactly what happened with Venezuela. They kept making different cases to him until they found one that they could use to convince him to effectuate the ends that they wanted.

[Ryan Grim]

And I don't even know what this one is. What's the argument? He did a 12 day war. They wanted more than 12 days. Although they were getting pounded by, you know, pretty badly. But they still would have, you know, gone a little further. But what is, like, what even is the argument like? I haven't, I think as a member of the public, I haven't even like received like, why are, why are we gonna bomb them this time?

[Krystal Ball]

Right. Because initially he had said in his meeting with Netanyahu if they went back to building nuclear weapons. Right, which that would be. But he, yeah, they, I mean, we haven't received even any fake reports about that. Well, that's probably coming soon. Stay tuned for that. But in any case, that's sort of been pushed to the side now. It's supposedly about like the rights and dignity of the protesters. I mean, does anyone really believe that Trump cares about like the, you know, aspirational human rights of the Iranian protesters when obviously doesn't give a shit about that with American protesters. But now since he put this red line down, now it's just about ego. It's like they're embarrassing you. You know, you made this line in the sand. You can't be like Obama where he had his red line and then they walked all over him. Like you said, this thing, you've got to stand strong, I think, I mean, that's as far as I can tell because I don't really see any sort of any other affirmative case being made for why this is in our interest at all.

[Ryan Grim]

And isn't a bombing campaign more likely to just end the protests? That's the other thing I don't connect how coming in with you bomb a bunch of military installations or something and that's gonna somehow further the protest. I don't know. I guess anything's possible. Meanwhile, Iran has said, put up D3 here, that if the US strikes Iran, that they, that they consider US targets throughout the Middle east, including bases in, in Iraq, which are, which are quite vulnerable to Iranian attacks, as well as any Israeli targets, that those are legitimate targets. And that's that, that's how, that's how they will respond. We put up and then covering these protests is extraordinarily difficult. There's probably no arena where there's more disinformation and fake videos thrown out there. Trita Parsi has talked about this. It's like some is trickling out. There are a few Starlink. Starlink was mostly successfully taken down actually, which is fascinating development and is freaking out Musk investors. It seems like Russia and Iran found a kill switch for it. Some Starlinks are still operative and have been able to get some videos of massacres out. Some Iranians have left and gone to say Dubai or elsewhere and have brought videos with them. One of those, we can put up D5 here actually, and then we'll go back to. Go back to D4. D5. This is footage being played and we blurred this out. But these are basically. There's 250 files here. Somebody smuggled this out, likely was smuggled out. And it's basically evidence of about 2 of at least 250 people getting killed. And then each file kind of goes through somebody else where and families are being asked to come to come identify and receive their loved ones. And like I said, we could be talking about many thousands of dead at this point. Meanwhile in Los Angeles, we can put up this post here. D4. A U Haul Truck drove through a group of protesters who were supporting the protests against the Iranian regime. The imagery on the U Haul is suggestive of the possibility that it is an MEK aligned action. MEK is this bizarre kind of anti regime cult that is also hostile to the Shah and that has weird connections to the US security establishment and was based in Iraq and backed by the CIA at various times. Like it's like it's a very. Just look up the mek. It's a very odd organization that has no base of support inside Iran and would do something and insane like this.

[Krystal Ball]

Like terror attacks previously. Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

They were doing their whole like we've turned over a new leaf thing.

[Ryan Grim]

But if you did like, I don't know if this member got the memo, if it was, if this was an MEK linked attack. But this is the kind of thing that MEK would be associated with.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And these were, you know, the, I think the protest, the flavor was like pro monarchist, you know, more in Baptist.

[Ryan Grim]

The pro Shah.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, the Shah's son and you know, in support of him, et cetera. So in any case, yeah, you have very difficult situation and what's going on on the ground. I saw Dr. Parsi also tweeting and it might have even been in that tweet that anecdotally, what he's hearing is that some of the lesson that was taken from the previous protests, which were largely peaceful, was that they failed because they were peaceful, that there wasn't a violent cost associated with it. And that's part of why you're seeing this more violent approach from the protesters this time. But again, it's very hard to know what exactly is going on, how widespread they are. There's no doubt that the Iranian regime is deeply unpopular. I don't think there's any question about that. And part of that is certainly the repression. These protests were initially sparked by the currency collapse, triggered largely by our sanctions and our aggressive approach towards them. We've trashed their economy. Youth unemployment is just sky high. It's an incredibly dim situation for people economically on the ground. And so it's no surprise that the country would be a powder keg. And it's also no surprise that you would have actors in the US And Israel who want to take advantage of those legitimate grievances to pursue their own ideological ends.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, and Israel brags about how well organized Mossad is inside Iran and that.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, they've showed that off, what a.

[Ryan Grim]

Massive network of allies and assets they have in there. And there was no immediate. And we'll get to Van Hollen in a moment. There was no immediate kind of triggering event that sparked these protests. It really appears like it was an organized, like, orchestrated, planned out thing, rather than, you know, let's say somebody, you know, a protester or, you know, police kill somebody, or, you know, maybe an.

[Krystal Ball]

ICE agent shooting someone in the face three times, as one example, as a precipitating event, there was none of that.

[Ryan Grim]

It was just like, all of a sudden, there's protests. Yeah. And you have Israel. And Israel was in the weeks leading up to this saying, we're going to war against them again. And so they've basically, you know, taken a lot of credit for this.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. A new year doesn't ask us to become someone new. It invites us back home to ourselves. I'm Mike Dellarocha, host of Sacred Lessons, a space for men to pause, reflect and heal. This year, we're talking honestly about mental health, relationships and the patterns we're ready to release. If you're looking for clarity, connection and healthier ways, ways to show up in your life, Sacred Lessons is here for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Delaroach on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Grim]

Hola, I'm Jorge Ramos. This week on the Moment, we take a look at Venezuela's uncertain future in a conversation with two people who have directly advised US Presidents, Juan Gonzalez during the Obama and Biden administrations.

[Josh Zieman / Hari Kondabolu (depending on segment)]

We're really good at invading countries, we're very good at bad at nation building.

[Ryan Grim]

And Carlosillo during Trump's two terms. I can guarantee you that nobody in the Trump administration likes Del Rodriguez. Listen to the Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola ramos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.