11/7/24: Biden World Blame Game, Bernie Shreds Dems For Abandoning Working Class

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Episode: 11/7/24: Biden World Blame Game, Bernie Shreds Dems For Abandoning Working Class
Release Date: November 7, 2024
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

---

Episode Overview

In this episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosts Kimberly Guilfoyle and David Sirota delve deep into the aftermath of the recent Democratic Party turmoil following President Joe Biden's exit from the presidential race. The discussion centers around internal conflicts within the Democratic Party, critiques of Biden's administration, and Bernie Sanders' vehement criticism of the party's abandonment of the working class. The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the structural challenges facing the Democrats, the influence of party elites, and the prospects for the party's future.

---

1. Internal Democratic Party Conflicts

George Clooney's Role in Biden's Exit

Kimberly Guilfoyle opens the discussion by addressing the backlash against George Clooney for his perceived role in pressuring Joe Biden to withdraw from the presidential race.

• Guilfoyle (02:16): "Apparently George Clooney is facing a backlash from demoralized Democrats for demanding that Joe Biden quit the presidential race."

Impact on the Election Outcome

David Sirota challenges the notion that Biden's withdrawal was beneficial for the Democrats, arguing that it may have exacerbated their electoral defeat.

• Sirota (02:36): "If they stuck with Joe Biden, they would've lost New Mexico and the popular vote by like 10 million votes, not the current 5 million votes."

Alternative Scenarios Without Biden's Exit

Guilfoyle explores a hypothetical scenario where Biden remains in the race, suggesting that it might have provided clarity on the party's deeper issues rather than masking them.

• Guilfoyle (02:53): "In an alternative universe where Joe Biden just stays in, it would not have been evident that there's a deeper fundamental underlying issue here."

---

2. Critique of Biden’s Administration

Biden's Leadership and Policy Selling

Both hosts criticize Biden's effectiveness in communicating and selling his administration's policies, attributing part of the electoral loss to his inability to connect with voters.

• Sirota (04:50): "Joe Biden is an unambiguous failure. Jimmy Carter was more of a successful president than you were, dude."

Comparison with Past Presidents

Sirota draws unfavorable comparisons between Biden and former presidents like Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush, highlighting perceived deficiencies in Biden's leadership and policy execution.

• Sirota (06:03): "Not since George W. Bush have we suffered so deeply as a country because of one man's narcissism."

---

3. Bernie Sanders’ Criticism of the Democratic Party

Abandonment of the Working Class

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Bernie Sanders' open letter criticizing the Democratic Party for forsaking the working class, leading to their own political downfall.

• Sirota (19:55): "Bernie Sanders writes, 'It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people should find that the working class has abandoned them.'"

Structural Alignment with Elites

Krystal Ball elaborates on Sanders' critique, emphasizing the Democratic Party's entanglement with the donor and corporate classes, which undermines their ability to address working-class grievances effectively.

• Ball (22:59): "If you're trying to both speak to working class voters and appease and enrich the donor class, you're going to either sound incoherent or you're only going to talk about a narrow set of issues."

---

4. The Democratic Party’s Future and Potential Candidates

Missed Opportunities for Leadership

The hosts discuss missed opportunities by potential Democratic leaders like Dean Phillips and Gavin Newsom, suggesting that their reluctance to challenge the party status quo contributed to the current predicament.

• Guilfoyle (12:43): "Gavin Newsom really missed his shot as well. So there's lessons in this."

Challenges for Female Candidates

Guilfoyle highlights the Democratic Party's struggles with nominating strong female candidates, predicting that future female presidents are more likely to emerge from the Republican side due to perceived cultural barriers within the Democrats.

• Guilfoyle (13:36): "I think the first female president will be a Republican. Like a conservative, someone like Sarah Sanders."

---

5. Reactions to External Commentary and Media Perspectives

Ezra Klein and David Brooks on Sanders' Legacy

The episode touches on recent articles by influential commentators like Ezra Klein and David Brooks, who acknowledge Bernie Sanders' insights into the party's failings—an acknowledgment that the hosts find belated and inadequate.

• Ball (34:03): "It's better late than never. If everyone's realizing this now, there's still a future here that we have to fight for."

Media’s Late Recognition of Party Issues

Ball expresses frustration with major media outlets like The New York Times for only recently validating Sanders' criticisms, arguing that such realizations come too late to effect meaningful change.

• Ball (34:03): "How did you arrive at this brilliant revelation that all of us for the last 30 years have been saying? I'm so glad this is such a wonderful realization for you."

---

6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Enduring Structural Problems

The hosts conclude with a somber outlook on the Democratic Party's ability to reform, citing entrenched interests and the influence of the party's donor class as significant barriers.

• Ball (32:44): "There is a financial iron triangle inside the Democratic Party that is structurally aligned against Bernie Sanders and class-based politics."

Hope for Change Amid Defeat

Despite the bleak assessment, there remains a glimmer of hope that the recent electoral defeat might catalyze necessary introspection and change within the party.

• Krystal Ball (33:29): "We're about to see whether that iron triangle can withstand even a shellacking like that happened in an electoral shellacking that so obviously proves the Democrats have a massive political problem."

---

Notable Quotes

• Kimberly Guilfoyle (02:16): "George Clooney is facing a backlash from demoralized Democrats for demanding that Joe Biden quit the presidential race."

• David Sirota (02:36): "If they stuck with Joe Biden, they would've lost New Mexico and the popular vote by like 10 million votes, not the current 5 million votes."

• David Sirota (04:50): "Joe Biden is an unambiguous failure. Jimmy Carter was more of a successful president than you were, dude."

• David Sirota (19:55): "Bernie Sanders writes, 'It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people should find that the working class has abandoned them.'"

• Krystal Ball (22:59): "If you're trying to both speak to working class voters and appease and enrich the donor class, you're going to either sound incoherent or you're only going to talk about a narrow set of issues."

• Kimberly Guilfoyle (13:36): "I think the first female president will be a Republican. Like a conservative, someone like Sarah Sanders."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar offers a critical examination of the Democratic Party's internal struggles, the impact of leadership decisions, and the broader implications for the party's alignment with the working class. Through incisive analysis and sharp commentary, Guilfoyle and Sirota highlight the systemic issues that have led to the party's electoral setbacks and question the feasibility of meaningful reform in the near future. Bernie Sanders' outspoken critique serves as a pivotal point in the conversation, underscoring the urgent need for the party to realign with its foundational base to regain political momentum.

Transcript

[Crystal Ball]

It's better over here at&T customers Switching to T Mobile has never been easier. We'll pay off your existing phone and give you a new one free all on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com carrier freedom to switch today.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Pay off up to 650 via virtual.

[Crystal Ball]

Prepaid MasterCard in 15 days.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Free phone up to 830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax qualifying port.

[David Sirota]

And trade in service on go 5G.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Next and credit required.

[David Sirota]

Contact us before canceling entire account to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Continue you build credits, your credit stop.

[David Sirota]

And balance and required finance agreement is due.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Looking for excitement? Chumba Casino is here. Play anytime, play anywhere, play on the train, play at the store, play at home, play when you're bored. Play today for your chance to win and get daily bonuses when you log in. So what are you waiting for? Don't delay. Chumba Casino is free to play. Experience social gameplay like never before. Go to Chumba Casino right now to play hundreds of games including online slots, Bingo, Slingo and more. Live the chumba [e-mail] VGW Group purchase necessary void were prohibited by law. See terms and conditions 18 + this.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Holiday season, surprise everyone on your list with the best gifts tickets to see their favorite artists live. Choose from thousands of concerts and comedy shows including Mariah Carey, Mary J. Blige, Matt Matthews, Metallica, Thomas Rhett, Trans Siberian Orchestra, Sarah Silverman and so many more. Share a memory together or give a gift they'll never forget. Find the most exciting gift for every [e-mail] gifts that's live nation nation.com gifts hey guys, ready or not. 2024 is here and we here at Breaking Points are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election.

[David Sirota]

We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio, add staff, give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, let's get to the show.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

So of course the recriminations have begun within the Democratic Party where they are desperately trying not to learn any of the actually correct lessons about what led to their failures. However, we wanted to go through some of the finger pointing that is going on here. Let's put this up on the screen. Apparently you got a bunch of folks out there who are mad at George Clooney for being part of the charge to push Biden out of the race. We can put this element up on the screen guys. The Daily Beast wrote this up. Apparently George Clooney facing a backlash from demoralized Democrats for demanding that Joe Biden quit the presidential race. And I do wanna say I got the election wrong, but I did predict that there would be some subset of Democrats who were like, you know, geez, if we had just stuck with Joe Biden, then we would have won.

[David Sirota]

If they stuck Joe Biden, they would've lost New Mexico and they would have lost the popular vote by like 10 million votes, not the current 5 million votes that they're currently on. It would have been like a 400 state blowout instead of a 312. Or, sorry, 400 electoral blowout instead of the 312 electoral votes. The whole thing is ridiculous.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

It is ridiculous. And you know the other thing, because I was thinking about this, I was like, okay, so let's think about the alternative universe where Joe Biden just stays in. And in a sense, it would have been less painful for people because they would have just expected to lose, but I think they also then would not have. They would have just blamed the loss just on Joe Biden's aim.

[David Sirota]

Right? That's right.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

And it would not have been evident that, like, no, there's a deeper fundamental underlying issue here that if you all don't reckon with, you are just going to continue to lose from here on out. So you all should still be thanking George Clooney et al, for helping to persuade the party to move Joe Biden out of the race, even though where they. The original sin is, of course. Well, they're not the original sin, but in this particular cycle was just deciding not to have a Democratic primary at all. The terror of democracy is what ultimately leads to this place. And I fully believe if they had actually had a Democratic primary, I think Kamala would have been in it. I think Gavin Newsom would have been in it. I think other people would have jumped in at Gretchen Wimmer, who knows, Pete Buttigieg. And maybe I think it's possible that Kamala comes out of that primary process because just as being the vice president, you have a lot of advantages. I don't think that would have happened, but I think it's possible. But even if that was the case, she would have had more Democratic legitimacy. She would have been more tested. She would have had to improve her skills in adversarial situations, and she would have had an entire primary process to lay out why she would be different from Joe Biden. And so I think Biden is in part to blame, of course, for not sticking by his pledge to be a one term president, or at least leading people to believe that he would be a one term president. But also all the Democratic party elites who circled the wagons and protected this guy from having to face any sort of an adversarial process. Like you need to realize that you all screwed yourselves with that. That was a devastating error on your part.

[David Sirota]

It's so obvious. And what's actually even crazier is the level of pull that these Biden people still have despite their illegitimacy. Can we put the next tweet up there on the screen, please? The Obama staffers blaming Biden. So David Plouffe actually tweeted about how they were starting from behind and how they had an insurmountable problem. And you know Jackie Heinrich, she tweets here, she shows that Obama staffers are trying to plan the blame on Biden for Harris's loss. Biden world said that Pluff was sanctimonious. Asshole. He says, I find this so unproductive. Joe Biden is the President of the United States and one without you. He successfully beat Donald Trump, something he never did. But here's the thing. David Plouffe has now literally crystal deleted his account.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

I was just looking that up.

[David Sirota]

He was forced to delete his entire account from Twitter because of the pylon from all of the Biden war. So it shows you that acknowledging reality even today after this devastating loss by the Democratic Party is still not possible in Biden's Washington. And that actually gives me less faith than ever that they will ever do anything about it. Because it's clear now, like the internal cult behavior and the self reinforcing mechanisms are just two damn strong, you know, I mean even when they forced Biden out, it was, he's the greatest president ever, of course, selfless, God fearing, great Jesus Christ, reincarnate. You know all this and thank you for going with, but it's like, you know, no man, you are hands down, I'm gonna say this of the modern era, other than George W. Bush, I think he's the worst, right? I mean, I don't think he could come away from it. And I'm not talking about just policy level. Like look at what he did, like in terms of his stated goals. His stated goal was never to really do anything for the country. It was just I will save you from Donald Trump.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

That was to end the Trump era.

[David Sirota]

Yeah, that was his. That's it. I've talked about this a million times. The very first model I ever did For Rising was about Joe Biden and how all he ever talked about was defeating Donald Trump and how he never presented any faith, which is kind of crazy in retrospect. And now to sit here on the other side of his now humiliation, and now this loss in the popular vote to Donald Trump. You are an unambiguous failure. Like, honestly, Jimmy Carter was more of a successful president than you were, dude. And a better person. Yeah, not only a better person, but literally a better president in terms of what he was able to do. And even in terms of his loss, like, you could at least say, like, Jimmy won a primary. He also ran on, quote, unquote, like, healing us from the Watergate age. And he was actually primarily successful in that, you know, in terms of Biden, like, the one thing that he set out to do, he failed at dramatically, historically, not to mention all the policy stuff that also went wrong under him. And the one area where we rely on the President of the United States for judgment, he failed on that, too, where he's old. And people who have real faith, like, we know. You know, everybody knows old people, and many of them had great humility and were just like, there's no way that I could be president. There is not possible for me. I need to know that sometimes it's, you know, my time in the sun is up.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Yeah.

[David Sirota]

And that's okay.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Yeah.

[David Sirota]

And he. His narcissism around his family, around himself, led to the place of where we are. And so really, not since George W. Bush have we suffered so deeply as a country because of one man's narcissism. And also not since George W. Bush, as one man's narcissism and frankly, idiocy has doomed his national party to such a historic failure.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

I think that is all correct. I just. I would assign equal amount of blame, though, to the Democratic Party elites who are around him, who protected him from it as well. Because, listen, he's a president, you know, and he's been seeking the presidency for his entire life. No one should be surprised that he's such a narcissist that he's not gonna let go of the brass ring. Like, that's incredibly predictable. And so you had to have people around him who were willing to, you know, go against the party and facilitate a democratic process. And we can put the next element up on the screen from Politico, because even though Plouffe was apparently forced to delete his Twitter account for, you know, barely. Barely criticizing Joe Biden, Biden's word behind the scenes, this is kind of. This is the conversation that is playing out in Democratic elite circles. So this is Politico. They got this guy, Jim Manley, a top aide to former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, to go on the record. He said he shouldn't have run. This is no time to fold punches or be concerned about anyone's feelings. He and his staff have done an enormous amount of damage to this country. And they had a bunch of other quotes, most of them anonymous, from other party officials, consultants, etcetera, who were saying very similar things because it's very obvious at this point. But it's easy in retrospect for them to point fingers. But these are some of the very same people who are in a position to know the level of his decline. And instead of enabling a democratic process by which Democratic base could choose who they wanted to be their standard bearer this time around, instead they circled the wagons and there you go, here we are. And there's no guarantees that another nominee with more time could have succeeded. But they wouldn't have been in a much, much better position if they had gone in that direction.

[David Sirota]

Absolutely. Yeah. And just with all of this, it's just so transparent. Their attempts to rewrite history are gonna be legend for when Biden eventually Fs off to Delaware and to the beach. He'll write his memoirs and they'll be just as ridiculous and hagiographic as Barack Obama's were. But the attempts, I think, and I also wonder whether there may be too much blood on everybody's hands. Cuz it's not just Biden, it's a lot of people in Congress. No, absolutely. So maybe they'll just memory hole the entire thing. They're like, yeah, it was a crazy thing. Donald Trump, we gotta move on. That's one of the favorite pastimes of theirs, is we have to move on.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Remember how mean they were to Dean Phillips?

[David Sirota]

Oh my God. Yeah, I actually, I know you guys.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

All owe him an apology.

[David Sirota]

I still kind of stand by this. At the time when Biden dropped out, I was like, you know Dean, he's kind of like Obama. Cause people don't really remember. A lot of the key Obama lore is that Obama, when he was a nobody, literally nobody even gave a shit what he had to say. I think he was a state senator and there was one guy with a freaking video camera. So thankfully for Obama, Obama gave a speech against the Iraq war. And that was massively influential for all of the young people who caucused for him in Iowa. And for a lot of the early online energy around his campaign. And so, Dean, I mean, we have to give the man credit. He was the first of all of them, actually. A sitting member of Congress who bet the farm. And he's like, biden's too old. We gotta move on. And he tried. So to be honest, I think Dean, like, he's got a case for. I was right and all of you were wrong. And like I said, too, the Democratic mind, the elite mind in particular, like the voters, the base, the msmec, the one credit you do have to give them is they do want to win.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They love.

[David Sirota]

They hate losing. What they actually care about is winning. And so if we correctly can diagnose this as a major Biden problem, I think Dean has a very, very bright future ahead of him.

[Crystal Ball]

I do.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

We'll see. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, because there's. There's also short memories, you know, the Democratic coalition and lots of contenders for the. You know, the happiest people right now in Washington are obviously the Republicans. And then the list of 2028 would be contenders, you know, but not any of the women, because Democrats are never going to nominate a woman. So sorry, Gretchen Webber.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Sorry.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

You should have taken your shot this time, Big Gretch. Yeah, honestly, though, should have taken your shot.

[David Sirota]

There's lessons in this.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Gavin Newsom, should have taken your shot.

[David Sirota]

There are lessons in this world for politicians. Timidity never gets rewarded. Chris Christie absolutely could have been president in 2012. I have no question in my mind. I think he could have won and could have beat Barack Obama. He decided to stay in. He was like, oh, Trump 2016, bridge gate happens and gets his ass blown out by Donald Trump.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

No, he missed his shot.

[David Sirota]

Humiliated.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

And now on NBC, he missed his shot.

[David Sirota]

Gretchen Whitmer, you had a chance. If she was like Joe Biden or Kamala, I'll see you at the convention. I think she would have won. I really do. Not the presidency per se. Maybe she would have lost. I don't know. I can't say any of that after the results. But they would have had a shot. And for Gretchen, like, your time, it will never come again. You're done. This whole TikTok female thing, Good luck. Because the retcon on this is we need the bros back. And a white dude is the. Yeah, I think your call is correct. The first female president will be a Republican. Like a conservative. Yeah, I put my money on somebody like Sarah Sanders. Somebody like that.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Could be. I mean, I just. I do think, like, the problem for Democratic women is that you have to overcome this of, like, they're weak, they're not strong enough, blah, blah, blah, they're too liberal. You know, that's like the image. And so, yeah, I think it will be easier for a Republican woman ultimately to get elected. But, you know, like I said, I think even they won't say this publicly. They'll say the thing about, like, oh, the country is too sexist to elect a woman. But privately, the lesson that will be taken is we just can't nominate a woman ever again. So any, you know, Gretchen Whitmer obviously is the biggest loser on that front. But I also think, I think Gavin Newsom really missed. He was super hot right now. And, you know, the fact that he's from California is gonna be a problem for him. The fact he's not gonna be in office anymore is gonna be a problem for him. Like, I think he missed his shot as well. So there's. But we'll see. We'll see how it all pans out and what the shape of the world is by then. Because if there's one thing we've learned, many things can change.

[David Sirota]

Absolutely.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

All right, let's go ahead and get to David Sirota from Lever News to get his reaction to Bernie Sanders letter in his assessment of what went wrong for Democrats this week.

[Crystal Ball]

It's better over here. ATT customers switching to T Mobile has never been easier. We'll pay off your existing phone and give you a new one free. All on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com carrierfreedom to switch today.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Pay off up to $650 via virtual.

[Crystal Ball]

Prepaid MasterCard in 15 days.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Free phone up to $830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax qualifying port.

[David Sirota]

And trade and service on go 5G.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Next and credit required.

[David Sirota]

Contact us before canceling entire account to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Continue bill credits or credit stop and balance and required. Financ agreement is due. Hey, what's up, guys?

[Crystal Ball]

I'm Fred Warner, linebacker for the San Francisco 49ers.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The holidays get really busy for me.

[Crystal Ball]

But I still want to pull up.

[Sagar Enjeti]

To events looking my freshest. Abercrombie's latest drop of party looks is taking me through the season for date.

[Crystal Ball]

Nights, hanging out with the fellas and.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Even New Year's Eve. They have outfits for every occasion. I'm big on sweater polos and trousers with a wool blend coat over top for those really fancy holiday events.

[Crystal Ball]

Abercrombie has suiting options too. Shop Abercrombie for every night out.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Attention parents and grandparents. Are you searching for the perfect gift for your kids this holiday season? Give the gift of adventure that will last all year long. A Guardian Bike the easiest, safest and quickest bikes for kids to learn on Kids are learning to ride in just one day. No training wheels needed. What sets Guardian Bikes apart? Designed especially for stability, they're low to the ground with a wide wheelbase and ultra lightweight frames. Offering superior control and balance, this design gives young riders the ability to learn in just one day without tears or frustration. Guardian Bikes are the only kids bikes designed and assembled in a USA factory, ensuring top notch quality and durability. They were also featured on Shark Tank and are the New York Times Wirecutter Top Kids bike pick for 2024 join the hundreds of thousands of happy families by getting a Guardian Bike today. Their holiday sales have begun offering the biggest deal of the year. Save up to 33% on bikes. No code needed plus get shipping and a free bike lock and pump with your first purchase. After signing up for their newsletter, visit guardianbikes.com to take advantage of these deals and secure your holiday gifts today. Happy riding.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Lucky to be joined this morning by the always insightful David Sirota of Lever News. Great to see you my friend.

[David Sirota]

Good to see you man.

[Crystal Ball]

Good to see you too.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

So in your view, what the hell happened this week?

[Crystal Ball]

Well, I mean, I mean first of all, the Democrats got destroyed. I mean, let's just put that on the table. They got destroyed. It really wasn't close. I think that, look, I think they had a lot of structural challenges beyond just Joe Biden not running and the switch of the candidate late. I think the inflation situation redounded to the incumbent party. I mean those are all baked in obstacles in this election, but I think the party clearly didn't take those obstacles nearly as seriously as they could have. And when you look at the class realignment in the election, I think what you see is the Democrats are perceived as an elite, culturally and economically elite party that is completely out of touch with where the country is and what the country wants. And I think that that was shown by the results. And when you have a party that doesn't seem to be speaking to the material day to day interests of the country and is instead its economic message is basically like everything is okay or everything is look at what we've already done and not sort of channeling the grievance, the legitimate grievance of people in a dystopian economy, then that's what's going to happen. Now I just want to add One thing, when I say a dystopian economy, look, I want to be clear that the macroeconomic numbers are decent and they could be a lot worse. It's the day to day lived reality under the macroeconomic numbers that I think is what we see in the discontent, whether it's inflation, whether it's health care, whether it's housing, the essentially the ability to afford necessities. And it's not like the Republicans are speaking so clearly to those problems either. But you can say this about the Republicans. They are naming villains, they are naming enemies, they are naming, they are diagnosing the problem. Maybe their diagnosis isn't exactly right. The Democrats basically aren't really doing that as a party. And I'll just add one, one, one last thing about that. The thing that people liked about Bernie Sanders rallies is always funny when people, well, why do people like Bernie Sanders rallies in 2016, 2020? My take on that was always that they like to hear at least one politician calling out villains, calling out perpetrators, calling out the specific essentially economic evildoers in the economy. And they like to just hear that. And that's not something the Democratic Party does. And that is something that Donald Trump and the Republicans do. And there are the election results to show you that that's what the pop the public wants.

[David Sirota]

That is interesting. We have a letter from Bernie Sanders. I want to get your reaction to. Let's put it up there on the screen. He says openly, quote, it should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people should find that the working class has abandoned them. Will the big money interest in well paid consultants who control the Democratic Party learn from any real lessons from this disastrous campaign? You were a veteran of the Bernie Sanders campaign, David, and we've talked a lot about, I think over the years about what went wrong also inside the Sanders campaign and really inside of the Sanders movement itself to where it stands. But do you see any avenue and acceptance of this message amongst the Democratic Party today?

[Crystal Ball]

Here's what my fear is. First of all, I think Bernie is 100% right. I mean, he's not saying anything he hasn't said before. And he's exactly right, just as he has been. I think that the problem is, or the fear is that the consultant class of the Democratic Party, the operative class of the Democratic Party, and frankly the pundits and the sort of affiliated Democratic media have an economic and financial incentive not to talk to the working class in the sense that the political class of the Democratic Party is tied to the donor class to the corporate class. And so what I fear, what Bernie Sanders is saying, which is correct, what I fear that it will be, how it will be interpreted is we have to move only culturally, right? We have to go back to Bill Clinton, you know, school uniforms, like the whole cultural triangulation, while continuing to push neoliberal economics. I mean, that was Bill Clinton's innovation, right? I mean, and I put that in quotes, but you know, move culturally to the right while pushing neoliberal economics. And that defines what so called centrism is instead of what centrism was under the sort of the New Deal Democratic Party, which was speak to populist economics. And sometimes you'd have people in different parts of the country, elected officials who were culturally somewhat different from Democrats liberal orthodoxy that has completely flipped. And I think the question is whether the consulting class, the people who make decisions about what the party's brand is, whether they're too essentially tied to the corporate class and the donor class that are at the center of the problem. I guess I'll put it more briefly, which is to say if you're, if you're trying to both speak to working class voters and appease and enrich and satisfy the donor class, you're going to either sound incoherent or you're only going to talk about a narrow set of issues that it doesn't really tap into the real economic grievances of the working class because you're too busy trying to appease the donor class that's creating those economic problems.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

So the pushback that I've gotten within my own household, to my analysis, which is similar to yours, similar to Bernie, is that like y'all screwed up when you killed the Bernie Sanders evolution in the cradle, like when you spent the last 10 years as your, your primary political focus being to crush any semblance of a left populist class first movement. That's where you really screwed up. And that's been ongoing for years and years now. The pushback I get is okay, but look at the Biden administration, like, great on antitrust, great on labor. Bernie Sanders was influential. Ron Klain, Bernie Sanders, you had the whole build back, better effort. They did do some stuff. Kamala ran on price gouging. She wasn't the focus of her paid media like her earned media campaign, but the paid media was overwhelmingly sort of like class warish. And one of the things that I've used to rebut this notion is something I've been talking about for a while, that while the Antitrust and the labor stuff is really important sort of medium to long term. The real story of the Biden administration is the cutting of the social safety net that was erected under Covid. And there was a chartwe can put this up on the screen, guys. This Biden admin shifted from Build Back Better to austerity chart that shows, you know. Yeah. In the beginning parts of the administration look at what all the fight was about. It was about a lot of the sort of Bernie Sanders ish elements of, you know, a social safety net embodied by Build Back Better. And then they shifted in 2022 to just talking about austerity, effectively national debt, deficit, Daily Mentions. The other piece, though, I think is really critical what you were naming, which is that it's one thing to have, as Kamala did, a list of economic policies that are good, that are genuinely good, were genuinely popular, etc. It's another thing to have a story and a narrative about what has gone wrong in the country, who the villains are, who the heroes are, how we're going to fix it, et cetera. And to me, that's really the core of what they're missing and what Bernie Sanders was very authentic and compelling and credible in identifying.

[Crystal Ball]

Look, the Democratic Party does not like to name the villains because the Democratic Party is in a lot of ways.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

In bed with the villains.

[Crystal Ball]

There's a hesitancy to specifically name the villains because the villains are in the House. Right?

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Yeah, that's right.

[Crystal Ball]

They're afraid of that. I think your point about what the Biden administration did, I mean, there's, there's, there's two important points that relate to that, which is one, there is a somewhat unique situation in the sense that Joe Biden's cognitive decline made it much harder for Joe Biden to sell the policies that Joe Biden was doing, sellable policies about the economy. So I think, you know, one thing that's, that's important to remember is that 3/4 of the job of being president is not sitting in the Situation Room making decisions. It's actually selling your policies and telling a story about your policies. And the Democrats, the President was simply not able to do that. So I think it's not a great test case to say, oh, well, you know, he put forward all these, he did these good things on the CFPB at the FTC Department of Labor, and the voters sort of rejected that. No, those policies basically weren't even sold. They weren't even pitched to the public as part of a story, really, of what the White House was doing. The second point, though, is when the American rescue plan passed, that's when Biden's poll numbers were the highest, when there was a creation of a real social safety net, a real investment in the working class. And guess what? Biden was popular. The problem is that then it expired and people got cut off. And so when people get something, realize, like, life can be a little bit better, that the government can actually do something, and then they wake up a year later and it's like, psych. We're just going to rip that away. Guess what? Lots of those people that might have swung over to you in the election, they're not going to be happy. And I think that it's not to say that that's the reason this election happened, but it is to say all of these things kind of pile up. You don't sell your agenda because of the situation in the White House. You've torn away benefits that people liked having and realized they could have, but the government isn't providing that to them. The party's not naming villains. The other guy is naming villains and is promising some kind of change. So guess what? Here we are.

[David Sirota]

Yeah. David, one thing I wanted to get your take on. I'm sure you'll love this. Can we put the. Ezra Klein says that Bernie was right. Let's put this up there on the screen. There's been a lot of discussion here about Joe Rogan, by the way, which is very annoying because it's not about Rogan the man, obviously. It's just about the, like, sphere and what that represents. What that represents. He says Rogan was symbolic of something bigger. There is an alienation that has grown between young men and much of the Democratic Party for years. There has been no real way of talking about masculinity in liberal circles. That didn't attach the word toxic before it. There has been a reveling in growing female strength and a deep critique of male culture. You can have any view you want on the merits, but it had its consequences. Whatever you think of Walls, he's the vice presidential pick, and that's not part of the ticket that people vote for. I'm just curious, you know, you lived through a lot of these fights, and the Rogan one I remember quite well because it was a big schism, I think, online. I remember AOC coming out and denouncing Rogan after Bernie Sanders appearance, when obviously the whole case for him going on was, look, I'm trying to win. I'm trying to reach as many people as possible. So what do you make of this now that the retrospective has proven obviously that correct strategy?

[Crystal Ball]

Well, look, I had hoped after the Bernie Sanders campaign in 2020, I hoped that we were going to win. We didn't. I had hoped that Bernie Sanders would play a role and would become a figure analogous to Barry Goldwater in 1964, as Barry Goldwater was to the Republican Party. Not to say that Bernie Sanders is Barry Goldwater, like on policy, but the story of the Republican Party is essentially Barry Goldwater was the intellectual anchor, the ideological anchor of the Republican Party, a sort of guiding light. And from there came acolytes who later were able to win office. Ronald Reagan as an example. So I had hoped that that's what would happen after 2020, and it really didn' happen because the dynamics of the inside the Democratic Party are fundamentally different than the Republican Party. The Republican Party has become more of a revolutionary party in the sense of there's turnover, there's, there's, there's an internal battle. The Democratic Party really has become much more top down, really much more. In some ways, it's not exactly a cult, but sort of a machine that isn't really a forum for that discontent to birth something new. And so what happened is that Bernie Sanders was essentially laughed at, scoffed at, mocked by the media elites that are aligned with the Democratic Party by sort of the Democratic noise machine. He was brushed to the side. Maybe he's kind of a, you know, pat him on the head. Nice run, Bernie, but not necessarily the ideological figure to inspire acolytes in the future. Maybe that's changing now. Maybe, maybe this, this realization that, hey, Bernie, Bernie's theory of politics was right. Maybe that can bring about something new now. But I've been. We've seen this before. It didn't happen after 2016. I'm not sure it's going to happen now. I'm not sure this party can reform itself. I don't know what it will like. If it didn't happen before, why is it going to happen now? Yeah, but maybe, look, maybe, maybe getting your ass kicked so badly like they did this week, maybe that will shake something, shake out something, I don't know.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

I think it's worth interrogating, though, why the Republican Party was able to be overthrown by the Trumpist movement and why the Democratic Party was totally unwilling and moved heaven and earth and used tactics both legitimate and illegitimate to make sure that they stamped out the Bernie Sanders movement. And it's because fundamentally, the Trump movement is friendly to Capitol, at least any Sort of CEO who's willing to be loyal and friendly and not speak ill of him. He gave them a giant tax cut. They were happy with the stock market performance. They're happy to go back to that. They hate the Biden administration and their attack on their move towards trust busting and embrace of labor, etc. Trump, he did all the union busting and tax cut giving and whatever. So when it came down to it, even though a lot of Wall street and CEO types, they didn't like this chaos, they didn't like his vulgarity, but he didn't really threaten their class interests. Whereas on the Democratic Party you have a lot of similar wealthy, the Mark Cubans of the Democratic Party and those sorts of people whose class interests were actively threatened by the Bernie Sanders movement. And so it created a much more intense backlash and ultimately a much more effective war on that movement. And none of that has changed. Like that landscape is still there. It's not gone away. So that's why I'm, you know, I'm not hopeful that it'll be different this time around.

[Crystal Ball]

Right. And the politicians and the political actors inside the Democratic Party ultimately rely on that donor class for the resources to buy second beach houses and mansions. And I'm not sort of.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

You're not joking. That's real. Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

Like, I mean, and, and for super PACs and for AD spending. Right. So there is a financial iron triangle there inside the dent Democratic Party that is structurally aligned against Bernie Sanders and a class based politics. And we're about to see whether that iron triangle can withstand even a shellacking like that happened in electoral shellacking that so obviously proves the Democrats have a massive political problem.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

So the last thing I just had to get to your quick reaction to is David Brooks is even now like, huh, maybe that Bernie Sanders was on to something. Can we put this element up on the screen? Cuz this is just incredible. You wrote this in the pages of the New York Times. Maybe the Democrats have to embrace a Bernie Sanders style disruption, something that will make people like me feel uncomfortable. And it's like, I'll just let you react to it because I know when I first shared this with you, you had to go and look it up to make sure that this is actually real. Because it's so, so it's so unbelievable from this particular ethnicity.

[Crystal Ball]

I mean, I toggle when I see stuff like this. I toggle between. I'm so glad this is such a wonderful realization for you. You're such a genius. How did you arrive at this Brilliant revelation that all of us for the last 30 years have been saying. Right. I mean I have gray hair on my head and I look 10 years older than I am because I've been saying this kind of thing for 30 years only to be laughed at and scoffed at and vilified and ostracized by the same kind of people as David Brooks essentially. Right. So I toggle between sort of eye rolling but also listen, better late than never, right? Like hey, you're late to the game, you're 30 years late. It's fine. That's what the New York Times does. They show up to a story 30 years late and pretend it's a great revelation. Okay, that's, that's their business model. But like hey, welcome. Right. Like if everyone's realizing this now, you know, we, there's still a future here that we have to fight for. So better late than never.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Yeah, of course. You know, if there were on the off chance.

[Crystal Ball]

Yes.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

That there was a Sanders esque movement that arose from the ashes, David Brooks would be first in line to crush it and stamp it out once again, 100%. David, always great to see you. Always love your insights. Tell people where to support lover news. What you guys don't definitely should be doing, you know, one of the most important, I think independent media outlets that is truly out there with the investigative reporting that you all do which is pretty unmatched across independent media. You guys. And now drop site news both doing a fantastic job.

[Crystal Ball]

Thank you. Everyone can go to Levernews.com and become a subscriber. I would really appreciate that. And I should say if you want to know how we got to this moment, especially the moment of big money politics, go subscribe in your app to Master Plan. It's our podcast. It's about the 50 year history to legalize big money politics corruption.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Yeah, highly recommend. It's truly essential listening to understand how we got to this particular political moment. So once again great to see you David.

[David Sirota]

Good to see you man.

[Crystal Ball]

Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Our pleasure.

[David Sirota]

Thank you guys so much for watching. It's been a really fun week to cover and experience this with all of you. I know.

[Crystal Ball]

Come on, it's better all here ATT customers switching to T mobile has never been easier. We'll pay off your existing phone and give you a new one free. All on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com carrierfreedom to switch today.

[David Sirota]

Pay off up to $650 via virtual.

[Crystal Ball]

Prepaid MasterCard in 15 days.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Free phone up to $830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax, qualifying port.

[David Sirota]

And trade in service on Go 5G next and credit required.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits.

[David Sirota]

Your credit stop and balance and required finance agreement is due.

[Crystal Ball]

Hey, what's up? I'm Jared Goff, quarterback for the Detroit Lions. The holidays get busy, but I still want to pull up to events looking put together. Abercrombie's latest drop of party looks is taking me through the season for date nights, hanging with the guys and even New Year's Eve. They have outfits for every occasion. I'm big on sweater, polos and trousers with a wool blend coat over top for those really fancy holiday events. Abercrombie has suiting options too. Shop Abercrombie for every night out.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Attention parents and grandparents. Are you searching for the perfect gift for your kids this holiday season? Give the gift of adventures that will last all year long. A Guardian Bike the easiest, safest and quickest bikes for kids to learn on Kids are learning to ride in just one day. No training wheels needed. What sets Guardian Bikes apart? Designed especially for stability, they're low to the ground with a wide wheelbase and ultra lightweight frames. Offering superior control and balance, this design gives young riders the ability to learn in just one day without tears or frustration. Guardian Bikes are the only kids bikes designed and assembled in a USA factory, ensuring top notch quality and durability. They were also featured on Shark Tank and are the New York Times Wirecutter Top Kids bike pick for 2024. Join the hundreds of thousands of happy families by getting a Guardian Bike today. Their holiday sales have begun offering the biggest deal of the year. Save up to 33% on bikes. No code needed. Plus get free shipping and a free bike lock and pump with your first purchase after signing up for their newsletter. Visit guardianbikes.com to take advantage of these deals and secure your holiday gifts today. Happy riding.

[David Sirota]

It's fun even when you lose, you know? Come on, you gotta be. You're a good sport about it. It's all right.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[David Sirota]

The best.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

I'm not gonna lie about my emotional state.

[David Sirota]

The best is yet to come, Crystal. That's what Kimberly Guilfoyle told us. And she was right. The best is yet to come. For Breaking points at least. So thank you guys. We love you and if anything breaks over the weekend, we'll see you. Otherwise, we'll see you on Monday.

[Crystal Ball]

Wow.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What is this place?

[Crystal Ball]

Welcome to Cloud 9.

[Sagar Enjeti]

How exactly did I get here? You're a Toyota Crown driver and only Crown drivers ever reach this level of pure bliss.

[Crystal Ball]

The refined but elegant design makes you.

[David Sirota]

Sit up a little straighter.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It gives you a rush of confidence.

[David Sirota]

As soon as you're behind the wheel and a feeling of all eyes on you.

[Crystal Ball]

That's how the Crown transports you here. It's pretty awesome, right?

[Sagar Enjeti]

The captivating Toyota Crown Family Toyota let's go Places looking for excitement. Chumba Casino is here. Play anytime. Play anywhere. Play on the train. Play at the store. Play at home. Play when you're bored. Play today for your chance to win and get daily bonuses when you log in. So what are you waiting for? Don't delay. Chumba Casino is free to play. Experience social gameplay like never before. Go to Chumba Casino right now to play hundreds of of games, including online slots, Bingo, Slingo and more. Live the chumba [e-mail] VGW Group no purchase necessary void were prohibited by law. See terms and conditions 18 + this.

[Kimberly Guilfoyle]

Holiday season, surprise everyone on your list with the best gifts. Tickets to see their favorite artists live. Choose from thousands of concerts and comedy shows, including Mariah Carey, Mary J. Blige, Matt Matthews, Metallica, Thomas Rhett, Trans Siberian Orchestra, Sarah Silverman, and so many more. Share a memory together or the gift they'll never forget. Find the most exciting gift for every [e-mail] gifts that's livenation.com gifts.