Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode: 12/10/25: Trump Bends Knee To China, NYT Demands War, Jon Stewart Rips Trump, Trump Gives Economy A+, Dem Landslides
Date: December 10, 2025
Hosts: Krystal Ball & Saagar Enjeti
Podcast: Breaking Points (iHeartPodcasts)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the latest political fires: Donald Trump's shifting foreign policy as revealed in a new Politico interview, the New York Times’ hawkish stance on China, Jon Stewart's satirical take on Venezuela, the Trump Administration's take on the economy, and stunning Democratic overperformances in recent elections. The hosts analyze each development, question the narratives from both the establishment and Trump, and discuss political maneuvers in upcoming Congressional and Senate races.

Main Segments & Key Insights

1. Trump's Shifting Foreign Policy: NATO, Ukraine, and China

Timestamps: 05:22 – 20:36

Trump’s Interview Highlights

• Trump’s Politico interview spawned news cycles for contradictory statements on the economy, NATO, and Ukraine.
• On Ukraine: Trump adopts ambiguous positions; when asked if he'd walk away, he said, “No, it's not correct, but it's not exactly wrong. We have to, you know, they have to play ball.” (06:52)
• On NATO and Europe: Trump claims, “NATO calls me Daddy” (05:53) but also criticizes European leaders as weak and Europe's decay.

Analysis

• Trump’s position is “schizophrenic” (07:17), shifting between deriding European partners and boasting influence.
• Saagar: Reports of Ukrainian forced conscription highlight the brutal state of the conflict and raise questions about continued US funding:

  “To give Ukraine a whole lot of money so they can fund the forcible grabbing of men and then putting a gun in their hands and sending them to the front against their will. That can't be the right side.” (09:50)

• Krystal notes the war’s corruption:

  “Tons of funds…have been propped up by its European neighbors, by the United States…turning into just a graft for elites of the well connected.” (10:31)

Trump’s National Security Strategy (PDF)

• The new strategy is surprisingly dovish toward China, with the US moving away from traditional Western European alliances and floating a “core five” (incl. Russia, India, Japan).
• Hosts point out the contradiction: “He wants to do BRICS, but with us in it. Let us in.” (14:25)

US–Europe Tensions & Economic Fallout

• Saagar: German-led austerity and deindustrialization have left Europe economically weakened, exacerbated by energy dependency post-Russian invasion (15:53-17:02).
• Trump permitting Nvidia chip sales to China is framed as a policy tightrope, sparking debate if it’s strategic or corporate favoritism (17:02–20:36).

2. NYT Demands War: U.S. Military Readiness and China

Timestamps: 22:43 – 29:52

NYT Editorial Breakdown

• The NYT editorial board urges America to be “strong enough to win [a war with China]” and critiques outdated, expensive military procurement.
• Notable NYT quote:

  "We must reform not just the military but also funding processes and our industrial base... America now makes just 17% of all manufactured goods, while China makes almost twice as much." (25:41)

Krystal & Saagar's Reaction

• Saagar: “The part about ‘we shouldn't focus on peace, let's focus on war’—it's like, I don't know, we've been focusing on war pretty hard for 250 years.” (26:04)
• Krystal critiques self-defeating policy cycles: “We’ll still be making [aircraft carriers] after everything is like— you don’t even need them anymore.” (27:39)
• Saagar notes U.S. spending priorities enrich the donor class instead of providing effective defense, contrasting with China’s cost-efficient technology (28:09).

3. Jon Stewart on Venezuela – Iraq Parallels & America First Logic

Timestamps: 29:52 – 36:02

• Jon Stewart’s Daily Show segment draws satirical but sharp parallels between Iraq and provocative rhetoric towards Venezuela.
• Stewart highlight:

  “You guys have the balls to tell us that the pretext for Iraq was bullshit… and also Venezuela has weapons of mass destruction and we have to stop them.” (30:32)

• Krystal and Saagar highlight Rubio’s “America First” line and the recycling of Cold War and Iraq War justifications (33:02–34:13).

Hosts Note Strategic Shifts

• U.S. midwifing regime change playbooks in Latin America lead to long-term anti-U.S. sentiment and strategic openings for Iran and China (36:02–36:45).
• Trump’s ambiguous stance on targeting cartels in Mexico and Colombia signals reckless unpredictability (38:15-39:49).

4. Trump’s Economic Claims & Tariff Policies: Contradictions and Consequences

Timestamps: 41:58 – 53:48

Trump Praises the Economy—While Calling for Rate Cuts

• Trump’s grade for the economy: “A plus. Yeah. A.” (42:55)
• Yet, he says the Fed must cut interest rates— a contradiction.
• Saagar: “If you are economically literate or not, that's a contradiction. But never mind. Forget it.” (43:04)

Tariff Policy—Debate on Effectiveness

• Trump boasts tariffs will revive manufacturing, but hosts cite data showing manufacturing jobs are collapsing under Trump, after rising under Biden (47:06).
• Tariffs are described as “haphazard” with firms reporting overwhelmingly negative effects (70% negative according to Dallas Fed survey).
• Krystal: “The aggregate picture as of right now, December 2025… is not what the administration would want to see.” (52:59)

Future Predictions

• Saagar theorizes Trump may “tank the economy for a year and then lift the tariffs,” creating an illusion of rebound just before the midterms (52:59–53:34).

Notable Economic Satire

• Krystal and Saagar mock rising costs and the exploitation of dynamic pricing:

  “Basically what Robbie wants is the entire global economy to operate like a Bangkok market for tourists...max price they think they can extract from you. That is a libertarian dream.” (56:12)

5. Dems Overperform: Election Results and Political Outlook

Timestamps: 65:18 – 84:22

Democratic Landslides & GOP Struggles

• Democrats flipped a Miami seat Trump had won by 21 points— a 22-point swing. Similar patterns of Dem overperformance in local races nationally (65:18–67:00).
• Key factors: Collapsing GOP support among youth and Hispanic voters; wealthy, engaged Dem coalition votes heavily in midterms (62:24–63:24).

The Trump Problem for GOP

• Susie Wiles (Trump’s chief political aide) on midterms:

  “We're actually going to turn [midterms] on its head and put him on the ballot… he’s a turnout machine...” (60:18)

• Krystal: “The wisdom of having Trump on the campaign trail is that you’re motivating the Trump coalition, which other candidates have still never figured out how to replicate.” (61:24)

GOP “Pied Piper” Tactics: Jasmine Crockett in Texas

• NRSC used polling and robocalls to push Jasmine Crockett into the Texas Senate race, preferring her as the Democratic nominee.
• Saagar breaks down the engineering:

  “So the NRSC ran a poll… Nobody had been talking about it… They robocalled high propensity Democrats, urged them to call Jasmine Crockett's office…” (73:01–73:49)

Progressive Consolidation in NYC: Brad Lander vs. Dan Goldman

• Brad Lander challenges Dan Goldman for Congress, backed by the left coalition including Bernie Sanders. The left aims to avoid 2022’s vote-splitting that allowed Goldman’s victory (81:25–82:45).
• Saagar: “This is Lander’s to lose.” (82:45)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Trump on NATO: “NATO calls me Daddy.” (05:53)
• Trump on Ukraine: “No, it's not correct, but it's not exactly wrong. We have to… they have to play ball.” (06:52)
• Saagar Enjeti: “To give Ukraine a whole lot of money so they can fund the forcible grabbing of men… That can't be the right side.” (09:50)
• NYT Op-Ed: “America must prepare for the future of war… not just its military, but political processes and the industrial base that supports it.” (23:35)
• Saagar: “We’ve been focusing on war pretty hard…for 250 years. And this is where we are now.” (26:04)
• Jon Stewart: “You guys have the balls to tell us that the pretext for Iraq was bullshit… and also Venezuela has weapons of mass destruction…” (30:32)
• Trump on the economy: “A plus, yeah. A.” (42:55)
• Krystal on tariffs: “70% of firms said they had negative impacts from the tariffs… it’s not meeting their own goals at this point at all.” (52:59)
• Susie Wiles (Trump campaign): “We're going to turn that on its head and put him on the ballot… he's certainly a turnout machine.” (60:18)
• Saagar on GOP strategy: “Democrats have done this Pied Piper type stuff to Republicans, and sometimes it works… Sometimes… it backfires.” (74:13)

Key Takeaways

• Foreign Policy Drift: Trump’s foreign policy is less antagonistic to China, more skeptical of NATO, and is marked by strategic inconsistency—leaving allies and adversaries guessing.
• War Machine Critique: The NYT’s call to arms against China is adapted with skepticism by the hosts, who highlight systemic waste and perverse incentives in the defense industry.
• Domestic Economic Contradictions: Trump’s economic messaging is rife with contradictions—celebrating the “A+” economy while demanding rate cuts and ignoring negative tariff outcomes.
• Dem Political Momentum: Democratic candidates are flipping GOP strongholds in special elections, spurred by shifting coalition dynamics.
• Strategic Candidate Engineering: Both parties are actively manipulating primaries (e.g., GOP boosting Crockett) aiming for favorable general election match-ups.
• Progressive Consolidation: The left is learning from past defeats, consolidating around single candidates to challenge centrist incumbents, as seen with Lander vs. Goldman.

Additional Notes & Upcoming Topics (Teased by Hosts)

• Kamala Harris' political aspirations and profile in the NYT.
• The ongoing economic impacts of Trump's tariff regime.
• More on dynamic pricing, cost-of-living pressures, and political messaging for 2026 midterms.
• The growing “class-based realignment” in American politics, with insights teased from Sam Godalzig’s research report.

This summary distills the episode's debates and data, capturing the skeptical, anti-establishment tone characteristic of Breaking Points, and includes timestamped highlights for listeners seeking specific segments or quotes.